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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farron’s speech was pretty well received but what a mountai

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farron’s speech was pretty well received but what a mountain his party has to climb

I think that's as good as speech as I've ever heard from a Lib Dem leader. Passionate, personal and grown up where it needed to be.

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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,325
    edited September 2015
    FPT

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Birmingham_New_Street_2015_v_2009.png

    Still looks gloomy as hell on the platforms. They should have reinstated a replica of the original Victorian roof.
    Honestly, I think London St Pancras International is the benchmark for both original Victorian architecture and refurbished 21st cen. structure.

    The top floor of New Street (the oddly named "Grand Central" shopping centre) doesn't open until tomorrow.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,579
    2nd like jc
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited September 2015
    How does someone "sensible" and "grown up" still think it's a good idea to take refugees that have crossed the Med rather than from the camps, after everything that has happened since Merkel's annoucement?

    You'd have to be more concerned with pleasing European Union stakeholders than actually helping people or reducing casualties... oh wait, it's the Lib Dems. That explains it.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,579
    No. Make up more appropriate names.

    Lord Mandelbrot.
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    Well i guess it's a good lib dem speech for lib dems, problem is thats only about 10-15% of the population at it's max.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,325
    edited September 2015
    Portmanteau Politicians:

    Tim Fallon - LibDem Defence Secretary and MP for Westmorland

    Michael Farron - Tory leader and MP for Sevenoaks.
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    If a speech is delivered at a Lib Dem conference, did it make a sound?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    Well i guess it's a good lib dem speech for lib dems, problem is thats only about 10-15% of the population at it's max.

    I think if they could manage that amount again within 10 years they would be very happy indeed - ambition has probably be tempered.

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    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    So, as usual, you have nothing but SLAB propaganda.

    Nice.

    You are aware that there are limits on the number of loans available for student fees in England? Right? I mean you are?

    And that loans do not save the government one single red cent in the current financial year?

    There's a reason why successful economies like Germany have scrapped fees in those Land who charged them. They don't work.

    Sorry for pointing out the reality.

    There is no reality originating in anything Euan McColm says, the man lives his entire life in a fantasy.

    The irony is that Student Fees are the worst kind of hard left Socialism. That driven purely and solely by the politics of Envy. Where you identify a social or financial advantage that an individual has and then tax the living crap out of it.

    Because there is nothing contributory about Student Fees, they are purely and simply a tax on hard work, success and intellect. The worst kind of Socialism, focused on the aspirational and the striving.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    JEO said:

    How does someone "sensible" and "grown up" still think it's a good idea to take refugees that have crossed the Med rather than from the camps, after everything that has happened since Merkel's annoucement?

    You'd have to be more concerned with pleasing European Union stakeholders than actually helping people or reducing casualties... oh wait, it's the Lib Dems. That explains it.

    People who claim to be refugees. As the Germans and others are now finding out, a lot of them aren't refugees.

    The one plan the EU should be thinking about is how to deport those who do not have a claim for asylum. People might be less fussed about letting in and welcoming genuine asylum seekers if they saw real evidence that those who don't qualify get turned back or deported to their home countries.

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    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    So, as usual, you have nothing but SLAB propaganda.

    Nice.

    You are aware that there are limits on the number of loans available for student fees in England? Right? I mean you are?

    And that loans do not save the government one single red cent in the current financial year?

    There's a reason why successful economies like Germany have scrapped fees in those Land who charged them. They don't work.

    Sorry for pointing out the reality.

    There is no reality originating in anything Euan McColm says, the man lives his entire life in a fantasy.

    The irony is that Student Fees are the worst kind of hard left Socialism. That driven purely and solely by the politics of Envy. Where you identify a social or financial advantage that an individual has and then tax the living crap out of it.

    Because there is nothing contributory about Student Fees, they are purely and simply a tax on hard work, success and intellect. The worst kind of Socialism, focused on the aspirational and the striving.

    Yup, OK, whatever. But that does not take away form the fact that as a direct result of Scottish government policy Scottish students are being denied university places their grades merit.

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    FPT: More info on the new University of Central Lancashire Medical School is here:

    http://www.uclan.ac.uk/news/new_medical_degree.php

    They are hoping to get GMC approval in due course. Presumably they then could take UK students.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    antifrank said:

    If a speech is delivered at a Lib Dem conference, did it make a sound?

    No-one was there. We'll never know....
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    The LibDems' big problem is going to be getting heard at all. It's going to be a tough job rebuilding. The only short cut would be to attract a chunk of Labour defectors but that's a chicken-and-egg problem.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    fpt - made up words. My own is for those long horizontal escalators at airports. I call them lazyators.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Nice core vote speech...shame the core vote is only 5% or so
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    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited September 2015

    The LibDems' big problem is going to be getting heard at all. It's going to be a tough job rebuilding. The only short cut would be to attract a chunk of Labour defectors but that's a chicken-and-egg problem.

    Unfortunately for the Liberals, the defections are going the wrong way.

    http://www.cityam.com/224965/say-what-liberal-democrat-councillor-jennifer-churchill-defects-jeremy-corbyns-labour
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    edited September 2015
    ofc the LibDems have a massive opportunity. The trouble equally obviously is their paucity of MPs and "start up" nature of their organisation.

    Although not a huge fan of his, I thought Vince did a good job on Pienaar of acknowledging the successes of coalition and paying tribute to the Cons for what they achieved.

    Clegg, meanwhile, with his "as per usual, the Cons blame me for their failures but fail to acknowledge my successes" just sounded bitter and in denial. I had always been a fan of his but evidently he has been scarred.

    The LDs now have an opportunity to repeat, almost word-for-word, some reasonably but now jettisoned Lab policies about public oversight (if not ownership) of various elements in society, a caring capitalism and so forth (sadly by leading on housing he simply falls in with the rest, although we all acknowledge it is a huge issue).

    I thought UKIP also had that opportunity but, with Nige's flip-flops, they seem to have spunked it away.

    Oh and sorry to have missed the last thread. My contribution would have been:

    Damian McBride is a c**t.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Britain MUST take thousands of refugees from Europe, says Lib Dem Tim Farron in attack on Cameron's 'pitiful' response

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246142/Britain-thousands-refugees-Europe-says-Lib-Dem-Tim-Farron-attack-Cameron-s-pitiful-response.html#comments

    The man is a clown.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    The LibDems' big problem is going to be getting heard at all. It's going to be a tough job rebuilding. The only short cut would be to attract a chunk of Labour defectors but that's a chicken-and-egg problem.

    But the L/Dems did get a hearing at their conference this week by the MSM and PB. Will UKIP get the same consideration from PB and MSM when their conference begins tomorrow?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    fpt - made up words. My own is for those long horizontal escalators at airports. I call them lazyators.

    I've always liked "squaddling: the act of burning your bottom on a leather car seat"

    First used when, based on the inexperience of youth, I jumped into the back of a convertible that had been parked outside my uncle's house in greece for most of the day
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    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited September 2015

    Britain MUST take thousands of refugees from Europe, says Lib Dem Tim Farron in attack on Cameron's 'pitiful' response

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246142/Britain-thousands-refugees-Europe-says-Lib-Dem-Tim-Farron-attack-Cameron-s-pitiful-response.html#comments

    The man is a clown.

    Another political mouth happy to spend everyone else's money.

    How many has Farron taken into his own home? I'll take a guess. Zero.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,004

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
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    FPT

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Birmingham_New_Street_2015_v_2009.png

    Still looks gloomy as hell on the platforms. They should have reinstated a replica of the original Victorian roof.
    Honestly, I think London St Pancras International is the benchmark for both original Victorian architecture and refurbished 21st cen. structure.

    (snip)
    Absolutely. But of course St Pancras would be the benchmark: it was built by the Midland Railway, so it is obviously superb. :) The station at the northern end of that route, Manchester Central, has also made a rather splendiferous conference centre.

    Although apparently the new Midland Main Line station at St Pancras (built to replace the shed now used by Eurostars) is starting to have capacity problems as they did not build enough platforms.

    If true, this should really influence thinking about HS2 and Euston.

    As an aside, I see the pictures of the new New Street and wonder how well it will age and weather. Strangely, I don't get the same feeling about the new Kings Cross concourse.
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    UKIP conference soon, I'm interested to hear the tone
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited September 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    A 4% swing would pick up all of 11 seats. Except it won't, because of first time incumbency and/or boundary changes.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/lib-dem-targets/

    Edit: not that it's the wrong strategy; just to note how utterly fecked they are
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.

    Well he wont attract any ex BNPers , they have moved en block to UKIP ! Rather squeezes the LD's !
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    runnymede said:

    Nice core vote speech...shame the core vote is only 5% or so

    One can identify a Labour core vote; a Conservative core vote; even a UKIP core vote. But, I don't know what group can now be said to constitute the Lib Dem core vote.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.

    Yes, but even before that he needs to stabilise the support of those who have remained faithful. Stabilise the core, and build out from there. Makes good sense, and his speech seems well-judged from that point of view.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    The problem is that this was exactly the approach Clegg tried by being the party of the EU, including the Farage debate. It was a miserable failure of a strategy then too. The problem is that while there is a substantial minority who are pro-EU and pro-open borders, they either do not care enough to base their vote on the matter, already vote Lib Dem, or demand such ideological purity they will get offended and vote Green over some other transgression.
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    Dair is certainly right about Euan McColm, who is as miserable as it gets in a generally poor quality Scottish press corps. I seldom come across his stuff these days since I gave up on Scotland on Sunday during the referendum after 10 years as a subsriber. He was one of the many reasons.

    Occasionally BBC Scotland have him on the radio which he would be well advised to saty off given that stringing a coherent sentence together seems a big challange.

    On tuition fees I think the SNP have the rights of it given that a record number of Scottish students are at University this year not just degree level students in Scotland which is also at a record. Difficult to substantiate argument that people are being generally deprived of places against that simple statistic. Also to be considered is the fact that the students' loan system seems to be collapsing south of the border.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    I saw about 5-7 mins and he struck me as a bit of end-of-the-peer youth performer. And standing on rather a lot of ground occupied by Corbynistas.

    Sorry, I don't take him seriously - I find him rather too keen on being the *personality* rather than the deliverer of a message and that detracts from what he's saying. Farage does cheeky chappy well, Farron doesn't look old enough despite his chronological age.
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    fpt - made up words. My own is for those long horizontal escalators at airports. I call them lazyators.

    'kneesavers'
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    So I'm balls deep on Japan and Carlisle
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    MattW said:

    No. Make up more appropriate names.

    Lord Mandelbrot.

    That just made me think of 'Julia Sett'. A very complex but beautiful lady
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    FPT

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Birmingham_New_Street_2015_v_2009.png

    Still looks gloomy as hell on the platforms. They should have reinstated a replica of the original Victorian roof.
    Honestly, I think London St Pancras International is the benchmark for both original Victorian architecture and refurbished 21st cen. structure.

    (snip)
    Absolutely. But of course St Pancras would be the benchmark: it was built by the Midland Railway, so it is obviously superb. :) The station at the northern end of that route, Manchester Central, has also made a rather splendiferous conference centre.

    Although apparently the new Midland Main Line station at St Pancras (built to replace the shed now used by Eurostars) is starting to have capacity problems as they did not build enough platforms.

    If true, this should really influence thinking about HS2 and Euston.

    As an aside, I see the pictures of the new New Street and wonder how well it will age and weather. Strangely, I don't get the same feeling about the new Kings Cross concourse.
    That just leaves Euston station itself, a kind of southern counterpart to the 1960s New Street!

    Though the Doric arch is commemorated on the Victoria line platforms:

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8446/8018632856_21105236b2_m.jpg
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    A leader who isn't for gay marriage is quite an oddity. I've no idea what space in a political Venn diagram LDs occupy right now.

    EDIT @Charles mentioned one of his favourite words velleity. To want something to happen, but not actually be bothered enough to actually do something about it. That sums up my opinion of them right now.
    Sean_F said:

    runnymede said:

    Nice core vote speech...shame the core vote is only 5% or so

    One can identify a Labour core vote; a Conservative core vote; even a UKIP core vote. But, I don't know what group can now be said to constitute the Lib Dem core vote.
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    On topic I struggled to write pieces on the Lib Dem conference I wasn't sure how to approach it and I'm someone who greatly appreciated the Lib Dems.

    One of the pieces I half wrote was how Tim Farron would be cursing Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless and why Jeremy Corbyn would be praising those two.

    Their precedent makes it very difficult for people to defect now.

    Back in the 90s we had Tories defecting to the Lib Dems, we won't see that this time around I suspect so the Lib Dems have to make some sort of impact, which is why they are going to be pains in the arse in the House of Lords.

    I suspect Dave will go for the nuclear option and appoint 300 Tory life peers.
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    Britain MUST take thousands of refugees from Europe, says Lib Dem Tim Farron in attack on Cameron's 'pitiful' response

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246142/Britain-thousands-refugees-Europe-says-Lib-Dem-Tim-Farron-attack-Cameron-s-pitiful-response.html#comments

    The man is a clown.

    My mum called him "a clown" when we were watching the news at the weekend :lol:
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    regarding made up words, surely none can better the Blackadder:

    "Allow me to be the first to offer Dr. Johnson my most sincere contrafibularities! I am anaspeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused him such pericombobulation."
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    UKIP conference soon, I'm interested to hear the tone

    Tones - one from Carswell, one from Farage.
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    fpt - made up words. My own is for those long horizontal escalators at airports. I call them lazyators.

    Sadly a word for them already exists: Travelators
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    kle4 said:

    Well i guess it's a good lib dem speech for lib dems, problem is thats only about 10-15% of the population at it's max.

    I think if they could manage that amount again within 10 years they would be very happy indeed - ambition has probably be tempered.

    For the next election, the lib dems shoudl have 3 aims

    1) Keep the seats they have
    2) Replace 2/3 of the current MPs base with woman/ethinic minority faces (more the women than the EM)
    3) At a max win another 1 or two seats.

    I think that if you offered that now to Farron, he would more than delighted to take that.
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    Sean_F said:

    runnymede said:

    Nice core vote speech...shame the core vote is only 5% or so

    One can identify a Labour core vote; a Conservative core vote; even a UKIP core vote. But, I don't know what group can now be said to constitute the Lib Dem core vote.
    Conservative "boar" vote?

    (I'll get me coat)
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    UKIP conference soon, I'm interested to hear the tone

    Tones - one from Carswell, one from Farage.
    Two-tone at the UKIP conference? Bunch of rude boys.
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    fpt - made up words. My own is for those long horizontal escalators at airports. I call them lazyators.

    Sadly a word for them already exists: Travelators
    Isn't that a vibrator fitted with a travel adaptor?
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    The Bloomberg poll out today is the first I've seen where Hillary's lead nationally is below the 10% mark.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html
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    MikeK said:

    The LibDems' big problem is going to be getting heard at all. It's going to be a tough job rebuilding. The only short cut would be to attract a chunk of Labour defectors but that's a chicken-and-egg problem.

    But the L/Dems did get a hearing at their conference this week by the MSM and PB. Will UKIP get the same consideration from PB and MSM when their conference begins tomorrow?
    Maybe you could fill us in from time to time?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,004

    kle4 said:

    Well i guess it's a good lib dem speech for lib dems, problem is thats only about 10-15% of the population at it's max.

    I think if they could manage that amount again within 10 years they would be very happy indeed - ambition has probably be tempered.

    For the next election, the lib dems shoudl have 3 aims

    1) Keep the seats they have
    2) Replace 2/3 of the current MPs base with woman/ethinic minority faces (more the women than the EM)
    3) At a max win another 1 or two seats.

    I think that if you offered that now to Farron, he would more than delighted to take that.
    I think the LDs might win one or two of the SW London seats; Corbyn is not an attractive leader to the Red Liberals of leafy West London, and Heathrow could be a big issue in 2020. Finally, the "anti-Cable" vote won't be there.

    They may also pick up Cambridge; it's a Lib/Lab marginal and it doesn't feel Corbyn friendly to me. (The Libs may also pick a few tactical Tory votes given Corbybn...)
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    Japan v Scotland at Gloucester. Interesting venue choice. Gloucester play in red and white stripes, don't they?
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    regarding made up words, surely none can better the Blackadder:

    "Allow me to be the first to offer Dr. Johnson my most sincere contrafibularities! I am anaspeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused him such pericombobulation."

    Samuel Johnson: Not only have you impeculiated my dictionary, you have also lost the chance to act as patron to the only book in the world that is even better!

    Blackadder: Oh. And what is that, sir? "Dictionary 2: The Return of the Killer Dictionary"?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    The LibDems' big problem is going to be getting heard at all. It's going to be a tough job rebuilding. The only short cut would be to attract a chunk of Labour defectors but that's a chicken-and-egg problem.

    But the L/Dems did get a hearing at their conference this week by the MSM and PB. Will UKIP get the same consideration from PB and MSM when their conference begins tomorrow?
    Maybe you could fill us in from time to time?
    I won't be attending this year. I didn't fancy travelling to Doncaster, never did like the place.
    From what you write, Sunil, you also think that UKIP will get the silent treatment. Is that so?
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    fpt - made up words. My own is for those long horizontal escalators at airports. I call them lazyators.

    Sadly a word for them already exists: Travelators
    Way more prosaic in American English - 'moving walkways'

    I like the Irish for 'sleeping policeman' - 'traffic calmer' - but the English is better (and far better than the US 'speed bumps')
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    Japan v Scotland at Gloucester. Interesting venue choice. Gloucester play in red and white stripes, don't they?

    They do, though with black shorts.
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    UKIP conference soon, I'm interested to hear the tone

    Tones - one from Carswell, one from Farage.
    I think that's a fair point. I'm curious to see if its rabble rousing or Carswell's more measured approach, and indeed which gets most support.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,004

    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    A 4% swing would pick up all of 11 seats. Except it won't, because of first time incumbency and/or boundary changes.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/lib-dem-targets/

    Edit: not that it's the wrong strategy; just to note how utterly fecked they are
    If the LibDems go from 8 to 12 seats in 2020 they'll have had a good election.
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    JEO said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    The problem is that this was exactly the approach Clegg tried by being the party of the EU, including the Farage debate. It was a miserable failure of a strategy then too. The problem is that while there is a substantial minority who are pro-EU and pro-open borders, they either do not care enough to base their vote on the matter, already vote Lib Dem, or demand such ideological purity they will get offended and vote Green over some other transgression.
    This may fall into your first option but they also may want to have their vote counted rather than wasted so will vote either Conservative or Labour accordingly.

    The boon the Liberals had for most of the last twenty odd years is that they were everything to everyone so anti Tory voters felt safe going for them as did anti Labour voters.

    The problem this time is their strength became their weakness. Instead of being a vote against your opponents a vote for the Liberals is basically a glorified abstention. So anti Tory voters were lost because of the coalition but equally anti Labour (and even English anti SNP) voters felt a Liberal vote was too risky as they'd be ok jumping into bed with anyone.

    The Liberals need to define what they're FOR rather than being against but there's no evidence there's ever been a market for that.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Brilliant (of course) from @Adamstoon1 ... pic.twitter.com/hSFuMmjKwz

    — Xlibris1 (@Xlibris1) September 23, 2015

    Great Cartoon, but can that really be Merkel, much too young looking.
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    I saw about 5-7 mins and he struck me as a bit of end-of-the-peer youth performer. And standing on rather a lot of ground occupied by Corbynistas.

    Sorry, I don't take him seriously - I find him rather too keen on being the *personality* rather than the deliverer of a message and that detracts from what he's saying. Farage does cheeky chappy well, Farron doesn't look old enough despite his chronological age.

    They both come across as somewhat Archie Rice to me.
  • Options
    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited September 2015
    Try to Japan!

    Scotland 6 - 7 Japan
  • Options
    If they pull this off there won't be a dry Japanese eye in the house.
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    Frau Merkel is responsible for the migration fiasco. Her words implied virtually no limits even if that's not what she intended. No reason why the UK should make extraordinary efforts to help clear up the mess.
    With Germany basically leading the EU, the implication is that any bad decisions by Germany will have to be absorbed by other members.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,004
    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    Frau Merkel is responsible for the migration fiasco. Her words implied virtually no limits even if that's not what she intended. No reason why the UK should make extraordinary efforts to help clear up the mess.
    With Germany basically leading the EU, the implication is that any bad decisions by Germany will have to be absorbed by other members.

    Hungary and Slovakia are proving that - whatever QMV says - Germany cannot force others to do things against their will.

    This could play out one of several ways: it could mark the beginning of the end of the EU, or it could create a genuine core of European countries (maybe led by us), who work together for a different kind of EU.
  • Options

    I suspect Dave will go for the nuclear option and appoint 300 Tory life peers.

    Good luck TSE!
  • Options
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    The LibDems' big problem is going to be getting heard at all. It's going to be a tough job rebuilding. The only short cut would be to attract a chunk of Labour defectors but that's a chicken-and-egg problem.

    But the L/Dems did get a hearing at their conference this week by the MSM and PB. Will UKIP get the same consideration from PB and MSM when their conference begins tomorrow?
    Maybe you could fill us in from time to time?
    I won't be attending this year. I didn't fancy travelling to Doncaster, never did like the place.
    From what you write, Sunil, you also think that UKIP will get the silent treatment. Is that so?
    Probably - honestly, I can't remember the last time Nigel appeared on the Telly.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,004

    UKIP conference soon, I'm interested to hear the tone

    Tones - one from Carswell, one from Farage.
    I think that's a fair point. I'm curious to see if its rabble rousing or Carswell's more measured approach, and indeed which gets most support.

    Isn't the problem that rabble rousing goes down best with the party activists, but less well with wavering voters.
  • Options

    I suspect Dave will go for the nuclear option and appoint 300 Tory life peers.

    Good luck TSE!
    Thanks, I've just read Lord Sewel won't be charged with anything

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34328196
  • Options


    I suspect Dave will go for the nuclear option and appoint 300 Tory life peers.

    [whistling innocently]

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/637020695478824960

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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    This forum does not work very well on an ipad mini. Any solutions for ipad
  • Options

    UKIP conference soon, I'm interested to hear the tone

    Tones - one from Carswell, one from Farage.
    I think that's a fair point. I'm curious to see if its rabble rousing or Carswell's more measured approach, and indeed which gets most support.

    He was retweeting a UKIP PPC last night which I found interesting

    @PPCMaccUKIP: @DouglasCarswell would cheerfully vote for a motion to allow a quota of refugees. Most are economic migrants Carswell does not represent me.

    @PPCMaccUKIP: @Eastwood1A1 Not sure what you are talking about have you been drinking? Carswell sounds like a tory, looks like a tory because he is a tory
  • Options
    hucks67 said:

    This forum does not work very well on an ipad mini. Any solutions for ipad

    Are you viewing it on safari? 'Cause safari sucks.

    Download/use chrome instead
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    The only problem the Liberal Democrats have is that they don't really stand up for their signature issue: liberalism. As Farron said today, he seems to think liberalism is being "open", "united", "inclusive", and otherwise nice to people.

    That's not what liberalism is. Liberalism is believing in free speech, democratic governance, the rule of law, the free press and free markets. When was the last time we heard the Liberal Democrats stand up against encroachments against any of those?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    If they pull this off there won't be a dry Japanese eye in the house.

    Are you going to be following a cashout strategy or holding your underdog investments to maturity this WC :D ?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    If they pull this off there won't be a dry Japanese eye in the house.

    Are you going to be following a cashout strategy or holding your underdog investments to maturity this WC :D ?
    I won't be able to do anything today, meeting in a bit.

    I'm not really betting on this world cup like I did on the soccer world cup, bar laying England and backing Ireland and Wales.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    A 4% swing would pick up all of 11 seats. Except it won't, because of first time incumbency and/or boundary changes.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/lib-dem-targets/

    Edit: not that it's the wrong strategy; just to note how utterly fecked they are
    The first problem they have is hanging on to the seats they have in the boundary review:

    Leeds NW is a complete goner - it needs at least 13k votes added. Neither of the neighbouring seats Leeds NE or Pudsey have many LDs so this will be flipped to Lab if it isn't broken up (Leeds has large wards so will have big boundary changes)

    Southport needs about 10k votes added and has to take Tory voting Formby which should flip it to Con (although it might still be winnable if they can target tactical Lab voters)

    Carshalton looks very dicey. Both Sutton seats are too small while the Croydon seats are too big suggesting these boroughs will be paired. This likely means Carshalton losing a ward or 2 to Sutton and gaining some wards from either Croydon S or Central. This means it is likely to be flipped to Con as LDs have always been weak in Croydon.

    Ceridigion - needs about 20-25k voters added (as Welsh over-representation is being ended). Most likely it will end up adding The Preseli hills part of Pembrokeshire. The LDs are weak here but so are Plaid. Most likely the LDs will just hang on but this becomes more of a 3 or 4 way marginal with Lab and Con added to the mix

    North Norfolk needs about 6k voters adding. These are likely to come from the North Norfolk district wards in the Broadland seat where the LDs are quite weak. I think this will reduce Lamb's majority to about 1.5k

    Westmorland needs about 10k voters adding. My best guess is it will expand towards Keswick maybe knocking 2k off Farron's majority but still leaving him comfortably placed.

    Sheffield Hallam - is about the right size so is likely to be left alone

    Orkney - as a special area will not see any boundary changes but the LDs have other problems here
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    The LDs seem to be full of social democrats, not liberals. Unless it's sex and drugs - but not *Mr* Whippy and Page 3 or airbrushed adverts of wimmin.
    JEO said:

    The only problem the Liberal Democrats have is that they don't really stand up for their signature issue: liberalism. As Farron said today, he seems to think liberalism is being "open", "united", "inclusive", and otherwise nice to people.

    That's not what liberalism is. Liberalism is believing in free speech, democratic governance, the rule of law, the free press and free markets. When was the last time we heard the Liberal Democrats stand up against encroachments against any of those?

  • Options
    Why do people become such knobs on twitter or is it more twitter is a megaphone for idiots that didn't exist before?

    Teenage Milifandom leader Abby Tomlinson reports Twitter troll who said 'you're gonna get raped'

    http://bit.ly/1LNOZXb
  • Options
    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758

    hucks67 said:

    This forum does not work very well on an ipad mini. Any solutions for ipad

    Are you viewing it on safari? 'Cause safari sucks.

    Download/use chrome instead
    Chrome is not much better as the post comment button is covered by the green archived writing and it is a pain to use. Same on Safari and Opera.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    Frau Merkel is responsible for the migration fiasco. Her words implied virtually no limits even if that's not what she intended. No reason why the UK should make extraordinary efforts to help clear up the mess.
    With Germany basically leading the EU, the implication is that any bad decisions by Germany will have to be absorbed by other members.

    Hungary and Slovakia are proving that - whatever QMV says - Germany cannot force others to do things against their will.

    This could play out one of several ways: it could mark the beginning of the end of the EU, or it could create a genuine core of European countries (maybe led by us), who work together for a different kind of EU.
    Or it plays out as recent history shows that the poor nations do whatever Germany says. Ultimately Germany is threatening to cut funding to nations that don't accept the migration as voted on and all the nations that are against this are recipients.

    That's the problem. He who pays the piper calls the tune and Germany pay. The difference is that we pay too so want our own tune but are left out on our own.
  • Options
    hucks67 said:

    hucks67 said:

    This forum does not work very well on an ipad mini. Any solutions for ipad

    Are you viewing it on safari? 'Cause safari sucks.

    Download/use chrome instead
    Chrome is not much better as the post comment button is covered by the green archived writing and it is a pain to use. Same on Safari and Opera.
    Try here

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussions/p1
  • Options

    Why do people become such knobs on twitter or is it more twitter is a megaphone for idiots that didn't exist before?

    Teenage Milifandom leader Abby Tomlinson reports Twitter troll who said 'you're gonna get raped'

    http://bit.ly/1LNOZXb

    "Too many Tweets make a Tw*t!"
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Why do people become such knobs on twitter or is it more twitter is a megaphone for idiots that didn't exist before?

    Teenage Milifandom leader Abby Tomlinson reports Twitter troll who said 'you're gonna get raped'

    http://bit.ly/1LNOZXb

    I know, right. Who could possibly think Miliband was cool?

    ... what, my coat?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Being one of the few net contributors has given us an almost unique position. We don't approve and will put our money where our mouth is. The rest are beholden in a rather unhealthy way.

    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    Frau Merkel is responsible for the migration fiasco. Her words implied virtually no limits even if that's not what she intended. No reason why the UK should make extraordinary efforts to help clear up the mess.
    With Germany basically leading the EU, the implication is that any bad decisions by Germany will have to be absorbed by other members.

    Hungary and Slovakia are proving that - whatever QMV says - Germany cannot force others to do things against their will.

    This could play out one of several ways: it could mark the beginning of the end of the EU, or it could create a genuine core of European countries (maybe led by us), who work together for a different kind of EU.
    Or it plays out as recent history shows that the poor nations do whatever Germany says. Ultimately Germany is threatening to cut funding to nations that don't accept the migration as voted on and all the nations that are against this are recipients.

    That's the problem. He who pays the piper calls the tune and Germany pay. The difference is that we pay too so want our own tune but are left out on our own.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited September 2015

    The first problem they have is hanging on to the seats they have in the boundary review:

    [detail snipped]

    Thanks for all that - assuming Clegg retires [Pugh might well too], it kinda confirms my view that they are looking at about 4/5 seats as their base case.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 904
    Is the ref's grandmother Scottish?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969


    I suspect Dave will go for the nuclear option and appoint 300 Tory life peers.

    [whistling innocently]

    twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/637020695478824960

    He could just revoke the 1999 Act, which would immediately allow many Tory hereditaries the right to sit in the Lords.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Great summary - are any incumbents likely to retire?

    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    snip

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    A 4% swing would pick up all of 11 seats. Except it won't, because of first time incumbency and/or boundary changes.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/lib-dem-targets/

    Edit: not that it's the wrong strategy; just to note how utterly fecked they are
    The first problem they have is hanging on to the seats they have in the boundary review:

    Leeds NW is a complete goner - it needs at least 13k votes added. Neither of the neighbouring seats Leeds NE or Pudsey have many LDs so this will be flipped to Lab if it isn't broken up (Leeds has large wards so will have big boundary changes)

    Southport needs about 10k votes added and has to take Tory voting Formby which should flip it to Con (although it might still be winnable if they can target tactical Lab voters)

    Carshalton looks very dicey. Both Sutton seats are too small while the Croydon seats are too big suggesting these boroughs will be paired. This likely means Carshalton losing a ward or 2 to Sutton and gaining some wards from either Croydon S or Central. This means it is likely to be flipped to Con as LDs have always been weak in Croydon.

    Ceridigion - needs about 20-25k voters added (as Welsh over-representation is being ended). Most likely it will end up adding The Preseli hills part of Pembrokeshire. The LDs are weak here but so are Plaid. Most likely the LDs will just hang on but this becomes more of a 3 or 4 way marginal with Lab and Con added to the mix

    North Norfolk needs about 6k voters adding. These are likely to come from the North Norfolk district wards in the Broadland seat where the LDs are quite weak. I think this will reduce Lamb's majority to about 1.5k

    Westmorland needs about 10k voters adding. My best guess is it will expand towards Keswick maybe knocking 2k off Farron's majority but still leaving him comfortably placed.

    Sheffield Hallam - is about the right size so is likely to be left alone

    Orkney - as a special area will not see any boundary changes but the LDs have other problems here
  • Options
    hucks67 said:

    This forum does not work very well on an ipad mini. Any solutions for ipad

    Yes. Throw it out and get a non-Apple product. ;)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited September 2015
    For all the jokes about cricket being hard to understand, Rugby Union must have the most impenetrable rules of almost all ball games.

    Great try saving tackle at the death of the half, there.
  • Options

    Great summary - are any incumbents likely to retire?

    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    snip

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    A 4% swing would pick up all of 11 seats. Except it won't, because of first time incumbency and/or boundary changes.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/lib-dem-targets/

    Edit: not that it's the wrong strategy; just to note how utterly fecked they are
    The first problem they have is hanging on to the seats they have in the boundary review:

    Leeds NW is a complete goner - it needs at least 13k votes added. Neither of the neighbouring seats Leeds NE or Pudsey have many LDs so this will be flipped to Lab if it isn't broken up (Leeds has large wards so will have big boundary changes)

    Southport needs about 10k votes added and has to take Tory voting Formby which should flip it to Con (although it might still be winnable if they can target tactical Lab voters)

    Carshalton looks very dicey. Both Sutton seats are too small while the Croydon seats are too big suggesting these boroughs will be paired. This likely means Carshalton losing a ward or 2 to Sutton and gaining some wards from either Croydon S or Central. This means it is likely to be flipped to Con as LDs have always been weak in Croydon.

    Ceridigion - needs about 20-25k voters added (as Welsh over-representation is being ended). Most likely it will end up adding The Preseli hills part of Pembrokeshire. The LDs are weak here but so are Plaid. Most likely the LDs will just hang on but this becomes more of a 3 or 4 way marginal with Lab and Con added to the mix

    North Norfolk needs about 6k voters adding. These are likely to come from the North Norfolk district wards in the Broadland seat where the LDs are quite weak. I think this will reduce Lamb's majority to about 1.5k

    Westmorland needs about 10k voters adding. My best guess is it will expand towards Keswick maybe knocking 2k off Farron's majority but still leaving him comfortably placed.

    Sheffield Hallam - is about the right size so is likely to be left alone

    Orkney - as a special area will not see any boundary changes but the LDs have other problems here
    Pugh in Southport will be 71 by 2020 so looks most likely to retire
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    An interesting series of three tweets by Rafael Behr:

    Criticism of Farron migration line based on distance from mainstream public opinion mistakes his strategy. He's pitching to people who feel like dissenters from mainstream on liberal issues like this. If Daily Mail does double-page spread attacking him as open-door, bleeding-heart, foreigner-loving softie, that's a comms win in his eyes.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/23/tim-farrons-speech-to-the-lib-dem-conference-politics-live

    I think that's right. Farron is not aiming for 25% or even 18%. He is seeing if he can take the LibDems from 8% to 12%. His actions need to be seen in that light.
    Frau Merkel is responsible for the migration fiasco. Her words implied virtually no limits even if that's not what she intended. No reason why the UK should make extraordinary efforts to help clear up the mess.
    With Germany basically leading the EU, the implication is that any bad decisions by Germany will have to be absorbed by other members.

    Hungary and Slovakia are proving that - whatever QMV says - Germany cannot force others to do things against their will.

    This could play out one of several ways: it could mark the beginning of the end of the EU, or it could create a genuine core of European countries (maybe led by us), who work together for a different kind of EU.
    Or it plays out as recent history shows that the poor nations do whatever Germany says. Ultimately Germany is threatening to cut funding to nations that don't accept the migration as voted on and all the nations that are against this are recipients.

    That's the problem. He who pays the piper calls the tune and Germany pay. The difference is that we pay too so want our own tune but are left out on our own.
    Fewer and fewer reasons to stay in
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,004


    The first problem they have is hanging on to the seats they have in the boundary review:

    Leeds NW is a complete goner - it needs at least 13k votes added. Neither of the neighbouring seats Leeds NE or Pudsey have many LDs so this will be flipped to Lab if it isn't broken up (Leeds has large wards so will have big boundary changes)

    Southport needs about 10k votes added and has to take Tory voting Formby which should flip it to Con (although it might still be winnable if they can target tactical Lab voters)

    Carshalton looks very dicey. Both Sutton seats are too small while the Croydon seats are too big suggesting these boroughs will be paired. This likely means Carshalton losing a ward or 2 to Sutton and gaining some wards from either Croydon S or Central. This means it is likely to be flipped to Con as LDs have always been weak in Croydon.

    Ceridigion - needs about 20-25k voters added (as Welsh over-representation is being ended). Most likely it will end up adding The Preseli hills part of Pembrokeshire. The LDs are weak here but so are Plaid. Most likely the LDs will just hang on but this becomes more of a 3 or 4 way marginal with Lab and Con added to the mix

    North Norfolk needs about 6k voters adding. These are likely to come from the North Norfolk district wards in the Broadland seat where the LDs are quite weak. I think this will reduce Lamb's majority to about 1.5k

    Westmorland needs about 10k voters adding. My best guess is it will expand towards Keswick maybe knocking 2k off Farron's majority but still leaving him comfortably placed.

    Sheffield Hallam - is about the right size so is likely to be left alone

    Orkney - as a special area will not see any boundary changes but the LDs have other problems here

    Thanks for this; very interesting. I suspect that the unique circumstances of Heathrow expansion mean they will hold Carshalton - but we do need to think of the LDs are starting on say 5 or 6 seats in 2015 and not 8.
  • Options
    Has Clegg given any indication as to whether he'll stay on in 2020? I can't see why he'd want to frankly.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:


    The first problem they have is hanging on to the seats they have in the boundary review:

    Leeds NW is a complete goner - it needs at least 13k votes added. Neither of the neighbouring seats Leeds NE or Pudsey have many LDs so this will be flipped to Lab if it isn't broken up (Leeds has large wards so will have big boundary changes)

    Southport needs about 10k votes added and has to take Tory voting Formby which should flip it to Con (although it might still be winnable if they can target tactical Lab voters)

    Carshalton looks very dicey. Both Sutton seats are too small while the Croydon seats are too big suggesting these boroughs will be paired. This likely means Carshalton losing a ward or 2 to Sutton and gaining some wards from either Croydon S or Central. This means it is likely to be flipped to Con as LDs have always been weak in Croydon.

    Ceridigion - needs about 20-25k voters added (as Welsh over-representation is being ended). Most likely it will end up adding The Preseli hills part of Pembrokeshire. The LDs are weak here but so are Plaid. Most likely the LDs will just hang on but this becomes more of a 3 or 4 way marginal with Lab and Con added to the mix

    North Norfolk needs about 6k voters adding. These are likely to come from the North Norfolk district wards in the Broadland seat where the LDs are quite weak. I think this will reduce Lamb's majority to about 1.5k

    Westmorland needs about 10k voters adding. My best guess is it will expand towards Keswick maybe knocking 2k off Farron's majority but still leaving him comfortably placed.

    Sheffield Hallam - is about the right size so is likely to be left alone

    Orkney - as a special area will not see any boundary changes but the LDs have other problems here

    Thanks for this; very interesting. I suspect that the unique circumstances of Heathrow expansion mean they will hold Carshalton - but we do need to think of the LDs are starting on say 5 or 6 seats in 2015 and not 8.
    Isn't that normal practice for major boundary reviews? To say a notional starting point for each party?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    As you're about - do you have any idea what caused my @Plato account to stop working properly? It seemed to happen after I posted a linked tweet.

    I'd like to go back to it just for simplicity if it's possible. No probs if not.
    rcs1000 said:


    The first problem they have is hanging on to the seats they have in the boundary review:

    Leeds NW is a complete goner - it needs at least 13k votes added. Neither of the neighbouring seats Leeds NE or Pudsey have many LDs so this will be flipped to Lab if it isn't broken up (Leeds has large wards so will have big boundary changes)

    Southport needs about 10k votes added and has to take Tory voting Formby which should flip it to Con (although it might still be winnable if they can target tactical Lab voters)

    Carshalton looks very dicey. Both Sutton seats are too small while the Croydon seats are too big suggesting these boroughs will be paired. This likely means Carshalton losing a ward or 2 to Sutton and gaining some wards from either Croydon S or Central. This means it is likely to be flipped to Con as LDs have always been weak in Croydon.

    Ceridigion - needs about 20-25k voters added (as Welsh over-representation is being ended). Most likely it will end up adding The Preseli hills part of Pembrokeshire. The LDs are weak here but so are Plaid. Most likely the LDs will just hang on but this becomes more of a 3 or 4 way marginal with Lab and Con added to the mix

    North Norfolk needs about 6k voters adding. These are likely to come from the North Norfolk district wards in the Broadland seat where the LDs are quite weak. I think this will reduce Lamb's majority to about 1.5k

    Westmorland needs about 10k voters adding. My best guess is it will expand towards Keswick maybe knocking 2k off Farron's majority but still leaving him comfortably placed.

    Sheffield Hallam - is about the right size so is likely to be left alone

    Orkney - as a special area will not see any boundary changes but the LDs have other problems here

    Thanks for this; very interesting. I suspect that the unique circumstances of Heathrow expansion mean they will hold Carshalton - but we do need to think of the LDs are starting on say 5 or 6 seats in 2015 and not 8.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm amazed he's still an MP and not a eurocrat - does anyone know why? He seems ideally suited it and would fit right in.

    Has Clegg given any indication as to whether he'll stay on in 2020? I can't see why he'd want to frankly.

  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,733
    edited September 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    Thanks for this; very interesting. I suspect that the unique circumstances of Heathrow expansion mean they will hold Carshalton - but we do need to think of the LDs are starting on say 5 or 6 seats in 2015 and not 8.

    The only other possibility is that they could (theoretically at least) gain a seat in the boundary review. If (for example) Yeovil or Wells takes the most Lib Dem voting parts of Somerton and Frome. Only really going to be one of the Somerset seats where they might pick one up though that I can see.
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,733

    I'm amazed he's still an MP and not a eurocrat - does anyone know why? He seems ideally suited it and would fit right in.

    Has Clegg given any indication as to whether he'll stay on in 2020? I can't see why he'd want to frankly.

    My understanding is that he would, but doesn't want to lose the Lib Dems a seat (which is likely in a by-election scenario)
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Good point. Thanx.
    Lennon said:

    I'm amazed he's still an MP and not a eurocrat - does anyone know why? He seems ideally suited it and would fit right in.

    Has Clegg given any indication as to whether he'll stay on in 2020? I can't see why he'd want to frankly.

    My understanding is that he would, but doesn't want to lose the Lib Dems a seat (which is likely in a by-election scenario)
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