We in Scotland – as indeed in Wales and Northern Ireland too – are governed by a coalition that the vast majority of our electorate rejected at the ballot box.
Correctimundo. These countries have moved apart inexorably, and I don't think scots should accept rule from Westminster any more than English people should accept Scottish labour MPs voting for measures they would't dream of implementing in Scotland.
Time to say goodbye. I don't know what's really forced these countries apart, I don;t know why the Scots of today feel so differently to their grandparents and great grandparents. The former don't have LESS democracy, or more privations, than the latter (?). But there it is. I hope you win, and I still think you might.
Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.
Perhaps Labour could call this the "naive" tax - a penalty for those to stupid to forward plan by retaining some savings.
Perhaps you should stick that on a poster with "vote conservative" and add something about "let them eat cake".
You clearly don't remember why the tories elected Cammie as leader in the first place. Ask Theresa May since she at least knew that becoming the nasty party made you unelectable for well over a decade.
I'm not a party member Pork - just a voter - and one that doesn't like metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate - like the vested interests in your post.
*tears of laughter etc.*
So hopelessly out of touch yet so completely oblivious to it.
So according to you the Trussell Trust and their 325 foodbanks, the Child Poverty Action Group, Gingerbread who represent lone parents and the Catholic Church are ALL "vested interests" and "metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate".
You remember when the chumocracy referred to certain right wingers as "mad swivel-eyed loons", who do you think they were talking about?
It is very hard for Charities involved in an area not to become vested interests in that area.
We had the same people and vested interests whining when some benefits went from weekly to monthly
"Poor people can't budget - it's so cruel"
Patronising.
Good luck trying to sell that bullsh*t when this reappears.
MPs could be in line for £10,000 pay rise
Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has reportedly decided that MPs' salaries are lagging behind civil service pay
MPs may receive a pay rise of about £10,000 a year amid reports that the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (Ipsa) has decided that their salaries are lagging behind civil service pay.
John Bercow, the Commons Speaker, is understood to be sympathetic to a pay rise after saying that MPs are paid an "ordinary" amount of money.
MPs are paid £65,738 a year, a figure that was frozen in 2011 for 2012-13. The leaders of the main parties have resisted pay increases on the grounds that it would be wrong for MPs' salaries to increase while public sector workers are experiencing a pay freeze.
But the Speaker is reported to have complained that David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have not been "terribly clever or brave" to resist pay increases. Bercow is understood to have pointed out that the three party leaders have all been supported by private family wealth, according to the Sunday Times.
The main party leaders will have to decide how to respond to the findings of the report, which is due to be published next month. They will all be braced for hostile headlines if they accept what will be seen as a dramatic increase in pay.
A survey released by Ipsa in January found that MPs believed on average they should be paid £86,000 a year. Some thought they should be paid £100,000.
"@JamesKelly - good luck negotiating EU accession"
Thankyou for the moral support, but as you know the UK government's advisers feel that the timetable suggested by the SNP for negotiating continued EU membership is "realistic".
I take it you feel that underrepresentation in the European Parliament is a good thing for Scotland?
Scotland isn't underrepresented, small countires are over represented.
Pro rata Scotland ( Pop 5m/ EU Pop 500m ) should have 1% of the EU Parlt that's 7 or 8 seats.
But Im sure more expenses troughers in Brussels/Strasbourg will be a cure to all that ails you....an increase of 7 (more than double your current number), representing less than 1% of the total will make all the difference in the world.....and no doubt will be nodded through....tho good luck in getting rUK to agree to providing those - increasing the total number of MEPs may require Treaty Change....
"well SNPer in favour of undemocratic structure is hardly a shock."
This is interesting from you, Alan. Would you confirm that you are now in favour of the UK government sacrificing the British national interest in certain areas if they feel it would be in the wider interest of the EU as a whole? Do you, indeed, feel that they have a moral duty to do so?
"tho good luck in getting rUK to agree to providing those"
Thankyou again, but weird though it may seem to you, I'm reasonably optimistic that Scotland will be treated the same as other independent countries of a similar size. And, as you know, the European legislature has two 'chambers', of which the European Parliament is only one. Upon independence, Scotland would gain a voice and a vote in the Council of Ministers for the first time.
Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.
Perhaps Labour could call this the "naive" tax - a penalty for those to stupid to forward plan by retaining some savings.
Perhaps you should stick that on a poster with "vote conservative" and add something about "let them eat cake".
You clearly don't remember why the tories elected Cammie as leader in the first place. Ask Theresa May since she at least knew that becoming the nasty party made you unelectable for well over a decade.
I'm not a party member Pork - just a voter - and one that doesn't like metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate - like the vested interests in your post.
So according to you the Trussell Trust the Child Poverty Action Group, Gingerbread who represent lone parents and the Catholic Church are ALL "vested interests"
I'm sure the Scots would be quite happy to bear the travails of Europe, just as the Irish seem to be. The Irish are amazingly stoical about the whole thing.
Why? because the Irish themselves decided to go into Europe.
Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.
Perhaps Labour could call this the "naive" tax - a penalty for those to stupid to forward plan by retaining some savings.
Perhaps you should stick that on a poster with "vote conservative" and add something about "let them eat cake".
You clearly don't remember why the tories elected Cammie as leader in the first place. Ask Theresa May since she at least knew that becoming the nasty party made you unelectable for well over a decade.
I'm not a party member Pork - just a voter - and one that doesn't like metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate - like the vested interests in your post.
So according to you the Trussell Trust the Child Poverty Action Group, Gingerbread who represent lone parents and the Catholic Church are ALL "vested interests"
yes - without question.
Trying to crank down the lunacy just a touch? Naughty, naughty. You said this.
"well SNPer in favour of undemocratic structure is hardly a shock."
This is interesting from you, Alan. Would you confirm that you are now in favour of the UK government sacrificing the British national interest in certain areas if they feel it would be in the wider interest of the EU as a whole? Do you, indeed, feel that they have a moral duty to do so?
Oh well if it's moral duty shouldn't we first reform the idea that a maltese voter is worth 100 germans ?
Upon independence, Scotland would gain a voice and a vote in the Council of Ministers for the first time.
Its funny. Making one's own choice as a country to enter the European Union is very powerful.
Some countries have endured terrible privations inside the EU, and big democratic deficits, and yet they still want to stay in. I can only assume its because they made the choice themselves.
"More than 150 people have complained to the Attorney-General about the leniency of the 15-month sentence imposed on the BBC broadcaster Stuart Hall, it emerged today...The maximum sentence at the time the offences were committed was mostly two years but some offences carried a potential term of five years. Now the maximum is ten years.
...Last year a record 435 sentences were referred to his office, compared with 377 in 2011 and 342 in 2010. Of those, only 344 were eligible to be considered. He referred 88 of them to the Court of Appeal, resulting in higher sentences in 62 cases, or 76 per cent.
Three judges featured in the list more than once: Judge Joy, who had three cases referred; Judge Jukes, QC, who had two (one of them resulting in an increase) and Judge Pearce-Higgins, QC, who also had two, one resulting in an increase..." http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/law/article3801812.ece
"Oh well if it's moral duty shouldn't we first reform the idea that a maltese voter is worth 100 germans ?"
Not in the eyes of God, Alan. Do you think Britain should pass its permanent UN Security Council seat to the more populous Germany, for example? Or perhaps Britain and France should both cease to be permanent members, and the EU as a whole should take a seat?
"Or maybe they've read the polls and seen the campaign so far."
Maybe, but if so, why on earth would they bet £200,000 at...what was it, 1/5? 1/6? On any rational view of the campaign and the polls (Yes just eight points behind in the latest one), that's crazy.
But surely not as crazy as attampting to shift odds that are already heavily odds-on. I mean, does anyone apart from genuine punters care whether something's priced at 1/6 or 1/10?
It's like in the real world, there's a huge difference between £2bn and £20bn. In political-argument-world, they're both just 'a lot of money'.
"But surely not as crazy as attampting to shift odds that are already heavily odds-on. I mean, does anyone apart from genuine punters care whether something's priced at 1/6 or 1/10?"
The bet itself got publicity, as evidenced by the fact we're talking about it. If you had £200,000 to play with and wanted to make a profit on it, there must be easier and more risk-free ways of doing it than betting at odds of 1/6 on one option in a two-horse race.
Only three years ago Alex Salmond told The Times that:
It is really important, in my view, to be able to say to people how we can change the circumstances and increase revenue as well as decreasing expenditure. It is my job to come up with some answers, along with others. If you jump up and down nihilistically saying ‘dreadful, dreadful, dreadful, cuts, cuts, cuts’ then I would be failing in my duty to the people.
"But surely not as crazy as attampting to shift odds that are already heavily odds-on. I mean, does anyone apart from genuine punters care whether something's priced at 1/6 or 1/10?"
The bet itself got publicity, as evidenced by the fact we're talking about it. If you had £200,000 to play with and wanted to make a profit on it, there must be easier and more risk-free ways of doing it than betting at odds of 1/6 on one option in a two-horse race.
Maybe it was a scottish tory surger? I'm still laughing over the fact that yet another scottish tory has 'outed' herself. We seem to have them all on here now. ;^ )
Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.
Perhaps Labour could call this the "naive" tax - a penalty for those to stupid to forward plan by retaining some savings.
Perhaps you should stick that on a poster with "vote conservative" and add something about "let them eat cake".
You clearly don't remember why the tories elected Cammie as leader in the first place. Ask Theresa May since she at least knew that becoming the nasty party made you unelectable for well over a decade.
I'm not a party member Pork - just a voter - and one that doesn't like metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate - like the vested interests in your post.
So according to you the Trussell Trust the Child Poverty Action Group, Gingerbread who represent lone parents and the Catholic Church are ALL "vested interests"
yes - without question.
I filled in a Guardian "ethics" questionnaire yesterday and was torn between angling all my answers so as to keep them offering holidays in Maldives while raving against holidaying in the Maldives because that is always enjoyable to see especially on CiF and saying no - they shouldn't have any advertising which conflicted with their editorial line which would put them out of business (sooner).
And as a counterpoint to Scottish Tory commentator Alex Massie, here are the thoughts of the new Prime Minister of Australia -
Now Rudd is turning the fear campaign against Abbott: ''It is time for proven national economic leadership … Mr Abbott's alternative economic policy is to copy the British Conservatives - launch a national slash and burn, austerity drive and drive the economy into recession as happened in Britain. A double dip and almost a triple dip recession in the United Kingdom.''
"Oh well if it's moral duty shouldn't we first reform the idea that a maltese voter is worth 100 germans ?"
Not in the eyes of God, Alan. Do you think Britain should pass its permanent UN Security Council seat to the more populous Germany, for example? Or perhaps Britain and France should both cease to be permanent members, and the EU as a whole should take a seat?
the UNSC isn't immutable it needs to change with the world, personally I'd add India, Japan and Brazil to it. At some point both the UK and France will have to make changes.
Election data junkies may be interested in these lists, which rank how the five main parties did in each division or ward in this year's local elections:
And as a counterpoint to Scottish Tory commentator Alex Massie, here are the thoughts of the new Prime Minister of Australia -
Now Rudd is turning the fear campaign against Abbott: ''It is time for proven national economic leadership … Mr Abbott's alternative economic policy is to copy the British Conservatives - launch a national slash and burn, austerity drive and drive the economy into recession as happened in Britain. A double dip and almost a triple dip recession in the United Kingdom.''
"the UNSC isn't immutable it needs to change with the world, personally I'd add India, Japan and Brazil to it. At some point both the UK and France will have to make changes."
Give up their permanent membership, you mean? If so, agreed. (Although the whole concept of permanent, veto-wielding members is a colonial relic that needs to be abandoned.)
They're only a quarter of a century behind us in defenestrating a female PM because her party panicked after dreadful polls.....though one thing has surprised me about Gillard - while Thatcher was heartily loathed (even unto this day) little of it appeared to be sexist - while much of Gillard's loathing is....
"History will regard her as the worst prime minister since Kevin Rudd."
Hmmm. Unfortunately for you, Carlotta, the gender-based hatred of Gillard came from the right. Penny Wong, for example, switched her support from Gillard to Rudd precisely because it would make a Tony Abbott premiership - which she felt would be disastrous for Australian women - less likely.
"I'm still laughing over the fact that yet another scottish tory has 'outed' herself"
Who? When? Where? Is Carlotta predicting a Scottish Tory surge? Crikey, that's brave!
She got very snippy with, Malcolm was it? and proclaimed her scottishness to all. I was quite taken aback I have to say as all these years posting on here I didn't even know we had yet another scottish tory in our midst. No doubt everyone else knew but me.
So nobody from SLAB as far as I can see, and despite the whining that frequently appears about SNP posters having the temerity to speak out, we seem to be 'blessed' with quite a few scottish tories on here. Enough to merit an entire SCON conference almost.
Perhaps they should be referred to as the CyberSCONs? Or better still, the CyberScones.
"I was quite taken aback I have to say as all these years posting on here I didn't even know we had yet another scottish tory in our midst. No doubt everyone else knew but me."
Yes, she mentioned it to me at an early stage, although by the sounds of it she's been away for a very, very long time. Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
"I was quite taken aback I have to say as all these years posting on here I didn't even know we had yet another scottish tory in our midst. No doubt everyone else knew but me."
Yes, she mentioned it to me at an early stage, although by the sounds of it she's been away for a very, very long time.
Hardly a barrier for the scottish tories. She could even be leader in a few years.
They're only a quarter of a century behind us in defenestrating a female PM because her party panicked after dreadful polls.....though one thing has surprised me about Gillard - while Thatcher was heartily loathed (even unto this day) little of it appeared to be sexist - while much of Gillard's loathing is....
"History will regard her as the worst prime minister since Kevin Rudd."
"Really, I have no desire to hear them from leaders of parties who described his organisation as terrorist, who believed that sanctions were wrong, whose jolly young members wore T-shirts demanding he be strung up. Of course, not all Tories were pro-apartheid, but I can already feel the revisionism revving up.
..........The struggle against apartheid was the one thing that unified the left. I came to it accidentally............."
Good article by Suzanne Moore. There is no greater reason to despise the Tory Party in general and Mrs Thatcher and john Major in particular than this. Their 100% support for South Africa and Apatheid made the world feel sick. It was the reason many of us on the left became interested in politics. When Mandela dies I hope the wave of sentiment will unearth things the Tories of the 80's would hope and pray would have been forgotten forever.
They're only a quarter of a century behind us in defenestrating a female PM because her party panicked after dreadful polls.....though one thing has surprised me about Gillard - while Thatcher was heartily loathed (even unto this day) little of it appeared to be sexist - while much of Gillard's loathing is....
"History will regard her as the worst prime minister since Kevin Rudd."
Now they've gone for Rudd anything's possible, Barry Humphries might have been a wiser choice.
It's fair to say the Australian Spectator is not a fan:
"Mr Rudd has espoused so many different positions that he leaves virtually any sober person with the impression that his arguments are always dodgy. Simply put, he lacks deep conviction, gut instinct and will power. That is why he leads no movement, is spokesman for no cause and has no real cheer squad."
"Really, I have no desire to hear them from leaders of parties who described his organisation as terrorist, who believed that sanctions were wrong, whose jolly young members wore T-shirts demanding he be strung up. Of course, not all Tories were pro-apartheid, but I can already feel the revisionism revving up.
..........The struggle against apartheid was the one thing that unified the left. I came to it accidentally............."
Good article by Suzanne Moore. There is no greater reason to despise the Tory Party in general and Mrs Thatcher and john Major in particular than this. Their 100% support for South Africa and Apatheid made the world feel sick. It was the reason many of us on the left became interested in politics. When Mandela dies I hope the wave of sentiment will unearth things the Tories of the 80's would hope and pray would have been forgotten forever.
"Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm."
Exactly. 'Measuring Scottishness' games on PB are practically the intellectual property of the Tory contingent, notably Alanbrooke and Monica, but I don't hear Carlotta complaining about that.
Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Or you? I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm
Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......
I may not have exact recall of the kerfuffle but I'm pretty damn sure you didn't just say "I'm not a fan of the SNP" and then Malcolm jumped in. Perhaps there was a bit more to it than that?
"Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......"
Based on your track record of 'summarising' the views of SNP supporters, Carlotta, I won't exactly faint with amazement if I discover that isn't quite what Malcolm said.
For the sake of context, would you mind telling us when you left Scotland? Or if you don't want to do that, perhaps you could tell us what rough percentage of your life you have spent in Scotland?
"Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......"
Based on your track record of 'summarising' the views of SNP supporters, Carlotta, I won't exactly faint with amazement if I discover that isn't quite what Malcolm said.
For the sake of context, would you mind telling us when you left Scotland? Or if you don't want to do that, perhaps you could tell us what rough percentage of your life you have spent in Scotland?
Come now, a scottish tory is a scottish tory and let's hear no more about it. They are proud and steadfast in their beliefs. Probably.
"Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm."
Exactly. 'Measuring Scottishness' games on PB are practically the intellectual property of the Tory contingent, notably Alanbrooke and Monica, but I don't hear Carlotta complaining about that.
Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Or you? I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm
Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......
I may not have exact recall of the kerfuffle but I'm pretty damn sure you didn't just say "I'm not a fan of the SNP" and then Malcolm jumped in. Perhaps there was a bit more to it than that?
It was a post about the name of the new Forth Crossing - the 'Queensferry Crossing' where I remarked that out of mischievousness it was a slight pity that the 3rd option 'St Margaret's Crossing' had not been picked as we could have many jolly japes deliberately misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it referred to - this set off Malcolm's tirade about me loathing all things Scotland & Scottish....which struck me somewhat of an over-reaction....
There is no greater reason to despise the Tory Party in general and Mrs Thatcher and john Major in particular than this.
Quite Roger. Especially as the the south African prime minister was warned repeatedly during the thatcher era that government along racial lines was unacceptable and Nelson Mandela should be freed.
Who did the warning????.....er........Margaret Thatcher (cough).
"Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm."
Exactly. 'Measuring Scottishness' games on PB are practically the intellectual property of the Tory contingent, notably Alanbrooke and Monica, but I don't hear Carlotta complaining about that.
Don't be silly James I measure Irishness.
Hasn't James got some Irishness in him?
With a touch of Quebec?
Mind you, the way the SNP do sums that could still leave him 125% Scottish.....
"it was a slight pity that the 3rd option 'St Margaret's Crossing' had not been picked as we could have many jolly japes deliberately misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it referred to"
I voted for St Margaret's Crossing. The idea that any Scot would mistake Margaret Thatcher for a saint is pushing credibility somewhat, even as a joke.
But doubtless "Margaret and Denis are laughing like drains" even as we speak, Carlotta! Did you ever meet them?
Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Or you? I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm
Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......
I may not have exact recall of the kerfuffle but I'm pretty damn sure you didn't just say "I'm not a fan of the SNP" and then Malcolm jumped in. Perhaps there was a bit more to it than that?
It was a post about the name of the new Forth Crossing - the 'Queensferry Crossing' where I remarked that out of mischievousness it was a slight pity that the 3rd option 'St Margaret's Crossing' had not been picked as we could have many jolly japes deliberately misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it referred to - this set off Malcolm's tirade about me loathing all things Scotland & Scottish....which struck me somewhat of an over-reaction....
Sadly as everyone on PB knows by now one persons mischief and jolly japes is another persons smears and tension fillled trolling. Or something.
I trust Malcolm did not storm off in the huff vowing never to return? There's been a bit too much of that of late from some of our right wing friends sadly.
Ah, yet another ethnonationalist. Is it just me, or has any else spotted the correlation on PB between ethnonationalism and support for the Tory party?
"Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm."
Exactly. 'Measuring Scottishness' games on PB are practically the intellectual property of the Tory contingent, notably Alanbrooke and Monica, but I don't hear Carlotta complaining about that.
Don't be silly James I measure Irishness.
Hasn't James got some Irishness in him?
With a touch of Quebec?
Mind you, the way the SNP do sums that could still leave him 125% Scottish.....
touchy subject with him, for some reason he feels bad about anything Irish, but there you go. I suppose it's mainlining porridge all the time, it can't be good for you.
Quite Roger. Especially as the the south African prime minister was warned repeatedly during the thatcher era that government along racial lines was unacceptable and Nelson Mandela should be freed.
Who did the warning????.....er........Margaret Thatcher (cough).
Indeed - who needs F W De Klerk when we have Roger to listen to?
"Mr de Klerk, 77, who was South Africa's last white leader, will attend Baroness Thatcher's funeral in London on Wednesday. He spoke of his "great admiration" for Britain's first female prime minister, calling her a "strong leader" and an "honest politician," who had been very supportive and positive about South Africa's future. "She was encouraging fundamental change, constitutional change, she had – over the years – taken the position that Nelson Mandela needed to be released and needed to be part of the solution. There is this wrong impression that she was very negative towards him," he said. He added that Baroness Thatcher was "a strong critic of apartheid" and understood "the need for reform".
Upon independence, Scotland would gain a voice and a vote in the Council of Ministers for the first time.
Its funny. Making one's own choice as a country to enter the European Union is very powerful.
Some countries have endured terrible privations inside the EU, and big democratic deficits, and yet they still want to stay in. I can only assume its because they made the choice themselves.
The contrast with Scotland is interesting, since very few Scots were involved in the decision to pass the Act Of Union, and the Union of the Crowns only happened because the non-Scottish branch of the royal family died out.
Perhaps because there was an air of Scotland being forced into Union, they haven't had to suffer the privations now being suffered by Greece and Ireland. Until recently they even had a very generous representation in Parliament, and they were allowed to maintain a separate legal system, etc.
One wonders how this might change if, for the first time, the people of Scotland choose to be members of the Union...? English Tories might never forgive them for it.
Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Or you? I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm
Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......
I may not have exact recall of the kerfuffle but I'm pretty damn sure you didn't just say "I'm not a fan of the SNP" and then Malcolm jumped in. Perhaps there was a bit more to it than that?
It was a post about the name of the new Forth Crossing - the 'Queensferry Crossing' where I remarked that out of mischievousness it was a slight pity that the 3rd option 'St Margaret's Crossing' had not been picked as we could have many jolly japes deliberately misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it referred to - this set off Malcolm's tirade about me loathing all things Scotland & Scottish....which struck me somewhat of an over-reaction....
Sadly as everyone on PB knows by now one persons mischief and jolly japes is another persons smears and tension fillled trolling. Or something.
I trust Malcolm did not storm off in the huff vowing never to return? There's been a bit too much of that of late from some of our right wing friends sadly.
ah yes Tories like Old Nat, Stuart Dickson, JJPG2 famously huffed and vowed never to return. Good to see them still posting.
"Indeed - who needs F W De Klerk when we have Roger to listen to?"
Let me get this straight - you're defending Mrs Thatcher's stance on apartheid by praying in aid the views of the last leader of apartheid South Africa? That's something you're seriously doing, is it?
Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Or you? I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm
Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......
I may not have exact recall of the kerfuffle but I'm pretty damn sure you didn't just say "I'm not a fan of the SNP" and then Malcolm jumped in. Perhaps there was a bit more to it than that?
It was a post about the name of the new Forth Crossing - the 'Queensferry Crossing' where I remarked that out of mischievousness it was a slight pity that the 3rd option 'St Margaret's Crossing' had not been picked as we could have many jolly japes deliberately misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it referred to - this set off Malcolm's tirade about me loathing all things Scotland & Scottish....which struck me somewhat of an over-reaction....
Sadly as everyone on PB knows by now one persons mischief and jolly japes is another persons smears and tension fillled trolling. Or something.
I trust Malcolm did not storm off in the huff vowing never to return? There's been a bit too much of that of late from some of our right wing friends sadly.
ah yes Tories like Old Nat, Stuart Dickson, JJPG2 famously huffed and vowed never to return. Good to see them still posting.
OldNat left of his own accord without making a complete twat of himself like some I could mention and the site is poorer without him. You're lying about Stuart Dickson. Don't know if you're telling the truth about JJPG2, sorry. Before my time.
How would I know if you yourself had not mentioned it?
If it is of no relevance, why did you mention it?
Another ethnonationalist?
My brother's best friend at St Andrews was also a Kelly. As a big Rangers supporter he went through the most amazing contortions on where the scottish Kelly's came from. Obviously not Ireland.
Kelly falsely claimed that Thatcher was unpopular in Scotland. She always massively outpolled the SNP in GEs usually by a ratio of 3 : 1 . It's just an idiotic SNP/SLab myth.
Let me get this straight - you're attacking Mrs Thatcher's stance on apartheid by praying in aid the views of Roger of this parish, whose emotional expostulations have been exposed as factually incorrect time and time again?
"In a letter to Botha in October 1985 she wrote: "I continue to believe, as I have said to you before, that the release of Nelson Mandela would have more impact than almost any single action you could undertake."
When Botha stepped down after a stroke in 1989, he was replaced by FW de Klerk, who met Thatcher at Downing Street in June. I was among a group of journalists waiting outside No 10 with the promise that he would give a press conference straight after. We watched him leave then ran up Whitehall to the South African embassy where he had promised to speak. He did not turn up. We were told later that he had been too shocked by Thatcher's vehemence.
..And when [Mandela] came to London, the ANC central committee insisted – against his wishes – that he did not meet Thatcher. After he did finally meet her later that year he thanked her for helping to end apartheid and announced this at a press conference soon after. Senior ANC officials spluttered with rage.
Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Or you? I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm
Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......
I may not have exact recall of the kerfuffle but I'm pretty damn sure you didn't just say "I'm not a fan of the SNP" and then Malcolm jumped in. Perhaps there was a bit more to it than that?
It was a post about the name of the new Forth Crossing - the 'Queensferry Crossing' where I remarked that out of mischievousness it was a slight pity that the 3rd option 'St Margaret's Crossing' had not been picked as we could have many jolly japes deliberately misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it referred to - this set off Malcolm's tirade about me loathing all things Scotland & Scottish....which struck me somewhat of an over-reaction....
Sadly as everyone on PB knows by now one persons mischief and jolly japes is another persons smears and tension fillled trolling. Or something.
I trust Malcolm did not storm off in the huff vowing never to return? There's been a bit too much of that of late from some of our right wing friends sadly.
ah yes Tories like Old Nat, Stuart Dickson, JJPG2 famously huffed and vowed never to return. Good to see them still posting.
OldNat left of his own accord without making a complete twat of himself like some I could mention and the site is poorer without him. You might want to rethink the definition of leaving willingly for Stuart Dickson. Don't know if you're telling the truth about JJPG2, sorry. Before my time.
No Mick SD started being a tit and got yellow carded. This was followed by a string of nats orchestrated by JK saying they weren't going to post on a censored site ON left on that basis. Then oddly started posting on a site with more rules than here and which he seems to hav e left in a huff as of March ( not sure why ). To your credit you weren't one of those playing the crying game.
"Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......"
Based on your track record of 'summarising' the views of SNP supporters, Carlotta, I won't exactly faint with amazement if I discover that isn't quite what Malcolm said.
For the sake of context, would you mind telling us when you left Scotland? Or if you don't want to do that, perhaps you could tell us what rough percentage of your life you have spent in Scotland?
I'm reminded of the words of Karl Lueger: "I decide who is a Jew"
Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Or you? I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm
Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......
I may not have exact recall of the kerfuffle but I'm pretty damn sure you didn't just say "I'm not a fan of the SNP" and then Malcolm jumped in. Perhaps there was a bit more to it than that?
It was a post about the name of the new Forth Crossing - the 'Queensferry Crossing' where I remarked that out of mischievousness it was a slight pity that the 3rd option 'St Margaret's Crossing' had not been picked as we could have many jolly japes deliberately misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it referred to - this set off Malcolm's tirade about me loathing all things Scotland & Scottish....which struck me somewhat of an over-reaction....
Sadly as everyone on PB knows by now one persons mischief and jolly japes is another persons smears and tension fillled trolling. Or something.
I trust Malcolm did not storm off in the huff vowing never to return? There's been a bit too much of that of late from some of our right wing friends sadly.
ah yes Tories like Old Nat, Stuart Dickson, JJPG2 famously huffed and vowed never to return. Good to see them still posting.
OldNat left of his own accord without making a complete twat of himself like some I could mention and the site is poorer without him. You might want to rethink the definition of leaving willingly for Stuart Dickson. Don't know if you're telling the truth about JJPG2, sorry. Before my time.
No Mick SD started being a tit and got yellow carded. This was followed by a string of nats orchestrated by JK saying they weren't going to post on a censored site ON left on that basis. Then oddly started posting on a site with more rules than here and which he seems to hav e left in a huff as of March ( not sure why ). To your credit you weren't one of those playing the crying game.
You'll forgive me if I don't take your version of events as the truth.
"Quite Roger. Especially as the the south African prime minister was warned repeatedly during the thatcher era that government along racial lines was unacceptable and Nelson Mandela should be freed."
As Suzanne Moore said ....beware Tory revisionist historians.........
I imagine you either weren't born yet or you slept right through the 80's. Lucky you.
Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Or you? I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Bit rich considering you were the one who wheeled it out to have a pop at Malcolm
Hardly - Malcolm had called me a Scotland hater who loathed all things Scottish....and all because I'm not a fan of the SNP......
I may not have exact recall of the kerfuffle but I'm pretty damn sure you didn't just say "I'm not a fan of the SNP" and then Malcolm jumped in. Perhaps there was a bit more to it than that?
It was a post about the name of the new Forth Crossing - the 'Queensferry Crossing' where I remarked that out of mischievousness it was a slight pity that the 3rd option 'St Margaret's Crossing' had not been picked as we could have many jolly japes deliberately misunderstanding which 'Margaret' it referred to - this set off Malcolm's tirade about me loathing all things Scotland & Scottish....which struck me somewhat of an over-reaction....
Sadly as everyone on PB knows by now one persons mischief and jolly japes is another persons smears and tension fillled trolling. Or something.
I trust Malcolm did not storm off in the huff vowing never to return? There's been a bit too much of that of late from some of our right wing friends sadly.
ah yes Tories like Old Nat, Stuart Dickson, JJPG2 famously huffed and vowed never to return. Good to see them still posting.
OldNat left of his own accord without making a complete twat of himself like some I could mention and the site is poorer without him. You might want to rethink the definition of leaving willingly for Stuart Dickson. Don't know if you're telling the truth about JJPG2, sorry. Before my time.
No Mick SD started being a tit and got yellow carded. This was followed by a string of nats orchestrated by JK saying they weren't going to post on a censored site ON left on that basis. Then oddly started posting on a site with more rules than here and which he seems to hav e left in a huff as of March ( not sure why ). To your credit you weren't one of those playing the crying game.
You'll forgive me if I don't take your version of events as the truth.
Comments
Correctimundo. These countries have moved apart inexorably, and I don't think scots should accept rule from Westminster any more than English people should accept Scottish labour MPs voting for measures they would't dream of implementing in Scotland.
Time to say goodbye. I don't know what's really forced these countries apart, I don;t know why the Scots of today feel so differently to their grandparents and great grandparents. The former don't have LESS democracy, or more privations, than the latter (?). But there it is. I hope you win, and I still think you might.
So hopelessly out of touch yet so completely oblivious to it.
So according to you the Trussell Trust and their 325 foodbanks, the Child Poverty Action Group, Gingerbread who represent lone parents and the Catholic Church are ALL "vested interests" and "metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate".
You remember when the chumocracy referred to certain right wingers as "mad swivel-eyed loons", who do you think they were talking about?
It is very hard for Charities involved in an area not to become vested interests in that area.
Pro rata Scotland ( Pop 5m/ EU Pop 500m ) should have 1% of the EU Parlt that's 7 or 8 seats.
Point taken. You're right, Alan - as a small independent nation, Scotland would have an advantage, and we should grasp that with both hands.
EDIT : Although it does have to be said that Scotland is currently under-represented even on the figures you quote - we only have six MEPs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_Parliament
But Im sure more expenses troughers in Brussels/Strasbourg will be a cure to all that ails you....an increase of 7 (more than double your current number), representing less than 1% of the total will make all the difference in the world.....and no doubt will be nodded through....tho good luck in getting rUK to agree to providing those - increasing the total number of MEPs may require Treaty Change....
This is interesting from you, Alan. Would you confirm that you are now in favour of the UK government sacrificing the British national interest in certain areas if they feel it would be in the wider interest of the EU as a whole? Do you, indeed, feel that they have a moral duty to do so?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/06/audio-ed-balls-peddles-myths-again/
Thankyou again, but weird though it may seem to you, I'm reasonably optimistic that Scotland will be treated the same as other independent countries of a similar size. And, as you know, the European legislature has two 'chambers', of which the European Parliament is only one. Upon independence, Scotland would gain a voice and a vote in the Council of Ministers for the first time.
So @LabourPress can't offer any spokespeople on Work prog or Infrastructure 4 @lbc973 Drive. Well done. Clearly busier than Govt Ministers.
So according to you the Trussell Trust the Child Poverty Action Group, Gingerbread who represent lone parents and the Catholic Church are ALL "vested interests"
yes - without question.
Why? because the Irish themselves decided to go into Europe.
Trying to crank down the lunacy just a touch? Naughty, naughty. You said this. So are they or are they not all "metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate", without question?
Its funny. Making one's own choice as a country to enter the European Union is very powerful.
Some countries have endured terrible privations inside the EU, and big democratic deficits, and yet they still want to stay in. I can only assume its because they made the choice themselves.
...Last year a record 435 sentences were referred to his office, compared with 377 in 2011 and 342 in 2010. Of those, only 344 were eligible to be considered. He referred 88 of them to the Court of Appeal, resulting in higher sentences in 62 cases, or 76 per cent.
Three judges featured in the list more than once: Judge Joy, who had three cases referred; Judge Jukes, QC, who had two (one of them resulting in an increase) and Judge Pearce-Higgins, QC, who also had two, one resulting in an increase..." http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/law/article3801812.ece
Not in the eyes of God, Alan. Do you think Britain should pass its permanent UN Security Council seat to the more populous Germany, for example? Or perhaps Britain and France should both cease to be permanent members, and the EU as a whole should take a seat?
It's like in the real world, there's a huge difference between £2bn and £20bn. In political-argument-world, they're both just 'a lot of money'.
The bet itself got publicity, as evidenced by the fact we're talking about it. If you had £200,000 to play with and wanted to make a profit on it, there must be easier and more risk-free ways of doing it than betting at odds of 1/6 on one option in a two-horse race.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2013/06/denial-is-a-river-in-scotland/
Only three years ago Alex Salmond told The Times that:
It is really important, in my view, to be able to say to people how we can change the circumstances and increase revenue as well as decreasing expenditure. It is my job to come up with some answers, along with others. If you jump up and down nihilistically saying ‘dreadful, dreadful, dreadful, cuts, cuts, cuts’ then I would be failing in my duty to the people.
I filled in a Guardian "ethics" questionnaire yesterday and was torn between angling all my answers so as to keep them offering holidays in Maldives while raving against holidaying in the Maldives because that is always enjoyable to see especially on CiF and saying no - they shouldn't have any advertising which conflicted with their editorial line which would put them out of business (sooner).
It was an exquisite dilemma.
Now Rudd is turning the fear campaign against Abbott: ''It is time for proven national economic leadership … Mr Abbott's alternative economic policy is to copy the British Conservatives - launch a national slash and burn, austerity drive and drive the economy into recession as happened in Britain. A double dip and almost a triple dip recession in the United Kingdom.''
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/no-longer-the-martyr-its-time-for-rudd-to-lead-20130626-2oxt1.html#ixzz2XQDj8iV2
Who? When? Where? Is Carlotta predicting a Scottish Tory surge? Crikey, that's brave!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23079082
Con:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dFBfdXVyTFluc1JaVUpYaWhjZEZNWkE#gid=0
Lab:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dDZOamVtV0c1NGxVekhhaEwxVkF6LWc#gid=0
LD:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dE9jMmxSbFRSZzNCbzJscUtMVWJDb3c#gid=0
UKIP:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dFZZaXFjaVVfd1k1Sl8wa2ZMMXYydmc#gid=0
Green:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dGFuUHZONEplQzhFVGtkYkIzQ1dWZmc#gid=0
Give up their permanent membership, you mean? If so, agreed. (Although the whole concept of permanent, veto-wielding members is a colonial relic that needs to be abandoned.)
"History will regard her as the worst prime minister since Kevin Rudd."
http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/australia-leading-article/8947771/julias-demise/
And she did provide some memorable Spectator covers:
https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/350243186683310080/photo/1
She got very snippy with, Malcolm was it? and proclaimed her scottishness to all. I was quite taken aback I have to say as all these years posting on here I didn't even know we had yet another scottish tory in our midst. No doubt everyone else knew but me.
So nobody from SLAB as far as I can see, and despite the whining that frequently appears about SNP posters having the temerity to speak out, we seem to be 'blessed' with quite a few scottish tories on here. Enough to merit an entire SCON conference almost.
Perhaps they should be referred to as the CyberSCONs? Or better still, the CyberScones.
Yes, she mentioned it to me at an early stage, although by the sounds of it she's been away for a very, very long time. Question, though - is Carlotta more or less "Scottish" than JackW? Or Douglas Hurd?
Too right. I've been following John McTernan's comic capers Down Under with considerable interest.
I do love it when the Nats get into 'more Scottish than thou....'
Well, I've lived here all my life. What year did you leave?
"Really, I have no desire to hear them from leaders of parties who described his organisation as terrorist, who believed that sanctions were wrong, whose jolly young members wore T-shirts demanding he be strung up. Of course, not all Tories were pro-apartheid, but I can already feel the revisionism revving up.
..........The struggle against apartheid was the one thing that unified the left. I came to it accidentally............."
Good article by Suzanne Moore. There is no greater reason to despise the Tory Party in general and Mrs Thatcher and john Major in particular than this. Their 100% support for South Africa and Apatheid made the world feel sick. It was the reason many of us on the left became interested in politics. When Mandela dies I hope the wave of sentiment will unearth things the Tories of the 80's would hope and pray would have been forgotten forever.
"Mr Rudd has espoused so many different positions that he leaves virtually any sober person with the impression that his arguments are always dodgy. Simply put, he lacks deep conviction, gut instinct and will power. That is why he leads no movement, is spokesman for no cause and has no real cheer squad."
http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/8941901/death-wish-2013/
Jesus, that's a shock.
Exactly. 'Measuring Scottishness' games on PB are practically the intellectual property of the Tory contingent, notably Alanbrooke and Monica, but I don't hear Carlotta complaining about that.
Based on your track record of 'summarising' the views of SNP supporters, Carlotta, I won't exactly faint with amazement if I discover that isn't quite what Malcolm said.
For the sake of context, would you mind telling us when you left Scotland? Or if you don't want to do that, perhaps you could tell us what rough percentage of your life you have spent in Scotland?
Come now, a scottish tory is a scottish tory and let's hear no more about it. They are proud and steadfast in their beliefs. Probably.
Or by leaving the country. Or both.
Quite Roger. Especially as the the south African prime minister was warned repeatedly during the thatcher era that government along racial lines was unacceptable and Nelson Mandela should be freed.
Who did the warning????.....er........Margaret Thatcher (cough).
With a touch of Quebec?
Mind you, the way the SNP do sums that could still leave him 125% Scottish.....
I voted for St Margaret's Crossing. The idea that any Scot would mistake Margaret Thatcher for a saint is pushing credibility somewhat, even as a joke.
But doubtless "Margaret and Denis are laughing like drains" even as we speak, Carlotta! Did you ever meet them?
I trust Malcolm did not storm off in the huff vowing never to return?
There's been a bit too much of that of late from some of our right wing friends sadly.
With a touch of Quebec?"
Ah, yet another ethnonationalist. Is it just me, or has any else spotted the correlation on PB between ethnonationalism and support for the Tory party?
"Mr de Klerk, 77, who was South Africa's last white leader, will attend Baroness Thatcher's funeral in London on Wednesday.
He spoke of his "great admiration" for Britain's first female prime minister, calling her a "strong leader" and an "honest politician," who had been very supportive and positive about South Africa's future.
"She was encouraging fundamental change, constitutional change, she had – over the years – taken the position that Nelson Mandela needed to be released and needed to be part of the solution. There is this wrong impression that she was very negative towards him," he said.
He added that Baroness Thatcher was "a strong critic of apartheid" and understood "the need for reform".
Worth listening to the whole interview:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9998531/FW-de-Klerk-Margaret-Thatcher-was-the-greatest-leader-I-ever-met.html
Perhaps because there was an air of Scotland being forced into Union, they haven't had to suffer the privations now being suffered by Greece and Ireland. Until recently they even had a very generous representation in Parliament, and they were allowed to maintain a separate legal system, etc.
One wonders how this might change if, for the first time, the people of Scotland choose to be members of the Union...? English Tories might never forgive them for it.
Lie.
Let me get this straight - you're defending Mrs Thatcher's stance on apartheid by praying in aid the views of the last leader of apartheid South Africa? That's something you're seriously doing, is it?
If it is of no relevance, why did you mention it?
Another ethnonationalist?
It's so long ago that I can't even remember, but my guess is that somebody asked me. It's hard to conceal Irish ancestry when you have an Irish name.
Of course unlike you people here know what my name is. Is yours quintessentially Scottish?
I'm delighted. Did you ever meet Margaret and Denis Thatcher, Carlotta?
Exactly. He was banned for the heinous crime of using the words "pure comedy gold".
Rest assured I'm not a Rangers supporter, Field Marshal.
Let me get this straight - you're attacking Mrs Thatcher's stance on apartheid by praying in aid the views of Roger of this parish, whose emotional expostulations have been exposed as factually incorrect time and time again?
That's something you're seriously doing, is it?
You break this time and time again and I am getting sick of it.
If you have issues contact me directly.
Thinking back to Margaret Thatcher's period as Prime Minister, do you think she was...
LONDON
A good or great Prime Minister 59%
A poor or terrible Prime Minister 23%
SOUTH (EXCLUDING LONDON)
A good or great Prime Minister 57%
A poor or terrible Prime Minister 26%
WALES AND ENGLISH MIDLANDS
A good or great Prime Minister 51%
A poor or terrible Prime Minister 29%
NORTH OF ENGLAND
A good or great Prime Minister 49%
A poor or terrible Prime Minister 35%
SCOTLAND
A good or great Prime Minister 30%
A poor or terrible Prime Minister 44%
Thinking about her period as Prime Minister, do you think Margaret Thatcher left Britain economically better off or worse off?
LONDON
Better off 62%
Worse off 27%
SOUTH (EXCLUDING LONDON)
Better off 50%
Worse off 29%
WALES AND ENGLISH MIDLANDS
Better off 46%
Worse off 37%
NORTH OF ENGLAND
Better off 43%
Worse off 41%
SCOTLAND
Better off 33%
Worse off 46%
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/yougov-poll-on-attitudes-to-mrs.html
When Botha stepped down after a stroke in 1989, he was replaced by FW de Klerk, who met Thatcher at Downing Street in June. I was among a group of journalists waiting outside No 10 with the promise that he would give a press conference straight after. We watched him leave then ran up Whitehall to the South African embassy where he had promised to speak. He did not turn up. We were told later that he had been too shocked by Thatcher's vehemence.
..And when [Mandela] came to London, the ANC central committee insisted – against his wishes – that he did not meet Thatcher. After he did finally meet her later that year he thanked her for helping to end apartheid and announced this at a press conference soon after. Senior ANC officials spluttered with rage.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-apartheid-mandela
It is not my phrase, I merely purloined it for better comic effect. ;^ )
"Quite Roger. Especially as the the south African prime minister was warned repeatedly during the thatcher era that government along racial lines was unacceptable and Nelson Mandela should be freed."
As Suzanne Moore said ....beware Tory revisionist historians.........
I imagine you either weren't born yet or you slept right through the 80's. Lucky you.
Yes, that's what happens when you listen to Monica on a constant loop.
"You'll forgive me if I don't take your version of events as the truth."
Extremely wise in this particular case.