Tom Gordon @HTScotPol 21m21 minutes ago Via her lawyer, @MichelleThomson says she wishes "to clear her name and return as quickly as possible to front line politics"
"Only a complete loony could possibly believe that Trident is a necessary weapon system."
I agree which is why the election of Corbyn was so important. For the first time the question of Trident is going to become a national debate. That several shadow cabinet ministers are in favour doesn't matter a jot. This goes to the heart of progressive politics. Anyone watching the rather pathetic figure of Lord Falconer on Newsnight will know the writing's on the wall.
Precisely. And this isn't just a left-wing view; Peter Oborne was on Radio 4 last night saying exactly the same thing.
Peter Oborne regards the US as our enemy and Islamists as our allies.
On the first I have considerable sympathy. On the second I don't believe your statement adequately represents his opinion, which is that we have the 'wrong Islamists' as our current allies. Saudi Arabian axis rather than Iran/Syria etc. Again there's an argument to be made.
Assad isn't an Islamist. He's a secularist.
I believe before the Arab spring we actually reached out to him, at a similar time to us reaching out to Gadaffi. But he preferred to stay with Iran, who were developing a nuclear weapon.
The Eurosceptic peer said he has taken the role as president of the Conservatives for Britain and will lead a cross-party exit movement ahead of the EU referendum, due to take place by the end of next year.
He's fine to give intellectual credibility but too old to front a campaign - I had to think for a moment to remember who he was, and I shouldn't think most people under 40 will have a clue. Outers desperately need a well-known current politician to lead them who isn't Farage (who is effective but defines Out too narrowly as =UKIP). Boris seems the only plausible possibility that might give them a shot.
FFS Nick
You may not agree with him, but Lawson was one of the seminal figures in late 20 century politics.
I think you were active in politics from the early 80s onwards so I simply don't believe you had "to think for a moment to remember who he is"
Nor do I. He's a wonderful man - great to have on side. I hope he has the energy, but I trust he knows what he's doing. Hopefully he can get an endorsement from Nigella too! (some hopes)
After the UKIP farce, some "Nigella Says NO!!" T-shirts would be a hoot....
What Ukip farce?
The farce of UKIP allowing itself to be the plaything of Farage. Either it's a serious political party that is happy to be putting its name to LEAVE, or it is a joke organisation around the ego of one guy peddling a shoddy sub-FRANKIE SAY T-shirt range on the biggest question the people of the UK have been asked in forty years.
OK so its not actually a farce then, you just don't like Farage or teenagers wearing tshirts. The OUT campaign is going very well, Nigel has made it clear that's his priority right now
I'm afraid quasi-fascist scaremongering on 'security' won't be quite as effective when the British public's desire for war has been permanently dampened by one too many pointless foreign adventures. Especially as it will be made more and more clear to the public that Trident isn't really independent. Without an actual invasion of British territory it probably wouldn't have been been that effective then.
I think the loony right are overestimating the British public's desire to be Airstrip One.
False choice. Moving away from the US does not mean that Britain's defence policy has to mean hiding under a bush, or rolling out the red carpet to Hamas.
Against an increasingly confident Russia, a rising China and various assorted nutcases across the world, Security is increasingly relevant.
Tory policy has been to make us less secure, not more so.
To an extent I would agree. Big changes need to be made to Britain's defence and foreign policies.
However, Labour's policies - to the extent that they can be determined - would be far, far worse.
I'm glad we can find some common ground I'm trying to be constructive these days, life's too short. However my argument would be that Trident does nothing for our security at all. (Of course it is still labour policy to keep this ridiculous white elephant). And a policy where we don't follow the U.S. into every one of their ill-fated geopolitical games would make us infinitely more secure. labour policy will be very pro-armed forces - give them the right tools to face the genuine threats we do face and don't get involved in any more unnecessary wars where our soldiers get killed for spurious purposes.
"I'm trying to be constructive these days"
Then try posting constructively. Going around calling everyone you disagree with neocons isn't exactly constructive.
As for: "labour policy will be very pro-armed forces": Yes, I agree. If Corbyn's past words are anything to go by, he will be very pro- other countries' armed forces.
I ask you the question I asked you at the end of the last thread: what so you see as the UK's desired end-game in Syria, and how do you propose we get there?
people in glass houses , were you not calling people "morons" just the other day
@paulhutcheon: In a statement, Michelle Thomson's lawyer Aamer Anwar advises people to "tread extremely carefully and not prejudice a live investigation".
Mr. Wisemann, your definition of 'loony right' appears to include most of the Shadow Cabinet.
Forget right or left.
Only a complete loony could possibly believe that Trident is a necessary weapon system.
It's not a necessary weapon system.
It's a necessary strategic defence initative
Trident will probably never be used. But our opponents don't definitely know that we probably won't use it.
Hence the danger of Corbyn's statement: in removing uncertainty the only think he achieves is to make the world a more dangerous place
As a mere adjunct of the U.S. deterrent it does no such thing. There is no conceivable scenario where the U.S. would allow us to use it if they weren't going to use theirs. It's another emperor-with-no-clothes fiction that achieves nothing except boost the transatlantic neocon establishment and the coffers of Lockheed Martin.
Ah, yes, the "it's not really independent" thesis so beloved of conspiracy theorists, Putinistas and the loony left.
Is she sure here lawyer is acting for her and not er..
"Anwar, Thomson's legal adviser, said: “Over the last few days individuals have demanded full transparency from the SNP and the First Minister as to what they knew of the detailed nature of Michelle Thomson’s business dealings several years before she became an MP – the simple answer is none at all."
Is she sure here lawyer is acting for her and not er..
"Anwar, Thomson's legal adviser, said: “Over the last few days individuals have demanded full transparency from the SNP and the First Minister as to what they knew of the detailed nature of Michelle Thomson’s business dealings several years before she became an MP – the simple answer is none at all."
Tom Gordon @HTScotPol 21m21 minutes ago Via her lawyer, @MichelleThomson says she wishes "to clear her name and return as quickly as possible to front line politics"
You might be 56 again Dair ...
If I was playing a word association game, and someone put forward "Aamer Anwar", my associated word would be "guilty".
Tom Gordon @HTScotPol 21m21 minutes ago Via her lawyer, @MichelleThomson says she wishes "to clear her name and return as quickly as possible to front line politics"
You might be 56 again Dair ...
If I was playing a word association game, and someone put forward "Aamer Anwar", my associated word would be "guilty".
One of Britain's biggest trade unions has openly questioned whether Jeremy Corbyn is fit to be Prime Minister after he vowed never to use Britain's nuclear weapons.
Sir Paul Kenny, the general secretary of the GMB, suggested 'somebody else should be given the nuclear button' if Mr Corbyn could not face up to the responsibilities of high office.
Is she sure here lawyer is acting for her and not er..
"Anwar, Thomson's legal adviser, said: “Over the last few days individuals have demanded full transparency from the SNP and the First Minister as to what they knew of the detailed nature of Michelle Thomson’s business dealings several years before she became an MP – the simple answer is none at all."
The SNP made Thomson their spokesperson for Business, Innovation and Skills but claim they knew nothing about her business dealings. The SNP are either liars, incompetents or both. My guess is that they're both.
"I believe before the Arab spring we actually reached out to him, at a similar time to us reaching out to Gadaffi. But he preferred to stay with Iran, who were developing a nuclear weapon"
We have never 'reached out' to Assad. It's impossible while Israel occupies large swathes of Syrian land and Israel has an almost complete veto on our Middle-Eastern policy. This is why we are faced with the counter intuitive situation of having as our ally one of the most brutal and barbaric theocracies as our number one ally and several secular and relatively progressive states as avowed enemies.
The Eurosceptic peer said he has taken the role as president of the Conservatives for Britain and will lead a cross-party exit movement ahead of the EU referendum, due to take place by the end of next year.
He's fine to give intellectual credibility but too old to front a campaign - I had to think for a moment to remember who he was, and I shouldn't think most people under 40 will have a clue. Outers desperately need a well-known current politician to lead them who isn't Farage (who is effective but defines Out too narrowly as =UKIP). Boris seems the only plausible possibility that might give them a shot.
FFS Nick
You may not agree with him, but Lawson was one of the seminal figures in late 20 century politics.
I think you were active in politics from the early 80s onwards so I simply don't believe you had "to think for a moment to remember who he is"
Nor do I. He's a wonderful man - great to have on side. I hope he has the energy, but I trust he knows what he's doing. Hopefully he can get an endorsement from Nigella too! (some hopes)
After the UKIP farce, some "Nigella Says NO!!" T-shirts would be a hoot....
What Ukip farce?
The farce of UKIP allowing itself to be the plaything of Farage. Either it's a serious political party that is happy to be putting its name to LEAVE, or it is a joke organisation around the ego of one guy peddling a shoddy sub-FRANKIE SAY T-shirt range on the biggest question the people of the UK have been asked in forty years.
OK so its not actually a farce then, you just don't like Farage or teenagers wearing tshirts. The OUT campaign is going very well, Nigel has made it clear that's his priority right now
Would that be Nigel LAWSON? Lawson has gravitas. Lawson can front the campaign. Lawson can deal with the press. Lawson can deliver the campaign speeches.
Farage can come on at half time in his clown shoes to throw some custard pies around.
The Eurosceptic peer said he has taken the role as president of the Conservatives for Britain and will lead a cross-party exit movement ahead of the EU referendum, due to take place by the end of next year.
He's fine to give intellectual credibility but too old to front a campaign - I had to think for a moment to remember who he was, and I shouldn't think most people under 40 will have a clue. Outers desperately need a well-known current politician to lead them who isn't Farage (who is effective but defines Out too narrowly as =UKIP). Boris seems the only plausible possibility that might give them a shot.
FFS Nick
You may not agree with him, but Lawson was one of the seminal figures in late 20 century politics.
I think you were active in politics from the early 80s onwards so I simply don't believe you had "to think for a moment to remember who he is"
Nor do I. He's a wonderful man - great to have on side. I hope he has the energy, but I trust he knows what he's doing. Hopefully he can get an endorsement from Nigella too! (some hopes)
After the UKIP farce, some "Nigella Says NO!!" T-shirts would be a hoot....
What Ukip farce?
The farce of UKIP allowing itself to be the plaything of Farage. Either it's a serious political party that is happy to be putting its name to LEAVE, or it is a joke organisation around the ego of one guy peddling a shoddy sub-FRANKIE SAY T-shirt range on the biggest question the people of the UK have been asked in forty years.
OK so its not actually a farce then, you just don't like Farage or teenagers wearing tshirts. The OUT campaign is going very well, Nigel has made it clear that's his priority right now
Would that be Nigel LAWSON? Lawson has gravitas. Lawson can front the campaign. Lawson can deal with the press. Lawson can deliver the campaign speeches.
Farage can come on at half time in his clown shoes to throw some custard pies around.
"I believe before the Arab spring we actually reached out to him, at a similar time to us reaching out to Gadaffi. But he preferred to stay with Iran, who were developing a nuclear weapon"
We have never 'reached out' to Assad. It's impossible while Israel occupies large swathes of Syrian land and Israel has an almost complete veto on our Middle-Eastern policy. This is why we are faced with the counter intuitive situation of having as our ally one of the most brutal and barbaric theocracies as our number one ally and several secular and relatively progressive states as avowed enemies.
Not quite up on your cold war political history, are you Roger?
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
The SNP can absorb the loss of Michelle Thomson, if that is what transpires. They might even win the by-election. Indeed they could be up to 57 MPs by early next year.
But any further similar losses would be potentially very damaging. I expect all the new intake are being questioned a lot more thoroughly now than they were in 2014.
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Good morning all. Far East politically incorrect? Feck me, I'll have to update my manual of progressive writing skills. I had no idea. What's the word on the Near East? Still OK?
Mr. Palmer, that's utter nonsense, and you must surely know it.
He's on the record saying the result of a vote to leave should be renegotiation. That's a ridiculous, contemptible, untenable position.
Yes, I agree. I yield to nobody in my low opinion of Boris. But I'm not talking about what you and I think, but about what Boris's fans think. They don't (IMO) in general follow these random statements that he makes with critical attention, they just think "Boris is sounding as though he might vote no, maybe I should too".
Or......0.4% of annual UK Government spending..... "
Or £3,25 billion a year for the next 35 years for a weapon that can never be used unless we accept our own destruction....As a marketing person wouldn't you find that a tricky sell?
I am not sure our politics is mature enough to have a genuine debate on Trident. The positions are entrenched on either side.
Given the £100bn price tag alone, we should seriously consider what a post Trident Britain might look like.
The problem is one of the sides is much smaller than the other
You could have said exactly the same about Scottish Independence or EU Membership before those debates became focused in the public mind.
Similar considerations should be made by Monarchists.
Mr Dair, you'd think labour would be the party to oppose trident but they clearly aren't going to. Who does that leave?
It may be important to you and other Scots but the vast majority of the rest of the UK aren't fussed. Scottish independence is important to the Scots, nobody else cares
I am quite hopeful that the 2016 SNP Manifesto will include, on the list of "trigger points" for the Second Referendum : -
4. Were the Untied Kingdom Government to commission a replacement for Trident and intend to base the system in Scotland.
Tick tock.
Since it was in the manifesto of the party which won the election why would it be a "trigger" and not just an "excuse".
Since the SNP signed the Edinburgh Agreement committing to honour the outcome of the last "once in a generation" referendum, I doubt you'll get Westminster agreement to another......
I've never heard of Far East being considered doubleplusungood. I have heard Americans condemn the term 'oriental' when used about people [but not objects].
Or......0.4% of annual UK Government spending..... "
Or £3,25 billion a year for the next 35 years for a weapon that can never be used unless we accept our own destruction....As a marketing person wouldn't you find that a tricky sell?
I don't really care about Trident one way or another. I think it's probably our annual membership fee for retaining a seat on the Security Council. Whether that's good value or not, I genuinely can't decide.
Tom Gordon @HTScotPol 21m21 minutes ago Via her lawyer, @MichelleThomson says she wishes "to clear her name and return as quickly as possible to front line politics"
Or......0.4% of annual UK Government spending..... "
Or £3,25 billion a year for the next 35 years for a weapon that can never be used unless we accept our own destruction....As a marketing person wouldn't you find that a tricky sell?
As a marketing person that's not how I'd sell it.......
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Since when has 'Far East' been politically incorrect? Surely it's just a recognition of the fact that the prime meridian runs through Europe and that the Far East is at the eastern most end of the Eurasian continent, beyond which lies ocean as far as the international date line, the odd island aside?
Or......0.4% of annual UK Government spending..... "
Or £3,25 billion a year for the next 35 years for a weapon that can never be used unless we accept our own destruction....As a marketing person wouldn't you find that a tricky sell?
'Defensive' and 'Offensive'. Compare and contrast.
As for marketing the largely unusable, some of your younger, more talented colleagues are clearly making fortunes churning out promotional films advertising all manner of insurance products, so it's clearly very easy.
I'm afraid quasi-fascist scaremongering on 'security' won't be quite as effective when the British public's desire for war has been permanently dampened by one too many pointless foreign adventures. Especially as it will be made more and more clear to the public that Trident isn't really independent. Without an actual invasion of British territory it probably wouldn't have been been that effective then.
I think the loony right are overestimating the British public's desire to be Airstrip One.
False choice. Moving away from the US does not mean that Britain's defence policy has to mean hiding under a bush, or rolling out the red carpet to Hamas.
Against an increasingly confident Russia, a rising China and various assorted nutcases across the world, Security is increasingly relevant.
Tory policy has been to make us less secure, not more so.
To an extent I would agree. Big changes need to be made to Britain's defence and foreign policies.
However, Labour's policies - to the extent that they can be determined - would be far, far worse.
I'm glad we can find some common ground I'm trying to be constructive these days, life's too short. However my argument would be that Trident does nothing for our security at all. (Of course it is still labour policy to keep this ridiculous white elephant). And a policy where we don't follow the U.S. into every one of their ill-fated geopolitical games would make us infinitely more secure. labour policy will be very pro-armed forces - give them the right tools to face the genuine threats we do face and don't get involved in any more unnecessary wars where our soldiers get killed for spurious purposes.
"I'm trying to be constructive these days"
Then try posting constructively. Going around calling everyone you disagree with neocons isn't exactly constructive.
As for: "labour policy will be very pro-armed forces": Yes, I agree. If Corbyn's past words are anything to go by, he will be very pro- other countries' armed forces.
I ask you the question I asked you at the end of the last thread: what so you see as the UK's desired end-game in Syria, and how do you propose we get there?
people in glass houses , were you not calling people "morons" just the other day
I suggest you re-read the thread, ELIZA.
I see OK for you to insult and denigrate , but not for non Tories, I get it.
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Since when has 'Far East' been politically incorrect? Surely it's just a recognition of the fact that the prime meridian runs through Europe and that the Far East is at the eastern most end of the Eurasian continent, beyond which lies ocean as far as the international date line, the odd island aside?
It's drilled into us to use "Pacific Rim" - Far East apparently has the implication that the world revolves around Europe / east coast US.
Though I understand that China's name in Chinese translates as "central country", so perhaps this tendency to think the world revolves around us is not unique to us.
"I believe before the Arab spring we actually reached out to him, at a similar time to us reaching out to Gadaffi. But he preferred to stay with Iran, who were developing a nuclear weapon"
We have never 'reached out' to Assad. It's impossible while Israel occupies large swathes of Syrian land and Israel has an almost complete veto on our Middle-Eastern policy. This is why we are faced with the counter intuitive situation of having as our ally one of the most brutal and barbaric theocracies as our number one ally and several secular and relatively progressive states as avowed enemies.
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Since when has 'Far East' been politically incorrect? Surely it's just a recognition of the fact that the prime meridian runs through Europe and that the Far East is at the eastern most end of the Eurasian continent, beyond which lies ocean as far as the international date line, the odd island aside?
It's drilled into us to use "Pacific Rim" - Far East apparently has the implication that the world revolves around Europe / east coast US.
Though I understand that China's name in Chinese translates as "central country", so perhaps this tendency to think the world revolves around us is not unique to us.
Surely Pacific rim includes the west coast of the US?
I avoid "Far east" simply because it doesn't translate well (Chinese correspondents have taken it to mean east of them, for example).
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Since when has 'Far East' been politically incorrect? Surely it's just a recognition of the fact that the prime meridian runs through Europe and that the Far East is at the eastern most end of the Eurasian continent, beyond which lies ocean as far as the international date line, the odd island aside?
It's drilled into us to use "Pacific Rim" - Far East apparently has the implication that the world revolves around Europe / east coast US.
Though I understand that China's name in Chinese translates as "central country", so perhaps this tendency to think the world revolves around us is not unique to us.
Even those lazy Southern Europeans think that, what with the Mediterranean Sea.
I'm afraid quasi-fascist scaremongering on 'security' won't be quite as effective when the British public's desire for war has been permanently dampened by one too many pointless foreign adventures. Especially as it will be made more and more clear to the public that Trident isn't really independent. Without an actual invasion of British territory it probably wouldn't have been been that effective then.
I think the loony right are overestimating the British public's desire to be Airstrip One.
False choice. Moving away from the US does not mean that Britain's defence policy has to mean hiding under a bush, or rolling out the red carpet to Hamas.
Against an increasingly confident Russia, a rising China and various assorted nutcases across the world, Security is increasingly relevant.
Tory policy has been to make us less secure, not more so.
To an extent I would agree. Big changes need to be made to Britain's defence and foreign policies.
However, Labour's policies - to the extent that they can be determined - would be far, far worse.
I'm glad we can find some common ground I'm trying to be constructive these days, life's too short. However my argument would be that Trident does nothing for our security at all. (Of course it is still labour policy to keep this ridiculous white elephant). And a policy where we don't follow the U.S. into every one of their ill-fated geopolitical games would make us infinitely more secure. labour policy will be very pro-armed forces - give them the right tools to face the genuine threats we do face and don't get involved in any more unnecessary wars where our soldiers get killed for spurious purposes.
"I'm trying to be constructive these days"
Then try posting constructively. Going around calling everyone you disagree with neocons isn't exactly constructive.
As for: "labour policy will be very pro-armed forces": Yes, I agree. If Corbyn's past words are anything to go by, he will be very pro- other countries' armed forces.
I ask you the question I asked you at the end of the last thread: what so you see as the UK's desired end-game in Syria, and how do you propose we get there?
people in glass houses , were you not calling people "morons" just the other day
I suggest you re-read the thread, ELIZA.
I see OK for you to insult and denigrate , but not for non Tories, I get it.
Again, I suggest you re-read the thread to see what I was responding to.
Mr. Antifrank, I've heard that Chinese name point as well. Far East is fine.
It makes sense for every country to think of itself centrally. Consider the first explorers and map-makers. Home is bound to be in the middle, and you define other things by how far east, west, north and south they are.
For my father, one of CND’s early founders, apocalypse was so imminent that he had to turn the car round on a holiday to Wales and go home to collect the large jar of suicide pills he kept for the whole family, in case of nuclear attack.
"Not quite up on your cold war political history, are you Roger? "
I'm sure not but anything in particular in mind?
Putin has an historical context of cold war proxies for his current actions, albeit Gorby put an end to the main association decades ago. He can hark back to the glory days of the Soviet Union by wading into the M-E on behalf of (an) Assad.
That association while not pre-dating the creation of Israel, certainly arose before the actions of Israel you mention are the reason we can't do business with Assad (who in any case spurned even Bill's overture).
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Since when has 'Far East' been politically incorrect? Surely it's just a recognition of the fact that the prime meridian runs through Europe and that the Far East is at the eastern most end of the Eurasian continent, beyond which lies ocean as far as the international date line, the odd island aside?
It's drilled into us to use "Pacific Rim" - Far East apparently has the implication that the world revolves around Europe / east coast US.
Though I understand that China's name in Chinese translates as "central country", so perhaps this tendency to think the world revolves around us is not unique to us.
- Our own world does revolve around us. - Far East is, in longitudinal terms, accurate wherever you're based. - 'Pacific rim' could equally well relate to Chile as China (and sounds vaguely rude) - Who exactly is drilling it into you to use inaccurate terms in preference to well-established and appropriate ones?
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Since when has 'Far East' been politically incorrect? Surely it's just a recognition of the fact that the prime meridian runs through Europe and that the Far East is at the eastern most end of the Eurasian continent, beyond which lies ocean as far as the international date line, the odd island aside?
It's drilled into us to use "Pacific Rim" - Far East apparently has the implication that the world revolves around Europe / east coast US.
Though I understand that China's name in Chinese translates as "central country", so perhaps this tendency to think the world revolves around us is not unique to us.
There was a website I saw a few years back that featured maps from around the world, and many feature the 'home' country in the centre of the map in terms of longitude. Although it gets hard for American countries to do it without chopping through the middle of Eurasia.
For my father, one of CND’s early founders, apocalypse was so imminent that he had to turn the car round on a holiday to Wales and go home to collect the large jar of suicide pills he kept for the whole family, in case of nuclear attack.
It is a remarkable vignette. I look forward to SeanT's dramatisation of it later.
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Since when has 'Far East' been politically incorrect? Surely it's just a recognition of the fact that the prime meridian runs through Europe and that the Far East is at the eastern most end of the Eurasian continent, beyond which lies ocean as far as the international date line, the odd island aside?
It's drilled into us to use "Pacific Rim" - Far East apparently has the implication that the world revolves around Europe / east coast US.
Though I understand that China's name in Chinese translates as "central country", so perhaps this tendency to think the world revolves around us is not unique to us.
- Who exactly is drilling it into you to use inaccurate terms in preference to well-established and appropriate ones?
Presumably it's PC nonsense at his law firm, rather than general use.
For my father, one of CND’s early founders, apocalypse was so imminent that he had to turn the car round on a holiday to Wales and go home to collect the large jar of suicide pills he kept for the whole family, in case of nuclear attack.
Please don't.
The last thing I want is to start feeling sorry for Polly on account of her dysfunctional and traumatic childhood.
"Only a complete loony could possibly believe that Trident is a necessary weapon system."
I agree which is why the election of Corbyn was so important. For the first time the question of Trident is going to become a national debate. That several shadow cabinet ministers are in favour doesn't matter a jot. This goes to the heart of progressive politics. Anyone watching the rather pathetic figure of Lord Falconer on Newsnight will know the writing's on the wall.
Precisely. And this isn't just a left-wing view; Peter Oborne was on Radio 4 last night saying exactly the same thing.
Peter Oborne regards the US as our enemy and Islamists as our allies.
On the first I have considerable sympathy. On the second I don't believe your statement adequately represents his opinion, which is that we have the 'wrong Islamists' as our current allies. Saudi Arabian axis rather than Iran/Syria etc. Again there's an argument to be made.
Assad isn't an Islamist. He's a secularist.
I believe before the Arab spring we actually reached out to him, at a similar time to us reaching out to Gadaffi. But he preferred to stay with Iran, who were developing a nuclear weapon.
Yes, I'm aware of that, I used the term because it was the initial one used. What do you mean by 'we', and what form did this 'reaching out' take?
As a Northern monkey who moved to London, I can say the MASH once again have got it spot on.
A NORTHERN man has left a trail of terror across London by attempting to interact socially with everyone he meets.
Stephen Malley has left residents of the capital traumatised by his relentless onslaught of cheerful chat and maintained eye contact.
Euston ticket office operative Julian Cook said: “I pushed his Travelcard at him while staring fixedly downward but instead of scurrying off, head bowed in shame, he just stood there.
“I realised that his earlier remark about London attractions was not addressed to a Bluetooth headset but to me, and that he actually expected an answer.
“I closed my position immediately and have an appointment with the trauma counsellor.”
Roger touches on a point that has been puzzling me this morning: why is "Far East" politically incorrect (implying the world is centred on Europe) but "Middle East" entirely OK?
Since when has 'Far East' been politically incorrect? Surely it's just a recognition of the fact that the prime meridian runs through Europe and that the Far East is at the eastern most end of the Eurasian continent, beyond which lies ocean as far as the international date line, the odd island aside?
It's drilled into us to use "Pacific Rim" - Far East apparently has the implication that the world revolves around Europe / east coast US.
Though I understand that China's name in Chinese translates as "central country", so perhaps this tendency to think the world revolves around us is not unique to us.
Even those lazy Southern Europeans think that, what with the Mediterranean Sea.
The world revolves around the Central Kingdom People's republic. That is the REAL China
For my father, one of CND’s early founders, apocalypse was so imminent that he had to turn the car round on a holiday to Wales and go home to collect the large jar of suicide pills he kept for the whole family, in case of nuclear attack.
My sister and I had more-or-less the same. A large jar of suicide pills kept in the car in case my dad tried to take us on holiday to Wales.
For my father, one of CND’s early founders, apocalypse was so imminent that he had to turn the car round on a holiday to Wales and go home to collect the large jar of suicide pills he kept for the whole family, in case of nuclear attack.
My sister and I had more-or-less the same. A large jar of suicide pills kept in the car in case my dad tried to take us on holiday to Wales.
Speaking of China, I'm re-reading Three Kingdoms now. Perhaps 1/3 of the way in (on page eight hundred and something). Cao Cao is very interesting character, almost like a Chinese Julius Caesar.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, that's depressing, yet not necessarily surprising.
For my father, one of CND’s early founders, apocalypse was so imminent that he had to turn the car round on a holiday to Wales and go home to collect the large jar of suicide pills he kept for the whole family, in case of nuclear attack.
My sister and I had more-or-less the same. A large jar of suicide pills kept in the car in case my dad tried to take us on holiday to Wales.
For my father, one of CND’s early founders, apocalypse was so imminent that he had to turn the car round on a holiday to Wales and go home to collect the large jar of suicide pills he kept for the whole family, in case of nuclear attack.
My sister and I had more-or-less the same. A large jar of suicide pills kept in the car in case my dad tried to take us on holiday to Wales.
Mr. Antifrank, I've heard that Chinese name point as well. Far East is fine.
It makes sense for every country to think of itself centrally. Consider the first explorers and map-makers. Home is bound to be in the middle, and you define other things by how far east, west, north and south they are.
The Mappa Mundi in Hereford Cathedral shows the world centered on Jerusalem. East is at the top. Those crazy medievals.
Speaking of China, I'm re-reading Three Kingdoms now. Perhaps 1/3 of the way in (on page eight hundred and something). Cao Cao is very interesting character, almost like a Chinese Julius Caesar.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, that's depressing, yet not necessarily surprising.
Depressing thing is, it is starting over here as well, if this is what Scotland is going to become, then Independence can't come soon enough as we will be free of such a backwards people.
CONCERN has been raised over a new religious pressure group which is being proposed by MSPs with the backing of an exclusively Christian organisation that aims to "heal wounds inflicted by atheism".
Three of the five proposed MSPs who will join the group backed a parliamentary motion asserting that science could not disprove that God created the world in six days.
A proposal will go before a Holyrood committee today to win approval for a cross-party group on religious freedom, saying the new body would be open to members of all faiths and none.
My sister and I had more-or-less the same. A large jar of suicide pills kept in the car in case my dad tried to take us on holiday to Wales.
LOL!
I remember a holiday which my then girlfriend (now wife) and I took in Wales in 1976. It was actually wonderful - walking on the Brecon Beacons in bright, warm sunshine in that exceptional summer - but we did have a bit of trouble buying provisions. I remember the looks of utter confusion in the local greengrocer's when we asked if they had any parsley. Eventually after much scurrying around they produced what looked like a pre-war packet of Paxo Parsley Stuffing.
That wasn't just The National, that's exactly how the BBC reported it too.
Obviously that spin didn't come from the police - shoddy reporting x 2.
Ah, now it's the 'Scotch media is shite' pointy cap. I'm sure you've plenty of pointy hats in the wardrobe.
You are defending two outlets which have posted something unsubstantiated which turns out to be untrue less than 24hrs later ?
Right.
Hey, you were wrong. Live with it.
They were wrong - however the Scottish Sun and Scottish Sunday Times have done an excellent job in exposing the investigation into a SNP MP - despite the YES leanings of their owner..
NB of betting interest, though I wouldn't recommend a bet just yet. The SNP:Green gambit is looking a fair bit less likely, but the chances of the Tories coming second (3/1 at Ladbrokes) are seemingly on the rise.
John Mason, who represents Glasgow Shettleston in the Scottish Parliament, has lodged a motion at Holyrood calling for creationism to have a place in schools.
I've never heard of Far East being considered doubleplusungood. I have heard Americans condemn the term 'oriental' when used about people [but not objects].
The Yanks can bugger off. All east and west points of reference are relative to the Greenwich meridian. Just get used to the fact that London is the starting point for all things. You can claim your independence, but some things you just have to buy into... the supremacy of London when navigating the planet is just one of those.
I sat in a meeting in Beirut (Shampoo NOT tampons) discussing which of the P+G execs could come to London for the telecine. The brand manager was Palestinian so couldn't get a visa. The American product manager baded in Jeddah wasn't allowed to travel at that time because of tensions in the area (P+G looked after their American staff). I then suggested getting the TK done in Israel.....
Impossible!
Anyone -incluing me-with an Israeli stamp in our passport wouldn't be allowed back into Lebanon and the Palestinian based in Beirut couldn't get a visa anyway......
On Syria, I think Bluerog's analysis is too complicated. Putin simply wants to prove he's a good ally. Ally with him and he sticks to you through thick and thin, regardless of your revolting atrocities, and if necessary intervenes to bomb your opponents. Ally with the West and who knows what they'll do, if anything? Perhaps they'll even conspire to bring you down when they find a better option (cf. Gaddafi, who we were intermittently friendly with when he agreed to give up WMD).
I'm not recommending that we adopt Putin's policy - a policy that we will be supportive without direct intervention and conditional on human rights is consistent and quite possibly a better one. But for embattled dictators, Putin's simple approach has obvious appeal.
And your analysis is far too simple and one-dimensional. Why would Putin ally himself with Assad in the first place? What does he want out of this? What is his end-game?
Russian strategy doesn't change.
She wants a buffer of compliant and/or destabilised countries around her borders. Syria fits reasonably well there with the added bonus of military bases.
It might also send a signal to Turkey that the Turks best defence is served by Russia and not NATO - especially as Turkish Accession to the EU now seems less likely than ever.
Is it not as simple as the port access Syria has ?
This is overstated, especially as the Russians now have a warm weather port inside their sovereign territory (at Sevastopol). It's no doubt helpful.
Sevastopol isn't sovereign Russian territory. It's leased from Ukraine.
I've never heard of Far East being considered doubleplusungood. I have heard Americans condemn the term 'oriental' when used about people [but not objects].
The Yanks can bugger off. All east and west points of reference are relative to the Greenwich meridian. Just get used to the fact that London is the starting point for all things. You can claim your independence, but some things you just have to buy into... the supremacy of London when navigating the planet is just one of those.
I think the easiest option would be if we added to country names and regions the prefix "The Former British Colony of...."
I understand that following the vast sink hole discovery in St Albans absent local Conservative MP Anne Main has asked for the assistance of fellow Tories Eric Pickles and Nicholas Soames to assist and fill in ....
Speaking of China, I'm re-reading Three Kingdoms now. Perhaps 1/3 of the way in (on page eight hundred and something). Cao Cao is very interesting character, almost like a Chinese Julius Caesar.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, that's depressing, yet not necessarily surprising.
Depressing thing is, it is starting over here as well, if this is what Scotland is going to become, then Independence can't come soon enough as we will be free of such a backwards people.
CONCERN has been raised over a new religious pressure group which is being proposed by MSPs with the backing of an exclusively Christian organisation that aims to "heal wounds inflicted by atheism".
Three of the five proposed MSPs who will join the group backed a parliamentary motion asserting that science could not disprove that God created the world in six days.
A proposal will go before a Holyrood committee today to win approval for a cross-party group on religious freedom, saying the new body would be open to members of all faiths and none.
They appear to not understand how science works. I'm fine with people believing that the Universe was created in six days. However, if that's a hypothesis, then it has to be testable, and ideally, make predictions as to how we might distinguish it from the currently accepted view that the Universe is around fifteen billion years old and began with the Big Bang.
I thought we'd settled this argument eons ago; Science doesn't deal directly with Faith.
CONCERN has been raised over a new religious pressure group which is being proposed by MSPs with the backing of an exclusively Christian organisation that aims to "heal wounds inflicted by atheism".
I see you are linking in to some pretty fruity stuff on twitter including what seems like a straight allegation of partiality about a secretary of a law society committee. The "evidence" is that this lady was in Lawyers for Yes!
Lord Watson was a no campaigner in the referendum as was Alistair Carmichael. Does this mean that your tweeters and presumably yourselves are linked in some way to fireraising and the leaking of official documents. I would think not but that is where this total nonsense of guilt by association leads. I really would have a care about this.
Then there is the question of guilt itself. Michelle Thomson has not been investigated by the police, never mind charged or convicted of anything at all. Her choice of Aamer Anwar as her solicitor and spokesperson is also an interesting one.
I came across this young man some time ago as part of a campaign group I was in. He seems very effective oh and also very litigious!
Comments
Via her lawyer, @MichelleThomson says she wishes "to clear her name and return as quickly as possible to front line politics"
You might be 56 again Dair ...
I believe before the Arab spring we actually reached out to him, at a similar time to us reaching out to Gadaffi. But he preferred to stay with Iran, who were developing a nuclear weapon.
OK so its not actually a farce then, you just don't like Farage or teenagers wearing tshirts. The OUT campaign is going very well, Nigel has made it clear that's his priority right now
"It is understood the initial police investigations will not involve Thomson herself."
http://www.thenational.scot/news/mp-withdraws-from-snp-whip-while-police-launch-an-investigation-into-property-firms-mortgage-payment-irregularities.8184
@paulhutcheon: Aamer Anwar statement on his client Michelle Thomson: "She maintains her commitment to the ideals of the SNP."
"Anwar, Thomson's legal adviser, said: “Over the last few days individuals have demanded full transparency from the SNP and the First Minister as to what they knew of the detailed nature of Michelle Thomson’s business dealings several years before she became an MP – the simple answer is none at all."
Are you wearing your 'BBC biased lefty crap' or 'BBC fine upholder of British values' pointy cap today?
'The BBC understands the initial police inquiries will not involve Ms Thomson, who was the party's business spokeswoman at Westminster.'
http://tinyurl.com/qd7umx7
"I believe before the Arab spring we actually reached out to him, at a similar time to us reaching out to Gadaffi. But he preferred to stay with Iran, who were developing a nuclear weapon"
We have never 'reached out' to Assad. It's impossible while Israel occupies large swathes of Syrian land and Israel has an almost complete veto on our Middle-Eastern policy. This is why we are faced with the counter intuitive situation of having as our ally one of the most brutal and barbaric theocracies as our number one ally and several secular and relatively progressive states as avowed enemies.
Would that be Nigel LAWSON? Lawson has gravitas. Lawson can front the campaign. Lawson can deal with the press. Lawson can deliver the campaign speeches.
Farage can come on at half time in his clown shoes to throw some custard pies around.
Farage can come on at half time in his clown shoes to throw some custard pies around.
That's quite funny :-)
But any further similar losses would be potentially very damaging. I expect all the new intake are being questioned a lot more thoroughly now than they were in 2014.
"Total (capital (submarines, missiles, warheads etc), maintenance, running & decommissioning) cost over 35 years......
Or......0.4% of annual UK Government spending..... "
Or £3,25 billion a year for the next 35 years for a weapon that can never be used unless we accept our own destruction....As a marketing person wouldn't you find that a tricky sell?
Since the SNP signed the Edinburgh Agreement committing to honour the outcome of the last "once in a generation" referendum, I doubt you'll get Westminster agreement to another......
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nuclear-deterrent-prime-minister-labour
"Not quite up on your cold war political history, are you Roger? "
I'm sure not but anything in particular in mind?
As for marketing the largely unusable, some of your younger, more talented colleagues are clearly making fortunes churning out promotional films advertising all manner of insurance products, so it's clearly very easy.
Syria conflict: Russia 'launches fresh strikes'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34413050
Though I understand that China's name in Chinese translates as "central country", so perhaps this tendency to think the world revolves around us is not unique to us.
I'm sure you've plenty of pointy hats in the wardrobe.
I avoid "Far east" simply because it doesn't translate well (Chinese correspondents have taken it to mean east of them, for example).
It makes sense for every country to think of itself centrally. Consider the first explorers and map-makers. Home is bound to be in the middle, and you define other things by how far east, west, north and south they are.
For my father, one of CND’s early founders, apocalypse was so imminent that he had to turn the car round on a holiday to Wales and go home to collect the large jar of suicide pills he kept for the whole family, in case of nuclear attack.
That association while not pre-dating the creation of Israel, certainly arose before the actions of Israel you mention are the reason we can't do business with Assad (who in any case spurned even Bill's overture).
In brief, you are talking bollocks.
- Far East is, in longitudinal terms, accurate wherever you're based.
- 'Pacific rim' could equally well relate to Chile as China (and sounds vaguely rude)
- Who exactly is drilling it into you to use inaccurate terms in preference to well-established and appropriate ones?
So long as Carson and Trump don't get it, I'll be happy.
Right.
E.g. this from Australia:
http://www.map-centre.com.au/schoolmaps/World_maps/World-wall-Maps/Hema-World-mid.jpg
The last thing I want is to start feeling sorry for Polly on account of her dysfunctional and traumatic childhood.
A NORTHERN man has left a trail of terror across London by attempting to interact socially with everyone he meets.
Stephen Malley has left residents of the capital traumatised by his relentless onslaught of cheerful chat and maintained eye contact.
Euston ticket office operative Julian Cook said: “I pushed his Travelcard at him while staring fixedly downward but instead of scurrying off, head bowed in shame, he just stood there.
“I realised that his earlier remark about London attractions was not addressed to a Bluetooth headset but to me, and that he actually expected an answer.
“I closed my position immediately and have an appointment with the trauma counsellor.”
http://bit.ly/1PPuxJh
Ben Carson: Creation vs. Evolution Controversy is Part of ‘Satan’s Plan to Get Rid of God’
http://bit.ly/1LSeQlk
He also says a Muslim can't be President.
Ignoring the fact Barack Obama is one.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, that's depressing, yet not necessarily surprising.
CONCERN has been raised over a new religious pressure group which is being proposed by MSPs with the backing of an exclusively Christian organisation that aims to "heal wounds inflicted by atheism".
Three of the five proposed MSPs who will join the group backed a parliamentary motion asserting that science could not disprove that God created the world in six days.
A proposal will go before a Holyrood committee today to win approval for a cross-party group on religious freedom, saying the new body would be open to members of all faiths and none.
http://bit.ly/1PPvgtO
I remember a holiday which my then girlfriend (now wife) and I took in Wales in 1976. It was actually wonderful - walking on the Brecon Beacons in bright, warm sunshine in that exceptional summer - but we did have a bit of trouble buying provisions. I remember the looks of utter confusion in the local greengrocer's when we asked if they had any parsley. Eventually after much scurrying around they produced what looked like a pre-war packet of Paxo Parsley Stuffing.
https://twitter.com/Election_UK/status/649322581917585408
John Mason, who represents Glasgow Shettleston in the Scottish Parliament, has lodged a motion at Holyrood calling for creationism to have a place in schools.
http://bit.ly/1Blfkt3
Former Monaco-based tax exile Max Mosley funded Tom Watson's deputy leadership campaign to the tune of £40,000: http://order-order.com/2015/10/01/max-mosley-bankrolled-watsons-deputy-leadership-campaign/#:ZKuvBpkhe9SMXA …
"Tin foil hat for Roger."
I sat in a meeting in Beirut (Shampoo NOT tampons) discussing which of the P+G execs could come to London for the telecine. The brand manager was Palestinian so couldn't get a visa. The American product manager baded in Jeddah wasn't allowed to travel at that time because of tensions in the area (P+G looked after their American staff). I then suggested getting the TK done in Israel.....
Impossible!
Anyone -incluing me-with an Israeli stamp in our passport wouldn't be allowed back into Lebanon and the Palestinian based in Beirut couldn't get a visa anyway......
I already have the tin hat.....
Mr. M, a very good point. Such things are noteworthy exceptions.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-34410423
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34410873
Manor to have Mercedes engines next year. Points seem probable. They also have some Williams components.
I thought we'd settled this argument eons ago; Science doesn't deal directly with Faith.
Add in the banning the GM crops without looking at the Science and it isn't a good look all round.
A dopey thief has been prosecuted for shoplifting after going to a police station to complain about the circulation of his CCTV image.
http://bit.ly/1O9Vqdv
I see you are linking in to some pretty fruity stuff on twitter including what seems like a straight allegation of partiality about a secretary of a law society committee. The "evidence" is that this lady was in Lawyers for Yes!
Lord Watson was a no campaigner in the referendum as was Alistair Carmichael. Does this mean that your tweeters and presumably yourselves are linked in some way to fireraising and the leaking of official documents. I would think not but that is where this total nonsense of guilt by association leads. I really would have a care about this.
Then there is the question of guilt itself. Michelle Thomson has not been investigated by the police, never mind charged or convicted of anything at all. Her choice of Aamer Anwar as her solicitor and spokesperson is also an interesting one.
I came across this young man some time ago as part of a campaign group I was in. He seems very effective oh and also very litigious!