Some of the EU"s response to the migrant crisis is inadequate and some poorly co-ordinated, but would it look much different if the EU or Shengen did not exist at all?
The main stream of migrants cross an external border into Greece, then leave the EU and Shengen to enter FYR Macedonia, then enter another Non-EU state in Serbia, then re-enter the EU into Croatia before running into border controls at Slovenia, Austria or Hungary, and again into Germany.
The problem is not the EU, it is the collapse of functioning states across the Muslim part of the world, the lack of effective policing of borders whether in the EU or not and the Refugee Convention. The problem is happening in Europe but is not caused by the EU and would look much the same if all countries were completely autonomous.
But I am not sure that even tearing up the refugee convention would halt the flood.
A comment that conveniently ignored that by accepting and encouraging migrants to settle in Germany - and consequently in the whole of the rest of the EU within 5 years - Merkel has sent out an open invitation to hundreds of thousands of more people to risk their lives in the hands of the smugglers. It is a criminal act which has been made possible by the German dominance of the EU.
The migrants don't give a damn about 5 years from now. They're given an option to get a better life now, today. An opportunity to live in Germany now is infinitely better than living in an impoverished failed state in Africa or the Middle East.
Abolishing free movement of the EU would make zero difference to the attraction of Germany.
Erm yes it would. Because they would have to get through other countries to get there. Currently those countries are unable to prevent them because of a combination of open borders and the misplaced criticism by Germany and the EU.
And nothing you have said changes the fact that Merkel is encouraging more migration and should therefore be held responsible for the many hundreds or thousands of additional deaths that will occur as a result.
I don't know why everyone is so excited about John McDonnell's interview today where he commits to clearing the deficit. He's basically repeating his own words from August:
Artwork showing Sylvanian Families terrorised by Isis banned from free speech exhibition Isis Threaten Sylvania by the artist Mimsy is removed from Passion for Freedom exhibition at London’s Mall Galleries, after police raise security concerns. Below, Guardian critic Jonathan Jones reviews the artwork
There isn't an example of tying nations together successfully and permenantly. UK, USSR, Spain, India, the Balkans, Roman Empire etc.
The formation of the United States?
The federation of the USA with the Republic of Texas?
India's a pretty good example as well. Yes, Bangladesh and Pakistan were hived off, but the multiplicity of Hindi princely states were combined despite their differences (e.g. I spent a couple of days this week in Ahmedabad which, as a dry, vegetarian, state is very different to, say, Mumbai)
And Hanover - indeed, until 1837 the King of Britain/the UK was also separately King of Hanover, which caused more than a few problems in the Napoleonic wars.
PS - wasn't Venice a republic rather than a Kingdom until it was splurged by Napoleon?
A republican city state though had the Doges
It's the way republicans walk .... but may be treated in NHS casualty departments as long as they are in mufti .... which is fine especially if they are a Muslim cleric ....
Interesring though not quite sure the Venice connection
Oh ....
After WWII an influx of Venetian republicans came to the area around Maida Vale and Paddington. It became known as Little Venice. These post war gondoliers were attracted by the Grand Union Canal setting.
However they came with their own problems. Generations of water borne transport and lack of walking exercise had led many of them to suffer from lower body muscle wastage - known as the doges - after a 16th century Doge who suffered an unfortunate gait.
The newly created NHS at St Mary's Hospital Paddington became world acclaimed in the treatment of the doges and named the department the Mufti Centre in honour of the legless Mufti of Bosnia Herzegovina who part funded the centre following his exile to London in 1947.
Incredibly interesting factoid.
And there's more. These unfortunates suffered further.
Over the decades their habit of clenching and chewing on the root of the roses between the teeth for the male passenger to subsequently hand to the lady led to the gondoliers developing mouth ulcers and dental problems.
The dentistry at St Mary's was pioneered by the Savoy Centre of Mr Gilbert Sullivan whose work among the exiled gondoliers became affectionately and then officially known as root canal work.
'That so many soft-BINers have moved into the BOOer camp says a lot - I think what's left of the EU isn't worth being part of. The Merkel crisis just confirmed the worst of their excesses/incompetence.'
The BOOer's were looking for a leader and along came Merkel.
Have you considered an escorted tour? They get a bad press for being uncool, but I've had great fun on those as a singleton traveler. Met loads of different sorts, shared travel tummy horrors and had a great laugh/learned oodles.
I'm quite an explorer and tend to encourage others to be a bit more adventurous than they'd be on their own - no one's been harmed yet
I think I rate poorly in these things - I got someone who wasn't even an Emperor in that 'Which Roman Emperor are you?' thing yesterday.
Presumably it was the bit about the grass being greener on the other side of the fence.
I do wish I were more adventurous. Just last week a relative of mine who lives in Australia popped by to visit - they'd been in Laos, but couldn't find a decent motorcycle hire, so decided to pop back to the UK for a few weeks before heading to Hong Kong, then to India. Travel makes me sick and nervous unfortunately, I must make an effort to get over it.
Ah, a banana to replace hemlock. At least D. Miliband would be more edible.
Pointless poll as David Miliband is clearly too moderate for Labour members in this Parliament. The only viable alternative to Corbyn before the 2020 election as Labour leader is Hillary Benn
Below, Guardian critic Jonathan Jones reviews the artwork
Bravo to the Guardian for highlighting this absurd piece of censorship.
Jack W's attempts to put things in perspective notwithstanding, it is difficult not to conclude that some sort of official appeasement holds sway. The examples are just too numerous
Mr. kle4, we don't choose if we're remembered, though. A madman deliberately destroyed the Temple of Artemis, a wonder of the ancient world, so his name would live forever.
If a patient had complained, it is a different matter.
Why risk it? Perhaps there is a small muslim awkward squad who don;t hesitate to kick up a fuss if they feel offended in any way??
Imagine having to deal with them as an NHS worker.
The fact the problem exists at all is concrete proof there has been too much immigration. When people warned against it, saying it would lead to segregation and clashes of culture, this was the kind of incident that was predicted. Those warnings were dismissed as scaremongering then, and amazingly still are now even as they become reality
Just imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.
Mr. kle4, we don't choose if we're remembered, though. A madman deliberately destroyed the Temple of Artemis, a wonder of the ancient world, so his name would live forever.
Historians very often refuse to name him.
I suppose so, I recall that story but not the person who did it, so it worked a little I guess.
Robin Brandt Both a senior #UKIP party official & prominent party donor told me on Thursday they didn't want @SuzanneEvans1 as London mayoral candidate
I can't help but feel those telling us to ignore the effects of second hand migration to the UK when these asylum seekers get EU passports are being a bit dishonest. It's obvious at least some will come here. Whether that's 10% or 50% remains to be seen.
.How long does it take to fly to Mars..or anywhere out there...
The fact remains that the West's response to 9/11 was to destroy one of the bulwarks against Islamic radicalism - Saddam Hussein.
He may have been guilty of many things, but blowing up the twin towers was not one of them. Going to war on that pretext was a giant lie.
Was that the pretext? As I recall (and I was quite young at the time, only 19-20 so I would be willing to be told I was wrong) he was a threat to the world because of his weapons of mass destruction that could either be used by him or fall into the wrong hands and the United States, after 9/11, was unwilling to tolerate such threats. So he was compared to al-Qaeda rather than linked to them.
As we all now know, the WMD issue was the most rubbish to the square second since The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, but I think that was the case rather than a direct responsibility for the Twin Towers.
If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested to see it.
America for one saw Saddam as moving to allow terrorists to operate in his country. He was isolated with sanctions but still breaking the terms of the ceasefire to attack (with chemicals at times) his own people. The reason politicians like Hurd were against finishing Saddam off in '92 was that they expected his own people to rise against him. When he crushed them we offered no support. Children were dying because he was misdirecting the humanitarian aid so sitting back and doing nothing was not saving lives. Bush clearly said in a press conference 'regime change' and the American thinking was to put in place a democratic regime which would support their policies.
The Iraq invasion always seemed to be a cause looking for an excuse but the Afghan incursion at least had a good fig leaf.
A month before the 9/11 attack, the ground was prepared by Al Queda assassinating the charismatic Northern Alliance leader with a suicide bomb.
The USA then had a bigger problem in responding, but to have ignored it, would have sent a bad message. We can argue about how they should have responded but allowing 3,000 murders on your home soil when the culprits were known wasn't one of them.
Massoud was assassinated only a couple of days before 9/11. Probably as big a tragedy for Afghanistan as any of the others to befall that tragedy ridden country.
There isn't an example of tying nations together successfully and permenantly. UK, USSR, Spain, India, the Balkans, Roman Empire etc.
The formation of the United States?
The federation of the USA with the Republic of Texas?
India's a pretty good example as well. Yes, Bangladesh and Pakistan were hived off, but the multiplicity of Hindi princely states were combined despite their differences (e.g. I spent a couple of days this week in Ahmedabad which, as a dry, vegetarian, state is very different to, say, Mumbai)
And Hanover - indeed, until 1837 the King of Britain/the UK was also separately King of Hanover, which caused more than a few problems in the Napoleonic wars.
PS - wasn't Venice a republic rather than a Kingdom until it was splurged by Napoleon?
A republican city state though had the Doges
It's the way republicans walk .... but may be treated in NHS casualty departments as long as they are in mufti .... which is fine especially if they are a Muslim cleric ....
Interesring though not quite sure the Venice connection
Oh ....
After WWII an influx of Venetian republicans came to the area around Maida Vale and Paddington. It became known as Little Venice. These post war gondoliers were attracted by the Grand Union Canal setting.
However they came with their own problems. Generations of water borne transport and lack of walking exercise had led many of them to suffer from lower body muscle wastage - known as the doges - after a 16th century Doge who suffered an unfortunate gait.
The newly created NHS at St Mary's Hospital Paddington became world acclaimed in the treatment of the doges and named the department the Mufti Centre in honour of the legless Mufti of Bosnia Herzegovina who part funded the centre following his exile to London in 1947.
Incredibly interesting factoid.
And there's more. These unfortunates suffered further.
Over the decades their habit of clenching and chewing on the root of the roses between the teeth for the male passenger to subsequently hand to the lady led to the gondoliers developing mouth ulcers and dental problems.
The dentistry at St Mary's was pioneered by the Savoy Centre of Mr Gilbert Sullivan whose work among the exiled gondoliers became affectionately and then officially known as root canal work.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
The answer is a single name. Farage. Whilst he might have helped raise UKIP's profile massively and also helped push the whole EU question centre stage, he has also run the party as his own effective fiefdom. He has made sure anyone with any real possibility of challenging him was undermined, discredited or forced out and has created an organisation that simply cannot develop or advance as long as he is in charge.
There is a wealth of talent in the Eurosceptic movement that won't touch Farage with a bargepole and as a result he remains simultaneously one of the best and most accomplished advocates for, but also one of the greatest hindrances to, the UK leaving the EU.
No, but I was speaking from the perspective of pro-EUers.
Plato_Says,
I do not see how you can have a free speech exhibition and then ban something for being inflammatory. As with the army officer being moved in hospital, you wonder what is happening to this country. The onwards march of political correctness makes you want to vote UKIP in pure protest!
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
Because Tories are seen to be a realistic option? Because we actually have a referendum coming? Because Farage is not interested in winning parliamentary seats any more? Farage is not really interested in ukip any more, he sees the referendum as his way to continued self publicity?
India is a much better example for the EU than the USA. It does however suggest a century of foreign occupation is needed to unite the continent.
Parallels are helpful but not golden rules.
Britain increased further a sense of self within India that already existed, though of course it didn't become a single country on independence.
What's really necessary is a sense of commonality and shared inheritance and experience, local differences notwithstanding. There is that within Europe if you choose to look for it but it isn't overwhelming.
A shared external threat also does wonders for pushing towards unity, just as the lack of one tends to push in the opposite direction. Again, those threats clearly do exist but they can be ignored for the time being.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
Because Tories are seen to be a realistic option? Because we actually have a referendum coming? Because Farage is not interested in winning parliamentary seats any more? Farage is not really interested in ukip any more, he sees the referendum as his way to continued self publicity?
UKIP are clealyl led by Farage for the greater publicity of Farage. The man is on an ego trip.
As for deselecting their one MP, they appear to have have excrement for brains to even mention it. I assume they are doing their best to ensure they only compete against Corbyn for the lunatic fringe (for that is what it looks like).
The fallacy in Herdson's piece is that the European interest or even the interest of humanity is the sum of countries' national interests. If you accept that, of course you accept that the European Union must be destroyed. In reality, people face collective-action problems all the time, from villages to the international community, and they're more common internationally because the only standard governance system is might-makes-right.
Situations in which the invisible hand doesn't lead to the best outcome are precisely what the European Union is good at addressing. For instance, migrants went to Germany, which is a rich country that can handle them. In the British Eurosceptic's invisible-hand, non-EU solution, migrants presumably end up in Greece or Hungary, or perhaps they top up the millions already in Lebanon. It seems like European Union has delivered better outcomes; in Germany, state institutions for service delivery are stronger than in Greece, and fewer bands of neo-Nazis roam than in Hungary, and Lebanon is overwhelmed. Yes, it may be difficult to get national agreement. But difficulty is not a moral justification not to try, and to destroy the institutions that let us try.
The fallacy in Herdson's piece is that the European interest or even the interest of humanity is the sum of countries' national interests. If you accept that, of course you accept that the European Union must be destroyed. In reality, people face collective-action problems all the time, from villages to the international community, and they're more common internationally because the only standard governance system is might-makes-right.
Situations in which the invisible hand doesn't lead to the best outcome are precisely what the European Union is good at addressing. For instance, migrants went to Germany, which is a rich country that can handle them. In the British Eurosceptic's invisible-hand, non-EU solution, migrants presumably end up in Greece or Hungary, or perhaps they top up the millions already in Lebanon. It seems like European Union has delivered better outcomes; in Germany, state institutions for service delivery are stronger than in Greece, and fewer bands of neo-Nazis roam than in Hungary, and Lebanon is overwhelmed. Yes, it may be difficult to get national agreement. But difficulty is not a moral justification not to try, and to destroy the institutions that let us try.
No, but I was speaking from the perspective of pro-EUers.
Plato_Says,
I do not see how you can have a free speech exhibition and then ban something for being inflammatory. As with the army officer being moved in hospital, you wonder what is happening to this country. The onwards march of political correctness makes you want to vote UKIP in pure protest!
'That so many soft-BINers have moved into the BOOer camp says a lot - I think what's left of the EU isn't worth being part of. The Merkel crisis just confirmed the worst of their excesses/incompetence.'
The BOOer's were looking for a leader and along came Merkel.
I'm leaning towards voting for out. Most likely thing to stop me is Farage.
The fallacy in Herdon's piece is that the European interest or even the interest of humanity is the sum of countries' national interests. If you accept that, of course you accept that the European Union must be destroyed. In reality, people face collective-action problems all the time, from villages to the international community, and they're more common internationally because the only standard governance system is might-makes-right.
Situations in which the invisible hand doesn't lead to the best outcome are precisely what the European Union is good at addressing. For instance, migrants went to Germany, which is a rich country that can handle them. In the British Eurosceptic's invisible-hand, non-EU solution, migrants presumably end up in Greece or Hungary, or perhaps they top up the millions already in Lebanon. It seems like European Union has delivered better outcomes; in Germany, state institutions for service delivery are stronger than in Greece, and fewer bands of neo-Nazis roam than in Hungary, and Lebanon is overwhelmed. Yes, it may be difficult to get national agreement. But difficulty is not a moral justification not to try, and to destroy the institutions that let us try.
The fallacy of your argument is the idea that what Germany is doing is in the best interests of either Europe or the migrants themselves. By encouraging further migration they are simply condemning more people to death whilst at the same time causing chaos across Europe. The only countries that have so far tried to do the right thing are the UK - with taking refugees directly from the camps - and Hungary by trying to enforce the EU rules and process asylum seekers at their first entry point into the EU. Both these correct and sensible processes have been badly undermined by the German idiocy supported by a malfunctioning EU.
Just about the only UK party leader who has shown any leadership and common sense so far is Cameron. And given how much I generally dislike the man on matters to do with the EU that is quite some endorsement.
'That so many soft-BINers have moved into the BOOer camp says a lot - I think what's left of the EU isn't worth being part of. The Merkel crisis just confirmed the worst of their excesses/incompetence.'
The BOOer's were looking for a leader and along came Merkel.
I'm leaning towards voting for out. Most likely thing to stop me is Farage.
Look at it this way. If we leave the EU there are large numbers of UKIP leaning voters who will dump the party without a moment's regret. Leaving the EU is the best way to ensure Farage is consigned to the dustbin of political history.
I have no idea what happened in Kent* ; just that in Leicester I have never heard the like, and we have several nearby military bases.
In addition if we hid anyone whose dress (or undress), behavior or lack of hygiene offended others then we would have a pretty quiet time of it!
* Chemical burns to face and eyes are fairly distressing for children and some patients to look at, there may well have been quite an innocuous reason for putting the sergeant in a curtained off are.
Mr. kle4, we don't choose if we're remembered, though. A madman deliberately destroyed the Temple of Artemis, a wonder of the ancient world, so his name would live forever.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
There hasn't been any real test of how well any party are doing since the election
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
Something mentioned here a lot is his unresignation as a factor. Frankly, I've never considered it important - he's synonymous with the Kipper brand - I'd be impressed if 5% of the electorate knew about this story and cared less.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
There hasn't been any real test of how well any party are doing since the election
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
Something mentioned here a lot is his unresignation as a factor. Frankly, I've never considered it important - he's synonymous with the Kipper brand - I'd be impressed if 5% of the electorate knew about this story and cared less.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
There hasn't been any real test of how well any party are doing since the election
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
The only people who seem to care about the unresignation are those who disliked UKIP to begin with. I imagine a new leader such as Paul Nuttall would have been refreshing, especially if they are now targetting Labour voters.
Looks like UKIP have selected Peter Whittle as their mayoral candidate.
I think you will find if you double-check that actually the original treaty of 1922 allowed for the Irish Free State to contain all the counties of Ireland, but gave six an opt-out clause where those powers would be 'suspended' after one month if the inhabitants of those counties so wished, which option was exercised by all six.
Better that than the original 'sentence of death with a stay of execution for six years' that was in the original Buckingham Palace Agreement
.How long does it take to fly to Mars..or anywhere out there...
The fact remains that the West's response to 9/11 was to destroy one of the bulwarks against Islamic radicalism - Saddam Hussein.
He may have been guilty of many things, but blowing up the twin towers was not one of them. Going to war on that pretext was a giant lie.
Was that the pretext? As I recall (and I was quite young at the time, only 19-20 so I would be willing to be told I was wrong) he was a threat to the world because of his weapons of mass destruction that could either be used by him or fall into the wrong hands and the United States, after 9/11, was unwilling to tolerate such threats. So he was compared to al-Qaeda rather than linked to them.
As we all now know, the WMD issue was the most rubbish to the square second since The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, but I think that was the case rather than a direct responsibility for the Twin Towers.
If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested to see it.
America for one saw Saddam as moving to allow terrorists to operate in his country. He was isolated with sanctions but still breaking the terms of the ceasefire to attack (with chemicals at times) his own people. The reason politicians like Hurd were against finishing Saddam off in '92 was that they expected his own people to rise against him. When he crushed them we offered no support. Children were dying because he was misdirecting the humanitarian aid so sitting back and doing nothing was not saving lives. Bush clearly said in a press conference 'regime change' and the American thinking was to put in place a democratic regime which would support their policies.
They might have thought it but they did nothing to plan it. To fail to plan etc!
It would be interesting to see if there has been a single complaint by a muslim about a man in uniform at this hospital. I very much doubt it.
I understand that there had previously been an "altercation" between two individuals, one in uniform. But that doesn't make the staff members actions right or appropriate
Something mentioned here a lot is his unresignation as a factor. Frankly, I've never considered it important - he's synonymous with the Kipper brand - I'd be impressed if 5% of the electorate knew about this story and cared less.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
There hasn't been any real test of how well any party are doing since the election
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
Normal people not obsessed w politics, ie all my friends and family except me, wouldn't even know it happened then unhappened.
When canvassing its true a cvouple of middle class types in Frinton loved Carswell and weren't sure about Farage but, in Dagenham and Rainham people were asking if I could ask him round theres for tea!
Something mentioned here a lot is his unresignation as a factor. Frankly, I've never considered it important - he's synonymous with the Kipper brand - I'd be impressed if 5% of the electorate knew about this story and cared less.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
There hasn't been any real test of how well any party are doing since the election
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
The only people who seem to care about the unresignation are those who disliked UKIP to begin with.
Nope. I want UKIP to do well, I think we need more parties doing well, particularly with the LDs facing at best a long, hard route back to anything like relevance, but it made Farage look silly and slippery.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
There hasn't been any real test of how well any party are doing since the election
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
I agree with the force of your post, but I do get the sense that whilst UKIP were before the election trying to spread their wings - big policies on the NHS for example, inheritance tax, etc - they have becoming much more EU/immigration focussed.
They certainly don't see local elections as a way up. It's go big, go national, or go home.
I have no idea what happened in Kent* ; just that in Leicester I have never heard the like, and we have several nearby military bases.
In addition if we hid anyone whose dress (or undress), behavior or lack of hygiene offended others then we would have a pretty quiet time of it!
* Chemical burns to face and eyes are fairly distressing for children and some patients to look at, there may well have been quite an innocuous reason for putting the sergeant in a curtained off are.
Not in this case. A hospital spokesman said: "“This employee was acting in good faith as previously there had been an altercation between a member of the public and a different member of the Armed Forces in uniform. "
The officer "who has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, was reportedly told that many "other cultures" use the hospital.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
There hasn't been any real test of how well any party are doing since the election
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
I agree with the force of your post, but I do get the sense that whilst UKIP were before the election trying to spread their wings - big policies on the NHS for example, inheritance tax, etc - they have becoming much more EU/immigration focussed.
They certainly don't see local elections as a way up. It's go big, go national, or go home.
It seems that way... Seems fair enough to go all out on the primary purpose of the party to me. Rather success in the referendum than a load of good 2nds in Wales, NI and London!
That's right, virtually none. This is the most bogus of the patriarchal arguments.
The Turks came to Germany long before the EU and free movement even existed. How many Dutch Somalis moved here? Tens of thousands.
Was Somalia a colony of the Dutch > In fact, more Somalian asylum seekers came to the UK. It was then that the "Dutch" Somalis started moving to the UK when that nutter gained prominence in the Netherlands.
I can't help but feel those telling us to ignore the effects of second hand migration to the UK when these asylum seekers get EU passports are being a bit dishonest. It's obvious at least some will come here. Whether that's 10% or 50% remains to be seen.
It's obvious that more than zero people will move to the UK, but the *net* effect of Germany's policy isn't at all obvious. The net effect may be negative, in that: 1) If Germany is being welcoming while the UK isn't some of the people who would have gone to Britain (legally or illegally) will go to Germany instead. 2) If Germany ends up with a big Syrian population, some UK-resident Syrians may move over there to join them, particularly people who aren't very deeply integrated in Britain.
That's right, virtually none. This is the most bogus of the patriarchal arguments.
The Turks came to Germany long before the EU and free movement even existed. How many Dutch Somalis moved here? Tens of thousands.
Was Somalia a colony of the Dutch ?
No, it was a British one. Like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Nigeria, where many of the current migrants are from. Also Syrians are very similar to Iraqis and will likely intermingle with the British Iraqi population.
I have no idea what happened in Kent* ; just that in Leicester I have never heard the like, and we have several nearby military bases.
In addition if we hid anyone whose dress (or undress), behavior or lack of hygiene offended others then we would have a pretty quiet time of it!
* Chemical burns to face and eyes are fairly distressing for children and some patients to look at, there may well have been quite an innocuous reason for putting the sergeant in a curtained off are.
Not in this case. A hospital spokesman said: "“This employee was acting in good faith as previously there had been an altercation between a member of the public and a different member of the Armed Forces in uniform. "
The officer "who has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, was reportedly told that many "other cultures" use the hospital.
If a British military officer had complained about a Muslim in a burkha and the hospital moved the Muslim, it would be all over BBC News. If people are of foreign cultures then they need to adopt British culture and respect our armed forces.
If a British military officer had complained about a Muslim in a burkha and the hospital moved the Muslim, it would be all over BBC News. If people are of foreign cultures then they need to adopt British culture and respect our armed forces.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
That's to go too far the other way. While it's undoubtedly true that senior management can and do set policy and culture, those at the bottom end implement it and interpret it on a practical level. It would be wrong to say the hospital staff directly involved were the only ones to blame but it would equally wrong to say they were not to blame at all.
Something similar going on in Calais: "French police convinced direct action taken by migrants trying to storm Channel Tunnel is coordinated by anarchists or far-Left activists"
No surprise, really. Where would migrants get photos of Merkel to brandish, if not from sympathetic political activists? Why write "Germany" in English on their placards (rather than Deutschland), if not to appeal to the world media?
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
I think the cultural peer pressure of being right-on and PC has been one of the most divisive things in my lifetime.
It's bred an atmosphere of fear and card-playing where those who don't comply are a target. And particularly poisonous in the public sector.
I was accused of being homophobic by someone who wanted a £300k payoff to start a new life in Australia. It was an appalling experience. He got £30k to go away. I've seen dozens of examples of this behaviour over the years - usually the race card by someone who isn't up to the job.
Until we stop cringing and being frightened of identity bullying - we're doomed to more of this nonsense.
A friend of mine regaled a tale which he found most amusing - his boss during a drunken office night out said he hated fat people. This was in Manchester NHS and the next day rang in a panic begging him not to repeat it as he'd be sacked. Fearing being sacked for being fattest strikes me as rather OTT.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
That's to go too far the other way. While it's undoubtedly true that senior management can and do set policy and culture, those at the bottom end implement it and interpret it on a practical level. It would be wrong to say the hospital staff directly involved were the only ones to blame but it would equally wrong to say they were not to blame at all.
Was Somalia a colony of the Dutch > In fact, more Somalian asylum seekers came to the UK. It was then that the "Dutch" Somalis started moving to the UK when that nutter gained prominence in the Netherlands.
Somalia was 'Eye-tie' land. Somaliland was a Crown colony.
I don;t think it is absurd at all. The culture of the organisation is set by the managers. Their culture is set by those above them. And so on. Ultimately it is those at the very top who are responsible.
The chain of command works down, not up
It's the same with the police wanting, absurdly, to ban a piece of art in a free speech exhibition on the grounds it might be inflammatory.They want to please their bosses.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
Maybe it should, but how many more cans of worms do you want thrown on your carpet?
I don;t think it is absurd at all. The culture of the organisation is set by the managers. Their culture is set by those above them. And so on. Ultimately it is those at the very top who are responsible.
The chain of command works down, not up
It's the same with the police wanting, absurdly, to ban a piece of art in a free speech exhibition on the grounds it might be inflammatory.They want to please their bosses.
The notion that everything that happens that you do not like is the fault of the 'top' is absurd. No sooner do governments start behaving dictatorially for our own good then you would be the first to complain.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
Maybe it should, but how many more cans of worms do you want thrown on your carpet?
Well, the government has the political capital to do so. What the legislation does, in practice, is create a right not to be offended. That doesn't contribute to social harmony.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
Maybe it should, but how many more cans of worms do you want thrown on your carpet?
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
Maybe it should, but how many more cans of worms do you want thrown on your carpet?
So he shouldn't bother because it is hard?
Multiculturalism is a poison that needs destroyed. I doubt that it would even be that unpopular. As far as I can tell, the more successful immigrant communities (which are the most integrated) would not object. And certainly most of the indigenous population would welcome it (whether for enlightened reasons or not).
Something similar going on in Calais: "French police convinced direct action taken by migrants trying to storm Channel Tunnel is coordinated by anarchists or far-Left activists
Not a surprise as you say. But to say 'within the EU' is a bit misleading when what he is referring to is activities by loopy extremists.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
Maybe it should, but how many more cans of worms do you want thrown on your carpet?
So he shouldn't bother because it is hard?
Multiculturalism is a poison that needs destroyed. I doubt that it would even be that unpopular. As far as I can tell, the more successful immigrant communities (which are the most integrated) would not object. And certainly most of the indigenous population would welcome it (whether for enlightened reasons or not).
Can we start by taking down the Gaelic road signs ?
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
Maybe it should, but how many more cans of worms do you want thrown on your carpet?
Well, the government has the political capital to do so. What the legislation does, in practice, is create a right not to be offended. That doesn't contribute to social harmony.
The legislation creates a right for certain groups not to be offended. If, for example, a Muslim is offended by the sight of an RAF officer in uniform, then the RAF office is be moved out of sight in response. On the other hand, whilst I am offended by seeing Muslim women with their faces veiled, I would never dare complain about this, for fear of risking a charge of some kind of "hate crime".
I have happy memories of these stacks: I finished the first day of my coastal walk in their shadow. It was an odd feeling: one day done, a year to go ...
Indeed. The case at the Court of Appeal re Asian girls being more effected by sex crimes being another.
I'd be very surprised if most Brits would object to religious hatred crimes being repealed - and a fair chunk of race ones too. A crime is a crime if the law is blind.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
Maybe it should, but how many more cans of worms do you want thrown on your carpet?
Well, the government has the political capital to do so. What the legislation does, in practice, is create a right not to be offended. That doesn't contribute to social harmony.
The legislation creates a right for certain groups not to be offended. If, for example, a Muslim is offended by the sight of an RAF officer in uniform, then the RAF office is be moved out of sight in response. On the other hand, whilst I am offended by seeing Muslim women with their faces veiled, I would never dare complain about this, for fear of risking a charge of some kind of "hate crime".
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
I'm no expert on the law but in principle an act against hatred doesn't seem so terrible. Big difference between inciting hatred and causing offence. Do you think people other than the EDL etc have been cowed by it?
Something mentioned here a lot is his unresignation as a factor. Frankly, I've never considered it important - he's synonymous with the Kipper brand - I'd be impressed if 5% of the electorate knew about this story and cared less.
J''ust imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.''
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
There hasn't been any real test of how well any party are doing since the election
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
Normal people not obsessed w politics, ie all my friends and family except me, wouldn't even know it happened then unhappened.
When canvassing its true a cvouple of middle class types in Frinton loved Carswell and weren't sure about Farage but, in Dagenham and Rainham people were asking if I could ask him round theres for tea!
It is easy to lose sight of what is important if you follow politics closely and focus on the details. The reality is that Farage has done l what most of us would have thought impossible. He has come close to, and might even now succeed, in getting Britain out of the EU. All three of the mainstream parties were against him and this was and probably still is a minority view. Agree or disagree with him, the guy is a genius.
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
I'm no expert on the law but in principle an act against hatred doesn't seem so terrible. Big difference between inciting hatred and causing offence. Do you think people other than the EDL etc have been cowed by it?
Yes indeed. It would almost certainly be unlawful to reproduce the Jylands Post cartoons in this country. University Secular Societies frequently have their activities restricted to avoid giving offence to Muslims. Christian clergy can be prosecuted for saying rude things about Islam
I find our cultural cringing at Muslims just appalling. We don't do it for any other religion.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
Don't be silly. The PM spoke out against 'multiculturalism' ages ago. I think Pickles for one was pretty quock to condemn the multiplicity of language translations avaolable in the NHS for instance. There has been no suggestion from this government that soldiers should not wear uniform or be defferent to anyone whilst in uniform. Your inference is absurd.
Then the government should do something concrete, like scrapping the Racial and Religious Hatred Act.
I'm no expert on the law but in principle an act against hatred doesn't seem so terrible. Big difference between inciting hatred and causing offence. Do you think people other than the EDL etc have been cowed by it?
Again, the law only seems to apply to certain sections of the population. Waving around banners saying things like "Death to those who insult Allah" and "British police - Go to hell" strike me as being somewhat hate-filled, but the people who do such things seem to able to act with impunity.
Granted, this case was not perhaps directly related to the Racial and Religious Hatred Act, but nevertheless it is illustrative of just how toxic a force political correctness and fear of "racism" can be.
That's right, virtually none. This is the most bogus of the patriarchal arguments.
The Turks came to Germany long before the EU and free movement even existed. How many Dutch Somalis moved here? Tens of thousands.
Was Somalia a colony of the Dutch ?
No, it was a British one. Like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Nigeria, where many of the current migrants are from. Also Syrians are very similar to Iraqis and will likely intermingle with the British Iraqi population.
I do get the feeling that the political classes who superseded the British colonial administrators in the countries which obtained their independence from Britain have let down their peoples and are incompetent and corrupt. The British Empire should have lasted at least another 500years. Now the people want to come and live in Britain.
Makes JCs non singing of the anthem look Churchillian
"An RAF sergeant who has served in Iraq and Afghanistan was moved out of a hospital waiting room because staff feared his uniform would upset people from different cultures, it was reported.
In an explanation to his family, hospital workers were said to have claimed ‘they didn’t want to upset people’ because they ‘have lots of different cultures coming in’.
Sergeant Prendeville’s father, Jim, said: ‘Mark was moved because of his uniform – he was told that twice' "
It would be interesting to see Dr Fox's view on this.
But my tuppenceworth: it depends on whether a patient made a complaint.
If a patient had not complained, then the members of staff who moved the sergeant were well out of order, and should receive a minor reprimand. It should also go on their records.
If a patient had complained, it is a different matter. I suppose a staff member must judge whether the complaint is justified or not. If (s)he thinks it is justified, then action is taken and the sergeant moved.
However, if the complaint is not justified, but the complainer has worked themselves up into a state then it might still be sensible, with apologies, to move whichever patient is easiest and safest to move to restore calm.
From the report, it sounds as though the first scenario is the correct one.
Grrrrrr.....
Whoever complained, if they did complain would be moved.... To the fecking car park.
They wouldn't complain then.
If they didn't complain and it was staff they would be moved to the nearest employment exchange and good bloody riddance.
Comments
And nothing you have said changes the fact that Merkel is encouraging more migration and should therefore be held responsible for the many hundreds or thousands of additional deaths that will occur as a result.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/11/jeremy-corbyn-close-deficit-poor-labour-economy
Over the decades their habit of clenching and chewing on the root of the roses between the teeth for the male passenger to subsequently hand to the lady led to the gondoliers developing mouth ulcers and dental problems.
The dentistry at St Mary's was pioneered by the Savoy Centre of Mr Gilbert Sullivan whose work among the exiled gondoliers became affectionately and then officially known as root canal work.
I'm quite an explorer and tend to encourage others to be a bit more adventurous than they'd be on their own - no one's been harmed yet
Bravo to the Guardian for highlighting this absurd piece of censorship.
Jack W's attempts to put things in perspective notwithstanding, it is difficult not to conclude that some sort of official appeasement holds sway. The examples are just too numerous
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/26/atheist-ex-muslim-banned-from-university-could-incite-hatred/
Historians very often refuse to name him.
Just imagine the outcry if 15 white blokes had turned up in a Asian area of Bradford and done this,plus brandishing a gun.
Oh the racism outcry.
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/13785690.Incident_involving_armed_gang_who_smashed_up_three_cars_described_as__worrying_and_alarming_/
Both a senior #UKIP party official & prominent party donor told me on Thursday they didn't want @SuzanneEvans1 as London mayoral candidate
Children were dying because he was misdirecting the humanitarian aid so sitting back and doing nothing was not saving lives. Bush clearly said in a press conference 'regime change' and the American thinking was to put in place a democratic regime which would support their policies.
Probably as big a tragedy for Afghanistan as any of the others to befall that tragedy ridden country.
Events right now, with labour being led by Corbyn to boot, appears tailor made for UKIP. Yet they appear to be going backwards.
Why UKIP aren't doing better is a very interesting question.
Betting PostBacked Bottas to be winner without the big three (Mercedes plus Vettel) at 2.78 on Betfair. Pre-race article will be up fairly soon.
There is a wealth of talent in the Eurosceptic movement that won't touch Farage with a bargepole and as a result he remains simultaneously one of the best and most accomplished advocates for, but also one of the greatest hindrances to, the UK leaving the EU.
Plato_Says,
I do not see how you can have a free speech exhibition and then ban something for being inflammatory. As with the army officer being moved in hospital, you wonder what is happening to this country. The onwards march of political correctness makes you want to vote UKIP in pure protest!
:muppet-watch:
Britain increased further a sense of self within India that already existed, though of course it didn't become a single country on independence.
What's really necessary is a sense of commonality and shared inheritance and experience, local differences notwithstanding. There is that within Europe if you choose to look for it but it isn't overwhelming.
A shared external threat also does wonders for pushing towards unity, just as the lack of one tends to push in the opposite direction. Again, those threats clearly do exist but they can be ignored for the time being.
As for deselecting their one MP, they appear to have have excrement for brains to even mention it. I assume they are doing their best to ensure they only compete against Corbyn for the lunatic fringe (for that is what it looks like).
Situations in which the invisible hand doesn't lead to the best outcome are precisely what the European Union is good at addressing. For instance, migrants went to Germany, which is a rich country that can handle them. In the British Eurosceptic's invisible-hand, non-EU solution, migrants presumably end up in Greece or Hungary, or perhaps they top up the millions already in Lebanon. It seems like European Union has delivered better outcomes; in Germany, state institutions for service delivery are stronger than in Greece, and fewer bands of neo-Nazis roam than in Hungary, and Lebanon is overwhelmed. Yes, it may be difficult to get national agreement. But difficulty is not a moral justification not to try, and to destroy the institutions that let us try.
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/japan-pre-race.html
I guess so, but surely the pressure on him will mount as the party misses open goal after open goal
Banning an exhibit using Sylvanian characters was just so WTF??
Just about the only UK party leader who has shown any leadership and common sense so far is Cameron. And given how much I generally dislike the man on matters to do with the EU that is quite some endorsement.
In addition if we hid anyone whose dress (or undress), behavior or lack of hygiene offended others then we would have a pretty quiet time of it!
* Chemical burns to face and eyes are fairly distressing for children and some patients to look at, there may well have been quite an innocuous reason for putting the sergeant in a curtained off are.
Polls schmolls, UKIP were on 16% last week and 7% this week.. nonsense to read anything into either
Local elections w a 15% turnout? Not for me
But they are used to prove Farage is harmful, while the record results UKIP have achieved in the last 2 years are not down to his influence at all... pitifully embarrassing analysis really
:def-not-clown:
Looks like UKIP have selected Peter Whittle as their mayoral candidate.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/26/its-whittle-ukip-selects-breitbart-london-favourite-as-mayoral-candidate/
When canvassing its true a cvouple of middle class types in Frinton loved Carswell and weren't sure about Farage but, in Dagenham and Rainham people were asking if I could ask him round theres for tea!
They certainly don't see local elections as a way up. It's go big, go national, or go home.
Labour Paul
Does Ed Miliband's apology for the Iraq War not count? Or is it something every Labour Leader will have to do, forever?
The officer "who has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, was reportedly told that many "other cultures" use the hospital.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/hospital-apology-over-airman-insult-43820/
.@jeremycorbyn given marrow by @hiSbe_Food during visit to the Brighton Hatchery. Picture: @BradyBoxBrownie http://t.co/CE5IYPRUA3
1) If Germany is being welcoming while the UK isn't some of the people who would have gone to Britain (legally or illegally) will go to Germany instead.
2) If Germany ends up with a big Syrian population, some UK-resident Syrians may move over there to join them, particularly people who aren't very deeply integrated in Britain.
If someone wants to be offended by a uniformed serviceman - let them be put into a broom cupboard.
Nobody would be cringing if they didn;t fear being disciplined/fined/prosecuted/fired.
As I said down thread, those calling for nurses to be fired are looking at completely the wrong targets. It is those ABOVE who should take the blame, because it is they who determine the culture that exists at that work place and in the wider country.
This goes right to the prime minister
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11785101/Calais-migrants-British-anarchists-infiltrate-camps-to-provoke-trouble-police-warn.html
No surprise, really. Where would migrants get photos of Merkel to brandish, if not from sympathetic political activists? Why write "Germany" in English on their placards (rather than Deutschland), if not to appeal to the world media?
It's bred an atmosphere of fear and card-playing where those who don't comply are a target. And particularly poisonous in the public sector.
I was accused of being homophobic by someone who wanted a £300k payoff to start a new life in Australia. It was an appalling experience. He got £30k to go away. I've seen dozens of examples of this behaviour over the years - usually the race card by someone who isn't up to the job.
Until we stop cringing and being frightened of identity bullying - we're doomed to more of this nonsense.
A friend of mine regaled a tale which he found most amusing - his boss during a drunken office night out said he hated fat people. This was in Manchester NHS and the next day rang in a panic begging him not to repeat it as he'd be sacked. Fearing being sacked for being fattest strikes me as rather OTT.
:are-you-fick-or-wot:
We haven't even done basics like ending multi-lingual benefits applications or stopping councils wasting money on multi-lingual everything.
I don't recall any repeals of the Blairites laws which make it hard to criticise Islam. I don't see any efforts to end voluntary ghettoisation.
I don;t think it is absurd at all. The culture of the organisation is set by the managers. Their culture is set by those above them. And so on. Ultimately it is those at the very top who are responsible.
The chain of command works down, not up
It's the same with the police wanting, absurdly, to ban a piece of art in a free speech exhibition on the grounds it might be inflammatory.They want to please their bosses.
well said Mr Dair. Would you trust Cameron to back you in a situation like this???
Absolutely not.
He's far more likely to see which side the wind is blowing, and then hang you out to dry.
Multiculturalism is a poison that needs destroyed. I doubt that it would even be that unpopular. As far as I can tell, the more successful immigrant communities (which are the most integrated) would not object. And certainly most of the indigenous population would welcome it (whether for enlightened reasons or not).
If, for example, a Muslim is offended by the sight of an RAF officer in uniform, then the RAF office is be moved out of sight in response. On the other hand, whilst I am offended by seeing Muslim women with their faces veiled, I would never dare complain about this, for fear of risking a charge of some kind of "hate crime".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-34368781
I have happy memories of these stacks: I finished the first day of my coastal walk in their shadow. It was an odd feeling: one day done, a year to go ...
I'd be very surprised if most Brits would object to religious hatred crimes being repealed - and a fair chunk of race ones too. A crime is a crime if the law is blind.
And who is cowed by the act? Well, do we really need to talk about Rotherham (for example) again. "Ms Casey wrote: “The issue of race is contentious, with staff and members lacking the confidence to tackle difficult issues for fear of being seen as racist or upsetting community cohesion. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rotherham-child-sex-abuse-scandal-council-not-fit-for-purpose.html
Granted, this case was not perhaps directly related to the Racial and Religious Hatred Act, but nevertheless it is illustrative of just how toxic a force political correctness and fear of "racism" can be.
Whoever complained, if they did complain would be moved.... To the fecking car park.
They wouldn't complain then.
If they didn't complain and it was staff they would be moved to the nearest employment exchange and good bloody riddance.