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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The latest GOP debate changes nothing – the front runners a

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited December 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The latest GOP debate changes nothing – the front runners are still Trump, Rubio and Cruz

I didn’t stay up for the latest GOP debate overnight and have yet to watch the entire event. So my comments here are based on the betting markets and what respected US commentators thought.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,067
    First??????
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited December 2015
    Secundus.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    So not worth disturbing my beauty sleep for then?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Has David Miliband been in the US long enough to be able to throw his hat in the ring?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,601
    edited December 2015
    Why doesn't Obama join the Tories?

    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh
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    TOPPING said:

    Has David Miliband been in the US long enough to be able to throw his hat in the ring?

    Well it doesn't look like there'll be a Labour party left for him to rejoin.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    It looks like the debate has strengthened Trump if anything and if Rubio has come out looking weak on immigration that will hit him with the GOP base.
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    Good morning, everyone.

    Debates are overrated.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    Thanks again to Speedy for the excellent pithy summaries last night. OGH's conclusions sound right though I wonder if it isn't tuning into Cruz/Trump with Rubio fading.

    O/T: a wistful piece by a Corbyn fan on how difficult it is to discuss him sensibly - though I think it's a particular example of a general media phenomenon:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/15/balanced-debate-jeremy-corbyn-labour-media-attacks
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    Poor compouter

    The book argues: “If we assume the polls were as wrong throughout the parliament as they were on election day and adjust the voting intention polling data accordingly, then the polling crossover [ie Conservatives overtaking Labour] occurred sometime around July 2013, with the Conservative lead slowly but steadily increasing after that. Indeed Labour led and probably only narrowly for around 18 months between roughly March 2012 and July 2013.”
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    TOPPING said:

    Has David Miliband been in the US long enough to be able to throw his hat in the ring?

    Well it doesn't look like there'll be a Labour party left for him to rejoin.
    I meant for US president...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    The Times reports today that even if Cameron fails to block migrants receiving in-work benefits for four years In would still narrowly win EU ref according to a Comres poll for Open Europe. However if he fails to secure protections for countries outside the eurozone that would lead to an Out win
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited December 2015
    TOPPING said:

    Has David Miliband been in the US long enough to be able to throw his hat in the ring?

    He was not born in the U.S. so can never be president unlike Boris
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    Thanks again to Speedy for the excellent pithy summaries last night. OGH's conclusions sound right though I wonder if it isn't tuning into Cruz/Trump with Rubio fading.

    O/T: a wistful piece by a Corbyn fan on how difficult it is to discuss him sensibly - though I think it's a particular example of a general media phenomenon:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/15/balanced-debate-jeremy-corbyn-labour-media-attacks

    Do you think the Guardian is an example of our "gloriously unfree media", Nick?
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    Oh, and the final part of my sci-fi serial, Zodiac Eclipse, is now up:
    http://www.kraxon.com/zodiac-eclipse-revenge/
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Donald Trump will pay Bush to stay in the race :D
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    HYUFD said:



    TOPPING said:

    Has David Miliband been in the US long enough to be able to throw his hat in the ring?

    He was not born in the U.S. so can never be president unlike Boris
    Hasn't Boris handed back his US citizenship recently? To prove he is fully committed to UK etc etc.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,207

    Poor compouter

    The book argues: “If we assume the polls were as wrong throughout the parliament as they were on election day and adjust the voting intention polling data accordingly, then the polling crossover [ie Conservatives overtaking Labour] occurred sometime around July 2013, with the Conservative lead slowly but steadily increasing after that. Indeed Labour led and probably only narrowly for around 18 months between roughly March 2012 and July 2013.”

    I think that's a dangerous assumption to make. I suspect crossover occurred later than that and the pollsters just didn't believe what they were seeing.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited December 2015

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
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    Why doesn't Obama join the Tories?

    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    It was certainly Messina what won it.

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167

    HYUFD said:



    TOPPING said:

    Has David Miliband been in the US long enough to be able to throw his hat in the ring?

    He was not born in the U.S. so can never be president unlike Boris
    Hasn't Boris handed back his US citizenship recently? To prove he is fully committed to UK etc etc.
    He could take it up again but you cannot change your birthplace
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



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    Pulpstar said:

    Donald Trump will pay Bush to stay in the race :D

    Isn't Bush said to have squillions in PAC funds? If so, is he planning a media (and ground war) blitz on Super Tuesday?

    What happens when he drops out? Is the money returned to donors, kept by Bush for next time, or inherited by the party?
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    FPT

    According to the new Kavanagh and Cowley book, Obama sent Jim Messina to the Conservatives with the aim of stopping Miliband's Labour.


    Why doesn't President Obama just go and JOIN THE TORIES
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    TOPPING said:



    Do you think the Guardian is an example of our "gloriously unfree media", Nick?

    Serious reply FWIW: I wouldn't say unfree, but yes, it shares in the general crapness of our media compared with e.g. the German and even the US media. It is very difficult to get a serious discussion in the UK media - they always focus on a sensational trivial remark from an otherwise interesting interview (the "stab him from the front" example that he gives is a good one) or they start from the position "I'm going to try to persuade readers of a point of view" (Ambrose Evans and Polly Toynbee are examples). The sort of "I'm going to explain the situation and set out the pros and cons" piece that you get in the Frankfurter Allgemeine, the Neue Zuercher Zeitung or even the Washington Post almost doesn't happen in Britain. We think it's boring and deride it.

    The effect is that politicians become extremely defensive - the main priority in an interview is to get one line across and not screw up with some comment that can be taken out of context. The victim is the level of public debate, which is seriously awful.
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    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    I thought you wanted him to nuke the "hand-wringers"...

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    Why doesn't Obama join the Tories?

    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    It was certainly Messina what won it.

    Undoubtedly.

    Nothing to do with Labour or their leader.....
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    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.

    The way a Trump presidency approached a wide range of foreign policy issues would have a major and direct impact on all of us; as would his management of the US economy. he may not press the nuclear button - though you would not put it past him - but he can do immense and long-lasting damage without getting to that point.

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited December 2015

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited December 2015

    TOPPING said:



    Do you think the Guardian is an example of our "gloriously unfree media", Nick?

    Serious reply FWIW: I wouldn't say unfree, but yes, it shares in the general crapness of our media compared with e.g. the German and even the US media. It is very difficult to get a serious discussion in the UK media - they always focus on a sensational trivial remark from an otherwise interesting interview (the "stab him from the front" example that he gives is a good one) or they start from the position "I'm going to try to persuade readers of a point of view" (Ambrose Evans and Polly Toynbee are examples). The sort of "I'm going to explain the situation and set out the pros and cons" piece that you get in the Frankfurter Allgemeine, the Neue Zuercher Zeitung or even the Washington Post almost doesn't happen in Britain. We think it's boring and deride it.

    The effect is that politicians become extremely defensive - the main priority in an interview is to get one line across and not screw up with some comment that can be taken out of context. The victim is the level of public debate, which is seriously awful.
    don't disagree and fwiw from my point of view when I respond to eg. Guardian surveys I always tell them not to conflate opinion with editorial. The sort of "on the one hand..." kind of piece is tricky if you allow your editorial opinions to encroach.

    Plus of course please don't fall into the trap (even if you are using it as a shorthand) of criticising the public, which is what a criticism of "public debate" of course is doing.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited December 2015

    Good morning, everyone.

    Debates are overrated.

    Are they?. I saw some polling for ITV that said the debates over here were crucial... and I think that's right.. It showed Miliband up as a dud and not someone the voters thought as Prime Ministerial calibre, and eventually they will do the same for Trump.

    From what I have read here, it would seem that Trump is all blather and no substance.. pandering to peoples worst fears. He could be the Daily Mail in human form.
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Depends what your priorities are. Maybe upsetting people who wring their hands is priority number one.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    If Trump, Rubio and Cruz are the front runners, that means that Rubio and Cruz are the front runners. Trump is not a front runner. Trump is not going to be the candidate. Trump is not going to be the President. Trump is a giga-booliak. If the GOP actually does the most stupid thing it's ever done in decades and selects Trump as its candidate for POTUS, we will have to interpret that to mean that it does not want to win the Presidency for the next four years, and, presumably, wants Hillary Clinton to win.

    Perhaps the members of the Republican Party are anticipating more fun from the prospect of impeaching Hillary for various misdemeanours than from the prospect of a Trump presidency.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    TOPPING said:



    Do you think the Guardian is an example of our "gloriously unfree media", Nick?

    Serious reply FWIW: I wouldn't say unfree, but yes, it shares in the general crapness of our media compared with e.g. the German and even the US media. It is very difficult to get a serious discussion in the UK media - they always focus on a sensational trivial remark from an otherwise interesting interview (the "stab him from the front" example that he gives is a good one) or they start from the position "I'm going to try to persuade readers of a point of view" (Ambrose Evans and Polly Toynbee are examples). The sort of "I'm going to explain the situation and set out the pros and cons" piece that you get in the Frankfurter Allgemeine, the Neue Zuercher Zeitung or even the Washington Post almost doesn't happen in Britain. We think it's boring and deride it.

    The effect is that politicians become extremely defensive - the main priority in an interview is to get one line across and not screw up with some comment that can be taken out of context. The victim is the level of public debate, which is seriously awful.
    Oh come off it Nick, you only have to watch PMQs to see the standard of debate amongst MPs. Stop blaming the media for the uselessness of politicians, you only have yourselves to blame for the way the public views you.

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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'd agree there - and it did for the other candidates in the Labour leadership race. Burnham at his worst flippy-floppy and Yvette saying nothing.

    Since the Tories don't run elections like this - I wonder if they'll be another conference speech contest as per 2005 or a TV head to head or a whole new system with more than two final candidates

    Good morning, everyone.

    Debates are overrated.

    Are they?. I saw some polling for ITV that said the debates over here were crucial... and I think that's right.. It showed Miliband up as a dud and not someone the voters thought as Prime Ministerial calibre, and eventually they will do the same for Trump.

    From what I have read here, it would seem that Trump is all blather and no substance.. pandering to peoples worst fears. He could be the Daily Mail in human form.
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    @Kevin_Maguire: Ever wonder why Michael Gove looks so glum? Headline on wife Sarah Vine's Mail column: "Sorry chaps but women love sleep FAR more than sex!"
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    Why doesn't Obama join the Tories?

    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    It was certainly Messina what won it.

    Undoubtedly.

    Nothing to do with Labour or their leader.....
    The personal abuse of the Labour leader has also been used against Blair, Brown and Corbyn, and doubtless would have been much the same under, say, David Miliband, except with bananas in place of bacon sandwiches. The crucial factor was Messina's work in dissecting and micro-targeting which voters to tell "Miliband is a twat" or "Miliband is an SNP puppet" or whatever.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    So Maguire reads the Mail...thought so.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    Of course it is unlikely but Trump would be the president most likely to press the nuclear button of any since Hiroshima
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Depends what your priorities are. Maybe upsetting people who wring their hands is priority number one.
    Yep nuclear Armageddon just a minor inconvenience
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Comres polling puts the swing at 11% if Cameron does not get the welfare change he seeks, turning a big Remain into a narrow Leave
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    Trump ain't gonna be president, and Armageddon sick and tired of people pretending he might.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    You know you want to...

    JeremyCorbyn4PM
    This Monday will mark 100 days since JC was elected leader. What was your highlight? Use #jez100 we'll RT our fav https://t.co/k65j18CUnE
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    TOPPING said:



    Do you think the Guardian is an example of our "gloriously unfree media", Nick?

    Serious reply FWIW: I wouldn't say unfree, but yes, it shares in the general crapness of our media compared with e.g. the German and even the US media. It is very difficult to get a serious discussion in the UK media - they always focus on a sensational trivial remark from an otherwise interesting interview (the "stab him from the front" example that he gives is a good one) or they start from the position "I'm going to try to persuade readers of a point of view" (Ambrose Evans and Polly Toynbee are examples). The sort of "I'm going to explain the situation and set out the pros and cons" piece that you get in the Frankfurter Allgemeine, the Neue Zuercher Zeitung or even the Washington Post almost doesn't happen in Britain. We think it's boring and deride it.

    The effect is that politicians become extremely defensive - the main priority in an interview is to get one line across and not screw up with some comment that can be taken out of context. The victim is the level of public debate, which is seriously awful.
    Oh come off it Nick, you only have to watch PMQs to see the standard of debate amongst MPs. Stop blaming the media for the uselessness of politicians, you only have yourselves to blame for the way the public views you.

    That's not entirely fair. PMQs is a spectator sport for the politically obsessed. It's not supposed to be high quality debate.
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    Off-topic [for a change]: logged in to Weebly to update my site, and the layout's changed. Can't find how to log-out... any ideas?
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
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    @Kevin_Maguire: Ever wonder why Michael Gove looks so glum? Headline on wife Sarah Vine's Mail column: "Sorry chaps but women love sleep FAR more than sex!"

    So do men.

    But I see that she's been scheduling sex. This is called "doing it wrong".
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    @tnewtondunn: The excellent @Dannythefink suggests David Cameron should make Boris Foreign Sec in exchange for his EU referendum support. He may have to.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Fair play to Donald, I'm beginning to like him even more
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited December 2015

    Why doesn't Obama join the Tories?

    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    It was certainly Messina what won it.

    Undoubtedly.

    Nothing to do with Labour or their leader.....
    The personal abuse of the Labour leader has also been used against Blair, Brown and Corbyn, and doubtless would have been much the same under, say, David Miliband, except with bananas in place of bacon sandwiches. The crucial factor was Messina's work in dissecting and micro-targeting which voters to tell "Miliband is a twat" or "Miliband is an SNP puppet" or whatever.
    I know this has been your pet meme since the election, but the simple reality is, Labour were still unpopular and Ed was never perceived as a viable alternative to lead the country.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    Re the GOP debates - there was a clip on Sky earlier with all the candidates either agreeing the Donald or deliberately avoiding taking him on directly - a variant of I Agree With Nick meme, since attacking him isn't working.

    I scanned @Speedy's comments but didn't pick it up there - anyone else notice this?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,980
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    If one were unlucky enough to survive, rationing a bit of rat or diseased dog for supper would be uppermost in one's mind.
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    @Kevin_Maguire: Ever wonder why Michael Gove looks so glum? Headline on wife Sarah Vine's Mail column: "Sorry chaps but women love sleep FAR more than sex!"

    So do men.

    But I see that she's been scheduling sex. This is called "doing it wrong".
    The older I've got, the more I view sleep now as I did sex in my youth.

    You should have seen me last night, I was at it for six straight hours.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Mr @DecrepitJohnL's other meme is that it was YouTube and Facebook wot won it for the Tories.

    I find that quite incredible.

    Why doesn't Obama join the Tories?

    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    It was certainly Messina what won it.

    Undoubtedly.

    Nothing to do with Labour or their leader.....
    The personal abuse of the Labour leader has also been used against Blair, Brown and Corbyn, and doubtless would have been much the same under, say, David Miliband, except with bananas in place of bacon sandwiches. The crucial factor was Messina's work in dissecting and micro-targeting which voters to tell "Miliband is a twat" or "Miliband is an SNP puppet" or whatever.
    I know this has been your pet meme since the election, but the simple reality is, Labour were still unpopular and Ed was never perceived as a viable alternative to lead the country.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Donald Trump's wives have been mostly immigrants, haven't they?

    Immigrants: doing jobs normal Americans won't.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,980

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Fair play to Donald, I'm beginning to like him even more
    He said he'd be dating Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    The monarch is apolitical. The private audience with the PM will be a different matter.

    As heir to the throne I want Prince Charles to be fully informed so that on succession he will be fully appraised of the affairs of state so that he may be able to properly undertake his constitutional role to advise, counsel and warn the government of the day.

    In time both Prince William and Prince George will have a similar role. Historically both the heir to the throne and the spouse of the Monarch have had similar access to state papers.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited December 2015
    I missed this a few weeks ago.

    Reasons to vote OUT #327:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-didn-t-think-ttip-could-get-any-scarier-but-then-i-spoke-to-the-eu-official-in-charge-of-it-a6690591.html
    I was recently granted a rare glimpse behind the official façade of the EU when I met with its Trade Commissioner in her Brussels office. I was there to discuss the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), the controversial treaty currently under negotiation between the EU and the USA.

    Yet when I asked the trade commissioner how she could continue her persistent promotion of the deal in the face of such massive public opposition, her response came back icy cold: “I do not take my mandate from the European people.”
    and then today..

    Reasons to vote OUT #328:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12052102/EU-plan-to-deploy-armed-guards-on-borders-against-states-will.html
    British officials could take part in EU plan for powerful new border guard with powers to deploy without a nation's consent, sparking row over sovereignty
    Armed German border guards marching into Greece or Hungary against the will of their governments, what could possibly go wrong ?! The Czech border with Germany might be particularly sensitive!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    chestnut said:

    Comres polling puts the swing at 11% if Cameron does not get the welfare change he seeks, turning a big Remain into a narrow Leave

    No remain is still narrowly ahead if he does not get welfare changes Out only leads if he fails to get protection for being outside the eurozone
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,601
    edited December 2015

    Mr @DecrepitJohnL's other meme is that it was YouTube and Facebook wot won it for the Tories.

    I find that quite incredible.

    Why doesn't Obama join the Tories?

    Tory co-chairman claimed Obama sent pollster to UK to stop Miliband, book says

    Lord Feldman made claim about pollster Jim Messina in election night victory speech, say authors Philip Cowley and Dennis Kavanagh

    http://bit.ly/1OvDfdh

    It was certainly Messina what won it.

    Undoubtedly.

    Nothing to do with Labour or their leader.....
    The personal abuse of the Labour leader has also been used against Blair, Brown and Corbyn, and doubtless would have been much the same under, say, David Miliband, except with bananas in place of bacon sandwiches. The crucial factor was Messina's work in dissecting and micro-targeting which voters to tell "Miliband is a twat" or "Miliband is an SNP puppet" or whatever.
    I know this has been your pet meme since the election, but the simple reality is, Labour were still unpopular and Ed was never perceived as a viable alternative to lead the country.
    Lynton Crosby agrees Facebook and YouTube was key.

    Having a good leader and good narrative also helped.
  • Options
    Sorted it.

    Somewhat ridiculously, I had to Google it, and then type in "www.weebly.com/editor/logout.php".

    Pisses me off when sites hide things. Blogspot did the same (still no idea how to log out directly, but as it's Google-linked I can just sign out elsewhere and refresh to check it worked).
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    At least he didn't call her Donalda. I can't get over Nigella Lawson. Nigella??
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Fair play to Donald, I'm beginning to like him even more
    He said he'd be dating Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    If one were unlucky enough to survive, rationing a bit of rat or diseased dog for supper would be uppermost in one's mind.
    Yes other priorities take over
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Donald Trump's wives have been mostly immigrants, haven't they?

    Immigrants: doing jobs normal Americans won't.
    Chortle .... :smile:

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    Mr. W, it'd be a bit odd if Charles' first experience of looking over government papers was after he become king, I think.

    Republic are just whining, as usual.
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    Miss Plato, Nursie's sister in Blackadder was called Donald.

    Nursie's real name, of course, being Bernard.
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    The #jez100 are coming thick and fast:

    Janet T Beckett ‏@carbonsaveruk 2m2 minutes ago
    For twitching at the curtains of Overton window for the first time in 30 years #jez100
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12052517/Jeremy-Corbyn-gives-key-ally-reigns-over-local-election-campaign-in-new-show-of-strength.html
    Amid widespread speculation of a front bench reshuffle, the Labour leader has handed responsibility for the May elections to his close ally Jon Trickett, the shadow communities and local government secretary.

    The move is being seen as a “clear attempt” to ensure the party fights an anti-austerity campaign amid fears councillors will abandon Mr Corbyn's policies and quietly campaign under their own platform.

    Mr Trickett opposes Trident renewal, austerity cuts and Syrian air strikes – positions adopted by Mr Corbyn but rejected by many shadow cabinet ministers. He also informally advised Mr Corbyn during his leadership campaign and has called for a more democratic approach to policymaking.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    If you are serious about your libertarianism you really shouldn't want Trump to win.
  • Options

    Miss Plato, Nursie's sister in Blackadder was called Donald.

    Nursie's real name, of course, being Bernard.

    Named after the Tory MP Bernard Jenkin

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1446547/Why-Tory-MP-is-the-father-of-all-Bernards.html
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. W, it'd be a bit odd if Charles' first experience of looking over government papers was after he become king, I think.

    Republic are just whining, as usual.

    Quite so.

    The surprise in this story is that anyone is surprised. Any cursory glance at post Georgian constitutional history would indicate that the present situation is the norm.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    edited December 2015
    Miss Plato, appalling headline.

    Reins*.

    It does look like death by a thousand cuts for sane Labour.

    The danger, well, one of them, is that, like Miliband, mid-term blues mean Labour do alright in some elections, giving the sheep of Labour an excuse not to defenestrate Corbyn (or even attempt to do so).

    The greatest danger, of course, is that Corbyn becomes PM.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. W, was mildly surprised the BBC bothered reporting it.

    Mr. Eagles, surely he was named after Nursie?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2015
    Is there any chance whatever that Dave will complete his rounds of Euro persuasion efforts, come up empty, and decide that he will actually then join the Out camp? If he had a public epiphany and said 'I was in favour of remaining but have become persuaded that there is no political flexibility to move away from 'Ever Closer' so on balance I think it is better to leave and control our own destiny. I have always said I would take this view if my renegotiation efforts were frustrated and I intend to keep my word'.

    He'd be a hero in his own party and would then win the referendum.

    Or am I just fantasising?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/12052646/The-great-Margaret-Thatcher-auction-a-sell-off-of-assets-that-did-the-Lady-proud.html
    Remarkably, bigger sums were to come. About an hour later, we came to Lot 70: a 26-inch model of an American bald eagle – a gift to Mrs Thatcher from President Reagan. It was expected to fetch £5-8,000. Guess the winning bid.

    No? It was £266,500.

    This was, in short, a roaringly successful sell-off of assets. I’m sure their former owner would have considered it a fitting tribute.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. W, was mildly surprised the BBC bothered reporting it.

    It was also a lead story on SkyNews and the front page headline story in the Daily Mail and The Guardian.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    The monarch is apolitical. The private audience with the PM will be a different matter.

    As heir to the throne I want Prince Charles to be fully informed so that on succession he will be fully appraised of the affairs of state so that he may be able to properly undertake his constitutional role to advise, counsel and warn the government of the day.

    In time both Prince William and Prince George will have a similar role. Historically both the heir to the throne and the spouse of the Monarch have had similar access to state papers.
    For HMQ it was ever thus so most people don't have a problem with it.

    For subsequent generations, perhaps including Charles, I'm not so sure.

    William - great bloke, it seems, but not unlike millions of other young men and I can see no reason, as heir to the throne (and eventual King), helicopter pilot, occasional boozer, polo player, father, Boujis-frequenter, he should get such access.

    Not sure about his counsel or advice, either.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Let's see what comes out of this one http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12052515/Europe-must-confront-taboos-over-freedom-of-movement-Donald-Tusk-warns.html
    In a letter to EU leaders, Mr Tusk said that Britain's demands for EU reform will be the sole topic for discussion at a dinner between the 28 leaders...

    "As I set out in my letter, we have achieved significant progress in negotiations; however we are still far from an agreement on several topics.

    "This Thursday we will need to focus especially on the most controversial ones. The stakes are so high that we cannot escape a serious debate with no taboos."
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    Mr. W, ....

    what are they expecting? Charles to take no interest, then find himself flung in at the deep end on his first day in the job, after decades of waiting?
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    Of course it is unlikely but Trump would be the president most likely to press the nuclear button of any since Hiroshima
    Errr no. Trump is a traditional America first non interventionist, good reasons that the people in Syria and Iraq, as well as Eastern Ukraine, are cheering him on. With Trump, Paul and Cruz there it is good to see neocon crazies have their barking mad foreign policy positions torn to pieces. Looks like WWIII will be postponed.

    Anyway if you knew what you were talking about LBJ is the only President who came close to using nuclear weapons. A story and President that Trump's consigliere Roger Stone has written extensively on.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Thanks again to Speedy for the excellent pithy summaries last night. OGH's conclusions sound right though I wonder if it isn't tuning into Cruz/Trump with Rubio fading.

    O/T: a wistful piece by a Corbyn fan on how difficult it is to discuss him sensibly - though I think it's a particular example of a general media phenomenon:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/15/balanced-debate-jeremy-corbyn-labour-media-attacks

    Re the GOP, it does look that way at the moment. Will Rubio the latest in the line of obviously-the-best (from a UK perspective) candidates that just doesn't click with the American selectorate?

    Re that piece of OJ's, if you elect someone from beyond the pale they won't be treated as though they were within it. Becoming Leader of the Opposition does usually confer a kind of respectability and stature that makes news coverage more considered (not necessarily less hostile!) I think it's unsurprising that that isn't happening in Corbyn's case.

    Meh, I'm struggling to express myself. What I'm trying to say is that Corbyn and his followers have an extreme case of having to fight for the right to be heard.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    The monarch is apolitical. The private audience with the PM will be a different matter.

    As heir to the throne I want Prince Charles to be fully informed so that on succession he will be fully appraised of the affairs of state so that he may be able to properly undertake his constitutional role to advise, counsel and warn the government of the day.

    In time both Prince William and Prince George will have a similar role. Historically both the heir to the throne and the spouse of the Monarch have had similar access to state papers.
    For HMQ it was ever thus so most people don't have a problem with it.

    For subsequent generations, perhaps including Charles, I'm not so sure.

    William - great bloke, it seems, but not unlike millions of other young men and I can see no reason, as heir to the throne (and eventual King), helicopter pilot, occasional boozer, polo player, father, Boujis-frequenter, he should get such access.

    Not sure about his counsel or advice, either.
    The Queen had access to state papers during her fathers reign as did her mother. In broad terms such regular access began with Prince Albert although there was some initial resistance to such a move.

    Whether as monarch Charles's advice and counsel would wise or not is largely irrelevant. As monarch he may give it. The government may also ignore it.

  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Or am I just fantasising?

    Almost certainly - unless 'Leave' starts registering 20% poll leads perhaps...
  • Options
    @ONS · 1m1 minute ago
    #Unemployment rate 5.2% for Aug-Oct 2015, down from 6.0% a year earlier http://ow.ly/VXHkE

    @ONS · 20s21 seconds ago
    #Employment rate 73.9% for Aug-Oct 2015, highest since records began in 1971 http://ow.ly/VXHyK

  • Options
    runnymede said:

    Or am I just fantasising?

    Almost certainly - unless 'Leave' starts registering 20% poll leads perhaps...

    What odds are you offering on your suggestion of the referendum being cancelled ?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. W, ....

    what are they expecting? Charles to take no interest, then find himself flung in at the deep end on his first day in the job, after decades of waiting?

    Some may be hoping so.

    Clearly it is wiser to have a monarch who is across the issues of the day and able to offer an informed perspective to the Prime Minister of the day.

    Republicans and dullard malcontents will seek any opportunity, however misguided, to chip away at our monarchy. They will fail.

  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    Unemployment fell by 110,000 between August and October to 1.71 million -- official figures.

    For Aug-Oct 2015 there were 31.30 million people in work and 1.71 million unemployed https://t.co/hVKvwEsd0V https://t.co/t1kDdfOz28
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited December 2015
    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    The monarch is apolitical. The private audience with the PM will be a different matter.

    As heir to the throne I want Prince Charles to be fully informed so that on succession he will be fully appraised of the affairs of state so that he may be able to properly undertake his constitutional role to advise, counsel and warn the government of the day.

    In time both Prince William and Prince George will have a similar role. Historically both the heir to the throne and the spouse of the Monarch have had similar access to state papers.
    For HMQ it was ever thus so most people don't have a problem with it.

    For subsequent generations, perhaps including Charles, I'm not so sure.

    William - great bloke, it seems, but not unlike millions of other young men and I can see no reason, as heir to the throne (and eventual King), helicopter pilot, occasional boozer, polo player, father, Boujis-frequenter, he should get such access.

    Not sure about his counsel or advice, either.
    The Queen had access to state papers during her fathers reign as did her mother. In broad terms such regular access began with Prince Albert although there was some initial resistance to such a move.

    Whether as monarch Charles's advice and counsel would wise or not is largely irrelevant. As monarch he may give it. The government may also ignore it.

    Times move on, Jack.

    In my mind is a picture, shown in all the media, of William being manhandled into a car after a night out because he is so drunk he can't stand up on his own.

    Some years ago the decision was made to demystify, demythify the Royal Family. They can't have their cake and eat it. Either they are a distant presence opining on events within their kingdom, or they are one of us (as they are trying to be now) in which case what's with the private audience with the PM?
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    Mr. Topping, vielleicht.

    Improved life expectancy and better health can mean younger royals taste 'real life', and gradually become more distant ahead of becoming monarch.

    As Mr. W indicates, some people will always find something to complain about.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Fair play to Donald, I'm beginning to like him even more
    He said he'd be dating Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter.
    That's really quite a disturbing comment
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited December 2015
    'Unemployment fell by 110,000 between August and October to 1.71 million -- official figures.;

    The global labour market is starting to tighten. This movement will have a profound effect. The era of cheap labour may be coming to an end.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Fair play to Donald, I'm beginning to like him even more
    He said he'd be dating Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter.
    Last night on Newsnight.

    Evan Davis: Isn't that a bit creepy?

    Coulter: Jeez, have you Brits lost your sense of humour?

    Evan Davis: Do you think terms such as r*ghead and sand jockey are helpful to political debate?

    Coulter: Jeez, have you Brits lost your sense of humour?
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Unemployment fell by 110,000 between August and October to 1.71 million -- official figures.

    For Aug-Oct 2015 there were 31.30 million people in work and 1.71 million unemployed https://t.co/hVKvwEsd0V https://t.co/t1kDdfOz28

    Another miracle of Corbyn's 100 days.
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    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    I see that clown Charles is meddling in politics, as a monarchist I've long been concerned about this plant talking nut job. His mother must be doing all she can to outlive him.

    If you are a monarchist then you should accept the heir to the throne being kept in the picture. The genetic lottery and line to the throne is intrinsic to monarchy.

    One thing we should copy from Europe is retirement of the monarch, or we are going to always have a gerontocracy.
    The reason I'm a monarchist is because our head of state is apolitical, Charles should not interfere or be seen to be interfering.
    The monarch is apolitical. The private audience with the PM will be a different matter.

    As heir to the throne I want Prince Charles to be fully informed so that on succession he will be fully appraised of the affairs of state so that he may be able to properly undertake his constitutional role to advise, counsel and warn the government of the day.

    In time both Prince William and Prince George will have a similar role. Historically both the heir to the throne and the spouse of the Monarch have had similar access to state papers.
    For HMQ it was ever thus so most people don't have a problem with it.

    For subsequent generations, perhaps including Charles, I'm not so sure.

    William - great bloke, it seems, but not unlike millions of other young men and I can see no reason, as heir to the throne (and eventual King), helicopter pilot, occasional boozer, polo player, father, Boujis-frequenter, he should get such access.

    Not sure about his counsel or advice, either.
    The Queen had access to state papers during her fathers reign as did her mother. In broad terms such regular access began with Prince Albert although there was some initial resistance to such a move.

    Whether as monarch Charles's advice and counsel would wise or not is largely irrelevant. As monarch he may give it. The government may also ignore it.

    I expect there will be a petition for William to succeed HMQ. The people who dislike Charles dislike him very much indeed.

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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Moody Slayer
    Ouch. #Jez100 https://t.co/3a8yCWIBDP
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,980
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I hope Trump wins, I don't like him much but my life won't change whoever wins and the reaction of the bedwetters will be hilarious.

    Maybe a Trump presidency would not affect you much but a President Trump with his finger on the nuclear button and in charge of the most powerful military on the planet could certainly have significant consequences
    Meaning: if Trump wins he'll launch nuclear missiles immediately.

    That's why I want him to win, it'll give the hand wringers something else to fret about.



    Well if Trump has a hissy fit and nukes Moscow and Beijing I would imagine winding up the handwringers will be the last thing on your mind
    Yes I can picture it now, Ivana burns the toast one morning and in a fit of pique Trump nukes Moscow and Beijing.

    Come on Donald, you can do it, you're a nutter but the couple of days you have as president before Armageddon will be worth it.

    It seems unlikely. For a start, surely the White House is packed to the rafters with chefs who can make toast.
    Plus Ivana was dumped for a newer model several models ago.
    Fair play to Donald, I'm beginning to like him even more
    He said he'd be dating Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter.
    That's really quite a disturbing comment
    It's a bit reminiscent of Rodrigo Borgia.
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