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  • Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    Surely 50% of people breeding with their cousins would result in Hapsburgs levels of genetic degradation fairly quickly? Does this explain some of the issues around the old north west frontier?
    That would be my interpretation too.

    Of course, from a purely cynical point of view, I can't help notice that a great many of the countries with high levels of cousin marriage (not Canada) are ones which - to put it simply - don't like us very much. Maybe we should just let them get on which their cousin love.
    It causes a lot of issues for the NHS too apparently, with diseases caused by cousin marriage within certain communities.
    Go to any pa3ds clinic in Bradford or Birmingham to see the consequences.

    One of the astonishing things is that the rate of cousin marriage is actually higher in more recent generations. A crackdown on arranged marriages may help resore some sense.
  • Danny565 said:

    notme said:

    How would this go down from an mp who wasnt labour??

    https://twitter.com/HelenGoodmanMP/status/653303286062284800

    Equally, had this come from a Tory MP, you would be (rightly) bemoaning any leftie criticism of it as "political correctness gone mad".

    It's a valid point: the UK does have a better quality of life than China, which just shows why the Chinese approach of pursuing immaculate economic statistics at the expense of everything else is not the road we as a country should want to go down, despite Hunt's comment.
    If she'd wanted to have made a geuine point, she wouldn't have said it the way she did.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.

    He said that British people didn't work hard enough, and should be more like the Chinese.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.
    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    Agree with your completely about Forever. IIRC it stabilised about a 1.4 rating which when you look at what ABC have in the 10pm slot this year - Castle at 1.2 on Monday and Nashville at 1.1 on Wednesday and a pretty negative outlook on Wicked City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.

    Seeing as she doesn't drink milk and its fir staff or guests I'd've thought it fair enough to claim it as an expense
  • What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.

    Jeremy Hunt urges Britons to 'work harder LIKE CHINESE’ in latest Tory tax credits row

    THE Conservatives have become embroiled in a row over tax credits after a leading Cabinet minister urged Britons to graft harder like workers in China and America.

    http://bit.ly/1VMs5u7
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573
    Danny565 said:

    What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.

    He said that British people didn't work hard enough, and should be more like the Chinese.
    Which says nothing about how good China is as a place to live/work, just that their people are industrious.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.

    It's not her milk, it's milk for the constituency office and is an expected expense approved by parliament.
  • SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    What you say is true but this is very dangerous ground It's like eugenics in reverse but with the same ethical issues. What can you do about it? Darwin of course latterly struggled with this issue, being married to a very devout cousin.
    It's not hard. You just ban cousin marriage, on the entirely truthful grounds that it is seriously dysgenic, and produces too many horribly damaged children. We already ban brother-sister marriages for this reason, or uncle-niece marriages.

    Just hurry up and do it. The only thing that holds us back is, yet again, a ludicrous fear of offending Muslims.
    Surely banning 1st cousin marriages is not difficult... I
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,714
    edited October 2015

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    Agree with your completely about Forever. IIRC it stabilised about a 1.4 rating which when you look at what ABC have in the 10pm slot this year - Castle at 1.2 on Monday and Nashville at 1.1 on Wednesday and a pretty negative outlook on Wicked City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    The Lady Wifi adores Grey's Anatomy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995
    edited October 2015
    Crosby feared Cameron only wanted to 'frolic' as PM. At the launch of the Edstone, Ed was driven around Hastings in circles as the Green candidate had occupied the site with a horse and cart. After he forgot to mention the deficit in his conference speech he walked around his hotel suite muttering 'f***, f***. f***'. The bacon sandwich incident came about because he is 'not a morning person' and grumpy when he wakes up
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/article1618116.ece
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.

    He said that British people didn't work hard enough, and should be more like the Chinese.
    Which says nothing about how good China is as a place to live/work, just that their people are industrious.
    But, arguably, the fact they run themselves into the ground work-wise contributes to a lower quality of life.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    I went to a wedding a year or two ago of a family friend to his French second cousin, they have just had a baby who seems to be doing well
    This is hardly evidential.
    Nor does it show cousins weddings are doomed
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    What you say is true but this is very dangerous ground It's like eugenics in reverse but with the same ethical issues. What can you do about it? Darwin of course latterly struggled with this issue, being married to a very devout cousin.
    It's not hard. You just ban cousin marriage, on the entirely truthful grounds that it is seriously dysgenic, and produces too many horribly damaged children. We already ban brother-sister marriages for this reason, or uncle-niece marriages.

    Just hurry up and do it. The only thing that holds us back is, yet again, a ludicrous fear of offending Muslims.
    It's the fear you speak of that should be called 'islamophobia'... It results in genuine illness and neglect unlike the accepted term which is often justified concern
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,963
    edited October 2015
    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    I'm midway between your two positions - I think it has real potential, and after some slower stuff mid way through it picked up again, but it felt a bit too clunky and rushed for my tastes, missed out on some good set up. I think it could be good, but at the moment it's just average. I feel like the universe needs a bit more fleshing out, at the moment it was a bit lifeless - I contrast it with Farscape in that sense.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    I went to a wedding a year or two ago of a family friend to his French second cousin, they have just had a baby who seems to be doing well
    This is hardly evidential.
    Nor does it show cousins weddings are doomed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Biological_aspects seems to give a pretty good overview.

    One off cousin marriages, fine, more than one, not so much...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226

    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    Surely 50% of people breeding with their cousins would result in Hapsburgs levels of genetic degradation fairly quickly? Does this explain some of the issues around the old north west frontier?
    That would be my interpretation too.

    Of course, from a purely cynical point of view, I can't help notice that a great many of the countries with high levels of cousin marriage (not Canada) are ones which - to put it simply - don't like us very much. Maybe we should just let them get on which their cousin love.
    It causes a lot of issues for the NHS too apparently, with diseases caused by cousin marriage within certain communities.
    It's funny though: the Middle East and North Africa are largely Islamic, and have high levels of cousin marriage.

    But Canada has only half the population (proportionately) of Muslims we do, and has 10x the level of cousin marriage. Portugal, with only 0.6% Muslims, also has 10-19% of marriages to cousins.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    @HYUFD

    I just noticed that CNBC has way higher polling criteria for their GOP debate 2 weeks from now.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/30/cnbc-republican-debate-criteria.html

    "recognized national polls conducted by: NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, CNN and Bloomberg, released between September 17, 2015 and October 21, 2015.

    To appear in the 8pm debate a candidate must have an average of 3% among these polls. The polls will be averaged and will be rounded up to 3% for any candidate with a standing of 2.5% or higher."

    Paul, Christie and Huckabee might not make it.
    If so then it will be a debate of "just" 7 candidates, way smaller than the bloated CNN one with 11.
    The candidates will have more airtime and it will be easier for them since they won't have to wait long for their turn to speak.

    Also if those 3 don't make it they might drop out, Paul and Huckabee dropping will favour Carson and Cruz, Christie dropping will favour one of the establishment ones. But they are polling very low, just 7-8% all 3 of them.

    Goodnight.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2015
    Dair said:

    Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.

    It's not her milk, it's milk for the constituency office and is an expected expense approved by parliament.
    Yep, that's what ordinary folks do for their tea at work. They stick it on someone else's expense bill. Or maybe not.

    It seems like a miserly, parasite's justification.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098


    The witcher 3 just ramps everything up- the stories, the graphics, the world. Honestly, hands down, the best game I've ever played. Part of me would say just forget the witcher 2 and jump right into 3, they are just not comparable in terms of quality.

    I upgraded to a new PC a few months ago and now I'm not dashing up to Broxtowe every weekend I've been enjoying catching up with games. I'm through most of the satisfying Pillars of Eternity (Baldur's Gate tripled with knobs on), and was thinking of working my way through the Witcher series next. Would you recommend skipping installment 1 and maybe 2, then?

    In general I like strategy and RPG games with lots of decisions and conversations, and dislike games dependent on fast fingers or tiresome "where is the crowbar hidden?" puzzles. I used to play a lot of Hearts of Iron so I like Paradox's style too. Another candidate is the new Civ expansion. Advice welcome!

    Nick, Crusader Kings 2 an Europa Universalis IV should both be right up your street., especially the first though be prepared for a steep learning curve (not the game play but the decision effects) and to wave farewell to sleep.

    Not sure the implication that Europa Universalis (hours played: thousands) does not have a steep learning curve can be quite right... Paradox's finest in my opinion although I know some big fans of Crusader Kings II.
    Sorry, Mr. Rabbit, some loose wording perhaps on my part. I certainly meant no offence to the cracking game Europa Universalis, but it is perhaps a little more intuitive for an experienced gamer to play as compared to the much more original game play of Crusader Kings. Both of them have caused me more than a few nights lost sleep.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It had too many Red Dwarf moments for me, the sets were hilarious. The plot more so.
    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    I'm midway between your two positions - I think it has real potential, and after some slower stuff mid way through it picked up again, but it felt a bit too clunky and rushed for my tastes, missed out on some good set up. I think it could be good, but at the moment it's just average.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    notme said:

    Tim Farron ✔ @timfarron
    Terrible tweet from @HelenGoodmanMP. Never attack politicians families. I hope she apologises.Clearly she missed the 'Kinder Politics' memo

    Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk
    Holy shit https://twitter.com/HelenGoodmanMP/status/653303286062284800

    Labour have now reached Peak Fuckwittery.

    Oh no, I think they have capacity to surpass themselves based on evidence so far.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JEO said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    Surely 50% of people breeding with their cousins would result in Hapsburgs levels of genetic degradation fairly quickly? Does this explain some of the issues around the old north west frontier?
    That would be my interpretation too.

    Of course, from a purely cynical point of view, I can't help notice that a great many of the countries with high levels of cousin marriage (not Canada) are ones which - to put it simply - don't like us very much. Maybe we should just let them get on which their cousin love.
    It causes a lot of issues for the NHS too apparently, with diseases caused by cousin marriage within certain communities.
    It's funny though: the Middle East and North Africa are largely Islamic, and have high levels of cousin marriage.

    But Canada has only half the population (proportionately) of Muslims we do, and has 10x the level of cousin marriage. Portugal, with only 0.6% Muslims, also has 10-19% of marriages to cousins.
    It does make me a little sceptical of the figures on that map.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    I went to a wedding a year or two ago of a family friend to his French second cousin, they have just had a baby who seems to be doing well
    This is hardly evidential.
    Nor does it show cousins weddings are doomed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Biological_aspects seems to give a pretty good overview.

    One off cousin marriages, fine, more than one, not so much...
    Well I agree it is probably best not to make a habit of it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,963
    SeanT said:

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    Agree with your completely about Forever. IIRC it stabilised about a 1.4 rating which when you look at what ABC have in the 10pm slot this year - Castle at 1.2 on Monday and Nashville at 1.1 on Wednesday and a pretty negative outlook on Wicked City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    In some respect Grays Anatomy is the most impressive of ALL these US dramas - all of them - as the creators of Grays have consistently maintained emotional and narrative intrigue and potency through TEN seasons. TEN! And they make 20 odd shows in a season, I believe.

    It's just astonishingly good, over time. Perhaps not genius every week, but always exceedindly watchable.

    Nothing compares.

    When you look at the terrible lameness of, say, a British equivalent like Casualty, oh my word. The acting, directing, writing, plotting and general talent in Grays is 50 times better. Indeed there is NO comparison. I squirm when I watch British crap like Casualty, before turning over.
    American TV is worlds ahead of the UK, sorry to say.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    On the topic of "too posh".. I had dinner w my parents today, and my Dad is firmly of the belief that we proles need to be represented by someone with a top education rather than a comprehensive kid/bus drivers son... I tend to agree actually, maybe it is lack of confidence on our part?

    As I say, public schoolboys are known round here as "Confident wallys"... but I think that's not a bad thing for a PM

    I certainly agree that we want our leaders to have confidence, and if the privately educated are more likely to have that confidence then it has to be accepted that they are more likely to make it to the top.

    But! We should ask, why are those from more humble backgrounds less likely to have the confidence to put themselves forward even if they are more talented? And, what can be done about it?
    Generally that is true, though not always the case. For example, I would say the grammar school educated Margaret Thatcher was much more confident as a PM than the Eton educated Anthony Eden. Harold Wilson and Ted Heath and Jim Callaghan certainly did not lack confidence despite their relatively humble origins. Major and Brown did, but that was also partly following Thatcher and Blair
    I think what I'm talking about is the confidence to try something like politics. I don't know how true to life The Long Walk to Finchley was but Thatcher must have had serious confidence and determination to make it.

    On a side note, is it me or do kids that grow up abroad with parents stationed overseas have a greater propensity to make it big? I see Stuart Rose has an interesting background which included going to a school in Dar es Salaam.
    They are rarer but as Thatcher showed not an impossibility. Living abroad when younger probably makes you more open and self-reliant
    Don't know if we make it big, but throughout my life I have found myself naturally making better friends with those who lived large parts of their childhood outside their country of birth/citizenship. This happens even when you are unaware of their childhood until after the friendship is formed. It includes my wife and all of my serious girlfriends.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995
    Speedy said:

    @HYUFD

    I just noticed that CNBC has way higher polling criteria for their GOP debate 2 weeks from now.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/30/cnbc-republican-debate-criteria.html

    "recognized national polls conducted by: NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, CNN and Bloomberg, released between September 17, 2015 and October 21, 2015.

    To appear in the 8pm debate a candidate must have an average of 3% among these polls. The polls will be averaged and will be rounded up to 3% for any candidate with a standing of 2.5% or higher."

    Paul, Christie and Huckabee might not make it.
    If so then it will be a debate of "just" 7 candidates, way smaller than the bloated CNN one with 11.
    The candidates will have more airtime and it will be easier for them since they won't have to wait long for their turn to speak.

    Also if those 3 don't make it they might drop out, Paul and Huckabee dropping will favour Carson and Cruz, Christie dropping will favour one of the establishment ones. But they are polling very low, just 7-8% all 3 of them.

    Goodnight.

    Will be interesting to see how that develops
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660

    What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.

    Jeremy Hunt urges Britons to 'work harder LIKE CHINESE’ in latest Tory tax credits row

    THE Conservatives have become embroiled in a row over tax credits after a leading Cabinet minister urged Britons to graft harder like workers in China and America.

    http://bit.ly/1VMs5u7
    Oh, quite right too.

  • The witcher 3 just ramps everything up- the stories, the graphics, the world. Honestly, hands down, the best game I've ever played. Part of me would say just forget the witcher 2 and jump right into 3, they are just not comparable in terms of quality.

    I upgraded to a new PC a few months ago and now I'm not dashing up to Broxtowe every weekend I've been enjoying catching up with games. I'm through most of the satisfying Pillars of Eternity (Baldur's Gate tripled with knobs on), and was thinking of working my way through the Witcher series next. Would you recommend skipping installment 1 and maybe 2, then?

    In general I like strategy and RPG games with lots of decisions and conversations, and dislike games dependent on fast fingers or tiresome "where is the crowbar hidden?" puzzles. I used to play a lot of Hearts of Iron so I like Paradox's style too. Another candidate is the new Civ expansion. Advice welcome!

    Nick, Crusader Kings 2 an Europa Universalis IV should both be right up your street., especially the first though be prepared for a steep learning curve (not the game play but the decision effects) and to wave farewell to sleep.

    Not sure the implication that Europa Universalis (hours played: thousands) does not have a steep learning curve can be quite right... Paradox's finest in my opinion although I know some big fans of Crusader Kings II.
    Sorry, Mr. Rabbit, some loose wording perhaps on my part. I certainly meant no offence to the cracking game Europa Universalis, but it is perhaps a little more intuitive for an experienced gamer to play as compared to the much more original game play of Crusader Kings. Both of them have caused me more than a few nights lost sleep.
    Oh far from it; the one major downside to EUIV is that it is a complete mindfield to play... I've played my way up since EUII, one mechanic at a time. Can't be much fun to lose.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    What you say is true but this is very dangerous ground It's like eugenics in reverse but with the same ethical issues. What can you do about it? Darwin of course latterly struggled with this issue, being married to a very devout cousin.
    It's not hard. You just ban cousin marriage, on the entirely truthful grounds that it is seriously dysgenic, and produces too many horribly damaged children. We already ban brother-sister marriages for this reason, or uncle-niece marriages.

    Just hurry up and do it. The only thing that holds us back is, yet again, a ludicrous fear of offending Muslims.
    Surely banning 1st cousin marriages is not difficult... I
    Why should the UK have to change its laws because of a cultural problem associated with an immigrant population. The solution should be to integrate the population (instead of ghettoising through multiculturalism) and ensuring that children in these populations get the same opportunities as others.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    What you say is true but this is very dangerous ground It's like eugenics in reverse but with the same ethical issues. What can you do about it? Darwin of course latterly struggled with this issue, being married to a very devout cousin.
    It's not hard. You just ban cousin marriage, on the entirely truthful grounds that it is seriously dysgenic, and produces too many horribly damaged children. We already ban brother-sister marriages for this reason, or uncle-niece marriages.

    Just hurry up and do it. The only thing that holds us back is, yet again, a ludicrous fear of offending Muslims.
    I don't think it's a fear of offending them, I think it's fear of awakening a public sentiment against them. Which will of course be counter-productive to social harmony in the long term.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    SeanT said:

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    Agree with your completely about Forever. IIRC it stabilised about a 1.4 rating which when you look at what ABC have in the 10pm slot this year - Castle at 1.2 on Monday and Nashville at 1.1 on Wednesday and a pretty negative outlook on Wicked City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    In some respect Grays Anatomy is the most impressive of ALL these US dramas - all of them - as the creators of Grays have consistently maintained emotional and narrative intrigue and potency through TEN seasons. TEN! And they make 20 odd shows in a season, I believe.

    It's just astonishingly good, over time. Perhaps not genius every week, but always exceedindly watchable.

    Nothing compares.

    When you look at the terrible lameness of, say, a British equivalent like Casualty, oh my word. The acting, directing, writing, plotting and general talent in Grays is 50 times better. Indeed there is NO comparison. I squirm when I watch British crap like Casualty, before turning over.
    Grey's is on season 12 now.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    There are about a couple of dozen shows that've broken 10+ seasons - Smallville, Grays', CSI, Supernatural, Criminal Minds et al.

    It's a very rare legacy. Even big names like XFiles never made it.
    SeanT said:

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    Agree with your completely about Forever. IIRC it stabilised about a 1.4 rating which when you look at what ABC have in the 10pm slot this year - Castle at 1.2 on Monday and Nashville at 1.1 on Wednesday and a pretty negative outlook on Wicked City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    In some respect Grays Anatomy is the most impressive of ALL these US dramas - all of them - as the creators of Grays have consistently maintained emotional and narrative intrigue and potency through TEN seasons. TEN! And they make 20 odd shows in a season, I believe.

    It's just astonishingly good, over time. Perhaps not genius every week, but always exceedindly watchable.

    Nothing compares.

    When you look at the terrible lameness of, say, a British equivalent like Casualty, oh my word. The acting, directing, writing, plotting and general talent in Grays is 50 times better. Indeed there is NO comparison. I squirm when I watch British crap like Casualty, before turning over.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2015
    SeanT said:

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    Agree with your completely about Forever. IIRC it stabilised about a 1.4 rating which when you look at what ABC have in the 10pm slot this year - Castle at 1.2 on Monday and Nashville at 1.1 on Wednesday and a pretty negative outlook on Wicked City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    In some respect Grays Anatomy is the most impressive of ALL these US dramas - all of them - as the creators of Grays have consistently maintained emotional and narrative intrigue and potency through TEN seasons. TEN! And they make 20 odd shows in a season, I believe.

    It's just astonishingly good, over time. Perhaps not genius every week, but always exceedindly watchable.

    Nothing compares.

    When you look at the terrible lameness of, say, a British equivalent like Casualty, oh my word. The acting, directing, writing, plotting and general talent in Grays is 50 times better. Indeed there is NO comparison. I squirm when I watch British crap like Casualty, before turning over.
    15 years ago it was generally agreed that British TV was far superior to American. Goes to show how things can suddenly change.
  • Dair said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    What you say is true but this is very dangerous ground It's like eugenics in reverse but with the same ethical issues. What can you do about it? Darwin of course latterly struggled with this issue, being married to a very devout cousin.
    It's not hard. You just ban cousin marriage, on the entirely truthful grounds that it is seriously dysgenic, and produces too many horribly damaged children. We already ban brother-sister marriages for this reason, or uncle-niece marriages.

    Just hurry up and do it. The only thing that holds us back is, yet again, a ludicrous fear of offending Muslims.
    Surely banning 1st cousin marriages is not difficult... I
    Why should the UK have to change its laws because of a cultural problem associated with an immigrant population. The solution should be to integrate the population (instead of ghettoising through multiculturalism) and ensuring that children in these populations get the same opportunities as others.
    I don't see what's wrong with using the law to prevent something socially suboptimal. As Luckyguy alludes to difficult to see how we could effect the required cultural change without causing a stir...
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    notme said:

    Tim Farron ✔ @timfarron
    Terrible tweet from @HelenGoodmanMP. Never attack politicians families. I hope she apologises.Clearly she missed the 'Kinder Politics' memo

    Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk
    Holy shit https://twitter.com/HelenGoodmanMP/status/653303286062284800

    Labour have now reached Peak Fuckwittery.

    Oh no, I think they have capacity to surpass themselves based on evidence so far.
    Wierd since her mother was a Danish immigrant. But Hunt has been urging us to work harder, like the Chinese.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    I'm midway between your two positions - I think it has real potential, and after some slower stuff mid way through it picked up again, but it felt a bit too clunky and rushed for my tastes, missed out on some good set up. I think it could be good, but at the moment it's just average. I feel like the universe needs a bit more fleshing out, at the moment it was a bit lifeless - I contrast it with Farscape in that sense.
    I'm a sucker for Space Opera.

    But some of the decisions the show made were really brave and for me they worked. That the felt able to devote episode three to set up a relatively small but crucial plot point in the finale worked exceptionally well.

    It was also really satisfying to see a show where practically all criticism of its suspension of disbelief and potential plot holes was actually answered by the finale. That alone gives me a lot of confidence in future Seasons.

    You are right about the need to flesh the universe out some more but i felt they made good progress. If they tied this series in to Killjoys (which would be very easy to do) that would help this a lot.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    Agree with your completely about Forever. IIRC it stabilised about a 1.4 rating which when you look at what ABC have in the 10pm slot this year - Castle at 1.2 on Monday and Nashville at 1.1 on Wednesday and a pretty negative outlook on Wicked City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    In some respect Grays Anatomy is the most impressive of ALL these US dramas - all of them - as the creators of Grays have consistently maintained emotional and narrative intrigue and potency through TEN seasons. TEN! And they make 20 odd shows in a season, I believe.

    It's just astonishingly good, over time. Perhaps not genius every week, but always exceedindly watchable.

    Nothing compares.

    When you look at the terrible lameness of, say, a British equivalent like Casualty, oh my word. The acting, directing, writing, plotting and general talent in Grays is 50 times better. Indeed there is NO comparison. I squirm when I watch British crap like Casualty, before turning over.
    15 years ago it was generally agreed that British TV was far superior to American shows. Goes to show how things can suddenly change.
    "15 years" "suddenly"

    That's almost a generation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,963
    I wonder if there is anywhere else holding simultaneous discussions on videogames, usa vs uk tv, cousin marriage, political tweet scandals, the american presidentials and so on. This is what happens without a daily poll to provide structure!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660

    Dair said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    A distressing map. Cousin marriages around the world, by percentage.

    http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/6/1/17/figure/F1

    I don't think anyone is surprised to see the hotspots in the Middle East or North Africa.

    But Canada: 10-20% of marriages are to cousins.

    What the Fuck?
    One cousin to cousin marriage in a generation now and again is probably fine. But I'd have thought there was a good case for banning cousin marriages where either the parents or grandparents on either side have also married cousins. I'm no geneticist but surely if you have generations of cousin marriages the chances of health issues must increase substantially?

    There are good cultural reasons for clamping down on it as well. But the health ones seem unarguable to me.

    What you say is true but this is very dangerous ground It's like eugenics in reverse but with the same ethical issues. What can you do about it? Darwin of course latterly struggled with this issue, being married to a very devout cousin.
    It's not hard. You just ban cousin marriage, on the entirely truthful grounds that it is seriously dysgenic, and produces too many horribly damaged children. We already ban brother-sister marriages for this reason, or uncle-niece marriages.

    Just hurry up and do it. The only thing that holds us back is, yet again, a ludicrous fear of offending Muslims.
    Surely banning 1st cousin marriages is not difficult... I
    Why should the UK have to change its laws because of a cultural problem associated with an immigrant population. The solution should be to integrate the population (instead of ghettoising through multiculturalism) and ensuring that children in these populations get the same opportunities as others.
    I don't see what's wrong with using the law to prevent something socially suboptimal. As Luckyguy alludes to difficult to see how we could effect the required cultural change without causing a stir...
    If our authorities (Labour, Tory, and in Scotland too) are not interested in enforcing existing laws concerning rape due to this reason, I see little chance of them bringing in new laws to deal with this issue, much less enforcing them. We're miles away from it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,963
    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    I'm midway between your two positions - I think it has real potential, and after some slower stuff mid way through it picked up again, but it felt a bit too clunky and rushed for my tastes, missed out on some good set up. I think it could be good, but at the moment it's just average. I feel like the universe needs a bit more fleshing out, at the moment it was a bit lifeless - I contrast it with Farscape in that sense.
    If they tied this series in to Killjoys (which would be very easy to do) that would help this a lot.
    Not seen that - any good?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :trollface:
    kle4 said:

    I wonder if there is anywhere else holding simultaneous discussions on videogames, usa vs uk tv, cousin marriage, political tweet scandals, the american presidentials and so on. This is what happens without a daily poll to provide structure!

  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573
    kle4 said:

    I wonder if there is anywhere else holding simultaneous discussions on videogames, usa vs uk tv, cousin marriage, political tweet scandals, the american presidentials and so on. This is what happens without a daily poll to provide structure!

    It's why I like the PB-as-a-pub analogy.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    notme said:

    Tim Farron ✔ @timfarron
    Terrible tweet from @HelenGoodmanMP. Never attack politicians families. I hope she apologises.Clearly she missed the 'Kinder Politics' memo

    Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk
    Holy shit https://twitter.com/HelenGoodmanMP/status/653303286062284800

    Labour have now reached Peak Fuckwittery.

    Oh no, I think they have capacity to surpass themselves based on evidence so far.
    UK Labour is still light years ahead of SLAB. They have some way to go to match their Scottish branch in fuckwittery.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,714
    SeanT said:

    IIRC Helen Goodman has a history of tweeting some fairly stupid or nasty things. But I'm too drunk and lazy to google.

    Wiki reveals this gem:

    "In June 2014, Goodman was invited to give a speech at the opening of a village fair at Ingleton, County Durham in the parliamentary constituency which she had represented for nine years. During her speech, she praised the village for the beauty of its waterfalls and caves and for its connection with Arthur Conan Doyle. None of these features applied to the County Durham village, but were in fact references to the village of Ingleton, situated seventy miles away in North Yorkshire. The speech reportedly "baffled" the audience and after five minutes she was called away from the microphone and informed of her mistake."
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Danny565 said:

    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    notme said:

    How would this go down from an mp who wasnt labour??

    https://twitter.com/HelenGoodmanMP/status/653303286062284800

    Equally, had this come from a Tory MP, you would be (rightly) bemoaning any leftie criticism of it as "political correctness gone mad".

    It's a valid point: the UK does have a better quality of life than China, which just shows why the Chinese approach of pursuing immaculate economic statistics at the expense of everything else is not the road we as a country should want to go down, despite Hunt's comment.
    Maybe, just maybe, she is in the UK to be with her husband?
    Sure, she probably shouldn't've personalised it, especially since his wife isn't a politician herself. But I don't understand the argument that her comment is racist/xenophobic/whatever. Since when it is offensive to say the UK is (in some ways) better than other countries?
    I note you completely ignore the "why did she come here? " part. Not surprising really it's becoming more of what we expect from the left as they descend from the gutter into the sewer
    It's just disgraceful and there is no Defense nor possible excuse for it particularly from an MP.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573

    AndyJS said:


    15 years ago it was generally agreed that British TV was far superior to American shows. Goes to show how things can suddenly change.

    "15 years" "suddenly"

    That's almost a generation.
    By Scottish standards that is almost an aeon.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2015
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Prst was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.

    d City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    In some respect Grays Anatomy is the most impressive of ALL these US dramas - all of them - as the creators of Grays have consistently maintained emotional and narrative intrigue and potency through TEN seasons. TEN! And they make 20 odd shows in a season, I believe.

    It's just astonishingly good, over time. Perhaps not genius every week, but always exceedindly etter. Indeed there is NO comparison. I squirm when I watch British crap like Casualty, before turning over.
    American TV is worlds ahead of the UK, sorry to say.
    I find we can do it if we keep the numbers low. Things like Sherlock are right up there. Doctor Who has had moments of greatness. Much other stuff though is deeply formulaic, nothing more so than the period dramas.

    When you look at something like John Adams, a complete masterpiece, in drama, in grit, in feeling like you are watching an event as it happened 250 years ago. Nothing comes close.

    A show that we just seem unable to do.
  • Ross Hawkins ‏@rosschawkins 4m4 minutes ago
    Labour on @HelenGoodmanMP - does not represent views of Labour Helen will be reminded of responsibilities as elected Labour politician
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    TBF, I think ITV is much better at it. Downton and my personal favourite Mr Selfridge - a series that would've been BBC 80s drama and now done much better elsewhere.

    I watched Mr Selfridge on PBS.
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    s.

    When you look at the terrible lameness of, say, a British equivalent like Casualty, oh my word. The acting, directing, writing, plotting and general talent in Grays is 50 times better. Indeed there is NO comparison. I squirm when I watch British crap like Casualty, before turning over.
    15 years ago it was generally agreed that British TV was far superior to American shows. Goes to show how things can suddenly change.
    To be fair, I think the situation is now changing AGAIN - and British TV is kinda catching up. There are now, at last, some rather good British TV dramas - from Downton (fluffy but hugely addictive) to Broadchurch to Sherlock to The Village etc etc, plus some excellent co-pro period pieces.

    It's Darwinian. We are more exposed to American TV than any other major nation on earth. American TV drama is the best, so we have to up our game or be extinguished entirely.

    Money means that US drama will always be better, in toto, but there's no reason why a brilliant country of 70m people, which just happens to be the nation of Shakespeare, shouldn't be punting out some great TV of its own.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,963
    Some classic reporting:

    Iraq's air force has hit a convoy of Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a [Iraqi] military statement says...

    The BBC's Jim Muir says military statements from the Iraqi authorities on the results of actions against jihadi or insurgent leaders have been unreliable in the past, and are treated with some caution.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34500402
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Danny565 said:

    What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.

    He said that British people didn't work hard enough, and should be more like the Chinese.
    Only in your own mind.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    chestnut said:

    Dair said:

    Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.

    It's not her milk, it's milk for the constituency office and is an expected expense approved by parliament.
    Yep, that's what ordinary folks do for their tea at work. They stick it on someone else's expense bill. Or maybe not.

    It seems like a miserly, parasite's justification.

    I sympathise. However, typically an MP will have 2 offices. 1 could be in ooooh, Hull and the other will be in Westminster. And you may live in say Preston. This is why MPs have expenses.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh la la :smiley:

    SeanT said:

    IIRC Helen Goodman has a history of tweeting some fairly stupid or nasty things. But I'm too drunk and lazy to google.

    Wiki reveals this gem:

    "In June 2014, Goodman was invited to give a speech at the opening of a village fair at Ingleton, County Durham in the parliamentary constituency which she had represented for nine years. During her speech, she praised the village for the beauty of its waterfalls and caves and for its connection with Arthur Conan Doyle. None of these features applied to the County Durham village, but were in fact references to the village of Ingleton, situated seventy miles away in North Yorkshire. The speech reportedly "baffled" the audience and after five minutes she was called away from the microphone and informed of her mistake."
  • glwglw Posts: 9,799
    AndyJS said:

    15 years ago it was generally agreed that British TV was far superior to American. Goes to show how things can suddenly change.

    The freedom that cable channels have and the money they can afford to spend has produced some brilliant television in the last couple of decades. Our commercial television channels produce very little quality drama, and the BBC is nearly as bad.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    I used to like Castle but the nonsense of the marriage that didn't bored me along with the following ones trying to back out of that story line - I stopped watching about 5 shows after. Ditto Bones prepared for cancellation then didn't. I detest Seally = he's a moron.

    It's just crap showrunning. I got bored with Grey's Anatomy and now wondering if it may be worth catching up with.

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    Agree with your completely about Forever. IIRC it stabilised about a 1.4 rating which when you look at what ABC have in the 10pm slot this year - Castle at 1.2 on Monday and Nashville at 1.1 on Wednesday and a pretty negative outlook on Wicked City which is taking over Forever's slot. If Wicked City opens in the low 1s and goes fractional then ABC will be looking pretty dumb. Wicked City could actually open fractional.

    I suspect Forever would have been similar to Elementary and get a very healthy Syndication deal, which these days is pretty rare.
    In some respect Grays Anatomy is the most impressive of ALL these US dramas - all of them - as the creators of Grays have consistently maintained emotional and narrative intrigue and potency through TEN seasons. TEN! And they make 20 odd shows in a season, I believe.

    It's just astonishingly good, over time. Perhaps not genius every week, but always exceedindly watchable.

    Nothing compares.

    When you look at the terrible lameness of, say, a British equivalent like Casualty, oh my word. The acting, directing, writing, plotting and general talent in Grays is 50 times better. Indeed there is NO comparison. I squirm when I watch British crap like Casualty, before turning over.
    15 years ago it was generally agreed that British TV was far superior to American. Goes to show how things can suddenly change.
    Nothing to touch "Game of Thrones", nowadays. "Dr. Who", gets more bizzare as it goes along.
  • chestnut said:

    Dair said:

    Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.

    It's not her milk, it's milk for the constituency office and is an expected expense approved by parliament.
    Yep, that's what ordinary folks do for their tea at work. They stick it on someone else's expense bill. Or maybe not.

    It seems like a miserly, parasite's justification.

    I sympathise. However, typically an MP will have 2 offices. 1 could be in ooooh, Hull and the other will be in Westminster. And you may live in say Preston. This is why MPs have expenses.
    My work pays for the milk...

    A friend worked at a high street bank, they demanded all employees bring their own milk and teabags. Almost a riot.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Dair said:

    The solution should be to integrate the population (instead of ghettoising through multiculturalism) and ensuring that children in these populations get the same opportunities as others.

    That's the sort of clueless idealism we used to hear in London twenty years ago.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    Here we go again - this time it's McCreagh and Blunkett saying it.

    Labour MPs fear purge by Corbyn’s far-left allies http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4583171.ece
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    chestnut said:

    Dair said:

    Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.

    It's not her milk, it's milk for the constituency office and is an expected expense approved by parliament.
    Yep, that's what ordinary folks do for their tea at work. They stick it on someone else's expense bill. Or maybe not.

    It seems like a miserly, parasite's justification.

    I sympathise. However, typically an MP will have 2 offices. 1 could be in ooooh, Hull and the other will be in Westminster. And you may live in say Preston. This is why MPs have expenses.
    My work pays for the milk...

    A friend worked at a high street bank, they demanded all employees bring their own milk and teabags. Almost a riot.
    Point being that if this MP brought her own milk, she wouldn't bring any as she doesn't drink it
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2015

    chestnut said:

    Dair said:

    Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.

    It's not her milk, it's milk for the constituency office and is an expected expense approved by parliament.
    Yep, that's what ordinary folks do for their tea at work. They stick it on someone else's expense bill. Or maybe not.

    It seems like a miserly, parasite's justification.

    I sympathise. However, typically an MP will have 2 offices. 1 could be in ooooh, Hull and the other will be in Westminster. And you may live in say Preston. This is why MPs have expenses.
    Do they make special milk in Preston, Hull etc?

    Obviously, they must. :-)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,799
    edited October 2015

    "15 years" "suddenly"

    That's almost a generation.

    It started a bit before then anyway, with shows like Hill Street Blues, L.A. Law, and St. Elsewhere, but those were relatively rare series. Now there's almost too much good television to keep up with; the proliferation of channels, the syndication of shows, box sets, and now streaming has created a huge demand for great drama in large volumes, which surprisingly the US television industry has managed to supply.

    The best television drama is now as good as anything you will see in a cinema.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,714
    kle4 said:

    I wonder if there is anywhere else holding simultaneous discussions on videogames, usa vs uk tv, cousin marriage, political tweet scandals, the american presidentials and so on. This is what happens without a daily poll to provide structure!

    The thing that never ceases to amaze is the informed resource available on here.

    If pb was a pub, it would have a ferocious quiz night.

    And at least a third of the answers would be questioned!
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    I'm midway between your two positions - I think it has real potential, and after some slower stuff mid way through it picked up again, but it felt a bit too clunky and rushed for my tastes, missed out on some good set up. I think it could be good, but at the moment it's just average. I feel like the universe needs a bit more fleshing out, at the moment it was a bit lifeless - I contrast it with Farscape in that sense.
    If they tied this series in to Killjoys (which would be very easy to do) that would help this a lot.
    Not seen that - any good?
    Great characters, well acted, compelling story, well written.

    But boy, it is done on the tiniest of tiny budgets. The Space scenes look like someone rediscovered the Atari ST that Straczynski used to make Babylon 5 (yes he really did) and the absolutely tiny space you feel like you are seeing in any planetary sets (because you are) require you to be quite flexible.

    If you can get past the cheap SFX and Sets you could really enjoy it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    MikeK said:



    Nothing to touch "Game of Thrones", nowadays. "Dr. Who", gets more bizzare as it goes along.

    I'd strongly disagree with that. Like 'True Blood', I think GOT started well, with a genuinely interesting scenario and characters, and within a few series you're having your brain rotted by stylishly shot softcore pornography and hard violence, with very little holding it together, and you don't even know how you got there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995
    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    On the topic of "too posh".. I had dinner w my parents today, and my Dad is firmly of the belief that we proles need to be represented by someone with a top education rather than a comprehensive kid/bus drivers son... I tend to agree actually, maybe it is lack of confidence on our part?

    As I say, public schoolboys are known round here as "Confident wallys"... but I think that's not a bad thing for a PM

    I certainly agree that we want our leaders to have confidence, and if the privately educated are more likely to have that confidence then it has to be accepted that they are more likely to make it to the top.

    But! We should ask, why are those from more humble backgrounds less likely to have the confidence to put themselves forward even if they are more talented? And, what can be done about it?
    Generally that is true, though not always the case. For example, I would say the grammar school educated Margaret Thatcher was much more confident as a PM than the Eton educated Anthony Eden. Harold Wilson and Ted Heath and Jim Callaghan certainly did not lack confidence despite their relatively humble origins. Major and Brown did, but that was also partly following Thatcher and Blair
    I think what I'm talking about is the confidence to try something like politics. I don't know how true to life The Long Walk to Finchley was but Thatcher must have had serious confidence and determination to make it.

    On a side note, is it me or do kids that grow up abroad with parents stationed overseas have a greater propensity to make it big? I see Stuart Rose has an interesting background which included going to a school in Dar es Salaam.
    They are rarer but as Thatcher showed not an impossibility. Living abroad when younger probably makes you more open and self-reliant
    Don't know if we make it big, but throughout my life I have found myself naturally making better friends with those who lived large parts of their childhood outside their country of birth/citizenship. This happens even when you are unaware of their childhood until after the friendship is formed. It includes my wife and all of my serious girlfriends.
    International citizens of the world unite!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
  • isam said:

    chestnut said:

    Dair said:

    Here's a funny thing..Corbyn appointed vegan Kerry McArthy as Environment secretary. Out of curiosity I checked out her MP expenses for the last year and found 48 individual claims of 60 pence for milk for her constituency office. I have no real issue with her being a vegan but you'd have thought on her salary she could at least buy her own milk...or may be it's against her vegan principles to do so and getting Joe Tax Payer to buy it assuages her conscience.

    It's not her milk, it's milk for the constituency office and is an expected expense approved by parliament.
    Yep, that's what ordinary folks do for their tea at work. They stick it on someone else's expense bill. Or maybe not.

    It seems like a miserly, parasite's justification.

    I sympathise. However, typically an MP will have 2 offices. 1 could be in ooooh, Hull and the other will be in Westminster. And you may live in say Preston. This is why MPs have expenses.
    My work pays for the milk...

    A friend worked at a high street bank, they demanded all employees bring their own milk and teabags. Almost a riot.
    Point being that if this MP brought her own milk, she wouldn't bring any as she doesn't drink it
    Sure, I was referring to the "Yep, that's what ordinary folks do for their tea at work. They stick it on someone else's expense bill. Or maybe not." bit.

    Actually the point can be extended, effectively her expense account is effectively her employee's work account.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    kle4 said:

    I wonder if there is anywhere else holding simultaneous discussions on videogames, usa vs uk tv, cousin marriage, political tweet scandals, the american presidentials and so on. This is what happens without a daily poll to provide structure!

    The thing that never ceases to amaze is the informed resource available on here.

    If pb was a pub, it would have a ferocious quiz night.

    And at least a third of the answers would be questioned!
    Why not a PB.com team on Only Connect?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,963

    MikeK said:



    Nothing to touch "Game of Thrones", nowadays. "Dr. Who", gets more bizzare as it goes along.

    I'd strongly disagree with that. Like 'True Blood', I think GOT started well, with a genuinely interesting scenario and characters, and within a few series you're having your brain rotted by stylishly shot softcore pornography and hard violence, with very little holding it together, and you don't even know how you got there.
    A lot less 'pornography' in later seasons than people recall, IMO. Not to all tastes admittedly, but overall I still think it's the best thing on TV.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,714

    Oh la la :smiley:

    SeanT said:

    IIRC Helen Goodman has a history of tweeting some fairly stupid or nasty things. But I'm too drunk and lazy to google.

    Wiki reveals this gem:

    "In June 2014, Goodman was invited to give a speech at the opening of a village fair at Ingleton, County Durham in the parliamentary constituency which she had represented for nine years. During her speech, she praised the village for the beauty of its waterfalls and caves and for its connection with Arthur Conan Doyle. None of these features applied to the County Durham village, but were in fact references to the village of Ingleton, situated seventy miles away in North Yorkshire. The speech reportedly "baffled" the audience and after five minutes she was called away from the microphone and informed of her mistake."
    The perils of an over-busy researcher with access to Wikipedia....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995
    Alex Ferguson programme on BBC1 suggests in interviews with Ferguson and Blair he should get rid of Brown, 'it does not matter if he is your best player if he disrupts your team'
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    isam said:
    Can see why Farage thought O'Flynn a danger. He is almost funny.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Moses_ said:

    Danny565 said:

    What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.

    He said that British people didn't work hard enough, and should be more like the Chinese.
    Only in your own mind.
    ??
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    "15 years" "suddenly"

    That's almost a generation.

    It started a bit before then anyway, with shows like Hill Street Blues, L.A. Law, and St. Elsewhere, but those were relatively rare series. Now there's almost too much good television to keep up with; the proliferation of channels, the syndication of shows, box sets, and now streaming has created a huge demand for great drama in large volumes, which surprisingly the US television industry has managed to supply.

    The best television drama is now as good as anything you will see in a cinema.
    No, US TV is now much much better than US cinema, which is hamstrung by 1, having to cater for a mainly teen audience at home and 2. having to cater for the Chinese and others abroad (increasingly important to land the really big bucks) - it means ideas, scripts and plots get increasingly generic and simplistic and all nuance is lost.

    US TV doesn't need kids - its aimed at adults at home, and it doesn't need foreign types - the domestic market is vast enough to fund the smaller budgets of US TV shows. So the TV is superior and smarter.

    The exception is animated movies, which just get better and better, but this is because they are aimed at adults - the parents! - and foreigners can use whatever script they like, as it is all rewritten and dubbed.
    I would have thought programmes like 'how I met your mother at the Goldberg's in a big bang' ought to dispel the not made for teen ( or infantile) theory of US TV shows
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    I'm midway between your two positions - I think it has real potential, and after some slower stuff mid way through it picked up again, but it felt a bit too clunky and rushed for my tastes, missed out on some good set up. I think it could be good, but at the moment it's just average. I feel like the universe needs a bit more fleshing out, at the moment it was a bit lifeless - I contrast it with Farscape in that sense.
    If they tied this series in to Killjoys (which would be very easy to do) that would help this a lot.
    Not seen that - any good?
    Great characters, well acted, compelling story, well written.

    But boy, it is done on the tiniest of tiny budgets. The Space scenes look like someone rediscovered the Atari ST that Straczynski used to make Babylon 5 (yes he really did) and the absolutely tiny space you feel like you are seeing in any planetary sets (because you are) require you to be quite flexible.

    If you can get past the cheap SFX and Sets you could really enjoy it.
    I thought they were done on amiga video toasters!!
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    O/T. Anyone know a ballpark figure to rewire a small 1-bed flat?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    Danny565 said:

    What did Jeremy Hunt say about China? Pretty crass and unnecessary tweet whatever the circs.

    He said that British people didn't work hard enough, and should be more like the Chinese.
    Statement of the obvious. If we want to be richer than them, we can't produce less than them indefinitely. No unwritten law saying we can have generous social benefits whilst they work for six dollars a day and live 5 to a room and we're still going to be wealthy and they will continue to be poor. Or do you think there is?
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    edited October 2015

    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
    I'm an economist not an engineer....though high strength steel frames are extremely difficult to demolish unless they are melted (as in the World Trade Center)....indeed this is partly why extremely high buildings are made of steel frames in the first place, to resist earthquakes etc. Perhaps they misjudged the strength of the frames.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    notme said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    I'm midway between your two positions - I think it has real potential, and after some slower stuff mid way through it picked up again, but it felt a bit too clunky and rushed for my tastes, missed out on some good set up. I think it could be good, but at the moment it's just average. I feel like the universe needs a bit more fleshing out, at the moment it was a bit lifeless - I contrast it with Farscape in that sense.
    If they tied this series in to Killjoys (which would be very easy to do) that would help this a lot.
    Not seen that - any good?
    Great characters, well acted, compelling story, well written.

    But boy, it is done on the tiniest of tiny budgets. The Space scenes look like someone rediscovered the Atari ST that Straczynski used to make Babylon 5 (yes he really did) and the absolutely tiny space you feel like you are seeing in any planetary sets (because you are) require you to be quite flexible.

    If you can get past the cheap SFX and Sets you could really enjoy it.
    I thought they were done on amiga video toasters!!
    If I remember correctly (and this is over 20 years ago now) it was done on an Atari ST but this may have been reported as an Amiga in the US press given that the Amiga was far more popular. Of course this could work the other way round - he used an Amiga and it was reported as an ST in the UK but I'm not sure this is as likely as Amiga wasn't as niche in the UK as the ST was in the US.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
    Because the CIA and illuminati are the experts in demolishing skyscrapers and were otherwise engaged?
  • RodCrosby said:

    O/T. Anyone know a ballpark figure to rewire a small 1-bed flat?

    Do you want it surface mounted or chased into the walls?
    Surface mounted, I would guess at about £1500 or so.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dair said:

    notme said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    Dair said:

    I don't differentiate between broadcasters, I just watch.

    Proof was painful and a poor version of Forever which got cancelled at S1. That had much more potential and think it was a shame to bin.

    I stopped Dark Matter at E4 - it was dire. I'm quite forgiving generally until midway = S2 of Murder in the First was disappointing after a cracking S1 which I stuck with to the end. Wayward Pines I gave in at about E5.


    The first five episodes of Dark Matter have a number of criticisms which I understand because I shared many of them. However, almost all off these are not actually failures of writing they are plot points that lead to a significant pay off at the end of the series. As a whole the season works really well and sets up a pretty interesting place to go into season two.

    I'm midway between your two positions - I think it has real potential, and after some slower stuff mid way through it picked up again, but it felt a bit too clunky and rushed for my tastes, missed out on some good set up. I think it could be good, but at the moment it's just average. I feel like the universe needs a bit more fleshing out, at the moment it was a bit lifeless - I contrast it with Farscape in that sense.
    If they tied this series in to Killjoys (which would be very easy to do) that would help this a lot.
    Not seen that - any good?
    Great characters, well acted, compelling story, well written.

    But boy, it is done on the tiniest of tiny budgets. The Space scenes look like someone rediscovered the Atari ST that Straczynski used to make Babylon 5 (yes he really did) and the absolutely tiny space you feel like you are seeing in any planetary sets (because you are) require you to be quite flexible.

    If you can get past the cheap SFX and Sets you could really enjoy it.
    I thought they were done on amiga video toasters!!
    If I remember correctly (and this is over 20 years ago now) it was done on an Atari ST but this may have been reported as an Amiga in the US press given that the Amiga was far more popular. Of course this could work the other way round - he used an Amiga and it was reported as an ST in the UK but I'm not sure this is as likely as Amiga wasn't as niche in the UK as the ST was in the US.
    I have to admit my efforts to create moving tiles on Deluxe Paint didnt seem to be up to the same standards.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    edited October 2015
    kle4 said:

    Some classic reporting:

    Iraq's air force has hit a convoy of Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a [Iraqi] military statement says...

    The BBC's Jim Muir says military statements from the Iraqi authorities on the results of actions against jihadi or insurgent leaders have been unreliable in the past, and are treated with some caution.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34500402

    Iraq does seem to have been making advances against ISIS in recent weeks. They are obviously now linked in with the Russians, Iranians, and Syrians in terms of intelligence sharing, which may be helping. It may alternatively be the Americans providing additional assistance to 'keep their end up', but in that instance I'd be pretty sure they'd want to bag this particular scalp themselves rather than lead the Iraqi airforce to it.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    HHemmelig said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
    I'm an economist not an engineer....though high strength steel frames are extremely difficult to demolish unless they are melted (as in the World Trade Center)....indeed this is partly why extremely high buildings are made of steel frames in the first place, to resist earthquakes etc. Perhaps they misjudged the strength of the frames.
    At the time of construction they were the tallest dwellings in Europe. That is the tallest buildings for living in not offices. Lots of office blocks will be taller. These demolitions are generally designed to implode on themselves. Presumably some charges failed. Would not like the job of checking. The top parts generaly seem to drop vertically, not topple sideways. Seems quite gentle; Top Gear famously put a Toyota Hi-Lux on top of one and they drove it away after the demolition.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660

    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
    Because the CIA and illuminati are the experts in demolishing skyscrapers and were otherwise engaged?
    Yes, where's a jumbo jet when you need it? Nothing like one of those banging into the side of a steel framed structure to make it vanish into its own footprint.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,799
    Dair said:

    If I remember correctly (and this is over 20 years ago now) it was done on an Atari ST but this may have been reported as an Amiga in the US press given that the Amiga was far more popular. Of course this could work the other way round - he used an Amiga and it was reported as an ST in the UK but I'm not sure this is as likely as Amiga wasn't as niche in the UK as the ST was in the US.

    Nah it was LightWave from NewTek on the Amiga for effects, which was never available on the Atari ST, and Video Toaster might have been used for some compositing and editing.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    "15 years" "suddenly"

    That's almost a generation.

    It started a bit before then anyway, with shows like Hill Street Blues, L.A. Law, and St. Else

    The exception is animated movies, which just get better and better, but this is because they are aimed at adults - the parents! - and foreigners can use whatever script they like, as it is all rewritten and dubbed.
    I would have thought programmes like 'how I met your mother at the Goldberg's in a big bang' ought to dispel the not made for teen ( or infantile) theory of US TV shows
    Duh. Of course some US TV - lots of it, in fact - is utter crap. Aimed at kids or morons, i.e. most of the people. But there are up to 40m very smart American adults who want really good TV drama. Hence Bin, Mitchell and Webb) have reached heights Americans never match (yet). I have no idea why.

    Ron Swanson is an amazing character. You just really want him to be your dad.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
    Because the CIA and illuminati are the experts in demolishing skyscrapers and were otherwise engaged?
    Yes, where's a jumbo jet when you need it? Nothing like one of those banging into the side of a steel framed structure to make it vanish into its own footprint.
    Though I have evidence that it was a hologram and the planes are being used in black ops...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    "15 years" "suddenly"

    That's almost a generation.

    It started a bit before then anyway, with shows like Hill Street Blues, L.A. Law, and St. Elsewhere, but those were relatively rare series. Now there's almost too much good television to keep up with; the proliferation of channels, the syndication of shows, box sets, and now streaming has created a huge demand for great drama in large volumes, which surprisingly the US television industry has managed to supply.

    The best television drama is now as good as anything you will see in a cinema.
    No, US TV is now much much better than US cinema, which is hamstrung by 1, having to cater for a mainly teen audience at home and 2. having to cater for the Chinese and others abroad (increasingly important to land the really big bucks) - it means ideas, scripts and plots get increasingly generic and simplistic and all nuance is lost.

    US TV doesn't need kids - its aimed at adults at home, and it doesn't need foreign types - the domestic market is vast enough to fund the smaller budgets of US TV shows. So the TV is superior and smarter.

    The exception is animated movies, which just get better and better, but this is because they are aimed at adults - the parents! - and foreigners can use whatever script they like, as it is all rewritten and dubbed.
    I would have thought programmes like 'how I met your mother at the Goldberg's in a big bang' ought to dispel the not made for teen ( or infantile) theory of US TV shows
    Duh. Of course some US TV - lots of it, in fact - is utter crap. Aimed at kids or morons, i.e. most of the people. But there are up to 40m very smart American adults who want really good TV drama. Hence Breaking Bad. (Check the audience stats for Breaking Bad - they are tiny by US standards, but still enough to make it viable)

    There just aren't enough clever Brits to make a show like that profitable, unless - ironically - they can then sell it to America.

    US sitcoms are, also, superior. Not sure we have anything to match Community or Parks and Recs, say. However our recent sketch shows at their best (Big Train, Mitchell and Webb) have reached heights Americans never match (yet). I have no idea why.

    The UK made The Office originally. The UK made House of Cards originally. We're good at talent, LA is better at monetising things in the long term.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660

    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
    Because the CIA and illuminati are the experts in demolishing skyscrapers and were otherwise engaged?
    Yes, where's a jumbo jet when you need it? Nothing like one of those banging into the side of a steel framed structure to make it vanish into its own footprint.
    Though I have evidence that it was a hologram and the planes are being used in black ops...
    You must be better versed than me. I'm quite happy to leave the theorising to others and simply point out the impossibilities.

    But not tonight - night all.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
    Because the CIA and illuminati are the experts in demolishing skyscrapers and were otherwise engaged?
    Yes, where's a jumbo jet when you need it? Nothing like one of those banging into the side of a steel framed structure to make it vanish into its own footprint.
    The twin towers were not traditional steel frame, the outside walls were structural.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660

    HHemmelig said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Controlled explosion demolition fails to bring down Glasgow tower blocks - the tallest steel framed buildings in the UK according to the report - though I'd have said surely London has bigger?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRzk1b5pbC8

    I think you're right that there must be bigger than these. It's my understanding that steel frames must be used for all tower blocks over about 30 stories high. Reinforced concrete is cheaper but can't be used for the highest blocks.
    (I write as someone who has worked 17 years in the steel industry though I'm not an expert in this aspect)

    Why do you think the demolition failed to bring down the buildings?
    I'm an economist not an engineer....though high strength steel frames are extremely difficult to demolish unless they are melted (as in the World Trade Center)....indeed this is partly why extremely high buildings are made of steel frames in the first place, to resist earthquakes etc. Perhaps they misjudged the strength of the frames.
    At the time of construction they were the tallest dwellings in Europe. That is the tallest buildings for living in not offices. Lots of office blocks will be taller. These demolitions are generally designed to implode on themselves. Presumably some charges failed. Would not like the job of checking. The top parts generaly seem to drop vertically, not topple sideways. Seems quite gentle; Top Gear famously put a Toyota Hi-Lux on top of one and they drove it away after the demolition.
    In all seriousness, I don't know how the f they are going to get the rest of it down.

    Forget airstrikes in Syria - they'll be needed in Glasgow.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,052
    glw said:

    Dair said:

    If I remember correctly (and this is over 20 years ago now) it was done on an Atari ST but this may have been reported as an Amiga in the US press given that the Amiga was far more popular. Of course this could work the other way round - he used an Amiga and it was reported as an ST in the UK but I'm not sure this is as likely as Amiga wasn't as niche in the UK as the ST was in the US.

    Nah it was LightWave from NewTek on the Amiga for effects, which was never available on the Atari ST, and Video Toaster might have been used for some compositing and editing.
    Broadly right: Lightwave to build the 3D models and Toaster for the compositing. The soft&hardware changed constantly (plus ca change..). You can get the list here: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/effects.html
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