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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Mr. kle4, but will you be watching the new series?

    Only if I hear it's good.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    dr_spyn said:

    I see that Bishop of Leicester is trending, did he get the winner against Chelsea last night?

    I don't think any Leicester players are deviant enough to make Bishop.

    Though God is clearly a Leicester fan.
    The reason Texas Stadium had a hole in the roof was so that God could watch His team play.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Eagles, just been reading about him, actually, as part of the William Marshal biography by Thomas Asbridge.

    You and Mr. Llama are seeking to impose modern borders on ancient lands. By that definition, you'd consider Normans to be French, Alexander to be Greek, and Hannibal to be Tunisian.

    OI! I have said no such thing.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    edited 2015 15
    Mr. B, that's ridiculous. Everyone knows God's a Yorkshireman.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Llama, I think it was Mr. Eagles who said so. I foolishly thought he'd be able to get yesterday correct, but should've realised even the most recent of history is beyond him.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598
    edited 2015 15
    Cyclefree said:



    (Incidentally, for @NickPalmer, I responded to your question to me yesterday on the last thread but one. I hope you saw it.)

    Hi Cyclefree, I replied to your reply, unless there was more than one reply! Multi-thread correspondence is a bit like I imagine ham radio chats used to be - "Oh, I'm losing you, let's try a different wavelength". We can discuss offline if you like (nickmp1 at aol dot com). (This is starting to sound like a postmodern chat-up line - "Come and see my thoughts on islamism and the Labour Party". How can your Paris friend match that?)
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Mr. Pulpstar, were the other British astronauts rapscallions? :P

    I was interested to hear that Peake is the first official British astronaut. Nothing to do with gender etc, just the fact that neither Foale (NASA) nor Sharman (ESA) had any monetary or practical support from the British government for their trips. I was very sad to hear that Thatcher had thought that British involvement in any sort of space programme was a complete waste of time and money. I would have hoped for better from someone with a scientific background.
    That is sad. We tend to think of ourselves as a nation of explorers who are at forefront of new discoveries even if we don't exploit them commercially very well. In astronautics, however, we have sat back and let the rest of the world get on with it.

    Anyway, Tim Peake is in orbit now. Seemed to be enjoying his launch.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    A couple of interesting points about tonight's GOP debate on CNN -

    the location at The Venetian was built for a production of Phantom of The Opera: it is incredibly sumptuous and beautiful. The chandelier is fantastic.

    Las Vegas is Marco Rubio's home town. He held a huge event there last night.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482

    I agree - I don't think he's so wedded to the EU that he won't shift over to the other side. He's a patriot first and if he can't do a meaningful deal - why die in a ditch over it?

    Many voluble Leavers will disagree with me - but then they use any pretext to bash him, so I don't think they're worth engaging with on this. They've made up their minds. I don't understand why they get so infuriated about the supposed crapness of his negotiations - I'd be delighted if I were in their shoes

    TGOHF said:

    runnymede said:

    'Cameron is being smart by not asking for too much - when he fails - and he will because the EU is spectacularly crap, nobody is going to complain that he was too ambitious and asked for too much. He can say well we tried for a modest re modernising change and the EU said no - so on balance we tried, we failed, lets leave.'

    I'd really like to believe that, but....

    I think its his plan B - he wants to try plan A but is rightly not confident of success.
    Cameron will switch to leave as and when the US wants us to switch to leave. Any other considerations - personal frustration, electoral expediency, deep seated patriotism, not getting anything from negotiations, etc. etc. are so much fluff.

    We are tied in - we are keeping the EU from drifting East-wards, as the US' man on the inside, and they are keeping us from a future nationalistic resurgence/militarism. This has been part of US foreign policy doctrine for some time.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739

    Not sure if anyone has mentioned yet Mike but this thread and your table above are being used by the Telegraph in their 'live' coverage.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12050824/EU-referendum-UK-exit-nears-with-latest-ICM-poll-tracker-live.html

    Well done PB!
    On that same link, now updated, there is a map from the Pro-EU Centre for European Reform showing who is opposed to Cameron's proposals for limiting benefits. Basically everyone opposed in principle with only Ireland and Finland open to discussion.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,753

    Mr. Pulpstar, were the other British astronauts rapscallions? :P

    I was interested to hear that Peake is the first official British astronaut. Nothing to do with gender etc, just the fact that neither Foale (NASA) nor Sharman (ESA) had any monetary or practical support from the British government for their trips. I was very sad to hear that Thatcher had thought that British involvement in any sort of space programme was a complete waste of time and money. I would have hoped for better from someone with a scientific background.
    On the other hand, we are a world leader on satellites and associated technology, with a turnover of just under £12 billion per year employing 37,000 people.

    Manned spaceflight is cool, but expensive and the value is relatively low. Rocketry is sexy, but massively expensive and fiscally dangerous. Building satellites is cheaper and very much value-added.

    If we could do all three (manned launchers and satellites), cool. If we can only do one, then satellites is the sane one to do. Launchers are big ego-trips for countries. Until private space ala Musk becomes more common ...
    Asteroid mining and space tourism are the two biggies. Both are a long, long way off but I'm glad Bezos and Musk in particular have become billionaires with more cash than they know what to do with.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. B, that's ridiculous. Everyone knows God's a Yorkshireman.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Llama, I think it was Mr. Eagles who said so. I foolishly thought he'd be able to get yesterday correct, but should've realised even the most recent of history is beyond him.

    Indeed - a fellow tyke, as am I. But he can still root for America's Team.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    PeterC said:

    The risk for REMAIN is that Cameron comes back with a damp squib yet has to pretend that it is something wonderful. This will make him the object of scorn and mockery by LEAVE. It's always difficult to take seriously a politician who is both laughed at and thought to be disingenuous.

    I still find it hard to imagine that LEAVE can win, but I find myself moving from reluctant REMAIN to probable LEAVE. It looks like others are doing the same.

    If Cameron comes back with world peace and the fountain of eternal youth he'll be mocked by Leave.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,016

    Mr. B, that's ridiculous. Everyone knows God's a Yorkshireman.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Llama, I think it was Mr. Eagles who said so. I foolishly thought he'd be able to get yesterday correct, but should've realised even the most recent of history is beyond him.

    Not a Yorkshirewoman then?
  • megalomaniacs4umegalomaniacs4u Posts: 326
    edited 2015 15
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,246
    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, were the other British astronauts rapscallions? :P

    I was interested to hear that Peake is the first official British astronaut. Nothing to do with gender etc, just the fact that neither Foale (NASA) nor Sharman (ESA) had any monetary or practical support from the British government for their trips. I was very sad to hear that Thatcher had thought that British involvement in any sort of space programme was a complete waste of time and money. I would have hoped for better from someone with a scientific background.
    On the other hand, we are a world leader on satellites and associated technology, with a turnover of just under £12 billion per year employing 37,000 people.

    Manned spaceflight is cool, but expensive and the value is relatively low. Rocketry is sexy, but massively expensive and fiscally dangerous. Building satellites is cheaper and very much value-added.

    If we could do all three (manned launchers and satellites), cool. If we can only do one, then satellites is the sane one to do. Launchers are big ego-trips for countries. Until private space ala Musk becomes more common ...
    Asteroid mining and space tourism are the two biggies. Both are a long, long way off but I'm glad Bezos and Musk in particular have become billionaires with more cash than they know what to do with.
    I'm cynical about both of those, at least with current tech (regular readers will detect a trend here). There are only a limited number of people with the $250,000 a Virgin Galactic flight would cost, for a crappy suborbital flight. Orbital flights offered by the Russians until recently cost $20-40 million.

    As ever with space, reducing the launch cost is vital. And the USSR, USA and ESA had no real reason to cost reduce per kg to LEO. Hopefully competition from Blue Origin and especially SpaceX will start a race to safely reduce costs.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Meaningless scientific statistics -

    watching a documentary on a meteor landing in Russia (Chelyabinsk?). Lots of dash cam videos of the rock coming down.

    To give an impression of the size, the narrator says it was 'heavier than the Eiffel Tower'.

    Taller than the Eiffel Tower - that is easy to grasp.

    Heavier - that conveys nothing.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's fascinating stuff - attitudes to nationality have all sorts of quirks. There was a story recently of an Aussie rejected for a rental home because "they're all drunks".

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    Kippers are more critical of Pakistanis/Muslims and others than most. Colour me stunned.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
    Eh, lost me toward the end, I felt lost held up better, crappy finale notwithstanding.

    I think Abrahms is great at style, premise and settings. It's not like he ran the show with either lost or fringe, but he sets things up very well, and others can make it greater or fail to build on it, which he doesn't do much of himself.

    On space news, go Britain, I've just finished listening to the Martian again. One of the best performed audio books I've heard. Really makes you want to be a better person as its very optimistic about hunan nature, and give space agencies all the money they want as well, they should promote it as an advert for how awesome everyone in the space programmes are (which is not to say everyone in the book us 1 dimensional in their awesomeness)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    Scotland's debt mountain: Holyrood's borrowing could hit £50bn by 2020

    Guardian investigation finds public sector borrowing for schools, roads, rail and education is set to dwarf Scottish parliament’s annual £30bn budget, prompting auditor general and opposition parties to call for greater transparency

    http://gu.com/p/4f42x?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I didn't like S5 - it was a hat-tip to the fans to do it by Fox.

    Have you watched the commentary that goes with Fringe - it's very funny. One of them says he didn't notice the hand had 6 fingers for months.
    kle4 said:

    Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
    Eh, lost me toward the end, I felt lost held up better, crappy finale notwithstanding.

    I think Abrahms is great at style, premise and settings. It's not like he ran the show with either lost or fringe, but he sets things up very well, and others can make it greater or fail to build on it, which he doesn't do much of himself.

    On space news, go Britain, I've just finished listening to the Martian again. One of the best performed audio books I've heard. Really makes you want to be a better person as its very optimistic about hunan nature, and give space agencies all the money they want as well, they should promote it as an advert for how awesome everyone in the space programmes are (which is not to say everyone in the book us 1 dimensional in their awesomeness)
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    Wanderer said:

    PeterC said:

    The risk for REMAIN is that Cameron comes back with a damp squib yet has to pretend that it is something wonderful. This will make him the object of scorn and mockery by LEAVE. It's always difficult to take seriously a politician who is both laughed at and thought to be disingenuous.

    I still find it hard to imagine that LEAVE can win, but I find myself moving from reluctant REMAIN to probable LEAVE. It looks like others are doing the same.

    If Cameron comes back with world peace and the fountain of eternal youth he'll be mocked by Leave.

    You are right about that. Crucially though, the mockery will ring true.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    I didn't like S5 - it was a hat-tip to the fans to do it by Fox.

    Have you watched the commentary that goes with Fringe - it's very funny. One of them says he didn't notice the hand had 6 fingers for months.

    kle4 said:

    Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
    Eh, lost me toward the end, I felt lost held up better, crappy finale notwithstanding.

    I think Abrahms is great at style, premise and settings. It's not like he ran the show with either lost or fringe, but he sets things up very well, and others can make it greater or fail to build on it, which he doesn't do much of himself.

    On space news, go Britain, I've just finished listening to the Martian again. One of the best performed audio books I've heard. Really makes you want to be a better person as its very optimistic about hunan nature, and give space agencies all the money they want as well, they should promote it as an advert for how awesome everyone in the space programmes are (which is not to say everyone in the book us 1 dimensional in their awesomeness)
    I shall have to give them a go. A lot of comentaries are dull, but the good ones are definitely worth it
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    PeterC said:

    The risk for REMAIN is that Cameron comes back with a damp squib yet has to pretend that it is something wonderful. This will make him the object of scorn and mockery by LEAVE. It's always difficult to take seriously a politician who is both laughed at and thought to be disingenuous.

    I still find it hard to imagine that LEAVE can win, but I find myself moving from reluctant REMAIN to probable LEAVE. It looks like others are doing the same.

    That's not a risk, that's already happened. His 'demands' themselves are a damp squib that he's pretending is wonderful. The 'risk' is that even these are thrown in his face. http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/david-cameron-will-secure-all-of-his-eu-reforms-because-they-will-alter-nothing/

    If they are emphatically rejected, I think it will be quite telling, as in my opinion it will reveal that our own political establishment wants us to be in the EU far more than the European political establishment wants us to be in it.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,882

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The one about the pilot is just fab.
    kle4 said:

    I didn't like S5 - it was a hat-tip to the fans to do it by Fox.

    Have you watched the commentary that goes with Fringe - it's very funny. One of them says he didn't notice the hand had 6 fingers for months.

    kle4 said:

    Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
    Eh, lost me toward the end, I felt lost held up better, crappy finale notwithstanding.

    I think Abrahms is great at style, premise and settings. It's not like he ran the show with either lost or fringe, but he sets things up very well, and others can make it greater or fail to build on it, which he doesn't do much of himself.

    On space news, go Britain, I've just finished listening to the Martian again. One of the best performed audio books I've heard. Really makes you want to be a better person as its very optimistic about hunan nature, and give space agencies all the money they want as well, they should promote it as an advert for how awesome everyone in the space programmes are (which is not to say everyone in the book us 1 dimensional in their awesomeness)
    I shall have to give them a go. A lot of comentaries are dull, but the good ones are definitely worth it
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,753
    kle4 said:

    Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
    Eh, lost me toward the end, I felt lost held up better, crappy finale notwithstanding.

    I think Abrahms is great at style, premise and settings. It's not like he ran the show with either lost or fringe, but he sets things up very well, and others can make it greater or fail to build on it, which he doesn't do much of himself.

    On space news, go Britain, I've just finished listening to the Martian again. One of the best performed audio books I've heard. Really makes you want to be a better person as its very optimistic about hunan nature, and give space agencies all the money they want as well, they should promote it as an advert for how awesome everyone in the space programmes are (which is not to say everyone in the book us 1 dimensional in their awesomeness)
    Tim Peake is going to run a marathon on a treadmill in the ISS. Andy Weir got one thing right, astronaus are simply 'better' than most of us down here.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. kle4, I found the Lord of the Rings commentaries pretty tedious. Some of the Game of Thrones ones are very good.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    edited 2015 15
    Tim_B said:

    Meaningless scientific statistics -

    watching a documentary on a meteor landing in Russia (Chelyabinsk?). Lots of dash cam videos of the rock coming down.

    To give an impression of the size, the narrator says it was 'heavier than the Eiffel Tower'.

    Taller than the Eiffel Tower - that is easy to grasp.

    Heavier - that conveys nothing.

    Isn't much of the Eiffel Tower air?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Wanderer said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, were the other British astronauts rapscallions? :P

    I was interested to hear that Peake is the first official British astronaut. Nothing to do with gender etc, just the fact that neither Foale (NASA) nor Sharman (ESA) had any monetary or practical support from the British government for their trips. I was very sad to hear that Thatcher had thought that British involvement in any sort of space programme was a complete waste of time and money. I would have hoped for better from someone with a scientific background.
    That is sad. We tend to think of ourselves as a nation of explorers who are at forefront of new discoveries even if we don't exploit them commercially very well. In astronautics, however, we have sat back and let the rest of the world get on with it.

    Anyway, Tim Peake is in orbit now. Seemed to be enjoying his launch.
    A lot of real space-based scientific exploration has not merely been done by sending someone into space for him to come back down, but areas like satellites etc have discovered so much.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    edited 2015 15

    Mr. kle4, I found the Lord of the Rings commentaries pretty tedious. Some of the Game of Thrones ones are very good.

    Futurama ones are generally pretty entertaining.
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
    Eh, lost me toward the end, I felt lost held up better, crappy finale notwithstanding.

    I think Abrahms is great at style, premise and settings. It's not like he ran the show with either lost or fringe, but he sets things up very well, and others can make it greater or fail to build on it, which he doesn't do much of himself.

    On space news, go Britain, I've just finished listening to the Martian again. One of the best performed audio books I've heard. Really makes you want to be a better person as its very optimistic about hunan nature, and give space agencies all the money they want as well, they should promote it as an advert for how awesome everyone in the space programmes are (which is not to say everyone in the book us 1 dimensional in their awesomeness)
    Tim Peake is going to run a marathon on a treadmill in the ISS. Andy Weir got one thing right, astronaus are simply 'better' than most of us down here.
    Yes indeed. Weir had to fudge the science to make the story work, but he didn't need to on that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,276

    Tim_B said:

    Meaningless scientific statistics -

    watching a documentary on a meteor landing in Russia (Chelyabinsk?). Lots of dash cam videos of the rock coming down.

    To give an impression of the size, the narrator says it was 'heavier than the Eiffel Tower'.

    Taller than the Eiffel Tower - that is easy to grasp.

    Heavier - that conveys nothing.

    Isn't much of the Eiffel Tower air?
    plus the Eiffel Tower is not an accepted comparative unit of measurement (eg. size of wales, volume of swimming pool, height of double decker bus, size of football pitch, etc).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,882
    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
    I think it's rather disappointing to be honest. What have young people done to be so disliked?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Meaningless scientific statistics -

    watching a documentary on a meteor landing in Russia (Chelyabinsk?). Lots of dash cam videos of the rock coming down.

    To give an impression of the size, the narrator says it was 'heavier than the Eiffel Tower'.

    Taller than the Eiffel Tower - that is easy to grasp.

    Heavier - that conveys nothing.

    Isn't much of the Eiffel Tower air?
    yes, and the rest of it is French.

    It's an un utterly meaningless stat.

    It's like saying "It's warmer in the country than it is in the summer."
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, were the other British astronauts rapscallions? :P

    I was interested to hear that Peake is the first official British astronaut. Nothing to do with gender etc, just the fact that neither Foale (NASA) nor Sharman (ESA) had any monetary or practical support from the British government for their trips. I was very sad to hear that Thatcher had thought that British involvement in any sort of space programme was a complete waste of time and money. I would have hoped for better from someone with a scientific background.
    That is sad. We tend to think of ourselves as a nation of explorers who are at forefront of new discoveries even if we don't exploit them commercially very well. In astronautics, however, we have sat back and let the rest of the world get on with it.

    Anyway, Tim Peake is in orbit now. Seemed to be enjoying his launch.
    A lot of real space-based scientific exploration has not merely been done by sending someone into space for him to come back down, but areas like satellites etc have discovered so much.
    We haven't made a huge contribution in unmanned exploration either. The ESA has done a moderate amount and we've contributed a little to that.
  • Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
    The best shows he was involved with he had minimal impact after the first series (if it survived).

    Fringe, Person of Interest being the best stuff he was involved with.
    I gave up on Lost after season 1,
    Then you have Believe, Almost Human that got cancelled fast.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,960
    dr_spyn said:
    Rather strange finding in that article:

    Presuming the SNP are returned to Hollyrood next May. Who will make the most effective opposition to them?

    59% said Green Party
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    PeterC said:

    The risk for REMAIN is that Cameron comes back with a damp squib yet has to pretend that it is something wonderful. This will make him the object of scorn and mockery by LEAVE. It's always difficult to take seriously a politician who is both laughed at and thought to be disingenuous.

    I still find it hard to imagine that LEAVE can win, but I find myself moving from reluctant REMAIN to probable LEAVE. It looks like others are doing the same.

    That's not a risk, that's already happened. His 'demands' themselves are a damp squib that he's pretending is wonderful. The 'risk' is that even these are thrown in his face. http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/david-cameron-will-secure-all-of-his-eu-reforms-because-they-will-alter-nothing/

    If they are emphatically rejected, I think it will be quite telling, as in my opinion it will reveal that our own political establishment wants us to be in the EU far more than the European political establishment wants us to be in it.

    No no no.

    It's all been arranged. I know because literally everyone on pb said the whole thing was a prearranged charade.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. 1000, for using the term 'literally' inaccurately, I hereby banish you to ConHome until the End of Days.

    Well, it's that, or being stuck in the Infernal History Classroom with Mr. Eagles. Take your pick.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I didn't rate Believe - it was so derivative. Almost Human I loved - can't understand why that didn't get a S2. Karl Urban [?] was great.

    Fringe was superb though.

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much (if it's due to stupid plotting, that's no deal breaker, most trek had stupid, illogical plotting). I'm worried though. The new star wars, all the elements seem great, so I'm concerned not that it will be crap, but that it will just be mediocre instead. That'd be disappointing, not to be amazing or amazingly terrible.

    As I'm just a casual fan though at least I can survive more bad movies, unlike some people I fear for.
    Its the jj abrams effect, stylish froth - decent action sequences & in-jokes but the plot gets lost* - he is kinda the sci-fi michael bay.

    * bit like Lost & most of the tv series he produces - with some notable exceptions.
    The best shows he was involved with he had minimal impact after the first series (if it survived).

    Fringe, Person of Interest being the best stuff he was involved with.
    I gave up on Lost after season 1,
    Then you have Believe, Almost Human that got cancelled fast.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Sean_F said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
    I think it's rather disappointing to be honest. What have young people done to be so disliked?
    Of course you are right.

    One interpretation would be that it's just a reflection of an ageing population. Would be interesting to have matching data from other European countries where the birthrate is lower. Are they even more anti-youth?

    Alternatively, it seems to fit in with what, to me, is an unmotivated level of dissatisfaction in general. This is a great country to live in but you wouldn't think it from a lot of public discourse.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'That's not a risk, that's already happened. His 'demands' themselves are a damp squib that he's pretending is (sic) wonderful. The 'risk' is that even these are thrown in his face.'

    Hmm yes though you have to ask yourself why he started off airing proposals that would have genuinely been concrete changes and has 'progressed' rapidly to meaningless soundbites.

    Such a series of climbdowns will help him with his chums around the EU conference tables but the real audience he should be addressing is here. Is just complacency or incompetence?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    I find 1 interesting. Yes, the party is more than just it's current direction, but that is a pretty crucial part. If someone wants to stick around to fight that's fine, but if a party has turned into something you don't recognise and cannot support why on earth shouldn't someone leave? They could always come back.

    And while it has more positive reasons later on, 2 seems to be saying 'no one will care, so don't bother'.

    Honestly, I'm still not sold that it's a major problem for them yet. A clear majority of then current members supported Corbyn at election, not sure why enough would have left to change that, so the newbies are just strengthening the majority opinion, not taking it over or changing direction.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,016
    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    What about Chinese Muslims?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,753
    Vardy overlooked for bishop of Leicester I see.

    Mahrez to miss out on being the chief Imam there too I'm guessing.

    #Robbed
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 15
    And Dan's reached peak irked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12051510/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-become-the-Lefts-Enoch-Powell.html
    There is no point pretending that Corbyn's views are no longer the views of the broader Labour Party

    I’m done. Yesterday I cancelled my direct debit to the Labour Party. “Why don’t you just sod off and join the Tories“, Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters regularly ask anyone who dares to challenge their rancid world view.

    I won’t be joining the Tories. But I am sodding off.

    "There are lots of sound political reasons for people staying in the Labour Party to fight Corbynism. But for me, the decision is no longer a political one, but a moral one"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:

    "In overall terms, the difference between beliefs about the “best” and “worst” ethnic groups is narrower for intelligence than for most other characteristics. Jewish and Chinese men and women come out slightly ahead of other groups, while Muslim, Pakistani and Polish folk lag behind – but the gap is modest. This finding holds good, whatever the age, gender or social class of the respondent.

    However, one group of respondents thinks differently. People who voted Ukip in May tend to be far more critical of Polish, Pakistani, Muslim and black Caribbean people than Jewish, Chinese, white or Australian people, on virtually every characteristic – including intelligence. Ukip regard Chinese as the most intelligent of our eight ethnic groups (average net score, plus 58), and Muslims as the least intelligent (net score plus 12). That 46-point chasm between the highest and lowest-rated ethnic groups compares with much smaller differences among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
    I think it's rather disappointing to be honest. What have young people done to be so disliked?
    Of course you are right.

    One interpretation would be that it's just a reflection of an ageing population. Would be interesting to have matching data from other European countries where the birthrate is lower. Are they even more anti-youth?

    Alternatively, it seems to fit in with what, to me, is an unmotivated level of dissatisfaction in general. This is a great country to live in but you wouldn't think it from a lot of public discourse.
    I've known people to express the view they cannot think of anything positive tvabout Britain, now or historically, which is pretty depressing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,753
    kle4 said:

    I find 1 interesting. Yes, the party is more than just it's current direction, but that is a pretty crucial part. If someone wants to stick around to fight that's fine, but if a party has turned into something you don't recognise and cannot support why on earth shouldn't someone leave? They could always come back.

    And while it has more positive reasons later on, 2 seems to be saying 'no one will care, so don't bother'.

    Honestly, I'm still not sold that it's a major problem for them yet. A clear majority of then current members supported Corbyn at election, not sure why enough would have left to change that, so the newbies are just strengthening the majority opinion, not taking it over or changing direction.
    Point 6 is the key one.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    rcs1000 said:

    PeterC said:

    The risk for REMAIN is that Cameron comes back with a damp squib yet has to pretend that it is something wonderful. This will make him the object of scorn and mockery by LEAVE. It's always difficult to take seriously a politician who is both laughed at and thought to be disingenuous.

    I still find it hard to imagine that LEAVE can win, but I find myself moving from reluctant REMAIN to probable LEAVE. It looks like others are doing the same.

    That's not a risk, that's already happened. His 'demands' themselves are a damp squib that he's pretending is wonderful. The 'risk' is that even these are thrown in his face. http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/david-cameron-will-secure-all-of-his-eu-reforms-because-they-will-alter-nothing/

    If they are emphatically rejected, I think it will be quite telling, as in my opinion it will reveal that our own political establishment wants us to be in the EU far more than the European political establishment wants us to be in it.

    No no no.

    It's all been arranged. I know because literally everyone on pb said the whole thing was a prearranged charade.
    A Tory politician is on record saying there would be a manufactured quarrel, but much like when Cameron took a disliking to Juncker (because he thought the Germans would block him and he could borrow some euroskeptic stardust), even manufactured spats have the potential to go awry. We will see.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    And Dan's reached peak irked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12051510/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-become-the-Lefts-Enoch-Powell.html

    There is no point pretending that Corbyn's views are no longer the views of the broader Labour Party

    I’m done. Yesterday I cancelled my direct debit to the Labour Party. “Why don’t you just sod off and join the Tories“, Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters regularly ask anyone who dares to challenge their rancid world view.

    I won’t be joining the Tories. But I am sodding off.

    "There are lots of sound political reasons for people staying in the Labour Party to fight Corbynism. But for me, the decision is no longer a political one, but a moral one"
    Aww, he'd only rejoined them for such a short period as well.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I think that's more an article to convince himself. Been there myself, how much you'll lie to yourself about how unhappy you are vs your loyalty is the scaling factor.
    kle4 said:

    I find 1 interesting. Yes, the party is more than just it's current direction, but that is a pretty crucial part. If someone wants to stick around to fight that's fine, but if a party has turned into something you don't recognise and cannot support why on earth shouldn't someone leave? They could always come back.

    And while it has more positive reasons later on, 2 seems to be saying 'no one will care, so don't bother'.

    Honestly, I'm still not sold that it's a major problem for them yet. A clear majority of then current members supported Corbyn at election, not sure why enough would have left to change that, so the newbies are just strengthening the majority opinion, not taking it over or changing direction.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    More in hope than anything post EdM.
    kle4 said:

    And Dan's reached peak irked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12051510/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-become-the-Lefts-Enoch-Powell.html

    There is no point pretending that Corbyn's views are no longer the views of the broader Labour Party

    I’m done. Yesterday I cancelled my direct debit to the Labour Party. “Why don’t you just sod off and join the Tories“, Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters regularly ask anyone who dares to challenge their rancid world view.

    I won’t be joining the Tories. But I am sodding off.

    "There are lots of sound political reasons for people staying in the Labour Party to fight Corbynism. But for me, the decision is no longer a political one, but a moral one"
    Aww, he'd only rejoined them for such a short period as well.

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
    I think it's rather disappointing to be honest. What have young people done to be so disliked?
    Of course you are right.

    One interpretation would be that it's just a reflection of an ageing population. Would be interesting to have matching data from other European countries where the birthrate is lower. Are they even more anti-youth?

    Alternatively, it seems to fit in with what, to me, is an unmotivated level of dissatisfaction in general. This is a great country to live in but you wouldn't think it from a lot of public discourse.
    I've known people to express the view they cannot think of anything positive tvabout Britain, now or historically, which is pretty depressing.
    Yes! I've come across that and it's bizarre. Of course, one can argue the advantages of being Swiss, Canadian, Norwegian, whatever, but if you are a citizen of this country at this time you are (all other things being equal) one of the luckiest human beings ever to have lived. One should at least be cheerful about it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,882
    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:
    among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
    I think it's rather disappointing to be honest. What have young people done to be so disliked?
    Of course you are right.

    One interpretation would be that it's just a reflection of an ageing population. Would be interesting to have matching data from other European countries where the birthrate is lower. Are they even more anti-youth?

    Alternatively, it seems to fit in with what, to me, is an unmotivated level of dissatisfaction in general. This is a great country to live in but you wouldn't think it from a lot of public discourse.
    I've known people to express the view they cannot think of anything positive tvabout Britain, now or historically, which is pretty depressing.
    It's a point of view that one can encounter on both Left and Right. Many of Corbyn's supporters, on the one hand, and people like Peter Hitchens or Peter Oborne on the other, really do seem to think they're living in a hell hole.

    They should try living in a hell hole.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I suspect that Dan Hodges had only rejoined the Labour party in order to be able to leave it later.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. F, some people enjoy wallowing in misery, just as others get drunk on anger, or seek attention/pity through hypochondria.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    edited 2015 15

    I suspect that Dan Hodges had only rejoined the Labour party in order to be able to leave it later.

    I can't wait for when/if Corbyn goes and he rejoins, only to leave again.

    He makes it sound like he gave Corbyn a fair shot and was holding back!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    I suspect that Dan Hodges had only rejoined the Labour party in order to be able to leave it later.

    I can't wait for when/if Corbyn goes and he rejoins, only to leave again.

    He makes it sound like he gave Corbyn a fair shot and was holding back!
    Perhaps Labour could introduce a commuter membership specially designed for journalists who periodically want to flounce.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12051510/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-become-the-Lefts-Enoch-Powell.html

    Labour wish!

    Powell swung two elections in 1970 and 1974 in the direction he wanted...Corbyn may well swing one too, but in the opposite way to that he would like...
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    We used to take the mickey out of my MIL - it was only being so miserable that made life worth living/nail her to a cross to cheer her up.

    Mr. F, some people enjoy wallowing in misery, just as others get drunk on anger, or seek attention/pity through hypochondria.

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    I suspect that Dan Hodges had only rejoined the Labour party in order to be able to leave it later.

    I didn't used to take him seriously. On 8th May one of my bleary-eyed breakfast resolutions was not to ignore Dan Hodges in future.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:
    among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
    I think it's rather disappointing to be honest. What have young people done to be so disliked?
    Of course you are right.

    One interpretation would be that it's just a reflection of an ageing population. Would be interesting to have matching data from other European countries where the birthrate is lower. Are they even more anti-youth?

    Alternatively, it seems to fit in with what, to me, is an unmotivated level of dissatisfaction in general. This is a great country to live in but you wouldn't think it from a lot of public discourse.
    I've known people to express the view they cannot think of anything positive tvabout Britain, now or historically, which is pretty depressing.
    It's a point of view that one can encounter on both Left and Right. Many of Corbyn's supporters, on the one hand, and people like Peter Hitchens or Peter Oborne on the other, really do seem to think they're living in a hell hole.

    They should try living in a hell hole.
    That's because they're not comparing it with the world's flea pits, they're comparing it with what they think it could and should be.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    edited 2015 15
    Wanderer said:

    I suspect that Dan Hodges had only rejoined the Labour party in order to be able to leave it later.

    I didn't used to take him seriously. On 8th May one of my bleary-eyed breakfast resolutions was not to ignore Dan Hodges in future.
    A fair point, but his intense shifts in mood as through the Corbyn election are still amusing

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,882

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:
    among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
    I think it's rather disappointing to be honest. What have young people done to be so disliked?
    Of course you are right.

    One interpretation would be that it's just a reflection of an ageing population. Would be interesting to have matching data from other European countries where the birthrate is lower. Are they even more anti-youth?

    Alternatively, it seems to fit in with what, to me, is an unmotivated level of dissatisfaction in general. This is a great country to live in but you wouldn't think it from a lot of public discourse.
    I've known people to express the view they cannot think of anything positive tvabout Britain, now or historically, which is pretty depressing.
    It's a point of view that one can encounter on both Left and Right. Many of Corbyn's supporters, on the one hand, and people like Peter Hitchens or Peter Oborne on the other, really do seem to think they're living in a hell hole.

    They should try living in a hell hole.
    That's because they're not comparing it with the world's flea pits, they're comparing it with what they think it could and should be.
    If one's standard is perfection, one will always be disappointed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    edited 2015 15

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul
    Young white men the most negatively regarded group: Peter Kellner of @YouGov https://t.co/05AtwVpYVo

    In the midst of that survey, there are a couple of little nuggets:

    "Are young Polish men, in particular, taking jobs from young white Britons? If they are, our results suggests that it is in large measure because we hold young Polish men in much higher regard.

    Our graphic compares the reputations of young white and Polish men on each of the five virtues we tested. We see no difference in their intelligence and honesty. But on the other three, Poles clearly do better. We think they are more likely to be polite and to help others – and far more likely to work hard. "

    And more controversially:
    among those who voted Conservative (27), Labour (15) or Liberal Democrat (16)."
    There does seem to be widespread prejudice against younger people generally, as well as young white men in particular.
    Whose side were the young on in the war?
    I think it's rather disappointing to be honest. What have young people done to be so disliked?
    Of course you are right.

    One interpretation would be that it's just a reflection of an ageing population. Would be interesting to have matching data from other European countries where the birthrate is lower. Are they even more anti-youth?

    Alternatively, it seems to fit in with what, to me, is an unmotivated level of dissatisfaction in general. This is a great country to live in but you wouldn't think it from a lot of public discourse.
    I've known people to express the view they cannot think of anything positive tvabout Britain, now or historically, which is pretty depressing.
    It's a point of view that one can encounter on both Left and Right. Many of Corbyn's supporters, on the one hand, and people like Peter Hitchens or Peter Oborne on the other, really do seem to think they're living in a hell hole.

    They should try living in a hell hole.
    That's because they're not comparing it with the world's flea pits, they're comparing it with what they think it could and should be.
    That's fine, but even then people should be able to come up with at least one thing unprompted that's good about this country, even if it's accidental. I'm sure even the worst hellholes have at least one decent thing. I'm talking people who literally say they cannot think of anything. That's not political or overly optimistic, that's just stupid.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    I suspect that Dan Hodges had only rejoined the Labour party in order to be able to leave it later.

    I didn't used to take him seriously. On 8th May one of my bleary-eyed breakfast resolutions was not to ignore Dan Hodges in future.
    A fair point, but his intense shifts in mood as through the Corbyn election are still amusing

    Indeed. In fact I started paying attention at the exact moment he went into meltdown.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Hodges does seem to be right about the majority of Labour MPs "waiting for a phantom army". Unless there's a very well-concealed plan, of course.

    Perhaps it is partly a consequence of the professionalisation of politics (far fewer MPs with second jobs, and far more that have never had a non-political job) that they are so reluctant to act - and that's with over 4 years left in their seats!
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    edited 2015 15

    PeterC said:

    The risk for REMAIN is that Cameron comes back with a damp squib yet has to pretend that it is something wonderful. This will make him the object of scorn and mockery by LEAVE. It's always difficult to take seriously a politician who is both laughed at and thought to be disingenuous.

    I still find it hard to imagine that LEAVE can win, but I find myself moving from reluctant REMAIN to probable LEAVE. It looks like others are doing the same.

    That's not a risk, that's already happened. His 'demands' themselves are a damp squib that he's pretending is wonderful. The 'risk' is that even these are thrown in his face. http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/david-cameron-will-secure-all-of-his-eu-reforms-because-they-will-alter-nothing/

    If they are emphatically rejected, I think it will be quite telling, as in my opinion it will reveal that our own political establishment wants us to be in the EU far more than the European political establishment wants us to be in it.

    I am not sure that REMAIN quite understands the extent to which the feebleness of 'renegotiation' could be exploited. If LEAVE gets its act together REMAIN will be seriously on the backfoot. The emperor will have no clothes and will be seen as such.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,753
    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    Labour NIL.

    Lol.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    I called Scottish Tory surge the other night.

    Reminds me of the guy who was predicting I think seven Scottish Tory MPs at the GE.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now worried TSE will see the new Star Wars film before me and give it a good review.

    He also liked the 2nd Star Trek movie, which was nearly as bad as SPECTRE
    I'd like to point out the writer/director of the second Star Trek movie is the writer/director of The Force Awakens.

    That fills me to the brim with girlish glee.
    The new star treks are great, I don't understand why some dislike the second one so much
    The plot is nonsensical garbage, the retconning doesn't make sense within the parameters set in the first movie, the deus ex machina was painfully signposted, and the deftness of touch when it came to the original series/movies references was somewhere between leaden and neutron star desnity in their clunking lack of subtlty.

    Plus the action sequences were awful.
  • Dangerous link - the Politics Home website is very professional and interesting!
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    Cue the Malcoholic with Turnip Abuse set to full power.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I've been away this morning, so if anybody has already threaded this, my apologies:

    Is Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn right - when it comes to kickstarting the economy, is it time for a people's QE?
    http://www.cityam.com/230723/is-it-time-for-a-peoples-qe-
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    UK Elections
    Our forecast for #sp16 shows SNP will win 67 constituencies. In 2nd, the Conservatives on 5, with Labour on 0 seats. https://t.co/5ooe45HVcO
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    I called Scottish Tory surge the other night.

    Reminds me of the guy who was predicting I think seven Scottish Tory MPs at the GE.
    Almost like 102 UKIP MPs. ;)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    George Osborne's Christmas card this year is brilliant. #BBCDP https://t.co/OJwuRdBznl
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,788

    UK Elections
    Our forecast for #sp16 shows SNP will win 67 constituencies. In 2nd, the Conservatives on 5, with Labour on 0 seats. https://t.co/5ooe45HVcO

    would be hilarious!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Wanderer said:

    I suspect that Dan Hodges had only rejoined the Labour party in order to be able to leave it later.

    I didn't used to take him seriously. On 8th May one of my bleary-eyed breakfast resolutions was not to ignore Dan Hodges in future.
    Has he done his naked run yet?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Infinitely more pandas...

    UK Elections
    Our forecast for #sp16 shows SNP will win 67 constituencies. In 2nd, the Conservatives on 5, with Labour on 0 seats. https://t.co/5ooe45HVcO

    would be hilarious!!
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    I called Scottish Tory surge the other night.

    Reminds me of the guy who was predicting I think seven Scottish Tory MPs at the GE.
    I want royalties on "surging by standing still". Though that's a bit unfair; their May 2015 vote was undoubtedly depressed by Unionist tactical voting, and I do expect to see a pick-up in Holyrood % too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 15
    BBC are again making a big deal out of the fact the plod who shot the gun totting criminals last week has been suspended and a homicide investigation has begun. I was told on here that all the above is pretty standard, BBC claiming all this is very unusual, with a clear insinuation.

    I wonder what is going on...I am sure that the gun totting gang had connection to Mark Duggan has nothing to do with it.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Watching a Marco Rubio interview from last night. As always they sit on a set / background with a bookshelf behind them.

    Prominently over his shoulder - it's impossible to ignore it - is "The Picture of Dorian Gray".
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Infinitely more pandas...

    UK Elections
    Our forecast for #sp16 shows SNP will win 67 constituencies. In 2nd, the Conservatives on 5, with Labour on 0 seats. https://t.co/5ooe45HVcO

    would be hilarious!!
    Pandas - small Vauxhall police cars?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    I called Scottish Tory surge the other night.

    Reminds me of the guy who was predicting I think seven Scottish Tory MPs at the GE.
    I want royalties on "surging by standing still". Though that's a bit unfair; their May 2015 vote was undoubtedly depressed by Unionist tactical voting, and I do expect to see a pick-up in Holyrood % too.
    Edinburgh South is the only constituency with a hint of tactical voting in 2015.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Lolz
    Tim_B said:

    Watching a Marco Rubio interview from last night. As always they sit on a set / background with a bookshelf behind them.

    Prominently over his shoulder - it's impossible to ignore it - is "The Picture of Dorian Gray".

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 15
    Ah, did you miss all the piss taking from Labour that Tories had fewer MPs than Scotland had pandas?

    We've got the same single MP now. Labour having no MSPs is hilarious
    Tim_B said:

    Infinitely more pandas...

    UK Elections
    Our forecast for #sp16 shows SNP will win 67 constituencies. In 2nd, the Conservatives on 5, with Labour on 0 seats. https://t.co/5ooe45HVcO

    would be hilarious!!
    Pandas - small Vauxhall police cars?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744

    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    I called Scottish Tory surge the other night.

    Reminds me of the guy who was predicting I think seven Scottish Tory MPs at the GE.
    I want royalties on "surging by standing still". Though that's a bit unfair; their May 2015 vote was undoubtedly depressed by Unionist tactical voting, and I do expect to see a pick-up in Holyrood % too.
    I am quoting you in this weekend's piece on an unrelated topic, will that do?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744

    Ah, did you miss all the piss taking from Labour that Tories had fewer MPs than Scotland had pandas?

    We've got the same single MP now. Labour having no MSPs is hilarious

    Tim_B said:

    Infinitely more pandas...

    UK Elections
    Our forecast for #sp16 shows SNP will win 67 constituencies. In 2nd, the Conservatives on 5, with Labour on 0 seats. https://t.co/5ooe45HVcO

    would be hilarious!!
    Pandas - small Vauxhall police cars?
    Labour would still have MSPs.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    I called Scottish Tory surge the other night.

    Reminds me of the guy who was predicting I think seven Scottish Tory MPs at the GE.
    I want royalties on "surging by standing still". Though that's a bit unfair; their May 2015 vote was undoubtedly depressed by Unionist tactical voting, and I do expect to see a pick-up in Holyrood % too.
    Edinburgh South is the only constituency with a hint of tactical voting in 2015.
    Really? That's a big claim to make. It might have been the only seat where TV worked! Though that result was as much about the inadequacies of the SNP candidate as anything.

    Plenty of TV in Dunbartonshire East, for example.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I'm not seeing Dumfriesshire or Galloway and West Dumfries going Con. Especially given the lower vote share Cons get at Holyrood compared to Westminster.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Scott_P said:

    @paulhutcheon: Very bold prediction: Tories to win 5 fptp seats in Holyrood election https://t.co/YiuowEC45x

    I called Scottish Tory surge the other night.

    Reminds me of the guy who was predicting I think seven Scottish Tory MPs at the GE.
    I want royalties on "surging by standing still". Though that's a bit unfair; their May 2015 vote was undoubtedly depressed by Unionist tactical voting, and I do expect to see a pick-up in Holyrood % too.
    I am quoting you in this weekend's piece on an unrelated topic, will that do?
    Beggars can't be choosers, I suppose.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 15
    I didn't realise there is going to be a new Star Wars a year for at least the next 4-5 years. I know Disney paid a fortune for the rights and obviously were going to exploit that, but will be interesting if they can keep the quality up.

    For geeks, it really is going to be Christmas come early, every year...
This discussion has been closed.