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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Confidence, resilience, determination: the necessary response to the Paris attacks
The first duty of the state is to protect its citizens. In that duty, France failed yesterday, as all states do from time to time because that duty can never be held to be absolute. It is impossible to protect against every threat every time, and any attempt to do so would impinge so heavily on other rights and values that it would in itself be an attack on the citizens.
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That is the response required.
I'm really not sure you're right here - I dearly wish you were but I do not think Corbyn has the mindset you describe.
I suppose the plus side of so many being economic migrants from the Balkans is that they're less likely to be fundamentalist lunatics.
FPT: Mr. Observer, I'm not saying 'leave them' I'm saying the crucial aspect is the religion, not the age or gender. That means the answer has to have a religious dimension, whether that's reasoning by sensible clerics or something else.
LPWNBPOTFR
'The supreme function of statesmanship is to provide against preventable evils. In seeking to do so, it encounters obstacles which are deeply rooted in human nature.
One is that by the very order of things such evils are not demonstrable until they have occurred: at each stage in their onset there is room for doubt and for dispute whether they be real or imaginary. By the same token, they attract little attention in comparison with current troubles, which are both indisputable and pressing: whence the besetting temptation of all politics to concern itself with the immediate present at the expense of the future.
Above all, people are disposed to mistake predicting troubles for causing troubles and even for desiring troubles: "If only," they love to think, "if only people wouldn't talk about it, it probably wouldn't happen."
At all events, the discussion of future grave but, with effort now, avoidable evils is the most unpopular and at the same time the most necessary occupation for the politician. Those who knowingly shirk it deserve, and not infrequently receive, the curses of those who come after.'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html
George Bush junior and his allies in trying to impose their world vision by force have created a Hell. What Paris is suffering now has been felt on a daily basis in the Arab world since Saddam was toppled. The depressing thing is not only how predictable it was but that it was widely predicted.
That tweet by Donald Trump is utterly revolting.
'There could be no grosser misconception of the realities than is entertained by those who vociferously demand legislation as they call it "against discrimination", whether they be leader-writers of the same kidney and sometimes on the same newspapers which year after year in the 1930s tried to blind this country to the rising peril which confronted it, or archbishops who live in palaces, faring delicately with the bedclothes pulled right up over their heads. They have got it exactly and diametrically wrong.
The discrimination and the deprivation, the sense of alarm and of resentment, lies not with the immigrant population but with those among whom they have come and are still coming.
This is why to enact legislation of the kind before parliament at this moment is to risk throwing a match on to gunpowder. The kindest thing that can be said about those who propose and support it is that they know not what they do.'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html
One fact worth mentioning though, given that you've brought up Powell, is that he was complaining against 50000 immigrants a year coming from British Commonwealth countries; places where the intrinsic culture was not all that different from Britain. As noted in the leader, Germany expects twenty times as many immigrants in just three months, most of whom will be far more culturally removed from Germany than Jamaicans were from Britain.
I am not going to get into 'Enoch was right' and all that. Apart from anything else, he clearly missed which immigrant group was less likely to integrate (Afro-Caribbean communities have in general integrated very well across all classes). That speech is a distraction. The problem we have is now.
There've been hundreds of arrests and lots of conviction in the last decade without any massacres on our soil. It could always happen again but we're doing something right.
FPT
I do think there is mileage in normalising relations with Iran. Our relationship has been dominated by 3 decades of mistrust following the manner in which the regime their came to power and their involvement in other ME countries - notably Lebanon. But they do appear to have been one of the most stable countries in the region and, as far as other religions is concerned, one of the most tolerant. There are active Christian and Jewish communities and the Government appears to take an active interest in protecting them from possible radicals.
Iran is clearly a long way from what we would consider a free and fair society but at the moment they are probably far and away the best ally we could develop in the region.
Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
There is always some confusion in reporting this and similar events.
Sky is saying 120 killed, while CNN is reporting at least 153 have been killed.
That's quite a disparity.
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This is the EU trying to juggle the horrifying figures and make them as small as possible for internal propaganda. The truth is that there are almost 200 wounded, 80 very seriously and many will still die.
"Sadly, I agree. As tim says on Twitter - today Seamus Milne's hardest task is probably to stop Jeremy Corbyn saying what Seamus Milne thinks"
If that's the same Tim it's good to know he's as sharp as ever. Where do you find his tweets?".
Enoch was motivated by the events in India in the 40s, and by the case of the Sikh bus conductor who refused to wear the uniform on religion grounds... It is a nonsense to say he was talking about Jamaicans or Afro Caribbeans in particular, an absolute nonsense
This is simply an on-going event where the news is not clear entirely yet.
"This is an attack on how we live. It cannot be allowed to succeed."
That's true but unfortunately they see it as a direct retaliation against our interferences in the way they live
Allying with them seems as counterproductive to me as allying with Saudi Arabia.
France has a rare opportunity to write and push a resolution through the United Nations security council.
We should see blue helmets on the ground in the Middle East to stop the refugee crisis and sanctions against those who fund war by proxy.
That really is a quite extraordinary post.
Personally, I can't think of anything constructive to say right now. I'm still in WTF mode after catching the story unfold early this morning.
https://twitter.com/maturefinancier/status/665456175291461632
No solution is perfect.
I'm betting that they will still try it on.
This is standard practice for how they report figures in tragedies, not a political conspiracy.
He is also quite big on guns
It interests me how anybody who dares to challenge the 'society' the liberal elite have constructed for us is immediately and severally accused of exploiting these events.
Ponder that: British citizens protesting and threatening violence against a British citizen at the behest of a foreign religious and political leader. European citizens behaving like bullies while simultaneously claiming to be victims and attacking anyone suggesting otherwise. In a nutshell that told you all you needed to know about the Islamist world view. And it set the template for countless incidents and atrocities since then.
And, Roger, it was Islamist interference in and aggression against our way of life - and long before Bush and Iraq and 9/11.
The formula that islam has used for centuries to spread itself is now being used in Europe.
Article from 10 years ago.
@Mr_Eugenides: During the night the Guardian tweeted then deleted this link to an old Seumas “it’s all our fault” column. I didn’t. https://t.co/d2WKKANCdo
This is also interesting from a Labour supporter about Corbyn's inability to condemn terrorists, written about Jihadi John and before Paris exploded
http://www.labourteachers.org.uk/we-alienated-more-voters-today-and-heres-how-oldandrewuk/
His broader point was that it was the number of immigrants that mattered, not where they came from... actually he said the problem would be the same if the same number of germans were immigrating, though Im not sure that holds true
"Commonwealth immigrants" is the phrase he used most often, and "coloured" which was not controversial in that era as it is now. If you think his speeches and opinions were directed at Afro Carribeans in particular, you have got it very wrong, as you will find if you look properly into his views
You should watch his interview w David Frost, a compelling insight
At what point do we stop playing host to the cancerous excesses of Islamism within and what real form must our remedies take. Also, what real actions must it result in within our country and within the EU whilst we are part of it?
If you ban the words used to oppose you, then you win by default.
Mockery is a great use of both freedom of speech and to deride those whose opinions are mad, such as ISIS or the likes of CAGE. The de facto blasphemy law we now have (which applies to Mohammed, but not Jesus) is bloody depressing, as was Newsnight's despicable stance.
"Mrs JackW is still progressing to Paris next weekend.
That is the response required. "
That's the spirit. Send the women in first....
Nothing in geopolitics and its extension into war is perfect and there are no untarnished players in the ME. The job of our leaders right now has to be to pick those allies who are most likely to be of help now and who are least likely to cause us problems in the future. It was the policy that Churchill followed in WW2 and we could do a lot worse than follow his lead.
The epitome of useful idiots.
A malicious useful idiot.
I will say this though. I heard him speak once, at Durham Union Society, when he was already past 80. I've never seen anyone before or since with such presence.
I have posted this before but never underestimate the hatred that the left bear for middle England.
If there's still a value bet to be had on next Tory leader - even better, next PM - it's her.
Still a bit available on Betfair at 14/1
Way back when, I was revolted at our oh-dear-musn't-offend-Muslims political reaction to Salman Rushdie's fatwa, and it's just been creeping onwards since. Increasing intolerance against our own society has barely been addressed - just lots of appeasement, handwringing and liberal-left wibble about celebrating diversity.
I didn't know that Sweden banned kosher and halal meat - excellent news, if it's good enough for Swedish liberals - let's see it here on animal welfare grounds, and start to reclaim at least a smidge of sense and our own cultural identity.
Caution notice, not yet official, my Arabic owes a large debt to Google Translate.
Corbyn's embarassing Media Chief, Seumus Milne on Isis.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq …
To be honest I'm not sure what we can do as a solution other than encourage moderate governments (Israel for one, Egypt perhaps I don't know), try and disentangle from needing oil and stop funding with any nation that sponsors terrorist ideology - which would include both Saudi and Iran.
Translation: this dogmatic belief is axiomatic to me, but I'm not confident I can evidence it or otherwise persuade you on the facts, so can you please agree not to challenge me on it.
As with others, appalled by the events in Paris overnight and the dreadful taking of innocent lives.
For all David H's fine words, I'm reminded that one of our "values" (well, it's one of mine at any rate) is compassion and for all the hard-nosed talk about how we should treat the exodus from the Syrian battlefields and elsewhere, it seems that fear rather than compassion is winning the day.
The alternatives seem either to condemn people to possibly years of futile existence in refugee camps where we routinely pick and choose those we want from the pool of the displaced and the dispossessed or we condemn those who physically come to Europe to either existence on the margins of society or worse facing a European winter with little or no help.
Ultimately, if we become a fearful, insular society, distrusting of certain groups and relying on endless surveillance and the rule of authority to create a facade of security and comfort for some, then, in some ways, terror will have won as we will have traded tolerance and compassion for security and comfort.
"Fortress Europe" was a term once used in a different context to describe a continent designed to be impervious to external threats (and Britain was that threat). Now, the Fortress is less a physical reality then a mentality - build the walls ever higher, make the surveillance ever more intrusive and perhaps we'll be safe.
As a Londoner, I've lived with the threat of terror most of my life - the response of the general public after 7/7 here and in Paris last night isn't just defiance, it's a re-affirmation of the people we are, not the people terror and fear would make us. Life goes on - I intend to live it in my way, on my terms with my compassion and tolerance intact.
Is it possible that this is partly to divert attention from the fact that ISIS is starting to lose in Iraq and Syria?