Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The latest GOP debate changes nothing – the front runners a

2

Comments

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    The monarch is apolitical. The private audience with the PM will be a different matter.
    In time both Prince William and Prince George will have a similar role. Historically both the heir to the throne and the spouse of the Monarch have had similar access to state papers.
    For HMQ it was ever thus so most people don't have a problem with it.

    For subsequent generations, perhaps including Charles, I'm not so sure.

    Not sure about his counsel or advice, either.
    The.

    Times move on, Jack.

    In my mind is a picture, shown in all the media, of William being manhandled into a car after a night out because he is so drunk he can't stand up on his own.

    Some years ago the decision was made to demystify, demythify the Royal Family. They can't have their cake and eat it. Either they are a distant presence opining on events within their kingdom, or they are one of us (as they are trying to be now) in which case what's with the private audience with the PM?
    Young man enjoys night out shocker !!

    Look at how George III sons behaved and were reported to behave. Up market London brothels, courtesans and mistresses were the order of the day and titled bastard children were a plenty. "Times move on" is certainly true and the nature of monarchy has been a successful story of evolution.

    However the monarch's direct involvement with the Prime Minister of the day remains the same, as indeed it should. It is a typically British compromise and works well. The Queen reigns and her Prime Minister governs.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    The monarch is apolitical. The private audience with the PM will be a different matter.

    As heir to the throne I want Prince Charles to be fully informed so that on succession he will be fully appraised of the affairs of state so that he may be able to properly undertake his constitutional role to advise, counsel and warn the government of the day.

    In time both Prince William and Prince George will have a similar role. Historically both the heir to the throne and the spouse of the Monarch have had similar access to state papers.
    For HMQ it was ever thus so most people don't have a problem with it.

    For subsequent generations, perhaps including Charles, I'm not so sure.

    William - great bloke, it seems, but not unlike millions of other young men and I can see no reason, as heir to the throne (and eventual King), helicopter pilot, occasional boozer, polo player, father, Boujis-frequenter, he should get such access.

    Not sure about his counsel or advice, either.
    The Queen had access to state papers during her fathers reign as did her mother. In broad terms such regular access began with Prince Albert although there was some initial resistance to such a move.

    Whether as monarch Charles's advice and counsel would wise or not is largely irrelevant. As monarch he may give it. The government may also ignore it.

    I expect there will be a petition for William to succeed HMQ. The people who dislike Charles dislike him very much indeed.

    Constitutional hereditary monarchy is not the X Factor.

    The Prince of Wales will succeed his mother and in time Prince William will be Prince of Wales and succeed his father. Simon Cowell and his tight trousers and followers do not determine the succession.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Patrick said:

    Is there any chance whatever that Dave will complete his rounds of Euro persuasion efforts, come up empty, and decide that he will actually then join the Out camp? If he had a public epiphany and said 'I was in favour of remaining but have become persuaded that there is no political flexibility to move away from 'Ever Closer' so on balance I think it is better to leave and control our own destiny. I have always said I would take this view if my renegotiation efforts were frustrated and I intend to keep my word'.

    He'd be a hero in his own party and would then win the referendum.

    Or am I just fantasising?

    You are fantasising.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Wanderer said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
    But if those on the Left didn't react so hysterically to Trump like a pantomime baddie he probably wouldn't be so outrageous, nor doing so well.

    There's something refreshing and satisfying to many that goes with him breaking just about every political taboo there is, coupled with they don't respect those politicians and commentators who are most offended by it.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 16
    DWP
    Young people in work or full-time education is the highest on record #getbritainworking https://t.co/tSV1MCzepL

    That's 85.8%
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    @ONS · 1m1 minute ago
    #Unemployment rate 5.2% for Aug-Oct 2015, down from 6.0% a year earlier http://ow.ly/VXHkE

    @ONS · 20s21 seconds ago
    #Employment rate 73.9% for Aug-Oct 2015, highest since records began in 1971 http://ow.ly/VXHyK

    And Corbyn is still talking about the need for People's QE to 'kickstart the economy'.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451

    Mr @DecrepitJohnL's other meme is that it was YouTube and Facebook wot won it for the Tories.

    I find that quite incredible.

    Why doesn't Obama join the Tories?

    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    It was certainly Messina what won it.

    Undoubtedly.

    Nothing to do with Labour or their leader.....
    The personal abuse of the Labour leader has also been used against Blair, Brown and Corbyn, and doubtless would have been much the same under, say, David Miliband, except with bananas in place of bacon sandwiches. The crucial factor was Messina's work in dissecting and micro-targeting which voters to tell "Miliband is a twat" or "Miliband is an SNP puppet" or whatever.
    I know this has been your pet meme since the election, but the simple reality is, Labour were still unpopular and Ed was never perceived as a viable alternative to lead the country.
    Lynton Crosby agrees Facebook and YouTube was key.

    Having a good leader and good narrative also helped.
    Is there any evidence for that? There's a tendency for politicians of all stripes to think social media both representative and decisive, but other than reinforcing a bit of narrative to self-selecting audiences here and there I'm not convinced it is.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 16
    I really don't know what battle Corbyn & Comrades are fighting - I really don't.

    It's not 2008. I know he's snug in 1983, but who does he think he's talking to today?
    chestnut said:

    @ONS · 1m1 minute ago
    #Unemployment rate 5.2% for Aug-Oct 2015, down from 6.0% a year earlier http://ow.ly/VXHkE

    @ONS · 20s21 seconds ago
    #Employment rate 73.9% for Aug-Oct 2015, highest since records began in 1971 http://ow.ly/VXHyK

    And Corbyn is still talking about the need for People's QE to 'kickstart the economy'.

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,960

    Wanderer said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
    But if those on the Left didn't react so hysterically to Trump like a pantomime baddie he probably wouldn't be so outrageous, nor doing so well.

    There's something refreshing and satisfying to many that goes with him breaking just about every political taboo there is, coupled with they don't respect those politicians and commentators who are most offended by it.
    It seems odd that anybody would warm to someone aspiring for the most powerful job on the planet just because it pisses off some people you don't like.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451

    @Kevin_Maguire: Ever wonder why Michael Gove looks so glum? Headline on wife Sarah Vine's Mail column: "Sorry chaps but women love sleep FAR more than sex!"

    I'm not sure I wanted the image of those two having (or one of them attempting to have) sex in my mind.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2015 16

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    You really think that the US military would go ahead with a nuclear attack on the whim of a President? Utterly barking.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    I really don't know what battle Corbyn & Comrades are fighting - I really don't.

    It's not 2008.

    chestnut said:

    @ONS · 1m1 minute ago
    #Unemployment rate 5.2% for Aug-Oct 2015, down from 6.0% a year earlier http://ow.ly/VXHkE

    @ONS · 20s21 seconds ago
    #Employment rate 73.9% for Aug-Oct 2015, highest since records began in 1971 http://ow.ly/VXHyK

    And Corbyn is still talking about the need for People's QE to 'kickstart the economy'.

    Denial seems to be a common theme for Comrade Corbyn and his clan.

    They deny the economic recovery, they deny the meaning of electoral results, they deny public opinion on certain issues and they deny the forty year rejection of the left.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @whatukthinks: New @ComRes @OpenEurope #euref phone poll. Remain 56 (+1) Leave 35 (-1) Fwork 11-13.12.15. https://t.co/QgtDgZk6RW
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Chestnut, to be fair, Corbyn wants everything with 'the People's' in front of it.

    "It is time for the People's Free Friday Doughnut!"

    "We must have the People's Double Pay Wednesday!"

    "It is imperative we have the People's Resignation of Jeremy Corbyn!"

    Miss Plato, I think Corbyn's just bloody stupid. Any man who has to think about whether or not killing terrorists about to commit an atrocity is a good idea must have a hollow head.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362

    DWP
    Young people in work or full-time education is the highest on record #getbritainworking https://t.co/tSV1MCzepL

    That's 85.8%

    When you take "unemployment!!!!" from Labour's list of scares to run against the Tories, there isn't much left for them to scream at the voters. They become a single-issue lobby. The NHS.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451

    Wanderer said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
    But if those on the Left didn't react so hysterically to Trump like a pantomime baddie he probably wouldn't be so outrageous, nor doing so well.

    There's something refreshing and satisfying to many that goes with him breaking just about every political taboo there is, coupled with they don't respect those politicians and commentators who are most offended by it.
    It seems odd that anybody would warm to someone aspiring for the most powerful job on the planet just because it pisses off some people you don't like.
    Why? That's certainly not uncommon amongst the Left and "the rich".
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I thought Moody Slayer's tweet I linked to upthread was spot on in this regard.

    Mr. Chestnut, to be fair, Corbyn wants everything with 'the People's' in front of it.

    "It is time for the People's Free Friday Doughnut!"

    "We must have the People's Double Pay Wednesday!"

    "It is imperative we have the People's Resignation of Jeremy Corbyn!"

    Miss Plato, I think Corbyn's just bloody stupid. Any man who has to think about whether or not killing terrorists about to commit an atrocity is a good idea must have a hollow head.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    'And Corbyn is still talking about the need for People's QE to 'kickstart the economy'.

    The stars are starting to align for the tories, big time.

    City AM is constantly moaning about huge skill shortages.

    If wages start to spike for young professionals then the tories may even start to do better in London, especially if property prices stall.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I really don't know what battle Corbyn & Comrades are fighting - I really don't.

    It's not 2008.

    chestnut said:

    @ONS · 1m1 minute ago
    #Unemployment rate 5.2% for Aug-Oct 2015, down from 6.0% a year earlier http://ow.ly/VXHkE

    @ONS · 20s21 seconds ago
    #Employment rate 73.9% for Aug-Oct 2015, highest since records began in 1971 http://ow.ly/VXHyK

    And Corbyn is still talking about the need for People's QE to 'kickstart the economy'.

    Corbynistas should be fighting the battle for national relevance instead they are infighting the battle to extinguish the last vestiges of Blairism and all his works and followers.

    The Conservative government holds the field of battle with ease and the rest are involved in minor skirmishes at the edges.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Fair play to Donald, I'm beginning to like him even more
    He said he'd be dating Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter.
    That's really quite a disturbing comment
    It's a bit reminiscent of Rodrigo Borgia.
    I'm not sure I'd vote for him either :-)

    (Although if the alternative was Hillary Clinton, I'd be really struggling.)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm expecting a lot of But Osbrowne Is Crap comments.

    DWP
    Young people in work or full-time education is the highest on record #getbritainworking https://t.co/tSV1MCzepL

    That's 85.8%

    When you take "unemployment!!!!" from Labour's list of scares to run against the Tories, there isn't much left for them to scream at the voters. They become a single-issue lobby. The NHS.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Miss Plato, quite. I wouldn't judge someone based on their academic/educational background, but one need only consider the idiotic content that dribbles from Corbyn's mouth to see he's a damned fool.

    Let's negotiate with Daesh! Let's abolish the nuclear deterrent! Let's disband the army! WHat's that, Mao? Yes, good idea, let's disarm the police and disband MI5!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,271
    edited 2015 16
    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    Tte papers.
    For HMQ it was ever thus so most people don't have a problem with it.

    For subsequent generations, perhaps including Charles, I'm not so sure.

    Not sure about his counsel or advice, either.
    The.

    Times move on, Jack.

    In my mind is a picture, shown in all the media, of William being manhandled into a car after a night out because he is so drunk he can't stand up on his own.

    Some years ago the decision was made to demystify, demythify the Royal Family. They can't have their cake and eat it. Either they are a distant presence opining on events within their kingdom, or they are one of us (as they are trying to be now) in which case what's with the private audience with the PM?
    Young man enjoys night out shocker !!

    Look at how George III sons behaved and were reported to behave. Up market London brothels, courtesans and mistresses were the order of the day and titled bastard children were a plenty. "Times move on" is certainly true and the nature of monarchy has been a successful story of evolution.

    However the monarch's direct involvement with the Prime Minister of the day remains the same, as indeed it should. It is a typically British compromise and works well. The Queen reigns and her Prime Minister governs.

    You make my point for me, Jack.

    George III and George IV and William for that matter were involved in the governing of the country to a far greater extent than Charles or William are today.

    The monarchy today are titular heads and we swear allegiance to them and long may it last.

    If The Queen, or Charles after her, were to mimic a hundredth of the political activity of George III we would be in strange territory indeed. But of course they would never dream of it and hence the audience with the PM has likewise become an anachronism.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Wanderer said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
    But if those on the Left didn't react so hysterically to Trump like a pantomime baddie he probably wouldn't be so outrageous, nor doing so well.

    There's something refreshing and satisfying to many that goes with him breaking just about every political taboo there is, coupled with they don't respect those politicians and commentators who are most offended by it.
    Swap "Left" for "Right" and "Trump" for "Corbyn"
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    #Jez100 is going to be a *crying with laughter* Monday. Early contributions are great.

    Miss Plato, quite. I wouldn't judge someone based on their academic/educational background, but one need only consider the idiotic content that dribbles from Corbyn's mouth to see he's a damned fool.

    Let's negotiate with Daesh! Let's abolish the nuclear deterrent! Let's disband the army! WHat's that, Mao? Yes, good idea, let's disarm the police and disband MI5!

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    DWP
    Young people in work or full-time education is the highest on record #getbritainworking https://t.co/tSV1MCzepL

    That's 85.8%

    When you take "unemployment!!!!" from Labour's list of scares to run against the Tories, there isn't much left for them to scream at the voters. They become a single-issue lobby. The NHS.
    Lefties praying for the weather to turn cold and nasty.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    Turkish MP who said ISIS used Turkey to transit sarin into Syria is now being investigated for treason. Joins journalists who've been locked up etc.
    https://www.rt.com/news/326084-erdem-rt-interview-treason/
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Fair play to Donald, I'm beginning to like him even more
    He said he'd be dating Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter.
    That's really quite a disturbing comment
    I said it before: She'll be 35 days before the election - old enough to be VP....
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Wanderer said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
    Who would be the ideal candidate?

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Bennite2.0
    Tweet of the year. https://t.co/TSb9vewGfI
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,960

    Wanderer said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
    But if those on the Left didn't react so hysterically to Trump like a pantomime baddie he probably wouldn't be so outrageous, nor doing so well.

    There's something refreshing and satisfying to many that goes with him breaking just about every political taboo there is, coupled with they don't respect those politicians and commentators who are most offended by it.
    It seems odd that anybody would warm to someone aspiring for the most powerful job on the planet just because it pisses off some people you don't like.
    Why? That's certainly not uncommon amongst the Left and "the rich".
    My comments apply to all regardless of politics.
    It just seems really stupid to base your opinions on what would annoy a set of people you disagree with.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    watford30 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    You really think that the US military would go ahead with a nuclear attack on the whim of a President? Utterly barking.
    Errrh if you read the thread you'll see it's others fretting over Donald nuking Moscow and Beijing. I'm more concerned with his breakfast.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @ONSRichardClegg · 42m42 minutes ago
    People working full-time up 338k on the year and people working part-time up 167k on the year @ONS http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-statistics/december-2015/statistical-bulletin.html#tab-1--Employment

    @ONSRichardClegg · 39m39 minutes ago
    2.3 unemployed people per vacancy for Aug-Oct 2015, down from 2.8 a year earlier @ONS
    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-statistics/december-2015/statistical-bulletin.html

    @ONSRichardClegg · 6m6 minutes ago

    Richard Clegg Retweeted ONS
    Public sector employment accounts for 17.1% of all people in employment - lowest percentage on record

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Song, indeed. Baffles me why some people lean towards Leave, but will vote Remain because if we left it'd make Farage happy.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Hopefully Trump will react in a characteristically moderate fashion to this news

    https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/677071550311481344
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,882
    Scott_P said:

    @whatukthinks: New @ComRes @OpenEurope #euref phone poll. Remain 56 (+1) Leave 35 (-1) Fwork 11-13.12.15. https://t.co/QgtDgZk6RW

    So, the big divide between telephone and online polling remains.
  • Patrick said:

    Is there any chance whatever that Dave will complete his rounds of Euro persuasion efforts, come up empty, and decide that he will actually then join the Out camp? If he had a public epiphany and said 'I was in favour of remaining but have become persuaded that there is no political flexibility to move away from 'Ever Closer' so on balance I think it is better to leave and control our own destiny. I have always said I would take this view if my renegotiation efforts were frustrated and I intend to keep my word'.

    He'd be a hero in his own party and would then win the referendum.

    Or am I just fantasising?

    You are fantasising.
    I fantasised about a Tory majority when all said that was never going to happen. I fantasised about Corbyn leading Labour when that seemed outrageously off-the-wall. I've learned politics is becoming more unpredictable as voters get more pissed off with entrenched elites and the status quo. Dreams can and do come true.
    (Let's hope the Donald chooses Palin as his running mate - MSNBC would melt!).
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    The primary reason economic inactivity is falling is because fewer people are retired between 16 and 64.

    But maybe we should start targeting employment up to 68 in line with the pension age. After all the whole point of extending the pension age is to keep 65 year olds in work.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Casino- I don't think Patrick is far wrong. Cameron is clearly a pragmatist. He knows, like we all do, that the renegotiation is just bullshit, designed only to please his Eurosceptics.

    Cameron doesn't want to be the person to lose a European vote which will only to lead to constitutional chaos and investor panic. Initially, he will only hold the vote if he knows he is going to win.

    But, if uncertainty about the outcome prevails, and time looms on and we go on into 2017, and then it becomes increasingly clear he'll lose, he'll jump ship, and try and make the best of a very bad lot and support an out campaign. Cameron wants to be on the winning side after all. That is the nature of a pragmatist.

    Patrick said:

    Is there any chance whatever that Dave will complete his rounds of Euro persuasion efforts, come up empty, and decide that he will actually then join the Out camp? If he had a public epiphany and said 'I was in favour of remaining but have become persuaded that there is no political flexibility to move away from 'Ever Closer' so on balance I think it is better to leave and control our own destiny. I have always said I would take this view if my renegotiation efforts were frustrated and I intend to keep my word'.

    He'd be a hero in his own party and would then win the referendum.

    Or am I just fantasising?

    You are fantasising.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg

    3% was never going to last. If it falls <2% i.e. further still, then that would be cause for concern.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    JackW said:

    I really don't know what battle Corbyn & Comrades are fighting - I really don't.

    It's not 2008.

    chestnut said:

    @ONS · 1m1 minute ago
    #Unemployment rate 5.2% for Aug-Oct 2015, down from 6.0% a year earlier http://ow.ly/VXHkE

    @ONS · 20s21 seconds ago
    #Employment rate 73.9% for Aug-Oct 2015, highest since records began in 1971 http://ow.ly/VXHyK

    And Corbyn is still talking about the need for People's QE to 'kickstart the economy'.

    Corbynistas should be fighting the battle for national relevance instead they are infighting the battle to extinguish the last vestiges of Blairism and all his works and followers.

    The Conservative government holds the field of battle with ease and the rest are involved in minor skirmishes at the edges.

    I'm not sure most Corbynistas even know where the edge of the battlefield is, Jack. Is it down the pub?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 16
    Another one

    Anna Turley MP
    Sadly I have had to cancel my surgery on Friday due to a a threat & will not jeopardise safety of staff or constituents. Very sad.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Scott_P said:

    @whatukthinks: New @ComRes @OpenEurope #euref phone poll. Remain 56 (+1) Leave 35 (-1) Fwork 11-13.12.15. https://t.co/QgtDgZk6RW

    Something tells me that the online polls are having sampling problems big-time!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited 2015 16
    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    Tte papers.
    For HMQ .
    The.

    Times move on, Jack.

    Young man enjoys night out shocker !!
    You make my point for me, Jack.

    George III and George IV and William for that matter were involved in the governing of the country to a far greater extent than Charles or William are today.

    The monarchy today are titular heads and we swear allegiance to them and long may it last.

    If The Queen, or Charles after her, were to mimic a hundredth of the political activity of George III we would be in strange territory indeed. But of course they would never dream of it and hence the audience with the PM has likewise become an anachronism.
    The Prime Minister's audience of the Queen is most certainly not an "anachronism". Even allowing for an element of reverence and hyperbole all of the Queen's twelve Prime Minister's have indicated that they valued her breadth of knowledge, her wise counsel and advice.

    In addition the Queen is also Head of the Commonwealth and Supreme Governor of the Church of England in which roles she is also able to bring forth a wealth of experience.

    Notwithstanding the above surely it is better to have available such counsel to the Prime Minister than not, even if the Queen's First Lord of the Treasury may choose to ignore it, as is his right?

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    ...
    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    Not really a surprise. Obama clearly admires Cameron, and Miliband's breach of faith on the 2013 Syria vote will have convinced the US administration that he was not someone to be trusted - a point I and others made at the time.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Miss Plato, I think Corbyn's just bloody stupid. Any man who has to think about whether or not killing terrorists about to commit an atrocity is a good idea must have a hollow head.

    Now it is narrowed down to "about to commit an atrocity" which is of course not what "shoot to kill" is normally taken to mean, which is to kill rather than arrest and try suspects. As Theresa May reminded us, that is illegal. That said, Corbyn should have had the common sense to realise his words would be twisted.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg

    3% was never going to last. If it falls <2% i.e. further still, then that would be cause for concern.</p>
    It's astonishing that as the labour market tightens, wages should be so subdued. Of all the aspects of Britain's economic recovery from the great recession, the employment market is the most mysterious.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    I'm not sure most Corbynistas even know where the edge of the battlefield is, Jack. Is it down the pub?

    It's at a Turkish restaurant near Southwark tube station.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 16
    Oliver Cooper
    Another 90,000 jobs were created in the last month in the UK: 94% of them full-time.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    ...
    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    Not really a surprise. Obama clearly admires Cameron, and Miliband's breach of faith on the 2013 Syria vote will have convinced the US administration that he was not someone to be trusted - a point I and others made at the time.
    Isn't (or wasn't) David Cameron's erstwhile guru Steve Hilton also tied up with the Democrats?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg

    Not bad when there's zero inflation.

    Earnings will be rising more quickly over the next couple of years, though, both because of the tightening labour market and because of Osborne's big hike to the minimum wage.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Shepperton Town (Spelthorne) result:
    CON: 62.0% (+6.1)
    UKIP: 13.0% (-5.4)
    LDEM: 11.1% (-0.8)
    LAB: 8.9% (-4.8)
    GRN: 4.9% (+4.9)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    NewsSense™ Alert

    @George_Osborne: Excellent stats this morning: a record employment rate (73.9%), unemployment & youth unemployment rates fall to 9 year lows & wages rising
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg

    3% was never going to last. If it falls <2% i.e. further still, then that would be cause for concern.</p>
    It's astonishing that as the labour market tightens, wages should be so subdued. Of all the aspects of Britain's economic recovery from the great recession, the employment market is the most mysterious.
    Yes, given we would expect an increase in number of hours worked.

    If it weren't for that, I think real pay increases of 2-3% are not uncommon even at a time of rising employment (assuming we haven't yet exhausted capacity completely).
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Prosperity is a thing of the past. People in crappy jobs, for crappy money, working longer and indebted.

    By the way I no more blame the Tories than Labour for this poor state of affairs. The attachment to neo liberal capitalism from the mid 1970's onwards was always going to catch up with us, and leave the UK as a place with high employment built on shit productivity, and shit wages.

    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Oliver Cooper
    Another 90,000 jobs were created in the last month in the UK: 94% of them full-time.

    How are things looking in Northern Britain, under the SNP? Maybe Sturgeon could employ those out of work in an emergency bridge rebuilding programme.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Will this shift the figures for staying in?

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-6346_en.htm

    A para military force for the EU to cross member states' borders. Will this be one of Dave's cast iron opt outs?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Isn't (or wasn't) David Cameron's erstwhile guru Steve Hilton also tied up with the Democrats?

    Not as far as I know, but he may well be.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Nigella's sisters are Thomasina and Horatia. Who were Thomas and Horace?

    At least he didn't call her Donalda. I can't get over Nigella Lawson. Nigella??

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg

    3% was never going to last. If it falls <2% i.e. further still, then that would be cause for concern.</p>
    It's astonishing that as the labour market tightens, wages should be so subdued. Of all the aspects of Britain's economic recovery from the great recession, the employment market is the most mysterious.
    I suspect that a combination of rising tax free incomes and plummeting mortgage costs has been the key to reducing the need for gross pay rises.

    A reduction in tax credits and a rise in interest rates will start to change the dynamic.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    dr_spyn said:

    Will this shift the figures for staying in?

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-6346_en.htm

    A para military force for the EU to cross member states' borders. Will this be one of Dave's cast iron opt outs?

    Err, you do realise we're not in Schengen?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    watford30 said:

    How are things looking in Northern Britain, under the SNP? Maybe Sturgeon could employ those out of work in an emergency bridge rebuilding programme.

    @ABritView: Interesting letter from Tam Dayell in The Scotsman today regarding the SNP farce over the #FRB https://t.co/ySfFQfjMin
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
    Who would be the ideal candidate?

    I don't think there's an *ideal* libertarian candidate in the field (or, possibly, the world) but Rand Paul would be a suggestion.

    My point is that Trump is an anti-libertarian. He's an authoritarian weirdo. Libertarians don't build walls across continents to stop people moving around.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    It's not Alistair when you take into account poor productivity, weak contracts, more people working for themselves and paying themselves a pittance, the squeeze on public employees pay- it is truly wondrous that we have any wage growth at all. One thing is for certain- wage growth in the UK will be weak for a generation to come. 80's, 90's and naughties prosperity is a thing of the past.

    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg

    3% was never going to last. If it falls <2% i.e. further still, then that would be cause for concern.</p>
    It's astonishing that as the labour market tightens, wages should be so subdued. Of all the aspects of Britain's economic recovery from the great recession, the employment market is the most mysterious.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    watford30 said:

    How are things looking in Northern Britain, under the SNP? Maybe Sturgeon could employ those out of work in an emergency bridge rebuilding programme.

    @ABritView: Interesting letter from Tam Dayell in The Scotsman today regarding the SNP farce over the #FRB https://t.co/ySfFQfjMin
    The SNP cultists will brand him a traitor. 'Tam's a Tory stooge, not a True Scot'
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited 2015 16
    Pay By Sector (annual rises-3mth average)

    Construction 6.1%
    Retail/hospitality 3.3%
    Services 2.3%
    Finance/Business 1.8%
    Public Sector 1.6%
    Manufacturing 1.5%
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,271
    edited 2015 16
    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    Tte papers.
    For HMQ .
    The.

    Times move on, Jack.

    Young man enjoys night out shocker !!
    You make my point for me, Jack.
    chronism.
    The Prime Minister's audience of the Queen is most certainly not an "anachronism". Even allowing for an element of reverence and hyperbole all of the Queen's twelve Prime Minister's have indicated that they valued her breadth of knowledge, her wise counsel and advice.

    In addition the Queen is also Head of the Commonwealth and Supreme Governor of the Church of England in which role she is also able to bring forth a wealth of experience.

    Notwithstanding the above surely it is better to have available such counsel to the Prime Minister than not, even if the Queen's First Lord of the Treasury may choose to ignore it, as is his right?

    Like much of the monarchy it works although if you were asked to sketch it out from scratch you probably wouldn't end up with what we've got now.

    But it works, I have zero issue with that.

    Nor do I have a problem with a PM seeking counsel from The Queen or indeed any wise old soul (no offence..). But we are coming up to an epochal change, although hopefully not for many years yet. At this stage, it would be right to consider whether tweaks could be made. One tweak might be the weekly audience.

    We mentioned times change and how the monarchy is seeking to become more "normal". One small example will suffice. The Prince of Wales presides over a successful-ish business (Duchy Originals, profitable since a tie up with Waitrose). He runs this business for all the best reasons, but he is a businessman.

    Do we really think a businessman with, by definition, a vested interest in policy, should be giving counsel to the PM on anything and do we think that Charles' thinking is as independent as The Queen's is today?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548

    TOPPING said:



    Do you think the Guardian is an example of our "gloriously unfree media", Nick?

    Serious reply FWIW: I wouldn't say unfree, but yes, it shares in the general crapness of our media compared with e.g. the German and even the US media. It is very difficult to get a serious discussion in the UK media - they always focus on a sensational trivial remark from an otherwise interesting interview (the "stab him from the front" example that he gives is a good one) or they start from the position "I'm going to try to persuade readers of a point of view" (Ambrose Evans and Polly Toynbee are examples). The sort of "I'm going to explain the situation and set out the pros and cons" piece that you get in the Frankfurter Allgemeine, the Neue Zuercher Zeitung or even the Washington Post almost doesn't happen in Britain. We think it's boring and deride it.

    The effect is that politicians become extremely defensive - the main priority in an interview is to get one line across and not screw up with some comment that can be taken out of context. The victim is the level of public debate, which is seriously awful.

    The sorts of articles you are talking about, Nick, do exist but they tend to be found in magazines and some of the better blogs.

    One of the problems, though, is that politicians are not at all keen on having the facts ferreted out. Your own current hero, Corbyn, has complained about journalists digging out facts about what he has / has not done and has and has not said. This is quite different from complaints about the opinions expressed about such facts.

    So if the media is "crap" as you say politicians have something to do with it. One reason why we may focus on throwaway comments is that they do their level best to avoid us having facts. Beams and motes, Nick. Beams and motes.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    IIRC Scotland employed went up 8k
    watford30 said:

    Oliver Cooper
    Another 90,000 jobs were created in the last month in the UK: 94% of them full-time.

    How are things looking in Northern Britain, under the SNP? Maybe Sturgeon could employ those out of work in an emergency bridge rebuilding programme.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'What odds are you offering on your suggestion of the referendum being cancelled ?'

    For the avoidance of doubt, what I suggested was that if the polls turned strongly towards Leave that is what the FO and the EU would push for - not that it was something likely to happen.

    There is of course a further possibility - that the UK is asked to vote again on a slightly less homeopathic 'renegotiation' package after voting 'Leave' initially.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    On the other hand, earnings don't look so good:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWVyfgbW4AAkWUK.jpg

    3% was never going to last. If it falls <2% i.e. further still, then that would be cause for concern.</p>
    It's astonishing that as the labour market tightens, wages should be so subdued. Of all the aspects of Britain's economic recovery from the great recession, the employment market is the most mysterious.
    The labour market is hardy tightening when about 300,000 new people are being added to it each year.

    As new jobs are being created so new people are arriving to do them. The result is wages stay flatter than they would otherwise be, investment doesn't happen because it is cheaper to employ people than spend money on machines and innovation, productivity stagnates and, although the economy grows, actual wealth stagnates but becomes more concentrated in the hands of the already wealthy.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited 2015 16
    TOPPING said:

    We mentioned times change and how the monarchy is seeking to become more "normal". One small example will suffice. The Prince of Wales presides over a successful-ish business (Duchy Originals, profitable since a tie up with Waitrose). He runs this business for all the best reasons, but he is a businessman.

    Do we really think a businessman with, by definition, a vested interest in policy, should be giving counsel to the PM on anything and do we think that Charles' thinking is as independent as The Queen's is today?

    It's a bit of a stretch to say he's a 'businessman with.. a vested interest in policy'. He's not involved in running the business (Waitrose runs it), and he has no financial interest in it:

    Duchy Originals Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary company of The Prince's Charities Foundation and donates to the charity from its profits.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waitrose_Duchy_Organic
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
    Who would be the ideal candidate?

    I don't think there's an *ideal* libertarian candidate in the field (or, possibly, the world) but Rand Paul would be a suggestion.

    My point is that Trump is an anti-libertarian. He's an authoritarian weirdo. Libertarians don't build walls across continents to stop people moving around.
    Yes I take your point and I've read about Rand Paul.

    Being libertarian, like every other label, is open to interpretation, immigration has to be controlled in countries that pay higher benefits than others. The first (I might argue only) role of govt is to protect it's citizens, a large part of that is border security. There are people who don't agree with our idea of civilisation and wish to harm us, the govt's role is to prevent that happening. That isn't at odds with being libertarian.

    What is at odds is discrimination along lines of nationality or religion.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    edited 2015 16
    Hoax !
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    watford30 said:

    Scott_P said:

    watford30 said:

    How are things looking in Northern Britain, under the SNP? Maybe Sturgeon could employ those out of work in an emergency bridge rebuilding programme.

    @ABritView: Interesting letter from Tam Dayell in The Scotsman today regarding the SNP farce over the #FRB https://t.co/ySfFQfjMin
    The SNP cultists will brand him a traitor. 'Tam's a Tory stooge, not a True Scot'
    According to Dair - it's all the fault of the LDs...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302

    dr_spyn said:

    Will this shift the figures for staying in?

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-6346_en.htm

    A para military force for the EU to cross member states' borders. Will this be one of Dave's cast iron opt outs?

    Err, you do realise we're not in Schengen?
    Even if we are not, I'm not comfortable with a supranational EU border force, are you?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,550
    watford30 said:

    Oliver Cooper
    Another 90,000 jobs were created in the last month in the UK: 94% of them full-time.

    How are things looking in Northern Britain, under the SNP? Maybe Sturgeon could employ those out of work in an emergency bridge rebuilding programme.
    Unemployment down, employment up. Must be that £200bn oil boom finally kicking in.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Will this shift the figures for staying in?

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-6346_en.htm

    A para military force for the EU to cross member states' borders. Will this be one of Dave's cast iron opt outs?

    Err, you do realise we're not in Schengen?
    Even if we are not, I'm not comfortable with a supranational EU border force, are you?
    It's a Schengen border force. If the Schengen countries want that, that's up to them. They need to do something to deal with the mess they've created. I don't know whether it requires unanimous consent of the Schengen countries, but I imagine it does.

    There is, however, an interesting UK angle to this: this is a Commission proposal, eliding the EU with Schengen. It's similar to the problem of Commission proposals eliding the EU with the Eurozone. This is a major structural flaw in the EU institutions, and to my mind the key issue of the renegotiation.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    edited 2015 16

    @Kevin_Maguire: Ever wonder why Michael Gove looks so glum? Headline on wife Sarah Vine's Mail column: "Sorry chaps but women love sleep FAR more than sex!"

    So do men.

    But I see that she's been scheduling sex. This is called "doing it wrong".
    The older I've got, the more I view sleep now as I did sex in my youth.

    You should have seen me last night, I was at it for six straight hours.
    I must say, I tend to the opposite view.

    But that's enough about Paris.......

    :wink:
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @TOPPING

    I think you're dancing on a pinhead, albeit most dexterously. Perhaps a spot on "Strictly Come PB Dancing" beckons?!?

    The income and business activities of the Duchy of Cornwall have been evolving for centuries and I don't think many subjects regarded the Queen as some thrusting Alan Sugar figure when she ascended the throne. That the Duchy of Cornwall has branched out at the margin is hardly a move into the FT100.

    When the Prince of Wales succeeds his "interests" will be subsumed into a cloak of mystery that befits the monarch. The media may speculate and the people may wonder but we will never know for certain the discussions and most recent views of the new King.

    At this time the King will take on the role of his mother and his son that which his father fulfilled as Prince of Wales and so on and so forth down the centuries.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,550
    edited 2015 16
    Scott_P said:

    watford30 said:

    How are things looking in Northern Britain, under the SNP? Maybe Sturgeon could employ those out of work in an emergency bridge rebuilding programme.

    @ABritView: Interesting letter from Tam Dayell in The Scotsman today regarding the SNP farce over the #FRB https://t.co/ySfFQfjMin
    Headline: 'Shame on Holyrood for passing buck on Forth bridge fiasco'

    Anti devolutionist slags devolved parliament, quelle surprise.

    You need to get with the Yoon programme - 'We have to make devolution stronger and better!'

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598
    Interesting article that I mostly disagree with (mainly because I think it sees things too much through a prism of past society), but others here will like - it's worth thinking about whether one agrees or not:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/12/what-does-labour-stand-for-when-it-is-no-longer-the-party-of-the-working-class/
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Will this shift the figures for staying in?

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-6346_en.htm

    A para military force for the EU to cross member states' borders. Will this be one of Dave's cast iron opt outs?

    Err, you do realise we're not in Schengen?
    Even if we are not, I'm not comfortable with a supranational EU border force, are you?
    It's a Schengen border force. If the Schengen countries want that, that's up to them. They need to do something to deal with the mess they've created. I don't know whether it requires unanimous consent of the Schengen countries, but I imagine it does.

    There is, however, an interesting UK angle to this: this is a Commission proposal, eliding the EU with Schengen. It's similar to the problem of Commission proposals eliding the EU with the Eurozone. This is a major structural flaw in the EU institutions, and to my mind the key issue of the renegotiation.
    Perhaps they'll station some of the force at Calais

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,742
    Cyclefree said:

    @Kevin_Maguire: Ever wonder why Michael Gove looks so glum? Headline on wife Sarah Vine's Mail column: "Sorry chaps but women love sleep FAR more than sex!"

    So do men.

    But I see that she's been scheduling sex. This is called "doing it wrong".
    The older I've got, the more I view sleep now as I did sex in my youth.

    You should have seen me last night, I was at it for six straight hours.
    I must say, I tend to the opposite view.

    But that's enough about Paris.......

    :wink:
    Madam! There are gentleman of a certain age present here on this website and posts like that will not help their health.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,742
    December political monitor from Ipsos-MORI has
    CON 38 -3
    LAB 31 -3
    LD 9 +2
    UKIP 9 +2
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,742
    The survey found that the “Stay” campaign has a clear lead of 53 per cent to 36 per cent, with 11 per cent don’t knows.

    Excluding the don’t knows, the verdict is currently 60-40 to stay in. However, the gap has narrowed dramatically from the emphatic 69-31 seen by Ipsos MORI in June, which means neither side dare relax.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/fewer-than-a-fifth-think-pm-can-meet-eu-reform-goals-a3138481.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,742
    Opinion is split over whether to let 16 and 17-year-olds vote in the referendum, an idea fought over in the House of Lords.

    People’s answers appeared to depend on how the question was asked. When asked if the voting age should be reduced to 16, some 56 per cent opposed and 37 per cent supported.

    But asking the question in terms of “giving 16 and 17-year-olds the right to vote”, the results flipped to 52 per cent in favour and 41 per cent opposed.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Opinion is split over whether to let 16 and 17-year-olds vote in the referendum, an idea fought over in the House of Lords.

    People’s answers appeared to depend on how the question was asked. When asked if the voting age should be reduced to 16, some 56 per cent opposed and 37 per cent supported.

    But asking the question in terms of “giving 16 and 17-year-olds the right to vote”, the results flipped to 52 per cent in favour and 41 per cent opposed.

    Perhaps we should deny the vote to people who think there's a difference between the two questions.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,270
    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Will this shift the figures for staying in?

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-6346_en.htm

    A para military force for the EU to cross member states' borders. Will this be one of Dave's cast iron opt outs?

    Err, you do realise we're not in Schengen?
    Even if we are not, I'm not comfortable with a supranational EU border force, are you?
    Believe David Cameron has offered UK forces to it. Maybe trying to be conciliatory to help in the negotiations
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750

    Opinion is split over whether to let 16 and 17-year-olds vote in the referendum, an idea fought over in the House of Lords.

    People’s answers appeared to depend on how the question was asked. When asked if the voting age should be reduced to 16, some 56 per cent opposed and 37 per cent supported.

    But asking the question in terms of “giving 16 and 17-year-olds the right to vote”, the results flipped to 52 per cent in favour and 41 per cent opposed.

    Perhaps we should deny the vote to people who think there's a difference between the two questions.
    That'll be the same % who vote in or out according to what Dave says :) ?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :+1:

    I'm just very pleased this nonsense has been kicked into touch again. The Times leader got universally panned yesterday as obvious gerrymandering for Remain.

    Opinion is split over whether to let 16 and 17-year-olds vote in the referendum, an idea fought over in the House of Lords.

    People’s answers appeared to depend on how the question was asked. When asked if the voting age should be reduced to 16, some 56 per cent opposed and 37 per cent supported.

    But asking the question in terms of “giving 16 and 17-year-olds the right to vote”, the results flipped to 52 per cent in favour and 41 per cent opposed.

    Perhaps we should deny the vote to people who think there's a difference between the two questions.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm totally against it - but if we offer 10 troops, well it's box ticked.

    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Will this shift the figures for staying in?

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-6346_en.htm

    A para military force for the EU to cross member states' borders. Will this be one of Dave's cast iron opt outs?

    Err, you do realise we're not in Schengen?
    Even if we are not, I'm not comfortable with a supranational EU border force, are you?
    Believe David Cameron has offered UK forces to it. Maybe trying to be conciliatory to help in the negotiations
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    edited 2015 16
    I'm in favour of us sending some troops to patrol the EU border tbh, and I'll be voting out. Even when we're out it's still a preliminary first line of border security for us.

    Take it out the foreign aid budget though, it serves what should be the same purpose - protecting Britain's interests abroad.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    WTF

    Indy Voices
    We did it for the USSR - now it's time to grant Isis diplomatic recognition https://t.co/BC0px06tge
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,742
    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Will this shift the figures for staying in?

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-6346_en.htm

    A para military force for the EU to cross member states' borders. Will this be one of Dave's cast iron opt outs?

    Err, you do realise we're not in Schengen?
    Even if we are not, I'm not comfortable with a supranational EU border force, are you?
    i) People complain about the migration crisis

    ii) EU does something to try and deal with it

    iii) People in i) Complain about the EU trying to do something with the migration crisis

    The EU can't win. Remember the EU won a Nobel Peace Prize, they know how to keep the peace.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Miss Plato, offering one octogenarian would be excessive. It's more rancid manoeuvring by the crapulent eunuchs of Brussels.
This discussion has been closed.