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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This week’s PB/Polling Matters Podcast explores what it’s l

SystemSystem Posts: 11,730
edited November 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This week’s PB/Polling Matters Podcast explores what it’s like being a losing candidate

On this week’s edition of the PB / Polling Matters podcast we explore what it’s like running for parliament. Keiran speaks to two unsuccessful candidates from 2015 and asks about their experiences, the pressures they faced and why they thought Labour lost.

Read the full story here


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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,261
    edited November 2015
    Thirst?

    On topic: I quite admire people who stand for parliament. There's no way I'd have the guts to put myself into the firing line, even if I thought I was in any capable of doing the job.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    Glorious second!
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Podium finish?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Denied a medal by the Russian Federation...
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Miss Congeniality III?
    Scott_P said:

    Denied a medal by the Russian Federation...

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    FPT: Mr. Llama, I'll get a little work on that done now, but my time's quite limited (both this evening and over the weekend), as well as monitor concerns.

    Anyway, glad it came back to life, even if it's a one-off, as I suspect my silence during an F1 weekend might cause a sigh of relief as wallets are not lightened by errant tips raised eyebrow here or there.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pakistan need 16 sixes from 27 balls to win.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Russell Whiting was a leading figure in my campaign in 2010.
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    Russell Whiting was a leading figure in my campaign in 2010.

    He mentions that in the podcast. Keiran obviously puts a lot of effort putting these podcasts together. I'm finding this one very interesting.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    FPT I don't think Clarkson calling an obviously useless producer an effin useless Irishman will go anywhere near ruining his show or reputation...most Irishmen call each other that on a daily basis..The Producer is Irish and patently useless..
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    LD over the top desperation?
    https://youtu.be/CuQl1bKlzVM
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    Evening all.

    The 2015 Labour Party candidate for Suffolk Coastal looks about 14 - or am just getting old?
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    FPT I don't think Clarkson calling an obviously useless producer an effin useless Irishman will go anywhere near ruining his show or reputation...most Irishmen call each other that on a daily basis..The Producer is Irish and patently useless..

    I don't think Clarkson asked about his nationality before he punched him, he would have punched him regardless of being nationality x.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2015
    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.
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    Off now. Will post the pre-qualifying piece, if I can, tomorrow afternoon. Because it's in Brazil, everything's a bit later than usual (although, thankfully, earlier than the US/Mexico).
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Speedy.. sound like the lad deserved it..my reaction would have been very similar to Clarksons..
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy.. sound like the lad deserved it..my reaction would have been very similar to Clarksons..

    I don't know the circumstances better than any viewer or reader, given Clarskon's temperament he wouldn't have discriminated punching people by nationality.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited November 2015
    Speedy.. simple rule for all producers..at all levels.. feed the team..and I don't mean with Pizzas..or suffer the consequences
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    That 42% for Trump from Ipsos is a new record high for him with Ipsos and all the other pollsters even going back to August, it's also a first that Trump goes up after a debate instead of down:

    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20150807-20151113/type/day
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Speedy said:

    That 42% for Trump from Ipsos is a new record high for him with Ipsos and all the other pollsters even going back to August, it's also a first that Trump goes up after a debate instead of down:

    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20150807-20151113/type/day

    It is looking increasingly likely that he will get the nomination. He seems almost unstoppable.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    Thanks Speedy - Cruz looks like a lay at 8.6 currently, Bush/Rubio for all their woes are the establishment candidates; and Trump/Carson are ahead in the polls !
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2015

    Speedy.. simple rule for all producers..at all levels.. feed the team..and I don't mean with Pizzas..or suffer the consequences

    Being a producer doesn't sound like a good idea when you have to deal with stars.
    As I mentioned last week Liz Taylor demanded fresh bananas from africa everyday on the set of Cleopatra.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Speedy.. tough job.. so go get the effin bananas..
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Speedy said:

    That 42% for Trump from Ipsos is a new record high for him with Ipsos and all the other pollsters even going back to August, it's also a first that Trump goes up after a debate instead of down:

    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20150807-20151113/type/day

    9.6% is dismal for Rubio.
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    James Frith came very close.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    James Frith came very close.

    To be honest he should have won fairly comfortably, especially against a rather ideological MP in David Nuttall.
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    Ah, Nick Palmer (who has his own interesting story) gets a shout-out from Russell Whiting (who sounds very white and middle-class to me) due to joint campaigning in Broxtowe!
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    That 42% for Trump from Ipsos is a new record high for him with Ipsos and all the other pollsters even going back to August, it's also a first that Trump goes up after a debate instead of down:

    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20150807-20151113/type/day

    9.6% is dismal for Rubio.
    I know, he touched 50% odds on betfair earlier in the day for a candidate that gets almost 4.5 times less in the polls than the frontrunner.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,686
    FPT

    The unregrettable demise of Jihadi John has to be seen in the context of fighting an asymmetric war against unconventional opponents, who rely heavily on disseminating videos of their gruesome activities as a deliberate part of their strategy. Up to now they've been able to do that, and be seen to do that, with a large measure of impunity.

    It's important that we show that there is no impunity, therefore the tactical value of the drone strike is far in excess of just taking out one particularly unpleasant individual.

    Whilst nobody will be weeping that another member of ISIS has shuffled off this mortal coil, I think it's the fact the Syrian army are at the gates of Palmyra that is showing ISIS there's no impunity. Not the death of one 'Martyr' in an organisation numbering 80,000.

    This speaks nothing of any worthwhile military objective and everything of the sort of foreign policy panto (let's film our reactions to Osama getting popped) that the Americans go in for. It's Military entertainment for for the simple minded.
    "Jihadi John" registers large multiples more with the general population than "Palmyra" or "Raqqa". JJ's demise, whilst not being immediately militarily significant, is very significant in the context of the whole conflict. That's the nature of propaganda and why protagonists employ it. To describe it as "panto" merely demonstrates your tendency towards the simple mindedness that you deride.
    On the contrary, your post appears to agree with me. Surely the whole point of attacking ISIS is to eliminate them as a force, so they stop killing people, not score victories in the field of what you call propaganda (l agree) and I call pantomime.
    Tell us how Russia's actions are in any way eliminating ISIS as a force, given their multinational nature?
    I never mentioned Russia - I think you might be a tad obsessed?

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,261

    FPT

    The unregrettable demise of Jihadi John has to be seen in the context of fighting an asymmetric war against unconventional opponents, who rely heavily on disseminating videos of their gruesome activities as a deliberate part of their strategy. Up to now they've been able to do that, and be seen to do that, with a large measure of impunity.

    It's important that we show that there is no impunity, therefore the tactical value of the drone strike is far in excess of just taking out one particularly unpleasant individual.

    Whilst nobody will be weeping that another member of ISIS has shuffled off this mortal coil, I think it's the fact the Syrian army are at the gates of Palmyra that is showing ISIS there's no impunity. Not the death of one 'Martyr' in an organisation numbering 80,000.

    This speaks nothing of any worthwhile military objective and everything of the sort of foreign policy panto (let's film our reactions to Osama getting popped) that the Americans go in for. It's Military entertainment for for the simple minded.
    "Jihadi John" registers large multiples more with the general population than "Palmyra" or "Raqqa". JJ's demise, whilst not being immediately militarily significant, is very significant in the context of the whole conflict. That's the nature of propaganda and why protagonists employ it. To describe it as "panto" merely demonstrates your tendency towards the simple mindedness that you deride.
    On the contrary, your post appears to agree with me. Surely the whole point of attacking ISIS is to eliminate them as a force, so they stop killing people, not score victories in the field of what you call propaganda (l agree) and I call pantomime.
    Tell us how Russia's actions are in any way eliminating ISIS as a force, given their multinational nature?
    I never mentioned Russia - I think you might be a tad obsessed?

    Are you saying you were referring to the UK and US eliminating ISIS as a force, and that Russia's actions are a pantomime?
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    Oh dear. Whiting thinks Jeremy Corbyn is 'positive for the Labour Party'.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,686
    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Perhaps the National Grid can pay a few more factories to stop making things.

    But never mind about energy security, that Dave Cameron does a lovely speech, and he always strikes the right note at the cenotaph.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    AndyJS said:

    James Frith came very close.

    To be honest he should have won fairly comfortably, especially against a rather ideological MP in David Nuttall.
    Is "ideological" now the negative way of spinning "has opinions"?
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    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    To be honest, on those sorts of figures, mad as it is it might be worth backing Trump on the markets.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,686

    FPT

    The unregrettable demise of Jihadi John has to be seen in the context of fighting an asymmetric war against unconventional opponents, who rely heavily on disseminating videos of their gruesome activities as a deliberate part of their strategy. Up to now they've been able to do that, and be seen to do that, with a large measure of impunity.

    It's important that we show that there is no impunity, therefore the tactical value of the drone strike is far in excess of just taking out one particularly unpleasant individual.

    Whilst nobody will be weeping that another member of ISIS has shuffled off this mortal coil, I think it's the fact the Syrian army are at the gates of Palmyra that is showing ISIS there's no impunity. Not the death of one 'Martyr' in an organisation numbering 80,000.

    This speaks nothing of any worthwhile military objective and everything of the sort of foreign policy panto (let's film our reactions to Osama getting popped) that the Americans go in for. It's Military entertainment for for the simple minded.
    "Jihadi John" registers large multiples more with the general population than "Palmyra" or "Raqqa". JJ's demise, whilst not being immediately militarily significant, is very significant in the context of the whole conflict. That's the nature of propaganda and why protagonists employ it. To describe it as "panto" merely demonstrates your tendency towards the simple mindedness that you deride.
    On the contrary, your post appears to agree with me. Surely the whole point of attacking ISIS is to eliminate them as a force, so they stop killing people, not score victories in the field of what you call propaganda (l agree) and I call pantomime.
    Tell us how Russia's actions are in any way eliminating ISIS as a force, given their multinational nature?
    I never mentioned Russia - I think you might be a tad obsessed?

    Are you saying you were referring to the UK and US eliminating ISIS as a force, and that Russia's actions are a pantomime?
    Um, no. I'm saying that US actions are a pantomime. What the UK's are I can only imagine - back end of the pantomime horse? I never mentioned Russia.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,290

    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    To be honest, on those sorts of figures, mad as it is it might be worth backing Trump on the markets.
    As I suspected Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bombed with the GOP establishment but went down a storm with the GOP base
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    lg 83 So Russsia doesnt count in all of this at all....hmm..what a lot of people think too..
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Do they find it easier to keep warm?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,686
    GeoffM said:

    AndyJS said:

    James Frith came very close.

    To be honest he should have won fairly comfortably, especially against a rather ideological MP in David Nuttall.
    Is "ideological" now the negative way of spinning "has opinions"?
    Yes. Not particularly new though. It has a convenient whiff of Mein Kampf and Das Kapital. Useful for quashing anyone who departs from the prevailing soft left internationalist consensus.
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    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Do they find it easier to keep warm?
    Harder. They have a higher surface area to mass ratio and so lose heat more quickly...

    ...sorry I thought you were being serious for a moment :-)
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    To be honest, on those sorts of figures, mad as it is it might be worth backing Trump on the markets.
    As I suspected Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bombed with the GOP establishment but went down a storm with the GOP base
    I think you're right. But unfortunately an extended conversation on a deportation force to deport 10 + million illegals, splitting up families and invoking memories of Operation Wetback is going to cost Republicans the hispanic vote and the election if they keep it up.

    Republicans need to reach out to hispanics, and this won't do it.
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    AndyJS said:

    James Frith came very close.

    To be honest he should have won fairly comfortably, especially against a rather ideological MP in David Nuttall.
    He seems to be the sort of candidate Labour could do with a lot more of.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,261

    Um, no. I'm saying that US actions are a pantomime. What the UK's are I can only imagine - back end of the pantomime horse? I never mentioned Russia.

    Not mentioning does not mean you were not implying. And I disagree with your views of US actions as a pantomime, as today's news show. Not only have they probably dispatched Jihad John, but they've helped the Kurds retake Sinjar.

    Not exactly a pantomime, is it?

    I will repeat what I've said before: Russia has no interest in 'defeating' ISIS. They are looking after their own interests, which is supporting a puppet Assad. That is a pantomime, and one people such as yourself are all too keen to watch and applaud.

    I need some mind bleach. I just thought of Putin dressed up as Widow Twankey ...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,290
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    To be honest, on those sorts of figures, mad as it is it might be worth backing Trump on the markets.
    As I suspected Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bombed with the GOP establishment but went down a storm with the GOP base
    I think you're right. But unfortunately an extended conversation on a deportation force to deport 10 + million illegals, splitting up families and invoking memories of Operation Wetback is going to cost Republicans the hispanic vote and the election if they keep it up.

    Republicans need to reach out to hispanics, and this won't do it.
    Indeed and if Trump is her opponent Hillary will almost certainly pick a young Hispanic like Julian Castro as her VP nominee
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Do they find it easier to keep warm?
    Harder. They have a higher surface area to mass ratio and so lose heat more quickly...

    ...sorry I thought you were being serious for a moment :-)
    I am of course now wiser.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Thirst?

    On topic: I quite admire people who stand for parliament. There's no way I'd have the guts to put myself into the firing line, even if I thought I was in any capable of doing the job.

    Of course you are capable of doing the job, Mr Jessop. You are capable of constructing a coherent argument, you can see beyond the immediate and you have principles by which you stand. On second thoughts, maybe you are over qualified.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2015
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    To be honest, on those sorts of figures, mad as it is it might be worth backing Trump on the markets.
    As I suspected Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bombed with the GOP establishment but went down a storm with the GOP base
    I think you're right. But unfortunately an extended conversation on a deportation force to deport 10 + million illegals, splitting up families and invoking memories of Operation Wetback is going to cost Republicans the hispanic vote and the election if they keep it up.

    Republicans need to reach out to hispanics, and this won't do it.
    I think that they can replace that with protectionism that has a big appeal in the rust belt, in Florida most hispanics are actually cubans not mexicans, so they react differently about immigration from mexico.

    Hispanics of mexican origin are a crucial block in most south western states, however with the exception of Texas and Arizona most of them vote democrat by large margins, only Nevada and perhaps Colorado are hispanic-mexican swing states but they only have 6 & 9 electoral votes respectively, while the industrial states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan each have double that number.
    Given that in the state polls Hillary is struggling in the industrial states against all republicans I would ditch the hispanic outreach strategy for a blue collar one, and it's not impossible because they all have elected republican governors and senators these past few years in the rust belt.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2016

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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Do they find it easier to keep warm?
    Harder. They have a higher surface area to mass ratio and so lose heat more quickly...

    ...sorry I thought you were being serious for a moment :-)
    I am of course now wiser.
    No, just better informed.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,686

    Um, no. I'm saying that US actions are a pantomime. What the UK's are I can only imagine - back end of the pantomime horse? I never mentioned Russia.

    Not mentioning does not mean you were not implying. And I disagree with your views of US actions as a pantomime, as today's news show. Not only have they probably dispatched Jihad John, but they've helped the Kurds retake Sinjar.

    Not exactly a pantomime, is it?

    I will repeat what I've said before: Russia has no interest in 'defeating' ISIS. They are looking after their own interests, which is supporting a puppet Assad. That is a pantomime, and one people such as yourself are all too keen to watch and applaud.

    I need some mind bleach. I just thought of Putin dressed up as Widow Twankey ...
    Delighted that they've probably killed Jihadi John - only another 79,999 to go.

    7 airstrikes a day. 7. 800 a day to get rid of Saddam - that's what the US does when it's actually interested in defeating someone. 7 to 'degrade' ISIS (whilst ISIS enjoy vast territorial expansion). And this is the farce that we've been asked to join.

    You contradict yourself even within your own posts. To support Assad (which they have fully acknowledged, and is the most sensible way of resolving the situation) means ISIS must be defeated. The only side that ISIS' expansion benefits is the Saudi, Qatari, Turkey, US (sadly UK) axis, which is perhaps why 'coalition' airstrikes have been tickling their tummy for the past 13 months.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
    Thank goodness that the hugely expensive and dangerous nuclear power is nowhere near 25%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Electricity_Production_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg
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    The truly scary prospect is that if the FBI investigations do actually come to anything (and I accept that is a very big 'if') then the US could be facing a choice between Trump and Sanders and there is a real danger Trump could actually win.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Speedy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
    Thank goodness that the hugely expensive and dangerous nuclear power is nowhere near 25%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Electricity_Production_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg
    Don't know where those figures meet reality. I just watch the National Grid's site which shows where the power is coming from hour by hour. Nuclear normally has a share of between 20 and 25%

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,290

    The truly scary prospect is that if the FBI investigations do actually come to anything (and I accept that is a very big 'if') then the US could be facing a choice between Trump and Sanders and there is a real danger Trump could actually win.

    There is an equally strong danger Sanders could win as he has led Trump in several polls
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,261

    Um, no. I'm saying that US actions are a pantomime. What the UK's are I can only imagine - back end of the pantomime horse? I never mentioned Russia.

    Not mentioning does not mean you were not implying. And I disagree with your views of US actions as a pantomime, as today's news show. Not only have they probably dispatched Jihad John, but they've helped the Kurds retake Sinjar.

    Not exactly a pantomime, is it?

    I will repeat what I've said before: Russia has no interest in 'defeating' ISIS. They are looking after their own interests, which is supporting a puppet Assad. That is a pantomime, and one people such as yourself are all too keen to watch and applaud.

    I need some mind bleach. I just thought of Putin dressed up as Widow Twankey ...
    Delighted that they've probably killed Jihadi John - only another 79,999 to go.

    7 airstrikes a day. 7. 800 a day to get rid of Saddam - that's what the US does when it's actually interested in defeating someone. 7 to 'degrade' ISIS (whilst ISIS enjoy vast territorial expansion). And this is the farce that we've been asked to join.

    You contradict yourself even within your own posts. To support Assad (which they have fully acknowledged, and is the most sensible way of resolving the situation) means ISIS must be defeated. The only side that ISIS' expansion benefits is the Saudi, Qatari, Turkey, US (sadly UK) axis, which is perhaps why 'coalition' airstrikes have been tickling their tummy for the past 13 months.
    Are you delighted that the Kurds have retaken Sinjar?

    And I've not contradicted myself at all.

    I must once again ask how you think ISIS is going to be 'defeated', and in fact what 'defeat' for that organisation would be. As I pointed out earlier, 'defeating' their ideology militarily is going to be exceptionally difficult given their multinational nature and ideology. Try having some original thoughts instead of regurgitating whatever rubbish you've read on some Putinist blog or other.

    ISIS's expansion has served Russia very well, hasn't it? Its allowed them to create a puppet out of Assad and get a further foothold in the ME. It's been of zero benefit to either the US or UK.

    " ... which is perhaps why 'coalition' airstrikes have been tickling their tummy for the past 13 months."

    Yeah, right. Your knowledge of the situation and region really is most laughable and one-dimensional.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2015

    The truly scary prospect is that if the FBI investigations do actually come to anything (and I accept that is a very big 'if') then the US could be facing a choice between Trump and Sanders and there is a real danger Trump could actually win.

    I don't know if Hillary would win, she may have a lead on the nationwide polls however the election is determined in the electoral college, she may rank a huge lead in California and N.York but looking at the state polls she is losing or too close to call in Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, and Michigan.
    So best case for her is a repeat of 2012, worst case the biggest republican victory since 1988.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,087
    If Carson drops out and loses votes to similarly far-right Cruz
    and if Rubio can't win anywhere early so loses his sheen
    Surely Trump v Cruz?

    I am on Rubio I think, f w i w.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,290
    edited November 2015
    Speedy said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    To be honest, on those sorts of figures, mad as it is it might be worth backing Trump on the markets.
    As I suspected Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bombed with the GOP establishment but went down a storm with the GOP base
    I think you're right. But unfortunately an extended conversation on a deportation force to deport 10 + million illegals, splitting up families and invoking memories of Operation Wetback is going to cost Republicans the hispanic vote and the election if they keep it up.

    Republicans need to reach out to hispanics, and this won't do it.
    I think that they can replace that with protectionism that has a big appeal in the rust belt, in Florida most hispanics are actually cubans not mexicans, so they react differently about immigration from mexico.

    Hispanics of mexican origin are a crucial block in most south western states, however with the exception of Texas and Arizona most of them vote democrat by large margins, only Nevada and perhaps Colorado are hispanic-mexican swing states but they only have 6 & 9 electoral votes respectively, while the industrial states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan each have double that number.
    Given that in the state polls Hillary is struggling in the industrial states against all republicans I would ditch the hispanic outreach strategy for a blue collar one, and it's not impossible because they all have elected republican governors and senators these past few years in the rust belt.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2016

    Hillary had her best results in the 2008 primaries in the rusybelt and if she adds Nevada and Colorado she is almost unstoppable. Pennsylvania and Michigan even voted for Kerry they are not going to vote for Trump
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited November 2015

    The truly scary prospect is that if the FBI investigations do actually come to anything (and I accept that is a very big 'if') then the US could be facing a choice between Trump and Sanders and there is a real danger Trump could actually win.

    After yesterday's news of the expansion of the investigation it's still an 'if', possibly a big one, but not a very big one. The False Statements law is how they nailed Martha Stewart and David Petraeus. It's a low bar to clear - you don't need to be under oath. Plus we don't know whose statements they are investigating - it could be several people. The FBI doesn't radically expand investigations if they don't have any evidence.

    I've said from the beginning that I don't think Trump will be the nominee, and that he will crash and burn. So far that has not happened, and after the first few primaries I might need to reconsider that view. At present I think it's Rubio's to lose. The next three months or so will show if my utterly unscientific view is correct.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2015

    Speedy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
    Thank goodness that the hugely expensive and dangerous nuclear power is nowhere near 25%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Electricity_Production_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg
    Don't know where those figures meet reality. I just watch the National Grid's site which shows where the power is coming from hour by hour. Nuclear normally has a share of between 20 and 25%

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    I may support nuclear weapons but I'm not an idiot to support nuclear power, if even the japanese failed to master it then it's way too dangerous.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,290
    Speedy said:

    The truly scary prospect is that if the FBI investigations do actually come to anything (and I accept that is a very big 'if') then the US could be facing a choice between Trump and Sanders and there is a real danger Trump could actually win.

    I don't know if Hillary would win, she may have a lead on the nationwide polls however the election is determined in the electoral college, she may rank a huge lead in California and N.York but looking at the state polls she is losing or too close to call in Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, and Michigan.
    So best case for her is a repeat of 2012, worst case the biggest republican victory since 1988.
    Wrong she leads Trump in all those state polls with the possible exception of Florida and the Democrats now tend to poll slightly better in state polls than nationally
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: No more pesky 'unresignations'? Nigel Farage wants to abolish the Ukip body which can axe him as leader https://t.co/e2WyiuW1EN
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,149

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Do they find it easier to keep warm?
    Harder. They have a higher surface area to mass ratio and so lose heat more quickly...

    ...sorry I thought you were being serious for a moment :-)
    I am of course now wiser.
    No, just better informed.
    Like!!!!
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    To be honest, on those sorts of figures, mad as it is it might be worth backing Trump on the markets.
    As I suspected Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bombed with the GOP establishment but went down a storm with the GOP base
    I think you're right. But unfortunately an extended conversation on a deportation force to deport 10 + million illegals, splitting up families and invoking memories of Operation Wetback is going to cost Republicans the hispanic vote and the election if they keep it up.

    Republicans need to reach out to hispanics, and this won't do it.
    I think that they can replace that with protectionism that has a big appeal in the rust belt, in Florida most hispanics are actually cubans not mexicans, so they react differently about immigration from mexico.

    Hispanics of mexican origin are a crucial block in most south western states, however with the exception of Texas and Arizona most of them vote democrat by large margins, only Nevada and perhaps Colorado are hispanic-mexican swing states but they only have 6 & 9 electoral votes respectively, while the industrial states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan each have double that number.
    Given that in the state polls Hillary is struggling in the industrial states against all republicans I would ditch the hispanic outreach strategy for a blue collar one, and it's not impossible because they all have elected republican governors and senators these past few years in the rust belt.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2016

    Hillary had her best results in the 2008 primaries in the rusybelt and if she adds Nevada and Colorado she is almost unstoppable. Pennsylvania and Michigan even voted for Kerry they are not going to vote for Trump
    You are thinking about primary results in the democratic party from 7 years ago vs a GE election 1 year from now.
    Kerry is not running for president and it's not 2004 likewise Obama is not Kerry and 2008 was not 2004 but he still won Virginia, Indiana, Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, Ohio, Florida and N.Carolina which Kerry did not.

    If you look at presidential election maps you would see that from president to president the geographical support changes drastically.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DamCou: 1/2 A Dimbleby lifts a finger to his earpiece: "And we're receiving first images of the Queen's First Borsetshire Mounted Regiment as they…

    @DamCou: 2/2 "…return from their successful negotiation of Jihadi John's extradition without loss. You can see John himself riding the lead unicorn…"
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,149
    My inherent mischieviousness likes the idea of Trump (or better still Carson) vs. Sanders.

    In vino veritas or something.

    However, when I've sobered up .....
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
    Thank goodness that the hugely expensive and dangerous nuclear power is nowhere near 25%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Electricity_Production_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg
    Not sure about 'nowhere near'. According to that chart in 2011 (the last year the chart covers) Nuclear accounted for around 18%, down from nearly 30% in 1998.

    Given the number of coal fired power stations that have been closed it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that nuclear share is now back up around 25%.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
    Thank goodness that the hugely expensive and dangerous nuclear power is nowhere near 25%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Electricity_Production_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg
    Not sure about 'nowhere near'. According to that chart in 2011 (the last year the chart covers) Nuclear accounted for around 18%, down from nearly 30% in 1998.

    Given the number of coal fired power stations that have been closed it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that nuclear share is now back up around 25%.
    It's 18.01% right now.
    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
  • Options
    Speedy said:



    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    I may support nuclear weapons but I'm not an idiot to support nuclear power, if even the japanese failed to master it then it's way too dangerous.

    Great if the wind keeps blowing. What do you do when it doesn't. We regularly have days where wind power produces around 1% of our power needs. The idea it is a reliable alternative is just nuts.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,839
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    The truly scary prospect is that if the FBI investigations do actually come to anything (and I accept that is a very big 'if') then the US could be facing a choice between Trump and Sanders and there is a real danger Trump could actually win.

    I don't know if Hillary would win, she may have a lead on the nationwide polls however the election is determined in the electoral college, she may rank a huge lead in California and N.York but looking at the state polls she is losing or too close to call in Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, and Michigan.
    So best case for her is a repeat of 2012, worst case the biggest republican victory since 1988.
    Wrong she leads Trump in all those state polls with the possible exception of Florida and the Democrats now tend to poll slightly better in state polls than nationally
    Being a hair's breadth ahead of a raving loon doesn't count as a qualification.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,686



    Are you delighted that the Kurds have retaken Sinjar?

    And I've not contradicted myself at all.

    I must once again ask how you think ISIS is going to be 'defeated', and in fact what 'defeat' for that organisation would be. As I pointed out earlier, 'defeating' their ideology militarily is going to be exceptionally difficult given their multinational nature and ideology. Try having some original thoughts instead of regurgitating whatever rubbish you've read on some Putinist blog or other.

    ISIS's expansion has served Russia very well, hasn't it? Its allowed them to create a puppet out of Assad and get a further foothold in the ME. It's been of zero benefit to either the US or UK.

    " ... which is perhaps why 'coalition' airstrikes have been tickling their tummy for the past 13 months."

    Yeah, right. Your knowledge of the situation and region really is most laughable and one-dimensional.

    Of course - I'm delighted in any gains made by the enemies of ISIS. The Iraqi army has also been making very successful advances against ISIS forces.

    None of this is of benefit to the UK - we have no dog in this fight. We are there because that's what the US wants. The American benefit is clear - they want to get rid of Assad. ISIS was not only the most effective force against the Assad Government, it also gave a pretext to impose a de facto no fly zone over Syria, to prevent Assad from using his air force to gain the upper hand.

    'Yeah right' - great argument there. What do you call 7 air strikes a day against the biggest threat to humanity the 21st century has yet seen?
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,087
    I read the claim on previous thread that David Cameron, as incumbent Prime Minister, gained votes and seats, which is very rare. However, it's not a correct claim. The correct claim is that he gained votes and seats as party leader.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,290
    edited November 2015
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Well first post GOP debate poll, from Reuters/Ipsos (with changes since the debate):
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/LIKELY_PRIMARY15:1,PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151107-20151113/type/day

    Trump 42 (+10)
    Carson 23 (-2)
    Rubio 9.6 (+0.2)
    Cruz 7.4 (- 3.5)
    Bush 4.2 (+0.5)

    To be honest, on those sorts of figures, mad as it is it might be worth backing Trump on the markets.
    As I suspected Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bombed with the GOP establishment but went down a storm with the GOP base
    I think you're right. But unfortunately an extended conversation on a deportation force to deport 10 + million illegals, splitting up families and invoking memories of Operation Wetback is going to cost Republicans the hispanic vote and the election if they keep it up.

    Republicans need to reach out to hispanics, and this won't do it.
    I think that they can replace that with protectionism that has a big appeal in the rust belt, in Florida most hispanics are actually cubans not mexicans, so they react differently about immigration from mexico.


    Hillary had her
    You are thinking about primary results in the democratic party from 7 years ago vs a GE election 1 year from now.
    Kerry is not running for president and it's not 2004 likewise Obama is not Kerry and 2008 was not 2004 but he still won Virginia, Indiana, Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, Ohio, Florida and N.Carolina which Kerry did not.

    If you look at presidential election maps you would see that from president to president the geographical support changes drastically.
    The Clinton brand wins states like Ohio and both Kerry and Obama won Michigan and Pennsylvania. If Trump loses the GOP the Hispanic vote too she could add states like Nevada and Colorado Obama won. Indiana and N Carolina went for Romney and Florida voted more strongly for Romney than the national average so she could win without them. Indeed Bill lost Florida in 1992 but won nationally nonetheless.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
    Thank goodness that the hugely expensive and dangerous nuclear power is nowhere near 25%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Electricity_Production_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg
    Not sure about 'nowhere near'. According to that chart in 2011 (the last year the chart covers) Nuclear accounted for around 18%, down from nearly 30% in 1998.

    Given the number of coal fired power stations that have been closed it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that nuclear share is now back up around 25%.
    It's 18.01% right now.
    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
    Look at the French page (icon in top left), 88.89% nuclear!
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,839

    Speedy said:



    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    I may support nuclear weapons but I'm not an idiot to support nuclear power, if even the japanese failed to master it then it's way too dangerous.

    Great if the wind keeps blowing. What do you do when it doesn't. We regularly have days where wind power produces around 1% of our power needs. The idea it is a reliable alternative is just nuts.
    The wind really will keep blowing.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    EPG said:

    I read the claim on previous thread that David Cameron, as incumbent Prime Minister, gained votes and seats, which is very rare. However, it's not a correct claim. The correct claim is that he gained votes and seats as party leader.

    Call me dumb, but where is the distinction? Wasn't he PM at the time of the election?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:



    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    I may support nuclear weapons but I'm not an idiot to support nuclear power, if even the japanese failed to master it then it's way too dangerous.

    Great if the wind keeps blowing. What do you do when it doesn't. We regularly have days where wind power produces around 1% of our power needs. The idea it is a reliable alternative is just nuts.
    Tidal power is a good alternative, tides are more reliable and can produce power the same way as hydroelectric stations, as for the days of excess power and low power from wind you can alleviate that with pumped storage schemes like in Dinorwig:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

    There are many cheaper and safer alternatives that produce the same results but are less sexy than nuclear power, with a nuclear reactor a loose bolt could make Britain uninhabitable for decades.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118



    Are you delighted that the Kurds have retaken Sinjar?

    And I've not contradicted myself at all.

    I must once again ask how you think ISIS is going to be 'defeated', and in fact what 'defeat' for that organisation would be. As I pointed out earlier, 'defeating' their ideology militarily is going to be exceptionally difficult given their multinational nature and ideology. Try having some original thoughts instead of regurgitating whatever rubbish you've read on some Putinist blog or other.

    ISIS's expansion has served Russia very well, hasn't it? Its allowed them to create a puppet out of Assad and get a further foothold in the ME. It's been of zero benefit to either the US or UK.

    " ... which is perhaps why 'coalition' airstrikes have been tickling their tummy for the past 13 months."

    Yeah, right. Your knowledge of the situation and region really is most laughable and one-dimensional.

    Of course - I'm delighted in any gains made by the enemies of ISIS. The Iraqi army has also been making very successful advances against ISIS forces.

    None of this is of benefit to the UK - we have no dog in this fight. We are there because that's what the US wants. The American benefit is clear - they want to get rid of Assad. ISIS was not only the most effective force against the Assad Government, it also gave a pretext to impose a de facto no fly zone over Syria, to prevent Assad from using his air force to gain the upper hand.

    'Yeah right' - great argument there. What do you call 7 air strikes a day against the biggest threat to humanity the 21st century has yet seen?
    7 air strikes a day against Jeremy Corbyn?
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
    Thank goodness that the hugely expensive and dangerous nuclear power is nowhere near 25%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Electricity_Production_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg
    Not sure about 'nowhere near'. According to that chart in 2011 (the last year the chart covers) Nuclear accounted for around 18%, down from nearly 30% in 1998.

    Given the number of coal fired power stations that have been closed it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that nuclear share is now back up around 25%.
    It's 18.01% right now.
    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
    Yep. In case you missed it it is bloody windy at the moment. It happens this time of year.

    Try looking at some proper research into just how poorly we are served by wind turbines.

    http://www.cityam.com/1414407936/wind-farms-unreliable-expensive-and-deeply-inefficient-study-claims

    "UK wind farms top 80 per cent of their potential output for less than a week every year. It gets worse as, according to the study, wind turbines are only able to produce 90 per cent or more of their potential power output for a meagre 17 hours a year."
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    Speedy said:

    with a nuclear reactor a loose bolt could make Britain uninhabitable for decades.

    What scaremongering!
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,686
    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:



    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    I may support nuclear weapons but I'm not an idiot to support nuclear power, if even the japanese failed to master it then it's way too dangerous.

    Great if the wind keeps blowing. What do you do when it doesn't. We regularly have days where wind power produces around 1% of our power needs. The idea it is a reliable alternative is just nuts.
    The wind really will keep blowing.
    Often yes. Constantly no. There is actually a mathematical equation for percentage of energy derived from wind that you cannot go beyond to avoid too much power at some points and power outages at others - without a method of storing that power.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Speedy said:


    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    Forgive me. I wasn't aware of the tendency of nuclear reactors to explode and I have totally missed the news that chunks of the UK are uninhabitable as a result.

    However, if you look at my original post on this matter up-thread you will see that I was suggesting that coal and nuclear power stations be shut down. We do have to think of the polar bears and the planet as a whole. I am delighted that the UK has a national target, backed by legislation, to reduce its carbon emissions etc. to less than 80% of the 1990 level.

    Obviously that will mean sacrifices as the demand for electricity cannot be allowed to rise as it has over the last half-century or so. As someone, I forget who but it was one of the great and good, said we must accept that in future electricity will not be available on demand. So some form of rationing is inevitable. How to ration? Well, the great and the good cannot be expected to go without so price is the obvious mechanism.

    Ken Clark tried this in the 1990s when he introduced VAT on domestic fuel. Labour kicked up a fearful stink, cut the VAT as far as the EU would let them and then a few years later introduced their own taxes on on energy but called them something else. So as both main parties are happy to agree that ordinary people should pay more for electricity the politics are settled; ordinary people are to have the electricity rationed.

    Which is fine because, as I said those polar bears will not save themselves, and the UK by reducing its less than 2% share of nasty emissions will be a world leader. That won't make a sod's worth of difference to global warming but it will allow our politicians to strut their stuff on the world stage which is what matters. The unemployed industrial workers will be heartened to know that their sacrifice has been worth while.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,290



    Are you delighted that the Kurds have retaken Sinjar?

    And I've not contradicted myself at all.

    I must once again ask how you think ISIS is going to be 'defeated', and in fact what 'defeat' for that organisation would be. As I pointed out earlier, 'defeating' their ideology militarily is going to be exceptionally difficult given their multinational nature and ideology. Try having some original thoughts instead of regurgitating whatever rubbish you've read on some Putinist blog or other.

    ISIS's expansion has served Russia very well, hasn't it? Its allowed them to create a puppet out of Assad and get a further foothold in the ME. It's been of zero benefit to either the US or UK.

    " ... which is perhaps why 'coalition' airstrikes have been tickling their tummy for the past 13 months."

    Yeah, right. Your knowledge of the situation and region really is most laughable and one-dimensional.

    Of course - I'm delighted in any gains made by the enemies of ISIS. The Iraqi army has also been making very successful advances against ISIS forces.

    None of this is of benefit to the UK - we have no dog in this fight. We are there because that's what the US wants. The American benefit is clear - they want to get rid of Assad. ISIS was not only the most effective force against the Assad Government, it also gave a pretext to impose a de facto no fly zone over Syria, to prevent Assad from using his air force to gain the upper hand.

    'Yeah right' - great argument there. What do you call 7 air strikes a day against the biggest threat to humanity the 21st century has yet seen?
    It was actually Cameron who was all gung ho to bomb Assad after the chemical weapons attack, Obama did sod all. It is now Obama who is bombing ISIS along with the French and Australians in Syria, we have joined Canada on the sidelines
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    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:



    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    I may support nuclear weapons but I'm not an idiot to support nuclear power, if even the japanese failed to master it then it's way too dangerous.

    Great if the wind keeps blowing. What do you do when it doesn't. We regularly have days where wind power produces around 1% of our power needs. The idea it is a reliable alternative is just nuts.
    Tidal power is a good alternative, tides are more reliable and can produce power the same way as hydroelectric stations, as for the days of excess power and low power from wind you can alleviate that with pumped storage schemes like in Dinorwig:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

    There are many cheaper and safer alternatives that produce the same results but are less sexy than nuclear power, with a nuclear reactor a loose bolt could make Britain uninhabitable for decades.
    Tidal is a great idea. And there are many other variations of it that need to be explored. Same for hydro-electrical, hydrothermal and a whole host of other potential sources. What we are talking about here is wind and as a reliable alternative it doesn't even get off the starting blocks.
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    Hi all. Hope you are all well and enjoying the podcast. Quick point on the Trump Reuters poll. Sample size is n=257 from what I can tell. Whilst valid it is worth pointing out that numbers can fluctuate a fair bit at that level and that's leaving aside the fact Iowa and NH probably are more important polls right now. That said, it is fast becoming time to take Trump seriously it seems.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,261



    Are you delighted that the Kurds have retaken Sinjar?

    And I've not contradicted myself at all.

    I must once again ask how you think ISIS is going to be 'defeated', and in fact what 'defeat' for that organisation would be. As I pointed out earlier, 'defeating' their ideology militarily is going to be exceptionally difficult given their multinational nature and ideology. Try having some original thoughts instead of regurgitating whatever rubbish you've read on some Putinist blog or other.

    ISIS's expansion has served Russia very well, hasn't it? Its allowed them to create a puppet out of Assad and get a further foothold in the ME. It's been of zero benefit to either the US or UK.

    " ... which is perhaps why 'coalition' airstrikes have been tickling their tummy for the past 13 months."

    Yeah, right. Your knowledge of the situation and region really is most laughable and one-dimensional.

    Of course - I'm delighted in any gains made by the enemies of ISIS. The Iraqi army has also been making very successful advances against ISIS forces.

    None of this is of benefit to the UK - we have no dog in this fight. We are there because that's what the US wants. The American benefit is clear - they want to get rid of Assad. ISIS was not only the most effective force against the Assad Government, it also gave a pretext to impose a de facto no fly zone over Syria, to prevent Assad from using his air force to gain the upper hand.

    'Yeah right' - great argument there. What do you call 7 air strikes a day against the biggest threat to humanity the 21st century has yet seen?
    Just those two words are better than your entire cumulative arguments. ;)

    You are wrong, because we wanted to get involved *before* ISIS was a significant power in the conflict. And that was mostly because of Assad's use of chemical weapons (yes, I know you don't believe he used them, but we can't help your utter lack of intellectual rigour).

    'The American benefit is clear - they want to get rid of Assad.'

    Really? They cared that much about Assad before he started gassing his own civilians in the civil war? What the west wanted was an end to the civil war, and Assad going was the easiest way for that to happen, especially once he used those weapons.

    As usual, you apply utterly heinous and evil motives to the Americans, and pure and God-like ones to Putin and the Russians.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Speedy said:

    Tidal power is a good alternative, tides are more reliable and can produce power the same way as hydroelectric stations

    The Saltire Prize, an ambitious international contest designed to make Scotland a world leader in wave and tidal power development, was launched with great fanfare in 2008.

    Earlier this year it was revealed none of the competitors could meet the qualifying criteria by the 2017 deadline.

    Despite that, the Scottish Government remained committed to awarding the prize, though it has now emerged that new rules to make it winnable will not not be drawn up until next year, just months before the close of the contest.

    Of the four remaining competitors, one, Aquamarine Power, called in administrators last month.

    A fifth, Pelamis, pulled out after going into administration a year ago.
    http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13953190.Alex_Salmond_s_crisis_hit___10m_wave_power_prize__should_be_scrapped_/
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,290
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    The truly scary prospect is that if the FBI investigations do actually come to anything (and I accept that is a very big 'if') then the US could be facing a choice between Trump and Sanders and there is a real danger Trump could actually win.

    I don't know if Hillary would win, she may have a lead on the nationwide polls however the election is determined in the electoral college, she may rank a huge lead in California and N.York but looking at the state polls she is losing or too close to call in Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, and Michigan.
    So best case for her is a repeat of 2012, worst case the biggest republican victory since 1988.
    Wrong she leads Trump in all those state polls with the possible exception of Florida and the Democrats now tend to poll slightly better in state polls than nationally
    Being a hair's breadth ahead of a raving loon doesn't count as a qualification.
    Historically after 8 years in the White House the opposing party should win, this is the GOP's election to lose, Hillary is running against history but she could yet join George HW Bush and Harry Truman to win an election for their party after more than two terms of their party in office
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    Scott_P said:

    Speedy said:

    Tidal power is a good alternative, tides are more reliable and can produce power the same way as hydroelectric stations

    The Saltire Prize, an ambitious international contest designed to make Scotland a world leader in wave and tidal power development, was launched with great fanfare in 2008.

    Earlier this year it was revealed none of the competitors could meet the qualifying criteria by the 2017 deadline.

    Despite that, the Scottish Government remained committed to awarding the prize, though it has now emerged that new rules to make it winnable will not not be drawn up until next year, just months before the close of the contest.

    Of the four remaining competitors, one, Aquamarine Power, called in administrators last month.

    A fifth, Pelamis, pulled out after going into administration a year ago.
    http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13953190.Alex_Salmond_s_crisis_hit___10m_wave_power_prize__should_be_scrapped_/

    Tidal, the new oil? :D
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Scott_P said:

    Speedy said:

    Tidal power is a good alternative, tides are more reliable and can produce power the same way as hydroelectric stations

    The Saltire Prize, an ambitious international contest designed to make Scotland a world leader in wave and tidal power development, was launched with great fanfare in 2008.

    Earlier this year it was revealed none of the competitors could meet the qualifying criteria by the 2017 deadline.

    Despite that, the Scottish Government remained committed to awarding the prize, though it has now emerged that new rules to make it winnable will not not be drawn up until next year, just months before the close of the contest.

    Of the four remaining competitors, one, Aquamarine Power, called in administrators last month.

    A fifth, Pelamis, pulled out after going into administration a year ago.
    http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13953190.Alex_Salmond_s_crisis_hit___10m_wave_power_prize__should_be_scrapped_/

    Has the SNP managed to do anything right?
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,839

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:



    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    I may support nuclear weapons but I'm not an idiot to support nuclear power, if even the japanese failed to master it then it's way too dangerous.

    Great if the wind keeps blowing. What do you do when it doesn't. We regularly have days where wind power produces around 1% of our power needs. The idea it is a reliable alternative is just nuts.
    The wind really will keep blowing.
    Often yes. Constantly no. There is actually a mathematical equation for percentage of energy derived from wind that you cannot go beyond to avoid too much power at some points and power outages at others - without a method of storing that power.
    The wind will blow always. I'm quite curious as to your equation. Please provide a link.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It's a bit of a stretch to describe wind power as poor value when we're currently producing enough of it to power the whole of the Netherlands.

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Another coal fired power station to close down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-34810806

    Just in time for winter. We are ruled by pygmies.

    Well thanks goodness that another power station is to close (by the way, from the article it burns wood not coal). Someone is thinking of the polar bears.

    However each day something like 25% of our electricity comes from coal burning power stations (and another 25% from filthy nuclear) so we still have a long way to go. Perhaps even higher taxes on electricity might be the right thing to do; those polar bears aren't going to save themselves.
    Thank goodness that the hugely expensive and dangerous nuclear power is nowhere near 25%:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Electricity_Production_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg
    Not sure about 'nowhere near'. According to that chart in 2011 (the last year the chart covers) Nuclear accounted for around 18%, down from nearly 30% in 1998.

    Given the number of coal fired power stations that have been closed it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that nuclear share is now back up around 25%.
    It's 18.01% right now.
    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
    Yep. In case you missed it it is bloody windy at the moment. It happens this time of year.

    Try looking at some proper research into just how poorly we are served by wind turbines.

    http://www.cityam.com/1414407936/wind-farms-unreliable-expensive-and-deeply-inefficient-study-claims

    "UK wind farms top 80 per cent of their potential output for less than a week every year. It gets worse as, according to the study, wind turbines are only able to produce 90 per cent or more of their potential power output for a meagre 17 hours a year."
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,796
    If we are to decarbonise power generation then the only viable option to deal with the issue of matching supply and demand is Carbon Capture and Storage. Without CCS decarbonising not just electricity but the total economy becomes mega expensive.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,261
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:



    So wind power (15.03%) produces almost the same amount as nuclear (17.59%), but nuclear power costs 7 billion pounds per reactor and they tend to explode leaving large areas uninhabited for decades.

    Simply because nuclear power is old fashioned, dangerous and incredibly expensive, does not mean conservatives should support it.

    I may support nuclear weapons but I'm not an idiot to support nuclear power, if even the japanese failed to master it then it's way too dangerous.

    Great if the wind keeps blowing. What do you do when it doesn't. We regularly have days where wind power produces around 1% of our power needs. The idea it is a reliable alternative is just nuts.
    Tidal power is a good alternative, tides are more reliable and can produce power the same way as hydroelectric stations, as for the days of excess power and low power from wind you can alleviate that with pumped storage schemes like in Dinorwig:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

    There are many cheaper and safer alternatives that produce the same results but are less sexy than nuclear power, with a nuclear reactor a loose bolt could make Britain uninhabitable for decades.
    There are only a limited number of places that a pump-storage scheme such as Dinorwig can be built in the UK because of the physical requirements of the site. They also have limited capacity - they're very good for short bursts, less so for longer periods. Windless periods can be very long - sometimes in the order of days.

    *If* we need wind power, we'll need new technologies to perform the load balancing, whether that is flywheels, molten salts, compressed air, or a combination.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Tidal, the new oil? :D

    Scotland, the Saudi Arabia of wave power. Apart from all the bankruptcies. And the fact they don't work.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Speedy said:

    Has the SNP managed to do anything right?

    Win elections.

    @ScottyNational: Today's #FMQs transcript :
    MSP:Do you...
    NS:Poll..
    MSP :.have any..
    NS:ratings..
    MSP:.answers about..
    NS:Poll...
    Msp:
    NS:ratings
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MattUKTweets: Well folks, for another week you have no answers on why Police Scotland have failed this country. Nicola talked about her poll rating. #fmqs

    @1ofthe63: So sturgeons new response to #FMQs she can't answer is to say "look at the polls". Basically Fuk U Scotland,we're in power and unaccountable
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,796
    Solar is the daftest option in the UK. Maximum output when you don't need it, zero output when you do.
This discussion has been closed.