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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB/Polling Matters Christmas Special Podcast – Part 1

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited December 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB/Polling Matters Christmas Special Podcast – Part 1

In part one of a two-part Christmas special Keiran is joined by Matt Singh and Rob Vance to look back at the year that was 2015 and discuss what Polling Matters has learned along the way. Key areas discussed include:
1) Where the polls went wrong and the impact polling had on the General Election.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

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    First!
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    second. Bugger
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    kle4 said:

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture.
    That is simply fantastic. And at least the man gets top billing somewhere, even if it is in the special thanks section of a film credits sequence.
    Squint and you can make it out:
    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3796862/thumbs/o-STAR-WARS-570.jpg

    Is Osborne a sci-fi geek? If he is, this would make his day/month/year!
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    the Fourth
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    Dair said:

    Interesting to see there are several 1/10 and 2/10 reviews for the new Star Wars movie in IMDB:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/reviews

    Your excitement before seeing the Remake seems to have drained away, somewhat.
    Well, I felt it was a good film in terms of effects, action and acting, but essentially it was a remake of the very first Star Wars from 1977. Without giving away spoilers, the plot was almost identical. And I guess I did feel a bit conflicted when I left the cinema. Reading through the reviews on IMDB (which I must stress I only started reading AFTER I watched it), I find myself agreeing with more of the negative points than the positive ones.

    I do hope Episode VIII will be better and more original, plot-wise.

    The Empire Strikes Back (1980) is still my favourite film in the Franchise.
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    HYUFD said:

    Interesting to see there are several 1/10 and 2/10 reviews for the new Star Wars movie in IMDB:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/reviews

    Every film has at least the odd negative review but it has a 94% rating with Rotten Tomatoes and will break box office records which is ultimately what will count
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens
    Those are ratings from professional critics, not ordinary souls like you and me!
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    Dair said:

    Interesting to see there are several 1/10 and 2/10 reviews for the new Star Wars movie in IMDB:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/reviews

    Your excitement before seeing the Remake seems to have drained away, somewhat.
    Well, I felt it was a good film in terms of effects, action and acting, but essentially it was a remake of the very first Star Wars from 1977. Without giving away spoilers, the plot was almost identical. And I guess I did feel a bit conflicted when I left the cinema. Reading through the reviews on IMDB (which I must stress I only started reading AFTER I watched it), I find myself agreeing with more of the negative points than the positive ones.

    I do hope Episode VIII will be better and more original, plot-wise.

    The Empire Strikes Back (1980) is still my favourite film in the Franchise.
    well, all the best saga stories are kind of repetitive. G.Lucas said he wanted a kind of Arthurian legend type thing- and those stories have a few basic patterns (as far as I remember) but they are no less enjoyable for it. Hm, time to dig up a copy of Le Morte d'Arthur. A long while since I read it.

    Similarly, episodes in Don Quixote. And in The Journey to the West.

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    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture.
    That is simply fantastic. And at least the man gets top billing somewhere, even if it is in the special thanks section of a film credits sequence.
    Squint and you can make it out:
    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3796862/thumbs/o-STAR-WARS-570.jpg

    Is Osborne a sci-fi geek? If he is, this would make his day/month/year!
    Someone was naughty and used their camera in the theatre!!
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    Dair said:

    Interesting to see there are several 1/10 and 2/10 reviews for the new Star Wars movie in IMDB:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/reviews

    Your excitement before seeing the Remake seems to have drained away, somewhat.
    Well, I felt it was a good film in terms of effects, action and acting, but essentially it was a remake of the very first Star Wars from 1977. Without giving away spoilers, the plot was almost identical. And I guess I did feel a bit conflicted when I left the cinema. Reading through the reviews on IMDB (which I must stress I only started reading AFTER I watched it), I find myself agreeing with more of the negative points than the positive ones.

    I do hope Episode VIII will be better and more original, plot-wise.

    The Empire Strikes Back (1980) is still my favourite film in the Franchise.
    well, all the best saga stories are kind of repetitive. G.Lucas said he wanted a kind of Arthurian legend type thing- and those stories have a few basic patterns (as far as I remember) but they are no less enjoyable for it. Hm, time to dig up a copy of Le Morte d'Arthur. A long while since I read it.

    Similarly, episodes in Don Quixote. And in The Journey to the West.

    "Oh, I'm afraid Disney's profits will still be operational when your friends arrive!" :lol:
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    Interesting comment on the podcast - 'we know the demographics of the population, but we don't know the demographics of the people who vote'
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    Also from the podcast - Labour's route back to power is either via recovery in Scotland (which looks unlikely) or coalition with the SNP - which may be a challenging sell to the English.....and resolution of the West Lothian question will make getting more English seats all the more critical....
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    Also from the podcast: General Elections are decided by people who aren't politically engaged who ignore politics for most of the time, then come the GE ask themselves 'has this lot had a decent crack, or is it time to give the other lot a go?' If so they 'take a look at the 'other lot' and go 'ok then' (Blair), or 'no' (Kinnock). The last GE was probably a combination of the two.....
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Also from the podcast - Labour's route back to power is either via recovery in Scotland (which looks unlikely) or coalition with the SNP - which may be a challenging sell to the English.....and resolution of the West Lothian question will make getting more English seats all the more critical....

    Coalition with the SNP is unworkable - success for one side is failure for the other. In addition the recent GE showed a level of English impatience with our northern neighbours which isn't going away in a hurry. The discipline imposed on the SNP MPs in Westminster also comes across as almost Korean in its false unanimity - and likewise is deeply unattractive. Labour has no route back to power in its present manifestation. Middle England will see to that.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Also from the podcast: General Elections are decided by people who aren't politically engaged who ignore politics for most of the time, then come the GE ask themselves 'has this lot had a decent crack, or is it time to give the other lot a go?' If so they 'take a look at the 'other lot' and go 'ok then' (Blair), or 'no' (Kinnock). The last GE was probably a combination of the two.....

    I'm pretty sure that is an accurate analysis of how elections happen in the world outside PB which is a mere suburb of the Westminster village despite its claim to be somehow rooted in the real world.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Tim_B said:

    second Bugger

    One may only admire your fortitude ....

    :smile:

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    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    So "the force" really was with George Osborne after all. All that kipper crap yesterday.. LOL
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    According to the radio report, they even managed to get an 'NHS crisis' into the report as well ...:(
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    According to the radio report, they even managed to get an 'NHS crisis' into the report as well ...:(
    Yes. Though I think Mrs May has backed down, nurses are not subject to the cap from November.

    http://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/nurse-managers/immigration-cap-would-halve-uks-migrant-nurse-workforce/5043358.fullarticle

    There are many sides to some of the current problems in the NHs including an ageing population, fragmented families unable to cope with sick relatives, Britains love of sugar salt and fat etc. Some are own goals by the government though: restrictions on international Nurse recruitment, the paycut of the new Junior doctors contract leading to a recruitment crisis, caps on agency/locum ratesleaving staffing gaps and cuts in social care by councils.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2015
    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    It's good to see Douglas agreeing with me. ;)
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    Ministers are refusing to release migrant numbers.

    What a disgraceful way to run government.

  • Options

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    According to the radio report, they even managed to get an 'NHS crisis' into the report as well ...:(
    Yes. Though I think Mrs May has backed down, nurses are not subject to the cap from November.

    http://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/nurse-managers/immigration-cap-would-halve-uks-migrant-nurse-workforce/5043358.fullarticle

    There are many sides to some of the current problems in the NHs including an ageing population, fragmented families unable to cope with sick relatives, Britains love of sugar salt and fat etc. Some are own goals by the government though: restrictions on international Nurse recruitment, the paycut of the new Junior doctors contract leading to a recruitment crisis, caps on agency/locum ratesleaving staffing gaps and cuts in social care by councils.

    And we require new nurses to be ridiculously overqualified from an educational perspective.

    Why can't we just recruit raw caring people in this country, and train them up on the job?
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    According to the radio report, they even managed to get an 'NHS crisis' into the report as well ...:(
    Yes. Though I think Mrs May has backed down, nurses are not subject to the cap from November.

    http://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/nurse-managers/immigration-cap-would-halve-uks-migrant-nurse-workforce/5043358.fullarticle

    There are many sides to some of the current problems in the NHs including an ageing population, fragmented families unable to cope with sick relatives, Britains love of sugar salt and fat etc. Some are own goals by the government though: restrictions on international Nurse recruitment, the paycut of the new Junior doctors contract leading to a recruitment crisis, caps on agency/locum ratesleaving staffing gaps and cuts in social care by councils.

    And we require new nurses to be ridiculously overqualified from an educational perspective.

    Why can't we just recruit raw caring people in this country, and train them up on the job?
    The incomparable Mr Osborne ended bursaries for student nurses in the autumn statement. Future nurses will pay the same fees as other students. Apparently this will help recruitment!

    Its almost as if tbe government wants the crisis in staffing to worsen. We can only speculate as to why.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Osborne has given his chief of staff a 42% pay rise up to £98000. That's what I call reducing the state, good work George.
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    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    According to the radio report, they even managed to get an 'NHS crisis' into the report as well ...:(
    Yes. Though I think Mrs May has backed down, nurses are not subject to the cap from November.

    http://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/nurse-managers/immigration-cap-would-halve-uks-migrant-nurse-workforce/5043358.fullarticle

    There are many sides to some of the current problems in the NHs including an ageing population, fragmented families unable to cope with sick relatives, Britains love of sugar salt and fat etc. Some are own goals by the government though: restrictions on international Nurse recruitment, the paycut of the new Junior doctors contract leading to a recruitment crisis, caps on agency/locum ratesleaving staffing gaps and cuts in social care by councils.

    To say nothing of the electorate's vicious addiction to free health-care at the point of use.

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    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    According to the radio report, they even managed to get an 'NHS crisis' into the report as well ...:(
    They live on a different planet.

    It's no wonder most MPs think the same on this, given most of them are middle-class graduates and more often than not mainly London based.
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    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    One of my Sunday pieces is about immigration.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
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    Fight. Fight. Fight. From the Robin Brandt Twitter feed


    Here we go again... @DouglasCarswell has told @BBCEssex that @UKIP needs a new leader.

    he says it’s time for a leader who radiates “sunshine & optimism” to reinvigorate the party – but says he doesn’t want the job himself.

    .@DouglasCarswell said @UKIP performance at the Oldham by election proves the party needs a “fresh face” at the top.

    .@Nigel_Farage has told the BBC his only MP should 'put up or shut up'

    .@UKIP leader adds comment 'hasn't hit me cold - he has been saying this privately for some months.'

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    felix said:

    Also from the podcast: General Elections are decided by people who aren't politically engaged who ignore politics for most of the time, then come the GE ask themselves 'has this lot had a decent crack, or is it time to give the other lot a go?' If so they 'take a look at the 'other lot' and go 'ok then' (Blair), or 'no' (Kinnock). The last GE was probably a combination of the two.....

    I'm pretty sure that is an accurate analysis of how elections happen in the world outside PB which is a mere suburb of the Westminster village despite its claim to be somehow rooted in the real world.
    If asked, most people (if not all) will have an opinion on the big issues - and those of personal interest to them - that is informed by varying degrees of knowledge and awareness. But that's no different to most of our politicians, IMHO.

    On the other hand, most people find 'politics' (and its process) intensely boring, and barely tune in at all to by-elections, opinion polls, day-to-day debate and gossip.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Fight. Fight. Fight. From the Robin Brandt Twitter feed


    Here we go again... @DouglasCarswell has told @BBCEssex that @UKIP needs a new leader.

    he says it’s time for a leader who radiates “sunshine & optimism” to reinvigorate the party – but says he doesn’t want the job himself.

    .@DouglasCarswell said @UKIP performance at the Oldham by election proves the party needs a “fresh face” at the top.

    .@Nigel_Farage has told the BBC his only MP should 'put up or shut up'

    .@UKIP leader adds comment 'hasn't hit me cold - he has been saying this privately for some months.'

    Well I never, Douglas says what most kippers have been saying for ages.

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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    One of my Sunday pieces is about immigration.
    I'm looking forward to that, are you for and against at the moment? And is that likely to change by Sunday depending on the figures?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    Well, I hope they aren't going to use one from the Nat playbook and call a 'Remain' vote as good for 'Leave' ;)
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    In most people's mind they represent the core of the No vote. Hardly a peculiar thing to say unless they've suddenly become neutral on the issue.
  • Options

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    One of my Sunday pieces is about immigration.
    Interesting. I think it could be the defining issue of the next 20 years, as Hague's excellent Telegraph article recently explained.
  • Options

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    One of my Sunday pieces is about immigration.
    I'm looking forward to that, are you for and against at the moment? And is that likely to change by Sunday depending on the figures?
    Is nothing to do with the figures per se, more how some politicians can use the subject of immigration in a way to help their cause.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    One of my Sunday pieces is about immigration.
    I blame all those refugees from Alderan...
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    In most people's mind they represent the core of the No vote. Hardly a peculiar thing to say unless they've suddenly become neutral on the issue.
    Most people's mind or your mind?

    Jolly decent of you to speak for most people. UKIP want to leave the EU, you need to elaborate more on their "current trajectory" for your assertion to be any more than froth.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    One of my Sunday pieces is about immigration.
    I'm looking forward to that, are you for and against at the moment? And is that likely to change by Sunday depending on the figures?
    Is nothing to do with the figures per se, more how some politicians can use the subject of immigration in a way to help their cause.
    The real question is are you for or against AV?

    We know which way OGH leans (with his regrettable cancellation of the great event). :(
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Immigration is at an all-time high, and the immigration cap clearly isn't working, so let's remove it and make the immigration figures even higher, say MPs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35128149

    One of my Sunday pieces is about immigration.
    I'm looking forward to that, are you for and against at the moment? And is that likely to change by Sunday depending on the figures?
    Is nothing to do with the figures per se, more how some politicians can use the subject of immigration in a way to help their cause.
    I assume you posted that with your tongue firmly in your cheek?
  • Options

    Fight. Fight. Fight. From the Robin Brandt Twitter feed


    Here we go again... @DouglasCarswell has told @BBCEssex that @UKIP needs a new leader.

    he says it’s time for a leader who radiates “sunshine & optimism” to reinvigorate the party – but says he doesn’t want the job himself.

    .@DouglasCarswell said @UKIP performance at the Oldham by election proves the party needs a “fresh face” at the top.

    .@Nigel_Farage has told the BBC his only MP should 'put up or shut up'

    .@UKIP leader adds comment 'hasn't hit me cold - he has been saying this privately for some months.'

    Farage aiming for zero MPs?
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 20s20 seconds ago
    Douglas Carswell says Ukip should be an "optimistic, smiley, socially liberal, unapologetically free market party". http://polho.me/1lVByzk
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    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

  • Options

    Osborne has given his chief of staff a 42% pay rise up to £98000. That's what I call reducing the state, good work George.

    What would you consider an appropriate salary for the Chancellor of the Exchequer's chief of staff, bearing in mind their responsibilities?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,066
    Would the Tories have Carswell back?
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

  • Options

    Would the Tories have Carswell back?

    Yes. Reckless, hellz no.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Osborne has given his chief of staff a 42% pay rise up to £98000. That's what I call reducing the state, good work George.

    What would you consider an appropriate salary for the Chancellor of the Exchequer's chief of staff, bearing in mind their responsibilities?
    I've no idea what the responsibilities are, do you? Until recently the person was prepared to work for substantially less.

    At a time of public sector pay rises I consider Osborne giving staff a 42% pay rise pretty poor.
  • Options

    Osborne has given his chief of staff a 42% pay rise up to £98000. That's what I call reducing the state, good work George.

    What would you consider an appropriate salary for the Chancellor of the Exchequer's chief of staff, bearing in mind their responsibilities?
    Given its value on a CV, there'd be people who'd do it for nothing for a term of, say, 18 months.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Osborne has given his chief of staff a 42% pay rise up to £98000. That's what I call reducing the state, good work George.

    What would you consider an appropriate salary for the Chancellor of the Exchequer's chief of staff, bearing in mind their responsibilities?
    Seeing as inflation is near zero, why wasn't it just raised to a nice round £70,000 ?
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Would the Tories have Carswell back?

    Of course they would, and Mark Reckless.

    Anybody who thinks Kelly Tolhurst is a better parliamentarian than him should put her on QT.

  • Options

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    By Remain winning.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    In most people's mind they represent the core of the No vote. Hardly a peculiar thing to say unless they've suddenly become neutral on the issue.
    Most people's mind or your mind?

    Jolly decent of you to speak for most people. UKIP want to leave the EU, you need to elaborate more on their "current trajectory" for your assertion to be any more than froth.
    Clearly you're not a morning person Maybe read the posts again after you've had your weetabix - it might help.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    In most people's mind they represent the core of the No vote. Hardly a peculiar thing to say unless they've suddenly become neutral on the issue.
    Most people's mind or your mind?

    Jolly decent of you to speak for most people. UKIP want to leave the EU, you need to elaborate more on their "current trajectory" for your assertion to be any more than froth.
    Clearly you're not a morning person Maybe read the posts again after you've had your weetabix - it might help.
    Yes I've read them.

    More conservatives will vote Out than kippers, that doesn't exactly square your circle.
  • Options
    A Greek chorus has burst into song. Yet the mewling and squawking we'd hear on here if an avoidable policy screw-up costing billions emerged from the Treasury would be unbearable. £98,000 a year sounds ridiculously low for such a senior post within the executive.
  • Options

    Would the Tories have Carswell back?

    Of course they would, and Mark Reckless.

    Anybody who thinks Kelly Tolhurst is a better parliamentarian than him should put her on QT.

    Well she's not missed a vote in Parliament because she was pissed. Something Reckless managed after a little more than two months after being first elected.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

    Most of the evidence is shown by the results achieved - or alternatively the good old British public 'just aren't that into them' :) Or a bit of both.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    edited December 2015
    As Cameron buggers up his own EU 're-negotiation' strategy, he can sleep more easily during the next Carswell Farage spat. If Farage had had any sense, he wouldn't have cancelled his resignation in May.

    Never interrupt your enemies whilst they are making a mistake.
  • Options

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

    The party's utter failure in Oldham and general inability to make any capital from the disaster that is Jeremy Corbyn spring to mind.

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    In most people's mind they represent the core of the No vote. Hardly a peculiar thing to say unless they've suddenly become neutral on the issue.
    Most people's mind or your mind?

    Jolly decent of you to speak for most people. UKIP want to leave the EU, you need to elaborate more on their "current trajectory" for your assertion to be any more than froth.
    Clearly you're not a morning person Maybe read the posts again after you've had your weetabix - it might help.
    Yes I've read them.

    More conservatives will vote Out than kippers, that doesn't exactly square your circle.
    Jolly decent of you to predict how Conservatives will vote in a referendum in the future old chap. :)
  • Options
    I'd hazard a guess that most pbers hadn't heard of Mark Reckless before he defected. So I'll take some convincing that he's maturing into a major statesman.
  • Options
    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Just came back from seeing Star Wars - um, I liked it :)

    I was just about to post about it. I won't mention any spoilers but amongst maybe 200 in the theatre there were three of us who sat through the entire end credits. It's an annoying habit of mine (as far as others are concerned) and I was quite amazed by how long they went on. There must have been thousands of people. And then finally at the very end we come to some special thanks....... There were about seven of these. The first of which was George Osborne. Not just George Osborne, but George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer and First Secretary of State of the United Kingdom. Next up was Ed Vaizey, Minister of Culture. If I'd had a light sabre to hand I would have been tempted to throw it at the screen. There was, alas, no mention of any Lib Dems. The poor sods written out of the picture again.

    Incidentally I remember an old fun poll that suggested that Lib Dems voters were the most keen on sci-fi. I can't imagine how much it must hurt. The force is clearly still not with them.
    I saw through the end credits too - but I didn't catch the mentions of Osborne and Vaizey! I see it again at Leicester Square in a couple of weeks.
    Must be a lot of boring people then given this Star Wars film is set to be the biggest earning movie of all time
    Unlikely - adjusted for inflation, it has a long way to go to beat GWTW.....only the original Star Wars comes close - and thats still $200,000,000 shy of the record:

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

    Next best 'Empire Strikes Back is under half GWTW total.

    Of course films today are really just adverts for the ancillary toys/DVDs and other stuff where most of the money is made
    Adjusting for inflation is not an exact science
    The simplest measure (in an illustration that won't translate well across the Atlantic) is 'bums on seats' (or number of tickets sold) - which is how Box Office Mojo works out its inflation adjusted figure - by which measure its unlikely Star Wars VII will beat GWTW....cinema going simply isn't as an important part of people's entertainment as it was 75 years ago.....
    The US term is "fannies in the seats"... which also doesn't translate well across the Atlantic!
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Would the Tories have Carswell back?

    Of course they would, and Mark Reckless.

    Anybody who thinks Kelly Tolhurst is a better parliamentarian than him should put her on QT.

    Well she's not missed a vote in Parliament because she was pissed. Something Reckless managed after a little more than two months after being first elected.
    As somebody who has met both I know who I'd prefer to represent me, irrespective of party.

    It says a lot about the Conservative party that their MPs are too pissed to bother voting.

    Incidentally he's never had a drink since.

  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    A Greek chorus has burst into song. Yet the mewling and squawking we'd hear on here if an avoidable policy screw-up costing billions emerged from the Treasury would be unbearable. £98,000 a year sounds ridiculously low for such a senior post within the executive.

    The guidoesque-nihilist tendency can be loud.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

    Most of the evidence is shown by the results achieved - or alternatively the good old British public 'just aren't that into them' :) Or a bit of both.
    Separate issues.

    The assertion was that ukip leadership is lazy, it's total cobblers.

  • Options
    dr_spyn said:

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 20s20 seconds ago
    Douglas Carswell says Ukip should be an "optimistic, smiley, socially liberal, unapologetically free market party". http://polho.me/1lVByzk

    Sounds just like Dave's 2005 vision for the Tories. It's not a vision that is going to work in the traditional Labour heartlands.

  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    In most people's mind they represent the core of the No vote. Hardly a peculiar thing to say unless they've suddenly become neutral on the issue.
    Most people's mind or your mind?

    Jolly decent of you to speak for most people. UKIP want to leave the EU, you need to elaborate more on their "current trajectory" for your assertion to be any more than froth.
    Clearly you're not a morning person Maybe read the posts again after you've had your weetabix - it might help.
    Yes I've read them.

    More conservatives will vote Out than kippers, that doesn't exactly square your circle.
    Jolly decent of you to predict how Conservatives will vote in a referendum in the future old chap. :)
    It's a numbers game, 50% of Tories is a greater number than 100% kippers.

    Delighted that UKIP are influencing so many though.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Would the Tories have Carswell back?

    Of course they would, and Mark Reckless.

    Anybody who thinks Kelly Tolhurst is a better parliamentarian than him should put her on QT.

    Well she's not missed a vote in Parliament because she was pissed. Something Reckless managed after a little more than two months after being first elected.
    As somebody who has met both I know who I'd prefer to represent me, irrespective of party.

    It says a lot about the Conservative party that their MPs are too pissed to bother voting.

    Incidentally he's never had a drink since.

    It says a lot about UKIP that they welcomed him into their party knowing the 'pissed' problem. Oh and the voters took an entirely different view a few months ago about Kelly Tollhurst - pesky thing that democracy. :)
  • Options

    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    In most people's mind they represent the core of the No vote. Hardly a peculiar thing to say unless they've suddenly become neutral on the issue.
    Most people's mind or your mind?

    Jolly decent of you to speak for most people. UKIP want to leave the EU, you need to elaborate more on their "current trajectory" for your assertion to be any more than froth.
    Clearly you're not a morning person Maybe read the posts again after you've had your weetabix - it might help.
    Yes I've read them.

    More conservatives will vote Out than kippers, that doesn't exactly square your circle.
    Well, there are more Tories than Kippers.

    But UKIP is likely to be the only significant party promoting a Leave vote (just as the SNP was in the Indyref). Therefore a Remain win is a UKIP loss.
  • Options

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

    Most of the evidence is shown by the results achieved - or alternatively the good old British public 'just aren't that into them' :) Or a bit of both.
    Separate issues.

    The assertion was that ukip leadership is lazy, it's total cobblers.

    OK then, they work incredibly hard but they're just not very good.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    What a peculiar thing to say, how can ukip lose the referendum?

    In most people's mind they represent the core of the No vote. Hardly a peculiar thing to say unless they've suddenly become neutral on the issue.
    Most people's mind or your mind?

    Jolly decent of you to speak for most people. UKIP want to leave the EU, you need to elaborate more on their "current trajectory" for your assertion to be any more than froth.
    Clearly you're not a morning person Maybe read the posts again after you've had your weetabix - it might help.
    Yes I've read them.

    More conservatives will vote Out than kippers, that doesn't exactly square your circle.
    Jolly decent of you to predict how Conservatives will vote in a referendum in the future old chap. :)
    It's a numbers game, 50% of Tories is a greater number than 100% kippers.

    Delighted that UKIP are influencing so many though.
    I'll wait for the vote before telling people how conservatives will vote.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,975

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

    The party's utter failure in Oldham and general inability to make any capital from the disaster that is Jeremy Corbyn spring to mind.

    Labour seem securely on 30-33%. They should hold their heartlands on that figure, but won't advance out of them.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    As the last deep coal mine closes in Yorkshire, Yvette Cooper works Thatcher into a tweet.

    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/677210427571478528
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    dr_spyn said:

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 20s20 seconds ago
    Douglas Carswell says Ukip should be an "optimistic, smiley, socially liberal, unapologetically free market party". http://polho.me/1lVByzk

    In that way he'd attract MaxPB, Richard Tyndall, myself and others.

    However, the truth is that UKIP has gotten into the mid-teens, and with a shot at getting into the 20s next general election time, because it is Eurosceptic and socially conservative.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,975

    dr_spyn said:

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 20s20 seconds ago
    Douglas Carswell says Ukip should be an "optimistic, smiley, socially liberal, unapologetically free market party". http://polho.me/1lVByzk

    Sounds just like Dave's 2005 vision for the Tories. It's not a vision that is going to work in the traditional Labour heartlands.

    It would probably see UKIP lose, rather than gain, support. The constituency for a libertarian eurosceptic party is probably about 3%.
  • Options
    Good morning, everyone.

    Carswell is right, but the timing surprises me a little. Did he state this clearly when Farage was doing his hokey-cokey.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

    Most of the evidence is shown by the results achieved - or alternatively the good old British public 'just aren't that into them' :) Or a bit of both.
    Separate issues.

    The assertion was that ukip leadership is lazy, it's total cobblers.

    OK then, they work incredibly hard but they're just not very good.
    Lol - he pushed and pushed and pushed.... :)
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    dr_spyn said:

    As the last deep coal mine closes in Yorkshire, Yvette Cooper works Thatcher into a tweet.

    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/677210427571478528

    Cooper gets nostalgic for the good old days under Maggie. Bloody Tory....
  • Options

    A Greek chorus has burst into song. Yet the mewling and squawking we'd hear on here if an avoidable policy screw-up costing billions emerged from the Treasury would be unbearable. £98,000 a year sounds ridiculously low for such a senior post within the executive.

    Not much of a tough choice or being in it together to give your a senior adviser a 40% pay rise though, is it?

  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited December 2015

    I'd hazard a guess that most pbers hadn't heard of Mark Reckless before he defected. So I'll take some convincing that he's maturing into a major statesman.

    Not as much as I will....
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,975
    edited December 2015

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

    Most of the evidence is shown by the results achieved - or alternatively the good old British public 'just aren't that into them' :) Or a bit of both.
    Separate issues.

    The assertion was that ukip leadership is lazy, it's total cobblers.

    OK then, they work incredibly hard but they're just not very good.
    As it happens, I think there is a good deal of hard work, directed inefficiently, within the party.

    The most obvious failing is not signing supporters up for postal votes.
  • Options

    I'd hazard a guess that most pbers hadn't heard of Mark Reckless before he defected. So I'll take some convincing that he's maturing into a major statesman.

    Not as much as I will....
    Ahem.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Osborne has given his chief of staff a 42% pay rise up to £98000. That's what I call reducing the state, good work George.

    What would you consider an appropriate salary for the Chancellor of the Exchequer's chief of staff, bearing in mind their responsibilities?
    As a public servant I expect him to work 24/7 for free.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited December 2015

    Osborne has given his chief of staff a 42% pay rise up to £98000. That's what I call reducing the state, good work George.

    What would you consider an appropriate salary for the Chancellor of the Exchequer's chief of staff, bearing in mind their responsibilities?
    The responsibility lies with the chancellor.

    That's the whole point of these election thingys.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Would the Tories have Carswell back?

    I'm told not. Pour encourager les autres....
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,397
    Its almost as if Carswell believed that he had joined a real political party as opposed to a bandwagon for Farage. Such naivety in an elected politician is positively dangerous.

    But then I always found Carswell like that. Sweeping, simplistic solutions to complex problems without any consideration at all of vested interests. His heart is in the right place but...

    He is about to find once again that vested interests like Farage are not just small bumps in the road to be ridden over. My guess is he will be an independent MP within the month. I wonder if the failure to agree the unification of the Out campaigns has caused him to go public.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    edited December 2015
    Sean_F said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.

    UKIP's problem is that its leadership is lazy. It will not do the hard yards. Long lunches are preferable to detailed planning and policy meetings. As someone who is prepared to work all the hours, Carswell must find it very frustrating.

    Mr observer, do you have any evidence that ukip leadership is lazy? I suspect you know nothing of the machinations within the party.

    Most of the evidence is shown by the results achieved - or alternatively the good old British public 'just aren't that into them' :) Or a bit of both.
    Separate issues.

    The assertion was that ukip leadership is lazy, it's total cobblers.

    OK then, they work incredibly hard but they're just not very good.
    As it happens, I think there is a good deal of hard work, directed inefficiently, within the party.

    The most obvious failing is not signing supporters up for postal votes.

    Postal votes is a strategic failure that bears witness to a lack of thinking at the top. There should be people ensuring that it happens.

    It seems to me that the party's foot soldiers and supporters are consistently let down by its leadership.

  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    As someone with exceptionally little interest in sport, turns over or tunes out when reports come on the TV, and never checks the back pages - I can really see how a similar Meh could be applied to politics.

    I can't help noticing events when we win something significant [then promptly forget 90% of it] or a big scandal happens like FIFA, but otherwise I am almost totally ignorant about the subject. I don't know most of the SPOTY names or anything they've done. If I translate that into what normal people recall about politicians - it seems entirely likely.

    Also from the podcast: General Elections are decided by people who aren't politically engaged who ignore politics for most of the time, then come the GE ask themselves 'has this lot had a decent crack, or is it time to give the other lot a go?' If so they 'take a look at the 'other lot' and go 'ok then' (Blair), or 'no' (Kinnock). The last GE was probably a combination of the two.....

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    I bloody love Michael Fallon. He is such a bruiser.

    I must say whatever the outcome of talks about talks I had expected them to be conducted out of sight in a Brussels corridor rather than in plain sight by the PM.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I really can't see the voters touching a SNP/Labour pact with a barge pole. The SNP want to be a rival nation - it's totally at odds with the notion of HMG.
    felix said:

    Also from the podcast - Labour's route back to power is either via recovery in Scotland (which looks unlikely) or coalition with the SNP - which may be a challenging sell to the English.....and resolution of the West Lothian question will make getting more English seats all the more critical....

    Coalition with the SNP is unworkable - success for one side is failure for the other. In addition the recent GE showed a level of English impatience with our northern neighbours which isn't going away in a hurry. The discipline imposed on the SNP MPs in Westminster also comes across as almost Korean in its false unanimity - and likewise is deeply unattractive. Labour has no route back to power in its present manifestation. Middle England will see to that.
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    Mr. Mark, and rightly so.

    Right now, the Conservatives have a good situation on defections. One of two MPs was axed at the election, and the other is at odd with UKIP's leader. Defecting looks deeply unattractive, but if the Conservatives take Carswell back they give a safety net to anyone thinking of tightrope-walking to the purples.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,397

    Mr. Mark, and rightly so.

    Right now, the Conservatives have a good situation on defections. One of two MPs was axed at the election, and the other is at odd with UKIP's leader. Defecting looks deeply unattractive, but if the Conservatives take Carswell back they give a safety net to anyone thinking of tightrope-walking to the purples.

    Yep. Defecting to UKIP must be seen as a career ending choice. There will be enough tension within the PCP during the referendum without letting people think that is an option.
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    Mr. Mark, and rightly so.

    Right now, the Conservatives have a good situation on defections. One of two MPs was axed at the election, and the other is at odd with UKIP's leader. Defecting looks deeply unattractive, but if the Conservatives take Carswell back they give a safety net to anyone thinking of tightrope-walking to the purples.

    They could use his re-ratting to destroy UKIP.

    'I was wrong to defect to UKIP, a vote UKIP is a wasted vote, Dave was right, UKIP are full of loons, racists and fruitcakes'

    Luke 15:7, old bean
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    felix said:

    I see Douglas Carswell has called for Farage to go. Apparently a fresh face is required to shake off UKIPs illiberal image.

    These kipper-bashers get everywhere nowadays...

    Where did you read this? It's hardly surprising but I'm interested to see the context.

    It was on R4 Today programme.
    Thanks, what did he say?

    He said it was time for a new face after Oldham. He should also have pointed to the local by-election collapse. Fact is the party is dead in the water and will lose the referendum badly on the current trajectory.
    Polling seems to suggest momentum is increasing for leave. Would you be able to point me to some data which suggests UKIP will badly lose the referendum on whether the UK should remain a member of the EU?
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