FF has always been a sensible kind of chap and you're never, ever agree with everything someone else says unless you're talking to yourself. This I agree with.
Frank Field's judgement is very much put into question by the fact he is one of the fools who nominated Corbyn but is now horrified that he might win. That is not the action of a "sensible kind of chap".
If 2/3 of Labour MPs nominate Johnson or another candidate against Corbyn he is dead rules or not. Johnson is a former union leader anyway and of course there is no longer a union members block vote in the electoral college
Actually even then Corbyn can cling on. In order to challenge Corbyn 20% of MPs need to sign an open letter nominating a specific alternative. That is a very high bar (compare to 15% of Tory's anonymously writing to the 1922 committee). Furthermore I believe even if challenged Corbyn as incumbent is automatically on the ballot paper to continue, if he doesn't want to go he doesn't need to be re-nominated. So he could cling on even in your scenario and win a public vote.
What's happened to all those letters allegedly sent into the '22 committee during the last parliament? Do they lapse with a new parliament, or do they remain on the record? Also, can an MP who has sent one withdraw it (recant ?) later?
Electing Corbyn isn't quite as ludicrous as it seems because there's plenty of time for Labour to replace him as leader between now and 2020. Without the fixed-term parliament act it really would be stupid to choose him. A less patrician Tory leader might attempt to repeal the fixed-term act but I get the impression Cameron would somehow regard it as foul play to do so.
Firstly, replacing Corbyn might be difficult. It's not as if Labour have a great track record in getting rid of hopeless leaders, as the last parliament shows. The last leader to be deposed (in a way) was Blair. The party's current woes started with Brown's machinations to get rid of Blair and the political careers that were left buried at the roadside.
Blair, as much as he is hated now, was Labour's last electable leader. And they got rid of him, but not the much worse Gordon or Ed. It almost seems that hte more hopeless you are as leader, the more secure you are.
Secondly, there is the question of what damage Corbyn does to the party in the meantime, and whether the internal structures of the party in (say) 2017 or 2018 will favour a more electable candidate for leader.
The Tories got rid of Thatcher but not Major or Hague but by IDS had had enough
Arguably replacing Major or Hague wouldn't have improved their prospects at all, so they weren't worth replacing.
This is a silly market. I reckon there's a fair chance that we've seen the last Labour majority ever.
It may be a while until we see another Conservative overall majority. Betfair (in a very thin market) has it as a 55% chance in 2020. There is the EU, the economy, Cameron's departure, events ...
It is quite possible that we may have 10-15 years of minority governments. And then a new generation will be in place and who knows? Corbyn will be in his eighties in the newly created Senate.
There may a Labour majority government (in 2035?) before there is Conservative majority (in 2045?). I'll be over 100 so I may never see the day.
The voters won't let Labour in control of the economy - either on its own or as part of a coalition - until it convinces that it has a plan that does not come with a serious risk of blowing the nation's finances yet again. Corbyn is taking them so far away from a convincing economic narrative, the only issue is how far backwards Labour travels under his leadership...
You think, not that it may actually happen. You purport your ideas onto reality. Really, you are just asking to be bitten on the backside.
Electing Corbyn isn't quite as ludicrous as it seems because there's plenty of time for Labour to replace him as leader between now and 2020. Without the fixed-term parliament act it really would be stupid to choose him. A less patrician Tory leader might attempt to repeal the fixed-term act but I get the impression Cameron would somehow regard it as foul play to do so.
Firstly, replacing Corbyn might be difficult. It's not as if Labour have a great track record in getting rid of hopeless leaders, as the last parliament shows. The last leader to be deposed (in a way) was Blair. The party's current woes started with Brown's machinations to get rid of Blair and the political careers that were left buried at the roadside.
Blair, as much as he is hated now, was Labour's last electable leader. And they got rid of him, but not the much worse Gordon or Ed. It almost seems that hte more hopeless you are as leader, the more secure you are.
Secondly, there is the question of what damage Corbyn does to the party in the meantime, and whether the internal structures of the party in (say) 2017 or 2018 will favour a more electable candidate for leader.
The Tories got rid of Thatcher but not Major or Hague but by IDS had had enough
Thatcher - accepted. It's interesting to consider how she would have fared in a rematch against Kinnock in 1992, has she stayed on.
Major won an election, but after about 1993 it's hard to see any figure in the party who could have turned the party around to avoid the smashing they got in 1997. The party was self-destructing just as Blair was making Labour electable.
Hague was facing an invincible Blair. The party's problems went much deeper than him, and people knew it.
Thatcher would probably have lost to Kinnock in 1992 and it was only because Major seemed like a change of government the Tories held on by 1997 the mood for change was overwhelming
Mr. Moses, like Mr. Borough, I do wonder if Labour will really elect Corbyn.
The number of purged votes compared to the ultimate winner's margin of victory will be an interesting statistic.
Also the possibility of the spoilt ballots. The paper requires 1,2,3 type entries but I understand from reports and Corby was sending reminders because some are putting "x" for the single candidate and no 2nd prefs.
The fall out is just going to be quite spectacular either way win or lose I suspect.
If you put an X in an AV vote is it a spoilt ballot or does it not just count as a 1 for the one marked X but eliminated vote if your candidate is eliminated? I think it works that way in Australia.
I think it will work how Labour wants it to work i.e. democratically. That's right Hattie isn't it?
There's acres of this stuff on the Stop the War website. Enough material for 10 years of tortuous PMQ's and vicious tabloid hatchet jobs.
What should really scare Labour is that whereas Cameron's attacks on Ed about him being in the pockets of the unions always seemed a bit irrelevant (to me, at least), all the stuff about Corbyn's past is for real. There's no innuendo, there's no propaganda.
I think Corbyn's had quite an easy ride so far. Every time I see a press review about him there's a sense of "well I don't necessarily agree with him but it's refreshing to see a politician engaging with the youngsters. etc.". I suspect his supporters don't realise what is about to hit him if he is elected leader.
Yep. To continue Blair's over-the-cliff metaphor, The Corbyntifada is like a cartoon character running off a precipice. I suspect that for a few months after he is elected, his legs will keep pumping and all will seem well. Or at least not too bad. View OK, nice fresh air, ooh look at that eagle.
Then reality will kick in, and he will plunge, taking Labour with him.
Mr. JEO, disagree. I still think In will win easily.
On-topic: I'm also averse to locking up cash for so long, though I only bet bottle tops compared to the deep pockets of Mr. Smithson and others here.
May has come out arguing for limiting jobless EU citizens from coming here. If they get that, and also limit criminals, I think In could do it.
Do British jobless in Spain get arrested?
Who cares? That's another country and it's up to them how they run it.
+1 We need a bit more of this approach and a lot less looking over our shoulders at others.
Though the British in Spain are Britons and thus citizens/voters as are their family too.
I saw one joke post the other day on Facebook that the In Campaign will be "vote to stay In or the EU will deport your elderly in-laws back to the UK".
If 2/3 of Labour MPs nominate Johnson or another candidate against Corbyn he is dead rules or not. Johnson is a former union leader anyway and of course there is no longer a union members block vote in the electoral college
Actually even then Corbyn can cling on. In order to challenge Corbyn 20% of MPs need to sign an open letter nominating a specific alternative. That is a very high bar (compare to 15% of Tory's anonymously writing to the 1922 committee). Furthermore I believe even if challenged Corbyn as incumbent is automatically on the ballot paper to continue, if he doesn't want to go he doesn't need to be re-nominated. So he could cling on even in your scenario and win a public vote.
20% is not that high a bar considering around 3/4 of MPs did not nominate Corbyn to start with. If 2/3 of his MPs oppose him he cannot lead the parliamentary party and even if it went to a members vote if Corbyn was trailing badly in the polls I believe Johnson would beat him
If he can get himself into 1st place in the regional list for Glasgow, Professor Adam Tomkins, could scrape a seat - he's likely to be going head to head with Tommy Sheridan for a seat. A televised debate between the pair of them would be very entertaining !!
The most extraordinary thing about those odds is that Tony Blair and Jeremy Corbyn are both members of the Labour Party.
Tony only stood down in June 2007. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around that.
Iraq casts a very long shadow. What I've never got is how TB makes so much money selling his Middle East expertise. I'm sure someone will tell me.
Simple. He's a terrific consultant. 1) A situation arises 2) Tony is bought in to explain how he personally would handle the situation 3) Tony's clients do the exact opposite 4) Situation sorted
Even if corbyn is elected leader,got a feeling labour will get rid before the next GE.
Probably. But the general chaos and "unfittness for government" should make Labour unelectable for 2020 like the Tories were in 2005 even though they got rid of IDS.
Another reason Corbyn is a disaster (number 85 in a list of 639), he is co-chair of Stop the War. Co-chair. This isn't some meeting where he accidentally praised a terrorist warlord, or some tea party where he mistakenly offered biscuits to the IRA's chief bomb maker, this is something he has CHOSEN to lead.
And Stop the War have endless suspicious and abhorrent opinions. e.g. they are against any criticism of the extremist, radical, segregating Muslim schools in the Trojan Horse case, because such criticism is deemed "Islamophobic".
There's acres of this stuff on the Stop the War website. Enough material for 10 years of tortuous PMQ's and vicious tabloid hatchet jobs.
Labour are committing an act of sectionable insanity.
SeanT: I mentioned this some time ago. Stop the War in August last year said that they were against bombing IS to help the Yazidis because the U.S. was doing the bombing. I agree with you that there is loads of this stuff but those who are voting for him either don't know or do know and don't care or do know and seek disingenuously to explain away or diminish this or do know and are voting for him precisely because he is anti- Western.
Corbyn claims to be on the side of the oppressed but he is only on the side of those oppressed groups who are politically useful to him ie those who he can claim are in some way oppressed by the West. Hence his support for Palestinians and his indifference to the Yazidis. If people are oppressed by someone other than the West Corbyn and his backers care nothing for them. Indeed, they are quite content to allow - as with IS and the Yazidis or the Assyrian Christians - the oppression to continue as there is no political benefit to them. It is a morally repulsive and wholly unprincipled position.
If 2/3 of Labour MPs nominate Johnson or another candidate against Corbyn he is dead rules or not. Johnson is a former union leader anyway and of course there is no longer a union members block vote in the electoral college
Actually even then Corbyn can cling on. In order to challenge Corbyn 20% of MPs need to sign an open letter nominating a specific alternative. That is a very high bar (compare to 15% of Tory's anonymously writing to the 1922 committee). Furthermore I believe even if challenged Corbyn as incumbent is automatically on the ballot paper to continue, if he doesn't want to go he doesn't need to be re-nominated. So he could cling on even in your scenario and win a public vote.
20% is not that high a bar considering around 3/4 of MPs did not nominate Corbyn to start with. If 2/3 of his MPs oppose him he cannot lead the parliamentary party and even if it went to a members vote if Corbyn was trailing badly in the polls I believe Johnson would beat him
They would have also to change the electorate, however, I suspect.
Any attempt to depose Corbyn would just lead to more three-quidders signing up to defend their man...
One way our lavish aid budget could find a useful outlet:
"Post-conflict situations are politically fragile, and rapid economic recovery helps to stabilise them. The smart way to meet the duty to rescue is to incubate that economic recovery now, before the conflict ends.
Europe can do that by fostering a Syria–in-exile economy located in Jordan and other neighbouring countries. Working in this economy would restore some dignity to the daily lives of refugees and offer them credible hope of a return to normality. Providing a skilled minority of Syrians with dream lives in Europe is not the answer: it would be detrimental to recovery because once settled in Europe, with their children in schooling, such people would be unlikely to go back to a post-conflict society. In consequence, it would gut Syria of the very people it will most need. It is an intellectually lazy feel-good policy for the bien‑pensant."
Paul Collier: www.spectator.co.uk/features/9602132/if-you-really-want-to-help-refugees-look-beyond-the-mediterranean/
This seems far too sensible to ever even be seriously considered
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
FF has always been a sensible kind of chap and you're never, ever agree with everything someone else says unless you're talking to yourself. This I agree with.
Frank Field's judgement is very much put into question by the fact he is one of the fools who nominated Corbyn but is now horrified that he might win. That is not the action of a "sensible kind of chap".
He did the mea culpa bit, that hard's for anyone but extremely difficult for politicians as we've all just witnessed. We all make mistakes don't we and FF's is responsible for much personal enjoyment so I'm not going to hold it against him.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
Electing Corbyn isn't quite as ludicrous as it seems because there's plenty of time for Labour to replace him as leader between now and 2020. Without the fixed-term parliament act it really would be stupid to choose him. A less patrician Tory leader might attempt to repeal the fixed-term act but I get the impression Cameron would somehow regard it as foul play to do so.
Firstly, replacing Corbyn might be difficult. It's not as if Labour have a great track record in getting rid of hopeless leaders, as the last parliament shows. The last leader to be deposed (in a way) was Blair. The party's current woes started with Brown's machinations to get rid of Blair and the political careers that were left buried at the roadside.
Blair, as much as he is hated now, was Labour's last electable leader. And they got rid of him, but not the much worse Gordon or Ed. It almost seems that hte more hopeless you are as leader, the more secure you are.
Secondly, there is the question of what damage Corbyn does to the party in the meantime, and whether the internal structures of the party in (say) 2017 or 2018 will favour a more electable candidate for leader.
Corbyn will go of his own accord before the next election when he has finished his mission.
His mission being to turn the Labour party into an unelectable Sinn Fein hugging. quasi-IslamoFascist Trotskyite sect...
If 2/3 of Labour MPs nominate Johnson or another candidate against Corbyn he is dead rules or not. Johnson is a former union leader anyway and of course there is no longer a union members block vote in the electoral college
Actually even then Corbyn can cling on. In order to challenge Corbyn 20% of MPs need to sign an open letter nominating a specific alternative. That is a very high bar (compare to 15% of Tory's anonymously writing to the 1922 committee). Furthermore I believe even if challenged Corbyn as incumbent is automatically on the ballot paper to continue, if he doesn't want to go he doesn't need to be re-nominated. So he could cling on even in your scenario and win a public vote.
20% is not that high a bar considering around 3/4 of MPs did not nominate Corbyn to start with. If 2/3 of his MPs oppose him he cannot lead the parliamentary party and even if it went to a members vote if Corbyn was trailing badly in the polls I believe Johnson would beat him
They would have also to change the electorate, however, I suspect.
Any attempt to depose Corbyn would just lead to more three-quidders signing up to defend their man...
The rules could have been changed by then but even if not if Corbyn is clearly failing to perform in the polls he will no longer be the freshfaced new hope but a damp squib and I cannot see many joining to back him. Indeed by 2003 Tory members were not exactly as effusive about IDS as they had been before
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Tragic though the Temples are particular targets as they are seen as temples of idolatry. I have read that ISIS may preserve the rest of the site as it offers a safe haven from airstrikes
Mr. Moses, like Mr. Borough, I do wonder if Labour will really elect Corbyn.
The number of purged votes compared to the ultimate winner's margin of victory will be an interesting statistic.
Also the possibility of the spoilt ballots. The paper requires 1,2,3 type entries but I understand from reports and Corby was sending reminders because some are putting "x" for the single candidate and no 2nd prefs.
The fall out is just going to be quite spectacular either way win or lose I suspect.
If you put an X in an AV vote is it a spoilt ballot or does it not just count as a 1 for the one marked X but eliminated vote if your candidate is eliminated? I think it works that way in Australia.
I understood from the report it is considered "spoilt"
Edit - just seen Calum's update so maybe they will now be accepted.
If that were treated as a spoilt ballot it would be a novel and unwelcome development in electoral administration. The governing principle has been "is the voter's intention clear?" for as long as I can remember. A single X in an AV/STV should always be functionally equivalent to a plump 1.
In Northern Ireland elections under STV a single X is counted as a 1st preference vote, but more than one is a spoiled ballot.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
George Orwell — 'The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.'
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
I travel a lot. I commonly have to get visas and part of the application is
naming of the sponsor in country? where I intend to stay and proof? for how long? what will I be doing or that I have meaningful work / employment.
I also need a financial backer that will support me when in country in case of any expenditures? medical treatment?
I also have to provide before departure letter of invite at flight desk, on arrival at immigration flight tickets booked already to go home.
This happens. Even in West African countries let along other places worldwide. If I don't do this I don't enter the country and get put back on the plane, boat, method of transport to my original boarding point.
Why can't we do that here? It's a simply way of ensuring people are legitimate workers.
It doesn't happen in the EU/EEA, and it would be absolutely revolutionary - real "pull up the drawbridge" stuff - if it were proposed, and the reciprocal measures would put our tourist industry to the sword. Younger people in particular are used to the idea that they can explore the continent as tourists if they want to. It doesn't even happen in the US, where you do need a visa but nothing like the sort of thing you describe. Nor is it needed in any of China, Japan, Vietnam, South Korea, Taiwan, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Peru, Colombia, Kenya, Singapore, all of which I've visited in the last couple of years with no more than a trivial visa process. It's a bit more complicated in Russia, though not as bad as you describe.
Oh, and it is of course incompatible with the EU. The chance of Merkel agreeing to it? Zero.
Another reason Corbyn is a disaster (number 85 in a list of 639), he is co-chair of Stop the War. Co-chair. This isn't some meeting where he accidentally praised a terrorist warlord, or some tea party where he mistakenly offered biscuits to the IRA's chief bomb maker, this is something he has CHOSEN to lead.
And Stop the War have endless suspicious and abhorrent opinions. e.g. they are against any criticism of the extremist, radical, segregating Muslim schools in the Trojan Horse case, because such criticism is deemed "Islamophobic".
There's acres of this stuff on the Stop the War website. Enough material for 10 years of tortuous PMQ's and vicious tabloid hatchet jobs.
Labour are committing an act of sectionable insanity.
SeanT: I mentioned this some time ago. Stop the War in August last year said that they were against bombing IS to help the Yazidis because the U.S. was doing the bombing. I agree with you that there is loads of this stuff but those who are voting for him either don't know or do know and don't care or do know and seek disingenuously to explain away or diminish this or do know and are voting for him precisely because he is anti- Western.
Corbyn claims to be on the side of the oppressed but he is only on the side of those oppressed groups who are politically useful to him ie those who he can claim are in some way oppressed by the West. Hence his support for Palestinians and his indifference to the Yazidis. If people are oppressed by someone other than the West Corbyn and his backers care nothing for them. Indeed, they are quite content to allow - as with IS and the Yazidis or the Assyrian Christians - the oppression to continue as there is no political benefit to them. It is a morally repulsive and wholly unprincipled position.
I actively hate Corbyn. Stupid and vain or nasty and malign, who cares. The man is a c*nt. When you read news like today's destruction of Palmyra, how can anyone sane possibly contemplate supporting a politician who fellow travels with Islamists? With ISIS? Because that is what he does.
Equally I have nothing but contempt for those Labour fools, like Palmer, who are pushing him to victory.
Well said, SeanT. Corbyn is a hater of all that made Western Civilization great in the past. If he gains even a modicum of power he will spread his hatred to all who support Labour.
Mr. Moses, like Mr. Borough, I do wonder if Labour will really elect Corbyn.
The number of purged votes compared to the ultimate winner's margin of victory will be an interesting statistic.
Also the possibility of the spoilt ballots. The paper requires 1,2,3 type entries but I understand from reports and Corby was sending reminders because some are putting "x" for the single candidate and no 2nd prefs.
The fall out is just going to be quite spectacular either way win or lose I suspect.
If you put an X in an AV vote is it a spoilt ballot or does it not just count as a 1 for the one marked X but eliminated vote if your candidate is eliminated? I think it works that way in Australia.
I understood from the report it is considered "spoilt"
Edit - just seen Calum's update so maybe they will now be accepted.
If that were treated as a spoilt ballot it would be a novel and unwelcome development in electoral administration. The governing principle has been "is the voter's intention clear?" for as long as I can remember. A single X in an AV/STV should always be functionally equivalent to a plump 1.
In Northern Ireland elections under STV a single X is counted as a 1st preference vote, but more than one is a spoiled ballot.
Which seems correct. More than one X: not a clear intention.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
The West are destroying Palmyra?
Our meddling has created this mess.
Of course it has. Our meddling causes it, our not meddling causes it, doing nothing for decades would be meaningless as our actions 80+ years ago would still be the cause of it, and so on and so forth.
I travel a lot. I commonly have to get visas and part of the application is
naming of the sponsor in country? where I intend to stay and proof? for how long? what will I be doing or that I have meaningful work / employment.
I also need a financial backer that will support me when in country in case of any expenditures? medical treatment?
I also have to provide before departure letter of invite at flight desk, on arrival at immigration flight tickets booked already to go home.
This happens. Even in West African countries let along other places worldwide. If I don't do this I don't enter the country and get put back on the plane, boat, method of transport to my original boarding point.
Why can't we do that here? It's a simply way of ensuring people are legitimate workers.
It doesn't happen in the EU/EEA, and it would be absolutely revolutionary - real "pull up the drawbridge" stuff - if it were proposed, and the reciprocal measures would put our tourist industry to the sword. Younger people in particular are used to the idea that they can explore the continent as tourists if they want to. It doesn't even happen in the US, where you do need a visa but nothing like the sort of thing you describe. Nor is it needed in any of China, Japan, Vietnam, South Korea, Taiwan, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Peru, Colombia, Kenya, Singapore, all of which I've visited in the last couple of years with no more than a trivial visa process. It's a bit more complicated in Russia, though not as bad as you describe.
Oh, and it is of course incompatible with the EU. The chance of Merkel agreeing to it? Zero.
Had to do this in China and special entries for more than one of the other countries you mention with similar requirements. So not entirely correct I'm afraid. Perhaps you got special treatment as an MP? Oh and we were talking about working not tourists and you should be aware of the difference.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Tragic though the Temples are particular targets as they are seen as temples of idolatry. I have read that ISIS may preserve the rest of the site as it offers a safe haven from airstrikes
The temples are the main event, there are theatres and colonnades elsewhere. It's the temples and the tombs which made Palmyra special, in that amazing location.
God, what a horror.
Besides, I'll be surprised if the teenage atrocity-porno-addicts running ISIS will be able to resist blowing up the theatre, too. They're on a crystal meth killing spree. They won't stop.
It surely cannot be hard to blow up all these things quickly either, so they do it on a drip feed, slowly, to maximise attention. Very calculating.
Another reason Corbyn is a disaster (number 85 in a list of 639), he is co-chair of Stop the War. Co-chair. This isn't some meeting where he accidentally praised a terrorist warlord, or some tea party where he mistakenly offered biscuits to the IRA's chief bomb maker, this is something he has CHOSEN to lead.
And Stop the War have endless suspicious and abhorrent opinions. e.g. they are against any criticism of the extremist, radical, segregating Muslim schools in the Trojan Horse case, because such criticism is deemed "Islamophobic".
There's acres of this stuff on the Stop the War website. Enough material for 10 years of tortuous PMQ's and vicious tabloid hatchet jobs.
Labour are committing an act of sectionable insanity.
SeanT: I mentioned this some time ago. Stop the War in August last year said that they were against bombing IS to help the Yazidis because the U.S. was doing the bombing. I agree with you that there is loads of this stuff but those who are voting for him either don't know or do know and don't care or do know and seek disingenuously to explain away or diminish this or do know and are voting for him precisely because he is anti- Western.
Corbyn claims to be on the side of the oppressed but he is only on the side of those oppressed groups who are politically useful to him ie those who he can claim are in some way oppressed by the West. Hence his support for Palestinians and his indifference to the Yazidis. If people are oppressed by someone other than the West Corbyn and his backers care nothing for them. Indeed, they are quite content to allow - as with IS and the Yazidis or the Assyrian Christians - the oppression to continue as there is no political benefit to them. It is a morally repulsive and wholly unprincipled position.
I actively hate Corbyn. Stupid and vain or nasty and malign, who cares. The man is a c*nt. When you read news like today's destruction of Palmyra, how can anyone sane possibly contemplate supporting a politician who fellow travels with Islamists? With ISIS? Because that is what he does.
Equally I have nothing but contempt for those Labour fools, like Palmer, who are pushing him to victory.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
I travel a lot. I commonly have to get visas and part of the application is
naming of the sponsor in country? where I intend to stay and proof? for how long? what will I be doing or that I have meaningful work / employment.
I also need a financial backer that will support me when in country in case of any expenditures? medical treatment?
I also have to provide before departure letter of invite at flight desk, on arrival at immigration flight tickets booked already to go home.
This happens. Even in West African countries let along other places worldwide. If I don't do this I don't enter the country and get put back on the plane, boat, method of transport to my original boarding point.
Why can't we do that here? It's a simply way of ensuring people are legitimate workers.
It doesn't happen in the EU/EEA, and it would be absolutely revolutionary - real "pull up the drawbridge" stuff - if it were proposed, and the reciprocal measures would put our tourist industry to the sword. Younger people in particular are used to the idea that they can explore the continent as tourists if they want to. It doesn't even happen in the US, where you do need a visa but nothing like the sort of thing you describe. Nor is it needed in any of China, Japan, Vietnam, South Korea, Taiwan, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Peru, Colombia, Kenya, Singapore, all of which I've visited in the last couple of years with no more than a trivial visa process. It's a bit more complicated in Russia, though not as bad as you describe.
Oh, and it is of course incompatible with the EU. The chance of Merkel agreeing to it? Zero.
It doesn't happen in a lot of places if you want to visit for a short stay either on business or for tourism. However, if you want to go there to work and live for the medium/long term then it's altogether another kettle of fish.
Some people have a strange idea that international travel and business was somehow impossible before we joined the EU. It wasn't, of course, and it was even possible to go and live in other countries in Europe and for foreigners to immigrate to the UK. The idea that leaving the EU would somehow end our tourist industry and our ability to be tourists is just daft.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
The West are destroying Palmyra?
Our meddling has created this mess.
Ridiculous. We made horrible errors, but Islamic extremism has its roots in specifically Islamic factors - especially the rise of Wahhabism - which predate Shock and Awe by decades.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
Both are horrible places to be sure, but neither of them ruin a stretch of the Thames as Reading does.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
George Orwell — 'The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.'
And it means that once the remnants of the history have been destroyed, the people will be next. IS will destroy everything and everyone in the land they control.
And IS supporters here - and I am in no doubt that IS people are entering Europe as we speak - will seek to do the same here.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
The Magic Roundabout is surely a site of great import.
Saw this piece from a depressed ABCer on Labourlist (comments below filled with the occasional bit of sickening stuff, but par for the course for the internet so I don't hold that against the site), and had to think, even under a worst case scenario of Corbyn (who most people are expecting to have a honeymoon period of some length at least), are Labour really vulnerable in Wales? I know Wales has its problems, but I'd always figured it was currently still secure for Labour.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
The West are destroying Palmyra?
Our meddling has created this mess.
Pathetic blame-shifting of which Galloway or Corbyn would be proud.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
Both are horrible places to be sure, but neither of them ruin a stretch of the Thames as Reading does.
I don't recall ever going there - it's just somewhere you drive past on the M4, presumably going to or from Swindon or Basingstoke
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Tragic though the Temples are particular targets as they are seen as temples of idolatry. I have read that ISIS may preserve the rest of the site as it offers a safe haven from airstrikes
The temples are the main event, there are theatres and colonnades elsewhere. It's the temples and the tombs which made Palmyra special, in that amazing location.
God, what a horror.
Besides, I'll be surprised if the teenage atrocity-porno-addicts running ISIS will be able to resist blowing up the theatre, too. They're on a crystal meth killing spree. They won't stop.
Yes. All deliberate. Drag it out, agonisingly. At one point ISIS posted a video showing they hadn't touched Palmyra. Of course it was a lie designed to raise hopes.
They have a Nazi-like gift for theatre. We await the Corbynite explanation as to whether this constitutes good or bad ISIS stuff.
This is a silly market. I reckon there's a fair chance that we've seen the last Labour majority ever.
It may be a while until we see another Conservative overall majority. Betfair (in a very thin market) has it as a 55% chance in 2020. There is the EU, the economy, Cameron's departure, events ...
It is quite possible that we may have 10-15 years of minority governments. And then a new generation will be in place and who knows? Corbyn will be in his eighties in the newly created Senate.
There may a Labour majority government (in 2035?) before there is Conservative majority (in 2045?). I'll be over 100 so I may never see the day.
The voters won't let Labour in control of the economy - either on its own or as part of a coalition - until it convinces that it has a plan that does not come with a serious risk of blowing the nation's finances yet again. Corbyn is taking them so far away from a convincing economic narrative, the only issue is how far backwards Labour travels under his leadership...
You think, not that it may actually happen. You purport your ideas onto reality. Really, you are just asking to be bitten on the backside.
I've pounded the pavements and had my conversations with the voters. I reported back very early on that the SNP was utterly toxic for Labour. And I'm reporting back that Labour has fuck all credibility on the economy. And that Corbyn is going to do the damn near impossible - make that worse.
I'll risk being bitten on the arse.
What are you putting up by way of anything credible?
Saw this piece from a depressed ABCer on Labourlist (comments below filled with the occasional bit of sickening stuff, but par for the course for the internet so I don't hold that against the site), and had to think, even under a worst case scenario of Corbyn (who most people are expecting to have a honeymoon period of some length at least), are Labour really vulnerable in Wales? I know Wales has its problems, but I'd always figured it was currently still secure for Labour.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
The West are destroying Palmyra?
Our meddling has created this mess.
You must be Corbyn's sidekick, Mr Crosby?
Been away, did you ever explain the point of your immigrant mobile phone tweet from earlier?
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
The Magic Roundabout is surely a site of great import.
Even ISIL wouldn't kill Florence or Zebedee, surely?
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
Both are horrible places to be sure, but neither of them ruin a stretch of the Thames as Reading does.
I don't recall ever going there - it's just somewhere you drive past on the M4, presumably going to or from Swindon or Basingstoke
The last time I was in Reading I'm sure I recall seeing road signs directing people to the 'City Centre', despite not being granted that status. For such presumption, some punishment is surely deserved.
Saw this piece from a depressed ABCer on Labourlist (comments below filled with the occasional bit of sickening stuff, but par for the course for the internet so I don't hold that against the site), and had to think, even under a worst case scenario of Corbyn (who most people are expecting to have a honeymoon period of some length at least), are Labour really vulnerable in Wales? I know Wales has its problems, but I'd always figured it was currently still secure for Labour.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
Both are horrible places to be sure, but neither of them ruin a stretch of the Thames as Reading does.
I don't recall ever going there - it's just somewhere you drive past on the M4, presumably going to or from Swindon or Basingstoke
Then you are fortunate Mr. B. Reading has always been awful. Jerome noted its awfulness as long ago as the 1880s. I thought it dreadful when I first went there nearly 50 years ago, when I was last there about 4 years ago it hadn't got any better just a lot bigger. Its full awfulness can really only be appreciated from the river, where it is a ghastly blot on an otherwise uniformly lovely path through southern England. Reading would not be given planning permission today.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
George Orwell — 'The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.'
And it means that once the remnants of the history have been destroyed, the people will be next. IS will destroy everything and everyone in the land they control.
And IS supporters here - and I am in no doubt that IS people are entering Europe as we speak - will seek to do the same here.
When they finish over there we sadly and undoubtedly will be next. Reports indicate they are now coming in with the migrants but what to do? Meanwhile we allow then to have the freedoms here and restrict our security services from doing an effective job? Go figure
Saw this piece from a depressed ABCer on Labourlist (comments below filled with the occasional bit of sickening stuff, but par for the course for the internet so I don't hold that against the site), and had to think, even under a worst case scenario of Corbyn (who most people are expecting to have a honeymoon period of some length at least), are Labour really vulnerable in Wales? I know Wales has its problems, but I'd always figured it was currently still secure for Labour.
It's not secure at all. The party lost Gower and Vale of Clwyd to the Tories at the General election and failed to win Cardiff North, one of their easiest targets in the UK. Similar results next year would put the Labour position in the Assembly in jeopardy. All of those seats were very easy Labour holds at the last Welsh election in 2011.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
The West are destroying Palmyra?
Our meddling has created this mess.
You must be Corbyn's sidekick, Mr Crosby?
Been away, did you ever explain the point of your immigrant mobile phone tweet from earlier?
I will explain to blockheads like you: For so called penniless, starving, poor immigrants to have smart phones, shows that they are neither penniless nor starving or poor. It's not the smart phones themselves however that shows that they are far from the asylum seekers that they would claim for themselves. Remember, it takes a provider for the phones to be of any use, and that demands cash. Mugs like you continue to welcome this criminal trash; so be it.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
Both are horrible places to be sure, but neither of them ruin a stretch of the Thames as Reading does.
I don't recall ever going there - it's just somewhere you drive past on the M4, presumably going to or from Swindon or Basingstoke
Tim B, your English geography is becoming challenged with years of absence. Basingstoke is on the M3.
Rather interesting piece from Progress about possible future Tory leadership contenders, with pieces on Osborne, May, Boris, Javid, Cameron redux and...Rudd.
Though I do like the description of Progress as 'Labour’s new mainstream'
Had to do this in China and special entries for more than one of the other countries you mention with similar requirements. So not entirely correct I'm afraid. Perhaps you got special treatment as an MP? Oh and we were talking about working not tourists and you should be aware of the difference.
Ah, you didn't mention that - but you were (I thought- perhaps I misunderstood you?) referring to a way of preventing an influx of people to Britain who would work illegally or even criminally. I agree that lots of countries have restrictions on legal work, but by definition someone who comes to Britain to undertake criminal activity won't be looking for a work permit.
For legal work, it's a perfectly feasible proposal, though not compatible with membership of the EEA.
Surely a person who makes such a comment cannot possibly face the British electorate in a general election.
I find it hard to believe that it could happen, but assume it does can you imagine the response if a Corbyn led Labour Party was going to win? There would be implications way beyond most general elections.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
Both are horrible places to be sure, but neither of them ruin a stretch of the Thames as Reading does.
I don't recall ever going there - it's just somewhere you drive past on the M4, presumably going to or from Swindon or Basingstoke
The last time I was in Reading I'm sure I recall seeing road signs directing people to the 'City Centre', despite not being granted that status. For such presumption, some punishment is surely deserved.
I've been to Reading over the years, and it has changed. As a youngster, I passed through in the mid-60s, when it still had trolley buses, and thought it a loud, smelly but bustling town. In the 80s my brother lived there and it was 'slit your wrists' depressing. I have since returned in both the 90s and naughties, and found it much improved but still unattractive, but no more so than, say, Basingstoke.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
The Magic Roundabout is surely a site of great import.
Even ISIL wouldn't kill Florence or Zebedee, surely?
Florence is improperly dressed and Zebeddee looks like he might be French. I think your worst nightmare might be a possibility
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
The West are destroying Palmyra?
Our meddling has created this mess.
You must be Corbyn's sidekick, Mr Crosby?
Been away, did you ever explain the point of your immigrant mobile phone tweet from earlier?
I will explain to blockheads like you: For so called penniless, starving, poor immigrants to have smart phones, shows that they are neither penniless nor starving or poor. It's not the smart phones themselves however that shows that they are far from the asylum seekers that they would claim for themselves. Remember, it takes a provider for the phones to be of any use, and that demands cash. .
The provider point may be reasonable - I don't know enough to say so or not - but the fact of them having phones still doesn't say anything about them being genuine asylum seekers or not, or genuinely being in economic distress or not. Phones are pretty cheap and very portable, and very useful to have when embarking on a desperate or not so desperate journey across the world. It really is not hard to see how someone could get hold of one very easily and keep hold of it for such a journey.
Saw this piece from a depressed ABCer on Labourlist (comments below filled with the occasional bit of sickening stuff, but par for the course for the internet so I don't hold that against the site), and had to think, even under a worst case scenario of Corbyn (who most people are expecting to have a honeymoon period of some length at least), are Labour really vulnerable in Wales? I know Wales has its problems, but I'd always figured it was currently still secure for Labour.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
The West are destroying Palmyra?
Our meddling has created this mess.
Pathetic blame-shifting of which Galloway or Corbyn would be proud.
In 2004 Brent Scowcroft quoted John Quincy Adams: "‘We go not abroad in search of monsters to destroy,'” he said. “Things are always harder than they look. Changing history, changing people, changing cultures is a slow, evolutionary process - and I think we’ll find that out in Iraq.”
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Reflect on their guilt?
George Orwell — 'The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.'
And it means that once the remnants of the history have been destroyed, the people will be next. IS will destroy everything and everyone in the land they control.
And IS supporters here - and I am in no doubt that IS people are entering Europe as we speak - will seek to do the same here.
When they finish over there we sadly and undoubtedly will be next. Reports indicate they are now coming in with the migrants but what to do? Meanwhile we allow then to have the freedoms here and restrict our security services from doing an effective job? Go figure
We either take hard-headed steps now or fight later. If we leave it until later the fight will be harder, longer and bloodier.
Of course, a Corbyn-led Labour Party (or even a Labour Party where he gets a lot of support but does not actually win) will make it that much harder to take the steps that are needed to combat Islamist extremism here. What are the chances of Corbyn and his mates supporting Cameron in what he said in his recent speech on the topic? So the security of all of us here is put at risk.
Not many people will care about the Yazidis and Palmyra and the Assyrians - or not enough. But they will care if some barbarity happens here - and Labour are seen to be as equivocal about condemning the perpetrators as Corbyn has been about condemning the IRA.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Very saddening. But what will the West do?
Tell ISIL that Scunthorpe and Milton Keynes are important and ancient religious sites
And Reading, especially Reading
Reading has a place in history - TE Lawrence lost his manuscript of 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom' while changing trains there.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
Both are horrible places to be sure, but neither of them ruin a stretch of the Thames as Reading does.
I don't recall ever going there - it's just somewhere you drive past on the M4, presumably going to or from Swindon or Basingstoke
Tim B, your English geography is becoming challenged with years of absence. Basingstoke is on the M3.
As CJ would say - I didn't get where I am today without knowing Basingstoke is on the M3
Serious question - presuming a Corbyn win and the conferences to follow, what will fill political days afterwards? Even a steady stream of Corbyn stories will get dull eventually - it is getting there, with this interminably long campaign - and brief interludes about american politics can only distract from the UK for so long.
Too many Daily Mail readers and believers on here tonight, and with that, sweet dreams of being in a retirement home with out any one to wipe your backsides.
As Doctor "pro Iraq war" Palmer is here, in his position as the leading pb Corbynite, perhaps he'd like to comment.
It would be hysterical if it wasn't so grotesque.
Even the Corbyn camp must be getting a bit concerned about reports like this.
IF he wins, I now think he will take Labour down to about 100 seats. Possibly fewer. He is just toxic. He will destroy what is left of the Labour brand for a generation at least.
I predicted this (I claim no great insight) months ago. The whole place will be slowly levelled. Their adolescent hunger for shock and horror makes them unable to resist.
I visited Palmyra in 1998. It's one of the four or five greatest surviving sites from the pre-industrial world. Up there with Macchu Picchu. Culturally, it's like losing all of Granada - or Cambridge.
The greatest cultural crime of my entire life, by a distance.
Tragic though the Temples are particular targets as they are seen as temples of idolatry. I have read that ISIS may preserve the rest of the site as it offers a safe haven from airstrikes
The temples are the main event, there are theatres and colonnades elsewhere. It's the temples and the tombs which made Palmyra special, in that amazing location.
God, what a horror.
Besides, I'll be surprised if the teenage atrocity-porno-addicts running ISIS will be able to resist blowing up the theatre, too. They're on a crystal meth killing spree. They won't stop.
Maybe but given the Coalition and Assad will not bomb Palymyra the prospect of a safe haven from bombing may focus minds
Forget the economy. Forget austerity. Forget benefit cuts and the bedroom tax. Forget the public sector pay freeze. Forget taxing the rich. Forget housing. Forget inequality. Forget everything Corbyn supporters are interested in. The public is not going to hear anything about any of these subjects.
The media is going to absolutely 100% annihilate him on the Monarchy, NATO, Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament, the Falklands, the IRA, ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah.
It's going to be completely devastating.
And the thing is that even if Corbyn is later deposed there is going to be overspill damage to the Labour brand which will adversely affect whoever takes over.
This is a silly market. I reckon there's a fair chance that we've seen the last Labour majority ever.
It may be a while until we see another Conservative overall majority. Betfair (in a very thin market) has it as a 55% chance in 2020. There is the EU, the economy, Cameron's departure, events ...
It is quite possible that we may have 10-15 years of minority governments. And then a new generation will be in place and who knows? Corbyn will be in his eighties in the newly created Senate.
There may a Labour majority government (in 2035?) before there is Conservative majority (in 2045?). I'll be over 100 so I may never see the day.
The voters won't let Labour in control of the economy - either on its own or as part of a coalition - until it convinces that it has a plan that does not come with a serious risk of blowing the nation's finances yet again. Corbyn is taking them so far away from a convincing economic narrative, the only issue is how far backwards Labour travels under his leadership...
"The voters won't let Labour in control of the economy"
The only way voters can achieve that is by voting for a Tory majority. A Tory minority won't crack it as the Tories have so few friends to work with.
You might be right, If you are convinced you can get 1.82 on a Tory majority at the next election on Betfair.
I wonder if the holding back of some of the election papers is in some way in hope that these sort of issues come to the surface in time and change opinions.
Or probably that's a conspiracy and a half too far?
Perhaps the Corbynistas were the first to vote and it's too late either way.
My sister-in-law fell crossing the road with 2 bags of shopping in Haywards Heath on Friday, breaking her elbow. They x-rayed her elbow and immobilized it in a full arm cast.
They asked her to go back in yesterday for a cat scan. They are not going to operate until next Thursday, in Brighton. Why does she have to wait a week in discomfort?
I see that buffoon Boris Johnson has written a piece in tomorrow's Telegraph calling on us to do something to help Syria. Well, maybe he and his government colleagues could start by acknowledging that their enthusiasm for the "Arab Spring" might have been an error.
Serious question - presuming a Corbyn win and the conferences to follow, what will fill political days afterwards? Even a steady stream of Corbyn stories will get dull eventually - it is getting there, with this interminably long campaign - and brief interludes about american politics can only distract from the UK for so long.
There will be even more Corbyn inspired nonsense as all the Labour MPs wrestle with the policies. I imagine we'll hear exemplary examples of very faint praise, and many shadow ministers may simply refuse to go anywhere near the press.
By the time it all settles down we'll have at least two Labour parties - although neither of them will be old Labour, or New Labour. And when all that's sorted we'll be so bored that we'll see what Mr Farron has to say for himself.
Well it is reaching fever pitch, I'll grant them that. I'll assume he cannot be as bad as recent reports make him sound, although if his comments are accurately reported on the, shall we say, troublesome topics, then best case is he was just being really stupid on some of them. It's been a while since I've seen one of his policy announcements that actually does seem fairly likely to have some popular appeal - media conspiracy no doubt - but throw out enough ideas and some will be decent, so if he wins he really needs to go overboard with the 'hope and change' stuff right quick before characterisation of him as a useless nutter takes hold, if it hasn't already (despite making some headway into the public consciousness this summer - as mentioned I've had non-voters and others who don't generally discuss politics with me because I am a total bore raise him with me, there likely still remain plenty who won't pay attention until he wins, if he does).
Saw this piece from a depressed ABCer on Labourlist (comments below filled with the occasional bit of sickening stuff, but par for the course for the internet so I don't hold that against the site), and had to think, even under a worst case scenario of Corbyn (who most people are expecting to have a honeymoon period of some length at least), are Labour really vulnerable in Wales? I know Wales has its problems, but I'd always figured it was currently still secure for Labour.
It's not secure at all. The party lost Gower and Vale of Clwyd to the Tories at the General election and failed to win Cardiff North, one of their easiest targets in the UK. Similar results next year would put the Labour position in the Assembly in jeopardy. All of those seats were very easy Labour holds at the last Welsh election in 2011.
Labour won 25 seats in Wales in 2015 20 in 1983 so at worst it would lose another 5
Forget the economy. Forget austerity. Forget benefit cuts and the bedroom tax. Forget the public sector pay freeze. Forget taxing the rich. Forget housing. Forget inequality. Forget everything Corbyn supporters are interested in. The public is not going to hear anything about any of these subjects.
The media is going to absolutely 100% annihilate him on the Monarchy, NATO, Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament, the Falklands, the IRA, ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah.
It's going to be completely devastating.
And the thing is that even if Corbyn is later deposed there is going to be overspill damage to the Labour brand which will adversely affect whoever takes over.
Indeed so.
As the PB Tories pointed out when the unthinkable, namely Jeremy Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party, first started being thought.
Deliciously, Labour members and supporters seem to be - just - beginning to appreciate these trivially obvious points, having already voted.
Rather interesting piece from Progress about possible future Tory leadership contenders, with pieces on Osborne, May, Boris, Javid, Cameron redux and...Rudd.
Though I do like the description of Progress as 'Labour’s new mainstream'
Comments
Enthusiasm.
I saw one joke post the other day on Facebook that the In Campaign will be "vote to stay In or the EU will deport your elderly in-laws back to the UK".
Corbyn claims to be on the side of the oppressed but he is only on the side of those oppressed groups who are politically useful to him ie those who he can claim are in some way oppressed by the West. Hence his support for Palestinians and his indifference to the Yazidis. If people are oppressed by someone other than the West Corbyn and his backers care nothing for them. Indeed, they are quite content to allow - as with IS and the Yazidis or the Assyrian Christians - the oppression to continue as there is no political benefit to them. It is a morally repulsive and wholly unprincipled position.
Let's hope politics changes as much in the next ten years as it has in the last.
Any attempt to depose Corbyn would just lead to more three-quidders signing up to defend their man...
This seems far too sensible to ever even be seriously considered
Even then they thought it was the end of the labour party and the rebirth of the liberal party.
Like many on the rabid left, Corbyn's lodestone is hatred not so much of the of the west generally, but of the USA in particular.
George Orwell — 'The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.'
Oh, and it is of course incompatible with the EU. The chance of Merkel agreeing to it? Zero.
#LandSlide
Oh and we were talking about working not tourists and you should be aware of the difference.
What about Swindon or Basingstoke?
Some people have a strange idea that international travel and business was somehow impossible before we joined the EU. It wasn't, of course, and it was even possible to go and live in other countries in Europe and for foreigners to immigrate to the UK. The idea that leaving the EU would somehow end our tourist industry and our ability to be tourists is just daft.
And IS supporters here - and I am in no doubt that IS people are entering Europe as we speak - will seek to do the same here.
http://labourlist.org/2015/08/wales-would-pay-the-highest-price-for-a-corbyn-victory/
Bad ISIS stuff.
I'll risk being bitten on the arse.
What are you putting up by way of anything credible?
For so called penniless, starving, poor immigrants to have smart phones, shows that they are neither penniless nor starving or poor. It's not the smart phones themselves however that shows that they are far from the asylum seekers that they would claim for themselves. Remember, it takes a provider for the phones to be of any use, and that demands cash. Mugs like you continue to welcome this criminal trash; so be it.
Though I do like the description of Progress as 'Labour’s new mainstream'
http://www.progressonline.org.uk/content/uploads/2015/08/Face-Off.pdf
For legal work, it's a perfectly feasible proposal, though not compatible with membership of the EEA.
If ISIS were blowing up Stonehenge, I suspect Corbyn would be cheering them on...
Of course, a Corbyn-led Labour Party (or even a Labour Party where he gets a lot of support but does not actually win) will make it that much harder to take the steps that are needed to combat Islamist extremism here. What are the chances of Corbyn and his mates supporting Cameron in what he said in his recent speech on the topic? So the security of all of us here is put at risk.
Not many people will care about the Yazidis and Palmyra and the Assyrians - or not enough. But they will care if some barbarity happens here - and Labour are seen to be as equivocal about condemning the perpetrators as Corbyn has been about condemning the IRA.
https://twitter.com/Emami2612/status/635882214887161856
Forget the economy. Forget austerity. Forget benefit cuts and the bedroom tax. Forget the public sector pay freeze. Forget taxing the rich. Forget housing. Forget inequality. Forget everything Corbyn supporters are interested in. The public is not going to hear anything about any of these subjects.
The media is going to absolutely 100% annihilate him on the Monarchy, NATO, Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament, the Falklands, the IRA, ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah.
It's going to be completely devastating.
And the thing is that even if Corbyn is later deposed there is going to be overspill damage to the Labour brand which will adversely affect whoever takes over.
The only way voters can achieve that is by voting for a Tory majority. A Tory minority won't crack it as the Tories have so few friends to work with.
You might be right, If you are convinced you can get 1.82 on a Tory majority at the next election on Betfair.
Or probably that's a conspiracy and a half too far?
Perhaps the Corbynistas were the first to vote and it's too late either way.
They asked her to go back in yesterday for a cat scan. They are not going to operate until next Thursday, in Brighton. Why does she have to wait a week in discomfort?
By the time it all settles down we'll have at least two Labour parties - although neither of them will be old Labour, or New Labour. And when all that's sorted we'll be so bored that we'll see what Mr Farron has to say for himself.
If he's lucky he'll get to meet me at East Lake in 3 weeks.
As the PB Tories pointed out when the unthinkable, namely Jeremy Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party, first started being thought.
Deliciously, Labour members and supporters seem to be - just - beginning to appreciate these trivially obvious points, having already voted.