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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Good evening, everyone.

    What's the state of the enquiry into the General Election polling fiasco?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    MikeK said:

    "At this point, dare I mention that pollsters can ill afford an EU referendum in which they predict a better result for the “out” camp than it actually achieves?"

    Nick Sparrow

    Does this mean that to overstate the "in" camp is all part of the political game and doesn't matter, Nick?

    Nick is assuming that the Leave proposition is the "risky" option. Whereas IMHO clinging to a chaotic sclerotic EC is the risky option. 900 years vs 40 years? Do we feel lucky (punks)?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Betting, change is commonly assumed to be riskier than the status quo.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Good evening, everyone.

    What's the state of the enquiry into the General Election polling fiasco?

    Hi Morris, what's the state of your new book, I need something to read in 2016?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    But the NHS could still evolve with broad consent and consensus if it were not made into a political football by the Left and also seen as a shibboleth by the dumbo Right.

    Very true, Mr. Path, and evolve the NHS must (if it is not to collapse). What are the chances of enough people in positions of influence and elsewhere actually having a grown-up debate about how acceptable healthcare can be provided in the future? Bloody small I think, one need only look at your own post up-thread about inferior BUPA hospitals for an example of how difficult it is to even discuss the subject..
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739



    Strangely in all the debates on the NHS, the fact that Beveridge himself contemplated an National Health Insurance scheme (option 2 in his famous report) is often forgotten. The broad idea was of a government run insurance scheme (compulsory) with *some* publicly owned hospitals, but largely leaving the existing hospital system alone...

    Or that this second option was in the 1945 Conservative manifesto.

    The system that is basically run in many European countries which have considerably better clinical outcomes than the UK.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The last sentence from Mr Sparrow is extremely interesting.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. K, hoping that Sir Edric's Temple/Treasure will be released in the first half of 2016.

    It's probable [depending on some external factors] that Kingdom Asunder will be out in the latter half of 2016.

    In the meantime, if you haven't already, do check out Bane of Souls and/or Journey to Altmortis (written under the pen name Thaddeus White and available at Amazon).

    [NB Sir Edric's Temple is currently out, self-published, but you may well be better off waiting for it's re-release in a few months].
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,926
    edited 2015 28

    Sandpit said:

    surbiton said:

    An excellent article from Nick.
    hey wouldn't join....

    The problem is that lots of things you wouldn't organize the same if you were to start from scratch today. NHS, tax system, benefits system.

    But the fear of the change and uncertainty is a very difficult one to overcome e.g. Scottish Independence Referendum.
    If there were no NHS, it would have to created. The idea that people would prefer a health insurance scheme is absolutely barmy. This is not the USA.
    It certainly wouldn't be created in anything like the form it is today. I would hope we would look to Europe and learn from their systems, many of which are far better than our monolithic health system and which have far better health outcomes.
    Far better perhaps but not cheaper. Britain spends less on health than France and Germany, let alone America. See the OECD figures:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
    I would be very happy to see a higher percentage of national income, either private or public, spent on health provision if the basic system was more effective at doing its job. Unfortunately when the system is broken it really doesn't matter how much money you spend. The US - as you point out - is a good example of this.
    The Annual NHS Crisis is a result of demographics and will only end when there is a reduction in demand. I'd start with tax relief at the 40% rate for companies and individuals opting for private health insurance. That would make a much bigger difference than another few billion chucked at the existing system. BUPA would start building more hospitals tomorrow.
    Would you want to be treated by an inferior BUPA hospital? If you have a car accident would you want to go to a BUPA A&E? If you were properly ill and not just fiddling with some bit of a cataract would you go to a BUPA high dependency bed? If your child developed leukaemia just where would you go?
    Where would your wife or daughter go to give birth? 'Babies R Us' BUPA?
    Why do you describe an "inferior" BUPA hospital? Inferior to what?
    My view is that we should take as much pressure as possible off the NHS by encouraging opting out wherever possible. The current system can't cope with demand so move as much demand as possible outside the NHS.
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    LBC presenter ramping up North/South divide argument re the floods. Caller, yes of course, it wouldn't happen in Chipping Norton, etc, etc. Is it the government's fault? Yes, of course it is, they have cut funding, etc, etc.
    Kay Burley is being lauded yet again for getting the PM one extra question, etc, etc.
    All so bloody predictable.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    LBC presenter ramping up North/South divide argument re the floods. Caller, yes of course, it wouldn't happen in Chipping Norton, etc, etc. Is it the government's fault? Yes, of course it is, they have cut funding, etc, etc.
    Kay Burley is being lauded yet again for getting the PM one extra question, etc, etc.
    All so bloody predictable.

    Being predictable doesn't make it any less true.

    It's simply a fact that Northern councils have had their funding cut more than Southern ones.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Lady Bucket, Somerset didn't get much attention a couple of years ago until the Thames Valley got inundated.

    Flood defences might be the only thing able to match the NHS in terms of being a bottomless pit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Danny565 said:

    LBC presenter ramping up North/South divide argument re the floods. Caller, yes of course, it wouldn't happen in Chipping Norton, etc, etc. Is it the government's fault? Yes, of course it is, they have cut funding, etc, etc.
    Kay Burley is being lauded yet again for getting the PM one extra question, etc, etc.
    All so bloody predictable.

    Being predictable doesn't make it any less true.

    It's simply a fact that Northern councils have had their funding cut more than Southern ones.
    What is the stated reason for that? Even if it were pure vindictiveness or simple inattention to the north, that would not be the justification, so I'm curious what is and if it holds up.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    I never realised Cameron had control over unprecedented rainfall..shit..now that is power..follow that Corbyn
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161



    Strangely in all the debates on the NHS, the fact that Beveridge himself contemplated an National Health Insurance scheme (option 2 in his famous report) is often forgotten. The broad idea was of a government run insurance scheme (compulsory) with *some* publicly owned hospitals, but largely leaving the existing hospital system alone...

    Or that this second option was in the 1945 Conservative manifesto.

    The system that is basically run in many European countries which have considerably better clinical outcomes than the UK.
    Health care is definitely an area where we can learn something from our continental neighbours
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    surbiton said:

    An excellent article from Nick.

    I'd be fascinated to know how people would respond to the question: if the UK weren't in the EU, would you vote to join it? I suspect that a significant majority of the UK population would not vote to join the EU as it is currently configured. If so, then the LEAVE campaign has to work out how to get people to ask themelves why they would vote to REMAIN in something they wouldn't join....

    The problem is that lots of things you wouldn't organize the same if you were to start from scratch today. NHS, tax system, benefits system.

    But the fear of the change and uncertainty is a very difficult one to overcome e.g. Scottish Independence Referendum.
    If there were no NHS, it would have to created. The idea that people would prefer a health insurance scheme is absolutely barmy. This is not the USA.
    Surbiton, there are 200+ other countries in the world. What percentage of them have copied our NHS?
    Quite a lot of countries have compulsory deducted money (taxes y any other name) deducted from individuals and companies to pay for health care. .....
    In France there is compulsion in the form of insurance with the govt for instance directing what drugs qualify for use or not and providing a share of funding via taxation. It is a universal service providing health care for every citizen, irrespective of wealth, age or social status. Its called La Sécurité Sociale. France (among many other countries) has a 'National Health Service'.
    Are all the employees in french hospitals employees of one state institution?

    I prefer the French system to the NHS as the patient has choice of hospitals etc.
    You have, in fact a choice of hospitals, consultants etc under the NHS. If you know how to play the system.

    If you simply accept what you are given, you get a completely different standard of care. Sadly.
    Use the NHS "choose & book" on line. Not necessarily faster access but you do have a choice.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited 2015 28
    MikeK said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    What's the state of the enquiry into the General Election polling fiasco?

    Hi Morris, what's the state of your new book, I need something to read in 2016?
    Mr. K., Far be it from me to go against the author's own wishes but if you have not yet read Sir Edric's Temple then I suggest you do so. Its only fault is that it is too short but it is a spiffing romp with a chuckle from just about every page and a good regular dose of genuine belly laughs. It is available from Amazon on Kindle for a mere £2.22 (a stupidly small amount as I have told Mr. Dancer many times) or £6.97 for the paperback (not recommended if you have the choice as, I think, Mr. Dancer actually makes less from it).

    For the rest of us we must continue to wait patiently for Sir Edric's Treasure. Never mind.

    If you want something historical to get your teeth into I would strongly suggest the Accursed Kings series by Maurice Druon. They were written many years ago but have been released recently for the Kindle. Think of the Game of Thrones but actually real history; strangled queens, poisoned kings, dynastic struggles, treasons, stratagems and spoils, along with some hot but tasteful sex and gratuitous violence the series has the lot. Read the Iron King (£2.49 from Amazon) and I bet you will want to read the next book in the sequence.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    rcs1000 said:



    Strangely in all the debates on the NHS, the fact that Beveridge himself contemplated an National Health Insurance scheme (option 2 in his famous report) is often forgotten. The broad idea was of a government run insurance scheme (compulsory) with *some* publicly owned hospitals, but largely leaving the existing hospital system alone...

    Or that this second option was in the 1945 Conservative manifesto.

    The system that is basically run in many European countries which have considerably better clinical outcomes than the UK.
    Health care is definitely an area where we can learn something from our continental neighbours
    You mean there are systems that are not on the verge of collapse every single winter, no matter how much money is poured into them?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Llama, that is indeed the case [the wonder of self-publishing electronically versus in hardback].

    I vaguely recall you recommending that series to me. What period is it set in? Latter half of the 12th century?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    Danny565 said:

    LBC presenter ramping up North/South divide argument re the floods. Caller, yes of course, it wouldn't happen in Chipping Norton, etc, etc. Is it the government's fault? Yes, of course it is, they have cut funding, etc, etc.
    Kay Burley is being lauded yet again for getting the PM one extra question, etc, etc.
    All so bloody predictable.

    Being predictable doesn't make it any less true.

    It's simply a fact that Northern councils have had their funding cut more than Southern ones.
    What about the 13 years of the last Labour Govt. when Labour councils had the good times at the expense of Tory councils? What did they do with all that extra money? Piss it up against a wall on diversity officers is my guess...
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    LBC presenter ramping up North/South divide argument re the floods. Caller, yes of course, it wouldn't happen in Chipping Norton, etc, etc. Is it the government's fault? Yes, of course it is, they have cut funding, etc, etc.
    Kay Burley is being lauded yet again for getting the PM one extra question, etc, etc.
    All so bloody predictable.

    Being predictable doesn't make it any less true.

    It's simply a fact that Northern councils have had their funding cut more than Southern ones.
    What is the stated reason for that? Even if it were pure vindictiveness or simple inattention to the north, that would not be the justification, so I'm curious what is and if it holds up.
    The stated reason was that certain areas started off with higher levels of council spending, and that it was only fair that every area got a more "equal" share.

    Which sounds fair on the face of it, until you consider that the main reason certain areas had higher levels of council spending in the first was precisely because those areas (predominantly in cities and the North) had more poor people and more needs for spending.

    In 2011-2012, Liverpool and Manchester had their estimated revenue spending power reduced by 11% .... at the same time as Surrey's was reduced by just 0.3%.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VweIlgOiCLux1swBWae1p81x-mTwN6boFBWKA_pUMCc/edit?hl=en#gid=0
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Mr. Llama, that is indeed the case [the wonder of self-publishing electronically versus in hardback].

    I vaguely recall you recommending that series to me. What period is it set in? Latter half of the 12th century?

    Mr. Llama, that is indeed the case [the wonder of self-publishing electronically versus in hardback].

    I vaguely recall you recommending that series to me. What period is it set in? Latter half of the 12th century?

    13th IIRC. The foreward to the english re release is actually by George R R Martin who cited it as inspiration, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was one reason for the re releasing.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:



    Strangely in all the debates on the NHS, the fact that Beveridge himself contemplated an National Health Insurance scheme (option 2 in his famous report) is often forgotten. The broad idea was of a government run insurance scheme (compulsory) with *some* publicly owned hospitals, but largely leaving the existing hospital system alone...

    Or that this second option was in the 1945 Conservative manifesto.

    The system that is basically run in many European countries which have considerably better clinical outcomes than the UK.
    Health care is definitely an area where we can learn something from our continental neighbours
    The single (or at least one principal) buyer, multiple supplier is the only rational way to provide universal health coverage in an efficient manner. Of course, allow individuals or corporations or unions to buy additional coverage beyond that provided universally, but for basic health and emergency services, a single buyer makes sense.

    And this cannot be true insurance, as so much of it is non-actuarial and, as the US is finding, even with fines, it is hard to persuade those who need it the least to buy insurance. So, for me even as a small government libertarian, taxation is the only sensible way to fund the universal part of health.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited 2015 28

    I never realised Cameron had control over unprecedented rainfall..shit..now that is power..follow that Corbyn

    Perhaps plans should be drawn up on the assumption the government cannot control rainfall. Just to be on the safe side.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. kle4, good of Martin to do that, and it would undoubtedly help a book's sales.

    Once I've finished the assorted Christmas books I've got, I'll try and remember the series.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    LBC presenter ramping up North/South divide argument re the floods. Caller, yes of course, it wouldn't happen in Chipping Norton, etc, etc. Is it the government's fault? Yes, of course it is, they have cut funding, etc, etc.
    Kay Burley is being lauded yet again for getting the PM one extra question, etc, etc.
    All so bloody predictable.

    Being predictable doesn't make it any less true.

    It's simply a fact that Northern councils have had their funding cut more than Southern ones.
    What is the stated reason for that? Even if it were pure vindictiveness or simple inattention to the north, that would not be the justification, so I'm curious what is and if it holds up.
    It's not vindictiveness.

    There was a formula which worked very well for a long time. Brown changed it radically (sorry, "updated" it) in a way that massively favoured Labour strongholds at the expense of Tory held councils.

    This government readjusted the formula to take it back to one which treated all councils the same regardless of which geographic region they were in.

    So @Danny565 is correct that it's a fact that "Northern councils have had their funding cut more than Southern ones". What he didn't say was that this is because the status quo ante was deliberately biased and unfair.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,151
    Trump ties Pope Francis as second most admired man in the world, Obama first
    http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-ties-pope-francis-poll-409277?rm=eu
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. L, pithy, yet would you maximise flood defences everywhere? It'd cost a fortune, and the savings (from preventing flooding in certain areas) would be eclipsed by the cost of protecting everywhere.

    It's all very well people citing a £1.3bn mooted clean-up bill, but like the occasional person who claims animal research is acceptable but only when it leads to a breakthrough, spending more on flood defences because that costs less than the clean-up is contingent on being able to prophesy where the flooding will occur.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Danny565 said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    LBC presenter ramping up North/South divide argument re the floods. Caller, yes of course, it wouldn't happen in Chipping Norton, etc, etc. Is it the government's fault? Yes, of course it is, they have cut funding, etc, etc.
    Kay Burley is being lauded yet again for getting the PM one extra question, etc, etc.
    All so bloody predictable.

    Being predictable doesn't make it any less true.

    It's simply a fact that Northern councils have had their funding cut more than Southern ones.
    What is the stated reason for that? Even if it were pure vindictiveness or simple inattention to the north, that would not be the justification, so I'm curious what is and if it holds up.
    The stated reason was that certain areas started off with higher levels of council spending, and that it was only fair that every area got a more "equal" share.

    Which sounds fair on the face of it, until you consider that the main reason certain areas had higher levels of council spending in the first was precisely because those areas (predominantly in cities and the North) had more poor people and more needs for spending.

    In 2011-2012, Liverpool and Manchester had their estimated revenue spending power reduced by 11% .... at the same time as Surrey's was reduced by just 0.3%.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VweIlgOiCLux1swBWae1p81x-mTwN6boFBWKA_pUMCc/edit?hl=en#gid=0
    If a certain level of savings are necessary, overall, then it seems inevitable that the majority of them will come from areas of highest expenditure. So I suppose it comes down to if the national benefit of making savings, spread locally, outweighs the difficulty of reducing local expenditure in such a way.

    A very easy judgement for some, no doubt, in both directions.
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659

    Mr. L, pithy, yet would you maximise flood defences everywhere? It'd cost a fortune, and the savings (from preventing flooding in certain areas) would be eclipsed by the cost of protecting everywhere.

    It's all very well people citing a £1.3bn mooted clean-up bill, but like the occasional person who claims animal research is acceptable but only when it leads to a breakthrough, spending more on flood defences because that costs less than the clean-up is contingent on being able to prophesy where the flooding will occur.

    I listened to one of the flood victims (for whom I feel sorry) saying he had been flooded X years ago and again and then now.. Whilst I recognise it may not always be possible to do so, after the first flood I would have moved..

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,151
    Rasmussen Clinton 37% Trump 36%

    Men prefer Trump 41% to 31%, women Clinton 42% to 31%. Under 40s are for Clinton 39% to 27%, senior citizens for Trump 45% to 33%.

    Whites back Trump 41% to 31%, black and other minorities heavily favour Clinton

    GOP nomination

    Trump 29% Cruz 18% Rubio 15%

    Democratic nomination

    Clinton 46% Sanders 30%

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/clinton_vs_trump_still_a_dead_heat



  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited 2015 28
    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:



    Strangely in all the debates on the NHS, the fact that Beveridge himself contemplated an National Health Insurance scheme (option 2 in his famous report) is often forgotten. The broad idea was of a government run insurance scheme (compulsory) with *some* publicly owned hospitals, but largely leaving the existing hospital system alone...

    Or that this second option was in the 1945 Conservative manifesto.

    The system that is basically run in many European countries which have considerably better clinical outcomes than the UK.
    Health care is definitely an area where we can learn something from our continental neighbours
    The single (or at least one principal) buyer, multiple supplier is the only rational way to provide universal health coverage in an efficient manner. Of course, allow individuals or corporations or unions to buy additional coverage beyond that provided universally, but for basic health and emergency services, a single buyer makes sense.

    And this cannot be true insurance, as so much of it is non-actuarial and, as the US is finding, even with fines, it is hard to persuade those who need it the least to buy insurance. So, for me even as a small government libertarian, taxation is the only sensible way to fund the universal part of health.
    I don't think many Tories would disagree with that.

    What they disagree with is the concept of a single government owned and run provider is the most efficient way to deliver optimal healthcare
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Men prefer Trump 41% to 31%, women Clinton 42% to 31%. Under 40s are for Clinton 39% to 27%, senior citizens for Trump 45% to 33%.''

    Is the US like Britain in that older people vote more than the young?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Fish, York floods all the time. Whilst this has been unusually bad, there's also been unusually high rainfall.

    I wonder if in such areas technology might be the way forward (ie floodproof doors, that sort of thing).
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    rcs1000 said:



    Strangely in all the debates on the NHS, the fact that Beveridge himself contemplated an National Health Insurance scheme (option 2 in his famous report) is often forgotten. The broad idea was of a government run insurance scheme (compulsory) with *some* publicly owned hospitals, but largely leaving the existing hospital system alone...

    Or that this second option was in the 1945 Conservative manifesto.

    The system that is basically run in many European countries which have considerably better clinical outcomes than the UK.
    Health care is definitely an area where we can learn something from our continental neighbours
    We are not talking about health care: we are discussing payment models. Maybe that is part of the problem and politicians should pay more attention to better diagnosis and more effective treatments (assuming anyone is even collating figures).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,151
    edited 2015 28
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, that is indeed the case [the wonder of self-publishing electronically versus in hardback].

    I vaguely recall you recommending that series to me. What period is it set in? Latter half of the 12th century?

    Very early 14th Century, Mr. Dancer. The series opens with the final act of suppression of the Templars in 1314 when Jacques De Molay, as the flames lap round him in his execution pyre, calls out a curse on the Pope, the prosecuting lawyer, the King and the King's lineage.

    As historical novels go the series is superbly researched, wonderfully written and the translation from the French has been very well done. I first came upon the series in the 1960s when a French TV adaption was shown on BBC2 (with subtitles), and very racy it was for the period (I am sure nobody senior at the BBC ever watched it - nudity on the BBC in the sixties just was not allowed).

    Interestingly the current Kindle version has a foreword written by the Game of Thrones chap R.R. Martin, in which he not only recommends the series but states that it was a big influence on him.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739

    rcs1000 said:



    Strangely in all the debates on the NHS, the fact that Beveridge himself contemplated an National Health Insurance scheme (option 2 in his famous report) is often forgotten. The broad idea was of a government run insurance scheme (compulsory) with *some* publicly owned hospitals, but largely leaving the existing hospital system alone...

    Or that this second option was in the 1945 Conservative manifesto.

    The system that is basically run in many European countries which have considerably better clinical outcomes than the UK.
    Health care is definitely an area where we can learn something from our continental neighbours
    We are not talking about health care: we are discussing payment models. Maybe that is part of the problem and politicians should pay more attention to better diagnosis and more effective treatments (assuming anyone is even collating figures).
    Er no. We are talking about health care models. At least that is what much of the discussion below has been about.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Llama, ah, that'll be when Sir Roger Mortimer was being getting up to mischief (in England, anyway).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739

    I never realised Cameron had control over unprecedented rainfall..shit..now that is power..follow that Corbyn

    You really are blind to everything that has been discussed on here regarding the floods aren't you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,151
    taffys said:

    ''Men prefer Trump 41% to 31%, women Clinton 42% to 31%. Under 40s are for Clinton 39% to 27%, senior citizens for Trump 45% to 33%.''

    Is the US like Britain in that older people vote more than the young?

    On the whole yes, though less so in general elections than mid-terms. However the middle aged will also likely back Clinton which should still see her home at the moment
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Danny565 said:

    LBC presenter ramping up North/South divide argument re the floods. Caller, yes of course, it wouldn't happen in Chipping Norton, etc, etc. Is it the government's fault? Yes, of course it is, they have cut funding, etc, etc.
    Kay Burley is being lauded yet again for getting the PM one extra question, etc, etc.
    All so bloody predictable.

    Being predictable doesn't make it any less true.

    It's simply a fact that Northern councils have had their funding cut more than Southern ones.
    It had to happen, Mr. 565, due to the imbalances the other way that had been built up under Brown. I remember before the 2010 election the Chairman of East Sussex County Council having a serious moan because the government education grant for his area was about a third of that for Greater Manchester on a per pupil basis despite East Sussex scoring higher on the deprivation index, lower on the median income and having to deal with the extra costs involved in delivering education to a rural area.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739

    Mr. L, pithy, yet would you maximise flood defences everywhere? It'd cost a fortune, and the savings (from preventing flooding in certain areas) would be eclipsed by the cost of protecting everywhere.

    It's all very well people citing a £1.3bn mooted clean-up bill, but like the occasional person who claims animal research is acceptable but only when it leads to a breakthrough, spending more on flood defences because that costs less than the clean-up is contingent on being able to prophesy where the flooding will occur.

    As has been pointed out on here so many times over the last few days. The problem is not flood defences per se. It is the actions of governance at both national and EU level over the past few decades which have exacerbated flooding to the extent that defence is no longer practical.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''However the middle aged will also likely back Clinton which should still see her home at the moment.''

    well, these are the people who experienced government by Billary first time around. They should know what to expect.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    HYUFD said:
    Interesting given his approach so far to his job has been rather liberal. Not exactly the traditional hang and flog 'em Tory approach to justice.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Tyndall, I'm not disputing that.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    RT..ERRRM NO..having lived in Cockermouth,,Workington, totally familiar with Keswick..Lived in Ilkley for over 20 years.and filmed the annual flooding in York and areas for many years..I think I know what a flood looks like...just never realised the PM of the day had control over it all..smart arse
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,151
    Something for the Scots amongst us, 'Who in Scottish History are you?'
    https://www.facebook.com/visithistoricscotland/app/265175253649747/?ref=page_internal
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    A man died on Christmas Day in Germany after he was hit in the head by a flying piece of metal from a condom machine that he and two accomplices blew up in an apparent robbery attempt, police said on Monday.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12071720/Man-dies-after-blowing-up-condom-machine-says-German-police.html

    What can you say. This years Darwin award goes to...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,151
    taffys said:

    ''However the middle aged will also likely back Clinton which should still see her home at the moment.''

    well, these are the people who experienced government by Billary first time around. They should know what to expect.

    If she is sensible she will certainly try and get him out on the campaign trail as much as possible
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,247

    Mr. L, pithy, yet would you maximise flood defences everywhere? It'd cost a fortune, and the savings (from preventing flooding in certain areas) would be eclipsed by the cost of protecting everywhere.

    It's all very well people citing a £1.3bn mooted clean-up bill, but like the occasional person who claims animal research is acceptable but only when it leads to a breakthrough, spending more on flood defences because that costs less than the clean-up is contingent on being able to prophesy where the flooding will occur.

    As has been pointed out on here so many times over the last few days. The problem is not flood defences per se. It is the actions of governance at both national and EU level over the past few decades which have exacerbated flooding to the extent that defence is no longer practical.
    It may have been pointed out on here many times, but I'm not sure I agree that they have 'exacerbated' flooding, at least to any meaningful degree.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,151

    HYUFD said:
    Interesting given his approach so far to his job has been rather liberal. Not exactly the traditional hang and flog 'em Tory approach to justice.
    His approach has been more about making justice more accessible and prison more productive and rehabilitative than pushing lighter sentences, so nothing Tory members are likely to be too against
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739

    RT..ERRRM NO..having lived in Cockermouth,,Workington, totally familiar with Keswick..Lived in Ilkley for over 20 years.and filmed the annual flooding in York and areas for many years..I think I know what a flood looks like...just never realised the PM of the day had control over it all..smart arse

    He doesn't. In fact the biggest issue as far as I can see from the analysis is EU policy. But neither is it simply because we have had a lot of rain. We can mitigate against that but have not done so and over the last few decades have taken actions that actively worsen the outcome of heavy rain. Clearly your arse is not so smart - assuming that is where you keep your brain.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''If she is sensible she will certainly try and get him out on the campaign trail as much as possible''

    Just keep him away from the more impressionable young female supporters, right?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739

    Mr. L, pithy, yet would you maximise flood defences everywhere? It'd cost a fortune, and the savings (from preventing flooding in certain areas) would be eclipsed by the cost of protecting everywhere.

    It's all very well people citing a £1.3bn mooted clean-up bill, but like the occasional person who claims animal research is acceptable but only when it leads to a breakthrough, spending more on flood defences because that costs less than the clean-up is contingent on being able to prophesy where the flooding will occur.

    As has been pointed out on here so many times over the last few days. The problem is not flood defences per se. It is the actions of governance at both national and EU level over the past few decades which have exacerbated flooding to the extent that defence is no longer practical.
    It may have been pointed out on here many times, but I'm not sure I agree that they have 'exacerbated' flooding, at least to any meaningful degree.
    Policies which force farmers to cut down trees if they want grants and which prevent the dredging of rivers. Too damn right they have exacerbated it. Read the articles that have been linked to. They are written by people who actually know something about the flooding and its causes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,151
    taffys said:

    ''If she is sensible she will certainly try and get him out on the campaign trail as much as possible''

    Just keep him away from the more impressionable young female supporters, right?

    I am sure she can turn a blind eye where needed, there marriage is basically a political one now anyway
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, ah, that'll be when Sir Roger Mortimer was being getting up to mischief (in England, anyway).

    Indeed and one of the books (The She Wolf of France) is devoted to how Isabella (daughter of the first accursed King and thus herself accursed) falls in love with Mortimer and ends up murdering her husband, Edward II.

    It really is a great story beautifully and imaginatively told and if anyone is interested why the second hundred years war started then they will find the answer - cock-up, accident, people shuffling for power lower down, lust and confusion. See also the British Empire, which was founded out of just the same drivers, plus of course a natural and admirable desire to keep the Frogs out.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,247

    Mr. L, pithy, yet would you maximise flood defences everywhere? It'd cost a fortune, and the savings (from preventing flooding in certain areas) would be eclipsed by the cost of protecting everywhere.

    It's all very well people citing a £1.3bn mooted clean-up bill, but like the occasional person who claims animal research is acceptable but only when it leads to a breakthrough, spending more on flood defences because that costs less than the clean-up is contingent on being able to prophesy where the flooding will occur.

    As has been pointed out on here so many times over the last few days. The problem is not flood defences per se. It is the actions of governance at both national and EU level over the past few decades which have exacerbated flooding to the extent that defence is no longer practical.
    It may have been pointed out on here many times, but I'm not sure I agree that they have 'exacerbated' flooding, at least to any meaningful degree.
    Policies which force farmers to cut down trees if they want grants and which prevent the dredging of rivers. Too damn right they have exacerbated it. Read the articles that have been linked to. They are written by people who actually know something about the flooding and its causes.
    I could add the old legislation that had drainage channels cut into peat moorland in order to improve drainage. This had an unfortunate side-effect of massively eroding the delicate moorland. That policy has now been reversed and landowners now receive payments to block such channels and promote 'natural' growth on the uplands.

    But they're essentially meaningless against the amount of water that's fallen. It's a help, but a small help. Just look at the pictures from one slipway in the Peak District that have just been broadcast. This is especially true when flood defences in one area can easily make the situation worse in others, both upstream and downstream.

    My view on this is similar to my view on climate change: mitigation is better than trying to prevent any flood anywhere, especially in a country like the UK. Make sure floods don't endanger life, and make it so people can move back into their homes as quickly and as cheaply as possible.

    As an aside, I wonder how unusual this sort of event really is.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    Mr. L, pithy, yet would you maximise flood defences everywhere? It'd cost a fortune, and the savings (from preventing flooding in certain areas) would be eclipsed by the cost of protecting everywhere.

    It's all very well people citing a £1.3bn mooted clean-up bill, but like the occasional person who claims animal research is acceptable but only when it leads to a breakthrough, spending more on flood defences because that costs less than the clean-up is contingent on being able to prophesy where the flooding will occur.

    As has been pointed out on here so many times over the last few days. The problem is not flood defences per se. It is the actions of governance at both national and EU level over the past few decades which have exacerbated flooding to the extent that defence is no longer practical.
    It may have been pointed out on here many times, but I'm not sure I agree that they have 'exacerbated' flooding, at least to any meaningful degree.
    Policies which force farmers to cut down trees if they want grants and which prevent the dredging of rivers. Too damn right they have exacerbated it. Read the articles that have been linked to. They are written by people who actually know something about the flooding and its causes.
    The proximate cause of the floods is higher than normal rainfall. The ultimate cause is the combination of government and EU policies over the last 30 years.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,774
    Norwich City make a winning start under @edballs's leadership, beating David Cameron's Aston Villa 2-0
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    Man United & Chelsea's seasons summed up in that Matic break and shot, lol.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Thanks for the book info, Morris. I will make the necessary arrangments with Amazon.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited 2015 28
    RT My family was flooded out every year for 21 years by the spring tides in Workington..I know that rivers have to be dredged..any policy ,,by any authority, that cancels that is seriously to blame for current problems..so maybe my arse is not too dumb as my statements are all based on personal experience and being there..Have you ever been flooded out..or have you ever helped evacuate the unfortunates who are .. smart arse..
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,754
    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I am sure she can turn a blind eye where needed, there marriage is basically a political one now anyway''

    If the press I've read is correct then Clinton has done much more than that. Some say she has relentlessly pursued those women who tried to accuse and discredit Bill.

  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Is differential non response the point at which the differential front end grip fails?
    :wink:
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,774
    edited 2015 28
    Pulpstar said:

    Man United & Chelsea's seasons summed up in that Matic break and shot, lol.

    The big match is on SS1
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,926

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    Well he can pay his own damn fees then. Can't the custodians of the Rhodes Scolarship find a way to defund him?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Golly. He still had a shotgun handy?
    An 86-year-old man is suspected of shooting dead his 81-year-old wife in front of elderly residents in a seaside care home.

    Rita King was allegedly shot dead in a communal area of the luxury De La Mar home in coastal Essex.

    A man understood to be her husband was being questioned by murder detectives on Monday after the horrifying incident.

    The couple were residents in the home, which specialises in caring for people with dementia.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12071944/Husband-86-suspected-of-shooting-dead-81-year-old-wife-in-care-home.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,754
    Sandpit said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    Well he can pay his own damn fees then. Can't the custodians of the Rhodes Scolarship find a way to defund him?
    Dude has real issues. Perhaps he'd be happier at the University of Brighton or London Met Uni
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What a bloody moron. We may have found the textbook example of the 'seeking to be offended' generation.

    And A European university being eurocentric? Such a crime.

    More seriously, if he was that offended and oppressed on a daily basis, he could not possibly stomach attending such an institution. Therefore, I can only conclude it is an act. One I hope is not given into, because such morons thrive on being told they are right by people giving in to them.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Sandpit said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    Well he can pay his own damn fees then. Can't the custodians of the Rhodes Scolarship find a way to defund him?
    Removing his fees for expressing his views? Neo-colonial oppression right there.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,754
    kle4 said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What a bloody moron. We may have found the textbook example of the 'seeking to be offended' generation.

    And A European university being eurocentric? Such a crime.

    More seriously, if he was that offended and oppressed on a daily basis, he could not possibly stomach attending such an institution. Therefore, I can only conclude it is an act. One I hope is not given into, because such morons thrive on being told they are right by people giving in to them.

    Next he'll be complaining chess should be banned as it is tool of colonial oppression as it gives whites primacy over blacks, by letting white make the first move.

    There's real prejudice/racism etc in the world that needs dealing with, he doesn't have to create issues of racism where none exists.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Seriously, that student is so angry and yet idiotic, it's hard to even get mad about it. If he doesn't want a Eurocentric mindset, intentionally or otherwise, why not attend a non-European university? Does he think universities are required to offer only the views and settings that he would prefer?

    And in typical crybaby fashion, despite his hyberbolic condemnations of all and sundry, moans like a little b*tch about the media's treatment of him once they take a look at his f*-*ing stupid beliefs.

    Ok, maybe I got a little angry.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Black cats spend longer in rescue shelters. Oppression is everywhere.
    kle4 said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What a bloody moron. We may have found the textbook example of the 'seeking to be offended' generation.

    And A European university being eurocentric? Such a crime.

    More seriously, if he was that offended and oppressed on a daily basis, he could not possibly stomach attending such an institution. Therefore, I can only conclude it is an act. One I hope is not given into, because such morons thrive on being told they are right by people giving in to them.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,926
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    Well he can pay his own damn fees then. Can't the custodians of the Rhodes Scolarship find a way to defund him?
    Removing his fees for expressing his views? Neo-colonial oppression right there.
    He has freedom of speech, but no right to have a prestigious funding of a university place if he wishes to denounce the funder of such a place.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    kle4 said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What a bloody moron. We may have found the textbook example of the 'seeking to be offended' generation.

    And A European university being eurocentric? Such a crime.

    More seriously, if he was that offended and oppressed on a daily basis, he could not possibly stomach attending such an institution. Therefore, I can only conclude it is an act. One I hope is not given into, because such morons thrive on being told they are right by people giving in to them.

    Next he'll be complaining chess should be banned as it is tool of colonial oppression as it gives whites primacy over blacks, by letting white make the first move.

    There's real prejudice/racism etc in the world that needs dealing with, he doesn't have to create issues of racism where none exists.
    That's where you are wrong - those issues are hard to solve and take time, whereas getting a university to take down a statue or put up a plaque is much easier. If he wants to be a sexy young revolutionary taking on and beating the establishment, he cannot wait for a real issue to be solved, that could take ages, and he might not succeed, plus it might actually involve inconveniencing himself. This is the only way to be a heroic fighter for the oppressed while not moving out of student lodgings or, you know, actually doing something.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    Well he can pay his own damn fees then. Can't the custodians of the Rhodes Scolarship find a way to defund him?
    Removing his fees for expressing his views? Neo-colonial oppression right there.
    He has freedom of speech, but no right to have a prestigious funding of a university place if he wishes to denounce the funder of such a place.
    No, I know the modern definition of free speech - if you criticise him, and gods forbid if he faces consequences for his speech, you are a racist oppressor or tool of the oppressors.

    That probably comes as a shock to you. I am often shocked by how racist, sexist and other ists I am when such people point out how it must be so.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''He has freedom of speech, but no right to have a prestigious funding of a university place if he wishes to denounce the funder of such a place.''

    The sad thing is that Oxford are clearly listening to stuff like this.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    kle4 said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What a bloody moron. We may have found the textbook example of the 'seeking to be offended' generation.

    And A European university being eurocentric? Such a crime.

    More seriously, if he was that offended and oppressed on a daily basis, he could not possibly stomach attending such an institution. Therefore, I can only conclude it is an act. One I hope is not given into, because such morons thrive on being told they are right by people giving in to them.

    Next he'll be complaining chess should be banned as it is tool of colonial oppression as it gives whites primacy over blacks, by letting white make the first move.

    There's real prejudice/racism etc in the world that needs dealing with, he doesn't have to create issues of racism where none exists.
    Maybe he should take up GO.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Black cats spend longer in rescue shelters. Oppression is everywhere.

    kle4 said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What a bloody moron. We may have found the textbook example of the 'seeking to be offended' generation.

    And A European university being eurocentric? Such a crime.

    More seriously, if he was that offended and oppressed on a daily basis, he could not possibly stomach attending such an institution. Therefore, I can only conclude it is an act. One I hope is not given into, because such morons thrive on being told they are right by people giving in to them.

    Can't even avoid it over a quiet pint.

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/12/26/facebook-suspends-blackcock-inn-pub-over-racist-offensive-language/

    #seeksoffence
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    What on earth?

    Lol > How the Liberal Democrats must use multipotentialism to survive https://t.co/KPW4wgwnYZ
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    What on earth?

    Lol > How the Liberal Democrats must use multipotentialism to survive https://t.co/KPW4wgwnYZ

    Multipotentialism? Sounds analogous to yogic flying or something.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Black cats spend longer in rescue shelters. Oppression is everywhere.

    kle4 said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What a bloody moron. We may have found the textbook example of the 'seeking to be offended' generation.

    And A European university being eurocentric? Such a crime.

    More seriously, if he was that offended and oppressed on a daily basis, he could not possibly stomach attending such an institution. Therefore, I can only conclude it is an act. One I hope is not given into, because such morons thrive on being told they are right by people giving in to them.

    #blackcatsmatter
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The only thing nitwit Ntokozo Qwabe is useful for is a big Scrabble score
    kle4 said:

    Black cats spend longer in rescue shelters. Oppression is everywhere.

    kle4 said:

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What a bloody moron. We may have found the textbook example of the 'seeking to be offended' generation.

    And A European university being eurocentric? Such a crime.

    More seriously, if he was that offended and oppressed on a daily basis, he could not possibly stomach attending such an institution. Therefore, I can only conclude it is an act. One I hope is not given into, because such morons thrive on being told they are right by people giving in to them.

    #blackcatsmatter
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,693
    Mr Qwabe sounds almost as offended, irrational and incensed as a PB commenter reading a Don Brind column
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    EPG said:

    Mr Qwabe sounds almost as offended, irrational and incensed as a PB commenter reading a Don Brind column

    Touche
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820



    Strangely in all the debates on the NHS, the fact that Beveridge himself contemplated an National Health Insurance scheme (option 2 in his famous report) is often forgotten. The broad idea was of a government run insurance scheme (compulsory) with *some* publicly owned hospitals, but largely leaving the existing hospital system alone...

    Or that this second option was in the 1945 Conservative manifesto.

    The system that is basically run in many European countries which have considerably better clinical outcomes than the UK.
    One way to really annoy the left is to point out that a) The conservative party proposed a version of the NHS in their 1945 manifesto and b) agreement for an NHS was by consensus during the war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Willink
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,247
    Off-topic:

    at 20.00 on BBC Four: Royal Institution Christmas Lectures: how to survive in space.

    Might be of interest to some.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Pulpstar said:

    Man United & Chelsea's seasons summed up in that Matic break and shot, lol.

    The big match is on SS1
    Boro seem to have mastered the art of the backs to the wall 1-0 win, which is the only way to get out of the Championship.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,247
    Waaaay off-topic:

    I know this isn't reservoirs betting, but I'm trying to identify the slipway shown here, apparently in the Peak District. But I cannot place it, even on maps:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35191251

    First thought is of either Ladybower or Derwent reservoirs, but it seems wrong to me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 28

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What did I say yesterday, he would be off again about how racist, imperalist, etc etc etc everything is...It doesn't matter what Oxford do, to this guy something will always be highly offensive to him.

    These comments should strengthen Oxford resolve not to give in. If they do, it is obvious what will come next...just campaign after campaign about how every tradition at Oxford is some how deeply offensive and must be banned.

    Unfortunately, I fear they will do.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    O/T

    english cricket = spurs

    buzzing.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Blackboards have become whiteboards, no wonder he's oppressed.

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What did I say yesterday, he would be off again about how racist, imperalist, etc etc etc everything is...It doesn't matter what Oxford do, to this guy something will always be highly offensive to him.

    These comments should strengthen Oxford resolve not to give in. If they do, it is obvious what will come next...just campaign after campaign about how ever tradition at Oxford is some how deeply offensive and must be banned.

    Unfortunately, I fear they will do.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,754

    O/T

    english cricket = spurs

    buzzing.

    Should I take the 11/1 on Spurs winning the title?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 28

    Blackboards have become whiteboards, no wonder he's oppressed.

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What did I say yesterday, he would be off again about how racist, imperalist, etc etc etc everything is...It doesn't matter what Oxford do, to this guy something will always be highly offensive to him.

    These comments should strengthen Oxford resolve not to give in. If they do, it is obvious what will come next...just campaign after campaign about how ever tradition at Oxford is some how deeply offensive and must be banned.

    Unfortunately, I fear they will do.
    He probably believes that Oxford is too Imperialist, because they operate on a different time zone than South Africa....

    The question really arises is how did his moron get into Oxford and on a very famous scholarship to boot.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,754

    Blackboards have become whiteboards, no wonder he's oppressed.

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What did I say yesterday, he would be off again about how racist, imperalist, etc etc etc everything is...It doesn't matter what Oxford do, to this guy something will always be highly offensive to him.

    These comments should strengthen Oxford resolve not to give in. If they do, it is obvious what will come next...just campaign after campaign about how ever tradition at Oxford is some how deeply offensive and must be banned.

    Unfortunately, I fear they will do.
    He probably believes that Oxford is too Imperialist, because they operate on a different time zone than South Africa....

    The question really arises is how did his moron get into Oxford and on a very famous scholar to boot.
    I'm just glad he's not a student at Imperial College
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 28

    Blackboards have become whiteboards, no wonder he's oppressed.

    Omg

    Ntokozo Qwabe claims university is eductaing a generation of futire world leaders with a ‘skewed’ and ‘Eurocentric’ mindset and urges it to ‘atone’ for colonial legacy

    The student leading a campaign to remove a statue of Cecil Rhodes from an Oxford college has turned his fire on the university itself, accusing it of spreading “injustice” around the world by educating future leaders with a “skewed” and “Eurocentric” mindset.

    Ntokozo Qwabe, a Rhodes scholar from South Africa, claimed that students at Oxford endure “systemic racism, patriarchy and other oppressions” on a daily basis.

    The 24-year-old also said that the university’s admissions and staff recruitment systems “perpetrate exclusion” and suggested that even Oxford’s architecture is laid out in a “racist and violent” way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12071900/Student-behind-Cecil-Rhodes-campaign-accuses-Oxford-of-spreading-injustice-around-the-world.html

    What did I say yesterday, he would be off again about how racist, imperalist, etc etc etc everything is...It doesn't matter what Oxford do, to this guy something will always be highly offensive to him.

    These comments should strengthen Oxford resolve not to give in. If they do, it is obvious what will come next...just campaign after campaign about how ever tradition at Oxford is some how deeply offensive and must be banned.

    Unfortunately, I fear they will do.
    He probably believes that Oxford is too Imperialist, because they operate on a different time zone than South Africa....

    The question really arises is how did his moron get into Oxford and on a very famous scholar to boot.
    I'm just glad he's not a student at Imperial College
    I presume he didn't apply there right out of the gate...But I await the campaign demanding it change its name.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    O/T

    english cricket = spurs

    buzzing.

    Well, the way things are going, England will finish the series 5th in the rankings.

    So, yes. England cricket = Spurs...
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476

    O/T

    english cricket = spurs

    buzzing.

    Should I take the 11/1 on Spurs winning the title?
    Speaking as a Spurs fan.
    It depends how much you want to lose.
This discussion has been closed.