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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130
    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    @MalcolmG

    Many years ago my ancestors decided to join the British army. I can't imagine that was as decision without dilemmas, but nonetheless that's what they did. For several generations thereafter it was a theme. They were Scots obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be saying this.

    I'm sure that they would have loved Scotland. I'm equally sure that they would be dismayed if Scotland lost its link with the broader UK. They fought with their lives for the UK. Something inspired them to do so.

    Somehow along the way of Scottish Nationalism I think you need to re-embrace this history. Scotland detached from England is wrong - a different relationship - sure.

    Omnium , Unfortunately Westminster do not want a federal relationship, they will cling to power as long as they can and therefore the only outcome is the break up of the UK. Once upon a time the UK was reasonably fair to all , not nowadays.

    There are many other possible relationships beyond federal. The UK's still pretty fair to all. You know all the arguments anyway.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,481

    LG 1983.. what..from your lofty perch..do you consider to be .."Gainful employment".. in my book it is the ability and opportunity for someone to earn a living, no matter ow umble..do cleaners..of which there are many thousands across the country..not count.

    The gainfulness depends whether they're facilitating something or someone who makes money or contributes in some other vital way to the fabric of our society. I don't see keeping the warheads buffed up as doing that. Neither do I see being Sir General big bollocks in charge of the whole place as gainful employment.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Google translate still has a long way to go:

    "Angela Merkel is back. Where it was not for long. In the German domestic politics. At this return they force those who already feel strongly attracted throughout the year to Germany: the refugees. The summer press conference, the Chancellor gives every year, is a good indicator of what subject the country concerned and will employ long. 2014 went to Russia and Ukraine, in 2013 the activities of the US secret NSA, repeatedly were Greece and the stability of the euro in the focus of the remarks of the CDU chairman and the demands of journalists."

    http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article145854025/Merkels-Plaene-fuer-ein-temporaer-geaendertes-Asylrecht.html
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    edited 2015 31

    MG So port infrastructure is a complete waste of time eh.. even if Scotland manages to get a few warships..good thinking batman

    Richard, If spent on proper infrastructure and for some better use than nuclear submarines then it may be useful. Some surface ships may be useful and provide lots more employment. They are not investing wisely.
    Lots more real jobs could be created if the money was spent sensibly and they actually deigned to listen to Scottish people and governments ideas on the topic. It was an expensive way to get at the SNP.

    PS , we could do with a few roads and train line upgrades that would be far more useful to the people of Scotland and create multiple times the jobs.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130
    Cyclefree said:

    Omnium said:

    Plato said:

    Spot on

    Can anyone find any examples of Jeremy Corbyn doing something similar with ‘the other side’ of any of these peace processes or inter-faith meetings? For instance does anyone anywhere have any record of Jeremy Corbyn standing for a minute’s silence for some loyalist thugs killed while on ‘active service’? Or, more plausibly, are there any records of Jeremy Corbyn attending memorial events for the many members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary killed by while doing their duty as policemen? Or are there any records of him remembering members of the British armed forces and security services killed while performing their duties? It is only if we cannot find evidence of Jeremy attending such events that people might read reasons into why we only have records of him attending memorials for the IRA.
    Cyclefree said:
    To be fair to him though there is a reasonable role to put oneself in as a last olive branch. He clearly wasn't connected with power over many years, and as such thought that he might hold his nose and create a channel of communication.

    There's a danger though that all this holding of his nose might seem to suggest that he supports, endorses, or doesn't disapprove of, all sorts of nonsense. He's clearly engaged some impressionable people, and he should very swiftly act to make clear that he doesn't approve of the excesses of IS for example. So do that now Jeremy!

    He was not seriously acting as any sort of channel of communication. As others have noted, HMG had plenty of ways of speaking to the IRA if they wanted to. That's just Corbyn disingenuously puffing himself up on the back of genuine efforts by others to try and justify his squalid little adventures.

    But in any case it's too late. This is what he did, what he chose to do when no-one else was looking and it tells you all you need to know about his moral and political judgment, or lack of it.


    I agree. I don't think he was wise in meeting many of the people he's met in the past. Nonetheless I can entirely see that he may have been acting in what he perceived to be the nation's best interests. I disapprove of almost everything the man's ever said, but I really strongly disapprove of failing to be wise.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    What price Kanye West POTUS 2020?!?!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830

    CD13 said:

    I'm not sure that maths is all that happy with infinities. I read a little about Georg Cantor who invented sets and supposedly proved that you can have bigger infinities and lesser infinities. But I reckon I disproved that in a playground argument when I was nine - "The highest number in the world" "OK, then the highest number in the world plus one."

    However, I never really believed in electromagnetism and fields so I'm not that reliable.

    I've never *quite* got my head around this.

    You've got an infinite set of integers, from 0 to infinity.

    So you've got an infinite set of numbers between each number, from x to x + 1.

    And you've got another set of integers from 0 to - infinity.

    But if you take the set of numbers that are squares of other integers, there are an infinite amount of them, but its clearly a smaller set of numbers than the original set of numbers.

    Cantor built on work by Leibniz. He showed that the set of real numbers (includes 1.23 etc) cannot be matched by the set of natural numbers (1,2,3...) in a one-to-one manner, and so infinite sets come in sizes.

    There is a brilliant TV documentary by David Malone that helps explain the story called 'Dangerous Knowledge'. Personally I think it one of the best factional TV programmes ever made.

    http://bufvc.ac.uk/dvdfind/index.php/title/av69979

    To this day I am still trying to find the source of the music used in the program.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    JohnLoony said:

    I have just noticed that Wikipedia mysteriously says that the former Liverpool MP Bob Wareing died on 1st Msay 2015, although it was only edited as such on 25th August 2015.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Wareing

    He was previously reported to have died on 29th August 2014, but this was corrected the next day as an error. I presume that this is another false rumour, although if it is true then would be ironic that his death was reported when it didn't happen, but not reported when it did.

    I've deleted that from the Wikipedia article.

    Twigg, no doubt, confirmed he was still alive.
    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/stephen-twigg-apologises-after-mistakenly-7693284
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Plato said:

    Spot on

    Can anyone find any examples of Jeremy Corbyn doing something similar with ‘the other side’ of any of these peace processes or inter-faith meetings? For instance does anyone anywhere have any record of Jeremy Corbyn standing for a minute’s silence for some loyalist thugs killed while on ‘active service’? Or, more plausibly, are there any records of Jeremy Corbyn attending memorial events for the many members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary killed by while doing their duty as policemen? Or are there any records of him remembering members of the British armed forces and security services killed while performing their duties? It is only if we cannot find evidence of Jeremy attending such events that people might read reasons into why we only have records of him attending memorials for the IRA.
    Cyclefree said:
    Yes, these are very fair points.
    And this is what John McDonnell MP, a Corbyn supporter and possible candidate for Shadow Chancellor has said: "It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.”
    Fuck me. He really said that?


    Apparently so. Labour could be spoofing themselves of course. The whole election is like a Daily Mash article.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,640
    Is it true that the UK Govt. colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    @MalcolmG

    Many years ago my ancestors decided to join the British army. I can't imagine that was as decision without dilemmas, but nonetheless that's what they did. For several generations thereafter it was a theme. They were Scots obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be saying this.

    I'm sure that they would have loved Scotland. I'm equally sure that they would be dismayed if Scotland lost its link with the broader UK. They fought with their lives for the UK. Something inspired them to do so.

    Somehow along the way of Scottish Nationalism I think you need to re-embrace this history. Scotland detached from England is wrong - a different relationship - sure.

    Omnium , Unfortunately Westminster do not want a federal relationship, they will cling to power as long as they can and therefore the only outcome is the break up of the UK. Once upon a time the UK was reasonably fair to all , not nowadays.

    There are many other possible relationships beyond federal. The UK's still pretty fair to all. You know all the arguments anyway.
    Yes and not so sure on the fair part for Scotland or other parts of UK. It is all too London/South East centric and nothing else really matters other than at election time.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739

    JohnLoony said:

    I have just noticed that Wikipedia mysteriously says that the former Liverpool MP Bob Wareing died on 1st Msay 2015, although it was only edited as such on 25th August 2015.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Wareing

    He was previously reported to have died on 29th August 2014, but this was corrected the next day as an error. I presume that this is another false rumour, although if it is true then would be ironic that his death was reported when it didn't happen, but not reported when it did.

    I've deleted that from the Wikipedia article.

    Twigg, no doubt, confirmed he was still alive.
    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/stephen-twigg-apologises-after-mistakenly-7693284
    Premature deletion I fear

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/plans-liverpool-memorial-service-former-9931215
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Try emailing the prod company
    Production Company

    Name
    I-330 Films
    Contact
    David Malone
    Web
    http://www.i330.co.uk/ External site opens in new window

    CD13 said:

    I'm not sure that maths is all that happy with infinities. I read a little about Georg Cantor who invented sets and supposedly proved that you can have bigger infinities and lesser infinities. But I reckon I disproved that in a playground argument when I was nine - "The highest number in the world" "OK, then the highest number in the world plus one."

    However, I never really believed in electromagnetism and fields so I'm not that reliable.

    I've never *quite* got my head around this.

    You've got an infinite set of integers, from 0 to infinity.

    So you've got an infinite set of numbers between each number, from x to x + 1.

    And you've got another set of integers from 0 to - infinity.

    But if you take the set of numbers that are squares of other integers, there are an infinite amount of them, but its clearly a smaller set of numbers than the original set of numbers.

    Cantor built on work by Leibniz. He showed that the set of real numbers (includes 1.23 etc) cannot be matched by the set of natural numbers (1,2,3...) in a one-to-one manner, and so infinite sets come in sizes.

    There is a brilliant TV documentary by David Malone that helps explain the story called 'Dangerous Knowledge'. Personally I think it one of the best factional TV programmes ever made.

    http://bufvc.ac.uk/dvdfind/index.php/title/av69979

    To this day I am still trying to find the source of the music used in the program.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    lg 1983 That is a view I suppose.. but if you are a cleaner in Faslane.. which is an incredibly busy facility.. then you don't actually give a fuck who you are cleaning for.. just keep the paycheck coming in.. or would you rather they all went back onto benefits..
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    SeanT said:

    Plato said:

    Spot on

    Can anyone find any examples of Jeremy Corbyn doing something similar with ‘the other side’ of any of these peace processes or inter-faith meetings? For instance does anyone anywhere have any record of Jeremy Corbyn standing for a minute’s silence for some loyalist thugs killed while on ‘active service’? Or, more plausibly, are there any records of Jeremy Corbyn attending memorial events for the many members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary killed by while doing their duty as policemen? Or are there any records of him remembering members of the British armed forces and security services killed while performing their duties? It is only if we cannot find evidence of Jeremy attending such events that people might read reasons into why we only have records of him attending memorials for the IRA.
    Cyclefree said:
    Yes, these are very fair points.
    Of course they are fair points. But why do they even have to be made? It's clear that Corbyn is a preening and stupid tool AT BEST. At worst he is pretty much a traitor.



    Do we think the bad headlines on corbyn in the last few weeks have saved the labour party with a cooper /burnham win or it's to late with early votes ?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    MG Pier and Jetty construction serves all of the vessels as they all berth alongside..I thought you might have grasped that.. so any vessel can be berthed at those new facilities..
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    CD13 said:

    I'm not sure that maths is all that happy with infinities. I read a little about Georg Cantor who invented sets and supposedly proved that you can have bigger infinities and lesser infinities. But I reckon I disproved that in a playground argument when I was nine - "The highest number in the world" "OK, then the highest number in the world plus one."

    However, I never really believed in electromagnetism and fields so I'm not that reliable.

    I've never *quite* got my head around this.

    You've got an infinite set of integers, from 0 to infinity.

    So you've got an infinite set of numbers between each number, from x to x + 1.

    And you've got another set of integers from 0 to - infinity.

    But if you take the set of numbers that are squares of other integers, there are an infinite amount of them, but its clearly a smaller set of numbers than the original set of numbers.

    Cantor built on work by Leibniz. He showed that the set of real numbers (includes 1.23 etc) cannot be matched by the set of natural numbers (1,2,3...) in a one-to-one manner, and so infinite sets come in sizes.

    There is a brilliant TV documentary by David Malone that helps explain the story called 'Dangerous Knowledge'. Personally I think it one of the best factional TV programmes ever made.

    http://bufvc.ac.uk/dvdfind/index.php/title/av69979

    To this day I am still trying to find the source of the music used in the program.
    That actually rings a bell. May have watched that - definitely one with Turing and Boltzmann.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    edited 2015 31
    On topic.

    After the swift boating the Tories gave Miliband over trident during the election, this is the Tories playing nicely.

    This is an SA80 to the MLRS the Tories will use later on Corbyn and Labour.

    Even if Corbyn doesn't win or is replaced before 2020, the Tories will not shut up about the fact Labour are only a gnat's fart away from a hard left takeover
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,481
    SeanT said:

    Plato said:

    Spot on

    Can anyone find any examples of Jeremy Corbyn doing something similar with ‘the other side’ of any of these peace processes or inter-faith meetings? For instance does anyone anywhere have any record of Jeremy Corbyn standing for a minute’s silence for some loyalist thugs killed while on ‘active service’? Or, more plausibly, are there any records of Jeremy Corbyn attending memorial events for the many members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary killed by while doing their duty as policemen? Or are there any records of him remembering members of the British armed forces and security services killed while performing their duties? It is only if we cannot find evidence of Jeremy attending such events that people might read reasons into why we only have records of him attending memorials for the IRA.
    Cyclefree said:
    Yes, these are very fair points.
    Of course they are fair points. But why do they even have to be made? It's clear that Corbyn is a preening and stupid tool AT BEST. At worst he is pretty much a traitor.



    From my point of view, because I set very little store by the 'Jezbollah' side of things. Were we aligned on the Russia/Iran side of things we'd be calling them the 'Free Lebanon Army' and the papers would be filled with glowing reports on their bravery in the fight against ISIS and Al Nusra. It so happens we're aligned on the Saudi/US side of things, so we're not. I actually welcome Jezza's viewpoint on this as upsetting a very rancid applecart.

    However, what this article highlights well is that Corbyn has been just as partial and small minded in his own prejudices and tropes as those in the establishment he opposes. I find that personally to be a useful lesson.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    It cannot be better to have someone else making all your decisions. If you really think that is great , please start sending me all your money and I will work out what you want to spend it on.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Plato said:

    Spot on

    Can anyone find any examples of Jeremy Corbyn doing something similar with ‘the other side’ of any of these peace processes or inter-faith meetings? For instance does anyone anywhere have any record of Jeremy Corbyn standing for a minute’s silence for some loyalist thugs killed while on ‘active service’? Or, more plausibly, are there any records of Jeremy Corbyn attending memorial events for the many members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary killed by while doing their duty as policemen? Or are there any records of him remembering members of the British armed forces and security services killed while performing their duties? It is only if we cannot find evidence of Jeremy attending such events that people might read reasons into why we only have records of him attending memorials for the IRA.
    Cyclefree said:
    Yes, these are very fair points.
    And this is what John McDonnell MP, a Corbyn supporter and possible candidate for Shadow Chancellor has said: "It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.”
    Fuck me. He really said that?

    In the right wing fascist Daily Mail Grauniad:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/30/northernireland.devolution
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    It cannot be better to have someone else making all your decisions. If you really think that is great , please start sending me all your money and I will work out what you want to spend it on.
    'Someone else' isn't making your decisions - the 'UK Parliament' is - which you voted to remain part of under a year ago.

    Doesn't excuse the SNP from lazy analysis....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    lg 1983 That is a view I suppose.. but if you are a cleaner in Faslane.. which is an incredibly busy facility.. then you don't actually give a fuck who you are cleaning for.. just keep the paycheck coming in.. or would you rather they all went back onto benefits..

    You dullard, they could save the money and pay them forever and it would cost a huge amount less. The point is they are just wasting money for political dogma.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,548
    edited 2015 31

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108


    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.

    Yet something has clearly gone wrong where Scotland has failed to develop as well as it's immediate neighbours and failed to profit from its recent history of innovation and acumen.

    There's only two plausible explanations for this - either Scots are incapable of profiting from their success or natural bounties or the system of governance has prevented this. I find the argument quite compelling that it is is the system of governance.

    A nation can invent and build and exploit all it wants but if the ownership of capital and intellectual property is held in a foreign country, the benefits one would naturally expect to follow from this will flow to that foreign country.

    The great irony here, is what England has done to Scotland is now happening to the United Kingdom. When Tony Blair oversaw the largest sell off of the "family silver" during his reign and the ownership and head offices of so much of British industry and innovation went overseas, he ensured that the UK's ultimate fate was sealed.

    And it will not be a good one.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,481

    lg 1983 That is a view I suppose.. but if you are a cleaner in Faslane.. which is an incredibly busy facility.. then you don't actually give a fuck who you are cleaning for.. just keep the paycheck coming in.. or would you rather they all went back onto benefits..

    That's the point - if they're not employed to a purpose they are in effect on benefits.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Plato said:

    Spot on

    Can anyone find any examples of Jeremy Corbyn doing something similar with ‘the other side’ of any of these peace processes or inter-faith meetings? For instance does anyone anywhere have any record of Jeremy Corbyn standing for a minute’s silence for some loyalist thugs killed while on ‘active service’? Or, more plausibly, are there any records of Jeremy Corbyn attending memorial events for the many members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary killed by while doing their duty as policemen? Or are there any records of him remembering members of the British armed forces and security services killed while performing their duties? It is only if we cannot find evidence of Jeremy attending such events that people might read reasons into why we only have records of him attending memorials for the IRA.
    Cyclefree said:
    Yes, these are very fair points.
    And this is what John McDonnell MP, a Corbyn supporter and possible candidate for Shadow Chancellor has said: "It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.”
    Fuck me. He really said that?
    Apparently so. Labour could be spoofing themselves of course. The whole election is like a Daily Mash article.
    Yes. He said it. See here.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/30/northernireland.devolution

    Just extraordinary. Labour are going beyond political suicide into a form of political self vaporisation. There won't even be a corpse.

    It's not that bad. Labour could introduce the Bobby Sands diet as a way of dealing with the obesity epidemic. Think of the money saved.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    What's the margin of error on that tiny Scottish subsample?
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790

    JohnLoony said:

    I have just noticed that Wikipedia mysteriously says that the former Liverpool MP Bob Wareing died on 1st Msay 2015, although it was only edited as such on 25th August 2015.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Wareing

    He was previously reported to have died on 29th August 2014, but this was corrected the next day as an error. I presume that this is another false rumour, although if it is true then would be ironic that his death was reported when it didn't happen, but not reported when it did.

    I've deleted that from the Wikipedia article.

    Twigg, no doubt, confirmed he was still alive.
    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/stephen-twigg-apologises-after-mistakenly-7693284
    The link you have put as the source for your Wikipedia revision refers to the correction to last year's false report, and doesn't enlighten anybody about the report (or rumour) from this year. I have tweeted to Stephen Twigg MP to ask if he knows anything, but obviously it will take time for him to get back to me.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,640
    Is it true that the UK Govt. colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130
    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    @MalcolmG

    Many years ago my ancestors decided to join the British army. I can't imagine that was as decision without dilemmas, but nonetheless that's what they did. For several generations thereafter it was a theme. They were Scots obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be saying this.

    I'm sure that they would have loved Scotland. I'm equally sure that they would be dismayed if Scotland lost its link with the broader UK. They fought with their lives for the UK. Something inspired them to do so.

    Somehow along the way of Scottish Nationalism I think you need to re-embrace this history. Scotland detached from England is wrong - a different relationship - sure.

    Omnium , Unfortunately Westminster do not want a federal relationship, they will cling to power as long as they can and therefore the only outcome is the break up of the UK. Once upon a time the UK was reasonably fair to all , not nowadays.

    There are many other possible relationships beyond federal. The UK's still pretty fair to all. You know all the arguments anyway.
    Yes and not so sure on the fair part for Scotland or other parts of UK. It is all too London/South East centric and nothing else really matters other than at election time.
    Sure. But babies and bathwater etc.
    I imagine that you may have had ancestors that had pictures of Victoria hanging on their walls. My grandfather always stood for the Nation Anthem even when it was just playing in his own telly. The best of Scotland is intertwined with England, and vice versa. Independence - sure if you like. Independence at all costs - don't be daft.
    You're a reasonable man, and you know this to be true. Lord knows how it'll all finish up, but if Scotland and England aren't still friends then it'll be a loss to us all.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    Mind you, remember when Lord Ashcroft did some polling on Trident back in 2013, some Nats embarrassed themselves, it was soooo funny

    It is amusing to see the SNP questioning the integrity of the research on the grounds that I paid for it. Curiously they did not express the same view in their press release highlighting my survey of marginal seats in March, which showed a number of potential SNP gains from the Lib Dems, or when they welcomed my “super poll” at the end of last year which gave the SNP a 6-point lead over Labour.

    http://bit.ly/1IzAowm
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    I wonder why (not really) you missed out the preamble to the preceding question:

    Britain's nuclear weapon system, Trident, is currently based in Scotland. In the event Scotland becomes independent the Scottish government have said they would not have nuclear weapons in their country, and would require the rest of Britain to remove their nuclear weapons from Scottish territory.

    So having told Scots their government is opposed....ooh look! They don't like it!

    I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,481
    edited 2015 31
    Dair said:


    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.

    Yet something has clearly gone wrong where Scotland has failed to develop as well as it's immediate neighbours and failed to profit from its recent history of innovation and acumen.

    There's only two plausible explanations for this - either Scots are incapable of profiting from their success or natural bounties or the system of governance has prevented this. I find the argument quite compelling that it is is the system of governance.

    Correct - it's called socialism.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,368
    Mr Borough,

    "Cantor built on work by Leibniz. He showed that the set of real numbers (includes 1.23 etc) cannot be matched by the set of natural numbers (1,2,3...) in a one-to-one manner, and so infinite sets come in sizes."

    I remember that, so the set of even numbers and odd numbers must be less than the set of all numbers? Nope, yer infinite's yer infinite and you can't have higher. I'm not going back to being a nine-year old.

    I'm off now cos my poor old brain is hurting.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Omnium said:


    ...
    My grandfather always stood for the Nation Anthem even when it was just playing in his own telly.
    ...

    And it's the SNP who are "narrow nationalists".

    peh.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,548
    edited 2015 31

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    What's the margin of error on that tiny Scottish subsample?
    Pretty much the same as on the tiny 'even in Scotland!' Scottish subsample of the poll Carlottavance originally linked to.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Dair said:


    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.

    I find the argument quite compelling that it is is the system of governance.
    A failure of a decade and a half of devolution and 8 years of SNP rule?

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited 2015 31
    MG "They could save the money and pay them forever" page one of the SNP Economics..so lets put them all on the dole..no infrastructure for a future Scottish Navy//like I said before.. they are only fucking cleaners so sack em.. who gives a shit..Poor Scotland
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    @MalcolmG

    Many years ago my ancestors decided to join the British army. I can't imagine that was as decision without dilemmas, but nonetheless that's what they did. For several generations thereafter it was a theme. They were Scots obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be saying this.

    I'm sure that they would have loved Scotland. I'm equally sure that they would be dismayed if Scotland lost its link with the broader UK. They fought with their lives for the UK. Something inspired them to do so.

    Somehow along the way of Scottish Nationalism I think you need to re-embrace this history. Scotland detached from England is wrong - a different relationship - sure.

    Omnium , Unfortunately Westminster do not want a federal relationship, they will cling to power as long as they can and therefore the only outcome is the break up of the UK. Once upon a time the UK was reasonably fair to all , not nowadays.

    There are many other possible relationships beyond federal. The UK's still pretty fair to all. You know all the arguments anyway.
    Yes and not so sure on the fair part for Scotland or other parts of UK. It is all too London/South East centric and nothing else really matters other than at election time.
    Sure. But babies and bathwater etc.
    I imagine that you may have had ancestors that had pictures of Victoria hanging on their walls. My grandfather always stood for the Nation Anthem even when it was just playing in his own telly. The best of Scotland is intertwined with England, and vice versa. Independence - sure if you like. Independence at all costs - don't be daft.
    You're a reasonable man, and you know this to be true. Lord knows how it'll all finish up, but if Scotland and England aren't still friends then it'll be a loss to us all.
    Times change and no reason why we cannot be better friends when we are equal partners and deciding our own destinies , co-operating and working hand in hand instead of at present. Dire thought of anyone having pictures of royalty on their walls and doffing their caps to them, same with the national dirge.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    What's the margin of error on that tiny Scottish subsample?
    Pretty much the same as on the tiny 'even in Scotland!' Scottish subsample of the poll Carlottavance originally linked to.
    At least my subsample didn't have a leading question before it......
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:


    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.

    Yet something has clearly gone wrong where Scotland has failed to develop as well as it's immediate neighbours and failed to profit from its recent history of innovation and acumen.

    There's only two plausible explanations for this - either Scots are incapable of profiting from their success or natural bounties or the system of governance has prevented this. I find the argument quite compelling that it is is the system of governance.

    Correct - it's called socialism.
    For all it's failings I don't think The Great British Car Boot Sale can be blamed on Socialism. There's plenty of other things to blame on Socialism.

    The Sell Off was the result of short termism (no-one will really see the results of what Blair did for 20 years or more), corruption (no-one has ever addressed the corrupt establishment in the UK - and seldom even acknowledge it) and greed (which is, at it's heart a usually positive capitalism mechanism, in fact it is a core driver of markets).
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,817
    You'd have thought Osborne had something better to do. It's depressing when politicians primarily exercise power in order to win elections.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,358
    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Plato said:

    Spot on

    Can anyone find any examples of Jeremy Corbyn doing something similar with ‘the other side’ of any of these peace processes or inter-faith meetings? For instance does anyone anywhere have any record of Jeremy Corbyn standing for a minute’s silence for some loyalist thugs killed while on ‘active service’? Or, more plausibly, are there any records of Jeremy Corbyn attending memorial events for the many members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary killed by while doing their duty as policemen? Or are there any records of him remembering members of the British armed forces and security services killed while performing their duties? It is only if we cannot find evidence of Jeremy attending such events that people might read reasons into why we only have records of him attending memorials for the IRA.
    Cyclefree said:
    Yes, these are very fair points.
    And this is what John McDonnell MP, a Corbyn supporter and possible candidate for Shadow Chancellor has said: "It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.”
    Fuck me. He really said that?
    Apparently so. Labour could be spoofing themselves of course. The whole election is like a Daily Mash article.
    Yes. He said it. See here.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/30/northernireland.devolution

    Just extraordinary. Labour are going beyond political suicide into a form of political self vaporisation. There won't even be a corpse.
    It's not that bad. Labour could introduce the Bobby Sands diet as a way of dealing with the obesity epidemic. Think of the money saved.


    And his interior decorating regime for public offices would mean you REALLY wanted to visit.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Omnium said:

    My grandfather always stood for the Nation Anthem even when it was just playing in his own telly.

    "Even"? "just"? Doesn't everybody?

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    @MalcolmG

    Many years ago my ancestors decided to join the British army. I can't imagine that was as decision without dilemmas, but nonetheless that's what they did. For several generations thereafter it was a theme. They were Scots obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be saying this.

    I'm sure that they would have loved Scotland. I'm equally sure that they would be dismayed if Scotland lost its link with the broader UK. They fought with their lives for the UK. Something inspired them to do so.

    Somehow along the way of Scottish Nationalism I think you need to re-embrace this history. Scotland detached from England is wrong - a different relationship - sure.

    Omnium , Unfortunately Westminster do not want a federal relationship, they will cling to power as long as they can and therefore the only outcome is the break up of the UK. Once upon a time the UK was reasonably fair to all , not nowadays.

    There are many other possible relationships beyond federal. The UK's still pretty fair to all. You know all the arguments anyway.
    Yes and not so sure on the fair part for Scotland or other parts of UK. It is all too London/South East centric and nothing else really matters other than at election time.
    Sure. But babies and bathwater etc.
    I imagine that you may have had ancestors that had pictures of Victoria hanging on their walls. My grandfather always stood for the Nation Anthem even when it was just playing in his own telly. The best of Scotland is intertwined with England, and vice versa. Independence - sure if you like. Independence at all costs - don't be daft.
    You're a reasonable man, and you know this to be true. Lord knows how it'll all finish up, but if Scotland and England aren't still friends then it'll be a loss to us all.
    when we are equal partners and deciding our own destinies
    We won't be 'equal partners' in a currency union when the vote splits 92:8.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    MG "They could save the money and pay them forever" page one of the SNP Economics..so lets put them all on the dole..no infrastructure for a future Scottish Navy//like I said before.. they are only fucking cleaners so sack em.. who gives a shit..Poor Scotland

    Dear Dear , do you ever read people's posts
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    :smiley:
    Jonathan said:

    You'd have thought Osborne had something better to do. It's depressing when politicians primarily exercise power in order to win elections.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130
    Dair said:

    Omnium said:


    ...
    My grandfather always stood for the Nation Anthem even when it was just playing in his own telly.
    ...

    And it's the SNP who are "narrow nationalists".

    peh.
    I didn't say that the SNP were 'narrow nationalists' did I?

    Moreover you'll have to forgive me if I don't condemn my Grandfather for his beliefs. He was a good man as far as I recall, and I suspect if you'd met him you'd be hard pressed to think otherwise.

    (I'm assuming by the way that you didn't mean to be just plain rude)
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,358
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Plato said:

    Spot on

    Can anyone find any examples of Jeremy Corbyn doing something similar with ‘the other side’ of any of these peace processes or inter-faith meetings? For instance does anyone anywhere have any record of Jeremy Corbyn standing for a minute’s silence for some loyalist thugs killed while on ‘active service’? Or, more plausibly, are there any records of Jeremy Corbyn attending memorial events for the many members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary killed by while doing their duty as policemen? Or are there any records of him remembering members of the British armed forces and security services killed while performing their duties? It is only if we cannot find evidence of Jeremy attending such events that people might read reasons into why we only have records of him attending memorials for the IRA.
    Cyclefree said:
    Yes, these are very fair points.
    And this is what John McDonnell MP, a Corbyn supporter and possible candidate for Shadow Chancellor has said: "It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.”
    Fuck me. He really said that?
    Apparently so. Labour could be spoofing themselves of course. The whole election is like a Daily Mash article.
    Yes. He said it. See here.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/30/northernireland.devolution

    Just extraordinary. Labour are going beyond political suicide into a form of political self vaporisation. There won't even be a corpse.

    The Labour Party will become like those Everlasting Shadows of Hiroshima, preserved only as an outline on a wall....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    The Sun are hinting they've got a mahoosive story on Boris.

    Will publish in about 49 mins time.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited 2015 31
    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    CD13 said:

    Mr Borough,

    "Cantor built on work by Leibniz. He showed that the set of real numbers (includes 1.23 etc) cannot be matched by the set of natural numbers (1,2,3...) in a one-to-one manner, and so infinite sets come in sizes."

    I remember that, so the set of even numbers and odd numbers must be less than the set of all numbers? Nope, yer infinite's yer infinite and you can't have higher. I'm not going back to being a nine-year old.

    I'm off now cos my poor old brain is hurting.

    Mr. 13 is quite wrong when he says there is only one infinity. There are an infinite number of infinities each of different "sizes" as Cantor proved. Hence the introduction of the Aleph notation that someone referred to earlier.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,481
    Dair said:

    Dair said:


    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.

    Yet something has clearly gone wrong where Scotland has failed to develop as well as it's immediate neighbours and failed to profit from its recent history of innovation and acumen.

    There's only two plausible explanations for this - either Scots are incapable of profiting from their success or natural bounties or the system of governance has prevented this. I find the argument quite compelling that it is is the system of governance.

    Correct - it's called socialism.
    For all it's failings I don't think The Great British Car Boot Sale can be blamed on Socialism. There's plenty of other things to blame on Socialism.

    The Sell Off was the result of short termism (no-one will really see the results of what Blair did for 20 years or more), corruption (no-one has ever addressed the corrupt establishment in the UK - and seldom even acknowledge it) and greed (which is, at it's heart a usually positive capitalism mechanism, in fact it is a core driver of markets).
    I was referring to long term decline. In every area, not just economic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    The Sun are hinting they've got a mahoosive story on Boris.

    Will publish in about 49 mins time.

    I'm guessing its not this:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/boris-johnson-is-planning-a-cruise-ship-terminal-for-london--but-what-about-his-promise-for-cleaner-air-10479540.html
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,358

    The Sun are hinting they've got a mahoosive story on Boris.

    Will publish in about 49 mins time.

    Standing for Mayor again? That would be a hoot...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Confirmation of the comments made by Corbyn's mate John McDonnell:

    ""It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.""

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/30/northernireland.devolution
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    CD13 said:

    Mr Dancer,

    "Don't black holes of varying size suggest infinities can be larger or smaller?"

    You may be thinking of singularities or the original Big Bang which suggest that pressure and gravity increase to infinity as the volume hits zero. I think that's one reason that strings gained favour - they have a minute but definite volume. Black holes can be tiny or massive but are never infinite.

    But I've never claimed to be a physicist, my doctorate was in toxicology - an arcane but sensible subject by comparison.

    I think worrying about infinity is for people who are fed up about worrying about the quantum world.
    The concept of a singularity is bad enough.
    But can any'thing' be endless? I'd say no. But then again this begs the question of 'things', not to mention geometry.

  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    Brent Crude seems to have bottomed a week ago: today it has jumped 10% to over $50
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited 2015 31
    "Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi said: "Osama bin Laden was a terrorist who any sensible human being in the world would want either killed or arrested. For him to call this a tragedy and appear to compare it to what happened on 9/11 is frightening." " - BBC News

    Whilst not defending Corbyn, his view seems to be more or less the same as Nadhim Zahawi, whoever he is. At least, that is what the sentence below says.

    "Jeremy Corbyn has been criticised for saying it was a "tragedy" that Osama Bin Laden was killed rather than being put on trial." - BBC News

    Who was against putting OBL on trial ? Dirty linen ?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130
    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    @MalcolmG
    Many years ago my ancestors decided to join the British army. I can't imagine that was as decision without dilemmas, but nonetheless that's what they did. For several generations thereafter it was a theme. They were Scots obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be saying this.

    I'm sure that they would have loved Scotland. I'm equally sure that they would be dismayed if Scotland lost its link with the broader UK. They fought with their lives for the UK. Something inspired them to do so.

    Somehow along the way of Scottish Nationalism I think you need to re-embrace this history. Scotland detached from England is wrong - a different relationship - sure.

    Omnium , Unfortunately Westminster do not want a federal relationship, they will cling to power as long as they can and therefore the only outcome is the break up of the UK. Once upon a time the UK was reasonably fair to all , not nowadays.
    There are many other possible relationships beyond federal. The UK's still pretty fair to all. You know all the arguments anyway.
    Yes and not so sure on the fair part for Scotland or other parts of UK. It is all too London/South East centric and nothing else really matters other than at election time.
    Sure. But babies and bathwater etc.
    I imagine that you may have had ancestors that had pictures of Victoria hanging on their walls. My grandfather always stood for the Nation Anthem even when it was just playing in his own telly. The best of Scotland is intertwined with England, and vice versa. Independence - sure if you like. Independence at all costs - don't be daft.
    You're a reasonable man, and you know this to be true. Lord knows how it'll all finish up, but if Scotland and England aren't still friends then it'll be a loss to us all.
    Times change and no reason why we cannot be better friends when we are equal partners and deciding our own destinies , co-operating and working hand in hand instead of at present. Dire thought of anyone having pictures of royalty on their walls and doffing their caps to them, same with the national dirge.
    I'd bet quite heavily that one or more of your ancestors had some royal portraits hanging on their walls.

    I'm no royalist though - I really want to know why it is that my family has been fighting to defend their arses for all these years, and yet if I knock on the door of Buck House I'll not get a cup of tea. 150 years!,, no tea! Surely some mistake!

    I would fight, heart and soul for this country (the generic UK rather than the political thing, although I'm a supporter of the Union anyway). I wouldn't have the slightest interest in doing so for any member of the Royals.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739
    edited 2015 31
    I posted that article earlier on, look at the date, it was last week.

    Your Twigg article is from 2014.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
    Struck a nerve, sensitive about being in a tax haven. We mortals pay dearly to keep you tax free.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,640
    AndyJS said:

    Confirmation of the comments made by Corbyn's mate John McDonnell:

    ""It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.""

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/30/northernireland.devolution

    Is it true that the UK Govt. colluded with Loyalist paramilitaries?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    Brent Crude seems to have bottomed a week ago: today it has jumped 10% to over $50

    You can taste the silence from the Tory frothers on here.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited 2015 31

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    The party of incompetence will probably increase its majority next year - a feat that is extremely difficult to achieve given their electoral system.

    Scotland always was a separate country and it was forced to join the Union in 1707. They should be free.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
    Struck a nerve, sensitive about being in a tax haven. We mortals pay dearly to keep you tax free.
    No nerve, but delighted to see further ignorance on display.

    What exactly do you 'pay'?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,739

    malcolmg said:

    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
    Struck a nerve, sensitive about being in a tax haven. We mortals pay dearly to keep you tax free.
    No nerve, but delighted to see further ignorance on display.

    What exactly do you 'pay'?
    Judging by his posts, Malcom's contributions to the Exchequer are quite substantial, via alcohol duties.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130

    CD13 said:

    Mr Dancer,

    "Don't black holes of varying size suggest infinities can be larger or smaller?"

    You may be thinking of singularities or the original Big Bang which suggest that pressure and gravity increase to infinity as the volume hits zero. I think that's one reason that strings gained favour - they have a minute but definite volume. Black holes can be tiny or massive but are never infinite.

    But I've never claimed to be a physicist, my doctorate was in toxicology - an arcane but sensible subject by comparison.

    I think worrying about infinity is for people who are fed up about worrying about the quantum world.
    The concept of a singularity is bad enough.
    But can any'thing' be endless? I'd say no. But then again this begs the question of 'things', not to mention geometry.

    There's clearly an endless stream of numbers.

    @flightpath - no - black holes all have the same infinities going on. Georg Cantor produced a nice proof that there are degrees of infinity though.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    surbiton said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Scotland always was a separate country and it was forced to join the Union in 1707.
    They volunteered!

    And they voted to stay in eleven and a half months ago!

    Truly, are there no depths to your ignorance?

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    Brent Crude seems to have bottomed a week ago: today it has jumped 10% to over $50

    You can taste the silence from the Tory frothers on here.
    Only another 120% to go!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    I wonder why (not really) you missed out the preamble to the preceding question:

    Britain's nuclear weapon system, Trident, is currently based in Scotland. In the event Scotland becomes independent the Scottish government have said they would not have nuclear weapons in their country, and would require the rest of Britain to remove their nuclear weapons from Scottish territory.

    So having told Scots their government is opposed....ooh look! They don't like it!

    I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
    The UK as a whole wants a nuclear weapons system, with 31% wanting a less powerful one than Trident, 25% replacing Trident and 25% giving up Trident completely

    In terms of submarines while 43% of Scots do not want submarine based nuclear weapons, 29% want a nuclear submarine always on patrol and 17% want a cheaper system but where nuclear submarines are not always on patrol. So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ksx1tw2rj8/TimesResults_150126_Trident_Website.pdf
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    malcolmg said:

    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
    Struck a nerve, sensitive about being in a tax haven. We mortals pay dearly to keep you tax free.
    No nerve, but delighted to see further ignorance on display.

    What exactly do you 'pay'?
    Thousands a month in fact, I am not a tax avoider , I pay my way.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I can't believe the same newspaper would make the same mistake again.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited 2015 31
    .
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    HYUFD said:

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    I wonder why (not really) you missed out the preamble to the preceding question:

    Britain's nuclear weapon system, Trident, is currently based in Scotland. In the event Scotland becomes independent the Scottish government have said they would not have nuclear weapons in their country, and would require the rest of Britain to remove their nuclear weapons from Scottish territory.

    So having told Scots their government is opposed....ooh look! They don't like it!

    I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
    So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    Yep - not that you'd know it from the 'you're not in touch' Nats on here.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    malcolmg said:

    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
    Struck a nerve, sensitive about being in a tax haven. We mortals pay dearly to keep you tax free.
    No nerve, but delighted to see further ignorance on display.

    What exactly do you 'pay'?
    Judging by his posts, Malcom's contributions to the Exchequer are quite substantial, via alcohol duties.
    Given your history of making up tall tales , hmmmm, no shame comes to mind.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    surbiton said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MG Absolutely.. go and ask them yourself..job security for a lot more years.. until the Scots decide on Independence and then bingo.. unemployed..It is all that the SNP is offering them.

    Stick to something you know about, here you are just talking drivel.
    And what exactly do you know anything about?

    Turnips?
    Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

    Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

    Harpier cries "'Tis time, 'tis time."

    Quoting an English Playwright?

    When chapmen billies leave the street,
    And drouthy neibors, neibors meet,
    As market days are wearing late,
    An' folk begin to tak the gate;
    While we sit bousing at the nappy,
    And getting fou and unco happy,
    We think na on the lang Scots miles,
    The mosses, waters, slaps, and styles,
    That lie between us and our hame,
    Where sits our sulky sullen dame.
    Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
    Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.


    Scot manque....
    Unlike you I am not bigoted, I like the English.

    PS: Serious question , is there anything Scottish you do not hate.
    I love most things Scottish (I'm not a 'hater' - I leave that to the Nats)

    What I dislike is the 'blame others' culture fostered by SLAB and the SNP.

    'If only Scotland wasn't ruled by a (Tory/Westminster - delete as appropriate) government, things would be so much better!

    Its easy thinking of the first order and Adam Smith would be mortified by the shallow callow fatuity of the analysis.
    We know. You love Scotland so much that you live in tax exile !
    We know. You hate the UK so much you won't engage in argument.....

    So much for 'civic nationalism!'
    Struck a nerve, sensitive about being in a tax haven. We mortals pay dearly to keep you tax free.
    No nerve, but delighted to see further ignorance on display.

    What exactly do you 'pay'?
    Thousands a month in fact, I am not a tax avoider , I pay my way.
    Good for you - but what are you paying for Guernsey - your claim?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    edited 2015 31

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    surbiton said:

    "Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi said: "Osama bin Laden was a terrorist who any sensible human being in the world would want either killed or arrested. For him to call this a tragedy and appear to compare it to what happened on 9/11 is frightening." " - BBC News

    Whilst not defending Corbyn, his view seems to be more or less the same as Nadhim Zahawi, whoever he is. At least, that is what the sentence below says.

    "Jeremy Corbyn has been criticised for saying it was a "tragedy" that Osama Bin Laden was killed rather than being put on trial." - BBC News

    Who was against putting OBL on trial ? Dirty linen ?

    What dirty linen was Obama unwilling to wash then?
    The bozos that nutter comrade Corbyn has unleashed are making life hilarious.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    AndyJS said:
    This is more and more curious and confusing. It quotes a close family friend as not knowing about the death until months later. Are we sure the Liverpool Echo has not itself been misinformed? How would his own family & friends not know for 4 months? I'm confused. I am going to go and watch TV properly instead of interneting, and I'll come back later.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    I wonder why (not really) you missed out the preamble to the preceding question:

    Britain's nuclear weapon system, Trident, is currently based in Scotland. In the event Scotland becomes independent the Scottish government have said they would not have nuclear weapons in their country, and would require the rest of Britain to remove their nuclear weapons from Scottish territory.

    So having told Scots their government is opposed....ooh look! They don't like it!

    I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
    The UK as a whole wants a nuclear weapons system, with 31% wanting a less powerful one than Trident, 25% replacing Trident and 25% giving up Trident completely

    In terms of submarines while 43% of Scots do not want submarine based nuclear weapons, 29% want a nuclear submarine always on patrol and 17% want a cheaper system but where nuclear submarines are not always on patrol. So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ksx1tw2rj8/TimesResults_150126_Trident_Website.pdf
    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,130

    The Sun are hinting they've got a mahoosive story on Boris.

    Will publish in about 49 mins time.

    I'm guessing its not this:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/boris-johnson-is-planning-a-cruise-ship-terminal-for-london--but-what-about-his-promise-for-cleaner-air-10479540.html
    Why would you link that? Lord knows why the Independent see fit to publish it anyway. It says for example -
    "Air pollution can be deadly to those with heart and lung disease, asthma and all respiratory conditions. But death is rarely instantaneous."
    There really is no need to read further.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    They'll rue the day:

    The SNP’s incompetence as a party of government

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32c37d04-4caf-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3kPMcxUAp

    Ha Ha Ha , tax exile tries to pretend the FT could actually print anything sensible about SNP. As likely as you doing the right thing rather than hiding in a tax haven. How can you embarrass yourself by pontificating about the UK and Scotland in particular when you avoid paying tax.
    Still haven't explained what you are 'paying for', have you?

    So unlike the Nats to play 'the man, not the ball'.....
    I pay so that people less fortunate than me have some money, I don't avoid paying tax. At least gives me the right to have an opinion on the UK and how it is run, unlike those who do not contribute.
    Still haven't answered the question - what are you paying for Guernsey?

    Hint - its 'nothing'.......

    Wrong again......

    Oh, and since you are an expert in my tax affairs, the basic rate of tax in Guernsey is the same as the UK and the personal allowance lower.....

    But what do you know......nothing.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,047
    surbiton said:

    "Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi said: "Osama bin Laden was a terrorist who any sensible human being in the world would want either killed or arrested. For him to call this a tragedy and appear to compare it to what happened on 9/11 is frightening." " - BBC News

    Whilst not defending Corbyn, his view seems to be more or less the same as Nadhim Zahawi, whoever he is. At least, that is what the sentence below says.

    "Jeremy Corbyn has been criticised for saying it was a "tragedy" that Osama Bin Laden was killed rather than being put on trial." - BBC News

    Who was against putting OBL on trial ? Dirty linen ?

    Troublemakers will make more of his comments, but it is the equating with other events and use of the descriptor of 'tragic' that is the issue , being totally unnecessary given the point he apparently wanted to make (and given he and his supporters, like all political groups, condemn loose language from the other side, not something he can complain about) and even then would not permit people making more of it than is fair without all the rest of his comments on issues seeming to back them up as a possibility.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    edited 2015 31

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland

    Britain should replace Trident with an equally powerful nuclear
    missile system
    18%

    Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be
    less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident
    24%

    Britain should give up nuclear weapons completely
    48%

    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    I wonder why (not really) you missed out the preamble to the preceding question:

    Britain's nuclear weapon system, Trident, is currently based in Scotland. In the event Scotland becomes independent the Scottish government have said they would not have nuclear weapons in their country, and would require the rest of Britain to remove their nuclear weapons from Scottish territory.

    So having told Scots their government is opposed....ooh look! They don't like it!

    I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
    So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    Yep - not that you'd know it from the 'you're not in touch' Nats on here.....
    Exactly, a plurality may oppose them but they are outnumbered by those who want them on present terms or with fewer of them
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    SNP,s Scotland..Land of the Brave,The Free and the unemployed if you are a cleaner in Faslane..but who gives a shit.. you are only cleaners..
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,236
    surbiton said:

    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !

    If you want a continuous at-sea deterrent, then there is obviously a minimum number of boats required. One at sea, one under repair, and one training; it's easy to extend that to a fourth boat to guarantee continuity at sea (e.g. two under repair, or one going on patrol as another is coming off, etc, etc).

    You may be able to get away with three; it would be impossible to get continuous deterrent with just two boats.

    As an example, the French have four Triomphant-class subs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see that spending 500 million on a worthless figleaf is terribly likely to undermine the opposition.

    It is if the popular view is that renewing Trident is not a 'worthless fig leaf....'

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/
    A happy state of affairs for supporters of our current arrangements that can only be damaged by opening the issue up to debate and scrutiny in my opinion.

    If you'd read the poll, you'd see that it did explore options - such as 'cheaper Trident' - and support for a deterrent remained greater than getting rid of it - even in Scotland!
    I wonder why (not really) you went all the way back to 2013 when there's a much more recent poll?

    'YouGov / The Times Survey Results
    Sample Size: 1656 GB Adults
    Fieldwork: 25th - 26th January 2015

    What do you think Britain should do when Trident reaches
    the end of its useful life?

    Region: Scotland


    Don’t know
    10%'

    http://tinyurl.com/qg5lrwz
    I wonder why (not really) you missed out the preamble to the preceding question:

    Britain's nuclear weapon system, Trident, is currently based in Scotland. In the event Scotland becomes independent the Scottish government have said they would no.

    So having told Scots their government is opposed....ooh look! They don't like it!

    I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked!
    The UK as a whole wants a nuclear weapons system, with 31% wanting a less powerful one than Trident, 25% replacing Trident and 25% giving up Trident completely

    In terms of submarines while 43% of Scots do not want submarine based nuclear weapons, 29% want a nuclear submarine always on patrol and 17% want a cheaper system but where nuclear submarines are not always on patrol. So a majority of Scots want nuclear submarines in some form
    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ksx1tw2rj8/TimesResults_150126_Trident_Website.pdf
    What's wrong with what we have ? It can still finish off humanity.

    Michael Portillo, ex-Defence Secretary, put it in This Week that the defence establishment wanted 4 x Trident's just as a bargaining tool !
    Maybe, but Corbyn does not want any deterrent at all
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    You buy a paper one morning. Its headline reads "Tragedy strikes as man killed". You would presume that we're supposed to feel sorry for him.

    If, on page 3, it says "he should instead have been arrested" then you'd rightly feel that the headline was wrong.

    Only rose tinted glasses can read into Corbyn's comments the context - if we assume he did mean what he know says - that was badly omitted from the headline.
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