The best thing about FPTP is that it gives voters an opportunity to clear out an entire political cabal in one go, whereas with PR you can often have the same tired old faces turning up in coalitions for years on end with seemingly no way to get rid of them.
A number of highly Europhile Liberal Democrats still manage to get into the European Parliament, despite their party getting massacred in the vote share. That is a clear lesson against PR.
Anyone seen Joe Stilgoe in concert? or listened to his music?. Son of Richard Stilgoe he is a very talented musician and magic if you like his style . I saw him last week and it was 10/10 AFAIWC
Anyone wanting the mirror of pb should look on twitter at #taxcredits
Why? The Govt are clearly losing the argument on tax credits. They are struggling to put up any people of substance who can communicate it in a persuasive manner. Instead we have the idle threat of MAD for the Lords. Something that Osborne is clearly leading.
Leader of the Opposition is Baroness Smith who was Member of Parliament (MP) for Basildon from 1997 until losing her seat to the Conservatives at the 2010 General Election. This reject is leading the Labour Lords.
Don't interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake. If the tax credit cuts are truly as evil as the opposition are claiming, blocking them would be a foolish move. Evil tax credits inflicting misery could zap conservative voters away...
If you are poor enough, at one point in time, you get a house with below market rent for life, and your kids likely get it after you too.
JEO - agree with the rest of what you say - but on this particular point I know it's not necessarily the case. I know of a family living with a grandparent in their council house who were forced to leave when the grandparent died. That said, both parents work full time so that might have contributed to the council's lack of compassion. My parents bought their council house and I am grateful that they did.
Mr. 565, it's not legitimate to pronounce yourself a self-employed musician (or writer...) then hold out your hand and demand taxpayers' money is given to you.
I kind of agree - but this is what us lefties have been arguing to the Tories for years. The "real" jobs market has NEVER recovered from the government slashing the number of public-sector jobs, and the only reason the unemployment statistics have recovered on paper is because of the huge spike in self-employed people who are topped up by tax credits.
Self-employed people, while less well-paid than employees, are happier on average in their work than employed people and the RSA believes that most of the recent surge in self-employment happened because people preferred being their own boss rather than as a way to avoid unemployment:
If you believe that you are not the full shilling. It gets them more than they would on JSA as they can get more benefits, so anyone would change to self employed if they cannot get a job. Tories love it as they can claim UK is booming.
I know many in my acquaintance who have gone self employed to escape the drudgery of being a wage slave. It's been a choice they've made, not a matter of having to, usually leaving the public sector's stairway to hell, running as fast as they could with their pay offs and pensions.
Among the young people I meet, there is a large segment that want to work for themselves - give it a go etc. In IT this is very popular - start as a 1 person contractor and build from there. Outside IT, I see quite a few of people exiting traditional salaried employment to try and start their own business.
The attitude behind all of this is that permanent employment is as about as risky as going for it, while starting a business is the only practical way to make a big jump up the ladder.
The monarchy is far from "extremely popular". Retention is supported by around 60% but that benefits greatly from small c conservative attitudes not to change things and from the utter lack of proper national debate.
For the SNP it is simply not a fight worth considering. Independence is the goal, anything else can wait. I have little doubt that the monarchy has less than 20 years left in Scotland.
LOL! Supported by a mere 60%, and considered such a deal-breaker that the SNP - which historically has strongly opposed the monarchy - had to abandon their position.
And that's curmudgeonly Scotland. In English marginals, which are rather more relevant to Labour's electoral prospects, and especially amongst swing voters in English marginals, Corbyn's anti-monarchy stance will go down like IDS in the Gorbals.
The monarchy is far from "extremely popular". Retention is supported by around 60% but that benefits greatly from small c conservative attitudes not to change things and from the utter lack of proper national debate.
For the SNP it is simply not a fight worth considering. Independence is the goal, anything else can wait. I have little doubt that the monarchy has less than 20 years left in Scotland.
LOL! Supported by a mere 60%, and considered such a deal-breaker that the SNP - which historically has strongly opposed the monarchy - had to abandon their position.
And that's curmudgeonly Scotland. In English marginals, which are rather more relevant to Labour's electoral prospects, and especially amongst swing voters in English marginals, Corbyn's anti-monarchy stance will go down like IDS in the Gorbals.
More wildly incorrect claims. The SNP have never had an Abolition policy.
I have no interest in English marginals, the UK will be dissolved long before Labour ever becomes electable again.
More wildly incorrect claims. The SNP have never had an Abolition policy.
I have no interest in English marginals, the UK will be dissolved long before Labour ever becomes electable again.
Defying a warning by their leader, Alex Salmond, delegates voted by a clear majority to hold a referendum on whether or not to retain the Monarch as head of state for Scotland within the first term of an independent parliament.
But I think we agree. Both in Scotland, and even more in England, the monarchy is popular, and therefore Corbyn's anti-monarchy stance is a negative for Labour.
The monarchy is far from "extremely popular". Retention is supported by around 60% but that benefits greatly from small c conservative attitudes not to change things and from the utter lack of proper national debate.
For the SNP it is simply not a fight worth considering. Independence is the goal, anything else can wait. I have little doubt that the monarchy has less than 20 years left in Scotland.
LOL! Supported by a mere 60%, and considered such a deal-breaker that the SNP - which historically has strongly opposed the monarchy - had to abandon their position.
And that's curmudgeonly Scotland. In English marginals, which are rather more relevant to Labour's electoral prospects, and especially amongst swing voters in English marginals, Corbyn's anti-monarchy stance will go down like IDS in the Gorbals.
More wildly incorrect claims. The SNP have never had an Abolition policy.
I have no interest in English marginals, the UK will be dissolved long before Labour ever becomes electable again.
The monarchy is far from "extremely popular". Retention is supported by around 60% but that benefits greatly from small c conservative attitudes not to change things and from the utter lack of proper national debate.
For the SNP it is simply not a fight worth considering. Independence is the goal, anything else can wait. I have little doubt that the monarchy has less than 20 years left in Scotland.
LOL! Supported by a mere 60%, and considered such a deal-breaker that the SNP - which historically has strongly opposed the monarchy - had to abandon their position.
And that's curmudgeonly Scotland. In English marginals, which are rather more relevant to Labour's electoral prospects, and especially amongst swing voters in English marginals, Corbyn's anti-monarchy stance will go down like IDS in the Gorbals.
More wildly incorrect claims. The SNP have never had an Abolition policy.
I have no interest in English marginals, the UK will be dissolved long before Labour ever becomes electable again.
The Canadian Liberals have just won most seats in Quebec at a general election for the first time in 35 years. During most of that time nationalists dominated Quebec politics yet still lost two independence referendums
Anyone wanting the mirror of pb should look on twitter at #taxcredits
Why? The Govt are clearly losing the argument on tax credits. They are struggling to put up any people of substance who can communicate it in a persuasive manner. Instead we have the idle threat of MAD for the Lords. Something that Osborne is clearly leading.
They lost the argument on the 'bedroom tax' too, didn't they?
More wildly incorrect claims. The SNP have never had an Abolition policy.
I have no interest in English marginals, the UK will be dissolved long before Labour ever becomes electable again.
Defying a warning by their leader, Alex Salmond, delegates voted by a clear majority to hold a referendum on whether or not to retain the Monarch as head of state for Scotland within the first term of an independent parliament.
But I think we agree. Both in Scotland, and even more in England, the monarchy is popular, and therefore Corbyn's anti-monarchy stance is a negative for Labour.
You seem obsessed with the bizarre belief that support for retention in some way indicated popularity. I understand your psychological need to justify your willingness to be a subservient serf leads you to find any excuse you can to justify your lack of self esteem.
But these straws you're gasping keep falling apart in your forelock tugging hand.
The best thing about FPTP is that it gives voters an opportunity to clear out an entire political cabal in one go, whereas with PR you can often have the same tired old faces turning up in coalitions for years on end with seemingly no way to get rid of them.
A number of highly Europhile Liberal Democrats still manage to get into the European Parliament, despite their party getting massacred in the vote share. That is a clear lesson against PR.
You seem obsessed with the bizarre belief that support for retention in some way indicated popularity. I understand your psychological need to justify your willingness to be a subservient serf leads you to find any excuse you can to justify your lack of self esteem.
But these straws you're gasping keep falling apart in your forelock tugging hand.
LOL! You are on good form today.
My self esteem is in pretty good nick, actually. So much so that I am very capable of distinguishing between my views on the monarchy, and the typical voter's view, and also very capable of seeing the funny side in Nats taking offence even when they agree with what you say.
Police say they have arrested a 15 year old in Ireland in regard to the cyber attack on Talk Talk.
Gosh .....15? Ireland? What the?
Will he get a really, really poor A-Team rip off on CBS as well?
Well, As always ...... if that does turn out to be correct, they should give him a job in the Talk Talk security division rather than arrest him. I am presuming they have a security division of course.
Police say they have arrested a 15 year old in Ireland in regard to the cyber attack on Talk Talk.
Gosh .....15? Ireland? What the?
Will he get a really, really poor A-Team rip off on CBS as well?
Well, As always ...... if that does turn out to be correct, they should give him a job in the Talk Talk security division rather than arrest him. I am presuming they have a security division of course.
Don't interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake. If the tax credit cuts are truly as evil as the opposition are claiming, blocking them would be a foolish move. Evil tax credits inflicting misery could zap conservative voters away...
Politics isn't a game...it's real life. These cuts will result in families losing their homes
Don't interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake. If the tax credit cuts are truly as evil as the opposition are claiming, blocking them would be a foolish move. Evil tax credits inflicting misery could zap conservative voters away...
Politics isn't a game...it's real life. These cuts will result in families losing their homes
Don't interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake. If the tax credit cuts are truly as evil as the opposition are claiming, blocking them would be a foolish move. Evil tax credits inflicting misery could zap conservative voters away...
Politics isn't a game...it's real life. These cuts will result in families losing their homes
Yes I find it a bt crap when people say things like that.. how can it be worth inflicting pain (if you think what the govt are doing is that) just to score a political point
Surely it would be morally better to be out of power but exerting influence than to exert none in the hope things get so bad you get power?
I think government support of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and now Turkey needs to be reassessed. They are the primary agitators in the region and supply arms and cash to Islamist groups. As for the article, it's more likely that the BBC online reporter is just clueless about the situation on the ground and swallows up any propaganda from the Saudis as being 100% true without any research rather than knowingly posting incorrect statements such as supplying the "Army of Conquest" but no Al-Nusra, which as stated in the article is an impossibility.
I think government support of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and now Turkey needs to be reassessed. They are the primary agitators in the region and supply arms and cash to Islamist groups. As for the article, it's more likely that the BBC online reporter is just clueless about the situation on the ground and swallows up any propaganda from the Saudis as being 100% true without any research rather than knowingly posting incorrect statements such as supplying the "Army of Conquest" but no Al-Nusra, which as stated in the article is an impossibility.
BUT NOTE: The above numbers include 42 of the 45 Peers Cameron added last month.
But only 12 of these have been formally introduced so far - so the other 33 cannot yet vote.
So rough numbers eligible to vote today are:
Con 233 Lab 206 LD 102 Crossbench 176
I reckon those voting are:
140 Con 130 Lab 80 Xbench etc 60 LD
This next motion will depend on how the xbench and bishops split.
Assuming xbench/bishops split 60/20 for the government, the result will be 210 Content, 200 Not Content. Extremely tight but a government loss I think.
Breakdown of Mori poll by region shows Tories ahead in the Midlands and South, Labour the North and London and the SNP Scotland. Labour leads by 11% in London and 17% in the North, the Tories 8% in the Midlands (above their national vote lead of 4%) suggesting Tories are doing best in the marginals, Labour their safe seats. https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/oct2015web.pdf
BUT NOTE: The above numbers include 42 of the 45 Peers Cameron added last month.
But only 12 of these have been formally introduced so far - so the other 33 cannot yet vote.
So rough numbers eligible to vote today are:
Con 233 Lab 206 LD 102 Crossbench 176
I reckon those voting are:
140 Con 130 Lab 80 Xbench etc 60 LD
This next motion will depend on how the xbench and bishops split.
Assuming xbench/bishops split 60/20 for the government, the result will be 210 Content, 200 Not Content. Extremely tight but a win for Labour I think. If not, the 3rd delaying amendment will be carried.
We'll see in a few minutes.
But your numbers imply lots of Lab voted with the Govt on the first vote. I doubt that.
Breakdown of Mori poll by region shows Tories ahead in the Midlands and South, Labour the North and London and the SNP Scotland. Labour leads by 11% in London and 17% in the North, the Tories 8% in the Midlands (above their national vote lead of 4%) suggesting Tories are doing best in the marginals, Labour their safe seats. https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/oct2015web.pdf
Think most would agree that is a fair assessment of the present political climate - though the Tories pushing Labour in Scotland
BUT NOTE: The above numbers include 42 of the 45 Peers Cameron added last month.
But only 12 of these have been formally introduced so far - so the other 33 cannot yet vote.
So rough numbers eligible to vote today are:
Con 233 Lab 206 LD 102 Crossbench 176
I reckon those voting are:
140 Con 130 Lab 80 Xbench etc 60 LD
This next motion will depend on how the xbench and bishops split.
Assuming xbench/bishops split 60/20 for the government, the result will be 210 Content, 200 Not Content. Extremely tight but a win for Labour I think. If not, the 3rd delaying amendment will be carried.
We'll see in a few minutes.
But your numbers imply lots of Lab voted with the Govt on the first vote. I doubt that.
I expect approx 200 Con and 170 Lab are present
You're right. I'm ignoring abstentions. Anyway we'll see in a moment.
Yes. If it wasn't, then they wouldn't be able to do it. The government has plenty of options, the most obvious being to reschedule the change in a Budget.
I don't like the notion that the Lords isn't allowed an opinion. It is perfectly entitle to have one and to enforce it within the law. If the Commons don't like it then Lords reform is always an option but to have in practice whilst keeping a zombie Lords is the worst of all worlds.
I watched a large part of the Lords debate. The quality of the debate was very high - the summing-up for the Govt by Earl Howe was low key but really on the ball. My understanding is that Lady Meacher's amendment is to wait until the debate on the Commons on Thursday where an all-party motion ( including 8 Conservatives) will be discussed.
Breakdown of Mori poll by region shows Tories ahead in the Midlands and South, Labour the North and London and the SNP Scotland. Labour leads by 11% in London and 17% in the North, the Tories 8% in the Midlands (above their national vote lead of 4%) suggesting Tories are doing best in the marginals, Labour their safe seats. https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/oct2015web.pdf
Think most would agree that is a fair assessment of the present political climate - though the Tories pushing Labour in Scotland
Indeed, yes the biggest gainers in Scotland since the election seem to be the Tories
Breakdown of Mori poll by region shows Tories ahead in the Midlands and South, Labour the North and London and the SNP Scotland. Labour leads by 11% in London and 17% in the North, the Tories 8% in the Midlands (above their national vote lead of 4%) suggesting Tories are doing best in the marginals, Labour their safe seats. https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/oct2015web.pdf
Think most would agree that is a fair assessment of the present political climate - though the Tories pushing Labour in Scotland
Indeed, yes the biggest gainers in Scotland since the election seem to be the Tories
I think the Govt will have to put whatever they decide to do in Welfare Bill / Finance Bill - they can't allow any more messing around in the Lords like this.
Breakdown of Mori poll by region shows Tories ahead in the Midlands and South, Labour the North and London and the SNP Scotland. Labour leads by 11% in London and 17% in the North, the Tories 8% in the Midlands (above their national vote lead of 4%) suggesting Tories are doing best in the marginals, Labour their safe seats. https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/oct2015web.pdf
Think most would agree that is a fair assessment of the present political climate - though the Tories pushing Labour in Scotland
Indeed, yes the biggest gainers in Scotland since the election seem to be the Tories
Scottish Tory Surge?!
Ruth Davidson does seem to be making an impact yes
Comments
Anyone seen Joe Stilgoe in concert? or listened to his music?. Son of Richard Stilgoe he is a very talented musician and magic if you like his style . I saw him last week and it was 10/10 AFAIWC
http://www.joestilgoe.com/
The self entitlement of the lib dem peers, who saw their party destroyed at the last election, is something to behold.
One is, admittedly, a number, but quite a low one.
This reject is leading the Labour Lords.
The attitude behind all of this is that permanent employment is as about as risky as going for it, while starting a business is the only practical way to make a big jump up the ladder.
And that's curmudgeonly Scotland. In English marginals, which are rather more relevant to Labour's electoral prospects, and especially amongst swing voters in English marginals, Corbyn's anti-monarchy stance will go down like IDS in the Gorbals.
I have no interest in English marginals, the UK will be dissolved long before Labour ever becomes electable again.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/snp-conference-snp-prepare-ground-for-dropping-the-queen-1241179.html
But I think we agree. Both in Scotland, and even more in England, the monarchy is popular, and therefore Corbyn's anti-monarchy stance is a negative for Labour.
https://theintercept.com/2015/10/26/bbc-protects-uks-close-ally-saudi-arabia-with-incredibly-dishonest-and-biased-editing/
Police say they have arrested a 15 year old in Ireland in regard to the cyber attack on Talk Talk.
Gosh .....15? Ireland? What the?
But these straws you're gasping keep falling apart in your forelock tugging hand.
My self esteem is in pretty good nick, actually. So much so that I am very capable of distinguishing between my views on the monarchy, and the typical voter's view, and also very capable of seeing the funny side in Nats taking offence even when they agree with what you say.
if that does turn out to be correct, they should give him a job in the Talk Talk security division rather than arrest him. I am presuming they have a security division of course.
Result in approx 15 mins.
Likelihood is a few Peers go home after the first vote - most likely Crossbenchers - that could harm the Government's chances on the Lab motion.
Yes I find it a bt crap when people say things like that.. how can it be worth inflicting pain (if you think what the govt are doing is that) just to score a political point
Surely it would be morally better to be out of power but exerting influence than to exert none in the hope things get so bad you get power?
Result in 15 mins.
And how many Labour/LD/crossbench
If everyone votes the same way this time except for Lab Peers voting for it, Govt will win - there won't be 211 Lab Peers to add to that side.
But risk is if any Crossbenchers switch sides (plus small number may go home early from all parties).
Con 249
Lab 213
LD 112
Crossbench 176
BUT NOTE: The above numbers include 42 of the 45 Peers Cameron added last month.
But only 12 of these have been formally introduced so far - so the other 33 cannot yet vote.
So rough numbers eligible to vote today are:
Con 233
Lab 206
LD 102
Crossbench 176
I take off in 10.
May the luck of @RobD be with me...
NOTE: It's very rare for more than about 70 Crossbenchers to vote (and Bishops normally less than 5).
But could be more tonight.
That 310 for the Govt looks a very, very high turnout on the first vote - probably 200 to 210 Con Peers - so implies 100 others.
140 Con
130 Lab
80 Xbench etc
60 LD
This next motion will depend on how the xbench and bishops split.
Assuming xbench/bishops split 60/20 for the government, the result will be 210 Content, 200 Not Content. Extremely tight but a government loss I think.
We'll see in a few minutes.
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/oct2015web.pdf
I expect approx 200 Con and 170 Lab are present
I expect Govt loss again as per Meacher motion.
Lab 180
LD 80
Others 47
Total 307
Con 200
Others 77
Total 277
Govt could have won but needed even higher % of Crossbench.
I don't like the notion that the Lords isn't allowed an opinion. It is perfectly entitle to have one and to enforce it within the law. If the Commons don't like it then Lords reform is always an option but to have in practice whilst keeping a zombie Lords is the worst of all worlds.
Can they really get that?
Always the risk a few drift home as well!
Govt LOSES 289 to 272.
Lucky George. Let off the hook by the HoL.