Peter oborne laying into Cameron and his speech today on BBC news,he really does hate Cameron,he even said it was a disgraceful slur on corbyn by Cameron in the speech.
Didn't oborne say Miliband did a great speech last year ?
Disagree that this moment was important. If Brown had gone for it, he would have won and been defeated more heavily in 2012 leading to a Tory majority sooner.
Labour would now be into year 2 of EdM's leadership. The only difference is that Lib Dems would be much stronger (this is not hard).
The Lib Dems would've been smashed in that 2007 election under Sir Ming, though (not to the extent of this year's drubbing obviously).
German chancellor Angela Merkel has taken direct control of the refugee crisis and signalled that she would stick with her “open doors” policy, despite growing public pressure to control the unprecedented migrant surge.
In the latest US polls, Jeb Bush is on 12 per cent in his home state (4th place). In the large swing states of Pennsylvania and Ohio, he is on 4 per cent (7th place; tied in Pennsylvania with Mike Huckabee - remember him?). This just isn't happening for him. I remember when it was Bush v Walker.
They have absolutely no understanding of the political climate in this country, do they?
And vice versa. I still can't believe a politician can unilaterally let 1.5m people into her country overnight and remain in power.
Her personal ratings are plummeting and I suspect before long the CDU poll rating will start to fall. At the last nationwide election the CDU/CSU severely underperformed on their poll rating while AfD were up on theirs. A similar repeat would see the former score around 34-35% compared to their current poll score and the latter on around 10%. Personally I think the CDU will have to disown Merkel and reverse the migrant stance before 2017 very much like the Tories did to Maggie in 1990. The CDU won't lose to the SPD because the SPD are useless, but an assortment of leftists could get into to power in a coalition if the CDU under perform compared to the poll ratings.
I think your recollections are leading you astray. The CDU score in the last election was actually somewhat above most pollsters - see for instance
AfD's score was marginally up as well, though by less than 1%. I remember widespread predictions here and elsewhere that they would easily break through the 5% barrier, which they narrowly failed to do. They are now 1-2% higher and should squeak in next time. They are seriuosly divided and have no realistic chance of getting 10%. However, sadly the left is nowhere near a majority - even if an SPD+Green+Left coalition were imaginable, which it isn't yet, they're on about 43% between them, to around 45% for CDU+FDP (the latter are back over the 5% level) and 6% for the AfD.
Merkel is clearly in stormy waters, but German voting patterns are incredibly stable, and the entire refugee crisis has seen a shift of a couple of percentage points so far. I can't see any outcome other than a further CDU-SPD coalition, and Merkel still looks quite solidly in place.
Merkel had been in power for too long and has very clearly gone mad. I hope that the Germans find a way to remove her before she causes a catastrophe.
Peter oborne laying into Cameron and his speech today on BBC news,he really does hate Cameron,he even said it was a disgraceful slur on corbyn by Cameron in the speech.
Didn't oborne say Miliband did a great speech last year ?
Whatever happened to Sion Simon? Is he doing a Marshall Ney, trying to rally the fleeing Old Guard?
He's an MEP. He's gradually going blind (choroideremia) and I would think he'll be retiring before that long.
He probably has heard of this already, but Britain leads the world in gene therapy for choroideraemia. Rob MacLaren is running a phase 2 trial at present with promising results:
Peter oborne laying into Cameron and his speech today on BBC news,he really does hate Cameron,he even said it was a disgraceful slur on corbyn by Cameron in the speech.
Didn't oborne say Miliband did a great speech last year ?
There was a hilarious interview with him on Newsnight a while back where he started off saying how bad the government was, then halfway through changed his mind and started saying what a good job they'd done on the economy.
Now this my kind of Top Gun: Captain Balislava, one of #Russia's fighter pilots who bombed brutal misogynists of #ISIL today #KarmaHasAPrettyFace pic.twitter.com/lXlP8GCh1b
They have absolutely no understanding of the political climate in this country, do they?
And vice versa. I still can't believe a politician can unilaterally let 1.5m people into her country overnight and remain in power.
Her personal ratings are plummeting and I suspect before long the CDU poll rating will start to fall. At the last nationwide election the CDU/CSU severely underperformed on their poll rating while AfD were up on theirs. A similar repeat would see the former score around 34-35% compared to their current poll score and the latter on around 10%. Personally I think the CDU will have to disown Merkel and reverse the migrant stance before 2017 very much like the Tories did to Maggie in 1990. The CDU won't lose to the SPD because the SPD are useless, but an assortment of leftists could get into to power in a coalition if the CDU under perform compared to the poll ratings.
I think your recollections are leading you astray. The CDU score in the last election was actually somewhat above most pollsters - see for instance
AfD's score was marginally up as well, though by less than 1%. I remember widespread predictions here and elsewhere that they would easily break through the 5% barrier, which they narrowly failed to do. They are now 1-2% higher and should squeak in next time. They are seriuosly divided and have no realistic chance of getting 10%. However, sadly the left is nowhere near a majority - even if an SPD+Green+Left coalition were imaginable, which it isn't yet, they're on about 43% between them, to around 45% for CDU+FDP (the latter are back over the 5% level) and 6% for the AfD.
Merkel is clearly in stormy waters, but German voting patterns are incredibly stable, and the entire refugee crisis has seen a shift of a couple of percentage points so far. I can't see any outcome other than a further CDU-SPD coalition, and Merkel still looks quite solidly in place.
Merkel had been in power for too long and has very clearly gone mad. I hope that the Germans find a way to remove her before she causes a catastrophe.
They have absolutely no understanding of the political climate in this country, do they?
And vice versa. I still can't believe a politician can unilaterally let 1.5m people into her country overnight and remain in power.
Her personal ratings are plummeting and I suspect before long the CDU poll rating will start to fall. At the last nationwide election the CDU/CSU severely underperformed on their poll rating while AfD were up on theirs. A similar repeat would see the former score around 34-35% compared to their current poll score and the latter on around 10%. Personally I think the CDU will have to disown Merkel and reverse the migrant stance before 2017 very much like the Tories did to Maggie in 1990. The CDU won't lose to the SPD because the SPD are useless, but an assortment of leftists could get into to power in a coalition if the CDU under perform compared to the poll ratings.
I think your recollections are leading you astray. The CDU score in the last election was actually somewhat above most pollsters - see for instance
AfD's score was marginally up as well, though by less than 1%. I remember widespread predictions here and elsewhere that they would easily break through the 5% barrier, which they narrowly failed to do. They are now 1-2% higher and should squeak in next time. They are seriuosly divided and have no realistic chance of getting 10%. However, sadly the left is nowhere near a majority - even if an SPD+Green+Left coalition were imaginable, which it isn't yet, they're on about 43% between them, to around 45% for CDU+FDP (the latter are back over the 5% level) and 6% for the AfD.
Merkel is clearly in stormy waters, but German voting patterns are incredibly stable, and the entire refugee crisis has seen a shift of a couple of percentage points so far. I can't see any outcome other than a further CDU-SPD coalition, and Merkel still looks quite solidly in place.
Merkel had been in power for too long and has very clearly gone mad. I hope that the Germans find a way to remove her before she causes a catastrophe.
Now this my kind of Top Gun: Captain Balislava, one of #Russia's fighter pilots who bombed brutal misogynists of #ISIL today #KarmaHasAPrettyFace pic.twitter.com/lXlP8GCh1b
Thanks, wires leading to explosives from the 60s. Must have been a Friday afternoon job.
The explanation is more far fetched than any of Blaster Bates' tales.
We'll see - I suspect it is just media reporting that has muddled it a bit. My guess is that there was some leftover det cord from the old 1960s blasting of the routes for the first road bridge. I wondered if the 'wires' were prestressed concrete that hadn't been severed, but the EOD were there.
I can't recall having heard of this happen on a construction site before, at least with alleged demo explosives that are so old. Plenty of cases of explosives found during construction, but those are usually the sort dropped from 10,000 feet and higher.
FPT: I suspect it's a leftover reel of cordtex quietly buried ... but your other option is also possible, as there were some raids on the Forth Bridge (famously one daylight one - my dad recalls seeing a Heinkel being chased over the Lothian countryside by the Spitfires).
I listened to about 20 secs of that and had to turn it off - everything about him makes me annoyed
I lasted a bit longer -about a minute. He had just said that it was his job to take the decision and failed to suppress the smarmy smirk that appeared. That is when my lunch came back up preceded by my afternoon coffee.
Now this my kind of Top Gun: Captain Balislava, one of #Russia's fighter pilots who bombed brutal misogynists of #ISIL today #KarmaHasAPrettyFace pic.twitter.com/lXlP8GCh1b
We need a countdown clock. 'Days since no apology from Tom Watson.'
Everyone knows what those guys were upto. The same names were mentioned even in the 80's.
That has to rate highly amongst the most stupid, idiotic and plainly moronic comments ever made on PB. And that's amongst some strong competition.
McAlpine's name was mentioned to me in a nudge-nudge wink-wink type of way when I visited parliament in 1997. That rumour - which bedevilled the poor man for decades - was later shown to be utterly false.
To make it clear to someone so evidently devoid of sense as yourself: rumours do not equate guilt, especially in a febrile and combative atmosphere like Westminster.
Whatever happened to Sion Simon? Is he doing a Marshall Ney, trying to rally the fleeing Old Guard?
He's an MEP. He's gradually going blind (choroideremia) and I would think he'll be retiring before that long.
He probably has heard of this already, but Britain leads the world in gene therapy for choroideraemia. Rob MacLaren is running a phase 2 trial at present with promising results:
We need a countdown clock. 'Days since no apology from Tom Watson.'
Everyone knows what those guys were upto. The same names were mentioned even in the 80's.
That has to rate highly amongst the most stupid, idiotic and plainly moronic comments ever made on PB. And that's amongst some strong competition.
McAlpine's name was mentioned to me in a nudge-nudge wink-wink type of way when I visited parliament in 1997. That rumour - which bedevilled the poor man for decades - was later shown to be utterly false.
To make it clear to someone so evidently devoid of sense as yourself: rumours do not equate guilt, especially in a febrile and combative atmosphere like Westminster.
Now this my kind of Top Gun: Captain Balislava, one of #Russia's fighter pilots who bombed brutal misogynists of #ISIL today #KarmaHasAPrettyFace pic.twitter.com/lXlP8GCh1b
Still a hero in Turkey today; they even named Istanbul's newest airport after her.
Dropping bombs on fleeing Kurds resisting forced Turkification?
That worked out well didn't it?
It was a very nasty period in Turkey's history, and sadly the plight of the Kurds has still not been resolved. Not that the Kurds in the form of the PKK make life easy for themselves.
Whatever happened to Sion Simon? Is he doing a Marshall Ney, trying to rally the fleeing Old Guard?
He's an MEP. He's gradually going blind (choroideremia) and I would think he'll be retiring before that long.
He probably has heard of this already, but Britain leads the world in gene therapy for choroideraemia. Rob MacLaren is running a phase 2 trial at present with promising results:
Now this my kind of Top Gun: Captain Balislava, one of #Russia's fighter pilots who bombed brutal misogynists of #ISIL today #KarmaHasAPrettyFace pic.twitter.com/lXlP8GCh1b
Still a hero in Turkey today; they even named Istanbul's newest airport after her.
Dropping bombs on fleeing Kurds resisting forced Turkification?
That worked out well didn't it?
It was a very nasty period in Turkey's history, and sadly the plight of the Kurds has still not been resolved. Not that the Kurds in the form of the PKK make life easy for themselves.
Whatever happened to Sion Simon? Is he doing a Marshall Ney, trying to rally the fleeing Old Guard?
He's an MEP. He's gradually going blind (choroideremia) and I would think he'll be retiring before that long.
Thanks, I didn't realise that and am very sorry to hear it.
Thank you too. Leaving aside politics for a moment, it's a pleasure to read your invariably civilised comments.
Fox, I'm not sure how far the disease has progressed but he already had it when I knew him 6 years ago. I'm not in touch with Sion myself but if you want to drop him a note about the research and how to see if he can get into the clinical trials when they start, it's just possible that you'd do him a life-changing favour. His contact details are here: http://www.sion-simon.com/get_in_touch . If you'd rather do it through me, drop me a note (nickmp1 at aol dot com) and I'll pass it on.
I was tempted to say that Manchester 2015 represents the Conservative Party’s Clause 4 moment. But in truth, the rewriting of Clause 4 was a politically symbolic but essentially superficial gesture. What we’ve witnessed this week is closer to a Tory Bad Godesberg moment, the historic conference in 1959 that saw the German SDP renounce it’s Marxist ideology and embrace social democracy.
It wasn’t just what David Cameron said, but how his party reacted to it. The section of his speech where he said "I want us, the Conservatives, to end discrimination and finish the fight for real equality in Britain today,” was met with a standing ovation. At Labour Party conference it was a pledge to ban Twitter trolls that brought Labour delegates to their feet.
For me, Gordon will remain the High Priest of Dissembling - his lies about his background and beliefs and look at what he's done since being deposed. He's worthy of his moniker as the Worst PM we've ever had.
Now this my kind of Top Gun: Captain Balislava, one of #Russia's fighter pilots who bombed brutal misogynists of #ISIL today #KarmaHasAPrettyFace pic.twitter.com/lXlP8GCh1b
Still a hero in Turkey today; they even named Istanbul's newest airport after her.
Dropping bombs on fleeing Kurds resisting forced Turkification?
That worked out well didn't it?
It was a very nasty period in Turkey's history, and sadly the plight of the Kurds has still not been resolved. Not that the Kurds in the form of the PKK make life easy for themselves.
Conflicted might be the best way of putting it (without wanting to put words into her mouth). The fall of the Ottoman Empire was an awful, prolonged period, and one which led directly and indirectly to many of the problems we had today as other countries divided the spoils. The Armenian, Greek, and Asyrian genocides killed hundreds of thousands.
Yet one man could be said to have almost single-handedly pulled the country from the edge of the abyss. Ataturk was a complex man (I've read books which paint many different faces on him), yet the regard in which he is held by both secular and religious Turks is surprising.
Without him, Mrs J would not have had the life she has had. The secularisation and westernisation of Turkey allowed her to thrive.
More revealing still was what the speech left out. Previous Tory leaders have rarely missed the chance to speak at length on economic issues, if only to ram home the Conservatives’ traditional advantage in this area with voters. Mr Cameron touched on key points, but otherwise avoided this temptation. With Jeremy Corbyn apparently driving Labour to perdition, perhaps he saw no need.
His decision sits in fascinating counterpoint to Mrs Thatcher’s speech after her own triumphant election in 1983. In the just-published second volume of his biography of the Iron Lady, Charles Moore recounts Ferdinand Mount’s reaction: “Social policy was not on the back burner ... it was on a neighbouring work surface.” Here, in sharp contrast, social policy was front and centre of the argument. In the main body of his speech, David Cameron directly addressed a host of issues ranging from prison reform to extremism and religious segregation. He promised, too, “an all-out assault on poverty”.
Whatever happened to Sion Simon? Is he doing a Marshall Ney, trying to rally the fleeing Old Guard?
He's an MEP. He's gradually going blind (choroideremia) and I would think he'll be retiring before that long.
He probably has heard of this already, but Britain leads the world in gene therapy for choroideraemia. Rob MacLaren is running a phase 2 trial at present with promising results:
@TheScreamingEagles 'Scotland Yard has apologised for causing distress to the bereaved widow of Lord Brittan for not telling the couple before he died that he had been exonerated of a false rape claim.
In a letter to Lady Brittan’s lawyers, seen by the Guardian, deputy assistant commissioner Steve Rodhouse confirmed that the former home secretary would have faced no further action over the allegation.'
When can we expect to get an apology from Watson ?
That is just awful, that a man should die with these allegations hanging over him, and that the police didn't bother to inform him of his exoneration in a timely manner.
I hope her lawyers sue the Met, this whole scandal has been caused by the police trying to play politics - see them calling the BBC in to film a raid on an old man's house for another example. Quite disgusting.
The police should always remain impartial and above politics, we have elected officials such as the Home Secretary and Commissioners to set high level policy, the Chief Constables should just get on with doing their job.
What took him so long to realise this? Lots of people have been saying it for years. The only difference is that now Tories don't argue about it so much
''Here, in sharp contrast, social policy was front and centre of the argument. ''
To be fair, Mrs Thatcher's challenges were very different. The British economy had been run down to something resembling a former communist bloc country.
I don't get the comparisons with Thatcherland - it was a Stateist/union driven economy that was stuffed back then. Now we face one that's cultural in the main with lifeonbenefits, PCness et al
Different challenge requiring hard truths after a lot of fiddling about on the edges.
''Here, in sharp contrast, social policy was front and centre of the argument. ''
To be fair, Mrs Thatcher's challenges were very different. The British economy had been run down to something resembling a former communist bloc country.
Britain Elects @britainelects 13m13 minutes ago Tonight (yes, Wednesday) we have two by-elections: a free-for-all in the Western Isles and a LAB defence in Cardiff.
To be honest, I think he's been on a journey from Blairite to wet Tory for a while.
I feel quite sorry for Dan, along with the Southam Observers of this world. The party they supported for so long has now changed belong all recognition, and they are the last honest men left on the sinking ship.
Most of us in the middle have jumped from Labour in Dave's direction at some point in the past ten years, the PMs remarkable speech today is parking his tanks firmly on Labour's lawn, after the Labour leadership spent last week calling for the abolition of tanks.
The ideology which drives Islamic extremists has significant support from Muslims around the world, Tony Blair has warned.
The former British prime minister said that unless religious prejudice in Muslim communities is rooted out, the threat from the extremists will not be defeated.
Notice all the Corbynites on Twitter are going livid about Dave's personal attack on Corbyn.
Obviously not too much else to say. Job done.
Well maybe, although I'm still surprised he felt it necessary to include it so bluntly - what would they have said if he hadn't included it, I'm genuinely curious.
I've just managed to finish watching the whole speech - it was alright. Cameron gives a good speech generally, and although it wasn't really grabbing me early on it picked up from the bit on equality onwards, that seemed to really fire him up. It does seem reports are correct that he intends to double down on what he's already done, not suddenly shift position (while presenting it as not shifting of course) to take advantage of Labour's seeming weakness by tacking right instead. Very positive about the future, as you'd expect from a PM who's won an unexpected majority and all seems to be going for him right now (despite stormclouds on the horizon) but we shall see I guess.
For me, Gordon will remain the High Priest of Dissembling - his lies about his background and beliefs and look at what he's done since being deposed. He's worthy of his moniker as the Worst PM we've ever had.
Top quality thread and it reminds me how much i loathed Brown. You could tell he was lying... his lips moved.
Who could forget Gordo's moral compass
When did Brown lie about his background. Or indeed about his beliefs? He might not have always lived in accordance with his childhood beliefs but when did he lie?
Just watched Denis Healey, the best PM we never had.
Labour really died when they failed to attract people like him into their leadership and ideas. He made many mistakes and some uncomfortable compromises but he was a giant. They don't make them like that anymore and Labour in particular is much the poorer for it.
To comment quickly on the head threader, before I get my first early night in weeks - I don't agree with the thread header. All of Labour's current problems really stem from the Blair-Brown feud. That had two starting dates: either (1) when Brown withdrew from the 1994 contest in favour of Blair, subsequently convincing himself - I think probably wrongly - that Blair had agreed a short premiership and a managed succession to Brown (since that could not have been arranged, it seems most unlikely a shrewd operator like Blair would have promised it) or (2) the 8th June 2001, when Blair, in the aftermath of a second landslide election victory, had what would prove his only chance to move Brown from the Treasury to some post where there would be less conflict between the two and less chaos at the heart of government. And if Brown had moved, or gone, or triggered a contest and lost, there the matter and the pain would have ended for Labour.
From 2001 it was always inevitable that Brown would replace Blair, because he was the only actually viable candidate (the fact that Straw and Reid were canvassed as alternatives shows how thin the talent within Labour became very quickly). The only way he would not have become leader is if he had had sufficient self-awareness to realise he was wholly unsuited to leadership. As Brown lacked such self-awareness, he used his vast powerbase at the Treasury - effectively a stranglehold over every government department except the Foreign Office - to eliminate any potential rivals and forced Blair to promote colourless mediocrities in their place (Jacqui Smith and Ruth Kelly, anyone)?
And when Brown did replace Blair, his indecisiveness, lack of imagination and unwillingness to delegate meant that he was, if not the worst Prime Minister we have ever had (Goderich would surely be that) certainly in the bottom three. Bottling the election merely hastened a fate which could surely not have been long delayed - the collapse in the credibility of New Labour and the resurgence of the left posing as morally pure standard bearers of a new orthodoxy. (continued)
(continued) The reality is of course that with rare exceptions changes of government seldom mean radical changes of direction. With a cold eye, only the minimum wage and the BoE MPC independence are evidently New Labour policies that would not have happened without Blair and Brown. Indeed, they had to bring back, shamefacedly, many Major policies that they tried to get rid of, including grant maintained schools, the internal market of the NHS and PFI (not that any of them were well implemented). The only Prime Ministers in the age of universal suffrage who ever governed demonstrably differently from the way their opponents would have done were Attlee and Thatcher, both under very unusual circumstances.
But Labour, thanks to recasting the New Labour policy situation as personal feuding rather than political pragmatism, believes it can take on a centrist Conservative party with the most left-wing manifesto since 1906 and win. Had Brown been replaced by Straw in 2001, that would never have been possible and it would therefore not have happened.
The ideology which drives Islamic extremists has significant support from Muslims around the world, Tony Blair has warned.
The former British prime minister said that unless religious prejudice in Muslim communities is rooted out, the threat from the extremists will not be defeated.
Blair is inciting hatred against persons on the grounds of their religion. I look forward to his prosecution under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.
He was stabbing his opponent in the chest - not a common tactic - but it was available and clearly top Tories decided it was worth the bloodshed to define him early.
I assume it was to leave the chessboard open for them to play whatever games they want, whilst Jezza complained that he didn't do personal attacks.
Notice all the Corbynites on Twitter are going livid about Dave's personal attack on Corbyn.
Obviously not too much else to say. Job done.
Well maybe, although I'm still surprised he felt it necessary to include it so bluntly - what would they have said if he hadn't included it, I'm genuinely curious.
I've just managed to finish watching the whole speech - it was alright. Cameron gives a good speech generally, and although it wasn't really grabbing me early on it picked up from the bit on equality onwards, that seemed to really fire him up. It does seem reports are correct that he intends to double down on what he's already done, not suddenly shift position (while presenting it as not shifting of course) to take advantage of Labour's seeming weakness by tacking right instead. Very positive about the future, as you'd expect from a PM who's won an unexpected majority and all seems to be going for him right now (despite stormclouds on the horizon) but we shall see I guess.
For me, Gordon will remain the High Priest of Dissembling - his lies about his background and beliefs and look at what he's done since being deposed. He's worthy of his moniker as the Worst PM we've ever had.
Top quality thread and it reminds me how much i loathed Brown. You could tell he was lying... his lips moved.
Who could forget Gordo's moral compass
When did Brown lie about his background. Or indeed about his beliefs? He might not have always lived in accordance with his childhood beliefs but when did he lie?
Didn't he claim his mother was a working company director to boost his family's business credentials when she was a non-executive co-optive Trustee?
I appreciate it may be stretching matters to call it a lie, but certainly Brown could spin it with the best of them. Blair's own background of course was gently 'improved' to fit the Labour narrative of ordinary people as well.
Just watched Denis Healey, the best PM we never had.
Labour really died when they failed to attract people like him into their leadership and ideas. He made many mistakes and some uncomfortable compromises but he was a giant. They don't make them like that anymore and Labour in particular is much the poorer for it.
How would the media treat an ex-CP member aspiring to power nowadays?
I also don't buy this ' I don't do insults' stuff from Corbyn. He doesn't have to worry about dishing out personal attacks. The following he's whipped up do that for him.
It's got his slippery manner all over it - everytime a journo asks him an awkward question, he pulls a face and says they don't understand the New Politics.
It's plain as day as an avoidance tactic. And he gets all huffy when it doesn't work.
I also don't buy this ' I don't do insults' stuff from Corbyn. He doesn't have to worry about dishing out personal attacks. The following he's whipped up do that for him.
I also don't buy this ' I don't do insults' stuff from Corbyn. He doesn't have to worry about dishing out personal attacks. The following he's whipped up do that for him.
That is certainly true. I appreciate that he does not seem to do it himself (often at least, I'm sure he has at some points, who hasn't), but his own rivals for the leadership dished out personal insults easy enough, and leaders harness the bile of their supporters all the time - I can say I'd prefer Cameron not to have gone after Corbyn, but it's fair game, and plenty of people have anyway, and they do in the opposite direction as well, both men know that and accept that, I have no doubt.
To be honest, I think he's been on a journey from Blairite to wet Tory for a while.
Yes indeed. He has been accused of it for some time now. He always struck me as someone trying to get the madmen to see some sense but like Sisypuhus, doomed to eternal failure.
(My phone auto correct fixed "Sisypuhus" for me. I am astounded)
For me, Gordon will remain the High Priest of Dissembling - his lies about his background and beliefs and look at what he's done since being deposed. He's worthy of his moniker as the Worst PM we've ever had.
To be honest, I think he's been on a journey from Blairite to wet Tory for a while.
Yes indeed. He has been accused of it for some time now. He always struck me as someone trying to get the madmen to see some sense but like Sisypuhus, doomed to eternal failure.
(My phone auto correct fixed "Sisypuhus" for me. I am astounded)
I would have spelled it "Sisyphus". But then it was years before I got Anne of Cleves right!
On topic, I always liked Brown, a bit anyway - maybe it was just because I thought Blair was such a slimy, obsequious sort (and I struggle to understand financial matters), but he always came across better to me than I saw reported, it made his team's overly intense defence of him in the 2010 debates counter productive, as it was like they as well the opposition thought he was crap and were struggling to say otherwise, when milder defence/support would have made him seem fine.
The ideology which drives Islamic extremists has significant support from Muslims around the world, Tony Blair has warned.
The former British prime minister said that unless religious prejudice in Muslim communities is rooted out, the threat from the extremists will not be defeated.
Blair is inciting hatred against persons on the grounds of their religion. I look forward to his prosecution under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.
He makes a compelling case:
“The conspiracy theories which illuminate much of the jihadi writings have significant support even amongst parts of the mainstream population of some Muslim countries,” he said.
“There are millions of schoolchildren every day in countries round the world – not just in the Middle East – who are taught a view of the world and of their religion which is narrow-minded, prejudicial and therefore, in the context of a globalised world, dangerous.”
“If large numbers of people really do believe that the desire of the USA or the west is to disrespect or oppress Islam, then it is not surprising that some find recourse to violence acceptable in order to reassert the ‘dignity’ of the oppressed,” he said.
“If young people are educated that Jews are evil or that anyone who holds a different view of religion is an enemy, it is obvious that this prejudice will give rise, in certain circumstances, to action in accordance with it.
“The reality is that in parts of the Muslim community a discourse has grown up which is profoundly hostile to peaceful coexistence. Countering this is an essential part of fighting extremism.”
He looks tired - and old(er). Almost unwell, in fact.
Not sure I can be arsed watching all 55 minutes.
Given the opportunity he has been given, I thought Cameron took it well. It was the most "social" Tory leader's speech I have heard. There is a paternalistic Tory about him - like the Whitelaws and Carringtons.
However, his personal attack on Corbyn by deliberately half quoting is truly unpardonable.
But the biggest mistake of the premiership is coming. The benefits cut could be his poll tax. When the going gets tough, don't expect the Unionists from NI would bail him out.
Thanks, wires leading to explosives from the 60s. Must have been a Friday afternoon job.
The explanation is more far fetched than any of Blaster Bates' tales.
We'll see - I suspect it is just media reporting that has muddled it a bit. My guess is that there was some leftover det cord from the old 1960s blasting of the routes for the first road bridge. I wondered if the 'wires' were prestressed concrete that hadn't been severed, but the EOD were there.
I can't recall having heard of this happen on a construction site before, at least with alleged demo explosives that are so old. Plenty of cases of explosives found during construction, but those are usually the sort dropped from 10,000 feet and higher.
FPT: I suspect it's a leftover reel of cordtex quietly buried ... but your other option is also possible, as there were some raids on the Forth Bridge (famously one daylight one - my dad recalls seeing a Heinkel being chased over the Lothian countryside by the Spitfires).
Probably that particular raid, possibly that specific plane, though IIRC one came down near North Berwick too. His memories would certainly match what little I have checked about the raid.
He looks tired - and old(er). Almost unwell, in fact.
Not sure I can be arsed watching all 55 minutes.
However, his personal attack on Corbyn by deliberately half quoting is truly unpardonable.
.
Hmm, i wouldn't say it was unpardonable. Since when is half quoting an opponent to attack them personally so unusual as to be unpardonable? Sure, the full quote's topic is such that the half quote is worse than when it is normally done but that 's due to the full quote, and as a tactic it's not one I enjoy, but it really isn't something any side can claim a moral high ground on, tactically.
He looks tired - and old(er). Almost unwell, in fact.
Not sure I can be arsed watching all 55 minutes.
Given the opportunity he has been given, I thought Cameron took it well. It was the most "social" Tory leader's speech I have heard. There is a paternalistic Tory about him - like the Whitelaws and Carringtons.
However, his personal attack on Corbyn by deliberately half quoting is truly unpardonable.
But the biggest mistake of the premiership is coming. The benefits cut could be his poll tax. When the going gets tough, don't expect the Unionists from NI would bail him out.
The attack on Corbyn was perfectly justified. The man considered the death of Osama Bin Laden to be a tragedy. He deserves to be slammed for that.
Fantastic documentary about Healey on BBC2. A truly impressive man.
For anybody not wanting to go all teary eyed at Healey's political beatification (ie all those of us who were there). Andrew Roberts' demolition of his record in government is a welcome antidote
He looks tired - and old(er). Almost unwell, in fact.
Not sure I can be arsed watching all 55 minutes.
Given the opportunity he has been given, I thought Cameron took it well. It was the most "social" Tory leader's speech I have heard. There is a paternalistic Tory about him - like the Whitelaws and Carringtons.
However, his personal attack on Corbyn by deliberately half quoting is truly unpardonable.
But the biggest mistake of the premiership is coming. The benefits cut could be his poll tax. When the going gets tough, don't expect the Unionists from NI would bail him out.
The attack on Corbyn was perfectly justified. The man considered the death of Osama Bin Laden to be a tragedy. He deserves to be slammed for that.
The ideology which drives Islamic extremists has significant support from Muslims around the world, Tony Blair has warned.
The former British prime minister said that unless religious prejudice in Muslim communities is rooted out, the threat from the extremists will not be defeated.
The Warmongering s-o-b should be in the Hague right now. Look what he and that fool GWB has done ! Then he became the most biased pro-Israeli "mediator".
They have absolutely no understanding of the political climate in this country, do they?
And vice versa. I still can't believe a politician can unilaterally let 1.5m people into her country overnight and remain in power.
Her personal ratings are plummeting and I suspect before long the CDU poll rating will start to fall. At the last nationwide election the CDU/CSU severely underperformed on their poll rating while AfD were up on theirs. A similar repeat would see the former score around 34-35% compared to their current poll score and the latter on around 10%. Personally I think the CDU will have to disown Merkel and reverse the migrant stance before 2017 very much like the Tories did to Maggie in 1990. The CDU won't lose to the SPD because the SPD are useless, but an assortment of leftists could get into to power in a coalition if the CDU under perform compared to the poll ratings.
I think your recollections are leading you astray. The CDU score in the last election was actually somewhat above most pollsters - see for instance
AfD's score was marginally up as well, though by less than 1%. I remember widespread predictions here and elsewhere that they would easily break through the 5% barrier, which they narrowly failed to do. They are now 1-2% higher and should squeak in next time. They are seriuosly divided and have no realistic chance of getting 10%. However, sadly the left is nowhere near a majority - even if an SPD+Green+Left coalition were imaginable, which it isn't yet, they're on about 43% between them, to around 45% for CDU+FDP (the latter are back over the 5% level) and 6% for the AfD.
Merkel is clearly in stormy waters, but German voting patterns are incredibly stable, and the entire refugee crisis has seen a shift of a couple of percentage points so far. I can't see any outcome other than a further CDU-SPD coalition, and Merkel still looks quite solidly in place.
Merkel had been in power for too long and has very clearly gone mad. I hope that the Germans find a way to remove her before she causes a catastrophe.
The damage is already done and clearly it's not just Germany which will suffer. I hope the Tories are really girding their loins on immigration. Not sure that Merkel is sectionable but she certainly shouldn't be left in charge of the cat.
He looks tired - and old(er). Almost unwell, in fact.
Not sure I can be arsed watching all 55 minutes.
Given the opportunity he has been given, I thought Cameron took it well. It was the most "social" Tory leader's speech I have heard. There is a paternalistic Tory about him - like the Whitelaws and Carringtons.
However, his personal attack on Corbyn by deliberately half quoting is truly unpardonable.
But the biggest mistake of the premiership is coming. The benefits cut could be his poll tax. When the going gets tough, don't expect the Unionists from NI would bail him out.
The attack on Corbyn was perfectly justified. The man considered the death of Osama Bin Laden to be a tragedy. He deserves to be slammed for that.
It sounded very Republican to me.
Perhaps. It seemed like a tossing a little red meat at the conference lions, some of whom would not, I'm, sure like the rest of the speech as much. All things considered, while I think that first half of the speech was weaker, he didn't spend as much time Labour bashing as I thought he would, and that was about the only Corbyn bashing. Not much, all told (although as Isabelle Oakeshott knows, you cannot complain if people focus on the most controversial statement even in a much larger and substantial piece of work).
For anybody not wanting to go all teary eyed at Healey's political beatification (ie all those of us who were there). Andrew Roberts' demolition of his record in government is a welcome antidote'
30% inflation,then lies about the actual inflation rate and then going to the IMF with a begging bowl is quite a legacy.
He looks tired - and old(er). Almost unwell, in fact.
Not sure I can be arsed watching all 55 minutes.
Maybe I'm doing the 10 year thing and comparing him to his first Conference 2005 speech.
Boy oh boy does being PM age you. I couldn't do it for all the tea in China.
That's very true. Senior politicians seem to age at double the usual rate. Happens in other countries too, look at Obama and Merkel.
It's obviously a very stressful job, one can't blame DC for wanting to call it a day after a decade in the big chair, especially given that his kids are still young.
He looks tired - and old(er). Almost unwell, in fact.
Not sure I can be arsed watching all 55 minutes.
Given the opportunity he has been given, I thought Cameron took it well. It was the most "social" Tory leader's speech I have heard. There is a paternalistic Tory about him - like the Whitelaws and Carringtons.
However, his personal attack on Corbyn by deliberately half quoting is truly unpardonable.
But the biggest mistake of the premiership is coming. The benefits cut could be his poll tax. When the going gets tough, don't expect the Unionists from NI would bail him out.
The attack on Corbyn was perfectly justified. The man considered the death of Osama Bin Laden to be a tragedy. He deserves to be slammed for that.
So, you would have opposed a Nuremberg style trial of OBL ? Maybe, indeed you would have been opposed to it. After all, evidence would have come out how this hateful deranged man turned up in Afghanistan. Who sponsored him to be there in the first place ?
I also don't buy this ' I don't do insults' stuff from Corbyn. He doesn't have to worry about dishing out personal attacks. The following he's whipped up do that for him.
No - you're mistaken there. I've known him for 40 years, during most of which time he had no Parliamentary following whatever. I don't recall him ever having a personal go at anyone. I don't actually think it's because he's especially saintly - rather, he's by temperament (though not background) an intellectual, and only really interested in discussing what should be done. Slagging people off seems to him a tiresome distraction from the underlying issues, like a gossipy GP who rants about a traffic warden instead of dealing with your illness.
Comments
Didn't oborne say Miliband did a great speech last year ?
This was 'supposed to be satire' but it hit a raw nerve.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4171740/
Kemal Ataturk's adopted daughter was Turkey's first top gun, and one of the first female aviation pilots to fight in combat..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabiha_Gökçen
Still a hero in Turkey today; they even named Istanbul's newest airport after her.
www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/fit-birds-in-uniform.213613/
http://tinyurl.com/kpelsth
That worked out well didn't it?
McAlpine's name was mentioned to me in a nudge-nudge wink-wink type of way when I visited parliament in 1997. That rumour - which bedevilled the poor man for decades - was later shown to be utterly false.
To make it clear to someone so evidently devoid of sense as yourself: rumours do not equate guilt, especially in a febrile and combative atmosphere like Westminster.
I'd pay for a part of the TVLF if it just involved BBC4 subsection.
Small world - he's absolutely nuts, but a great guy. Used to specialise in eye disorders caused by excessive use of ejector seats
What does your good lady feel about it all?
Fox, I'm not sure how far the disease has progressed but he already had it when I knew him 6 years ago. I'm not in touch with Sion myself but if you want to drop him a note about the research and how to see if he can get into the clinical trials when they start, it's just possible that you'd do him a life-changing favour. His contact details are here: http://www.sion-simon.com/get_in_touch . If you'd rather do it through me, drop me a note (nickmp1 at aol dot com) and I'll pass it on.
Fudge
6oz wishful thinking
lots of $113pb oil
sour grapes
then half bake @ 45%
Dan Hodges in post Labour mode
Yet one man could be said to have almost single-handedly pulled the country from the edge of the abyss. Ataturk was a complex man (I've read books which paint many different faces on him), yet the regard in which he is held by both secular and religious Turks is surprising.
Without him, Mrs J would not have had the life she has had. The secularisation and westernisation of Turkey allowed her to thrive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11906143/Vince-Cable-received-bizarre-5am-phone-calls-from-Gordon-Brown.html
I hope her lawyers sue the Met, this whole scandal has been caused by the police trying to play politics - see them calling the BBC in to film a raid on an old man's house for another example. Quite disgusting.
The police should always remain impartial and above politics, we have elected officials such as the Home Secretary and Commissioners to set high level policy, the Chief Constables should just get on with doing their job.
To be fair, Mrs Thatcher's challenges were very different. The British economy had been run down to something resembling a former communist bloc country.
I wouldn't want to be in his skin - but that's no excuse for his behaviour in office given it was his reason d'etre for a decade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF0twf3u5wA
Different challenge requiring hard truths after a lot of fiddling about on the edges.
Britain Elects @britainelects 13m13 minutes ago
Tonight (yes, Wednesday) we have two by-elections: a free-for-all in the Western Isles and a LAB defence in Cardiff.
Obviously not too much else to say. Job done.
Most of us in the middle have jumped from Labour in Dave's direction at some point in the past ten years, the PMs remarkable speech today is parking his tanks firmly on Labour's lawn, after the Labour leadership spent last week calling for the abolition of tanks.
The former British prime minister said that unless religious prejudice in Muslim communities is rooted out, the threat from the extremists will not be defeated.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/06/tony-blair-islamic-extremists-ideology-supported-by-muslims
I've just managed to finish watching the whole speech - it was alright. Cameron gives a good speech generally, and although it wasn't really grabbing me early on it picked up from the bit on equality onwards, that seemed to really fire him up. It does seem reports are correct that he intends to double down on what he's already done, not suddenly shift position (while presenting it as not shifting of course) to take advantage of Labour's seeming weakness by tacking right instead. Very positive about the future, as you'd expect from a PM who's won an unexpected majority and all seems to be going for him right now (despite stormclouds on the horizon) but we shall see I guess.
Labour really died when they failed to attract people like him into their leadership and ideas. He made many mistakes and some uncomfortable compromises but he was a giant. They don't make them like that anymore and Labour in particular is much the poorer for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0
From 2001 it was always inevitable that Brown would replace Blair, because he was the only actually viable candidate (the fact that Straw and Reid were canvassed as alternatives shows how thin the talent within Labour became very quickly). The only way he would not have become leader is if he had had sufficient self-awareness to realise he was wholly unsuited to leadership. As Brown lacked such self-awareness, he used his vast powerbase at the Treasury - effectively a stranglehold over every government department except the Foreign Office - to eliminate any potential rivals and forced Blair to promote colourless mediocrities in their place (Jacqui Smith and Ruth Kelly, anyone)?
And when Brown did replace Blair, his indecisiveness, lack of imagination and unwillingness to delegate meant that he was, if not the worst Prime Minister we have ever had (Goderich would surely be that) certainly in the bottom three. Bottling the election merely hastened a fate which could surely not have been long delayed - the collapse in the credibility of New Labour and the resurgence of the left posing as morally pure standard bearers of a new orthodoxy.
(continued)
The reality is of course that with rare exceptions changes of government seldom mean radical changes of direction. With a cold eye, only the minimum wage and the BoE MPC independence are evidently New Labour policies that would not have happened without Blair and Brown. Indeed, they had to bring back, shamefacedly, many Major policies that they tried to get rid of, including grant maintained schools, the internal market of the NHS and PFI (not that any of them were well implemented). The only Prime Ministers in the age of universal suffrage who ever governed demonstrably differently from the way their opponents would have done were Attlee and Thatcher, both under very unusual circumstances.
But Labour, thanks to recasting the New Labour policy situation as personal feuding rather than political pragmatism, believes it can take on a centrist Conservative party with the most left-wing manifesto since 1906 and win. Had Brown been replaced by Straw in 2001, that would never have been possible and it would therefore not have happened.
Not sure I can be arsed watching all 55 minutes.
I assume it was to leave the chessboard open for them to play whatever games they want, whilst Jezza complained that he didn't do personal attacks.
I appreciate it may be stretching matters to call it a lie, but certainly Brown could spin it with the best of them. Blair's own background of course was gently 'improved' to fit the Labour narrative of ordinary people as well.
It's plain as day as an avoidance tactic. And he gets all huffy when it doesn't work.
(My phone auto correct fixed "Sisypuhus" for me. I am astounded)
“The conspiracy theories which illuminate much of the jihadi writings have significant support even amongst parts of the mainstream population of some Muslim countries,” he said.
“There are millions of schoolchildren every day in countries round the world – not just in the Middle East – who are taught a view of the world and of their religion which is narrow-minded, prejudicial and therefore, in the context of a globalised world, dangerous.”
“If large numbers of people really do believe that the desire of the USA or the west is to disrespect or oppress Islam, then it is not surprising that some find recourse to violence acceptable in order to reassert the ‘dignity’ of the oppressed,” he said.
“If young people are educated that Jews are evil or that anyone who holds a different view of religion is an enemy, it is obvious that this prejudice will give rise, in certain circumstances, to action in accordance with it.
“The reality is that in parts of the Muslim community a discourse has grown up which is profoundly hostile to peaceful coexistence. Countering this is an essential part of fighting extremism.”
P: at what point does a dystopian future become a dystopian present ?
C: P - In the UK specifically when the Tories were voted into a majority government
However, his personal attack on Corbyn by deliberately half quoting is truly unpardonable.
But the biggest mistake of the premiership is coming. The benefits cut could be his poll tax. When the going gets tough, don't expect the Unionists from NI would bail him out.
Boy oh boy does being PM age you. I couldn't do it for all the tea in China.
'Everyone knows what those guys were upto. The same names were mentioned even in the 80's.'
Just take a look at Panorama and you won't have to make your moronic comments.
For anybody not wanting to go all teary eyed at Healey's political beatification (ie all those of us who were there). Andrew Roberts' demolition of his record in government is a welcome antidote
For anybody not wanting to go all teary eyed at Healey's political beatification (ie all those of us who were there). Andrew Roberts' demolition of his record in government is a welcome antidote'
30% inflation,then lies about the actual inflation rate and then going to the IMF with a begging bowl is quite a legacy.
It's obviously a very stressful job, one can't blame DC for wanting to call it a day after a decade in the big chair, especially given that his kids are still young.