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  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,553
    I feel genuinely sympathetic to sensible left wing posters here, whose party is about to pass into the control of loons.
  • You buy a paper one morning. Its headline reads "Tragedy strikes as man killed". You would presume that we're supposed to feel sorry for him.

    If, on page 3, it says "he should instead have been arrested" then you'd rightly feel that the headline was wrong.

    Only rose tinted glasses can read into Corbyn's comments the context - if we assume he did mean what he know says - that was badly omitted from the headline.

    I feel sorry for Corbyn in this instance.

    However, as much as I'm loathe to quote Richard Littlejohn on Ken Livingstone, You get the feeling he's never met a terrorist he didn't like.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    More from that FT article:

    When the Scottish parliament was created in 1999, Scotland spent a higher share of its budget on health and education than England. In government, the SNP has allowed spending in these areas to decline as a proportion of overall expenditure while increasing the money that goes on culture, transport, economic development and free personal care for the elderly. This shift is something Scots can ill-afford.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html#ixzz3kQ8Fr5MU
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,055
    Monmouth University Iowa GOP Caucus

    Carson – 23% (8)
    Trump – 23% (13)
    Fiorina – 10% (3)
    Cruz – 9% (7)
    Walker – 7% (22)
    Bush – 5% (7)
    Kasich – 4% (2)
    Rubio – 4% (5)
    Paul – 3% (5)
    Huckabee – 2% (6)
    Santorum – 2% (3)
    Christie – 1% (1)
    Jindal – 1% (4)
    Perry – 1% (3)
    Pataki – * (*)
    Gilmore – 0% (0)
    Graham – 0% (0)
    Undecided – 5% (11)
    http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/85775b52-ec99-4ad3-bbee-14826bdf86e5.pdf
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,553
    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland


    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    I wonder why (not really) you missed out the preamble to the preceding question:

    Britain's nuclear weapon system, Trident, is currently based in Scotland. In the event Scotland becomes independent the Scottish government have said they would no.

    So having told Scots their government is opposed....ooh look! They don't like it!

    I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
    The UK as a whole wants a nuclear weapons system, with 31% wanting a less powerful one than Trident, 25% replacing Trident and 25% giving up Trident completely

    In terms of submarines while 43% of Scots do not want submarine based nuclear weapons, 29% want a nuclear submarine always on patrol and 17% want a cheaper system but where nuclear submarines are not always on patrol. So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ksx1tw2rj8/TimesResults_150126_Trident_Website.pdf
    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !
    Maybe, but Corbyn does not want any deterrent at all
    I don't think he wants any armed forces at all.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    surbiton said:

    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !

    If you want a continuous at-sea deterrent, then there is obviously a minimum number of boats required. One at sea, one under repair, and one training; it's easy to extend that to a fourth boat to guarantee continuity at sea (e.g. two under repair, or one going on patrol as another is coming off, etc, etc).

    You may be able to get away with three; it would be impossible to get continuous deterrent with just two boats.

    As an example, the French have four Triomphant-class subs.
    And there is no dispute in France about replacing and updating the system. No one in France is a thick as either Corbyn or Sturgeon, two peas in a pod.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    edited August 2015
    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be. Corbyn's most recent tweet talks about Labour becoming a movement, as apposed to a party machine which exists to provide a career for the political elite:

    https://twitter.com/Corbyn4Leader/status/638423287735955457
  • SeanT said:

    You buy a paper one morning. Its headline reads "Tragedy strikes as man killed". You would presume that we're supposed to feel sorry for him.

    If, on page 3, it says "he should instead have been arrested" then you'd rightly feel that the headline was wrong.

    Only rose tinted glasses can read into Corbyn's comments the context - if we assume he did mean what he know says - that was badly omitted from the headline.

    I feel sorry for Corbyn in this instance.

    However, as much as I'm loathe to quote Richard Littlejohn on Ken Livingstone, You get the feeling he's never met a terrorist he didn't like.
    Anders Breivik. I have a funny feeling Corbyn might not offer tea to Anders Breivik. Not even to "open channels of communication.".
    Wasn't it you who insisted Breivik's attacks were perpetrated by an Islamist?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,055
    ConservativeHome Tory Mayoral candidate poll

    Zac Goldsmith 62%
    Syed Kamall 26%
    Andrew Boff 7%
    Stephen Greenlagh 6%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/08/london-mayoral-conservative-candidate-poll-three-in-five-party-member-respondents-favour-zac-goldsmith.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,055
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland


    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    I wonder why (not really) you missed out the preamble to the preceding question:

    Britain's nuclear weapon system, Trident, is currently based in Scotland. In the event Scotland becomes independent the Scottish government have said they would no.

    So having told Scots their government is opposed....ooh look! They don't like it!

    I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
    The UK as a whole wants a nuclear weapons system, with 31% wanting a less powerful one than Trident, 25% replacing Trident and 25% giving up Trident completely

    In terms of submarines while 43% of Scots do not want submarine based nuclear weapons, 29% want a nuclear submarine always on patrol and 17% want a cheaper system but where nuclear submarines are not always on patrol. So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ksx1tw2rj8/TimesResults_150126_Trident_Website.pdf
    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !
    Maybe, but Corbyn does not want any deterrent at all
    I don't think he wants any armed forces at all.
    I expect he might set up a Peace Corps of Aid Workers instead
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be. Corbyn's most recent tweet talks about Labour becoming a movement;

    twitter.com/Corbyn4Leader/status/638423287735955457

    Establishment attacks ?? Please do keep all this up - I'm loving it. I'm also loving Corbyn's gobbledegook. Less of a machine more of a logo.
    It really is wonderful that you are totally blind to what you say.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,553
    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be. Corbyn's most recent tweet talks about Labour becoming a movement, as apposed to a party machine which exists to provide a career for the political elite:

    https://twitter.com/Corbyn4Leader/status/638423287735955457

    These attacks resonate in Middle England.
  • Sean_F said:

    I feel genuinely sympathetic to sensible left wing posters here, whose party is about to pass into the control of loons.

    Any sensible left-winger, who wants pragmatic ways to give rise to their vision of Britain, should be thinking about creating/joining a party that is genuine and credible. The Labour party for sure isn't their home.
  • SeanT said:

    You buy a paper one morning. Its headline reads "Tragedy strikes as man killed". You would presume that we're supposed to feel sorry for him.

    If, on page 3, it says "he should instead have been arrested" then you'd rightly feel that the headline was wrong.

    Only rose tinted glasses can read into Corbyn's comments the context - if we assume he did mean what he know says - that was badly omitted from the headline.

    I feel sorry for Corbyn in this instance.

    However, as much as I'm loathe to quote Richard Littlejohn on Ken Livingstone, You get the feeling he's never met a terrorist he didn't like.
    Anders Breivik. I have a funny feeling Corbyn might not offer tea to Anders Breivik. Not even to "open channels of communication.".
    Anders Breivik? That's when you were suggesting internment camps for all Muslims in Europe?
  • Anyway - 11 more sleeps until Corbyn becomes Labour leader
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Omnium said:

    The Sun are hinting they've got a mahoosive story on Boris.

    Will publish in about 49 mins time.

    I'm guessing its not this:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/boris-johnson-is-planning-a-cruise-ship-terminal-for-london--but-what-about-his-promise-for-cleaner-air-10479540.html
    Why would you link that? Lord knows why the Independent see fit to publish it anyway. It says for example -
    "Air pollution can be deadly to those with heart and lung disease, asthma and all respiratory conditions. But death is rarely instantaneous."
    There really is no need to read further.
    The problem appears to be that the new terminal will not supply electricity, so the ships will have to sit there generating their own and polluting the atmosphere in the process. Leaving aside the melodramatic reporting, it is hard to imagine quite how this got through planning without someone raising an eyebrow.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    from Flightpath01
    'What a bozo you are.
    Saddam was in breach of the ceasefire agreement which ended the Gulf war. Well it ended the fighting of the Gulf War but it did not end the war. In breaking the ceasefire Saddam laid himself open to further attack.
    Do you get that?
    Poland was a legal independent at peace country invaded without cause. Saddam's Iraq was a country which had invaded Kuwait and was finally evicted by international coalition. It was Saddam after that who should have been put on trial. Instead the ceasefire allowed him to say in power under certain conditions which he broke (not least by his Republican Guard massacring his opponents).
    Yet you in your bigotry try to tell us that Bush and Blair are worse than Hitler and Nazi Germany. Get stu##ed.'

    You have long revealed yourself to be one of the nastier pieces of work on this board - clearly a fully paid up member of the Arbeit Macht Frei wing of the Tory party.
    Whether or not Hussein was in breach of the ceasefire agreement any further action to enforce it required the support of the Security Council. That was certainly Koffi Annan's view and I am inclined to attach more weight to that than to the opinions of you - and the criminals who authorised the unprovoked attack.
    As for bigotry , I suggest that you read what I actually said rather making everything up as you go along. I did not mention Poland though it is fair to say that Iraq was as much at peace in 2003 as was Poland in 1939 . Why not address your ignorance by actually reading the Nuremburg indictments and so increase the possibility of making intelligent comment on the matter? Blair and Bush planned the 2003 attack on Iraq - Hans Blix needs no convincing of that. How many of the Nuremburg defendants planned the attack on Poland? Goering certainly did not.

    Oh yes he did!! As head of the Luftwaffe he was intimately involved
    But you miss the point - he did not wish to go to war!
  • Anyway - 11 more sleeps until Corbyn becomes Labour leader

    Blairite Messenger: Choose your next words carefully, Mr. Corbyn. They may be your last as Labour Leader.

    Jeremy Corbyn: [to himself: thinking] "Earth and water"?
    [Corbyn unsheathes and points his sword at the Blairite Messenger's throat]

    Blairite Messenger: Madman! You're a madman!

    Jeremy Corbyn: Earth and water? You'll find plenty of both down there.

    Blairite Messenger: No man, Blairite or Marxist, no man threatens a messenger!

    Jeremy Corbyn: You bring the ashes and ruins of conquered Trades Unions to Islington's city steps. You insult my wife. You threaten my Party with slavery and death! Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Bankster. Perhaps you should have done the same!

    Blairite Messenger: This is blasphemy! This is madness!

    Jeremy Corbyn: Madness...? This is LABOUR!
    [kicks the Blairite Messenger down the well]
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    calum said:

    I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be.

    Great, isn't it?!
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    J 124,,Maybe he should have taken an office job
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    lg 1983 That is a view I suppose.. but if you are a cleaner in Faslane.. which is an incredibly busy facility.. then you don't actually give a fuck who you are cleaning for.. just keep the paycheck coming in.. or would you rather they all went back onto benefits..

    That's the point - if they're not employed to a purpose they are in effect on benefits.
    Is that rare in the public sector?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be.

    2 theories - they think he's done enough to win already, so time to start with the attacks to solidify a view of Corbyn among voters in general, not just those tuning in to the labour leadership contest (something they will intensify when he actually wins), or they want to do that and give Corbyn a final boost from potential waverers, who will be more likely to vote for him when they see Tories gunning for him, to ensure he gets over the line.

    Use all their big attacks now and they'll have less impact later, to be sure, but if they can make him seem unelectable now, it won't matter as much, though the risk would be if he managed to pull through and not seem so bad later, undermining future attacks and the big stuff has been used.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be.

    2 theories - they think he's done enough to win already, so time to start with the attacks to solidify a view of Corbyn among voters in general, not just those tuning in to the labour leadership contest (something they will intensify when he actually wins), or they want to do that and give Corbyn a final boost from potential waverers, who will be more likely to vote for him when they see Tories gunning for him, to ensure he gets over the line.

    Use all their big attacks now and they'll have less impact later, to be sure, but if they can make him seem unelectable now, it won't matter as much, though the risk would be if he managed to pull through and not seem so bad later, undermining future attacks and the big stuff has been used.
    It's all about first impressions.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,914

    Omnium said:

    The Sun are hinting they've got a mahoosive story on Boris.

    Will publish in about 49 mins time.

    I'm guessing its not this:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/boris-johnson-is-planning-a-cruise-ship-terminal-for-london--but-what-about-his-promise-for-cleaner-air-10479540.html
    Why would you link that? Lord knows why the Independent see fit to publish it anyway. It says for example -
    "Air pollution can be deadly to those with heart and lung disease, asthma and all respiratory conditions. But death is rarely instantaneous."
    There really is no need to read further.
    The problem appears to be that the new terminal will not supply electricity, so the ships will have to sit there generating their own and polluting the atmosphere in the process. Leaving aside the melodramatic reporting, it is hard to imagine quite how this got through planning without someone raising an eyebrow.
    There may be some issues with what is being proposed. My issue though is with the nonsense that is in the link. This is not journalism - it's just rubbish.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    HYUFD said:

    ConservativeHome Tory Mayoral candidate poll

    Zac Goldsmith 62%
    Syed Kamall 26%
    Andrew Boff 7%
    Stephen Greenlagh 6%
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/08/london-mayoral-conservative-candidate-poll-three-in-five-party-member-respondents-favour-zac-goldsmith.html

    I prefer Kamall, but I think Zac would be mostly likely to win vs Labour.

    I think I will vote Kamall anyway, probably better for the Tories in the long run and the difference in 2016 won't be massive.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be.

    2 theories - they think he's done enough to win already, so time to start with the attacks to solidify a view of Corbyn among voters in general, not just those tuning in to the labour leadership contest (something they will intensify when he actually wins), or they want to do that and give Corbyn a final boost from potential waverers, who will be more likely to vote for him when they see Tories gunning for him, to ensure he gets over the line.

    Use all their big attacks now and they'll have less impact later, to be sure, but if they can make him seem unelectable now, it won't matter as much, though the risk would be if he managed to pull through and not seem so bad later, undermining future attacks and the big stuff has been used.
    They would have almost 4 years to do this. Also why do they need to attack the guy will self destruct all by himself so all they neede to do is observe from the sidelines.

    How do they know he's done enough to win though. We very quickly have gone back to believing polls. Did we or they learn nothing from May 7th?
  • The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0
  • The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Close shave!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    I don't see how Boris can recover from this.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    He has to go. He cannot possibly survive this.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    n.b. sill can't believe I got 9/10 even after Goldsmith announced his candidacy. (I know other people got long odds, further out though!)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Moses_ said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    He has to go. He cannot possibly survive this.
    As someone who has never paid for a haircut, I agree. Such wasteful spending.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    surbiton said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    The party of incompetence will probably increase its majority next year - a feat that is extremely difficult to achieve given their electoral system.

    Scotland always was a separate country and it was forced to join the Union in 1707. They should be free.

    Didn't they just have a vote on something like this? Will the SNP have something on this in their manifesto for their local elections?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    lg 1983.. Only in your world do cleaners, cooks and ancillary staff not count as productive workers..Bizarre.
    .


  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    from Flightpath01
    ..

    You have long revealed yourself to be one of the nastier pieces of work on this board - clearly a fully paid up member of the Arbeit Macht Frei wing of the Tory party.
    Whether or not Hussein was in breach of the ceasefire agreement any further action to enforce it required the support of the Security Council. That was certainly Koffi Annan's view and I am inclined to attach more weight to that than to the opinions of you - and the criminals who authorised the unprovoked attack.
    As for bigotry , I suggest that you read what I actually said rather making everything up as you go along. I did not mention Poland though it is fair to say that Iraq was as much at peace in 2003 as was Poland in 1939 . Why not address your ignorance by actually reading the Nuremburg indictments and so increase the possibility of making intelligent comment on the matter? Blair and Bush planned the 2003 attack on Iraq - Hans Blix needs no convincing of that. How many of the Nuremburg defendants planned the attack on Poland? Goering certainly did not.

    Oh yes he did!! As head of the Luftwaffe he was intimately involved
    But you miss the point - he did not wish to go to war!
    ?
    Are you serious? (I mean your dimwitted death camp remark just shows you up - thats not your joke)
    You are trying to justify your barmy war crime obsession by suggesting Goering did not help plan the invasion of Poland?
    You are trying to compare the invasion/annexation of totally innocent but in the way Poland with Saddam's continued breaking of ceasefires after the Gulf War and his regular massacring on his own awkward countrymen. And of course you are failing completely. And when caught out you change from 'planning the war' which Goering did, to 'wanting the war'. If he had his doubts it was because he wanted more planes and bombs to kill more Poles before getting stuck in.
    But Goering along with Army Chief Keitel as one example was indicted on charges of ''Conspiracy to Wage Aggressive War''. And found guilty.
    and “the planning, preparation, initiation, and waging of wars of aggression, which were also wars in violation of international treaties, agreements, and assurances.” - and found Guilty.
    Goering said ''I must take 100 percent responsibility. I even overruled objections by the Fuehrer and brought everything to its final development''

    And of course the invasion of Iraq was not a war of aggression or conquest or territorial gain. It was a war to remove a dictator who had broken international treaties and replace him with a freely elected government. A war not to eliminate democracy but to create it.
    You are a grade 1 dummo bozo.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2015

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    I don't see how Boris can recover from this.
    Comb Game over.....
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    On topic: Osborne's announcement might not have been aimed at Osborne. The Chancellor is heir to Brown in wanting to run the country from the Treasury, and has also made other announcements that might otherwise have been left to the relevant ministers: on the new gas field and on education. One might almost think David Cameron has announced he will not serve a third term. The contrast is clear: Osborne acts; Boris has his hair cut.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    It is interesting how the Tories are dealing with Jezza. Do they go easy on him and run the risk that he gains traction, or do they whack him now, knowing that Labour may well find a more electable leader for 2020.

    Obviously Osborne supports the latter strategy. Hit the enemy when they are at their weakest, and just hope that they stay weak. It is by far the safer strategy, and the one that I would probably employ.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0


    It would have been a grand contender for 'Silly Season Story of the Year'

    ....(un)fortunately Labour beat him to it.....
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
    Struck a nerve, sensitive about being in a tax haven. We mortals pay dearly to keep you tax free.
    No nerve, but delighted to see further ignorance on display.

    What exactly do you 'pay'?
    Thousands a month in fact, I am not a tax avoider , I pay my way.
    A rich SNPer. We won't tell.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    More from that FT article:

    When the Scottish parliament was created in 1999, Scotland spent a higher share of its budget on health and education than England. In government, the SNP has allowed spending in these areas to decline as a proportion of overall expenditure while increasing the money that goes on culture, transport, economic development and free personal care for the elderly. This shift is something Scots can ill-afford.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html#ixzz3kQ8Fr5MU

    This is a tricksy argument. "as a proportion of overall expenditure" - everything has to sum to 1. There's no God-given reason why the share of NHS spending in other spending ought to be constant over time, especially if health-related spending like personal care for the elderly is one of the relative growth categories.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
    So those on benefits have no such right. Nice.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
    Struck a nerve, sensitive about being in a tax haven. We mortals pay dearly to keep you tax free.
    No nerve, but delighted to see further ignorance on display.

    What exactly do you 'pay'?
    Thousands a month in fact, I am not a tax avoider , I pay my way.
    A rich SNPer. We won't tell.
    Earning over £87,000....good for him - we Tories welcome industry and its reward!
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Moses_ said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    He has to go. He cannot possibly survive this.
    Yes. Hair today, gone tomorrow.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
    So those on benefits have no such right. Nice.
    People on benefits pay plenty of tax.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    I wonder if Corbyn will talk sympathetically about the plight of Boris' hair. "Those poor strands, violently and with malice aforethought cut asunder by sharp blade from their neighbours, like peace-loving IS soldiers cut down by American bombs... we must remember the plight of those poor strands, which have been lost as a result of the vanity of a TORY. It is truly a tragedy on the scale of the sinking of the Titanic (caused by arms smuggled by the US in preparation for WW1) or the sinking of the Kursk (caused by a US death ray operated from deep within the heart of Margaret Fatcha's grave."
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    EPG said:

    More from that FT article:

    When the Scottish parliament was created in 1999, Scotland spent a higher share of its budget on health and education than England. In government, the SNP has allowed spending in these areas to decline as a proportion of overall expenditure while increasing the money that goes on culture, transport, economic development and free personal care for the elderly. This shift is something Scots can ill-afford.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html#ixzz3kQ8Fr5MU

    This is a tricksy argument. "as a proportion of overall expenditure" - everything has to sum to 1. There's no God-given reason why the share of NHS spending in other spending ought to be constant over time, especially if health-related spending like personal care for the elderly is one of the relative growth categories.
    Its not a 'tricksy argument'

    For a party that campaigned in the referendum to 'Save the Scottish NHS (which we run already) from the Tories', allocation of resources is a perfectly valid metric.

    As is the 'Free (subsidy for the rich at the cost of the poor) University Places program.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism.
    It provides a very temporary and very localised diversion from occasional over seriousness. Harmless, and it is supposed to be silly season after all, which we were short changed on by getting an actually interesting and potentially transformative Labour leadership contest (for all the potential outcome amuses some people)
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Sean_F said:

    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be. Corbyn's most recent tweet talks about Labour becoming a movement, as apposed to a party machine which exists to provide a career for the political elite:

    https://twitter.com/Corbyn4Leader/status/638423287735955457

    These attacks resonate in Middle England.
    I think he may be talking about a bowel movement
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited August 2015

    surbiton said:

    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !

    If you want a continuous at-sea deterrent, then there is obviously a minimum number of boats required. One at sea, one under repair, and one training; it's easy to extend that to a fourth boat to guarantee continuity at sea (e.g. two under repair, or one going on patrol as another is coming off, etc, etc).

    You may be able to get away with three; it would be impossible to get continuous deterrent with just two boats.

    As an example, the French have four Triomphant-class subs.
    And there is no dispute in France about replacing and updating the system. No one in France is a thick as either Corbyn or Sturgeon, two peas in a pod.
    "No one"? There is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouvement_de_la_Paix for a start.

    I think the PCF is anti-nuke in a Corbynite vein, and they're more of a force than their British Commie equivalents: 138,000 members and a smattering of parliamentary representation; 11% of the vote at the last presidential election (and don't forget the Revolutionary Communist NPA nabbed 1% of the vote for themselves, and even the unreconstructedly mad Trots got half a percent). The British Left is relatively sane in comparison...until the last few months anyway.
  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    On topic: Osborne's announcement might not have been aimed at Osborne. The Chancellor is heir to Brown in wanting to run the country from the Treasury, and has also made other announcements that might otherwise have been left to the relevant ministers: on the new gas field and on education. One might almost think David Cameron has announced he will not serve a third term. The contrast is clear: Osborne acts; Boris has his hair cut.

    Osborne is the official Deputy Prime Minister. So how should he behave?
    Perhaps I should repeat that more slowly -- ''Osborne ... is ... the ... official ... Deputy ... Prime ... Minister''

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    a tragedy on the scale of the sinking of the Titanic (caused by arms smuggled by the US in preparation for WW1)
    Lusitania.....you'll give conspiracy theorists a bad name!
  • On topic: Osborne's announcement might not have been aimed at Osborne. The Chancellor is heir to Brown in wanting to run the country from the Treasury, and has also made other announcements that might otherwise have been left to the relevant ministers: on the new gas field and on education. One might almost think David Cameron has announced he will not serve a third term. The contrast is clear: Osborne acts; Boris has his hair cut.

    Osborne is the official Deputy Prime Minister. So how should he behave?
    Perhaps I should repeat that more slowly -- ''Osborne ... is ... the ... official ... Deputy ... Prime ... Minister''

    There is no official Deputy Prime Minister since Nick Clegg stood down.

    If you're going to be patronising, at least try and be accurate
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    a tragedy on the scale of the sinking of the Titanic (caused by arms smuggled by the US in preparation for WW1)
    Lusitania.....you'll give conspiracy theorists a bad name!
    What if I told you there were no icebergs in the North Atlantic that day?
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    How about a thread on:
    "Should a Scottish version of 'Strictly Come Dancing' use the AV system?" :wink:
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be.

    2 theories - they think he's done enough to win already, so time to start with the attacks to solidify a view of Corbyn among voters in general, not just those tuning in to the labour leadership contest (something they will intensify when he actually wins), or they want to do that and give Corbyn a final boost from potential waverers, who will be more likely to vote for him when they see Tories gunning for him, to ensure he gets over the line.

    Use all their big attacks now and they'll have less impact later, to be sure, but if they can make him seem unelectable now, it won't matter as much, though the risk would be if he managed to pull through and not seem so bad later, undermining future attacks and the big stuff has been used.
    This seems to presume that he won't carry on making a prick of himself. How likely is that?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    a tragedy on the scale of the sinking of the Titanic (caused by arms smuggled by the US in preparation for WW1)
    Lusitania.....you'll give conspiracy theorists a bad name!
    I know! I wanted the Titanic involved somehow, so merged the Lusy's conspiracy theory with the Titanic ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be.

    2 theories - they think he's done enough to win already, so time to start with the attacks to solidify a view of Corbyn among voters in general, not just those tuning in to the labour leadership contest (something they will intensify when he actually wins), or they want to do that and give Corbyn a final boost from potential waverers, who will be more likely to vote for him when they see Tories gunning for him, to ensure he gets over the line.

    Use all their big attacks now and they'll have less impact later, to be sure, but if they can make him seem unelectable now, it won't matter as much, though the risk would be if he managed to pull through and not seem so bad later, undermining future attacks and the big stuff has been used.
    This seems to presume that he won't carry on making a prick of himself. How likely is that?
    Well he will have a honeymoon period, surely, and even possibly a lead in the polls, so best to help it along just in case?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    On topic: Osborne's announcement might not have been aimed at Osborne. The Chancellor is heir to Brown in wanting to run the country from the Treasury, and has also made other announcements that might otherwise have been left to the relevant ministers: on the new gas field and on education. One might almost think David Cameron has announced he will not serve a third term. The contrast is clear: Osborne acts; Boris has his hair cut.

    Osborne is the official Deputy Prime Minister. So how should he behave?
    Perhaps I should repeat that more slowly -- ''Osborne ... is ... the ... official ... Deputy ... Prime ... Minister''

    Osborne is First Secretary of State, which is not the same thing.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0


    It would have been a grand contender for 'Silly Season Story of the Year'

    ....(un)fortunately Labour beat him to it.....
    Lots of times
  • Disraeli said:

    tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    How about a thread on:
    "Should a Scottish version of 'Strictly Come Dancing' use the AV system?" :wink:
    I was thinking Kirsty Gallacher winning Strictly Come Dancing is great for the SNP
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Boris. Hair apparent?

  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    "Strictly - the ultimate in BBC dumbing down" - discuss :)
  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    "Strictly - the ultimate in BBC dumbing down" - discuss :)
    Strictly alone makes the Licence Fee a bargain
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    EPG said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
    So those on benefits have no such right. Nice.
    People on benefits pay plenty of tax.
    All of them? I never knew.
  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    "Strictly - the ultimate in BBC dumbing down" - discuss :)
    Strictly alone makes the Licence Fee a bargain
    TV Poll Tax - viewers who are fed up with Strictly still have to pay!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    a tragedy on the scale of the sinking of the Titanic (caused by arms smuggled by the US in preparation for WW1)
    Lusitania.....you'll give conspiracy theorists a bad name!
    I know! I wanted the Titanic involved somehow, so merged the Lusy's conspiracy theory with the Titanic ...
    One of the best (in a completely barking way) Titanic movie is the one the Nazis made - one of their most expensive - (and biggest hit in occupied Europe) but never shown in Germany - 'British capitalists drive new liner across Atlantic to capture Blue Riband (couldn't remotely) to save company despite best efforts of heroic (and ahistorical) German Officer' - gorgeously B&W photography - unfortunately the director "committed suicide" in the care of the Gestapo half way through.....
  • EPG said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
    So those on benefits have no such right. Nice.
    People on benefits pay plenty of tax.
    All of them? I never knew.
    VAT?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    "Strictly - the ultimate in BBC dumbing down" - discuss :)
    Strictly alone makes the Licence Fee a bargain
    TV Poll Tax - viewers who are fed up with Strictly still have to pay!
    Everyone else is paying so I can watch Prorogation live. Am not going to rock the boat.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    calum said:

    I can't quite fathom why the Tories are joining in the establishment attacks on Corbyn. I think there's a risk that with so much blanket ABC from the MSM and Labour grandees, that voters become impervious to these attacks as the SNP seem to be.

    2 theories - they think he's done enough to win already, so time to start with the attacks to solidify a view of Corbyn among voters in general, not just those tuning in to the labour leadership contest (something they will intensify when he actually wins), or they want to do that and give Corbyn a final boost from potential waverers, who will be more likely to vote for him when they see Tories gunning for him, to ensure he gets over the line.

    Use all their big attacks now and they'll have less impact later, to be sure, but if they can make him seem unelectable now, it won't matter as much, though the risk would be if he managed to pull through and not seem so bad later, undermining future attacks and the big stuff has been used.
    This seems to presume that he won't carry on making a prick of himself. How likely is that?
    Well he will have a honeymoon period, surely, and even possibly a lead in the polls, so best to help it along just in case?
    I'm looking forward to finding out. Much more interesting than Strictly.
  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    "Strictly - the ultimate in BBC dumbing down" - discuss :)
    Strictly alone makes the Licence Fee a bargain
    TV Poll Tax - viewers who are fed up with Strictly still have to pay!
    How can anyone be fed up of this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8nO0tVyFds
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Great twitter account

    @isis_karaoke
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited August 2015
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:


    The UK as a whole wants a nuclear weapons system, with 31% wanting a less powerful one than Trident, 25% replacing Trident and 25% giving up Trident completely

    In terms of submarines while 43% of Scots do not want submarine based nuclear weapons, 29% want a nuclear submarine always on patrol and 17% want a cheaper system but where nuclear submarines are not always on patrol. So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ksx1tw2rj8/TimesResults_150126_Trident_Website.pdf

    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !
    This really is the worst myth of the UK's so called "deterrent".

    In truth the UK lacks enough nuclear firepower to completely obliterate Moscow Oblast (which, if focused in this way would mean zero impact on Russian military capabiility), at worst, the UK could give the Russians a bloody nose, history says Russia will always take a bloody nose if it gets what it wants.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    EPG said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
    So those on benefits have no such right. Nice.
    People on benefits pay plenty of tax.
    All of them? I never knew.
    VAT?
    All of them? I never knew
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Yet another massive explosion in a Chinese city, what in the name of god is going on over there.

    Democratic nomination:

    After posting the other day about Obama giving the nod to a Joe Biden presidential bid, the latest stories have it that he is looking at Elizabeth Warren as running mate.

    There is a lot of smoke signals and on balance, I think he might go.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    More from that FT article:

    When the Scottish parliament was created in 1999, Scotland spent a higher share of its budget on health and education than England. In government, the SNP has allowed spending in these areas to decline as a proportion of overall expenditure while increasing the money that goes on culture, transport, economic development and free personal care for the elderly. This shift is something Scots can ill-afford.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html#ixzz3kQ8Fr5MU

    So not only a better health service but better value for money.

    It's no wonder the SNP are cleaning up. Who would think a principled, competent governing party would do well!
  • EPG said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
    So those on benefits have no such right. Nice.
    People on benefits pay plenty of tax.
    All of them? I never knew.
    VAT?
    All of them? I never knew
    Depends what they buy, of course.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    What can I say, but you are right on all fronts.

    Actually, now I am at it, I am slightly awe struck by Boris's blonde, tousled, thatch. Possibly the best head of hair in modern politcis- though Heseltine could give him a run for his money.
    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism.
    It provides a very temporary and very localised diversion from occasional over seriousness. Harmless, and it is supposed to be silly season after all, which we were short changed on by getting an actually interesting and potentially transformative Labour leadership contest (for all the potential outcome amuses some people)
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    from Flightpath01
    ..

    Oh yes he did!! As head of the Luftwaffe he was intimately involved
    But you miss the point - he did not wish to go to war!
    ?
    Are you serious? (I mean your dimwitted death camp remark just shows you up - thats not your joke)
    You are trying to justify your barmy war crime obsession by suggesting Goering did not help plan the invasion of Poland?
    You are trying to compare the invasion/annexation of totally innocent but in the way Poland with Saddam's continued breaking of ceasefires after the Gulf War and his regular massacring on his own awkward countrymen. And of course you are failing completely. And when caught out you change from 'planning the war' which Goering did, to 'wanting the war'. If he had his doubts it was because he wanted more planes and bombs to kill more Poles before getting stuck in.
    But Goering along with Army Chief Keitel as one example was indicted on charges of ''Conspiracy to Wage Aggressive War''. And found guilty.
    and “the planning, preparation, initiation, and waging of wars of aggression, which were also wars in violation of international treaties, agreements, and assurances.” - and found Guilty.
    Goering said ''I must take 100 percent responsibility. I even overruled objections by the Fuehrer and brought everything to its final development''

    And of course the invasion of Iraq was not a war of aggression or conquest or territorial gain. It was a war to remove a dictator who had broken international treaties and replace him with a freely elected government. A war not to eliminate democracy but to create it.
    You are a grade 1 dummo bozo.

    The decision to go to war in 1939 was taken by Hitler with the active encouragement of Ribbentrop. There is no evidence that the other senior Nazis wanted a war. Goering made clear his opposition and worked to avoid it in the Summer of 1939. Even Goebbels was appalled by the idea. None of this is to deny that once the war got underway they went along with it - but had there been no Hitler there would have been no war at that time. Keitel was a military guy who simply did as he was told - in the same way that senior British commanders followed Blair's orders in 2003 despite having serious misgivings about the attack being lawful.
    As for the idea that the Iraq war was about removing Saddam , that contradicts what Blair said at the time when he expressly denied seeking regime change . It was about WDM and when they failed to appear he thought of something else.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    Disraeli said:

    tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    How about a thread on:
    "Should a Scottish version of 'Strictly Come Dancing' use the AV system?" :wink:
    I was thinking Kirsty Gallacher winning Strictly Come Dancing is great for the SNP
    :smiley:
  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    "Strictly - the ultimate in BBC dumbing down" - discuss :)
    Strictly alone makes the Licence Fee a bargain
    TV Poll Tax - viewers who are fed up with Strictly still have to pay!
    How can anyone be fed up of this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8nO0tVyFds
    If I want p0rn, I can stay up for Babestation - or XpandedTV :lol:
  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    Shouldn't we have something on AV instead to lighten the mood?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    a tragedy on the scale of the sinking of the Titanic (caused by arms smuggled by the US in preparation for WW1)
    Lusitania.....you'll give conspiracy theorists a bad name!
    I know! I wanted the Titanic involved somehow, so merged the Lusy's conspiracy theory with the Titanic ...
    One of the best (in a completely barking way) Titanic movie is the one the Nazis made - one of their most expensive - (and biggest hit in occupied Europe) but never shown in Germany - 'British capitalists drive new liner across Atlantic to capture Blue Riband (couldn't remotely) to save company despite best efforts of heroic (and ahistorical) German Officer' - gorgeously B&W photography - unfortunately the director "committed suicide" in the care of the Gestapo half way through.....
    I've never seen it, but the story's a classic.

    In the you-couldn't-make-it-up category, there was a woman who survived the sinking of the Titanic, and was on board the sister-ship Olympic when it collided with another ship.

    With that track record, it's a surprise they let her be a nurse on the third sister ship, the Britannic, when it was in war service. She survived that ship's sinking as well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violet_Jessop
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dair said:

    More from that FT article:

    When the Scottish parliament was created in 1999, Scotland spent a higher share of its budget on health and education than England. In government, the SNP has allowed spending in these areas to decline as a proportion of overall expenditure while increasing the money that goes on culture, transport, economic development and free personal care for the elderly. This shift is something Scots can ill-afford.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html#ixzz3kQ8Fr5MU

    So not only a better health service but better value for money!
    I'm sure the SNP will campaign on that!

    Pity they'll struggle with the facts....
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Dair said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:


    The UK as a whole wants a nuclear weapons system, with 31% wanting a less powerful one than Trident, 25% replacing Trident and 25% giving up Trident completely

    In terms of submarines while 43% of Scots do not want submarine based nuclear weapons, 29% want a nuclear submarine always on patrol and 17% want a cheaper system but where nuclear submarines are not always on patrol. So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ksx1tw2rj8/TimesResults_150126_Trident_Website.pdf

    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !
    This really is the worst myth of the UK's so called "deterrent".

    In truth the UK lacks enough nuclear firepower to completely obliterate Moscow Oblast (which, if focused in this way would mean zero impact on Russian military capabiility), at worst, the UK could give the Russians a bloody nose, history says Russia will always take a bloody nose if it gets what it wants.
    England's nuclear deterrent isn't aimed against Russia, Dair.

    It's aimed at our twin traditional enemies - France & Scotland.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,988
    edited August 2015

    tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    Shouldn't we have something on AV instead to lighten the mood?
    I've written quite the magnum opus on electoral reform for this Sunday on electoral reform.

    I'm planning to do several AV related threads once the Labour leadership result is known and we have the full voting breakdowns,
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dair said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:


    The UK as a whole wants a nuclear weapons system, with 31% wanting a less powerful one than Trident, 25% replacing Trident and 25% giving up Trident completely

    In terms of submarines while 43% of Scots do not want submarine based nuclear weapons, 29% want a nuclear submarine always on patrol and 17% want a cheaper system but where nuclear submarines are not always on patrol. So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ksx1tw2rj8/TimesResults_150126_Trident_Website.pdf

    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !
    In truth the UK lacks enough nuclear firepower to completely obliterate Moscow Oblast
    Who ever said it needed to?

    Its always been a 'weapon of appalling revenge'

    And that has been sufficient.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
    Still haven't answered the question - what are you paying for Guernsey?

    Hint - its 'nothing'.......

    Wrong again......

    Oh, and since you are an expert in my tax affairs, the basic rate of tax in Guernsey is the same as the UK and the personal allowance lower.....

    But what do you know......nothing.....
    I note you show lower only:)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,529

    SNP,s Scotland..Land of the Brave,The Free and the unemployed if you are a cleaner in Faslane..but who gives a shit.. you are only cleaners..

    why are you obsessed with cleaners
  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    Shouldn't we have something on AV instead to lighten the mood?
    I've written quite the magnum opus on electoral reform for this Sunday on electoral reform.

    I'm planning to do several AV related threads once the Labour leadership result is known and we have the full breakdowns known.
    On the subject of the Labour leadership.
    I've not received any emails from candidates since the 20th.
  • justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    from Flightpath01
    ..



    And of course the invasion of Iraq was not a war of aggression or conquest or territorial gain. It was a war to remove a dictator who had broken international treaties and replace him with a freely elected government. A war not to eliminate democracy but to create it.
    You are a grade 1 dummo bozo.

    The decision to go to war in 1939 was taken by Hitler with the active encouragement of Ribbentrop. There is no evidence that the other senior Nazis wanted a war. Goering made clear his opposition and worked to avoid it in the Summer of 1939. Even Goebbels was appalled by the idea. None of this is to deny that once the war got underway they went along with it - but had there been no Hitler there would have been no war at that time. Keitel was a military guy who simply did as he was told - in the same way that senior British commanders followed Blair's orders in 2003 despite having serious misgivings about the attack being lawful.
    As for the idea that the Iraq war was about removing Saddam , that contradicts what Blair said at the time when he expressly denied seeking regime change . It was about WDM and when they failed to appear he thought of something else.
    Justin, The Hosbach Conference in 1937 had already given the senior German leaders a plan to start aggressive wars in the East, if Britain and France could be kept out of the matter. Goering was present. It is perfectly true that Goering did not want war with Britain and France when the decision was taken to invade Poland (after the anexation of Czechslovakia) but Goering and the German Military and Political heirarchy knew that they intended to wage an aggressive war against Poland and hoped to keep the West out of it, a plot that might have succeeded. Chamberlain had had enough at Munich and finally saw the Nazis for what they were.

    I am not sure what this has with the Iraq war in 2003, though?
  • tyson said:

    The Sun story on Boris.

    Wow, just wow

    http://bit.ly/1MYkLF0

    Can we please not peddle this narcissistic stuff. It is not newsworthy, it is not interesting and it only lowers us all the lowest common denominator of celebrity cultism- I'd prefer to spend my time watching Big Brother to be honest.
    1) My stint as Guest Editor starts this week

    2) Strictly Come Dancing begins this week

    3) I like Strictly

    1+2+3 = A strictly thread.
    Shouldn't we have something on AV instead to lighten the mood?
    I've written quite the magnum opus on electoral reform for this Sunday on electoral reform.

    I'm planning to do several AV related threads once the Labour leadership result is known and we have the full breakdowns known.
    On the subject of the Labour leadership.
    I've not received any emails from candidates since the 20th.
    You make that sound like a bad thing.
  • justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    from Flightpath01
    ..



    And of course the invasion of Iraq was not a war of aggression or conquest or territorial gain. It was a war to remove a dictator who had broken international treaties and replace him with a freely elected government. A war not to eliminate democracy but to create it.
    You are a grade 1 dummo bozo.

    The decision to go to war in 1939 was taken by Hitler with the active encouragement of Ribbentrop. There is no evidence that the other senior Nazis wanted a war. Goering made clear his opposition and worked to avoid it in the Summer of 1939. Even Goebbels was appalled by the idea. None of this is to deny that once the war got underway they went along with it - but had there been no Hitler there would have been no war at that time. Keitel was a military guy who simply did as he was told - in the same way that senior British commanders followed Blair's orders in 2003 despite having serious misgivings about the attack being lawful.
    As for the idea that the Iraq war was about removing Saddam , that contradicts what Blair said at the time when he expressly denied seeking regime change . It was about WDM and when they failed to appear he thought of something else.
    Justin, The Hosbach Conference in 1937 had already given the senior German leaders a plan to start aggressive wars in the East, if Britain and France could be kept out of the matter. Goering was present. It is perfectly true that Goering did not want war with Britain and France when the decision was taken to invade Poland (after the anexation of Czechslovakia) but Goering and the German Military and Political heirarchy knew that they intended to wage an aggressive war against Poland and hoped to keep the West out of it, a plot that might have succeeded. Chamberlain had had enough at Munich and finally saw the Nazis for what they were.

    I am not sure what this has with the Iraq war in 2003, though?
  • Justin, The Hosbach Conference in 1937 had already given the senior German leaders a plan to start aggressive wars in the East, if Britain and France could be kept out of the matter. Goering was present. It is perfectly true that Goering did not want war with Britain and France when the decision was taken to invade Poland (after the anexation of Czechslovakia) but Goering and the German Military and Political heirarchy knew that they intended to wage an aggressive war against Poland and hoped to keep the West out of it, a plot that might have succeeded. Chamberlain had had enough at Munich and finally saw the Nazis for what they were.

    I am not sure what this has with the Iraq war in 2003, though?
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Lot of beards going on with the ISIS karaoke pictures.

    Are these guys really just Islamic hipsters?

    I need to to have a word with the Friends about infiltrating IS. Get your spies to have seriously long beards, clearly its a status thing. Longer the beard, the more respect you get.
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