Matthew Wilson If you think being advised to pretend your not a conservative in a city is justified in 21st century liberal UK, what Is going on? #CPC15
Are you sure that this is 21st Century Liberal UK?
I presume Corbyn won't be anywhere near manchester attending a protest tomorrow during the Tory conference 'week'
That would be worse in some ways than Gordon's trip to see the troops during the Tory one a few years back
Sky news reports he is attending Manchester tomorrow to address the masses. Thus overthrowing the understanding that leaders do not appear at the other parties locations or if in government announce major policies. The process of government has to go on of course but it's avoided.
Brown appeared in 'Stan of course but that's again the nastiness of the left bubbling to the surface yet again.
The thing about the left is they are so short sighted. If they do this then next year the Labour conference could be wiped off the map. All bets will be off. I sort of hope that wouldn't happen and comparing the two parties it is less likely for the Tories to resort to such but they would feel they had the option even so.
The majority in a big gathering behave poorly. The minority behave far worse.
Edit, And almost no one behaves well.
'The overwhelming majority of people have exercised their democratic right to protest with dignity and good grace.' The quasi-marxist Manchester Police
The people being spat at and called 'tory scum' are in some cases left leaning journalists.
One protester was saying on the news she was demanding this country remain a democracy. Well if that's the case they should respect the fact the country voted for right wing governance just a few months ago.
Except of course they didnt, it is only the completely undemocratic system that gives a minority absolute power. .
A system the majority take no democratic action to alter by voting for parties who will change it. They wouldn't even need a majority of the vote in order to change it, funnily enough, but they, we, have not achieved that yet.
Matthew Wilson If you think being advised to pretend your not a conservative in a city is justified in 21st century liberal UK, what Is going on? #CPC15
"what is going on?"
As I analyzed in the week after the GE, Britain has become an extreme polarized country, geographically and by age. There now exist 2 distinctively different societies with little in common and little interaction between them, each thinking the other is pure evil.
There are 2 different worlds now, a pensioner living in the countryside and a non pensioner living in the cities who have a diametrically opposite view on everything, different behaviour and colliding interests.
So yes if you are a Tory in today's Britain you are no longer welcome in the cities by the average person living there, and if you are a Labourite you are no longer welcome in the countryside by the average person living there.
If you're Labour you're not welcome in Scotland. Or pretty much anywhere south of Chester, outside London.
It seems you are in agreement with my thesis.
I am in agreement, I just think you;re on the wrong side of the dichotomy. Polls show the rightwing vote is now around 50%, and Corbynism will drive kippers to the Tories, in fear of your scummy leftwing rabble.
Well I believe that you are too on the wrong side of the dichotomy, that's the whole point of my 2 societies in one country thesis. And I also agree that Corbyn will drive kippers to the Tories but only if the next election looks close (a problem since not many believe in opinion polls anymore).
Corbyn can neutralize that problem if he addresses the social issues, most people vote UKIP because of social problems like immigration and the culture wars, Corbyn can offer them socialism just without the immigrants.
Seemed to be a lot nastier than 2013 when it was more fun. Last time we got the very catchy "The Tories, putting the N in cuts" but today anyone who looked like a Tory or didn't agree with the protesters was a target.
It felt like they might attack Man City fans for being Tories because they were wearing blue
I've seen worse, and the country has seen worse, the 2011 riots were much worse. People have a very low opinion of journalism world wide, spitting is nothing when people hate your guts anyway, if the protesters were burning the Daily Express building now that would be something I would condemn.
The 2011 riots were hardly the doings of a democratic party that has aspirations to control all aspects of our lives...
People are going to protest when they disagree strongly about something, whether we like it or not.
I believe that is because the average age of Tories is 65, according to the opinion polls. So they are physically incapable of assaulting Labour delegates or protesting generally.
These things always happen because the Left is composed of young people who have high testosterone levels as opposed to high blood pressure pills.
"physically incapable of assaulting Labour delegates or protesting generally."
Do you really think that political protest is some sort of physical completion?
The average age of Tories is clearly much higher than Labour supporters because they are much less likely to shoot themselves in the feet.
The average age of protesters is always young, and yes protesting usually has high chances of getting physical. Watch carefully at the age of the protesters and their need for physical completion:
Matthew Wilson If you think being advised to pretend your not a conservative in a city is justified in 21st century liberal UK, what Is going on? #CPC15
"
So yes if you are a Tory in today's Britain you are no longer welcome in the cities by the average person living there, and if you are a Labourite you are no longer welcome in the countryside by the average person living there.
If you're Labour you're not welcome in Scotland. Or pretty much anywhere south of Chester, outside London.
It seems you are in agreement with my thesis.
I am in agreement, I just think you;re on the wrong side of the dichotomy. Polls show the rightwing vote is now around 50%, and Corbynism will drive kippers to the Tories, in fear of your scummy leftwing rabble.
Well I believe that you are too on the wrong side of the dichotomy, that's the whole point of my 2 societies in one country thesis. And I also agree that Corbyn will drive kippers to the Tories but only if the next election looks close (a problem since not many believe in opinion polls anymore).
Corbyn can neutralize that problem if he addresses the social issues, most people vote UKIP because of social problems like immigration and the culture wars, Corbyn can offer them socialism just without the immigrants.
Kippers hate all the PC stuff too, which is one of Corbyn's core principles, and pro-immigration Corbyn can't do anything for them on that issue (or, now, the EU, since the party forced him to recant)
If Corbyn is anywhere near winning, kippers will flock to the Tories (as you accept).
Besides, and anyway, you seem to accept that the next election is lost and you are building a lefty new party you are comfortable with, not one that might win any time soon.
If you remember since the summer I called Corbyn a low risk low return candidate, he was the best of a bad bunch. He won't win many more votes but he won't lose any either, because he's a polarizing figure that simply solidifies current opinions, so Labour won't collapse or win more that around 1/3 of the vote. So far my prediction has been accurate.
Matthew Wilson If you think being advised to pretend your not a conservative in a city is justified in 21st century liberal UK, what Is going on? #CPC15
"what is going on?"
As I analyzed in the week after the GE, Britain has become an extreme polarized country, geographically and by age. There now exist 2 distinctively different societies with little in common and little interaction between them, each thinking the other is pure evil.
There are 2 different worlds now, a pensioner living in the countryside and a non pensioner living in the cities who have a diametrically opposite view on everything, different behaviour and colliding interests.
So yes if you are a Tory in today's Britain you are no longer welcome in the cities by the average person living there, and if you are a Labourite you are no longer welcome in the countryside by the average person living there.
If you're Labour you're not welcome in Scotland. Or pretty much anywhere south of Chester, outside London.
It seems you are in agreement with my thesis.
I am in agreement, I just think you;re on the wrong side of the dichotomy. Polls show the rightwing vote is now around 50%, and Corbynism will drive kippers to the Tories, in fear of your scummy leftwing rabble.
Well I believe that you are too on the wrong side of the dichotomy, that's the whole point of my 2 societies in one country thesis. And I also agree that Corbyn will drive kippers to the Tories but only if the next election looks close (a problem since not many believe in opinion polls anymore).
Corbyn can neutralize that problem if he addresses the social issues, most people vote UKIP because of social problems like immigration and the culture wars, Corbyn can offer them socialism just without the immigrants.
Matthew Wilson If you think being advised to pretend your not a conservative in a city is justified in 21st century liberal UK, what Is going on? #CPC15
Are you sure that this is 21st Century Liberal UK?
I thought this was Tory England.
You voted for it, Plato.
I thought we were all liberal democrats now, if not Liberal Democrats, even Tories?
The people being spat at and called 'tory scum' are in some cases left leaning journalists.
One protester was saying on the news she was demanding this country remain a democracy. Well if that's the case they should respect the fact the country voted for right wing governance just a few months ago.
Except of course they didnt, it is only the completely undemocratic system that gives a minority absolute power. .
A system the majority take no democratic action to alter by voting for parties who will change it. They wouldn't even need a majority of the vote in order to change it, funnily enough, but they, we, have not achieved that yet.
I wonder why parties that do well out of the current system (and thus are in a position to change it) dont want to change it?
Has anyone ever done a study to prove that sacking a manager actually changes anything ? Some people have becoming seriously rich by being continually sacked.
Except, the last time, how many times has Pardew been sacked ?
The people being spat at and called 'tory scum' are in some cases left leaning journalists.
One protester was saying on the news she was demanding this country remain a democracy. Well if that's the case they should respect the fact the country voted for right wing governance just a few months ago.
Except of course they didnt, it is only the completely undemocratic system that gives a minority absolute power. As polling shows, most UKIP voters want left wing economic policies, if you fancy digging out that canard.
It's futile to pretend that a majority of the voters back the kinds of policies these protectors want. Every poll shows the Conservatives are far preferred to Labour over economic management.
Seemed to be a lot nastier than 2013 when it was more fun. Last time we got the very catchy "The Tories, putting the N in cuts" but today anyone who looked like a Tory or didn't agree with the protesters was a target.
It felt like they might attack Man City fans for being Tories because they were wearing blue
I've seen worse, and the country has seen worse, the 2011 riots were much worse. People have a very low opinion of journalism world wide, spitting is nothing when people hate your guts anyway, if the protesters were burning the Daily Express building now that would be something I would condemn.
The 2011 riots were hardly the doings of a democratic party that has aspirations to control all aspects of our lives...
People are going to protest when they disagree strongly about something, whether we like it or not.
I believe that is because the average age of Tories is 65, according to the opinion polls. So they are physically incapable of assaulting Labour delegates or protesting generally.
These things always happen because the Left is composed of young people who have high testosterone levels as opposed to high blood pressure pills.
"physically incapable of assaulting Labour delegates or protesting generally."
Do you really think that political protest is some sort of physical completion?
The average age of Tories is clearly much higher than Labour supporters because they are much less likely to shoot themselves in the feet.
The average age of protesters is always young, and yes protesting usually has high chances of getting physical. Watch carefully at the age of the protesters and their need for physical completion:
The people being spat at and called 'tory scum' are in some cases left leaning journalists.
One protester was saying on the news she was demanding this country remain a democracy. Well if that's the case they should respect the fact the country voted for right wing governance just a few months ago.
Except of course they didnt, it is only the completely undemocratic system that gives a minority absolute power. As polling shows, most UKIP voters want left wing economic policies, if you fancy digging out that canard.
It's futile to pretend that a majority of the voters back the kinds of policies these protectors want. Every poll shows the Conservatives are far preferred to Labour over economic management.
Vile leftist propaganda from the quasi-marxist manchester police: "Today around 60,000 people took part in a demonstration and I would like to thank them for their cooperation. The overwhelming majority of people have exercised their democratic right to protest with dignity and good grace. The fact that only four arrests have been made throughout the day so far was particularly pleasing.”
60k lefties more law abiding than a few hundred Union flag waving supporters of the UK. Who'd have thunk?
Surely not, we've had PB Tories throughout the thread maintain that the Right don't riot.
Can't possibly be true they were rioting in George Square on the 19th September 2014.
The people being spat at and called 'tory scum' are in some cases left leaning journalists.
One protester was saying on the news she was demanding this country remain a democracy. Well if that's the case they should respect the fact the country voted for right wing governance just a few months ago.
Except of course they didnt, it is only the completely undemocratic system that gives a minority absolute power. .
A system the majority take no democratic action to alter by voting for parties who will change it. They wouldn't even need a majority of the vote in order to change it, funnily enough, but they, we, have not achieved that yet.
I wonder why parties that do well out of the current system dont want to change it?
If the public cared enough about the issue, the parties would get keener about it, no question, and there were parties on offer which did support changed systems or at least discussing it further. One thing I think was a good idea of Labour's as a constitutional convention, which I would hope would have included some talk of electoral reform as well.
Vile leftist propaganda from the quasi-marxist manchester police: "Today around 60,000 people took part in a demonstration and I would like to thank them for their cooperation. The overwhelming majority of people have exercised their democratic right to protest with dignity and good grace. The fact that only four arrests have been made throughout the day so far was particularly pleasing.”
60k lefties more law abiding than a few hundred Union flag waving supporters of the UK. Who'd have thunk?
Surely not, we've had PB Tories throughout the thread maintain that the Right don't riot.
Can't possibly be true they were rioting in George Square on the 19th September 2014.
Given you tell us there are no tories under 75 in Scotland, they can only have been Labourites.
The people being spat at and called 'tory scum' are in some cases left leaning journalists.
One protester was saying on the news she was demanding this country remain a democracy. Well if that's the case they should respect the fact the country voted for right wing governance just a few months ago.
Except of course they didnt, it is only the completely undemocratic system that gives a minority absolute power. As polling shows, most UKIP voters want left wing economic policies, if you fancy digging out that canard.
It's futile to pretend that a majority of the voters back the kinds of policies these protectors want.
That is certainly key for me. Tories will need opposing on many things, but they do have evidenced democratic support of some degree - these types who loudly proclaim how much for the people they are? Not so much. When they and the people converge, it is probably a coincidence.
I presume Corbyn won't be anywhere near manchester attending a protest tomorrow during the Tory conference 'week'
That would be worse in some ways than Gordon's trip to see the troops during the Tory one a few years back
Sky news reports he is attending Manchester tomorrow to address the masses. Thus overthrowing the understanding that leaders do not appear at the other parties locations or if in government announce major policies. The process of government has to go on of course but it's avoided.
Brown appeared in 'Stan of course but that's again the nastiness of the left bubbling to the surface yet again.
The thing about the left is they are so short sighted. If they do this then next year the Labour conference could be wiped off the map. All bets will be off. I sort of hope that wouldn't happen and comparing the two parties it is less likely for the Tories to resort to such but they would feel they had the option even so.
I would love to see my theory being tested by the Tories trying to organise a protest outside the Labour party conference.
If the only people the Tories help are the rich, that's millions of useful idiots though!
The advantage for the Tories is that they don't just appeal to the rich, they appeal to those who aspire to be rich, even if they are 40 year olds struggling and somehow thinking if they get their big break they can get there when reality says they wont.
It's natural for people to both believe they are doing better than they are and massively over-estimate their expectations for the future.
I suspect there are millions of Tory voters who vote Tory on the near impossible hope that at some point they will have sufficient income to benefit from Tory policies but never ever get close to achieving this.
Meanwhile, no-one aspires to be poor. A safety net is harder to vote for than a dream.
The people being spat at and called 'tory scum' are in some cases left leaning journalists.
One protester was saying on the news she was demanding this country remain a democracy. Well if that's the case they should respect the fact the country voted for right wing governance just a few months ago.
Except of course they didnt, it is only the completely undemocratic system that gives a minority absolute power. As polling shows, most UKIP voters want left wing economic policies, if you fancy digging out that canard.
It's futile to pretend that a majority of the voters back the kinds of policies these protectors want. Every poll shows the Conservatives are far preferred to Labour over economic management.
Nope, that's not what the questions ever ask.
Ipsos MORI on 12-15th April had the Conservatives ahead 41-23% as best party to manage the economy.
I presume Corbyn won't be anywhere near manchester attending a protest tomorrow during the Tory conference 'week'
That would be worse in some ways than Gordon's trip to see the troops during the Tory one a few years back
Sky news reports he is attending Manchester tomorrow to address the masses. Thus overthrowing the understanding that leaders do not appear at the other parties locations or if in government announce major policies. The process of government has to go on of course but it's avoided.
Brown appeared in 'Stan of course but that's again the nastiness of the left bubbling to the surface yet again.
The thing about the left is they are so short sighted. If they do this then next year the Labour conference could be wiped off the map. All bets will be off. I sort of hope that wouldn't happen and comparing the two parties it is less likely for the Tories to resort to such but they would feel they had the option even so.
The Conservatives would probably be wiser to observe the convention - thus allowing uninterrupted media coverage of the Labour conference. If they intervene in any way it should only be to put a temporary tax on popcorn sales.
If the only people the Tories help are the rich, that's millions of useful idiots though!
The advantage for the Tories is that they don't just appeal to the rich, they appeal to those who aspire to be rich, even if they are 40 year olds struggling and somehow thinking if they get their big break they can get there when reality says they wont.
It's natural for people to both believe they are doing better than they are and massively over-estimate their expectations for the future.
I suspect there are millions of Tory voters who vote Tory on the near impossible hope that at some point they will have sufficient income to benefit from Tory policies but never ever get close to achieving this.
Meanwhile, no-one aspires to be poor. A safety net is harder to vote for than a dream.
Matthew Wilson If you think being advised to pretend your not a conservative in a city is justified in 21st century liberal UK, what Is going on? #CPC15
"
So yes if you are a Tory in today's Britain you are no longer welcome in the cities by the average person living there, and if you are a Labourite you are no longer welcome in the countryside by the average person living there.
If you're Labour you're not welcome in Scotland. Or pretty much anywhere south of Chester, outside London.
It seems you are in agreement with my thesis.
I am in agreement, I just think you;re on the wrong side of the dichotomy. Polls show the rightwing vote is now around 50%, and Corbynism will drive kippers to the Tories, in fear of your scummy leftwing rabble.
socialism just without the immigrants.
Kippers hate all the PC stuff too, which is one of Corbyn's core principles, and pro-immigration Corbyn can't do anything for them on that issue (or, now, the EU, since the party forced him to recant)
If Corbyn is anywhere near winning, kippers will flock to the Tories (as you accept).
Besides, and anyway, you seem to accept that the next election is lost and you are building a lefty new party you are comfortable with, not one that might win any time soon.
If you remember since the summer I called Corbyn a low risk low return candidate, he was the best of a bad bunch. He won't win many more votes but he won't lose any either, because he's a polarizing figure that simply solidifies current opinions, so Labour won't collapse or win more that around 1/3 of the vote. So far my prediction has been accurate.
Again, oddly, I agree. It's absurdly early, but barring black swans, deep recessions, or Brexit, I reckon Corbyn will win a few seats back in Scotland, and maybe London, but lose few more in the Midlands and elsewhere.
So he will be a net negative, but not massively so. Perhaps a score of seats down on Ed Miliband's performance.
I agree with your prediction, even geographically and in seat numbers, Corbyn will do well in areas where Labour do well already and the Tories will do well in areas where they already do well, not much change in net seats.
We may have different world views but still come to the same conclusion. A coin may have two sides but it's still the same coin.
If you remember since the summer I called Corbyn a low risk low return candidate, he was the best of a bad bunch. He won't win many more votes but he won't lose any either, because he's a polarizing figure that simply solidifies current opinions, so Labour won't collapse or win more that around 1/3 of the vote. So far my prediction has been accurate.
Again, oddly, I agree. It's absurdly early, but barring black swans, deep recessions, or Brexit, I reckon Corbyn will win a few seats back in Scotland, and maybe London, but lose few more in the Midlands and elsewhere.
So he will be a net negative, but not massively so. Perhaps a score of seats down on Ed Miliband's performance.
So far, Corbyn appears to be doing worse in Scotland than he is in England.
I must say I quite enjoyed this 'template Leader's speech':
Friends, our party is the best party because our party has the best values. Uniquely, our party believes in hope, opportunity, decency and prosperity. Unlike NAME OF RIVAL PARTY, who believe in the opposite of all those things. Because – and let’s be frank here – people from NAME OF RIVAL PARTY are rubbish, and you, my audience, are inherently superior to them!
[Pause for standing ovation.]
We are a party that believes in young people. But also in old people. And also in people whose age falls somewhere in between. Because let’s not forget: those people used to be young people. And one day, they will be old people. Unless they die in the meantime. But even if they do, our party will still believe in them.
And that’s why I say to you this. Something something something, our NHS!
Vile leftist propaganda from the quasi-marxist manchester police: "Today around 60,000 people took part in a demonstration and I would like to thank them for their cooperation. The overwhelming majority of people have exercised their democratic right to protest with dignity and good grace. The fact that only four arrests have been made throughout the day so far was particularly pleasing.”
60k lefties more law abiding than a few hundred Union flag waving supporters of the UK. Who'd have thunk?
Surely not, we've had PB Tories throughout the thread maintain that the Right don't riot.
Can't possibly be true they were rioting in George Square on the 19th September 2014.
Given you tell us there are no tories under 75 in Scotland, they can only have been Labourites.
Or LibDems.
So same excuses as the Left. "The troublemakers aren't Labour people, they're SWP/Trots/whatever". "The troublemakers aren't Tories, they're Kippers/BNP/Red Tories".
Still failing to see the difference both in action and excuses.
I think for some of the posters on here it's finally sinking in that they lost in May. It's also slowly dawning on them that they are utterly fecked for 2020, unless someone grabs the wheel from Corbyn. If it wasn't so sad, it would be laugh out loud funny.
I presume Corbyn won't be anywhere near manchester attending a protest tomorrow during the Tory conference 'week'
That would be worse in some ways than Gordon's trip to see the troops during the Tory one a few years back
Sky news reports he is attending Manchester tomorrow to address the masses. Thus overthrowing the understanding that leaders do not appear at the other parties locations or if in government announce major policies. The process of government has to go on of course but it's avoided.
Brown appeared in 'Stan of course but that's again the nastiness of the left bubbling to the surface yet again.
The thing about the left is they are so short sighted. If they do this then next year the Labour conference could be wiped off the map. All bets will be off. I sort of hope that wouldn't happen and comparing the two parties it is less likely for the Tories to resort to such but they would feel they had the option even so.
I would love to see my theory being tested by the Tories trying to organise a protest outside the Labour party conference.
"A spokesperson for Mr Corbyn said: "Jeremy strongly agrees with Frances O'Grady: what has happened is inexcusable and journalists must be able to do their job."
Seemed to be a lot nastier than 2013 when it was more fun. Last time we got the very catchy "The Tories, putting the N in cuts" but today anyone who looked like a Tory or didn't agree with the protesters was a target.
It felt like they might attack Man City fans for being Tories because they were wearing blue
I've seen worse, and the country has seen worse, the 2011 riots were much worse.
I can understand a riot, in a way. A mob can suddenly go nuts, the madness of crowds, stampede behaviour, etc.
What I can't understand is apparently sentient people who think singing "Tory scum" in close harmony, and menacing attendees at a political conference, is going to win over undecided voters.
Undecided voters are also Tory Scum to them.
Indeed, BigRich up thread just also outlined very well the mentality of The left.
The left were defeated in May. The left do not accept the democratic mandate of the ballot box, they never will unless it favours them and when it does no talk of %'s then . This has become for them .....you are either for us or against us.
I am waiting for the more sensible of the Labour Party to condemn what's been happening but as yet nothing. I am very surprised as I though at least some would have done so. There are a number of decent MPs in that party but their collective silence condemns them equally with these on the streets.
The labour left on this forum also refuse any condemnation or even criticism of these thousands of left wing anarchists in Manchester despite their appalling and disgusting behaviour. Meanwhile Corbyn is to overthrow convention and attend Manchester tomorrow to stir the pot further. Is this the kinder politics he referred too? He is against war yet seems happy to allow a war on our streets?
If any one had any doubts previously including the journos.. labour really are now the nasty party in fact I would go further they are the despicable party.
Southam has made his feelings about the current loony Labour party and their hangers on very clear.
Indeed he has and many times. I was not referring to SO though that's the problem of posting you cannot get all in the post. It's the seniors in the party I was referring too.
This is what I was talking about in the previous thread... The Tories are striding confidently forth on deceptively thin ice, having won a wafer-thin majority for the first time in decades, built by a not-to-repeated confluence of lucky circumstances, and admittedly skilful and ruthless exploitation of the above. This luck, combined with current, probably short-lived, turmoil amongst their opponents and the continued blanket support of a fading but still powerful media, is obscuring the fact that the structural weaknesses that saw them out of power for 13 years, and ensured that even on return to power after three terms they couldn't win a majority, have not gone away and are deepening. And to those saying you can add UKIP as conservatives in all but name, it is simply not true - the majority of UKIP voters have left-leaning economic views, where it counts. The simple fact is, unlike the 80s and 90s, where the Tories could court popularity with conjuring tricks funded by mass privatisations, huge technological change and oil revenues, that is a sleight of hand they can't pull off again. Unlike pre-1992, the Tories aren't starting from a large majority. They know this, hence every attempt in the book to rig things in their favour whilst they hold power, with the gagging of pressure groups, removal of opposition funding, stacking the unelected lords whilst reducing the number of elected representatives, denouncing political opponents a threat to security in rhetoric that wouldn't be out of place in Ceacescu's Romania, hobbling freedom of information requests, attacking what is left of the (officially, at least) impartial media, instigating unprecedented assaults on the rights of freedom of association, making massive inroads on individual privacy rights, disembowelling international human rights obligations, and many more craven attacks on everything that might step in the way of their continued power once their real effects of their policies start to make themselves felt. More than ever we need a genuine alternative to be in place ready to attack when the time is right.
Seemed to be a lot nastier than 2013 when it was more fun. Last time we got the very catchy "The Tories, putting the N in cuts" but today anyone who looked like a Tory or didn't agree with the protesters was a target.
It felt like they might attack Man City fans for being Tories because they were wearing blue
I've seen worse, and the country has seen worse, the 2011 riots were much worse.
I can understand a riot, in a way. A mob can suddenly go nuts, the madness of crowds, stampede behaviour, etc.
What I can't understand is apparently sentient people who think singing "Tory scum" in close harmony, and menacing attendees at a political conference, is going to win over undecided voters.
'Sentient people' may be the problem. I've sometimes wondered whether we'd notice if one of our number wasn't strictly sentient. Perhaps the potential problem is a problem in reality, and on a far bigger scale than I could have ever imagined.
Perhaps all the protesters are right - democracy doesn't work. I would certainly admit that I don't really feel myself a fit and proper person to make a judgement about what the best economic plan is. The kicker is that when I speak to other people I realise that I know far more about the issue than they do. There are only a handful of people who I've ever spoken to that I feel have any insight into the issue full stop.
I think I believe that the best possible government system is one where almost everyone gets no say whatsoever. I'm completely certain that this is a system that I could never vote for though.
Omnium,
You make, perhaps, a better philosophical point, than you realise. how can anybody know want is best? No person sourly can hold sufficient knowledge to know what is best for everybody? how can we expect that a majority will know want is best for ever body and therefor how to vote?
What we do know is: I am more likely to know what is best for me than anybody else is, and you are more likely to know want is best for you than anybody else is, and the same goes for everybody else. So if we let people make as many disithions about themselves as possible, without interference from the government, about there personal life's, body's and economic life, we should be on to the best possible outcome
Has anyone ever done a study to prove that sacking a manager actually changes anything ? Some people have becoming seriously rich by being continually sacked.
Except, the last time, how many times has Pardew been sacked ?
Isn't there a socilogical something or other that says that changing things usually has a short-term, beneficial effect.
Comments
I thought this was Tory England.
You voted for it, Plato.
Brown appeared in 'Stan of course but that's again the nastiness of the left bubbling to the surface yet again.
The thing about the left is they are so short sighted. If they do this then next year the Labour conference could be wiped off the map. All bets will be off. I sort of hope that wouldn't happen and comparing the two parties it is less likely for the Tories to resort to such but they would feel they had the option even so.
The quasi-marxist Manchester Police
He won't win many more votes but he won't lose any either, because he's a polarizing figure that simply solidifies current opinions, so Labour won't collapse or win more that around 1/3 of the vote.
So far my prediction has been accurate.
The Tories also know many people will lose out. But their view is: who cares ? They either don't vote or vote Labour.
Wrong: Many are stupid enough to vote Tory.
Except, the last time, how many times has Pardew been sacked ?
Some achievement. We haven't had an election worth the name yet.
Can't possibly be true they were rioting in George Square on the 19th September 2014.
If Manchester police really made the comment Wisemann quoted, it sounds like they have a few questions to answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2015
Also elections coming up in Switzerland, but polls there suggest changes over last time are all within about 1%.
Or LibDems.
It's natural for people to both believe they are doing better than they are and massively over-estimate their expectations for the future.
I suspect there are millions of Tory voters who vote Tory on the near impossible hope that at some point they will have sufficient income to benefit from Tory policies but never ever get close to achieving this.
Meanwhile, no-one aspires to be poor. A safety net is harder to vote for than a dream.
We may have different world views but still come to the same conclusion.
A coin may have two sides but it's still the same coin.
Friends, our party is the best party because our party has the best values. Uniquely, our party believes in hope, opportunity, decency and prosperity. Unlike NAME OF RIVAL PARTY, who believe in the opposite of all those things. Because – and let’s be frank here – people from NAME OF RIVAL PARTY are rubbish, and you, my audience, are inherently superior to them!
[Pause for standing ovation.]
We are a party that believes in young people. But also in old people. And also in people whose age falls somewhere in between. Because let’s not forget: those people used to be young people. And one day, they will be old people. Unless they die in the meantime. But even if they do, our party will still believe in them.
And that’s why I say to you this. Something something something, our NHS!
[Pause for standing ovation.]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/11909127/How-to-write-the-perfect-speech-for-a-political-party-conference.html
New Thread New Thread
Still failing to see the difference both in action and excuses.
So it isn't actually the man himself...
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-10-04/corbyn-spitting-at-journalists-inexcusable/
You make, perhaps, a better philosophical point, than you realise. how can anybody know want is best? No person sourly can hold sufficient knowledge to know what is best for everybody? how can we expect that a majority will know want is best for ever body and therefor how to vote?
What we do know is: I am more likely to know what is best for me than anybody else is, and you are more likely to know want is best for you than anybody else is, and the same goes for everybody else. So if we let people make as many disithions about themselves as possible, without interference from the government, about there personal life's, body's and economic life, we should be on to the best possible outcome