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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Richard Nabavi’s guide to the Irish election part 2

SystemSystem Posts: 12,221
edited November 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Richard Nabavi’s guide to the Irish election part 2

As I mentioned in Part 1, an understanding the voting system is essential to understanding Irish politics. There are 40 constituencies which this time will elect a total of 158 TDs, by Single Transferable Vote (STV). Each constituency elects either 3, 4 or 5 TDs. Voters rank the candidates. The first-preference votes are counted first.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,062
    edited November 2015
    'Those are figures from polling companies? When considering such things you may wish to remember Mr. Smithson saying on here that it was impossible, not unlikely but impossible, for the Conservatives to win the last GE unless they were ten point something ahead in the polls.

    You may also wish to remember the two mutually exclusive trends picked up the polling companies in the run up to the GE (until they strangely enough coincided at a position where nobody could be that far adrift from any other company), and the poll that one company refused to publish because it didn't "feel right" - i.e. it didn't match the polling companies' group think, it just happened to be as it turned out accurate.

    In short if you believe anything that the polling companies come up with is anything other than massaged figures, and figures massaged to suit someone's needs, then you need treatment.'

    As I have consistently pointed out more of the final polls in 2015 showed the Tories ahead than Labour even if they got the margin wrong and these polls in Wales show a shift from Plaid and LD to Labour, NOT a shift from Tories to Labour so it seems entirely plausible to me. I expect Labour to get its best results in Wales and London next May and top the poll in both, even if it performs relatively poorly in the English council elections and faces a fight to stay ahead of the Tories in second place in Scotland
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    1st runner up?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    1st runner up?

    Meh, I had the DiscussionID Required when I had a clear shot at the First.
    *grumble*
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    GeoffM said:

    1st runner up?

    Meh, I had the DiscussionID Required when I had a clear shot at the First.
    *grumble*
    I know that feeling too well :p
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I can wait several minutes from New Thread to seeing it appear.
    GeoffM said:

    1st runner up?

    Meh, I had the DiscussionID Required when I had a clear shot at the First.
    *grumble*
  • The 8/1 on a Fine Gael minority government looks quite tempting:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-fianna-fail-prepared-to-back-minority-fine-gael-government-31454259.html

    Thanks again Richard for a great article.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    I can wait several minutes from New Thread to seeing it appear.

    GeoffM said:

    1st runner up?

    Meh, I had the DiscussionID Required when I had a clear shot at the First.
    *grumble*
    It's the closest the LibDems can organise to a decent scandal these days.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,430
    FPT
    antifrank said:

    Actuaries, for starters.

    Statistically, the chances of there being two bombs on any one plane are so remote as to be capable of being discounted completely.
    No. If you know that you have a bomb, then the probability of you having a bomb is 1. But the probability of any if the *other* passengers having a bomb is independent of your decision and remains the same whether you bring one or not. Your decision to bring a bomb does not affect their decision - they don't know you.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Daily Mail are prattling on about Corbyn not bowing his head low enough at the Cenotaph. I think they're probably adding to his support with this sort of thing.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Plato..patience girl...patience..
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    viewcode said:

    FPT


    antifrank said:

    Actuaries, for starters.

    Statistically, the chances of there being two bombs on any one plane are so remote as to be capable of being discounted completely.
    No. If you know that you have a bomb, then the probability of you having a bomb is 1. But the probability of any if the *other* passengers having a bomb is independent of your decision and remains the same whether you bring one or not. Your decision to bring a bomb does not affect their decision - they don't know you.
    Antifrank. I've been telling that joke for years.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,430
    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT


    antifrank said:

    Actuaries, for starters.

    Statistically, the chances of there being two bombs on any one plane are so remote as to be capable of being discounted completely.
    No. If you know that you have a bomb, then the probability of you having a bomb is 1. But the probability of any if the *other* passengers having a bomb is independent of your decision and remains the same whether you bring one or not. Your decision to bring a bomb does not affect their decision - they don't know you.
    Antifrank. I've been telling that joke for years.
    Go. To. Your. Room.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,536
    AndyJS said:

    The Daily Mail are prattling on about Corbyn not bowing his head low enough at the Cenotaph. I think they're probably adding to his support with this sort of thing.

    Viz have an excellent six-page section on Cobyn's EVVIIILLLLL. It's well worth a read. ;)
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:



    Best placed maybe, but have no intention of actually doing so.

    We have made substantial limits on immigration, including closing off entire visa tiers, taking chunks of student immigration off the table, putting an income requirement on marriage visas etc, all while in government with the Liberal Democrats. Of course, we can go further, such as removing visas for student dependents and household workers, and we also need to do something major on the EU, but we have done a lot and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
    Who is 'we'? You habitually use 'we' to describe, in various contexts, NATO, the UK and US, the Tory Party and the Tory membership, and the UK - it's naive. As a Tory member (I assume), you have nothing to do with Government policy - no influence over it, and no responsibility for it. UKIP have more influence than you - we have a referendum to fend off a challenge from outside; we would never have got one to please some grass-roots collywobbles from the Shires.
    'We' in this context is the Conservative Party. I find it amusing that you knock my usage when you later use 'we' in the same paragraph to refer to UKIP!
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    AandyJS...The Daily Mail prattles....it is what it does..so what
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

  • MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT


    antifrank said:

    Actuaries, for starters.

    Statistically, the chances of there being two bombs on any one plane are so remote as to be capable of being discounted completely.
    No. If you know that you have a bomb, then the probability of you having a bomb is 1. But the probability of any if the *other* passengers having a bomb is independent of your decision and remains the same whether you bring one or not. Your decision to bring a bomb does not affect their decision - they don't know you.
    Antifrank. I've been telling that joke for years.
    I know it's ancient, but I rarely find myself so perfectly teed up so I wasn't going to waste the opportunity.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,915
    JEO said:

    JEO said:



    Best placed maybe, but have no intention of actually doing so.

    We have made substantial limits on immigration, including closing off entire visa tiers, taking chunks of student immigration off the table, putting an income requirement on marriage visas etc, all while in government with the Liberal Democrats. Of course, we can go further, such as removing visas for student dependents and household workers, and we also need to do something major on the EU, but we have done a lot and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
    Who is 'we'? You habitually use 'we' to describe, in various contexts, NATO, the UK and US, the Tory Party and the Tory membership, and the UK - it's naive. As a Tory member (I assume), you have nothing to do with Government policy - no influence over it, and no responsibility for it. UKIP have more influence than you - we have a referendum to fend off a challenge from outside; we would never have got one to please some grass-roots collywobbles from the Shires.
    'We' in this context is the Conservative Party. I find it amusing that you knock my usage when you later use 'we' in the same paragraph to refer to UKIP!
    If I'm not speaking for the whole of UKIP when saying that UKIP welcomes former Tories, I happily withdraw.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Thanks to Richard.I'll be over in Waterford with the family so I'll check what's happening on the ground.Betting wise,I'm quite happy with a long-term position on S/F and Irish Labour lay.
    I think Irish Labour will come into its senses and not repeat the experience of Germany and the UK,where the minor coalition partner gets shafted Lib-Dem style.SF and the Indies know this too.The German model again suggests 13-8 fav on FF/FG coalition is right but might there be value in FG minority if FF was to change course-as a result of water charges perhaps-an 8-1 saver perhaps.
    A straight dutch pays 18%.
  • Say FG go into coalition with Labour but still need a few independents... would that mean the 3/1 was a loser?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    I mentioned Prison Night on FPT - one of the interviewees is this lady - I entirely missed her story at the time. She's so posh middle-class and very funny http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/20/mod-mole-bettina-jordan-barber-jailed-over-sun-leaks
    A “mole” at the Ministry of Defence who made £100,000 from leaking stories to the Sun has been jailed for 12 months, it can now be reported after verdicts were delivered in a related trial.

    Bettina Jordan-Barber, 42, an MoD strategist who briefed ministers, was sent to prison in January after pleading guilty to conspiring to commit misconduct in public office. The charges related to scoops she gave to the Sun about army failures in Afghanistan and Iraq, disciplinary proceedings and sexual misconduct among officers.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Corbyn adds his ire to the flames.

    "It is a matter of serious concern that the chief of the defence staff has today intervened directly in issues of political dispute. It is essential in a democracy that the military remains political neutral at all times," Mr Corbyn said.

    "By publicly taking sides in current political arguments, Sir Nicholas Houghton has clearly breached that constitutional principle. Accordingly, I am writing to the defence secretary to ask him to take action to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/08/jeremy-corbyns-nuclear-we_n_8502836.html?1446991690&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

    The General ought to have been more guarded in his comments, but it would be odd if the CDS didn't have a view on the implications of Corbyn's policies. But convention is convention, and that is to remain silent.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

    I am with you on that Miss, P. I once found myself stranded on Grand Turk for nearly ten days - a tiny island with a couple of good bars, a decent doss house masquerading as a hotel and a dive school run by a couple of retired RN clearance divers. It was hell, but I managed.

    Quite why the tourists in Egypt are whinging I can't think. They went there for the facilities to enjoy a holiday. The facilities are still there, they are not under threat. So if their holiday is extended because of the problems what are they whining about?
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

    I am with you on that Miss, P. I once found myself stranded on Grand Turk for nearly ten days - a tiny island with a couple of good bars, a decent doss house masquerading as a hotel and a dive school run by a couple of retired RN clearance divers. It was hell, but I managed.

    Quite why the tourists in Egypt are whinging I can't think. They went there for the facilities to enjoy a holiday. The facilities are still there, they are not under threat. So if their holiday is extended because of the problems what are they whining about?
    I suppose it depends on your life. Do you have a job that you are the only person that can do it? If you work in large organisation, or the public sector you can disappear for six months and hardly anyone will notice, but if you work for yourself... It can be a very different kettle of fish.

    I suppose if you can mentally get over the fact that you have no control of the situation and you might as well have a three week holiday instead of a two week one, it makes sense.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That @foxinsoxuk approvingly posted a Katie Hopkins article shows that this is a cross Party sentiment. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3305681/KATIE-HOPKINS-Hey-Sharm-sun-seekers-s-reason-holidays-Egypt-cheap-stop-moaning-stuck-grateful-coming-back.html

    Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

    I am with you on that Miss, P. I once found myself stranded on Grand Turk for nearly ten days - a tiny island with a couple of good bars, a decent doss house masquerading as a hotel and a dive school run by a couple of retired RN clearance divers. It was hell, but I managed.

    Quite why the tourists in Egypt are whinging I can't think. They went there for the facilities to enjoy a holiday. The facilities are still there, they are not under threat. So if their holiday is extended because of the problems what are they whining about?
  • Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

    I am with you on that Miss, P. I once found myself stranded on Grand Turk for nearly ten days - a tiny island with a couple of good bars, a decent doss house masquerading as a hotel and a dive school run by a couple of retired RN clearance divers. It was hell, but I managed.

    Quite why the tourists in Egypt are whinging I can't think. They went there for the facilities to enjoy a holiday. The facilities are still there, they are not under threat. So if their holiday is extended because of the problems what are they whining about?
    Lost earnings?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,269
    I still can't get my head around this 'excess votes' business. Physical ballot papers (and if so which ones?) or pro-rated second preferences ( and if so how do you handle third preferences?)?
  • JEO said:

    JEO said:



    Best placed maybe, but have no intention of actually doing so.

    We have made substantial limits on immigration, including closing off entire visa tiers, taking chunks of student immigration off the table, putting an income requirement on marriage visas etc, all while in government with the Liberal Democrats. Of course, we can go further, such as removing visas for student dependents and household workers, and we also need to do something major on the EU, but we have done a lot and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
    Who is 'we'? You habitually use 'we' to describe, in various contexts, NATO, the UK and US, the Tory Party and the Tory membership, and the UK - it's naive. As a Tory member (I assume), you have nothing to do with Government policy - no influence over it, and no responsibility for it. UKIP have more influence than you - we have a referendum to fend off a challenge from outside; we would never have got one to please some grass-roots collywobbles from the Shires.
    'We' in this context is the Conservative Party. I find it amusing that you knock my usage when you later use 'we' in the same paragraph to refer to UKIP!
    "We is a Grandmother!" :lol:
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    I'm one who's usually *in charge* during my work life and depended on/expected to deliver and fix things/be stoic/never complain.

    When it goes entirely beyond my control - it's marvellous. Zero pressure. I was rather envious of colleagues trapped in penguin colonies for days post 9/11 flight groundings!
    notme said:

    Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

    I am with you on that Miss, P. I once found myself stranded on Grand Turk for nearly ten days - a tiny island with a couple of good bars, a decent doss house masquerading as a hotel and a dive school run by a couple of retired RN clearance divers. It was hell, but I managed.

    Quite why the tourists in Egypt are whinging I can't think. They went there for the facilities to enjoy a holiday. The facilities are still there, they are not under threat. So if their holiday is extended because of the problems what are they whining about?
    I suppose it depends on your life. Do you have a job that you are the only person that can do it? If you work in large organisation, or the public sector you can disappear for six months and hardly anyone will notice, but if you work for yourself... It can be a very different kettle of fish.

    I suppose if you can mentally get over the fact that you have no control of the situation and you might as well have a three week holiday instead of a two week one, it makes sense.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,391
    AndyJS said:

    The Daily Mail are prattling on about Corbyn not bowing his head low enough at the Cenotaph. I think they're probably adding to his support with this sort of thing.

    Which is good because, just as with the personal attacks on Ed Miliband, it will help cement him in place to the election... And we know what happens then. ;)
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn adds his ire to the flames.

    "It is a matter of serious concern that the chief of the defence staff has today intervened directly in issues of political dispute. It is essential in a democracy that the military remains political neutral at all times," Mr Corbyn said.

    "By publicly taking sides in current political arguments, Sir Nicholas Houghton has clearly breached that constitutional principle. Accordingly, I am writing to the defence secretary to ask him to take action to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/08/jeremy-corbyns-nuclear-we_n_8502836.html?1446991690&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

    The General ought to have been more guarded in his comments, but it would be odd if the CDS didn't have a view on the implications of Corbyn's policies. But convention is convention, and that is to remain silent.

    If a soldier was interviewed on TV and said he thought his commander's orders were wrong, he would be disciplined pdq.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    notme said:

    Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

    I am with you on that Miss, P. I once found myself stranded on Grand Turk for nearly ten days - a tiny island with a couple of good bars, a decent doss house masquerading as a hotel and a dive school run by a couple of retired RN clearance divers. It was hell, but I managed.

    Quite why the tourists in Egypt are whinging I can't think. They went there for the facilities to enjoy a holiday. The facilities are still there, they are not under threat. So if their holiday is extended because of the problems what are they whining about?
    I suppose it depends on your life. Do you have a job that you are the only person that can do it? If you work in large organisation, or the public sector you can disappear for six months and hardly anyone will notice, but if you work for yourself... It can be a very different kettle of fish.

    I suppose if you can mentally get over the fact that you have no control of the situation and you might as well have a three week holiday instead of a two week one, it makes sense.
    Well, if your business, whatever it is, can cope with you being away for two weeks it will cope with you being away for three. It is not as if you are being held incommunicado after all, there are telephones and email even in Egypt.

    Your second point is that which Miss P was, I think, making. When things go out of control and there is nothing you can do then the best thing is to relax and enjoy the ride. Why get stressed about something you cannot affect?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Spot on, and no one is indispensible. And hardly anyone lies on their death-bed wishing they'd spent more time in the office.

    notme said:

    Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

    I am with you on that Miss, P. I once found myself stranded on Grand Turk for nearly ten days - a tiny island with a couple of good bars, a decent doss house masquerading as a hotel and a dive school run by a couple of retired RN clearance divers. It was hell, but I managed.

    Quite why the tourists in Egypt are whinging I can't think. They went there for the facilities to enjoy a holiday. The facilities are still there, they are not under threat. So if their holiday is extended because of the problems what are they whining about?
    I suppose it depends on your life. Do you have a job that you are the only person that can do it? If you work in large organisation, or the public sector you can disappear for six months and hardly anyone will notice, but if you work for yourself... It can be a very different kettle of fish.

    I suppose if you can mentally get over the fact that you have no control of the situation and you might as well have a three week holiday instead of a two week one, it makes sense.
    Well, if your business, whatever it is, can cope with you being away for two weeks it will cope with you being away for three. It is not as if you are being held incommunicado after all, there are telephones and email even in Egypt.

    Your second point is that which Miss P was, I think, making. When things go out of control and there is nothing you can do then the best thing is to relax and enjoy the ride. Why get stressed about something you cannot affect?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,269

    notme said:

    Said the actress to the bishop. :lol:

    Funnily enough, I'm one of those annoying individuals who rarely gets irked by waiting for hours. I find it rather relaxing to have things entirely beyond my control. I'd be thanking the UK Ambassador even when stuck in Sharm for a week.

    Maybe I missed my purpose by never being a hostage?

    Plato..patience girl...patience..

    I am with you on that Miss, P. I once found myself stranded on Grand Turk for nearly ten days - a tiny island with a couple of good bars, a decent doss house masquerading as a hotel and a dive school run by a couple of retired RN clearance divers. It was hell, but I managed.

    Quite why the tourists in Egypt are whinging I can't think. They went there for the facilities to enjoy a holiday. The facilities are still there, they are not under threat. So if their holiday is extended because of the problems what are they whining about?
    I suppose it depends on your life. Do you have a job that you are the only person that can do it? If you work in large organisation, or the public sector you can disappear for six months and hardly anyone will notice, but if you work for yourself... It can be a very different kettle of fish.

    I suppose if you can mentally get over the fact that you have no control of the situation and you might as well have a three week holiday instead of a two week one, it makes sense.
    Well, if your business, whatever it is, can cope with you being away for two weeks it will cope with you being away for three. It is not as if you are being held incommunicado after all, there are telephones and email even in Egypt.

    Your second point is that which Miss P was, I think, making. When things go out of control and there is nothing you can do then the best thing is to relax and enjoy the ride. Why get stressed about something you cannot affect?
    I found it ridiculous when on the day flights were stopped the news reported 20,000 Brits were 'stranded'. The bulk are on holiday and not due back for several days. So there they are, sipping cocktails at the poolside while the funerals are taking place in Russia.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,745

    I still can't get my head around this 'excess votes' business. Physical ballot papers (and if so which ones?) or pro-rated second preferences ( and if so how do you handle third preferences?)?

    Count them all, record them, then work out the percentages.Thus if candidfate A gets a surplus of 100 votes, then that surplus is distributed in accordance with the percentage of the second choices given to each of B.C, D, and E . And so on.

    It’s a bit slower to count than FPTP, but you can have it quick or you can have it right!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited November 2015
    At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.
  • notme said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn adds his ire to the flames.

    "It is a matter of serious concern that the chief of the defence staff has today intervened directly in issues of political dispute. It is essential in a democracy that the military remains political neutral at all times," Mr Corbyn said.

    "By publicly taking sides in current political arguments, Sir Nicholas Houghton has clearly breached that constitutional principle. Accordingly, I am writing to the defence secretary to ask him to take action to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/08/jeremy-corbyns-nuclear-we_n_8502836.html?1446991690&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

    The General ought to have been more guarded in his comments, but it would be odd if the CDS didn't have a view on the implications of Corbyn's policies. But convention is convention, and that is to remain silent.

    If a soldier was interviewed on TV and said he thought his commander's orders were wrong, he would be disciplined pdq.
    On the other hand Corbyn's intent is to destroy the labour party as we know it and to use its hollowed out shell do destroy our country and all it has stood for for decades if not centuries and give succour to our enemies, the enemies of peace and democracy. Unlike some the CDS appears not to be a traitor.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited November 2015
    FPT
    Just been to a Remembrance Sunday wreath laying. What struck me was just how difficult it is going to be for for someone like Jeremy Corbyn to become Prime Minister. The bulk of the people there were ordinary working people, bound together by a commemoration of our past, the people lost, but also importantly the current people who serve in the armed forces. The dozens of local working mens institutions, clubs and societies all laying wreaths. All deeply proud of the sacrifices made in the past. The spontaneous applauding of the marching servicemen by the large crowds.
    The BBC coverage showed Corbyn after the ceremony went to Horseguards where he was standing chatting with people and (according to commentary) applauding groups as they passed.

    He did ok this morning.

    One thing that the coverage does not really convey (perhaps because it is incomprehensible) is the scale of the carnage, particularly in WW1

    After the Cenotaph parade ended, I wandered down to the War Memorial in the local village.

    It has 8 names from WWII inscribed upon it.

    It has 61 from WWI

    Given the size of the village in 1914, that is a huge chunk of the adult male population.

    There is also a stately home nearby dating back to Tudor times, which passed to the National Trust when all the male heirs to the title and land were killed in WWI

    Unimaginable, and yet reality.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn adds his ire to the flames.

    "It is a matter of serious concern that the chief of the defence staff has today intervened directly in issues of political dispute. It is essential in a democracy that the military remains political neutral at all times," Mr Corbyn said.

    "By publicly taking sides in current political arguments, Sir Nicholas Houghton has clearly breached that constitutional principle. Accordingly, I am writing to the defence secretary to ask him to take action to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/08/jeremy-corbyns-nuclear-we_n_8502836.html?1446991690&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

    The General ought to have been more guarded in his comments, but it would be odd if the CDS didn't have a view on the implications of Corbyn's policies. But convention is convention, and that is to remain silent.

    I assume he's having a word with Eagle to explain why she disagrees that the CDS should remain neutral, as well.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,269

    I still can't get my head around this 'excess votes' business. Physical ballot papers (and if so which ones?) or pro-rated second preferences ( and if so how do you handle third preferences?)?

    Count them all, record them, then work out the percentages.Thus if candidfate A gets a surplus of 100 votes, then that surplus is distributed in accordance with the percentage of the second choices given to each of B.C, D, and E . And so on.

    It’s a bit slower to count than FPTP, but you can have it quick or you can have it right!
    Thanks! If we are to ever get PR here I think I would prefer d'Hondt with primaries to determine the batting order.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572

    Thanks to Richard.I'll be over in Waterford with the family so I'll check what's happening on the ground.Betting wise,I'm quite happy with a long-term position on S/F and Irish Labour lay.
    I think Irish Labour will come into its senses and not repeat the experience of Germany and the UK,where the minor coalition partner gets shafted Lib-Dem style.SF and the Indies know this too.The German model again suggests 13-8 fav on FF/FG coalition is right but might there be value in FG minority if FF was to change course-as a result of water charges perhaps-an 8-1 saver perhaps.
    A straight dutch pays 18%.

    Yes, I'd have thought that Labour would feel like the LibDems did here - "Junior coalition status sucks - l thank God that's over!" FG minority looks more plausible.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,745
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    The Daily Mail are prattling on about Corbyn not bowing his head low enough at the Cenotaph. I think they're probably adding to his support with this sort of thing.

    Which is good because, just as with the personal attacks on Ed Miliband, it will help cement him in place to the election... And we know what happens then. ;)
    Patriotism is, someone said, the last resort of the scoundrel. And misplaced “patriotism” of this sort is scoundrelism of the lowest sort.
  • At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.

    Naught but PB Tory bias!! :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    On topic, how come Sinn Fein have been doing so well lately, if their apparently transfer toxic historic position is no longer as much of a problem, even if they are still seen as unlikely coalition partners?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,745

    I still can't get my head around this 'excess votes' business. Physical ballot papers (and if so which ones?) or pro-rated second preferences ( and if so how do you handle third preferences?)?

    Count them all, record them, then work out the percentages.Thus if candidfate A gets a surplus of 100 votes, then that surplus is distributed in accordance with the percentage of the second choices given to each of B.C, D, and E . And so on.

    It’s a bit slower to count than FPTP, but you can have it quick or you can have it right!
    Thanks! If we are to ever get PR here I think I would prefer d'Hondt with primaries to determine the batting order.
    D’Hondt, I understand, somewhat overstates parties, as opposed to individuals, I think. The Irish method, “pure” STV, enables Independents and small parties to succeed. Whether that’s always a good thing of course is another matter.
    If we did introduce D’Hondt, I would agree with you about open primaries.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.

    Naught but PB Tory bias!! :lol:
    Dr Sunil ((who spent years getting his title and insists on being referred to as Dr)

    It may be bias as you see it but its absolutely true.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I regularly looked at the roll of honour at London Victoria - just the railwaymen was enormous.

    I walked by the Cenotaph every day and it gave me pause every time.
    Scott_P said:

    FPT

    Just been to a Remembrance Sunday wreath laying. What struck me was just how difficult it is going to be for for someone like Jeremy Corbyn to become Prime Minister. The bulk of the people there were ordinary working people, bound together by a commemoration of our past, the people lost, but also importantly the current people who serve in the armed forces. The dozens of local working mens institutions, clubs and societies all laying wreaths. All deeply proud of the sacrifices made in the past. The spontaneous applauding of the marching servicemen by the large crowds.
    The BBC coverage showed Corbyn after the ceremony went to Horseguards where he was standing chatting with people and (according to commentary) applauding groups as they passed.

    He did ok this morning.

    One thing that the coverage does not really convey (perhaps because it is incomprehensible) is the scale of the carnage, particularly in WW1

    After the Cenotaph parade ended, I wandered down to the War Memorial in the local village.

    It has 8 names from WWII inscribed upon it.

    It has 61 from WWI

    Given the size of the village in 1914, that is a huge chunk of the adult male population.

    There is also a stately home nearby dating back to Tudor times, which passed to the National Trust when all the male heirs to the title and land were killed in WWI

    Unimaginable, and yet reality.

  • At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.

    Naught but PB Tory bias!! :lol:
    Dr Sunil ((who spent years getting his title and insists on being referred to as Dr)

    It may be bias as you see it but its absolutely true.
    Farron looks like he should still be in short trousers. Corbyn seems pathalogically unable to button up his coat or even begin to look neat.
    As Mr Prasannan's comments, they are increasingly banal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited November 2015
    Interesting main headline on the BBC site for the Corbyn story. 'Corbyn attacks general in nuclear row'. If anything, Corbyn was attacked and thus 'Corbyn responds to general's nuclear attack' would be more appropriate. I wonder if it will change. My oft mentioned favourite headline change was during the first year of of the last parliament, where 'Osborne wields spending cuts axe' was changed to something less highly charged.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited November 2015
    Afternoon. A couple of clarifications and updates to the article (which was written over a week ago):

    1. The betting odds have shifted slightly, with FG/Lab now 7/2.

    2. There has been a new poll this weekend, Millward Brown/Sunday Independent: FG 29%, FF 24%, SF 21%, Labour 7%, Others 19%. That's broadly consistent with other recent polls, and provides no comfort for Labour: Adrian Kavanagh's seat projection on those figures is FG 60, FF 40, SF 33, Labour 0 (!), Others 25.

    3. Unfortunately the hyperlinks in the article somehow got stripped out. The most important one is the one to Adrian Kavanagh's site:

    http://adriankavanaghelections.org/

    On the FG/Lab pact:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0914/727738-coalitions-work-not-yet-complete-taoiseach/

    On speculation on what FF might do:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-fianna-fail-prepared-to-back-minority-fine-gael-government-31454259.html

    4. Antifrank is right that the bet on a minority FG government could well be good value. Everything depends on whether Labour recover or not; on current polling, they are just below the critical point. They don't need to recover much to start winning a reasonable of seats. If they can creep back up over about 10% on first prefs then things will look a lot better for them. Since both FG and Labour have explicitly said they want the coalition to continue, I think that if Labour do get more than a derisory seat count then a continuation of the coalition is very likely. If Labour don't manage that, then a minority FG government looks likely. I don't think we'll see an FF/FG coalition almost whatever happens.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GeneralBoles: According to science it was a perfectly fine bow from Jeremy Corbyn https://t.co/sV0m0VAEt5
  • Say FG go into coalition with Labour but still need a few independents... would that mean the 3/1 was a loser?

    On that point, you need to look at the exact terms of the market (PP word it in terms of the ministers in the cabinet). If there is support from independents or very small parties, it will probably not be a formal coalition but simply agreeing to support the government in return for some pork-barreling or a specific policy.
  • At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.

    Naught but PB Tory bias!! :lol:
    Dr Sunil ((who spent years getting his title and insists on being referred to as Dr)

    It may be bias as you see it but its absolutely true.
    Farron looks like he should still be in short trousers. Corbyn seems pathalogically unable to button up his coat or even begin to look neat.
    As Mr Prasannan's comments, they are increasingly banal.
    Note: The subject Flightpath responds to the stimulus as predicted...
  • ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    Corbyn looked to be chatting with friends/acquaintances afterwards, which is hardly surprising. I would have thought there would be an official reception for the politicos, but maybe not.
    Is it possible that he has worked out that these commemorations are remembrances of the dead and not some glorification of war. I believe he is going on to some anti war protest later today, which again is hardly surprising.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Please tell me that Guido has got it wrong and that Labour don't really want to have Salma Yaqoob as an MP.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I believe he is going on to some anti war protest later today, which again is hardly surprising.

    @jeremycorbyn: As always, at the North Islington war memorial in Manor Gardens. Reading Futility by Wilfred Owen #RemembranceSunday https://t.co/LXiNL4ltOH
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    As former leader of Respect, and one of their PPCs and helped with Corbyn's leadership - she's IDEAL!

    EDIT Yaqoob stood in the 2010 general election for the Respect Party in the Birmingham Hall Green constituency,[11] and came second to Roger Godsiff of the Labour Party, trailing by 3,799 votes. Yaqoob's 12,240 votes was an increase of 13.9%, with an 11.7% vote swing from Labour to Respect.[12] The Green Party had stood down its candidate in favour of Yaqoob after a members vote

    The Green Party leader Caroline Lucas stated she believed "that Salma will make a very good MP".[14] The retiring Labour MP Lynne Jones had also backed Yaqoob's candidacy ahead of Labour's Godsiff, saying "Salma Yaqoob is an excellent candidate of great ability who, as a councillor, has shown that she works hard for her constituents. I have a lot of time for her." and "In the Hall Green constituency ... I am not happy with the endorsement of the Labour candidate".[15] During the campaign, Yaqoob was offered a choice of two 'safe seats' by the Labour Party, one in Birmingham and one in the Black Country. She declined both, stating, "If it was just about my career it would have been a nice move, but it is not all about me".[16]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salma_Yaqoob
    Floater said:

    Please tell me that Guido has got it wrong and that Labour don't really want to have Salma Yaqoob as an MP.

  • At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.

    Naught but PB Tory bias!! :lol:
    Dr Sunil ((who spent years getting his title and insists on being referred to as Dr)

    It may be bias as you see it but its absolutely true.
    Farron looks like he should still be in short trousers. Corbyn seems pathalogically unable to button up his coat or even begin to look neat.
    As Mr Prasannan's comments, they are increasingly banal.
    Note: The subject Flightpath responds to the stimulus as predicted...
    Banal. And boorish. If only he were as funny as he thinks.
  • At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.

    Naught but PB Tory bias!! :lol:
    Dr Sunil ((who spent years getting his title and insists on being referred to as Dr)

    It may be bias as you see it but its absolutely true.
    Farron looks like he should still be in short trousers. Corbyn seems pathalogically unable to button up his coat or even begin to look neat.
    As Mr Prasannan's comments, they are increasingly banal.
    Note: The subject Flightpath responds to the stimulus as predicted...
    Banal. And boorish. If only he were as funny as he thinks.
    Note: The subject Flightpath continues to have his delusional world manipulated successfully...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,915

    At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.

    Naught but PB Tory bias!! :lol:
    Be nice - give them their moment. Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party and the country. May as well enjoy it.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
  • Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Scott channels Abby...

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-miliband
  • The latest Irish poll also has a lot of stuff about satisfaction with party leaders and economic optimism:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/poll-public-optimism-about-future-at-its-highest-level-since-the-crash-34179547.html

    Good figures there for both parties of government, even if Labour don't so far seem to be gaining in the headline first-pref figures.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited November 2015

    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Scott channels Abby...

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-miliband
    Last man standing would be SION SIMON


    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Not currently a member of the PLP.

    Apart from that...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,838
    edited November 2015

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Peterhouse College, Cambridge. I am told that it was for some obscure reason connected to the fact that it was one of the few Oxbridge colleges with an active officer cadet corps before Munich, so its officers were the best trained and had the most dangerous missions in the early part of the war. However, that is of course not a local war memorial.

    I think there are some villages which escaped WWI but had casualties in WWII, but I must admit I can't name any off the top of my head.

    EDIT: Some information here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23470846
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,915
    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    I don't disagree, but it's hardly a ringing endorsement of Cameron's leadership that at least he doesn't do weird gurning like Ed Milliband. Surely a little more should be expected.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    edited November 2015
    ydoethur said:

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Peterhouse College, Cambridge. I am told that it was for some obscure reason connected to the fact that it was one of the few Oxbridge colleges with an active officer cadet corps before Munich, so its officers were the best trained and had the most dangerous missions in the early part of the war. However, that is of course not a local war memorial.

    I think there are some villages which escaped WWI but had casualties in WWII, but I must admit I can't name any off the top of my head.
    The list of thankful villages (those who suffered no casualties in WW1) can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thankful_Villages . Those villages marked with a D also had no casualties in WW2.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,745

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Possibly a comparison could be made with the RAF and particularly Bomber Command.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,838
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Peterhouse College, Cambridge. I am told that it was for some obscure reason connected to the fact that it was one of the few Oxbridge colleges with an active officer cadet corps before Munich, so its officers were the best trained and had the most dangerous missions in the early part of the war. However, that is of course not a local war memorial.

    I think there are some villages which escaped WWI but had casualties in WWII, but I must admit I can't name any off the top of my head.
    The list of thankful villages (those who suffered no casualties in WW1) can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thankful_Villages . Those villages marked with a D also had no casualties in WW2.
    The one of the doubly thankful villages that always amused me was my local one - Upper Slaughter!
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Former military personnel often wear their uniforms at these kind of events. Has there been a PM who had served, who has wore a uniform for such an event?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    ydoethur said:

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Peterhouse College, Cambridge. I am told that it was for some obscure reason connected to the fact that it was one of the few Oxbridge colleges with an active officer cadet corps before Munich, so its officers were the best trained and had the most dangerous missions in the early part of the war. However, that is of course not a local war memorial.

    I think there are some villages which escaped WWI but had casualties in WWII, but I must admit I can't name any off the top of my head.
    I recall an article in the Telegraph last year which spoke of a couple of villages, maybe three, where every member who went off to war in WW1 came home again. The article was silent about their losses in WW2 though. That is the nearest I know of to the condition Mr. Path mentioned.

    On a side note, as part of a village history project, I did some research into the names on my local WW1 memorial and found it listed four men who survived the war. Three died soon afterwards, though from illnesses not wounds, and one who was discharged from the army fit and well in 1920 and last heard of living in London.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,838
    edited November 2015
    notme said:

    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Former military personnel often wear their uniforms at these kind of events. Has there been a PM who had served, who has wore a uniform for such an event?
    Not that I am aware of. Heath was the last ex-military PM and I'm pretty sure he wore a suit (edit - whoops, forgot Callaghan was in the Navy for a while). I think the first would have been Churchill, but I don't think he ever wore a uniform and that probably set a precedent for Attlee, Eden, Macmillan etc.

    Mr Llama, there are a few more than 'three or four' that escaped unscathed. With regard to names on the memorials, it's always a bit difficult. As late as 1963 there was a case of death from war wounds in the First World War, but I doubt if the person concerned was included on it. I'm intrigued by this one who was on the memorial who was discharged fit and well though. Could it possibly have been somebody else with the same name?
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    As former leader of Respect, and one of their PPCs and helped with Corbyn's leadership - she's IDEAL!

    EDIT Yaqoob stood in the 2010 general election for the Respect Party in the Birmingham Hall Green constituency,[11] and came second to Roger Godsiff of the Labour Party, trailing by 3,799 votes. Yaqoob's 12,240 votes was an increase of 13.9%, with an 11.7% vote swing from Labour to Respect.[12] The Green Party had stood down its candidate in favour of Yaqoob after a members vote

    The Green Party leader Caroline Lucas stated she believed "that Salma will make a very good MP".[14] The retiring Labour MP Lynne Jones had also backed Yaqoob's candidacy ahead of Labour's Godsiff, saying "Salma Yaqoob is an excellent candidate of great ability who, as a councillor, has shown that she works hard for her constituents. I have a lot of time for her." and "In the Hall Green constituency ... I am not happy with the endorsement of the Labour candidate".[15] During the campaign, Yaqoob was offered a choice of two 'safe seats' by the Labour Party, one in Birmingham and one in the Black Country. She declined both, stating, "If it was just about my career it would have been a nice move, but it is not all about me".[16]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salma_Yaqoob

    Floater said:

    Please tell me that Guido has got it wrong and that Labour don't really want to have Salma Yaqoob as an MP.

    Would she then resign from Labour if Corbyn invited Galloway to rejoin?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    At the Cenotaph...Corbyn looks like an old man. Farron looks like he's only lately out of short trousers, The SNP guy looks like he's up for a brawl in the Gorbals. The only one who LOOKS statesmanlike is Dave.

    Naught but PB Tory bias!! :lol:
    Be nice - give them their moment. Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party and the country. May as well enjoy it.
    True but the Army like a smart suit as in Blair and his heir Dave, and agrees with them.
    I imagine that is why they were concerned about Harold Wilson in the early years of Vietnam not supporting with full commitment to the USA.
    The talk of coups was always in the air.

    A really popular left wing leader would test their democratic role.
    They seem to be restless with the current Leader of the opposition, who has no chance.

    Maybe they think the next few years of cuts , could cause problems and they should finish him off now.
  • ydoethur said:

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Peterhouse College, Cambridge. I am told that it was for some obscure reason connected to the fact that it was one of the few Oxbridge colleges with an active officer cadet corps before Munich, so its officers were the best trained and had the most dangerous missions in the early part of the war. However, that is of course not a local war memorial.

    I think there are some villages which escaped WWI but had casualties in WWII, but I must admit I can't name any off the top of my head.
    I recall an article in the Telegraph last year which spoke of a couple of villages, maybe three, where every member who went off to war in WW1 came home again. The article was silent about their losses in WW2 though. That is the nearest I know of to the condition Mr. Path mentioned.

    On a side note, as part of a village history project, I did some research into the names on my local WW1 memorial and found it listed four men who survived the war. Three died soon afterwards, though from illnesses not wounds, and one who was discharged from the army fit and well in 1920 and last heard of living in London.
    Thankful villages that are not doubly thankful:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thankful_Villages
  • notme said:

    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Former military personnel often wear their uniforms at these kind of events. Has there been a PM who had served, who has wore a uniform for such an event?
    The only Prime Minister that springs to mind that may have worn it is the Duke of Wellington.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,000

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    I seem to recall that there were only six parishes in the UK that didn't lose at least one person in the Great War.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,838
    edited November 2015

    notme said:

    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Former military personnel often wear their uniforms at these kind of events. Has there been a PM who had served, who has wore a uniform for such an event?
    The only Prime Minister that springs to mind that may have worn it is the Duke of Wellington.
    He died in 1852 - 67 years before the first Armistice Day!

    Marquee Mark, there were 52/53 villages - however, not all of them would have been independent parishes, of course. That being said, it would surely have been more than six.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,532

    notme said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn adds his ire to the flames.

    "It is a matter of serious concern that the chief of the defence staff has today intervened directly in issues of political dispute. It is essential in a democracy that the military remains political neutral at all times," Mr Corbyn said.

    "By publicly taking sides in current political arguments, Sir Nicholas Houghton has clearly breached that constitutional principle. Accordingly, I am writing to the defence secretary to ask him to take action to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/08/jeremy-corbyns-nuclear-we_n_8502836.html?1446991690&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

    The General ought to have been more guarded in his comments, but it would be odd if the CDS didn't have a view on the implications of Corbyn's policies. But convention is convention, and that is to remain silent.

    If a soldier was interviewed on TV and said he thought his commander's orders were wrong, he would be disciplined pdq.
    On the other hand Corbyn's intent is to destroy the labour party as we know it and to use its hollowed out shell do destroy our country and all it has stood for for decades if not centuries and give succour to our enemies, the enemies of peace and democracy. Unlike some the CDS appears not to be a traitor.
    What a melodrama Queen
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,532
    edited November 2015

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    The Daily Mail are prattling on about Corbyn not bowing his head low enough at the Cenotaph. I think they're probably adding to his support with this sort of thing.

    Which is good because, just as with the personal attacks on Ed Miliband, it will help cement him in place to the election... And we know what happens then. ;)
    Patriotism is, someone said, the last resort of the scoundrel. And misplaced “patriotism” of this sort is scoundrelism of the lowest sort.
    A surfeit of the latter on here. Lots of armchair soldiers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,000

    ydoethur said:

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Peterhouse College, Cambridge. I am told that it was for some obscure reason connected to the fact that it was one of the few Oxbridge colleges with an active officer cadet corps before Munich, so its officers were the best trained and had the most dangerous missions in the early part of the war. However, that is of course not a local war memorial.

    I think there are some villages which escaped WWI but had casualties in WWII, but I must admit I can't name any off the top of my head.
    I recall an article in the Telegraph last year which spoke of a couple of villages, maybe three, where every member who went off to war in WW1 came home again. The article was silent about their losses in WW2 though. That is the nearest I know of to the condition Mr. Path mentioned.

    On a side note, as part of a village history project, I did some research into the names on my local WW1 memorial and found it listed four men who survived the war. Three died soon afterwards, though from illnesses not wounds, and one who was discharged from the army fit and well in 1920 and last heard of living in London.
    I suspect that many of those weakened by injury in WW1 would have been at greater risk of falling to the Spanish Flu epidemic that claimed five times the number of dead in the Great War itself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,838

    I suspect that many of those weakened by injury in WW1 would have been at greater risk of falling to the Spanish Flu epidemic that claimed five times the number of dead in the Great War itself.

    You would suspect correctly. It proved especially lethal to young men.

    Novelist Nevil Shute, who was at that time a private in a foot regiment, later wrote about his experiences with a specialist funeral party in Kent formed to carry out the huge number of burials caused by the epidemic. He said that forming such parties was the only way the army could cope with the numbers of dead, which seems ironic after 723,000 British and 277,000 other Commonwealth soldiers had been killed in the previous four and a bit years.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn adds his ire to the flames.

    "It is a matter of serious concern that the chief of the defence staff has today intervened directly in issues of political dispute. It is essential in a democracy that the military remains political neutral at all times," Mr Corbyn said.

    "By publicly taking sides in current political arguments, Sir Nicholas Houghton has clearly breached that constitutional principle. Accordingly, I am writing to the defence secretary to ask him to take action to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/08/jeremy-corbyns-nuclear-we_n_8502836.html?1446991690&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

    The General ought to have been more guarded in his comments, but it would be odd if the CDS didn't have a view on the implications of Corbyn's policies. But convention is convention, and that is to remain silent.

    Agreed, a stance ALL public servants should adopt about ALL parties.

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    notme said:

    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Former military personnel often wear their uniforms at these kind of events. Has there been a PM who had served, who has wore a uniform for such an event?
    The only Prime Minister that springs to mind that may have worn it is the Duke of Wellington.
    Churchill was a commissioned officer wasnt he? Just checked, so was Eden, Macmillan, Heath and Callaghan.

    Do any MPs wear their military dress uniform to Remembrance Day? Maybe it is shunned on as they are there represent the civilians of their constituency not the soldiers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_P said:

    FPT

    Just been to a Remembrance Sunday wreath laying. What struck me was just how difficult it is going to be for for someone like Jeremy Corbyn to become Prime Minister. The bulk of the people there were ordinary working people, bound together by a commemoration of our past, the people lost, but also importantly the current people who serve in the armed forces. The dozens of local working mens institutions, clubs and societies all laying wreaths. All deeply proud of the sacrifices made in the past. The spontaneous applauding of the marching servicemen by the large crowds.
    The BBC coverage showed Corbyn after the ceremony went to Horseguards where he was standing chatting with people and (according to commentary) applauding groups as they passed.

    He did ok this morning.

    One thing that the coverage does not really convey (perhaps because it is incomprehensible) is the scale of the carnage, particularly in WW1

    After the Cenotaph parade ended, I wandered down to the War Memorial in the local village.

    It has 8 names from WWII inscribed upon it.

    It has 61 from WWI

    Given the size of the village in 1914, that is a huge chunk of the adult male population.

    There is also a stately home nearby dating back to Tudor times, which passed to the National Trust when all the male heirs to the title and land were killed in WWI

    Unimaginable, and yet reality.

    We lost 30+ family members in the first world war, including the only son of the branch that looked after the family home (it ended up with the National Trust as well)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,532
    edited November 2015

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Afternoon Hurst. I am reading a very interesting book at the moment, "Mountain and Flood", the story of the 52 Lowland Division in WWII. My father was in the 4th /5th Royal Scots Fusiliers as part of it. They spent 3 years in the mountains of Scotland training for mountain warfare. In the end they hardly got above 100 feet. An incredible story.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,838
    edited November 2015
    notme said:

    notme said:

    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Former military personnel often wear their uniforms at these kind of events. Has there been a PM who had served, who has wore a uniform for such an event?
    The only Prime Minister that springs to mind that may have worn it is the Duke of Wellington.
    Churchill was a commissioned officer wasnt he? Just checked, so was Eden, Macmillan, Heath and Callaghan.

    Do any MPs wear their military dress uniform to Remembrance Day? Maybe it is shunned on as they are there represent the civilians of their constituency not the soldiers.
    I think it's more that they are not soldiers at the time, but civilians. Which is as it should be. Most of the veterans I have ever seen there are wearing suits. They may have worn their medals, of course.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    ydoethur said:

    notme said:

    Scott_P said:

    Looking statesmanlike at the Cenotaph and on other state occasions represents the entire value of Dave's leadership of the party

    A feat Ed could only dream about...

    Somebody asked the question recently, if the Corbynistas and the realists in the PLP engage in a bloody fight to the death, who might be the last man (or woman) standing to take over the leadership?

    Could it possiblty be Ed?
    Former military personnel often wear their uniforms at these kind of events. Has there been a PM who had served, who has wore a uniform for such an event?
    Not that I am aware of. Heath was the last ex-military PM and I'm pretty sure he wore a suit (edit - whoops, forgot Callaghan was in the Navy for a while). I think the first would have been Churchill, but I don't think he ever wore a uniform and that probably set a precedent for Attlee, Eden, Macmillan etc.

    Mr Llama, there are a few more than 'three or four' that escaped unscathed. With regard to names on the memorials, it's always a bit difficult. As late as 1963 there was a case of death from war wounds in the First World War, but I doubt if the person concerned was included on it. I'm intrigued by this one who was on the memorial who was discharged fit and well though. Could it possibly have been somebody else with the same name?
    Doc, you are quite right on the first point and I stand, properly, corrected. Mt thanks to those who linked to the Thankful Village web page.

    I am also intrigued by the survivor whose name is on the memorial. From what I have been able to establish he was one of five brothers who went off to the war. According to the 1911 census they lived, with their parents and two sisters, in a small cottage which still stands just up the road from me. Three of the brothers are commemorated on the village war memorial. Two were definitely were killed and the Commonwealth War Graves Commission have details of their graves.

    The third, whose initials are very different from his siblings, is one of the few whose army record survived the bombing in WW2. That record shows his discharge to an address in London. The CWGC has no record of him or the other two survivors.

    One would have thought that the family might have had something to say when the memorial was being planned and the names gathered, but apparently not. However, one must remember that in the aftermath of WW1 Hurstpierpoint was still a very rural area and a family who lived, all nine of them, in a two-up two-down cottage may not have been either very well educated or capable of having their voice heard (I strongly suspect we are in twelve toes territory). I have tried to track down the family, who seem long since to have left the area. but so far without success.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    O/T Very early and only partial results from Burma seem to suggest that Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy is doing well in today's elections. A landslide for the Lady?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,838
    edited November 2015

    Doc, you are quite right on the first point and I stand, properly, corrected. Mt thanks to those who linked to the Thankful Village web page.

    I am also intrigued by the survivor whose name is on the memorial. From what I have been able to establish he was one of five brothers who went off to the war. According to the 1911 census they lived, with their parents and two sisters, in a small cottage which still stands just up the road from me. Three of the brothers are commemorated on the village war memorial. Two were definitely were killed and the Commonwealth War Graves Commission have details of their graves.

    The third, whose initials are very different from his siblings, is one of the few whose army record survived the bombing in WW2. That record shows his discharge to an address in London. The CWGC has no record of him or the other two survivors.

    One would have thought that the family might have had something to say when the memorial was being planned and the names gathered, but apparently not. However, one must remember that in the aftermath of WW1 Hurstpierpoint was still a very rural area and a family who lived, all nine of them, in a two-up two-down cottage may not have been either very well educated or capable of having their voice heard (I strongly suspect we are in twelve toes territory). I have tried to track down the family, who seem long since to have left the area. but so far without success.

    Interesting, and curious. The only other possibility that occurs to me is that if he couldn't read or write very well, and had been listed as 'missing believed killed' only to turn up later as a PoW or something some time after the war, he might have been added by mistake that way. However, I would have thought that would have shown up on his file.

    Or, of course - and this is the melodramatic explanation! - he may have had somebody tell his family he was dead while he stayed in London.

    If you ever do unravel the mystery, I'd be interested to hear the story.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,536
    JohnO said:

    O/T Very early and only partial results from Burma seem to suggest that Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy is doing well in today's elections. A landslide for the Lady?

    It'd have to be to get a majority against the General's seats (ISTR she needs two-thirds of the vote to get a majority). Even then she can't be leader AIUI as her sons have foreign passports.

    (Might be wrong - might have misheard the radio)
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    malcolmg said:

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Afternoon Hurst. I am reading a very interesting book at the moment, "Mountain and Flood", the story of the 52 Lowland Division in WWII. My father was in the 4th /5th Royal Scots Fusiliers as part of it. They spent 3 years in the mountains of Scotland training for mountain warfare. In the end they hardly got above 100 feet. An incredible story.
    Good Afternoon, Mr. G., I really do wish you hadn't told me about that book. Now my reading list has gone up by one and is already long enough to challenge my abilities to get through in my lifetime.

    I always thought of the 52nd as an airborne formation that was never used in the role but I supposed they must have done something before that. Didn't they fight with the Canadians in the Scheldt estuary? Actually, from a distant memory stirring, that might be better expressed as fight against the Canadians in the Scheldt estuary.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    malcolmg said:

    notme said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn adds his ire to the flames.

    "It is a matter of serious concern that the chief of the defence staff has today intervened directly in issues of political dispute. It is essential in a democracy that the military remains political neutral at all times," Mr Corbyn said.

    "By publicly taking sides in current political arguments, Sir Nicholas Houghton has clearly breached that constitutional principle. Accordingly, I am writing to the defence secretary to ask him to take action to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/08/jeremy-corbyns-nuclear-we_n_8502836.html?1446991690&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

    The General ought to have been more guarded in his comments, but it would be odd if the CDS didn't have a view on the implications of Corbyn's policies. But convention is convention, and that is to remain silent.

    If a soldier was interviewed on TV and said he thought his commander's orders were wrong, he would be disciplined pdq.
    On the other hand Corbyn's intent is to destroy the labour party as we know it and to use its hollowed out shell do destroy our country and all it has stood for for decades if not centuries and give succour to our enemies, the enemies of peace and democracy. Unlike some the CDS appears not to be a traitor.
    What a melodrama Queen
    Truly the author hates everything about Labour from 1900 onwards, and anything it achieved.
    I suppose the SNP are traitors also in his opinion for wanting Independence,and against replacing Trident.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    edited November 2015

    JohnO said:

    O/T Very early and only partial results from Burma seem to suggest that Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy is doing well in today's elections. A landslide for the Lady?

    It'd have to be to get a majority against the General's seats (ISTR she needs two-thirds of the vote to get a majority). Even then she can't be leader AIUI as her sons have foreign passports.

    (Might be wrong - might have misheard the radio)
    You did not mishear. The military hold 25% of the seats in both Houses and she is indeed ineligible to become President under the current constitution. However, the very preliminary patterns might suggest that her party may even surpass the 2/3 of the vote. In 1990, the NLD won 80%.

    https://twitter.com/jonahfisherbbc
  • Yorkcity said:

    malcolmg said:

    notme said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn adds his ire to the flames.

    "It is a matter of serious concern that the chief of the defence staff has today intervened directly in issues of political dispute. It is essential in a democracy that the military remains political neutral at all times," Mr Corbyn said.

    "By publicly taking sides in current political arguments, Sir Nicholas Houghton has clearly breached that constitutional principle. Accordingly, I am writing to the defence secretary to ask him to take action to ensure that the neutrality of the armed forces is upheld."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/08/jeremy-corbyns-nuclear-we_n_8502836.html?1446991690&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

    The General ought to have been more guarded in his comments, but it would be odd if the CDS didn't have a view on the implications of Corbyn's policies. But convention is convention, and that is to remain silent.

    If a soldier was interviewed on TV and said he thought his commander's orders were wrong, he would be disciplined pdq.
    On the other hand Corbyn's intent is to destroy the labour party as we know it and to use its hollowed out shell do destroy our country and all it has stood for for decades if not centuries and give succour to our enemies, the enemies of peace and democracy. Unlike some the CDS appears not to be a traitor.
    What a melodrama Queen
    Truly the author hates everything about Labour from 1900 onwards, and anything it achieved.
    I suppose the SNP are traitors also in his opinion for wanting Independence,and against replacing Trident.
    I thought the SNP thought everyone who supported the union were traitors.
    It's not me that hates labour, its the Corbynites. I can respect people like poor Mrs Duffy, i was brought up surrounded by them. If you read what I said it was about the party within a party that is intent on taking over labour. When loony corbynites talk about the hard right and how they are going to eliminate them they are talking about Liz Kendall and the likes of Cooper.
  • ydoethur said:

    ScottP .... Re war memorials.(at 2.49)
    Yes you usually see a great disproportion between losses.
    However some villages will have fewer WW1 names in proportion. This is because at the beginning of the WW1 certain groups joined up en mass from the same area into the same unit. Later we had conscription and recruits were distributed more evenly.
    In WW1 we were involved in a continental wide mass war for 4 solid years. We were only involved in continental warfare for about 1 year in WW2. During that time our ground losses were comparable.

    ...

    Mr. Path, I don't think I have ever seen a local war memorial on which the number of people from WW2 was larger than the number from WW1. I suppose in theory one should exist but if there is one I should be interested to hear of it.

    You second point is however well made. I shall get back on a hobbyhorse of mine and state that an infantryman in the Normandy campaign in 1944 was more likely to suffer death or wounds than an infantryman in the Somme campaign of 1916.
    Peterhouse College, Cambridge. I am told that it was for some obscure reason connected to the fact that it was one of the few Oxbridge colleges with an active officer cadet corps before Munich, so its officers were the best trained and had the most dangerous missions in the early part of the war. However, that is of course not a local war memorial.

    I think there are some villages which escaped WWI but had casualties in WWII, but I must admit I can't name any off the top of my head.
    I recall an article in the Telegraph last year which spoke of a couple of villages, maybe three, where every member who went off to war in WW1 came home again. The article was silent about their losses in WW2 though. That is the nearest I know of to the condition Mr. Path mentioned.

    On a side note, as part of a village history project, I did some research into the names on my local WW1 memorial and found it listed four men who survived the war. Three died soon afterwards, though from illnesses not wounds, and one who was discharged from the army fit and well in 1920 and last heard of living in London.
    I suspect that many of those weakened by injury in WW1 would have been at greater risk of falling to the Spanish Flu epidemic that claimed five times the number of dead in the Great War itself.
    And weakened by hunger too - there were food riots in many combatant countries.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,536
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    O/T Very early and only partial results from Burma seem to suggest that Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy is doing well in today's elections. A landslide for the Lady?

    It'd have to be to get a majority against the General's seats (ISTR she needs two-thirds of the vote to get a majority). Even then she can't be leader AIUI as her sons have foreign passports.

    (Might be wrong - might have misheard the radio)
    You did not mishear. The military hold 25% of the seats in both Houses and she is indeed ineligible to become President under the current constitution. However, the very preliminary patterns might suggest that her party may even surpass the 2/3 of the vote. In 1990, the NLD won 80%.

    https://twitter.com/jonahfisherbbc
    Thanks. It sounded so ridiculous as I wrote it I was certain it couldn't be right!
  • Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, Mr. Llama, I do apologise, I somehow managed to miss both your replies to me on the previous thread.

    Another Kickstarter perhaps worth considering is Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Think of Elder Scrolls, but set in the real world, in a condensed but generally realistic map of Bohemia several hundred years ago. The layered armour system appears the best since Dragon's Dogma, and although the release has been pushed back (2016 for consoles, I think) it looks intriguing.

    Mr. Llama, I share you dislike of canine demise in videogames (I never had a Dawnguard husky as a companion for that reason), but Dogmeat [and other companions] cannot die in combat. They can, I think, get temporarily wounded and put out of the fight for a little while, but they can't actually get killed in combat.
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