I know the feeling. Still, this is what NickP and 250,000 other Labour supporters voted for, so you have to respect it. They are better off without us and we without them.
It's like watching a slow, five year car crash.
It's a total implosion. And NickP and his mates let the Tories off the hook completely as a result. But it feels wonderful and liberating and gets lots of likes on Facebook, so it's worth it. Sod the losers who actually could benefit from a moderate Labour government. It's all about the reTweets these days.
Then again, if you don't get involved, sit on your arse and fail to make your case, IMO you can't complain when things go the other way.
Mr. Tyndall, depends whether a Scotsman considers himself British or not.
I think it's possible to want the UK to leave the EU, but not Scotland the UK. What utterly baffles me is the reverse, wanting Scotland to leave the UK but be in the EU (especially when you consider longevity of states and the direction of travel, power from the UK to Scotland, and from the UK to the EU).
Agreed. I was happy for the Scots to go their own way. In the end, however, it sounded to me like the SNP wanted the Pound to become like the Euro. Had Scotland voted for independence I'd have expected all English/Welsh/NI politicians to come together to tell them to get stuffed.
Hahaha, I do love the utter lunacy of the Loyalist currency deniers.
1. There is no mechanism or means by which Scotland could have been prevented from using the Pound as its currency post Independence.
2. The Pound is a shared asset of the United Kingdom which would simply cease to exist. The rUK could CLAIM to be the Continuing State rather than one of two Successor States. Of course then it is strictly liable for all the National Debt and all the accrued Pension Debt.
It's the most fallacious and ludicrous argument that the Loyalists have but it seems to be the one they scream the loudest. No wonder they went from 75:25 to 55:45. And now to something near 51:49.
Prediction in todays DT that house prices will rise by average of 22% by 2020 due to pent up demand and shortage. With core inflation at 1 or 2% that is a hell of a lot.
Fantastic news for all those folk who are about to get a government subsidy to buy their housing association accommodation. And for the buy to let landlords they'll then sell on to.
You don't think they might want to stay in their homes?
I know the feeling. Still, this is what NickP and 250,000 other Labour supporters voted for, so you have to respect it. They are better off without us and we without them.
It's like watching a slow, five year car crash.
It's a total implosion. And NickP and his mates let the Tories off the hook completely as a result. But it feels wonderful and liberating and gets lots of likes on Facebook, so it's worth it. Sod the losers who actually could benefit from a moderate Labour government. It's all about the reTweets these days.
I still think Corbyn will be gone before long if Labour loses the London mayoralty, loses control of the Welsh Assembly, and gets massacred again in Scotland. Enough will be enough in those circumstances,
Mr. Eye, I didn't hear it, though not every message is broadcast (drivers sometimes pepper their messages with strong swearing deliberately to avoid the messages being broadcast).
After the race, Hamilton maintained it was the wrong call. Of course, that could be more mind games to screw with Rosberg.
Mr. Tyndall, depends whether a Scotsman considers himself British or not.
I think it's possible to want the UK to leave the EU, but not Scotland the UK. What utterly baffles me is the reverse, wanting Scotland to leave the UK but be in the EU (especially when you consider longevity of states and the direction of travel, power from the UK to Scotland, and from the UK to the EU).
It's not too difficult to understand the nationalist thinking: an independent Scotland seceding from the UK, and becoming a full-blown member of the EU, would be the quickest way to establish itself as a voice on the international scene and carve outlet a distinct foreign policy from rUK. The fact it would have little influence and that noone would really listen to it - in practice it would just shout loudly in support of the prevailing EU view - is immaterial: it would give the new nation state a symbolic platform.
There's a risk that an independent Scotland outside the EU would simply be ignored.
Tom Harris was one of the most down-to-earth and clear-sighted Labour MPs between 2001 and 2015. A pretty bad loss for Labour if he's indeed left the party.
The Momentum boot boys will be after him.
This programmes worth listening to, for anyone that missed it last night.
It's just a very quiet morning on here. 3 posts in 6 hours.
Well personally I am finding the EU threads almost unbearable and we seem to be having a lot of them of late. Its worse than trying to debate with Nats.
Agree with that entirely. If we are in for 18 months of yesterday's threads then it will make the Scotttish referendum seem like a civilised discussion at a WI coffee morning. Talking about who said what in some escalating circular whataboutery takes the discussion nowhere.
Both sides of the debate need to be positive as - unlike Scotland - there's a large undecided pool of voters waiting to be persuaded.
I'd also agree with that. I'm already bored and the campaign hasn't even formally kicked off yet That said I've already decided to vote leave and it is nothing to do with Norway or the EEA.
In my view the EU is an immoral organisation run by an out of touch clique who care more about their precious project than they do about ordinary European citizens. I don't agree with Syriza's solutions but the way the Greeks have been treated is absolutely appalling.
In my view, if we vote remain a future left wing government will see this as the green light to give away more powers. Conversely if we vote to leave I'm not entirely convinced we actually will. It wouldn't surprise me if the EU came up with some special deal to get us to stay after all (see what happened with Ireland's 2 referendums on one of the treaties)
Quite why some Scots want independence whilst wanting to join the EU remains a mystery.
It's a mystery to me why BOOers rail against UK loss of control to the EU while thinking Scotland should just suck up a far greater sovereignty deficit within the UK. Isn't the world a wonderfully mysterious place?
That doesn't explain the logic of wanting to recover sovereignty and then give it away again.
Piece by piece the euro-superstate will come into being because it has to in order to cope with the variety of pressures that are, or will be, exerted from banking to asylum seeking to tax and trade policy.
It can only be a matter of time before full-blown common welfare policy is suggested as an answer to free movement.
There's nothing confusing about it, it's only the rabid xenophobes who see the EU as some occupational power imposing its will with individual governments holding no recourse.
I know the feeling. Still, this is what NickP and 250,000 other Labour supporters voted for, so you have to respect it. They are better off without us and we without them.
It's like watching a slow, five year car crash.
It's a total implosion. And NickP and his mates let the Tories off the hook completely as a result. But it feels wonderful and liberating and gets lots of likes on Facebook, so it's worth it. Sod the losers who actually could benefit from a moderate Labour government. It's all about the reTweets these days.
btl CiF-ers have never felt so empowered and good about life.
Comments
1. There is no mechanism or means by which Scotland could have been prevented from using the Pound as its currency post Independence.
2. The Pound is a shared asset of the United Kingdom which would simply cease to exist. The rUK could CLAIM to be the Continuing State rather than one of two Successor States. Of course then it is strictly liable for all the National Debt and all the accrued Pension Debt.
It's the most fallacious and ludicrous argument that the Loyalists have but it seems to be the one they scream the loudest. No wonder they went from 75:25 to 55:45. And now to something near 51:49.
Tick Tock.
New Thread New Thread
There's a risk that an independent Scotland outside the EU would simply be ignored.
This programmes worth listening to, for anyone that missed it last night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06nr8vp
In my view the EU is an immoral organisation run by an out of touch clique who care more about their precious project than they do about ordinary European citizens. I don't agree with Syriza's solutions but the way the Greeks have been treated is absolutely appalling.
In my view, if we vote remain a future left wing government will see this as the green light to give away more powers. Conversely if we vote to leave I'm not entirely convinced we actually will. It wouldn't surprise me if the EU came up with some special deal to get us to stay after all (see what happened with Ireland's 2 referendums on one of the treaties)