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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Guardian’s right – the Adonis move is a major coup for

SystemSystem Posts: 12,292
edited 2015 05 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Guardian’s right – the Adonis move is a major coup for Osborne

It has been pointed out very strongly overnight that Lord Adonis has not left the Labour Party. Maybe. But instead of being a Labour peer he will in future sit with the crossbenchers in the House of Lords which is a big move.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    No, because there is still a lot of freedom of manoeuvring and space within the Labour Party while Jeremy Corbyn gets used to working out what his style of leadership is going to be like (and they all get used to him). But in any case, armadillo anyway.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    It is a coup for Osborne - but I suspect both he (and especially Adonis) will play it as 'for the greater good of the country' and leave 'Corbyn Labour sucks' to others.

    That said, there must be a fair few fifty-something Labour MPs looking at the prospect of doing much more with their lives than being a backbench MP (and likely opposition one at that) rapidly receding over the horizon.....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,738
    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Heir-to-Brown recruits GOATs, but I'm not sure it was a good idea for Brown or for Osborne. Partly because those recruited from Opposition parties or even outside politics do not owe their first loyalties to you so can go off-message (see, for instance, Lords West, Sugar and, erm, Adonis).

    More importantly, however, it will be resented by those passed over on your own side (who, incidentally, will be voting for a new Prime Minister in a couple of years). OGH's OP makes the point Labour luminaries will be weighing up their career prospects. Conservatives will be doing the same.


    As an aside, how difficult would it have been in 2010 to stick Lord Aschroft in charge of some overarching new quango along these lines?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Good Morning Fragrant Non-Tory PBers.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    F*ck Off PB Tory Scum ....

    So that's what it feels like to be a member of the great Manchester unwashed.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited 2015 05
    JackW said:

    F*ck Off PB Tory Scum ....

    So that's what it feels like to be a member of the great Manchester unwashed.

    Who shop at Waitrose (run on their eggs apparently - wouldn't want to egg F*cking Tory Scum with battery hen eggs.....)
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Musing on the great Manchester unwashed are we condemned to not having TSE publish his AV masterpiece thread until Jezza becomes PM ....

    Sad day ... :smile:
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,738
    edited 2015 05
    JackW said:

    Musing on the great Manchester unwashed are we condemned to not having TSE publish his AV masterpiece thread until Jezza becomes PM ....

    Sad day ... :smile:

    I believe he's spending the day at Trafford Docks, caring for fallen ladies in a Gladstonian way.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,236

    Heir-to-Brown recruits GOATs, but I'm not sure it was a good idea for Brown or for Osborne. Partly because those recruited from Opposition parties or even outside politics do not owe their first loyalties to you so can go off-message (see, for instance, Lords West, Sugar and, erm, Adonis).

    More importantly, however, it will be resented by those passed over on your own side (who, incidentally, will be voting for a new Prime Minister in a couple of years). OGH's OP makes the point Labour luminaries will be weighing up their career prospects. Conservatives will be doing the same.

    As an aside, how difficult would it have been in 2010 to stick Lord Aschroft in charge of some overarching new quango along these lines?

    A rather pathetic attempt at spin there.

    I've been going on about the need to get future infrastructure requirements in this country sorted for some time: instead of a series of one-of and unconnected projects, we need a national plan that looks at the needs of the nation.

    It looks as though this is what Adonis and this independent group will be doing. I haven't read the details, but I assume it is up to them to come up with recommendations, and for the government to decide which of the proposed projects to take forward.

    The difference between Ashcroft and Adonis is that Adonis actually has a track record in this area and is, as I have said passim, rather good. He's got deep experience in this area already, and I cannot think of a similarly-skilled Conservative MP.

    As an aside, I'd love it if this group looked into the costs of infrastructure as well, although I doubt that will be in their remit.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,738

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....
    Yes, it's window dressing, Osborne playing for the headline.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....
    Yes, it's window dressing, Osborne playing for the headline.
    Time will tell. Would you say the OBR has been window dressing?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,738

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....
    Yes, it's window dressing, Osborne playing for the headline.
    Time will tell. Would you say the OBR has been window dressing?
    Pretty much, has it changed anything ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Heir-to-Brown recruits GOATs, but I'm not sure it was a good idea for Brown or for Osborne. Partly because those recruited from Opposition parties or even outside politics do not owe their first loyalties to you so can go off-message (see, for instance, Lords West, Sugar and, erm, Adonis).

    More importantly, however, it will be resented by those passed over on your own side (who, incidentally, will be voting for a new Prime Minister in a couple of years). OGH's OP makes the point Labour luminaries will be weighing up their career prospects. Conservatives will be doing the same.

    As an aside, how difficult would it have been in 2010 to stick Lord Aschroft in charge of some overarching new quango along these lines?

    A rather pathetic attempt at spin there.
    They're in a tricky position as its a Labour idea.....

    The appointment of Adonis to the new infrastructure commission shows the chancellor is so confident politically that he is not averse to stealing ideas from Labour. Ed Miliband pledged to establish an almost identical commission in the Labour manifesto for this year’s general election.

    This was modelled on the Armitt commission established by Ed Balls in 2012, to examine how to speed up infrastructure projects. John Armitt’s work was undermined the following year when Balls questioned the HS2 project, sending Labour’s northern municipal leaders into the arms of Osborne.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/05/lord-adonis-to-resign-labour-whip-and-chair-george-osbornes-infrastructure-body
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    The more sane, intelligent, pragmatic and rational members of the centre left in positions of power and responsibility the better. Good for Adonis not to worry about the headlines. If that's the price Osborne extracted, so what?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....

    It's a coup in the Westmister bubble, outside, who cares ?

    This will really only be more than window dressing if Adonis gets to deliver on a specific agenda, and as we have seen with the GOATs that can lead to a clash with the government of the day as the talents take a policy view rather than a poliitcal one.

    No one will give a fig about the details, but it does play to a 'getting on with the job for the good of the country' theme while others turn a blind eye to abuse & violence.....
    Yes, it's window dressing, Osborne playing for the headline.
    Time will tell. Would you say the OBR has been window dressing?
    Pretty much, has it changed anything ?
    Put the fear of god into Ed Balls who begged they check his sums!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,351
    Surely the point of this new group is to look independent and cross party? It will be looking to provide some sort of stability and long term planning across general elections for things that can't be done in 5 year cycles. It might have been possible for this to be headed by a Tory (although not a serving MP) but this is much better.

    With Osborne there is always a political side and this is a blatant grab for the loyalty and support of the Blairites who do not seem to be welcome in the new, new Labour Party. He has also, like his determined chase for Carney, got the best man for the job. Now if he can just find a role for Mandelson the emptying of talent from Labour will be almost complete.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    I agree with Josias about the need to get on with infrastructure, but it has to be the right infrastructure for the 2020s. Adonis is a bad choice to use as Labour councils will view him as a traitor and Conservative councils view him as "not one of us".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,351
    I think the key to the window dressing point will be whether Osborne is willing and able to commit a capital spend to this body, ideally something like a percentage of GDP, like the aid budget. Long term planning becomes pretty pointless very fast if the money comes and goes. I suspect that is what he will cover in his speech today.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    I expect that at some stage GO will do something about improving access to benefits for the self-employed.

    What's the problem in nabbing sensible, popular policies advocated by your political opponents?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842

    I agree with Josias about the need to get on with infrastructure, but it has to be the right infrastructure for the 2020s. Adonis is a bad choice to use as Labour councils will view him as a traitor and Conservative councils view him as "not one of us".

    Many Labour councils are currently a lot more pragmatic and rational than the national party. They like the idea of more devolved responsibility - see Manchester, for example. The Adonis appointment will be popular with them. Of course, it's unlikely such sensible, grown-up thinking will survive as the Corbyn hordes take over. But there is a window of opportunity.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,351

    I expect that at some stage GO will do something about improving access to benefits for the self-employed.

    What's the problem in nabbing sensible, popular policies advocated by your political opponents?

    They have access to WTC at the moment but it is a nightmare as they can only work out after the event whether they were ever in fact entitled. On the advice of my accountant I applied for and received WTC when I started at the bar. There was a small cashflow advantage but I paid it all back because it turned out I earned too much in the year in question.

    The cashflow advantage was completely overwhelmed by the form filling, correspondence and hassle from the least efficient part of government I have ever come across. They repeatedly threatened me with court action for over a year after the money had already been repaid (something their systems simply did not seem capable of tying up with the account) whilst at the same time sending me absurdly long forms inviting me to apply again!

    Self employed people could do with a simpler and more predictable system which lets them know where they are. Paying back credits, possibly at a time when your income has dipped again, really doesn't help.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    I have been doing the party conference rounds for more than ten years and I have never seen violence and intimidation like that in Manchester.........
    Ironically, given what was happening outside, this conference is looking beyond the converted and trying to attract new supporters – in contrast to last week in Brighton, where Labour preached to the choir. Fringe events and conference stands are not just being run by banks and pearl set sellers (though there are those), but also charities and traditionally left-leaning organisations, who think a conversation is at least worth having. The Conservatives are also launching new campaigns and organisations explicitly aimed at trades unionists and workers. In another contrast to last week, the vast majority of Tory MPs are actually here, whereas many of the best and brightest Labour MPs steered clear of Corbyn’s get together on the beach.


    http://theguideconsultancy.com/news.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    Morning all,

    Not a desperate surprise. Wasn't Adonis SDP at one point? He was also very close to Roy Jenkins in his later life - not exactly a Corbynist. And he loves trains. HS2 here we come.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    How many transformative novelists have there been, in all history? Three or four? The first (identity disputed), then Tolstoy, Joyce, Proust.... ?

    Most novelists work within the form and the genre, and yet plenty of them, like Austen, Dickens, Nabokov, still achieve greatness.

    Transformation, like revolution, is overrated.

    What about Tolkien (fantasy) and Asimov (Sci fi)?

    As a fan of fantasy I appreciate many outside the Sci Fi and Fantasy genre don't respect it as much (whereas I'd prefer it to be considered two genres) but both revolutionised their field. It's hard to imagine a fantasy epic that doesn't have Tolkienesque themes and I'd argue Asimov transformed the Sci Fi genre.
    Tolkein did much to make fantasy mainstream, and spawned a lot of imitators. But, I don't think he was transformative. Much contemporary fantasy writing is just as much influenced by writers like Jack Vance, H P Lovecraft, Robert Howard, Fritz Leiber, IMHO, among Tolkien's contemporaries.

    WRT Sci-Fi, I'm not sure I'd see Asimov as being more influential than say, Frank Herbert or Ray Bradbury.
    Arguably the most influential Sci-Fi writer on today's culture is Timothy Zahn.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    I expect that at some stage GO will do something about improving access to benefits for the self-employed.

    What's the problem in nabbing sensible, popular policies advocated by your political opponents?

    Another idea Osborne could, erm, adapt is income-contingent loans that are only repaid after some agreed criterion is met for start-ups or, on a larger scale, for infrastructure projects.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,236

    I agree with Josias about the need to get on with infrastructure, but it has to be the right infrastructure for the 2020s. Adonis is a bad choice to use as Labour councils will view him as a traitor and Conservative councils view him as "not one of us".

    As SO says, many councils, especially in the north, are massively keen for improved infrastructure. Sheffield are even trying to get the HS2 route diverted into the city centre at Sheffield Victoria. One of my complaints about HS2 is that further expansions to the rail network, such as EW rail, HS3 or any nominal northern extensions to the northeast, have not been planned in conjunction with it.

    The same can be said for many other forms of infrastructure. It's interesting that both energy and housing shall be in the group's remit.

    If Adonis is sensible, he will be asking the cities and towns in the Northern Powerhouse and elsewhere what they see as essential infrastructure to enable growth.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,351
    Dair said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    How many transformative novelists have there been, in all history? Three or four? The first (identity disputed), then Tolstoy, Joyce, Proust.... ?

    Most novelists work within the form and the genre, and yet plenty of them, like Austen, Dickens, Nabokov, still achieve greatness.

    Transformation, like revolution, is overrated.

    What about Tolkien (fantasy) and Asimov (Sci fi)?

    As a fan of fantasy I appreciate many outside the Sci Fi and Fantasy genre don't respect it as much (whereas I'd prefer it to be considered two genres) but both revolutionised their field. It's hard to imagine a fantasy epic that doesn't have Tolkienesque themes and I'd argue Asimov transformed the Sci Fi genre.
    Tolkein did much to make fantasy mainstream, and spawned a lot of imitators. But, I don't think he was transformative. Much contemporary fantasy writing is just as much influenced by writers like Jack Vance, H P Lovecraft, Robert Howard, Fritz Leiber, IMHO, among Tolkien's contemporaries.

    WRT Sci-Fi, I'm not sure I'd see Asimov as being more influential than say, Frank Herbert or Ray Bradbury.
    Arguably the most influential Sci-Fi writer on today's culture is Timothy Zahn.
    Had to google him to be honest. Is this a joke or is he worth a try?

    For me, Neal Stephenson is the most interesting of those still writing, even if he has never quite reached the heights of Snowcrash again.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    Adonis a bit like help for hire.Not quite the major coup as bigged up.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Some of the public probably will pick up on this. Most will never have heard of Lord Adonis but they will note:

    1) someone senior is stepping away from Labour

    2) the Conservatives are reaching out to work with people in other parties

    That's good for the Conservatives on both fronts.

    Labour rightwingers need to understand that their only hope of power or influence in the near future is to work with the Conservatives. They will need to decide for themselves whether that is ethically acceptable.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    No comments on Mark Thatcher being forced to emigrate, or has CCHQ yet to determine the spin line on the new Thatcher biography in the Telegraph?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,236
    SMukesh said:

    Adonis a bit like help for hire.Not quite the major coup as bigged up.

    He is/was the chair of Progress. I doubt he could keep that role, but he's hardly an insignificant figure.

    Labour has lost one of its intellectual giants (*). The problem is they have very few intellectual giants left, and the backwards-looking pygmys are taking over the party.

    (*) And yes, I was saying this long ago.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,351
    antifrank said:

    Some of the public probably will pick up on this. Most will never have heard of Lord Adonis but they will note:

    1) someone senior is stepping away from Labour

    2) the Conservatives are reaching out to work with people in other parties

    That's good for the Conservatives on both fronts.

    Labour rightwingers need to understand that their only hope of power or influence in the near future is to work with the Conservatives. They will need to decide for themselves whether that is ethically acceptable.

    Or they need to seek to replace Labour with their own party. Playing patsy with the Tories is lot safer of course as the SDP example shows.

    What the tories really get out of this is further demolition of the idea that they are some sort of swivel eyed ideologues. As long as they can keep one or two of their membership off the platform they will take another step towards dominating the centre ground.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    How many transformative novelists have there been, in all history? Three or four? The first (identity disputed), then Tolstoy, Joyce, Proust.... ?

    Most novelists work within the form and the genre, and yet plenty of them, like Austen, Dickens, Nabokov, still achieve greatness.

    Transformation, like revolution, is overrated.

    What about Tolkien (fantasy) and Asimov (Sci fi)?

    As a fan of fantasy I appreciate many outside the Sci Fi and Fantasy genre don't respect it as much (whereas I'd prefer it to be considered two genres) but both revolutionised their field. It's hard to imagine a fantasy epic that doesn't have Tolkienesque themes and I'd argue Asimov transformed the Sci Fi genre.
    Tolkein did much to make fantasy mainstream, and spawned a lot of imitators. But, I don't think he was transformative. Much contemporary fantasy writing is just as much influenced by writers like Jack Vance, H P Lovecraft, Robert Howard, Fritz Leiber, IMHO, among Tolkien's contemporaries.

    WRT Sci-Fi, I'm not sure I'd see Asimov as being more influential than say, Frank Herbert or Ray Bradbury.
    Arguably the most influential Sci-Fi writer on today's culture is Timothy Zahn.
    Had to google him to be honest. Is this a joke or is he worth a try?

    For me, Neal Stephenson is the most interesting of those still writing, even if he has never quite reached the heights of Snowcrash again.
    No, not a joke. His Thrawn novels in 1991 picked the Star Wars franchise out of a death spiral which it might never have recovered from. It was the success of the Expanded Universe which led to the new films (love them or loath them) and the tremendous boom in Star Wars with a new generation.

    Before the Zahn novels the merchandise was dwindling, attempts at comics and books were rather unsuccessful (and terrible quality). His books changed that picture and led to where we are today with a potential £3bn movie on the horizon.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PeteWishart: Geez! looks like the Scottish MSM have yet another day of front pages on Michelle. That's now a week There has never been anything like this

    Yes, Pete, there has never been anything like this...
    The SNP’s former spokeswoman for business is facing further questions in a property scandal.

    It is alleged that Michelle Thomson, who won the Edinburgh West seat at the general election in May, took two years to register as the landlord of a house bought in a cut-price deal from a pensioner by Your Property Shop, a company she ran but which is now defunct. If she had let the property in that two-year period while not on the official landlord register, Thomson could have committed an offence which carries a fine of up to £50,000.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4576302.ece

    @blairmcdougall: SNP politician & @bizforscotland founder used Thomson's company fr property deals. But of course no one knew anything http://t.co/k0UUzmTomM
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    edited 2015 05
    SO, do you really think it's acceptable to call Corbyn's supporters, who made up half of labour members, a 'horde' rather than the array of perfectly normal and decent leftish people who merely want a Labour Party with some actual purpose and policies? You seem to have a very bizarre chip on your shoulder which is utterly at odds with the actual facts on the ground, should you actually care to check out a labour constituency meeting at the present time. It's almost like you are completely swallowing the PB Tory line on this. I'm a bit confused about what you actually want from a centre left party, as you seem to basically like and respect the Tories and their policies, without saying you'd vote for them because of unrevealed reasons.
    It's odd, to be honest.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,236
    JWisemann said:

    SO, do you really think it's acceptable to call Corbyn's supporters, who made up half of labour members, a 'horde' rather than the array of perfectly normal and decent leftish people who merely want a Labour Party with some actual purpose and policies? You seem to have a very bizarre chip on your shoulder which is utterly at odds with the actual facts on the ground, should you actually care to check out a labour constituency meeting at the present time. It's almost like you are completely swallowing the PB Tory line on this. I'm a bit confused about what you actually want from a centre left party, as you seem to basically like and respect the Tories and their policies, without saying you'd vote for them because of unrevealed reasons.
    It's odd, to be honest.

    I agree, the scenes yesterday at Manchester make 'horde' seem the wrong word. A 'scrum' of Corbyn supporters, a 'riot' of Corbyn supporters, or a 'stupidity' of Corbyn supporters seem much more suitable collective nouns. ;)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Is it coincidence that most of those who sneer at the idea [of the Northern Powerhouse] as no more than a political gimmick do not themselves live in the north? During the last parliament, Ed Balls upbraided Richard Leese, the Labour leader of Manchester city council, for dealing with Osborne. Balls was rewarded with an earful.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/04/tory-cameron-conference-conservatives
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited 2015 05
    It is as I predicted last night.. lefties smear the departing Lord.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    edited 2015 05
    So will everyone be grabbing their £1155 worth of Lloyds for £1000 then :D

    I certainly will.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,958
    Tories urged to cut pensioner benefits because some won't be around to vote in 2020.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965
    "The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."
    He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'"
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,136
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Dair, although I've since given them away, I read the Thrawn trilogy a couple of times. Rather nicely done. It's stupid, however, that 'officially' Jar Jar Binks exists in the Star Wars universe and Grand Admiral Thrawn does not.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Heir-to-Brown recruits GOATs, but I'm not sure it was a good idea for Brown or for Osborne. Partly because those recruited from Opposition parties or even outside politics do not owe their first loyalties to you so can go off-message (see, for instance, Lords West, Sugar and, erm, Adonis).

    More importantly, however, it will be resented by those passed over on your own side (who, incidentally, will be voting for a new Prime Minister in a couple of years). OGH's OP makes the point Labour luminaries will be weighing up their career prospects. Conservatives will be doing the same.

    As an aside, how difficult would it have been in 2010 to stick Lord Aschroft in charge of some overarching new quango along these lines?

    A rather pathetic attempt at spin there.

    If you think back, I made the same criticism when Brown recruited GOATs. For every one of your opponents you promote, you pass over at least a dozen of your own supporters who could have done the job, and dozens more who think they could.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,351
    JWisemann said:

    SO, do you really think it's acceptable to call Corbyn's supporters, who made up half of labour members, a 'horde' rather than the array of perfectly normal and decent leftish people who merely want a Labour Party with some actual purpose and policies? You seem to have a very bizarre chip on your shoulder which is utterly at odds with the actual facts on the ground, should you actually care to check out a labour constituency meeting at the present time. It's almost like you are completely swallowing the PB Tory line on this. I'm a bit confused about what you actually want from a centre left party, as you seem to basically like and respect the Tories and their policies, without saying you'd vote for them because of unrevealed reasons.
    It's odd, to be honest.

    Can I gently suggest that breaking your posts into short paragraphs might make your contributions a lot more readable?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pulpstar said:

    So will everyone be grabbing their £1155 worth of Lloyds for £1000 then :D

    I certainly will.

    Surely only Labour sells assets too cheaply?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    No comments on Mark Thatcher being forced to emigrate, or has CCHQ yet to determine the spin line on the new Thatcher biography in the Telegraph?

    Nah, just that no one reads the Telegraph any more

    (and that the news is, like, 20 years old)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,351
    Scott_P said:

    @PeteWishart: Geez! looks like the Scottish MSM have yet another day of front pages on Michelle. That's now a week There has never been anything like this

    Yes, Pete, there has never been anything like this...

    The SNP’s former spokeswoman for business is facing further questions in a property scandal.

    It is alleged that Michelle Thomson, who won the Edinburgh West seat at the general election in May, took two years to register as the landlord of a house bought in a cut-price deal from a pensioner by Your Property Shop, a company she ran but which is now defunct. If she had let the property in that two-year period while not on the official landlord register, Thomson could have committed an offence which carries a fine of up to £50,000.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4576302.ece

    @blairmcdougall: SNP politician & @bizforscotland founder used Thomson's company fr property deals. But of course no one knew anything http://t.co/k0UUzmTomM

    Well not since we had fantasy week about a pig's head anyway and that was at least a fortnight ago.

    And this story is based on fact.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,136
    Mr. L, and if the reverse were the case, the government would be attacked for selling something for more than it was worth.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,351

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Dair, although I've since given them away, I read the Thrawn trilogy a couple of times. Rather nicely done. It's stupid, however, that 'officially' Jar Jar Binks exists in the Star Wars universe and Grand Admiral Thrawn does not.

    Its pretty stupid that Jar Jar Binks exists at all if you ask me.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,238
    antifrank said:

    Some of the public probably will pick up on this. Most will never have heard of Lord Adonis but they will note:

    1) someone senior is stepping away from Labour

    2) the Conservatives are reaching out to work with people in other parties

    That's good for the Conservatives on both fronts.

    Labour rightwingers need to understand that their only hope of power or influence in the near future is to work with the Conservatives. They will need to decide for themselves whether that is ethically acceptable.

    correction: none of the public will notice anything. They will hear "Labour...Conservative...infrastructure..." and switch off. Literally. Ofc I am talking about the swayable public. Those who are alive to the nuances will already be committed one way or the other.

    As for the move, well the Graun says it all. "Blair Ally". ie, good riddance: the Labour Party is becoming purer by the day.

    Smaller, perhaps, but purer.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    Osborne truly is awesome.

    He's only 44.

    Not since Alexander the Great has someone so young dominated the world like Osborne is doing so now.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750

    Pulpstar said:

    So will everyone be grabbing their £1155 worth of Lloyds for £1000 then :D

    I certainly will.

    Surely only Labour sells assets too cheaply?
    I was quite sick when I realised the Post Office giveaway was simply a huge rick. This is all about encouraging small share ownership amongst the masses. Anyway the offer of a 5% discount and 1 bonus share for every 10 held after a year is a very nice one.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    @AGKD123: Somehow doubt the people saying we should "understand the reasons behind" spitting on Tory conf. delegates will do the same for Adonis move
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,136
    Mr. L [the other one], I agree.

    The Rogue Squadron mini-series was also a very good addition to the expanded universe.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm struggling to remember - but didn't Alan Milburn also help the Tories/coalition over some issue or other too?

    And of course Matthew Freud. As @DavidL notes, there's Mandy left - and maybe a couple of other Blairites like Blunkett who could be useful.

    As was plain during the Labour leadership contest - there's little talent in Labour as is right now, so any big hitters will pre-Gordon clunking career fist.

    SMukesh said:

    Adonis a bit like help for hire.Not quite the major coup as bigged up.

    He is/was the chair of Progress. I doubt he could keep that role, but he's hardly an insignificant figure.

    Labour has lost one of its intellectual giants (*). The problem is they have very few intellectual giants left, and the backwards-looking pygmys are taking over the party.

    (*) And yes, I was saying this long ago.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,136
    Mr. Eagles, you think Alexander was 44 when he was conquering Persia?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Charles said:

    No comments on Mark Thatcher being forced to emigrate, or has CCHQ yet to determine the spin line on the new Thatcher biography in the Telegraph?

    (and that the news is, like, 20 years old)
    31.......
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,016

    Tories urged to cut pensioner benefits because some won't be around to vote in 2020.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965
    "The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."
    He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'"

    You’d think he’d have wondered if someone might, just might, remind them!
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Osborne truly is awesome.

    He's only 44.

    Not since Alexander the Great has someone so young dominated the world like Osborne is doing so now.

    Not true.

    When Alexander the Great was 33 he cried salt tears because there were no more worlds to conquer. Bristow is only 27.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    The next two to watch are Lords Hutton and West.

    It is hard for them to back Jez's trident/defence policies.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Pulpstar said:

    So will everyone be grabbing their £1155 worth of Lloyds for £1000 then :D

    I certainly will.

    Surely only Labour sells assets too cheaply?
    Of course.They have no.understanding of business or finance and that's why with every Labour administration it's always the Tories who have to come in and clear up the mess.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Dair, although I've since given them away, I read the Thrawn trilogy a couple of times. Rather nicely done. It's stupid, however, that 'officially' Jar Jar Binks exists in the Star Wars universe and Grand Admiral Thrawn does not.

    Its pretty stupid that Jar Jar Binks exists at all if you ask me.
    Wasn't that the Studio marketing department saying 'we need something to appeal to young kids'.....?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,238

    The next two to watch are Lords Hutton and West.

    It is hard for them to back Jez's trident/defence policies.

    They can keep West.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    https://www.gov.uk/lloydsshares plonk your emails in here btw, I suspect the number of people "interested" is going to far exceed the no of shares available by about midday today.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739

    Mr. Eagles, you think Alexander was 44 when he was conquering Persia?

    No. 44 is a young age for someone in politics and he could be around for another decade.

    He was 33 when he became Shadow Chancellor.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PeteWishart: Geez! looks like the Scottish MSM have yet another day of front pages on Michelle. That's now a week There has never been anything like this

    Yes, Pete, there has never been anything like this...

    The SNP’s former spokeswoman for business is facing further questions in a property scandal.

    It is alleged that Michelle Thomson, who won the Edinburgh West seat at the general election in May, took two years to register as the landlord of a house bought in a cut-price deal from a pensioner by Your Property Shop, a company she ran but which is now defunct. If she had let the property in that two-year period while not on the official landlord register, Thomson could have committed an offence which carries a fine of up to £50,000.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4576302.ece

    @blairmcdougall: SNP politician & @bizforscotland founder used Thomson's company fr property deals. But of course no one knew anything http://t.co/k0UUzmTomM
    Well not since we had fantasy week about a pig's head anyway and that was at least a fortnight ago.

    And this story is based on fact.

    Do you think there might be ramifications from this:

    The Law Society and the Crown Office came under heavy fire after it emerged that it took the Law Society four years to hand over evidence of the suspicious deals, which had led to Thomson’s property solicitor Chris Hales being struck off last year.

    The Crown Office ordered a police criminal investigation within six days of receiving the Hales dossier in July, suggesting it was deeply alarmed by the case.


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/04/scotland-legal-bodies-to-discuss-mp-michelle-thomson-suspicious-property-deals

    Or nothing more than sloppy paperwork/follow through?

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Dair, although I've since given them away, I read the Thrawn trilogy a couple of times. Rather nicely done. It's stupid, however, that 'officially' Jar Jar Binks exists in the Star Wars universe and Grand Admiral Thrawn does not.

    Its pretty stupid that Jar Jar Binks exists at all if you ask me.
    Wasn't that the Studio marketing department saying 'we need something to appeal to young kids'.....?
    This was pretty obvious lampshading. Binks was an obvious Lucas invention and the story that the studio wanted a "kid friendly character" was made up to shield him from some of the panning he got.

    Especially as the studio behind the prequel trilogy was Lucasfilm...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,236

    Heir-to-Brown recruits GOATs, but I'm not sure it was a good idea for Brown or for Osborne. Partly because those recruited from Opposition parties or even outside politics do not owe their first loyalties to you so can go off-message (see, for instance, Lords West, Sugar and, erm, Adonis).

    More importantly, however, it will be resented by those passed over on your own side (who, incidentally, will be voting for a new Prime Minister in a couple of years). OGH's OP makes the point Labour luminaries will be weighing up their career prospects. Conservatives will be doing the same.

    As an aside, how difficult would it have been in 2010 to stick Lord Aschroft in charge of some overarching new quango along these lines?

    A rather pathetic attempt at spin there.

    If you think back, I made the same criticism when Brown recruited GOATs. For every one of your opponents you promote, you pass over at least a dozen of your own supporters who could have done the job, and dozens more who think they could.
    Fair enough on the first point: I was only lurking back then and will accept your word.

    For your second point though: tell me one Conservative who has Adonis's track record with infrastructure? The last was probably Heseltine.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,368

    "Smaller, perhaps, but purer."

    Indeed, Mr Topping, they are turning in a younger and smaller brother of the SWP.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Thanks for the linky. Registered!
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.gov.uk/lloydsshares plonk your emails in here btw, I suspect the number of people "interested" is going to far exceed the no of shares available by about midday today.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    PB Meet in Manchester from 4 onwards today

    near Piccadilly Train Station

    If you need any further information email me at

    PBMeet@yahoo.co.uk
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited 2015 05


    Do you think there might be ramifications from this:

    The Law Society and the Crown Office came under heavy fire after it emerged that it took the Law Society four years to hand over evidence of the suspicious deals, which had led to Thomson’s property solicitor Chris Hales being struck off last year.

    The Crown Office ordered a police criminal investigation within six days of receiving the Hales dossier in July, suggesting it was deeply alarmed by the case.


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/04/scotland-legal-bodies-to-discuss-mp-michelle-thomson-suspicious-property-deals

    Or nothing more than sloppy paperwork/follow through?

    So an independent professional body with no links to government took 4 years to report a matter involving someone who had absolutely no links to the SNP and before Yes Scotland even existed.

    Then the Crown Office - a department of the Scottish Government - intimated the matter to the police for investigation in 6 days by which time the individual WAS a member of the SNP and indeed an MP.

    But somehow there is an SNP conspiracy and all the fault of the Scottish Government for delays?

    The funny thing is there is a genuine damaging story here - it's just not related to legal matters. Having a candidate involved in distress purchase property market doesn't fit in with the SNP. That's the story but it's not being told to the public with this concentration on conspiracies most of the tin foil hat brigade would think are ridiculously brittle.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Dair said:

    Having a candidate involved in distress purchase property market doesn't fit in with the SNP. That's the story but it's not being told to the public

    That was the question Ruth asked Nicola at FMQs

    Nicola swerved it
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    George Osborne tweets: Pleased former Labour cabinet minister Andrew Adonis will be National Infrastructure Commission chair.Working together in national interest
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Heir-to-Brown recruits GOATs, but I'm not sure it was a good idea for Brown or for Osborne. Partly because those recruited from Opposition parties or even outside politics do not owe their first loyalties to you so can go off-message (see, for instance, Lords West, Sugar and, erm, Adonis).

    More importantly, however, it will be resented by those passed over on your own side (who, incidentally, will be voting for a new Prime Minister in a couple of years). OGH's OP makes the point Labour luminaries will be weighing up their career prospects. Conservatives will be doing the same.

    As an aside, how difficult would it have been in 2010 to stick Lord Aschroft in charge of some overarching new quango along these lines?

    A rather pathetic attempt at spin there.

    If you think back, I made the same criticism when Brown recruited GOATs. For every one of your opponents you promote, you pass over at least a dozen of your own supporters who could have done the job, and dozens more who think they could.
    This is an important quango or commission, not a post for a politician. May be some donors will get green-eyed but they have no right to any preferment.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Scott_P said:

    Dair said:

    Having a candidate involved in distress purchase property market doesn't fit in with the SNP. That's the story but it's not being told to the public

    That was the question Ruth asked Nicola at FMQs

    Nicola swerved it
    Not really, they both focused on the allegations of illegality. Kezia was the most bizarre as she started with a quote about social justice but then immediately went on to make her question about the crown office and legel situation.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Dair said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    How many transformative novelists have there been, in all history? Three or four? The first (identity disputed), then Tolstoy, Joyce, Proust.... ?

    Most novelists work within the form and the genre, and yet plenty of them, like Austen, Dickens, Nabokov, still achieve greatness.

    Transformation, like revolution, is overrated.

    What about Tolkien (fantasy) and Asimov (Sci fi)?

    As a fan of fantasy I appreciate many outside the Sci Fi and Fantasy genre don't respect it as much (whereas I'd prefer it to be considered two genres) but both revolutionised their field. It's hard to imagine a fantasy epic that doesn't have Tolkienesque themes and I'd argue Asimov transformed the Sci Fi genre.
    Tolkein did much to make fantasy mainstream, and spawned a lot of imitators. But, I don't think he was transformative. Much contemporary fantasy writing is just as much influenced by writers like Jack Vance, H P Lovecraft, Robert Howard, Fritz Leiber, IMHO, among Tolkien's contemporaries.

    WRT Sci-Fi, I'm not sure I'd see Asimov as being more influential than say, Frank Herbert or Ray Bradbury.
    Arguably the most influential Sci-Fi writer on today's culture is Timothy Zahn.
    That's a right load of Cobras :grin:
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    George Osborne tweets: Pleased former Labour cabinet minister Andrew Adonis will be National Infrastructure Commission chair.Working together in national interest

    Not as pleased as many in Labour to be rid of the unelected greasy pole dancer.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Nothing better to do running order

    10.30am: Economy debate, Sajid Javid, the business secretary, John Whittingdale, the culture secretary, and Patrick McLoughlin, the transport secretary.

    11.45am: George Osborne.

    2.30pm: Amber Rudd, the energy secretary, Greg Clark, the communities secretary, and Liz Truss, the environment secretary.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Dair said:

    Not really, they both focused on the allegations of illegality.

    Ruth Davidson "On the basics, of ethics and integrity alone, does this First Minister welcome Michelle Thomson back to her front bench?"

  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    SMukesh said:

    Adonis a bit like help for hire.Not quite the major coup as bigged up.

    It's a flesh wound........ on a squirrel
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    No comments on Mark Thatcher being forced to emigrate, or has CCHQ yet to determine the spin line on the new Thatcher biography in the Telegraph?

    (and that the news is, like, 20 years old)
    31.......
    In my defence I don't read the Telegraph!

    But presumably there was a gap between the events occuring and being reported (hence the news is less than 31 years old...)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    Con home

    The survey finds the Chancellor on 32 per cent, a single point down his rating last month. Fifteen points behind him is Sajid Javid on 17 per cent – again a point down on his September rating. Theresa May is third in the poll, unchanged on 15 per cent.

    Boris Johnson is up two points to 14 per cent, and up a place in the poll to fourth. Liam Fox is fifth, down a point to 12 per cent. Then come Michael Gove on 6 per cent, Jeremy Hunt on 2 per cent and Nicky Morgan, who declared leadership aspirations last week, on 1 per cent.

    http://bit.ly/1L0Ygvj
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,236

    George Osborne tweets: Pleased former Labour cabinet minister Andrew Adonis will be National Infrastructure Commission chair.Working together in national interest

    Not as pleased as many in Labour to be rid of the unelected greasy pole dancer.
    Really?

    It's like Murdoch, isn't it? When someone's supporting Labour, they're brilliant. The moment they dare to move away from the Labour fold (even if the Labour fold moves away from them), they have the full wrath of the party descend on them.

    It's ridiculous. Labour have lost one of their best minds, and they'd be better off asking themselves why Adonis has been replaced with the flaccid intellectual mediocrity of Corbyn and McDonnell.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Dair said:


    Do you think there might be ramifications from this:

    The Law Society and the Crown Office came under heavy fire after it emerged that it took the Law Society four years to hand over evidence of the suspicious deals, which had led to Thomson’s property solicitor Chris Hales being struck off last year.

    The Crown Office ordered a police criminal investigation within six days of receiving the Hales dossier in July, suggesting it was deeply alarmed by the case.


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/04/scotland-legal-bodies-to-discuss-mp-michelle-thomson-suspicious-property-deals

    Or nothing more than sloppy paperwork/follow through?

    So an independent professional body with no links to government
    ....the Law Society’s chief executive, Lorna Jack, took the unusual step of arranging a hurried press conference to defend her organisation’s handling of the affair, and the conduct of Sheila Kirkwood, who is secretary to the society guarantee fund sub-committee which handled the Hales case but had delayed handing the papers over to the Crown Office.

    It emerged that Kirkwood was, with her husband and fellow solicitor Paul Kirkwood, a founder of the pro-independence campaign Lawyers for Yes, and as an active nationalist had attended dinners for Thomson’s pro-independence campaign Business for Scotland. Kirkwood had also “liked” Thomson on her Facebook page.


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/01/law-society-of-scotland-under-pressure-over-mps-suspected-mortgage
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:


    Do you think there might be ramifications from this:

    The Law Society and the Crown Office came under heavy fire after it emerged that it took the Law Society four years to hand over evidence of the suspicious deals, which had led to Thomson’s property solicitor Chris Hales being struck off last year.

    The Crown Office ordered a police criminal investigation within six days of receiving the Hales dossier in July, suggesting it was deeply alarmed by the case.


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/04/scotland-legal-bodies-to-discuss-mp-michelle-thomson-suspicious-property-deals

    Or nothing more than sloppy paperwork/follow through?

    So an independent professional body with no links to government
    ....the Law Society’s chief executive, Lorna Jack, took the unusual step of arranging a hurried press conference to defend her organisation’s handling of the affair, and the conduct of Sheila Kirkwood, who is secretary to the society guarantee fund sub-committee which handled the Hales case but had delayed handing the papers over to the Crown Office.

    It emerged that Kirkwood was, with her husband and fellow solicitor Paul Kirkwood, a founder of the pro-independence campaign Lawyers for Yes, and as an active nationalist had attended dinners for Thomson’s pro-independence campaign Business for Scotland. Kirkwood had also “liked” Thomson on her Facebook page.


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/01/law-society-of-scotland-under-pressure-over-mps-suspected-mortgage
    So, as I said, no links to government.

    45% of Scotland votes Yes, the idea that they are all involved in some grand conspiracy against the Quislings who delayed Scottish Independence is a complete nonsense.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Dair said:

    Dair said:


    Do you think there might be ramifications from this:

    The Law Society and the Crown Office came under heavy fire after it emerged that it took the Law Society four years to hand over evidence of the suspicious deals, which had led to Thomson’s property solicitor Chris Hales being struck off last year.

    The Crown Office ordered a police criminal investigation within six days of receiving the Hales dossier in July, suggesting it was deeply alarmed by the case.


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/04/scotland-legal-bodies-to-discuss-mp-michelle-thomson-suspicious-property-deals

    Or nothing more than sloppy paperwork/follow through?

    So an independent professional body with no links to government
    ....the Law Society’s chief executive, Lorna Jack, took the unusual step of arranging a hurried press conference to defend her organisation’s handling of the affair, and the conduct of Sheila Kirkwood, who is secretary to the society guarantee fund sub-committee which handled the Hales case but had delayed handing the papers over to the Crown Office.

    It emerged that Kirkwood was, with her husband and fellow solicitor Paul Kirkwood, a founder of the pro-independence campaign Lawyers for Yes, and as an active nationalist had attended dinners for Thomson’s pro-independence campaign Business for Scotland. Kirkwood had also “liked” Thomson on her Facebook page.


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/01/law-society-of-scotland-under-pressure-over-mps-suspected-mortgage
    the Quislings who delayed Scottish Independence
    Sums up the Nats nicely.....its all about hate......
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited 2015 05

    George Osborne tweets: Pleased former Labour cabinet minister Andrew Adonis will be National Infrastructure Commission chair.Working together in national interest

    Not as pleased as many in Labour to be rid of the unelected greasy pole dancer.
    Last week he was a good egg Huh? This week not so much? .... Mmmmm and greasy pole dancer? Isn't the common term these days Tory scum?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,047
    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    How many transformative novelists have there been, in all history? Three or four? The first (identity disputed), then Tolstoy, Joyce, Proust.... ?

    Most novelists work within the form and the genre, and yet plenty of them, like Austen, Dickens, Nabokov, still achieve greatness.

    Transformation, like revolution, is overrated.

    What about Tolkien (fantasy) and Asimov (Sci fi)?

    As a fan of fantasy I appreciate many outside the Sci Fi and Fantasy genre don't respect it as much (whereas I'd prefer it to be considered two genres) but both revolutionised their field. It's hard to imagine a fantasy epic that doesn't have Tolkienesque themes and I'd argue Asimov transformed the Sci Fi genre.
    Tolkein did much to make fantasy mainstream, and spawned a lot of imitators. But, I don't think he was transformative. Much contemporary fantasy writing is just as much influenced by writers like Jack Vance, H P Lovecraft, Robert Howard, Fritz Leiber, IMHO, among Tolkien's contemporaries.

    WRT Sci-Fi, I'm not sure I'd see Asimov as being more influential than say, Frank Herbert or Ray Bradbury.
    Arguably the most influential Sci-Fi writer on today's culture is Timothy Zahn.
    Had to google him to be honest. Is this a joke or is he worth a try?

    For me, Neal Stephenson is the most interesting of those still writing, even if he has never quite reached the heights of Snowcrash again.
    Bit long winded, even for the genre, and gimmicky at times for me, but he is unique.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Infrastructure and irony -- everyone agrees we need infrastructure investment but it will not have escaped the Chancellor that the good Lord Adonis might find some shovel-ready projects for some old-fashioned Keynesian stimulus in time for the next election.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,481
    I'm not sure what the point of this new quango is. Or to be more blunt, I don't think there is a point. If the Government haven't already had a serious think about infrastructure at this point, what on earth are we doing?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,497
    So the Daily Mail has played an instrumental part in lumbering us with the "bag tax" yet this morning we have them whining on their front page about "Plastic Bags Chaos"

    Dreadful, dreadful paper....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,136
    edited 2015 05
    Mr. Gin, it does seem a bit tedious. Will the 5p actually make any difference, except for making the supermarkets a bit more money?

    Edited extra bit: more to the point, years ago there was a story about a young lad who invented a way to make them biodegradable.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'd forgotten how much I HATE the Today prog - that hectoring, sneering manner that involves interrupting and assuming all political guests are something on the bottom of their shoes.

    I've turned off the Osborne intv.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited 2015 05
    Poor Adonis ... he is going to get some real crap thrown his way by Labour... just to let the other waverers know what would be their fate..
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,497
    edited 2015 05

    Mr. Gin, it does seem a bit tedious. Will the 5p actually make any difference, except for making the supermarkets a bit more money?

    Edited extra bit: more to the point, years ago there was a story about a young lad who invented a way to make them biodegradable.

    Dunno, but from now on I'll be turning any bags I'm forced to buy inside out... As bags have always been a key part of shops and supermarkets advertising themselves and why should I pay to advertise a supermarket/shop, etc...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,047

    It is as I predicted last night.. lefties smear the departing Lord.

    Bit unnecessary too, as it's not as though he's really departing anywhere, not really.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    He's still a Labour Party member - just working on an indy commission - throwing crap at him seems very silly to me.
    kle4 said:

    It is as I predicted last night.. lefties smear the departing Lord.

    Bit unnecessary too, as it's not as though he's really departing anywhere, not really.
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