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SystemSystem Posts: 12,293
edited 2015 20 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This weeks PB/Polling Matters podcast seeks to find out what UK Muslims really think about terrorism

On this week’s PB / Polling Matters podcast, Keiran speaks to Tom Mludzinski of ComRes about the firm’s polling among British Muslims earlier this year before speaking with Maria Sobolewska from the University of Manchester about her work looking at Muslim public opinion in the UK on terrorism and other issues.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    First!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,233
    CarlottaVance said:

    First!

    Damn and blast!!!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,233
    Paging the SNP:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/12006554/Goldman-eyes-20-oil-as-glut-overwhelms-storage-sites.html
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Paging the SNP:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/12006554/Goldman-eyes-20-oil-as-glut-overwhelms-storage-sites.html

    At this rate something will be worn under the kilt.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    Paging the SNP:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/12006554/Goldman-eyes-20-oil-as-glut-overwhelms-storage-sites.html

    At this rate something will be worn under the kilt.
    I'll have you know the prime Scottish meat and two veg are never "worn under the kilt" but kept in excellent condition.

    :smile:

  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (OT) Today is the 40th anniversary of the death of Franco. Judging by this report, he was lingering on the brink of death for several weeks before he finally went, and people were waiting for him to die.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34832801

    I am not old enough to remember the death or life of Franco, but I remember the lingering and prolonged death of Tito in 1980. I remember asking my parents why such an effort was being made to keep alive someone who had been in a coma for months, and they explained that the very fact he was alive was politically important. Presumably it was the same sort of thing in 1975 because people wouldn't have known whether Spain would continue with a dictatorship, go to democracy, or collapse in chaos.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    edited 2015 20
    JohnLoony said:

    (OT) Today is the 40th anniversary of the death of Franco. Judging by this report, he was lingering on the brink of death for several weeks before he finally went, and people were waiting for him to die.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34832801

    I am not old enough to remember the death or life of Franco, but I remember the lingering and prolonged death of Tito in 1980. I remember asking my parents why such an effort was being made to keep alive someone who had been in a coma for months, and they explained that the very fact he was alive was politically important. Presumably it was the same sort of thing in 1975 because people wouldn't have known whether Spain would continue with a dictatorship, go to democracy, or collapse in chaos.

    I went with a school trip to see Romeo and Juliet at the Sheffield Crucible the day Franco died.

    Strange what sticks in the memory.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited 2015 20
    Domestic fuel is less than half what it was a few yrs ago, at its most expensive I think I had to pay 68p a litre.. Orders this week from our syndicate were priced at 28p.

    That's saved me about 1500 a year and more if the price drops further..

    There were some amazing local election results last night.. Corbyn isn't turning out to be the saviour of Labour... but then again few thought he would be.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    MarqueeMark said:

    JohnLoony said:

    (OT) Today is the 40th anniversary of the death of Franco. Judging by this report, he was lingering on the brink of death for several weeks before he finally went, and people were waiting for him to die.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34832801

    I am not old enough to remember the death or life of Franco, but I remember the lingering and prolonged death of Tito in 1980. I remember asking my parents why such an effort was being made to keep alive someone who had been in a coma for months, and they explained that the very fact he was alive was politically important. Presumably it was the same sort of thing in 1975 because people wouldn't have known whether Spain would continue with a dictatorship, go to democracy, or collapse in chaos.

    I went with a school trip to see Romeo and Juliet at the Sheffield Crucible the day Franco died.

    Strange what sticks in the memory.
    I was on a school trip to London Zoo on the day that President Sadat of Egypt was assassinated. We didn't get back until later than usual, so I missed John Craven's Newsround that day. I didn't find out that Sadat had been killed until the evening of the next day, because nobody in my family thought to tell me.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,353
    edited 2015 20
    JohnLoony said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    JohnLoony said:

    (OT) Today is the 40th anniversary of the death of Franco. Judging by this report, he was lingering on the brink of death for several weeks before he finally went, and people were waiting for him to die.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34832801

    I am not old enough to remember the death or life of Franco, but I remember the lingering and prolonged death of Tito in 1980. I remember asking my parents why such an effort was being made to keep alive someone who had been in a coma for months, and they explained that the very fact he was alive was politically important. Presumably it was the same sort of thing in 1975 because people wouldn't have known whether Spain would continue with a dictatorship, go to democracy, or collapse in chaos.

    I went with a school trip to see Romeo and Juliet at the Sheffield Crucible the day Franco died.

    Strange what sticks in the memory.
    I was on a school trip to London Zoo on the day that President Sadat of Egypt was assassinated. We didn't get back until later than usual, so I missed John Craven's Newsround that day. I didn't find out that Sadat had been killed until the evening of the next day, because nobody in my family thought to tell me.
    In contrast my 12 year old mentioned Paris on Saturday morning. I gently asked what he knew about the horrors of Paris and equally gently he explained to me that #prayersforParis was trending world wide, was on almost every video he watched about anything and that all of the details were being discussed on social media.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    I was flying back from Nairobi to London overnight when Kenyatta died. Later that summer I was travelling from Paris to London when Pope John Paul 1 died. And I still remember the party I was at on the day the assassination attempt was made on John Paul II.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,353
    RobD said:

    Paging the SNP:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/12006554/Goldman-eyes-20-oil-as-glut-overwhelms-storage-sites.html

    I am not really sure why people find this a source of amusement. In the latest unemployment figures, which were really good for the UK as a whole, unemployment went up in Scotland by 11,000.

    The knock on consequences for the Scottish economy are increasingly severe not just in the direct job losses but also in the lost earnings from many of what were the best paid jobs in the economy. Wages for contractors have been falling very fast, even for those lucky enough to keep their jobs, and it is affecting everything else. Sales figures in Scottish shops are very poor at the moment.

    UKplc should gain from the glut but Scotland has and will continue to suffer significantly from this. One is tempted to observe, yet again, that Doctors just don't seem to have a clue how lucky they are.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JackW said:

    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    Paging the SNP:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/12006554/Goldman-eyes-20-oil-as-glut-overwhelms-storage-sites.html

    At this rate something will be worn under the kilt.
    I'll have you know the prime Scottish meat and two veg are never "worn under the kilt" but kept in excellent condition.

    :smile:

    Pristine condition and unused.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    Interesting podcast. Thanks Keiran et al
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    Today is the 25th anniversary of the first round of the 1990 Tory leadership election.

    Is what got me interested in politics. I was twelve at the time. One of the side effects of attending an all boys school.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,353
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting podcast. Thanks Keiran et al

    I just never have the time to listen to these which is a shame as they have interesting topics. I sometimes glean the main points from the discussion on the thread but a few bullet points would be helpful to those of us who read PB in places where you can't listen to it.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sadiq has a crunchy intv in Indy today http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-labours-mayoral-candidate-for-london-says-muslims-must-root-out-cancer-of-radicalisation-a6741141.html
    Mr Khan recalled that when he worked as a lawyer he had the “horrible” task of representing people with extremist views: “I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had to challenge the hideous views of seemingly intelligent and articulate people. People who look and sound like normal Londoners, until they say that 9/11 was a Mossad [Israeli secret service] conspiracy, that the Jewish workers in the Twin Towers were tipped off and escaped.”
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 20
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12004756/Paris-attacks-Abdelhamid-Abaaoud-police-France-terrorist-Islamic-State-flight-live.html#update-20151120-0518
    Swedish police on Thursday arrested a man suspected of plotting a "terrorist attack" after a two-day manhunt, as the country steps up security after last week's carnage in Paris.
    and
    The Canadian government is considering building special camps for Syrian refugees.

    A spokesman for the government in Ottawa confirmed that a tender notice has been issued for the construction of temporary “winterised lodgings” for groups of 500 to 3,000 people.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :+1:
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting podcast. Thanks Keiran et al

    I just never have the time to listen to these which is a shame as they have interesting topics. I sometimes glean the main points from the discussion on the thread but a few bullet points would be helpful to those of us who read PB in places where you can't listen to it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    @patrickwintour: Umunna calls for Corbyn to allow a free vote on Syria and says Livingstone should stand aside as co chair of Labour defence review.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    JackW said:

    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    Paging the SNP:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/12006554/Goldman-eyes-20-oil-as-glut-overwhelms-storage-sites.html

    At this rate something will be worn under the kilt.
    I'll have you know the prime Scottish meat and two veg are never "worn under the kilt" but kept in excellent condition.

    :smile:

    Do you mean to say JackW that under your kilt it's all just MASH? ;)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    Chuka talking sense

    @JeremyCliffe: Reality check from @ChukaUmunna on Today: "If you cannot keep the people safe, in their eyes that's a disqualification from office."
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    NickPalmer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:


    I popped into my local library a few years ago. I presented my card which they had issued in 1976 and was told that it was no longer valid.


    That's disappointing. Longevity ought to be accorded the respect it deserves.
    I always liked Barclays Bank's response when an enterprising researcher asked to see Lord Nelson's bank account records - had he given money to Lady Hamilton, had he spent a lot on wine? Barclays said icily,

    "Our clients' records are confidential. This does not change with the passage of time."


    That's actually rather disappointing and obnoxious. I suspect it's made up, or at least a junior member of staff who thought they were being clever. Alternatively it may just have been the "researcher" was a sensationalist rather than a serious academic.

    We've had a few well known clients come through our shop over the years like Pepys, North, Byron, etc. As a general rule we will share client records with serious academics once a full century has passed (i.e. we will share anything from the 19th century at the moment, but if you want to look at our papers from the 20th century you'll need to wait another 85 years - shall I sign you up for the first appointment @JackW?)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting podcast. Thanks Keiran et al

    I just never have the time to listen to these which is a shame as they have interesting topics. I sometimes glean the main points from the discussion on the thread but a few bullet points would be helpful to those of us who read PB in places where you can't listen to it.
    I'll mention that to Keiran
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    JohnLoony said:

    (OT) Today is the 40th anniversary of the death of Franco. Judging by this report, he was lingering on the brink of death for several weeks before he finally went, and people were waiting for him to die.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34832801

    I am not old enough to remember the death or life of Franco, but I remember the lingering and prolonged death of Tito in 1980. I remember asking my parents why such an effort was being made to keep alive someone who had been in a coma for months, and they explained that the very fact he was alive was politically important. Presumably it was the same sort of thing in 1975 because people wouldn't have known whether Spain would continue with a dictatorship, go to democracy, or collapse in chaos.

    Yep, the Generalissimo took a while to pop his clogs. He lingered for many weeks. This is how his death was announced on Spanish TV:

    http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/fue-noticia-en-el-archivo-de-rtve/espanoles-franco-muerto/362530/

    The assumption was that Juan Carlos would be a puppet of the Spanish military,. But he turned out to have a mind of his own and to have been planning for the day for a while. He appointed Suarez as his PM and the rest is history: parties from across the spectrum - left, right, nationalist and regionalist - came together to create a democratic constitution that was then endorsed with massive majorities across the whole of Spain.

    Now, as a result of the economic crash and a pig-headed, Spanish nationalist PP government in Madrid, that settlement is unravelling.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,243
    Could be Dan writing this...

    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour

    gets a shellacking in the comments, ofc.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Great news. The Mail's been badgering for this for ages along with others like Camilla Cavendish, Times passim.
    The country’s most secretive courts are to throw open their doors at last, judges declared yesterday.

    The Court of Protection system, which decides on the fate of people too ill to make decisions for themselves, is to hold a six-month transparency trial. It means ordinary members of the public will be allowed into the hearings for the first time.

    The move to end the secrecy surrounding the courts follows a series of controverisal cases which in some cases have shielded wrongdoers from public exposure.

    Among the worst examples was a case in 2013 in which a Court of Protection judge sentenced a woman to jail for contempt over her attempts to release her father from a care home without anyone being allowed to know her name or details of her offence.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3326372/Victory-Daily-Mail-Court-Protection-following-controversial-cases.html#ixzz3s16qdKJf
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Good morning, everyone.

    Just over a week until the last free-to-air F1 race weekend might begin.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    edited 2015 20
    TOPPING said:

    Could be Dan writing this...

    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour

    gets a shellacking in the comments, ofc.

    But he is absolutely correct.

    The Corbyn left will bow to no-one when it comes to delusion.

    Corbyn is the agent of change, not the endgame. He will try to hold on as leader until the way Labour is organised and how it chooses its leader are changed.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,243
    edited 2015 20
    SouthamObserver said:

    TOPPING said:

    Could be Dan writing this...

    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour

    gets a shellacking in the comments, ofc.

    But he is absolutely correct.

    The Corbyn left will bow to no-one when it comes to delusion.

    Yep - odious or not he certainly has apolitical acuity.

    (Edit: McBride, not Jezza!!!)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    I am delighted to announce that Sunday's threads have been written.

    Thread 1) Contains a discussion about AV and also allows me to give PB several history lessons. This is not the magnum opus on AV, that will appear later in the year.

    Thread 2) Contains zombies
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    A broadcast on BBC radio 4 about half an hour ago from a local Portsmouth Labour party meeting, has shown how the new Corbynite membership is crowding out and displacing the old. Chilling in it's ordinariness. Is this happening all over the country? And if so will the old Labourites just accept it, leave the party or try and form a new body?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    @SouthamObserver

    Have you seen the latest Spanish opinion polls: another one puts citizens ahead of the socialists
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Has there ever been a political party in the history of the UK that has been in such a mess? Even under IDS the Tories were not as hopeless.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    SquareRoot said:

    Domestic fuel is less than half what it was a few yrs ago, at its most expensive I think I had to pay 68p a litre.. Orders this week from our syndicate were priced at 28p.

    That's saved me about 1500 a year and more if the price drops further..

    There were some amazing local election results last night.. Corbyn isn't turning out to be the saviour of Labour... but then again few thought he would be.

    These seem the most interesting with large swings:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 8h8 hours ago
    South Smallburgh (Norfolk) result:
    LDEM - 56.4% (+25.8)
    CON - 28.4% (-1.0)
    UKIP - 8.9% (-17.8)
    LAB - 4.2% (-5.3)
    GRN - 2.1% (-1.6)

    Kidwelly (Carmarthenshire) result:
    LAB: 33.8% (-10.6)
    PC: 29.1% (+29.1)
    IND: 20.8% (+20.8)
    PF: 6.8% (-16.5)
    CON: 6.2% (+6.2)
    IND: 3.3%

    Watton (Norfolk) result:
    CON - 45.6% (+18.2) Gain from UKIP, no candidate!
    IND - 44.0% (+20.4)
    LAB - 5.8% (-5.4)
    GRN - 4.5% (+0.3)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    Is official. All the Home Nations are now coached by Southern Hemisphere coaches.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,817
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I am delighted to announce that Sunday's threads have been written.

    Thread 1) Contains a discussion about AV and also allows me to give PB several history lessons. This is not the magnum opus on AV, that will appear later in the year.

    Thread 2) Contains zombies

    Good grief. AV and the Lib Dems in one weekend!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,353
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Is official. All the Home Nations are now coached by Southern Hemisphere coaches.

    Well, in fairness, that would seem a logical conclusion from the line up of the semis in the RWC. We all have much to learn.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    edited 2015 20
    SquareRoot said:

    Has there ever been a political party in the history of the UK that has been in such a mess? Even under IDS the Tories were not as hopeless.

    Under IDS Labour now actually had a slightly larger lead over the Tories than the Tories do over Labour at this stage. Michael Foot and William Hague also polled less than Corbyn is polling now
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Is official. All the Home Nations are now coached by Southern Hemisphere coaches.

    Well, in fairness, that would seem a logical conclusion from the line up of the semis in the RWC. We all have much to learn.
    But twelve years ago we won the World Cup with a home grown coach. Where has it all gone wrong ?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    rcs1000 said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Have you seen the latest Spanish opinion polls: another one puts citizens ahead of the socialists

    I have. But PSOE is projected to get more seats. What we know for sure is that PP is going to lose its absolute majority and, if it stays in government, will be severely constrained by its significant drop in support. That can only be a good thing. I still think that if Ciudadanos does come second there is a chance it will prefer to do a deal with PSOE than support PP. For the Spanish nationalist PP the deal over Catalonia that C's will demand may be a step too far. Having largely caused the constitutional crisis, PP may be best off stepping aside and letting others solve it.

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Has there ever been a political party in the history of the UK that has been in such a mess? Even under IDS the Tories were not as hopeless.

    Under IDS Labour now actually had a slightly larger lead over the Tories than the Tories do over Labour at this stage. Michael Foot and William Hague also polled less than Corbyn is polling now
    If you believe the polls.. I don't, nor did I at the GE , I knew something was badly wrong but didn't know why. Nor do the polling co's who have yet to report. Believing any poll right now is less than sub optimal.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    logical_song said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Domestic fuel is less than half what it was a few yrs ago, at its most expensive I think I had to pay 68p a litre.. Orders this week from our syndicate were priced at 28p.

    That's saved me about 1500 a year and more if the price drops further..

    There were some amazing local election results last night.. Corbyn isn't turning out to be the saviour of Labour... but then again few thought he would be.

    These seem the most interesting with large swings:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 8h8 hours ago
    South Smallburgh (Norfolk) result:
    LDEM - 56.4% (+25.8)
    CON - 28.4% (-1.0)
    UKIP - 8.9% (-17.8)
    LAB - 4.2% (-5.3)
    GRN - 2.1% (-1.6)

    Kidwelly (Carmarthenshire) result:
    LAB: 33.8% (-10.6)
    PC: 29.1% (+29.1)
    IND: 20.8% (+20.8)
    PF: 6.8% (-16.5)
    CON: 6.2% (+6.2)
    IND: 3.3%

    Watton (Norfolk) result:
    CON - 45.6% (+18.2) Gain from UKIP, no candidate!
    IND - 44.0% (+20.4)
    LAB - 5.8% (-5.4)
    GRN - 4.5% (+0.3)
    Missed this one:
    Aylesford Green (Ashford) result:
    CON: 23.5% (-21.5)
    UKIP: 23.2% (+23.2)
    LAB: 22.6% (-32.4)
    AI: 19.6% (+19.6)
    LD: 9.0% (+9.0)
    GRN: 2.1%
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598
    edited 2015 20
    Charles said:

    NickPalmer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:


    I popped into my local library a few years ago. I presented my card which they had issued in 1976 and was told that it was no longer valid.


    That's disappointing. Longevity ought to be accorded the respect it deserves.
    I always liked Barclays Bank's response when an enterprising researcher asked to see Lord Nelson's bank account records - had he given money to Lady Hamilton, had he spent a lot on wine? Barclays said icily,

    "Our clients' records are confidential. This does not change with the passage of time."


    That's actually rather disappointing and obnoxious. I suspect it's made up, or at least a junior member of staff who thought they were being clever. Alternatively it may just have been the "researcher" was a sensationalist rather than a serious academic.

    We've had a few well known clients come through our shop over the years like Pepys, North, Byron, etc. As a general rule we will share client records with serious academics once a full century has passed (i.e. we will share anything from the 19th century at the moment, but if you want to look at our papers from the 20th century you'll need to wait another 85 years - shall I sign you up for the first appointment @JackW?)
    As I recall the researcher was a journalist. Personally I thought it was a great response - very British in flavour and made a serious point too. I can see a case for historians poking around but I like the idea that when they say confidential they mean it, forever.

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Is official. All the Home Nations are now coached by Southern Hemisphere coaches.

    Well, in fairness, that would seem a logical conclusion from the line up of the semis in the RWC. We all have much to learn.
    But twelve years ago we won the World Cup with a home grown coach. Where has it all gone wrong ?
    Did you know Woodward played rugby alongside Ian Duncan-Smith?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited 2015 20
    Another set of atrocious local election results for Labour.

    Week after week their vote is capitulating.

    Game on for the Lib Dems on the left, and UKIP on the right for Labour people who would never vote Corbyn or Conservative.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Is official. All the Home Nations are now coached by Southern Hemisphere coaches.

    Well, in fairness, that would seem a logical conclusion from the line up of the semis in the RWC. We all have much to learn.
    But twelve years ago we won the World Cup with a home grown coach. Where has it all gone wrong ?
    Much as with Wenger at Arsenal, much of what Woodward did was revolutionary. The rest of the world has now caught up.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Jonathan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I am delighted to announce that Sunday's threads have been written.

    Thread 1) Contains a discussion about AV and also allows me to give PB several history lessons. This is not the magnum opus on AV, that will appear later in the year.

    Thread 2) Contains zombies

    Good grief. AV and the Lib Dems in one weekend!
    Good candidate for POTD!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited 2015 20
    Damian McBride on what Jeremy Corbyn is doing:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour

    His penultimate paragraph is entirely at odds with the rest of his article. It looks like wishful thinking to me.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Has there ever been a political party in the history of the UK that has been in such a mess? Even under IDS the Tories were not as hopeless.

    Under IDS Labour now actually had a slightly larger lead over the Tories than the Tories do over Labour at this stage. Michael Foot and William Hague also polled less than Corbyn is polling now
    It's not always about polling
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    logical_song said:

    logical_song said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Domestic fuel is less than half what it was a few yrs ago, at its most expensive I think I had to pay 68p a litre.. Orders this week from our syndicate were priced at 28p.

    That's saved me about 1500 a year and more if the price drops further..

    There were some amazing local election results last night.. Corbyn isn't turning out to be the saviour of Labour... but then again few thought he would be.

    These seem the most interesting with large swings:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 8h8 hours ago
    South Smallburgh (Norfolk) result:
    LDEM - 56.4% (+25.8)
    CON - 28.4% (-1.0)
    UKIP - 8.9% (-17.8)
    LAB - 4.2% (-5.3)
    GRN - 2.1% (-1.6)

    Kidwelly (Carmarthenshire) result:
    LAB: 33.8% (-10.6)
    PC: 29.1% (+29.1)
    IND: 20.8% (+20.8)
    PF: 6.8% (-16.5)
    CON: 6.2% (+6.2)
    IND: 3.3%

    Watton (Norfolk) result:
    CON - 45.6% (+18.2) Gain from UKIP, no candidate!
    IND - 44.0% (+20.4)
    LAB - 5.8% (-5.4)
    GRN - 4.5% (+0.3)
    Missed this one:
    Aylesford Green (Ashford) result:
    CON: 23.5% (-21.5)
    UKIP: 23.2% (+23.2)
    LAB: 22.6% (-32.4)
    AI: 19.6% (+19.6)
    LD: 9.0% (+9.0)
    GRN: 2.1%
    That Ashford one is a corker. Near enough a four-way marginal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    Casino_Royale said:

    logical_song said:

    logical_song said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Domestic fuel is less than half what it was a few yrs ago, at its most expensive I think I had to pay 68p a litre.. Orders this week from our syndicate were priced at 28p.

    That's saved me about 1500 a year and more if the price drops further..

    There were some amazing local election results last night.. Corbyn isn't turning out to be the saviour of Labour... but then again few thought he would be.

    These seem the most interesting with large swings:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 8h8 hours ago
    South Smallburgh (Norfolk) result:
    LDEM - 56.4% (+25.8)
    CON - 28.4% (-1.0)
    UKIP - 8.9% (-17.8)
    LAB - 4.2% (-5.3)
    GRN - 2.1% (-1.6)

    Kidwelly (Carmarthenshire) result:
    LAB: 33.8% (-10.6)
    PC: 29.1% (+29.1)
    IND: 20.8% (+20.8)
    PF: 6.8% (-16.5)
    CON: 6.2% (+6.2)
    IND: 3.3%

    Watton (Norfolk) result:
    CON - 45.6% (+18.2) Gain from UKIP, no candidate!
    IND - 44.0% (+20.4)
    LAB - 5.8% (-5.4)
    GRN - 4.5% (+0.3)
    Missed this one:
    Aylesford Green (Ashford) result:
    CON: 23.5% (-21.5)
    UKIP: 23.2% (+23.2)
    LAB: 22.6% (-32.4)
    AI: 19.6% (+19.6)
    LD: 9.0% (+9.0)
    GRN: 2.1%
    That Ashford one is a corker. Near enough a four-way marginal.
    Only four votes between first and third

    @britainelects: Aylesford Green (Ashford) vote result:
    CON: 110
    UKIP: 109
    LAB: 106
    AI: 92
    LDEM: 42
    GRN: 10
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Wow! I missed this last night. Glorious invective from @afneil on his finest form ever. https://t.co/yExMyY9Y3C
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    F1: nice piece by McNish on Verstappen, and Sainz:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/34871338
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Fraser Nelson
    And for those asking about the quality of jobs created over last five years... https://t.co/30sEicpnSp https://t.co/mXjDjfNM1L
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    logical_song said:

    logical_song said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Domestic fuel is less than half what it was a few yrs ago, at its most expensive I think I had to pay 68p a litre.. Orders this week from our syndicate were priced at 28p.

    That's saved me about 1500 a year and more if the price drops further..

    There were some amazing local election results last night.. Corbyn isn't turning out to be the saviour of Labour... but then again few thought he would be.

    These seem the most interesting with large swings:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 8h8 hours ago
    South Smallburgh (Norfolk) result:
    LDEM - 56.4% (+25.8)
    CON - 28.4% (-1.0)
    UKIP - 8.9% (-17.8)
    LAB - 4.2% (-5.3)
    GRN - 2.1% (-1.6)

    Kidwelly (Carmarthenshire) result:
    LAB: 33.8% (-10.6)
    PC: 29.1% (+29.1)
    IND: 20.8% (+20.8)
    PF: 6.8% (-16.5)
    CON: 6.2% (+6.2)
    IND: 3.3%

    Watton (Norfolk) result:
    CON - 45.6% (+18.2) Gain from UKIP, no candidate!
    IND - 44.0% (+20.4)
    LAB - 5.8% (-5.4)
    GRN - 4.5% (+0.3)
    Missed this one:
    Aylesford Green (Ashford) result:
    CON: 23.5% (-21.5)
    UKIP: 23.2% (+23.2)
    LAB: 22.6% (-32.4)
    AI: 19.6% (+19.6)
    LD: 9.0% (+9.0)
    GRN: 2.1%
    That Ashford one is a corker. Near enough a four-way marginal.
    Only four votes between first and third

    @britainelects: Aylesford Green (Ashford) vote result:
    CON: 110
    UKIP: 109
    LAB: 106
    AI: 92
    LDEM: 42
    GRN: 10
    Almost a bit 'rotten borough' - whom do me and my family wish to see elected here?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Meanwhile, New Zealand has a flag vote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34876354

    Seems odd to me.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    logical_song said:

    logical_song said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Domestic fuel is less than half what it was a few yrs ago, at its most expensive I think I had to pay 68p a litre.. Orders this week from our syndicate were priced at 28p.

    That's saved me about 1500 a year and more if the price drops further..

    There were some amazing local election results last night.. Corbyn isn't turning out to be the saviour of Labour... but then again few thought he would be.

    These seem the most interesting with large swings:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 8h8 hours ago
    South Smallburgh (Norfolk) result:
    LDEM - 56.4% (+25.8)
    CON - 28.4% (-1.0)
    UKIP - 8.9% (-17.8)
    LAB - 4.2% (-5.3)
    GRN - 2.1% (-1.6)

    Kidwelly (Carmarthenshire) result:
    LAB: 33.8% (-10.6)
    PC: 29.1% (+29.1)
    IND: 20.8% (+20.8)
    PF: 6.8% (-16.5)
    CON: 6.2% (+6.2)
    IND: 3.3%

    Watton (Norfolk) result:
    CON - 45.6% (+18.2) Gain from UKIP, no candidate!
    IND - 44.0% (+20.4)
    LAB - 5.8% (-5.4)
    GRN - 4.5% (+0.3)
    Missed this one:
    Aylesford Green (Ashford) result:
    CON: 23.5% (-21.5)
    UKIP: 23.2% (+23.2)
    LAB: 22.6% (-32.4)
    AI: 19.6% (+19.6)
    LD: 9.0% (+9.0)
    GRN: 2.1%
    That Ashford one is a corker. Near enough a four-way marginal.
    Only four votes between first and third

    @britainelects: Aylesford Green (Ashford) vote result:
    CON: 110
    UKIP: 109
    LAB: 106
    AI: 92
    LDEM: 42
    GRN: 10
    Yes, I'd only looked at percentages. It seems less interesting when you see the actual number of votes cast. Comapare with:

    South Smallburgh (Norfolk) vote result:
    LDEM: 1383
    CON: 697
    UKIP: 219
    LAB: 103
    GRN: 52
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Everyone will focus on Labour's vote crashing in that Ashford by-election, but so did the Conservatives'. Presumably only the big two competed last time. Even so, the drops in vote shares are epic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Charles said:

    JackW said:

    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    Paging the SNP:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/12006554/Goldman-eyes-20-oil-as-glut-overwhelms-storage-sites.html

    At this rate something will be worn under the kilt.
    I'll have you know the prime Scottish meat and two veg are never "worn under the kilt" but kept in excellent condition.

    :smile:

    Pristine condition and unused.
    Surely 'One careful owner' (of record).....
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Everyone will focus on Labour's vote crashing in that Ashford by-election, but so did the Conservatives'. Presumably only the big two competed last time. Even so, the drops in vote shares are epic.

    Number of votes involved, not so epic.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    Dan Hodges Retweeted
    Michael Savage ‏@michaelsavage 50m50 minutes ago
    .@ChukaUmunna calls out the #newpolitics - says Labour MPs being hit with deselection threats from a "troll form" of politics.

    Troll politics. I had to laugh at that one.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Borough, so Labour must be saved by a trio of intrepid billy-goats endowed with a heroic yet gruff disposition?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,243
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Meanwhile, New Zealand has a flag vote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34876354

    Seems odd to me.

    was quite funny - bloke on R4 saying that NZ PM sick of going to conferences and being sat under the Australian flag...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Borough, so Labour must be saved by a trio of intrepid billy-goats endowed with a heroic yet gruff disposition?

    Looks that way. But who are they? I know Lloyd George was referred to as 'The Goat'.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Do they charge bridge tolls? :wink:
    rottenborough said:

    Dan Hodges Retweeted
    Michael Savage ‏@michaelsavage 50m50 minutes ago
    .@ChukaUmunna calls out the #newpolitics - says Labour MPs being hit with deselection threats from a "troll form" of politics.

    Troll politics. I had to laugh at that one.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Has there ever been a political party in the history of the UK that has been in such a mess? Even under IDS the Tories were not as hopeless.

    Under IDS Labour now actually had a slightly larger lead over the Tories than the Tories do over Labour at this stage. Michael Foot and William Hague also polled less than Corbyn is polling now
    It's not always about polling
    To an extent it is as that is what determines a party's performance. Labour are roughly where the Tories were under IDS, Labour under Foot and the Tories under Hague were in a worse state in opposition
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Topping, if he can't recognise his own flag that's his bloody problem!

    Honestly, a man unable to recognise his own flag wanting to change the country's flag rather than just learn what it looks like is a man of considerable ill judgement.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Breaking: gunmen attack a hotel in Mali:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34877069
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    SouthamObserver said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Have you seen the latest Spanish opinion polls: another one puts citizens ahead of the socialists

    I have. But PSOE is projected to get more seats. What we know for sure is that PP is going to lose its absolute majority and, if it stays in government, will be severely constrained by its significant drop in support. That can only be a good thing. I still think that if Ciudadanos does come second there is a chance it will prefer to do a deal with PSOE than support PP. For the Spanish nationalist PP the deal over Catalonia that C's will demand may be a step too far. Having largely caused the constitutional crisis, PP may be best off stepping aside and letting others solve it.

    No as Citizens want to cut the top tax rate and control spending PSOE voters would flock to Podemos if they did
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    The Ashford shares are almost meaningless with such a small number of votes cast. Each vote is worth 0.3%!
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Topping, if he can't recognise his own flag that's his bloody problem!

    Honestly, a man unable to recognise his own flag wanting to change the country's flag rather than just learn what it looks like is a man of considerable ill judgement.

    Sound of Point Being Missed.
    I think he was saying that the organisers got mixed up with the Aus and NZ flags. In a similar way that sometimes the Union flag gets hung upside down or occasionally the wrong national anthem of a country gets played.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3016712/El-Salvador-players-fans-stunned-stadium-plays-wrong-national-anthem-ahead-friendly-against-Argentina.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    edited 2015 20
    SquareRoot said:

    HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Has there ever been a political party in the history of the UK that has been in such a mess? Even under IDS the Tories were not as hopeless.

    Under IDS Labour now actually had a slightly larger lead over the Tories than the Tories do over Labour at this stage. Michael Foot and William Hague also polled less than Corbyn is polling now
    If you believe the polls.. I don't, nor did I at the GE , I knew something was badly wrong but didn't know why. Nor do the polling co's who have yet to report. Believing any poll right now is less than sub optimal.
    Apart from Comres which has Labour on 29% most polls have Labour above the 30% they got in May but then most polls also have the Tories above the 37% they got in May too so the net result is no change, Labour have squeezed the Greens the Tories UKIP and both have further squeezed the LDs. Most polls have adjusted post election to reflect likelihood to vote etc
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    SouthamObserver said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Have you seen the latest Spanish opinion polls: another one puts citizens ahead of the socialists

    I have. But PSOE is projected to get more seats. What we know for sure is that PP is going to lose its absolute majority and, if it stays in government, will be severely constrained by its significant drop in support. That can only be a good thing. I still think that if Ciudadanos does come second there is a chance it will prefer to do a deal with PSOE than support PP. For the Spanish nationalist PP the deal over Catalonia that C's will demand may be a step too far. Having largely caused the constitutional crisis, PP may be best off stepping aside and letting others solve it.

    I think a PSOE deal could be constrained by the fact that citizens will fell they won (more votes), while PSOE will feel they won (more seats).

    Podemos could well end up with very few seats.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Song, ahem, or a point was deliberately missed for comedic purposes :p
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    not_on_fire said:

    The Ashford shares are almost meaningless with such a small number of votes cast. Each vote is worth 0.3%!

    Compared with 0.04% in South Smallburgh.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Song, ahem, or a point was deliberately missed for comedic purposes :p

    Aaah!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Another 'I'm sorry if you were offended' apology coming up.......

    http://news.sky.com/story/1591053/tom-watson-to-apologise-to-leon-brittans-widow
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,047
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Meanwhile, New Zealand has a flag vote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34876354

    Seems odd to me.

    The process seems sneaky to me. Asked to pick which of five new designs they like, and then in a second referendum if they want to change to it. Clearly designed to get people invested in anew resign rather than opening with if they want to change the old one.

    Not that I dislike the new d signs but still, a waste of money if the second vote is no.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Plato_Says said:

    Fraser Nelson
    And for those asking about the quality of jobs created over last five years... https://t.co/30sEicpnSp https://t.co/mXjDjfNM1L

    Where does Nelson talk about quality? All I can find is a celebration of dismissals as "fair"...

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Everyone will focus on Labour's vote crashing in that Ashford by-election, but so did the Conservatives'. Presumably only the big two competed last time. Even so, the drops in vote shares are epic.

    It's part of a trend of significant chunks of the Labour vote vanishing.

    Carmathen, Shropshire, Norfolk, Kent, Dorset - all in the last fortnight.

    The Labour vote is retreating to London and areas of high ethnic concentration.

    The writing is already on the wall.


  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chuka talking sense

    @JeremyCliffe: Reality check from @ChukaUmunna on Today: "If you cannot keep the people safe, in their eyes that's a disqualification from office."

    "in their eyes" - should be in the politicians eyes too.

    How many times - the FIRST duty of any government.............
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. kle4, indeed. Could just ask both questions together.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chuka talking sense

    @JeremyCliffe: Reality check from @ChukaUmunna on Today: "If you cannot keep the people safe, in their eyes that's a disqualification from office."

    Ouch

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007050/Chuka-Umunna-Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-Syria-vote.html

    "Mr Ummuna told the BBC's Today programme this morning that he will vote with his "conscience" on airstrikes in Syria regardless of Jeremy Corbyn and his "nasty troll" supporters. "
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    Floater said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chuka talking sense

    @JeremyCliffe: Reality check from @ChukaUmunna on Today: "If you cannot keep the people safe, in their eyes that's a disqualification from office."

    "in their eyes" - should be in the politicians eyes too.

    How many times - the FIRST duty of any government.............
    Alternative history buffs out there: what would have happened if Chukka had stood for leader this time around? I suspect we would have had the same result, but who knows?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    chestnut said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Everyone will focus on Labour's vote crashing in that Ashford by-election, but so did the Conservatives'. Presumably only the big two competed last time. Even so, the drops in vote shares are epic.

    It's part of a trend of significant chunks of the Labour vote vanishing.

    Carmathen, Shropshire, Norfolk, Kent, Dorset - all in the last fortnight.

    The Labour vote is retreating to London and areas of high ethnic concentration.

    The writing is already on the wall.


    Perhaps. But many local elections involve local debates and factors that it is difficult to discern from a distance. We need a nation-wide vote to be sure that Corbyn is already having a chilling effect, as seems highly likely.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Meanwhile, New Zealand has a flag vote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34876354

    Seems odd to me.

    The black and blue one with the fern and southern cross seems like a great choice. I do hope it wins this round as I think it would beat the current flag.

    The Butchers Apron needs consigned to the dustbin of history.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,353
    edited 2015 20
    It does seem to me that the only disqualification from civil war in the Labour Party at the moment is that neither side would be capable of organising their way out of a wet paper bag. The most vicious insult they can throw at the opposing side is to accuse them of being ruthless. Unpleasant, absolutely, obnoxious beyond doubt, but ruthlessness has an implication that you know what you are doing which is not evident at all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    Dair said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Meanwhile, New Zealand has a flag vote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34876354

    Seems odd to me.

    The black and blue one with the fern and southern cross seems like a great choice. I do hope it wins this round as I think it would beat the current flag.

    The Butchers Apron needs consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Polls show the present flag will win
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,047
    edited 2015 20
    Dair said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Meanwhile, New Zealand has a flag vote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34876354

    Seems odd to me.

    The black and blue one with the fern and southern cross seems like a great choice. I do hope it wins this round as I think it would beat the current flag.

    The Butchers Apron needs consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Bit early to be so obvious with the trolling isn't it?

    Still, if that's the way. Ahem - I think Scottish people should be slaves.

    There, that should give you something to get pretend angry at.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    rottenborough said:

    chestnut said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Everyone will focus on Labour's vote crashing in that Ashford by-election, but so did the Conservatives'. Presumably only the big two competed last time. Even so, the drops in vote shares are epic.

    It's part of a trend of significant chunks of the Labour vote vanishing.

    Carmathen, Shropshire, Norfolk, Kent, Dorset - all in the last fortnight.

    The Labour vote is retreating to London and areas of high ethnic concentration.

    The writing is already on the wall.


    Perhaps. But many local elections involve local debates and factors that it is difficult to discern from a distance. We need a nation-wide vote to be sure that Corbyn is already having a chilling effect, as seems highly likely.
    Does anyone know of a site that collates all local by-election results, so we can see whether there is a trend.
    The impression I get is that Labour is down a touch, Tories about the same UKIP down by 10% or more LibDems up about the same, Greens down 4 or 5%, but it would be good to have the facts. Maybe BritainElects will do that at some stage.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Few flags top the Union Jack as a style icon. Personally, I think Brazil's is awful.
    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Meanwhile, New Zealand has a flag vote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34876354

    Seems odd to me.

    The black and blue one with the fern and southern cross seems like a great choice. I do hope it wins this round as I think it would beat the current flag.

    The Butchers Apron needs consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Bit early to be so obvious with the trolling isn't it?

    Still, if that's the way. Ahem - I think Scottish people should be slaves.

    There, that should give you something to get pretend angry at.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    Without comment:
    Thanks largely to this parsimonious funding, the NHS is rated by most economists as highly efficient. Yet the OECD’s latest “Health at a Glance 2015” report finds that its record on patient care is not that impressive. On a range of indicators, from fatalities after heart attacks to asthma admission rates to cervical, breast and colorectal cancer survival rates, Britain does badly compared with other rich countries. The NHS is also missing many of its own targets for such things as accident and emergency admissions, cancer referrals and ambulance response times. Nigel Edwards of the Nuffield Trust think-tank concludes that lower investment in health care in Britain is matched by “mediocre performance across the board”....

    It has often been said that the only subject health ministers ever discuss with the medical profession is money. As he prepares for the junior doctors’ walkout and for another tough public-spending round, Mr Hunt seems destined to find that to be truer than ever.
    http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21678827-government-under-fire-not-just-junior-doctors-health-economists
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    rottenborough said:

    Floater said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chuka talking sense

    @JeremyCliffe: Reality check from @ChukaUmunna on Today: "If you cannot keep the people safe, in their eyes that's a disqualification from office."

    "in their eyes" - should be in the politicians eyes too.

    How many times - the FIRST duty of any government.............
    Alternative history buffs out there: what would have happened if Chukka had stood for leader this time around? I suspect we would have had the same result, but who knows?
    Chuka was probably more charismatic than the others. Whether he had any policy ideas is less clear but that probably would not have mattered. If he had won, he'd have been crucified by the Tories.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    FluffyThoughts said:

    Without comment:

    Thanks largely to this parsimonious funding, the NHS is rated by most economists as highly efficient. Yet the OECD’s latest “Health at a Glance 2015” report finds that its record on patient care is not that impressive. On a range of indicators, from fatalities after heart attacks to asthma admission rates to cervical, breast and colorectal cancer survival rates, Britain does badly compared with other rich countries. The NHS is also missing many of its own targets for such things as accident and emergency admissions, cancer referrals and ambulance response times. Nigel Edwards of the Nuffield Trust think-tank concludes that lower investment in health care in Britain is matched by “mediocre performance across the board”....

    It has often been said that the only subject health ministers ever discuss with the medical profession is money. As he prepares for the junior doctors’ walkout and for another tough public-spending round, Mr Hunt seems destined to find that to be truer than ever.
    http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21678827-government-under-fire-not-just-junior-doctors-health-economists

    1.4m employees.

    700,000 never treat a patient.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    FluffyThoughts said:

    Without comment:

    Thanks largely to this parsimonious funding, the NHS is rated by most economists as highly efficient. Yet the OECD’s latest “Health at a Glance 2015” report finds that its record on patient care is not that impressive. On a range of indicators, from fatalities after heart attacks to asthma admission rates to cervical, breast and colorectal cancer survival rates, Britain does badly compared with other rich countries. The NHS is also missing many of its own targets for such things as accident and emergency admissions, cancer referrals and ambulance response times. Nigel Edwards of the Nuffield Trust think-tank concludes that lower investment in health care in Britain is matched by “mediocre performance across the board”....

    It has often been said that the only subject health ministers ever discuss with the medical profession is money. As he prepares for the junior doctors’ walkout and for another tough public-spending round, Mr Hunt seems destined to find that to be truer than ever.
    http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21678827-government-under-fire-not-just-junior-doctors-health-economists

    Yes, as has often been said, the dirty little secret of the NHS is that it is cheap.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Damian McBride on what Jeremy Corbyn is doing:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour

    His penultimate paragraph is entirely at odds with the rest of his article. It looks like wishful thinking to me.

    That, or a deliberately leaked plan, to try to encourage more people to join it. I agree with you that its chances of success look slim.

    The Next Labour Leader may well be of a party of 50 MPs.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Floater said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chuka talking sense

    @JeremyCliffe: Reality check from @ChukaUmunna on Today: "If you cannot keep the people safe, in their eyes that's a disqualification from office."

    "in their eyes" - should be in the politicians eyes too.

    How many times - the FIRST duty of any government.............
    I'd argue the ONLY

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    Plato_Says said:

    Wow! I missed this last night. Glorious invective from @afneil on his finest form ever. https://t.co/yExMyY9Y3C

    Yeah, but I watched it thinking it was a very pale imitation of the "gigantic fucking arseholes" rant from the Daily Show - even down to a list of great French achievements. Without the humour of the croquembouche.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxh9ZgP7kc
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dair said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Meanwhile, New Zealand has a flag vote:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34876354

    Seems odd to me.

    The black and blue one with the fern and southern cross seems like a great choice. I do hope it wins this round as I think it would beat the current flag.

    The Butchers Apron needs consigned to the dustbin of history.
    If your butchers apron has blood on it you should report him to the authorities - is this another standard that has slipped under Holyrood rule (apologies if you live in Bath).

    - my butcher wears a spotless apron in navy and white - just like the Scotland flag.

This discussion has been closed.