iSam. A successful party requires more than one able participant. A one man band with a Leader who falls out with any one showing a modicum of success is not a party. You attack Suzanne Evans when there is no evidence of her attacking Farage..... of course some of us are very happy for UKIP to carry on in this way except that their divise approach to everything will undermine an effective joined up campaign for the Leave vote. It is no surprise that the Remain campaigns seem able to agree whereas the Leave campaigns are split, because of the role of Farage's group in UKIP.
It baffles me why people on here get so het up about trying to win an argument that hey tell outright lies. Why would you bother?
I have not attacked Suzanne Evans at all, in fact I said I thought she was a very nice person. All I pointed out was that she failed in a few things in the same way as Farage had, which meant she would get the same abuse he does
(snip)
To be fair, whenever anyone touts her as a potential replacement for Farage, you mention the fact that she lost her seat on Merton Council. Whilst factual, it's also rather biased as you never mention (or seem to account for) Farage's repeated failures.
I wouldn't accuse you of smearing, just blindness.
The CDS should have a right to speak out where he can see the safety and security of the realm being seriously undermined. It perhaps would be better behind closed doors but the fact this has been made public makes me wonder how bad this really now is.
While there is merit in that, I do not see how Corbyn's stance seriously undermines the safety of the realm. He is not in power, and there seems only a very remote chance he ever will be. If we were five months from an election and it looked as though Corbyn would win that argument might have force (although that would be an even more terrifying intervention). But we're not, and he isn't going to. Indeed, the odds of him even fighting an election are no better than even.
So we come back to the point - the army should be politically neutral. The last time the army's top echelons became involved in partisan politics was over the Irish Home Rule crisis - where at one time there was a serious threat that they would mutiny en masse and even possibly effectively disband themselves just as Europe lurched towards war. Their behaviour was a complete disaster all around, and I never want to see something like that happen in my lifetime.
You seem to forget that time when the chiefs of all three services went publicly to the then PM to complain about proposed defence cuts. Callaghan was the PM off the top of my head I can't remember the exact year.
I didn't know about that one - more recent than I thought then. Still very wrong!
In 1983 Labour polled more than 20,000 votes in 13 Welsh constituencies, (which was 34% of the total of 38 seats at the time). This year they failed to do so in any Welsh constituency, the highest being 19,966 in Cardiff South & Penarth.
Oh, the direction Labour is going with the help of Corbyn, momentum and their merry little band of helpers is going to be a disaster for both them and possibly the country.
Have you read in the article in this mornings Telegraph about the Momentum Organisation? If that bunch are allowed to follow through then they will destroy Labour as a social-democratic party of the centre(ish)-left. That will clearly be a disaster for many members of the Labour Party. I am not sure that it could ever be a disaster for the country.
How could a party that matched the dreams and intentions of Momentum ever achieve power to actually do any damage? Only I would suggest by the old Labour core vote remaining true and some, several million, voters switching to them from other parties. That is only going to happen if people willfully ignore what such a Party stood for. Neither event seems very likely, especially if, as in Scotland, there are other parties that can compete for the anti-Conservative vote.
Overall though Labour won 37.53% in Wales in 1983, not much different from the 36.9% it got in 2015 and polls show Labour has made its biggest gains outside London in Wales under Corbyn
I was focusing on votes rather than percentages. There comes a point where if your vote keep declining it eventually hits you where it matters even if you've got away with maintaining a particular percentage share for 30 years. It'll be interesting to see how Labour actually does in the Welsh Assembly election next year, as opposed to the polls.
In 1983 Labour polled more than 20,000 votes in 13 Welsh constituencies, (which was 34% of the total of 38 seats at the time). This year they failed to do so in any Welsh constituency, the highest being 19,966 in Cardiff South & Penarth.
Oh, the direction Labour is going with the help of Corbyn, momentum and their merry little band of helpers is going to be a disaster for both them and possibly the country.
Have you read in the article in this mornings Telegraph about the Momentum Organisation? If that bunch are allowed to follow through then they will destroy Labour as a social-democratic party of the centre(ish)-left. That will clearly be a disaster for many members of the Labour Party. I am not sure that it could ever be a disaster for the country.
How could a party that matched the dreams and intentions of Momentum ever achieve power to actually do any damage? Only I would suggest by the old Labour core vote remaining true and some, several million, voters switching to them from other parties. That is only going to happen if people willfully ignore what such a Party stood for. Neither event seems very likely, especially if, as in Scotland, there are other parties that can compete for the anti-Conservative vote.
Overall though Labour won 37.53% in Wales in 1983, not much different from the 36.9% it got in 2015 and polls show Labour has made its biggest gains outside London in Wales under Corbyn
I was focusing on votes rather than percentages. There comes a point where if your vote keep declining it eventually hits you where it matters even if you've got away with maintaining a particular percentage share for 30 years. It'll be interesting to see how Labour actually does in the Welsh Assembly election next year, as opposed to the polls.
As has been shown Labour is up in Wales
I think they could go down at the Welsh elections. Fancy a bet?
In 1983 Labour polled more than 20,000 votes in 13 Welsh constituencies, (which was 34% of the total of 38 seats at the time). This year they failed to do so in any Welsh constituency, the highest being 19,966 in Cardiff South & Penarth.
Oh, the direction Labour is going with the help of Corbyn, momentum and their merry little band of helpers is going to be a disaster for both them and possibly the country.
Have you read in the article in this mornings Telegraph about the Momentum Organisation? If that bunch are allowed to follow through then they will destroy Labour as a social-democratic party of the centre(ish)-left. That will clearly be a disaster for many members of the Labour Party. I am not sure that it could ever be a disaster for the country.
How could a party that matched the dreams and intentions of Momentum ever achieve power to actually do any damage? Only I would suggest by the old Labour core vote remaining true and some, several million, voters switching to them from other parties. That is only going to happen if people willfully ignore what such a Party stood for. Neither event seems very likely, especially if, as in Scotland, there are other parties that can compete for the anti-Conservative vote.
Overall though Labour won 37.53% in Wales in 1983, not much different from the 36.9% it got in 2015 and polls show Labour has made its biggest gains outside London in Wales under Corbyn
I was focusing on votes rather than percentages. There comes a point where if your vote keep declining it eventually hits you where it matters even if you've got away with maintaining a particular percentage share for 30 years. It'll be interesting to see how Labour actually does in the Welsh Assembly election next year, as opposed to the polls.
As has been shown Labour is up in Wales
I think they could go down at the Welsh elections. Fancy a bet?
Maybe a small one, Welsh Labour got 36.9% in Wales in 2011 on the list they are presently polling 42% so if you really think the polls are that far off and Labour will fall to 35% be my guest! On the constituency vote though Labour got 42% so are unchanged
The latest Wales poll at the end of September suggests that in Wales at least Corbyn has got a bounce. Labour is on 42% compared with 37% in May, the Tories on 26% compared to 27%, Plaid on 10% compared to 12%, the LDs on 5% compared to 7% and UKIP on 16%. So that suggests Corbyn has made gains from Plaid and the LDs with the Tories largely unchanged with about a 1% loss to UKIP http://www.itv.com/news/wales/story/2015-09-25/welsh-barometer-poll/
Those are figures from polling companies? When considering such things you may wish to remember Mr. Smithson saying on here that it was impossible, not unlikely but impossible, for the Conservatives to win the last GE unless they were ten point something ahead in the polls.
You may also wish to remember the two mutually exclusive trends picked up the polling companies in the run up to the GE (until they strangely enough coincided at a position where nobody could be that far adrift from any other company), and the poll that one company refused to publish because it didn't "feel right" - i.e. it didn't match the polling companies' group think, it just happened to be as it turned out accurate.
In short if you believe anything that the polling companies come up with is anything other than massaged figures, and figures massaged to suit someone's needs, then you need treatment.
As I have consistently pointed out more the final polls in 2015 showed the Tories ahead than Labour even if they got the margin wrong and these polls in Wales show a shift from Plaid and LD to Labour, NOT a shift from Tories to Labour so it seems entirely plausible to me. I expect Labour to get its best results in Wales and London next May and top the poll in both, even if it performs relatively poorly in the English council elections and faces a fight to stay ahead of the Tories in second place in Scotland
UKIP didn't contest the constituency section in 2011 and in the regional section got just 4.6%. They should get 10-15% this time in both sections and I can't help thinking most of that will come from Labour. I'm a bit sceptical of the polls after May's debacle.
In 1983 Labour polled more than 20,000 votes in 13 Welsh constituencies, (which was 34% of the total of 38 seats at the time). This year they failed to do so in any Welsh constituency, the highest being 19,966 in Cardiff South & Penarth.
Oh, the direction Labour is going with the help of Corbyn, momentum and their merry little band of helpers is going to be a disaster for both them and possibly the country.
Have you read in the article in this mornings Telegraph about the Momentum Organisation? If that bunch are allowed to follow through then they will destroy Labour as a social-democratic party of the centre(ish)-left. That will clearly be a disaster for many members of the Labour Party. I am not sure that it could ever be a disaster for the country.
How could a party that matched the dreams and intentions of Momentum ever achieve power to actually do any damage? Only I would suggest by the old Labour core vote remaining true and some, several million, voters switching to them from other parties. That is only going to happen if people willfully ignore what such a Party stood for. Neither event seems very likely, especially if, as in Scotland, there are other parties that can compete for the anti-Conservative vote.
Overall though Labour won 37.53% in Wales in 1983, not much different from the 36.9% it got in 2015 and polls show Labour has made its biggest gains outside London in Wales under Corbyn
I was focusing on votes rather than percentages. There comes a point where if your vote keep declining it eventually hits you where it matters even if you've got away with maintaining a particular percentage share for 30 years. It'll be interesting to see how Labour actually does in the Welsh Assembly election next year, as opposed to the polls.
As has been shown Labour is up in Wales
I think they could go down at the Welsh elections. Fancy a bet?
Maybe a small one, Welsh Labour got 36.9% in Wales in 2011 on the list they are presently polling 42% so if you really think the polls are that far off and Labour will fall to 35% be my guest! On the constituency vote though Labour got 42% so are unchanged
UKIP didn't contest the constituency section in 2011 and in the regional section got just 4.6%. They should get 10-15% this time in both sections and I can't help thinking most of that will come from Labour. I'm a bit sceptical of the polls after May's debacle.
Oh, the direction Labour is going with the help of Corbyn, momentum and their merry little band of helpers is going to be a disaster for both them and possibly the country.
How could a party that matched the dreams and intentions of Momentum ever achieve power to actually do any damage? Only I would sugge
Overall though Labour won 37.53% in Wales in 1983, not much different from the 36.9% it got in 2015 and polls show Labour has made its biggest gains outside London in Wales under Corbyn
I was focusing on votes rather than percentages. There comes a point where if your vote keep declining it eventually hits you where it matters even if you've got away with maintaining a particular percentage share for 30 years. It'll be interesting to see how Labour actually does in the Welsh Assembly election next year, as opposed to the polls.
As has been shown Labour is up in Wales
I think they could go down at the Welsh elections. Fancy a bet?
Maybe a small
The Latest poll from yougov at the end of September has Labour on 39% on the constituency vote and 34% on the regional list. The Tories on on 23% and 24%, Plaid on 18% in both and the LDs on 6% and 5%. UKIP are on 13% and 14%
In 2011 Labour got 42% and 36.9%, the Tories 25% and 22.5%, Plaid 19% and 17.9%, the LDs 10.6% and 8% and UKIP 4.6% which suggests that Labour will still comfortably win Wales next year but you are correct in that the biggest gainers are likely to be UKIP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_for_Wales_election,_2016
As I stated more of the final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour
Just been to a Remembrance Sunday wreath laying. What struck me was just how difficult it is going to be for for someone like Jeremy Corbyn to become Prime Minister. The bulk of the people there were ordinary working people, bound together by a commemoration of our past, the people lost, but also importantly the current people who serve in the armed forces. The dozens of local working mens institutions, clubs and societies all laying wreaths. All deeply proud of the sacrifices made in the past. The spontaneous applauding of the marching servicemen by the large crowds.
Labour could find themselves alienating this group of people, not by the actions of the wider party, but by the attitudes of the leader. It doesnt need to be of course, but he must tread carefully and be aware that the disdain and contempt of many things that people feel pride and affection for across the nation, may go down well in North London, but if he ever hopes to lead this nation, he needs to learn that that might involve leading it into doing things that he might wish he would never need to do.
Whilst all that may be accurate and worthy , I bet we are still talking about a small minority of the population overall, so does not mean he will not succeed , only in the eyes of the Tory majority on here.
Just been to a Remembrance Sunday wreath laying. What struck me was just how difficult it is going to be for for someone like Jeremy Corbyn to become Prime Minister. The bulk of the people there were ordinary working people, bound together by a commemoration of our past, the people lost, but also importantly the current people who serve in the armed forces. The dozens of local working mens institutions, clubs and societies all laying wreaths. All deeply proud of the sacrifices made in the past. The spontaneous applauding of the marching servicemen by the large crowds.
Labour could find themselves alienating this group of people, not by the actions of the wider party, but by the attitudes of the leader. It doesnt need to be of course, but he must tread carefully and be aware that the disdain and contempt of many things that people feel pride and affection for across the nation, may go down well in North London, but if he ever hopes to lead this nation, he needs to learn that that might involve leading it into doing things that he might wish he would never need to do.
Whilst all that may be accurate and worthy , I bet we are still talking about a small minority of the population overall, so does not mean he will not succeed , only in the eyes of the Tory majority on here.
The majority of the population will probably have worn a poppy at some stage over this fortnight and even Corbyn had to pay his respects at the Cenotaph
Comments
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34760567
Statistically, the chances of there being two bombs on any one plane are so remote as to be capable of being discounted completely.
The Latest poll from yougov at the end of September has Labour on 39% on the constituency vote and 34% on the regional list. The Tories on on 23% and 24%, Plaid on 18% in both and the LDs on 6% and 5%. UKIP are on 13% and 14%
In 2011 Labour got 42% and 36.9%, the Tories 25% and 22.5%, Plaid 19% and 17.9%, the LDs 10.6% and 8% and UKIP 4.6% which suggests that Labour will still comfortably win Wales next year but you are correct in that the biggest gainers are likely to be UKIP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_for_Wales_election,_2016
As I stated more of the final polls in May had the Tories ahead than Labour