My favourite teenage politico has to have been Emily Benn, first selected at 17 years old, and after running again in 2015 after failing in 2010 was penning pieces about how she's just a normal person despite her political heritage, as though being a PPC from age 17 years old is not the sign of a professional politician. No doubt she'll get a more winnable seat for 2020, but given she clearly lives and breathes politics, it's not like winning the first time would have made a difference to how she'll be if she wins when she's in her 30s.
I know young Ms Benn. She does do stuff other than politics and is a very nice and thoughtful person.
Around here we have a Lib Dem Councillor elected at 18 and a quarter in 2011 who is now a County Councillor, and who I can see running for Parliament in 2020. He will be a grizzled veteran by then. The worry might be the lack of outside experience.
My favourite teenage politico has to have been Emily Benn, first selected at 17 years old, and after running again in 2015 after failing in 2010 was penning pieces about how she's just a normal person despite her political heritage, as though being a PPC from age 17 years old is not the sign of a professional politician. No doubt she'll get a more winnable seat for 2020, but given she clearly lives and breathes politics, it's not like winning the first time would have made a difference to how she'll be if she wins when she's in her 30s.
I know young Ms Benn. She does do stuff other than politics and is a very nice and thoughtful person.
She may well be - but the sooner we move away from political dynasties, the better for our parliamentary system. I do not think it is healthy to have so many family connections at the heart of our politics.
Problem with our system is that it;s often not the electirate that chooses the MP, but the Party selection committee. Very, very rarte that a reasonably safe seat is lost, unless there are significant boundary changes. Exceptions for the LD’s last time of course!
I am fortunate enough to be in a seat with the legitimacy of a candidate selected by an open primary of all voters - Dr Sarah Wollaston in Totnes.
TBH Mr M, I’m at a bit of a loss over that. Open primary of all voters to select the Tory candidate? Dr W takes the Tory whip, and thereby contributes to the Tory majority. As you’ll appreciate I don’t care much for a Tory majority in the House, and I’m not sure I’d bother to participate in such a primary. .
I suppose the thinking is that in a safe seat, you might be able to help select a slightly more acceptable member of the party that will inevitably win the seat. There may well be circumstances where one feels a more competent at least somewhat independent minded candidate might be chosen in favour of a useless, reactionary nincompoop. Some Tories may well be worse than others.
I think I'd participate in any party's open primary, if given the chance, for all I'd prefer more seats that were actual contests and not foregone conclusions.
See what you mean. It would be good to have an MP who didn’t use the phrase “hard-working familes” on every concievable occasion, relevant or not!
My favourite teenage politico has to have been Emily Benn, first selected at 17 years old, and after running again in 2015 after failing in 2010 was penning pieces about how she's just a normal person despite her political heritage, as though being a PPC from age 17 years old is not the sign of a professional politician. No doubt she'll get a more winnable seat for 2020, but given she clearly lives and breathes politics, it's not like winning the first time would have made a difference to how she'll be if she wins when she's in her 30s.
I know young Ms Benn. She does do stuff other than politics and is a very nice and thoughtful person.
I'm sure she is and that she does. She is also a professional politician, as she has put what must be hundreds or thousands of hours into high profile political activity including running for the highest level of political office we have, for almost a decade despite only being in her mid 20s. She is more able than I, I have no doubt, but a normal person she is not, and any claim that because she does things other than politics and has to work a job like anyone else who hasn't won a parliamentary election indicates she is not a professional, would not be credible. Someone who has been preparing for and fighting elections for a third of their life is not normal. They might be fantastic, but not normal.
Mhairi Black is not at all impressive imo - very closed minded from what I've seen.
Well, some level of close mindedness is surely expected of any party members (not that the officially unaffiliated cannot be close minded, but there is no expectation for them to be obliged to be to toe a line), as the whole point is you've joined a club and, within reason, you will be expected to stick to a certain line or at least not rock the boat when you disagree, to pay back for all the support the club has given you in return.
My favourite teenage politico has to have been Emily Benn, first selected at 17 years old, and after running again in 2015 after failing in 2010 was penning pieces about how she's just a normal person despite her political heritage, as though being a PPC from age 17 years old is not the sign of a professional politician. No doubt she'll get a more winnable seat for 2020, but given she clearly lives and breathes politics, it's not like winning the first time would have made a difference to how she'll be if she wins when she's in her 30s.
I know young Ms Benn. She does do stuff other than politics and is a very nice and thoughtful person.
I'm sure she is and that she does. She is also a professional politician, as she has put what must be hundreds or thousands of hours into high profile political activity including running for the highest level of political office we have, for almost a decade despite only being in her mid 20s. She is more able than I, I have no doubt, but a normal person she is not, and any claim that because she does things other than politics and has to work a job like anyone else who hasn't won a parliamentary election indicates she is not a professional, would not be credible. Someone who has been preparing for and fighting elections for a third of their life is not normal. They might be fantastic, but not normal.
That background most resembles a cross between the Milibands and Charlie Gilmour, though perhaps more sensible than the latter.
Massively connected / privileged, and many millions cascading down the generations.
Who were the last 3 members of the family who worked in normal jobs outside the political or public sectors?
My favourite teenage politico has to have been Emily Benn, first selected at 17 years old, and after running again in 2015 after failing in 2010 was penning pieces about how she's just a normal person despite her political heritage, as though being a PPC from age 17 years old is not the sign of a professional politician. No doubt she'll get a more winnable seat for 2020, but given she clearly lives and breathes politics, it's not like winning the first time would have made a difference to how she'll be if she wins when she's in her 30s.
I know young Ms Benn. She does do stuff other than politics and is a very nice and thoughtful person.
I'm sure she is and that she does. She is also a professional politician, as she has put what must be hundreds or thousands of hours into high profile political activity including running for the highest level of political office we have, for almost a decade despite only being in her mid 20s. She is more able than I, I have no doubt, but a normal person she is not, and any claim that because she does things other than politics and has to work a job like anyone else who hasn't won a parliamentary election indicates she is not a professional, would not be credible. Someone who has been preparing for and fighting elections for a third of their life is not normal. They might be fantastic, but not normal.
Maybe so. Still, on the whole I think it a good rather than a bad thing that someone who is relatively young is engaged with politics and public service. We're normally complaining about the opposite.
My favourite teenage politico has to have been Emily Benn, first selected at 17 years old, and after running again in 2015 after failing in 2010 was penning pieces about how she's just a normal person despite her political heritage, as though being a PPC from age 17 years old is not the sign of a professional politician. No doubt she'll get a more winnable seat for 2020, but given she clearly lives and breathes politics, it's not like winning the first time would have made a difference to how she'll be if she wins when she's in her 30s.
I know young Ms Benn. She does do stuff other than politics and is a very nice and thoughtful person.
I'm sur.
Maybe so. Still, on the whole I think it a good rather than a bad thing that someone who is relatively young is engaged with politics and public service. We're normally complaining about the opposite.
I'm not really bothered about young people not being engaged with politics - if it gets to be a genuine problem, things will sort themselves out I have no doubt, and young people are able to be engaged with and by older politicians, who are in turn able to be aware of appropriate issues for young people themselves. So young or old public servants the young are capable of being engaged and considered, so I doubt it matters all that much. Old people can have their issues looked at by younger people too of course.
But people often criticise politicians for being out of touch, which I also think doesn't matter all that much, and they in turn often overcompensate by trying to prove how in touch they are (perhaps with cringeworthy pop cultural references or something to prove they know what the kids like these days), and glossing over the exceptionality of one's circumstances or abilities in favour of a narrative which, too easily and reasonably, could be construed as false, due to trying to make a point about understanding normal people, is I think a minor example of the same problem.
I have doubts that teenagers could truly have the skills and temperament necessary to be good MPs (and more vitally the ability to convince a crusty selection of constituenty party members of that), and they naturally won't want to appear arrogant, but if they've managed that, officially (obviously if the selection was down to connections or because they are a paper candidate, no one can admit that), then present it as a strength, not because you are just an average young Jo/Joe because they are not, but because you are clearly an exceptional Jo/Joe.
Philip_Thompson A minimum age of at least 30 sets a line and an expectation that people have done something before trying to become an MP. It is then up to the electorate to judge whether or not their experience is good enough. Parties that then select mainly advisors and union workers (Labour pre 2015) will suffer talent problems..... Anyone notice that?
No it doesn't. It sets a line and expectation that the earth has orbited the sun 30 times that's all it means. It is always up to the electorate to judge but if parties insist on nominating Spads (who are over 30 anyway) and if the electorate keeps voting for the nominated Spads then an age requirement will do nothing whatsoever to stop the Spads coming through and in fact just stop one of the non Spad entry mechanisms and eliminate a very rare but valuable different perspective.
Ok we will have to agree to disagree as you see no problem with 18 year old MPs.
I think they would have to be truly exceptional to be able to do the job at that age, but if the public want to choose them, or some senile old man totally unable to do the job, well, that's their choice and they have to live with any negative consequences of that. Demonstrated competency is not required to get the job at present, and an age restriction won't ensure that competency either.
The Labour candidate in my area was 18, as it happens.
So there is no guarantee that a very young candidate will be exceptional - more likely that they were in the right place at the right time.
I wasn't saying a young candidate would be exceptional - I was saying that to do the job well at that age they would have to be exceptional. As you say, there's no guarantee they would be chosen because they were exceptional. The young lad in my area seemed pretty solid for his age, but nothing special, mostly just parroting party lines, and it was a no hope seat for Labour, so more of a testing ground I suspect.
Which is perhaps another reason why an age restriction would be a bad idea. Younger candidates frequently end up in no hope seats but can then either vanish never to be heard from again, or gain valuable experience which they can use later in life in a more contested seat. I suspect losing a seat is good experience as much as winning.
Margaret Thatcher had a lot of real life experience but fought and lost for election three times before she was 30. That experience helped shape who she was later on but would be banned if an age minimum was in place.
Thatcher only lost twice at Dartford - in 1950 and 1951.
I am most saddened to have just heard of the news of the death of Geoffrey Howe.
Geoffrey was a veritable titan of the Thatcher period. A immensely clever, erudite and charming man. His softly spoken demeanour betrayed a steely man of very considerable political talent.
He was in private much like public persona - an absolutely charming gentleman and a man of generous and often funny disposition.
The political and personal tributes will be fulsome and rightly so. I shall read them and remember him fondly.
Off topic, I've no idea of the accuracy, but this time laps map video of 'important battles' of the last thousand years was an interesting experience, particularly when more modern wars like the Napoleonic Wars show up toward the end and dots appear all over the map at once.
My favourite teenage politico has to have been Emily Benn, first selected at 17 years old, and after running again in 2015 after failing in 2010 was penning pieces about how she's just a normal person despite her political heritage, as though being a PPC from age 17 years old is not the sign of a professional politician. No doubt she'll get a more winnable seat for 2020, but given she clearly lives and breathes politics, it's not like winning the first time would have made a difference to how she'll be if she wins when she's in her 30s.
I know young Ms Benn. She does do stuff other than politics and is a very nice and thoughtful person.
I'm sure she is and that she does. She is also a professional politician, as she has put what must be hundreds or thousands of hours into high profile political activity including running for the highest level of political office we have, for almost a decade despite only being in her mid 20s. She is more able than I, I have no doubt, but a normal person she is not, and any claim that because she does things other than politics and has to work a job like anyone else who hasn't won a parliamentary election indicates she is not a professional, would not be credible. Someone who has been preparing for and fighting elections for a third of their life is not normal. They might be fantastic, but not normal.
That background most resembles a cross between the Milibands and Charlie Gilmour, though perhaps more sensible than the latter.
Massively connected / privileged, and many millions cascading down the generations.
Who were the last 3 members of the family who worked in normal jobs outside the political or public sectors?
Well she does. She works in the private sector. Though whether you would call it a normal job I don't know. I don't know the rest of the family.
More generally, I think one of the problems is that it is so much harder for older people to get into politics. People with experience, with grown up families etc would be an asset in Parliament and yet they are probably less likely to get a winnable seat or to progress if they do get in. That seems to me to be a shame.
RIP Geoffrey Howe, the dead sheep that savaged his shepherd (or shepherdess).
Also the author of one of the great political autobiographies, which has indisputably the finest title of any political autobiography - Conflict of Loyalty.
A most remarkable man, and I do hope he and Denis Healey have many more woolly debates on the green benches up above.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
As it's a bit quiet, I'll ramble a little about Nasr [just realised I didn't actually go into detail why I backed that bet in the blog].
He starts 12th. The Sauber has a Mercedes engine which will prove beneficial (overtaking's easier if you can cruise past on a straight rather than being daring in a corner with a wall next to your head). I think he's a decent driver, and there's every chance for reliability, or other, failure ahead of him. If he escapes turn 1 unscathed, I'd say he's got a 50/50 shot of scoring points.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
My favourite teenage politico has to have been Emily Benn, first selected at 17 years old, and after running again in 2015 after failing in 2010 was penning pieces about how she's just a normal person despite her political heritage, as though being a PPC from age 17 years old is not the sign of a professional politician. No doubt she'll get a more winnable seat for 2020, but given she clearly lives and breathes politics, it's not like winning the first time would have made a difference to how she'll be if she wins when she's in her 30s.
I know young Ms Benn. She does do stuff other than politics and is a very nice and thoughtful person.
I'm sure she is and that she does. She is also a professional politician, as she has put what must be hundreds or thousands of hours into high profile political activity including running for the highest level of political office we have, for almost a decade despite only being in her mid 20s. She is more able than I, I have no doubt, but a normal person she is not, and any claim that because she does things other than politics and has to work a job like anyone else who hasn't won a parliamentary election indicates she is not a professional, would not be credible. Someone who has been preparing for and fighting elections for a third of their life is not normal. They might be fantastic, but not normal.
That background most resembles a cross between the Milibands and Charlie Gilmour, though perhaps more sensible than the latter.
Massively connected / privileged, and many millions cascading down the generations.
Who were the last 3 members of the family who worked in normal jobs outside the political or public sectors?
I've always wondered about the transmogrification of the first Viscount Stansgate into Anthony Wedgwood-Benn, then Tony Wedgwood-Benn then Tony Benn. Did this voluntary travel down the escalator of class signify a growing realisation of the virtue of humility and a better understanding of the problems facing the hoi poloi?
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
"While we can’t really tell why there is a difference, we can say where the difference is: Conservative voters. All three pollsters have Labour voters splitting strongly in favour of staying, albeit with some difference in quite how strongly (ICM had 55% of Labour voters backing REMAIN, YouGov had 58%, ComRes 73%). The contrast among Tory voters was larger, ComRes has Tory voters wanting to stay, ICM has them broadly split, YouGov has them favouring exit: in the most recent polls YouGov had only 33% of current Tory voters wanting to stay, ICM had 42% of 2015 Tory voters, ComRes had 56% backing remaining. In practice, of course, how they Tory vote ends up splitting will depend to a significant extent on the leadership David Cameron gives in the referendum and which senior Tory figures come out in favour of leaving – there’s a long way to go yet."
Which is perhaps another reason why an age restriction would be a bad idea. Younger candidates frequently end up in no hope seats but can then either vanish never to be heard from again, or gain valuable experience which they can use later in life in a more contested seat. I suspect losing a seat is good experience as much as winning.
Margaret Thatcher had a lot of real life experience but fought and lost for election three times before she was 30. That experience helped shape who she was later on but would be banned if an age minimum was in place.
Thatcher only lost twice at Dartford - in 1950 and 1951.
She fought for election in 54 for a seat in 55 but lost the race to be the candidate. So that was three attempts in her twenties while living a normal career as a scientist etc
Contrast with Ed Miliband who spent his life as a Spad until he was elected on his first attempt aged 35 with no real career outside politics.
I'd rather encourage more outsiders with real careers like Thatcher who can try out repeatedly in their twenties and get in at the fourth attempt than Spads who've never been outside politics who get a safe seat first time around in their thirties.
Depends what you read... One has or hasn't been shot down or is reported to have been shot down and it may or may not have been by the Turks or someone else.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
In order for Putin to move his warships to the Syrian ports would they have to sail through the Dardenelles...Gallipoli area..
I think there is a treaty giving all Black Sea countries right of passage.
AIUI, the treaty is more complex than that:
The result of this is that by designing its aircraft carrying ships such as Kiev and Admiral Kuznetsov to have roles other than aircraft operation and by designating those ships as "aircraft carrying cruisers" rather than "aircraft carriers" the Soviet Union was able to transit its aircraft carrying ships through the straits in compliance with the convention, while at the same time the Convention denied access to NATO aircraft carriers, which are not covered by the exemption in Article 11.
Problem with our system is that it;s often not the electirate that chooses the MP, but the Party selection committee. Very, very rarte that a reasonably safe seat is lost, unless there are significant boundary changes. Exceptions for the LD’s last time of course!
I am fortunate enough to be in a seat with the legitimacy of a candidate selected by an open primary of all voters - Dr Sarah Wollaston in Totnes.
You are lucky not to be a Scottish voter being represented by the SNP MPs who never expected to come third, let alone win.
The lack of talent in that cohort is absolutely terrifying.
Ha Ha Ha , they are streets ahead of the Tory and Labour doinkeys.
Around here we have a Lib Dem Councillor elected at 18 and a quarter in 2011 who is now a County Councillor, and who I can see running for Parliament in 2020. He will be a grizzled veteran by then. The worry might be the lack of outside experience.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
So Putin could force a fleet into the Med...to be based at Syria's ports there..which could easily be rendered useless..then he has a fleet trapped in the Med.. no supply line open to him and up against several other fleets...all opposed to him...and the retreat to home could also prove difficult...hmmm what to do now Pute.. Keep your effin fighters away from Turkeys airspace you idiot
Problem with our system is that it;s often not the electirate that chooses the MP, but the Party selection committee. Very, very rarte that a reasonably safe seat is lost, unless there are significant boundary changes. Exceptions for the LD’s last time of course!
I am fortunate enough to be in a seat with the legitimacy of a candidate selected by an open primary of all voters - Dr Sarah Wollaston in Totnes.
You are lucky not to be a Scottish voter being represented by the SNP MPs who never expected to come third, let alone win.
The lack of talent in that cohort is absolutely terrifying.
Ha Ha Ha , they are streets ahead of the Tory and Labour doinkeys.
Statistically there have to be some useless ones among the SNP cohort, surely?
Hmmm. I've been looking online, and it would be good to get a confirmed source for that alleged Russian plane shootdown.
It seems to have started circulating on social media yesterday, and neither Turkey nor the Russians have confirmed it, which strikes me as odd.
It may well suit neither to confirm it.
Putting the tinfoil hat on, it might have been a third party shooting it down. The Kurdish Peshmerga allegedly have SA-7 MANPADS (surface to air missiles that can be handled by one person). AIUI, MANPADS like the SA-7 are only useful against low-flying aircraft and helicopters as they have limited altitude range. I daresay someone more knowledgeable will correct me ....
It would not surprise me if ISIS had MANPADS or bigger systems as well.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Problem with our system is that it;s often not the electirate that chooses the MP, but the Party selection committee. Very, very rarte that a reasonably safe seat is lost, unless there are significant boundary changes. Exceptions for the LD’s last time of course!
I am fortunate enough to be in a seat with the legitimacy of a candidate selected by an open primary of all voters - Dr Sarah Wollaston in Totnes.
You are lucky not to be a Scottish voter being represented by the SNP MPs who never expected to come third, let alone win.
The lack of talent in that cohort is absolutely terrifying.
Ha Ha Ha , they are streets ahead of the Tory and Labour doinkeys.
Statistically there have to be some useless ones among the SNP cohort, surely?
Too early to say, but you would expect one or two.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
Guaranteed to be appalled, we could not beat a carpet.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Why?
If it's as reported and Turkey did shoot it down, then it's in neither sides interest to escalate this. Russia has already admitted incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and they should have known better. It was bound to happen if they continued this aggression.
So Putin could force a fleet into the Med...to be based at Syria's ports there..which could easily be rendered useless..then he has a fleet trapped in the Med.. no supply line open to him and up against several other fleets...all opposed to him...and the retreat to home could also prove difficult...hmmm what to do now Pute.. Keep your effin fighters away from Turkeys airspace you idiot
A Russian submarine refuelled and resupplied in Ceuta, a Spanish port, last month. Putin has enough friends inside NATO to murky the waters.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Why?
If it's as reported and Turkey did shoot it down, then it's in neither sides interest to escalate this. Russia has already admitted incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and they should have known better. It was bound to happen if they continued this aggression.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
Guaranteed to be appalled, we could not beat a carpet.
Said about Chamberlain as we first stood back and did nothing about the Anschluss (Ukraine), then Czechoslovakia (Turkey). If we stand back and do nothing if Russia were to go to war with a NATO member then NATO would be meaningless, Russia would have a green light to expand through force however they want.
Wales are being idiots here. Take the three points as soon as the second man gets binned then you get at least 8 minutes 15v13 to advance the ball. Instead their burning their double powerplay for nothing.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Hmmm. I've been looking online, and it would be good to get a confirmed source for that alleged Russian plane shootdown.
It seems to have started circulating on social media yesterday, and neither Turkey nor the Russians have confirmed it, which strikes me as odd.
It may well suit neither to confirm it.
Putting the tinfoil hat on, it might have been a third party shooting it down. The Kurdish Peshmerga allegedly have SA-7 MANPADS (surface to air missiles that can be handled by one person). AIUI, MANPADS like the SA-7 are only useful against low-flying aircraft and helicopters as they have limited altitude range. I daresay someone more knowledgeable will correct me ....
It would not surprise me if ISIS had MANPADS or bigger systems as well.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
Guaranteed to be appalled, we could not beat a carpet.
Said about Chamberlain as we first stood back and did nothing about the Anschluss (Ukraine), then Czechoslovakia (Turkey). If we stand back and do nothing if Russia were to go to war with a NATO member then NATO would be meaningless, Russia would have a green light to expand through force however they want.
The Anschluss was Austria. AKA Greater Germany. TBH, some historical justification, although really the other way!
"While we can’t really tell why there is a difference, we can say where the difference is: Conservative voters. All three pollsters have Labour voters splitting strongly in favour of staying, albeit with some difference in quite how strongly (ICM had 55% of Labour voters backing REMAIN, YouGov had 58%, ComRes 73%). The contrast among Tory voters was larger, ComRes has Tory voters wanting to stay, ICM has them broadly split, YouGov has them favouring exit: in the most recent polls YouGov had only 33% of current Tory voters wanting to stay, ICM had 42% of 2015 Tory voters, ComRes had 56% backing remaining. In practice, of course, how they Tory vote ends up splitting will depend to a significant extent on the leadership David Cameron gives in the referendum and which senior Tory figures come out in favour of leaving – there’s a long way to go yet."
In indyref while Tories were strongly in favour of Scotland staying in the UK and SNP voters for Scotland leaving the UK it was Labour voters who were the swing voters who won the referendum for No. In EUref while Labour voters are strongly in favour of the UK staying in the EU and UKIP voters for the UK leaving the EU it will be Tory voters who will be the swing voters
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
It's quite amazing how I could sign up to twitter now, say something incendiary about a world event, and it would be in the Daily Mail within a couple of hours.
The moral being I think we should wait until the Turkey story is verified - it may turn out to be hot air, much like the 'civilian casualty' tweets and the 'missiles landing in Iran' reports.
Hmmm. I've been looking online, and it would be good to get a confirmed source for that alleged Russian plane shootdown.
It seems to have started circulating on social media yesterday, and neither Turkey nor the Russians have confirmed it, which strikes me as odd.
It may well suit neither to confirm it.
Putting the tinfoil hat on, it might have been a third party shooting it down. The Kurdish Peshmerga allegedly have SA-7 MANPADS (surface to air missiles that can be handled by one person). AIUI, MANPADS like the SA-7 are only useful against low-flying aircraft and helicopters as they have limited altitude range. I daresay someone more knowledgeable will correct me ....
It would not surprise me if ISIS had MANPADS or bigger systems as well.
MANPADS - Are they like nuclear manbags?
It stands for MAN Portable Air Defence System, I think.
If you want nuclear, then you want the Davy Crockett: the US's rather silly idea for a man-portable nuclear mortar. With a range of a little over a mile, it's military use was somewhat limited, especially for the troops firing it.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
Guaranteed to be appalled, we could not beat a carpet.
Said about Chamberlain as we first stood back and did nothing about the Anschluss (Ukraine), then Czechoslovakia (Turkey). If we stand back and do nothing if Russia were to go to war with a NATO member then NATO would be meaningless, Russia would have a green light to expand through force however they want.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
Guaranteed to be appalled, we could not beat a carpet.
Said about Chamberlain as we first stood back and did nothing about the Anschluss (Ukraine), then Czechoslovakia (Turkey). If we stand back and do nothing if Russia were to go to war with a NATO member then NATO would be meaningless, Russia would have a green light to expand through force however they want.
The Anschluss was Austria. AKA Greater Germany. TBH, some historical justification, although really the other way!
It was Russia declaring war on Austria-Hungary after Austria Hungary invaded Serbia which really started WW1, if Russia invaded Turkey I can't imagine there would be much appetite amongst western public opinion to attack Russia in support of Turkey. Though the most that is likely to happen is Putin will send a few Cruise Missiles to hit Istanbul and Ankara if Turkey has downed a Russian jet
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Why?
If it's as reported and Turkey did shoot it down, then it's in neither sides interest to escalate this. Russia has already admitted incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and they should have known better. It was bound to happen if they continued this aggression.
It's quite amazing how I could sign up to twitter now, say something incendiary about a world event, and it would be in the Daily Mail within a couple of hours.
The moral being I think we should wait until the Turkey story is verified - it may turn out to be hot air, much like the 'civilian casualty' tweets and the 'missiles landing in Iran' reports.
" ... and the 'missiles landing in Iran' reports."
I'm tempted to believe them, at least in part. Even the US can not be sure of every missile reaching its target, and they've had much more experience of using cruise missiles in anger. And if it does not reach its target, it'll either self-destruct or fall on a transiting country.
Put it this way: I'd be surprised if every one reached its target, especially as the Kalibr is a relatively recent system. And given the amount of Iran they had to transit, they would more than likely have fallen on Iran.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
Seconded - NATO would be finished if commitments were not met.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
Seconded - NATO would be finished if commitments were not met.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Turkey got a death wish, if true they will pay big time.
Don't be a dingbat. Turkey is a NATO member and has been for over half a century. Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Next you will be telling me we would intervene. Plenty can be done without war.
I would seriously hope we would intervene yes. I would be absolutely disgusted and appalled with our nation if we appeased Putin and didn't honour our commitments to our allies.
Seconded - NATO would be finished if commitments were not met.
Turkisk army is over 300,000 strong. Some silly people on pb when it comes to strategy
Wigan just gone into lead again against Leeds. Thanks to an aussie. There are a few good aussies.
The Russians have been playing with fire with this one. They've allegedly done - I think - two incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and I think one of those is certain as they admitted it, and said it would not happen again.
Comments
http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/youngest-ever-councillor-speaks-of-ashfield-district-council-hopes-1-3421033
Quite sure that he will have seen both sides of dodgy politics.
Mhairi Black is not at all impressive imo - very closed minded from what I've seen.
Massively connected / privileged, and many millions cascading down the generations.
Who were the last 3 members of the family who worked in normal jobs outside the political or public sectors?
But people often criticise politicians for being out of touch, which I also think doesn't matter all that much, and they in turn often overcompensate by trying to prove how in touch they are (perhaps with cringeworthy pop cultural references or something to prove they know what the kids like these days), and glossing over the exceptionality of one's circumstances or abilities in favour of a narrative which, too easily and reasonably, could be construed as false, due to trying to make a point about understanding normal people, is I think a minor example of the same problem.
I have doubts that teenagers could truly have the skills and temperament necessary to be good MPs (and more vitally the ability to convince a crusty selection of constituenty party members of that), and they naturally won't want to appear arrogant, but if they've managed that, officially (obviously if the selection was down to connections or because they are a paper candidate, no one can admit that), then present it as a strength, not because you are just an average young Jo/Joe because they are not, but because you are clearly an exceptional Jo/Joe.
Geoffrey was a veritable titan of the Thatcher period. A immensely clever, erudite and charming man. His softly spoken demeanour betrayed a steely man of very considerable political talent.
He was in private much like public persona - an absolutely charming gentleman and a man of generous and often funny disposition.
The political and personal tributes will be fulsome and rightly so. I shall read them and remember him fondly.
https://twitter.com/Hillchaser/status/652873842457714688
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hsDn2kNriI&index=1&list=FLg5SdxeHca5JpoZ1j9-RpJg
More generally, I think one of the problems is that it is so much harder for older people to get into politics. People with experience, with grown up families etc would be an asset in Parliament and yet they are probably less likely to get a winnable seat or to progress if they do get in. That seems to me to be a shame.
Also the author of one of the great political autobiographies, which has indisputably the finest title of any political autobiography - Conflict of Loyalty.
A most remarkable man, and I do hope he and Denis Healey have many more woolly debates on the green benches up above.
I am still reeling from "it's ok to spit on tories"
This isn't a one off from that guy though is it.
Betting PostBacked Nasr at 4.3 for points, hedged at 2 (not much available so if it's not there, try 4 at Ladbrokes).
The reasoning and other wise words are here:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/russia-pre-race.html
But the Turks have not been reticent in shooting down Syrian aircraft that invade their airspace:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26706417
And Syria have done the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2012_interception_of_Turkish_aircraft
What do the Russians expect?
He starts 12th. The Sauber has a Mercedes engine which will prove beneficial (overtaking's easier if you can cruise past on a straight rather than being daring in a corner with a wall next to your head). I think he's a decent driver, and there's every chance for reliability, or other, failure ahead of him. If he escapes turn 1 unscathed, I'd say he's got a 50/50 shot of scoring points.
It seems to have started circulating on social media yesterday, and neither Turkey nor the Russians have confirmed it, which strikes me as odd.
"While we can’t really tell why there is a difference, we can say where the difference is: Conservative voters. All three pollsters have Labour voters splitting strongly in favour of staying, albeit with some difference in quite how strongly (ICM had 55% of Labour voters backing REMAIN, YouGov had 58%, ComRes 73%). The contrast among Tory voters was larger, ComRes has Tory voters wanting to stay, ICM has them broadly split, YouGov has them favouring exit: in the most recent polls YouGov had only 33% of current Tory voters wanting to stay, ICM had 42% of 2015 Tory voters, ComRes had 56% backing remaining. In practice, of course, how they Tory vote ends up splitting will depend to a significant extent on the leadership David Cameron gives in the referendum and which senior Tory figures come out in favour of leaving – there’s a long way to go yet."
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9488
Contrast with Ed Miliband who spent his life as a Spad until he was elected on his first attempt aged 35 with no real career outside politics.
I'd rather encourage more outsiders with real careers like Thatcher who can try out repeatedly in their twenties and get in at the fourth attempt than Spads who've never been outside politics who get a safe seat first time around in their thirties.
Fog of war n'all
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russian-jet-shot-down-by-turkish-forces-after-entering-turkish-air-space-1523426
Swedish Democrats 25.0%
Socalists 23.1%
Moderate Party 20.8%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_general_election,_2018#Parties
And Russian interference in the straits was a direct cause of Turkey turning towards the west and NATO:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Straits_crisis
It would not surprise me if ISIS had MANPADS or bigger systems as well.
Take the three points as soon as the second man gets binned then you get at least 8 minutes 15v13 to advance the ball.
Instead their burning their double powerplay for nothing.
If it's as reported and Turkey did shoot it down, then it's in neither sides interest to escalate this. Russia has already admitted incursions into Turkish airspace this week, and they should have known better. It was bound to happen if they continued this aggression.
Putin has enough friends inside NATO to murky the waters.
My brother just recommended 'The Ice Twins' to me, apropos of nothing.
I can recommend the book: it's very good.
TV review.
"In the night garden": The Tellytubbies meets The Prisoner.
Even if it has - the Russians have been playing hardball and not everyone rolls over and plays dead.
Carson – 50%
Clinton – 40%
Rubio – 47%
Clinton – 42%
Bush – 45%
Clinton – 41%
Fiorina – 45%
Clinton – 42%
Clinton – 44%
Cruz – 42%
Clinton – 47%
Trump – 43%
What single word comes to mind when I mention the name “Donald Trump”?
14% Narcissist/ Self-Centered/ Arrogant/ Pompous
13% Clown/ Joke/ Buffoon
10% Ignorant/ Idiot/ Moron
6% Jerk/ Bully
6% Annoying/ Obnoxious/ Loud/ Big Mouth
5% Rich/ Money
5% Dislike him (General)
5% Crazy/ Nut
5% Business/ Businessman
5% Outspoken/ Speaks his mind
3% Bold/ Powerful/ Strong
3% Hair/ His appearance
3% Honest/ Truthful
2% Like him (General)
2% Smart/ Brilliant
1% Dishonest/ Untrustworthy
1% Leader
1% Winner
5% Other
2% None/ Nothing
1% Don’t Know
1% Refused
What single word comes to mind when I mention the name “Hillary Clinton”?
27% Dishonest/ Untrustworthy/ Deceiving/ Liar
11% Dislike her (General)
8% Good/ Like her (General)
6% Strong/ Hard worker/ Determined
6% Crook/ Corrupt/ Criminal
5% Experienced/ Qualified
4% Intelligent/ Smart
4% Promising/ Potential
3% Idiot/ Incompetent
3% Bill Clinton/ Her husband
3% Arrogant/ Pompous
2% Honest/ Trustworthy/ Authentic
2% Sneaky/ Secretive/ Slick
2% Politician
2% Woman/ Feminine
2% Weak/ Useless
1% E-mail/ E-mail issue
1% Joke
4% Other
2% None/ Nothing
2% Don’t Know
1% Refused
http://www.nccivitas.org/2015/what-nc-thinks-of-white-house-hopefuls/
The moral being I think we should wait until the Turkey story is verified - it may turn out to be hot air, much like the 'civilian casualty' tweets and the 'missiles landing in Iran' reports.
If you want nuclear, then you want the Davy Crockett: the US's rather silly idea for a man-portable nuclear mortar. With a range of a little over a mile, it's military use was somewhat limited, especially for the troops firing it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)
Mind you, we went one better with the chicken-warmed nuclear bomb.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11924294/Man-wins-13.2m-with-25p-bet.html
( I know this is different)
Trump 32% (32%)
Carson 13% (8%)
Kasich 10% (15%)
Rubio 8% (3%)
Fiorina 8% (2%)
Bush 8% (7%)
Cruz 5% (3%)
Christie 3% (9%)
Paul 2% (6%)
Graham 1% (2%)
Santorum 1% (2%)
Jindal 0% (2%)
Huckabee 0% (1%)
Pataki 0% (1%)
http://gravismarketing.com/polling-and-market-research/current-new-hampshire-polling/
I'm tempted to believe them, at least in part. Even the US can not be sure of every missile reaching its target, and they've had much more experience of using cruise missiles in anger. And if it does not reach its target, it'll either self-destruct or fall on a transiting country.
Put it this way: I'd be surprised if every one reached its target, especially as the Kalibr is a relatively recent system. And given the amount of Iran they had to transit, they would more than likely have fallen on Iran.
Some silly people on pb when it comes to strategy
Wigan just gone into lead again against Leeds. Thanks to an aussie. There are a few good aussies.