politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just one local by-election tonight – what looks like an int

System

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just one local by-election tonight – what looks like an interesting LAB defence in Barnsley against UKIP

Dearne North on Barnsley (Lab defence)
Result of council at last election (2015): Labour 55, Conservatives 4, Independents 4 (Labour majority of 47)
Result of ward at last election (2014): Labour 1,179 (58%), United Kingdom Independence Party 752 (37%), Conservatives 103 (5%)
Candidates duly nominated:

Read the full story here

MP_SE

First.

downandout

Still no sign of my Labour voting ballot after paying £3 several weeks before the end of the Labour enrolment deadline. Emailed yesterday and had some joker replying to say it was issued on 19th so should no doubt be with me soon!? As this was over a week ago I'd suggest it probably won't be with me soon! - particularly as I understand these ballots were being sent out by email and i've been checking both the inbox and junk mailbox every day. This election process is either run by a bunch of complete incompetents or stinks to high heaven. Or both. I've requested a resend.

jayfdee

downandout said:

Still no sign of my Labour voting ballot after paying £3 several weeks before the end of the Labour enrolment deadline. Emailed yesterday and had some joker replying to say it was issued on 19th so should no doubt be with me soon!? As this was over a week ago I'd suggest it probably won't be with me soon! - particularly as I understand these ballots were being sent out by email and i've been checking both the inbox and junk mailbox every day. This election process is either run by a bunch of complete incompetents or stinks to high heaven. Or both. I've requested a resend.

Both.

kle4

Go UKIP! Anything to lessen the grip of single parties on councils

Disraeli

FPT
@PClipp
HEADLINE: LibDem praises competency of the Conservatives! "they know what they are doing"

"The Tories have got all this sort of thing well sussed out - they know what they are doing. "

john_zims

FPT

@PClipp

''Easy. You gerrymander the figures that are the basis for the calculations - so you introduce individual voter registration (believing that Tories are more stable and more likely to get registered). Then you bring forward the date for cutting off new registrations.'

So your definition of gerrymandering is voters that can't be arsed to register.

Are you having a laugh or you just prefer voter fraud ?

PClipp

john_zims said:

FPT @PClipp

''Easy. You gerrymander the figures that are the basis for the calculations - so you introduce individual voter registration (believing that Tories are more stable and more likely to get registered). Then you bring forward the date for cutting off new registrations.'

So your definition of gerrymandering is voters that can't be arsed to register. Are you having a laugh or you just prefer voter fraud ?

I have a feeling, Mr Zims, that you are of the Conservative persuasion.

HEADLINE: LibDem praises competency of the Conservatives! "they know what they are doing"
"The Tories have got all this sort of thing well sussed out - they know what they are doing. "

Indeed, Mr Disraeli. The Tories are competent (sometimes), ruthless, unscrupulous (always) - especially when their interests (self-interest, of course) might be affected.

Sean_F

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

kle4

You can tell David Blunkett has not been frontline in awhile, as this sentiment would not go down well with the current surging membership:

[On being appointed to the Lords]Optimistically, it may well be possible to block or delay the worst elements of the Conservative programme where this was not explicitly detailed in their manifesto and therefore legitimised in the general election

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34072201

tlg86

kle4 said:

Go UKIP! Anything to lessen the grip of single parties on councils

I don't know about that. I'm a Ukip supporter but ultimately this is a local council. Now, admittedly I did vote Ukip in our local this year, but then I'm not impressed with the Tories who run Woking. The point is, if Labour run the council well then that's fine with me - though I suppose down the road in Rotherham Labour haven't exactly been great.

kle4

tlg86 said:

kle4 said:

Go UKIP! Anything to lessen the grip of single parties on councils

I don't know about that. I'm Ukip supporter but ultimately this is a local council. Now, admittedly I did vote Ukip in our local this year, but then I'm not impressed with the Tories who run Woking. The point is, if Labour run the council well then that's fine with me - though I suppose down the road in Rotherham Labour haven't exactly been great.

I concede the basic point - if a council is in fact well run, then what does it matter if it is so dominated by a single group - but I have this worry that, whatever one's intentions, too much time in power, even local government power, and power which is too dominant, leads to bad behaviours, accentuating the negative aspects of politics and governance: arrogance, infighting and all the rest.

SquareRoot

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

Sean_F

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

kle4

We all know no-one is ever going to be totally happy with a new Lords intake - and sometimes with more reason than others - but are there are any appointees people are really happy to see have been granted peerages?

SquareRoot

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

Sean_F

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

tlg86

kle4 said:

tlg86 said:

kle4 said:

Go UKIP! Anything to lessen the grip of single parties on councils

I don't know about that. I'm Ukip supporter but ultimately this is a local council. Now, admittedly I did vote Ukip in our local this year, but then I'm not impressed with the Tories who run Woking. The point is, if Labour run the council well then that's fine with me - though I suppose down the road in Rotherham Labour haven't exactly been great.

I concede the basic point - if a council is in fact well run, then what does it matter if it is so dominated by a single group - but I have this worry that, whatever one's intentions, too much time in power, even local government power, and power which is too dominant, leads to bad behaviours, accentuating the negative aspects of politics and governance: arrogance, infighting and all the rest.

I think you have to live in the area to have a feel for what the council is like. Harry does a great job documenting all this stuff but what we don't know is the circumstance in which the by-election is being held. We had one of these a few years ago for our ward on Surrey County Council and it was because the person hadn't turned up for six months and no one had heard from them. I suspect that's why Ukip struggle to hold their seats in these by-elections. Unfortunately Ukip doesn't do local politics very well - except maybe in places like Barnsley - whereas the Lib Dems are quite good at it.

CarlottaVance

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

Spencer Livermore:

Spencer Livermore: Leading communications and strategy professional. Senior Labour Party strategist (1997 to 2008) and Director of Strategy to the Prime Minister (2007 to 2008). Senior campaign strategist for the Labour Party, including as Campaign Director of the 2015 general election campaign. Formerly Director of Strategy at Blue Rubicon and Senior Strategist at Saatchi & Saatchi.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dissolution-peerages-2015

Toms

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

The system stinks. There have always been and always will be cheaters, manipulators, and Prime nebbishes in and around government. An evolved system of government is interesting, but now we need a bit more definitive structure, to the Lords in particular, with checks & balances.

isam

The most important change that needs to happen in the other place is to change the name from the sickeningly chauvinistic "Lords" to something more equal like "Dames"

MarqueeMark

PClipp said:

The Tories are competent (sometimes), ruthless, unscrupulous (always) - especially when their interests (self-interest, of course) might be affected.

Although the Tories could still take some lessons from the Liberals/LibDems in hiding uncomfortable personal transgressions of their senior personnel when their interests (self-interest, of course) might be affected.

Sean_F

isam said:

The most important change that needs to happen in the other place is to change the name from the sickeningly chauvinistic "Lords" to something more equal like "Dames"

"Lord" is gender-neutral.

MyBurningEars

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

I had a good chuckle at this. As Tyson points out, you can be very pithy. Thought this exchange was brilliant. What more need be said?

RobD

Sean_F said:

isam said:

The most important change that needs to happen in the other place is to change the name from the sickeningly chauvinistic "Lords" to something more equal like "Dames"

"Lord" is gender-neutral.

House of Peers also seems pretty gender-neutral (although I suppose you can have 'peeress')

SquareRoot

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

In your opinion of course.. thankfully the appts were UKIP free or it would have been even more ghastly than usual.

Jonathan

House of Lords is ridiculous. It would be a joke if it didn't have a serious job to do.

Danny565

There was a Guardian Labour hustings tonight, btw.

Liz Kendall again showing why she's bombed. She was saying that Labour had to move towards the Tories on everything EXCEPT on immigration and the EU, where she said Labour had to stay true to what they believed no matter what the public thought. There are hardly any grassroots members for whom immigration and the EU are the top "red line" issues which they would choose as the issues they wouldn't want to compromise on, rather than welfare or economic left-wing policies.

Sean_F

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

In your opinion of course.. thankfully the appts were UKIP free or it would have been even more ghastly than usual.

That would hardly be possible.

kle4

RobD said:

Sean_F said:

isam said:

The most important change that needs to happen in the other place is to change the name from the sickeningly chauvinistic "Lords" to something more equal like "Dames"

"Lord" is gender-neutral.

House of Peers also seems pretty gender-neutral (although I suppose you can have 'peeress')

I used to think Peer just meant 'a member of the House of Lords', irrespective of gender, in order to distinguish from those nobility who do not have seats in the Lords. I know that's not correct, but if we have them it would be one way to distinguish.

Sean_F

Danny565 said:

There was a Guardian Labour hustings tonight, btw.

Liz Kendall again showing why she's bombed. She was saying that Labour had to move towards the Tories on everything EXCEPT on immigration and the EU, where she said Labour had to stay true to what they believed no matter what the public thought. There are hardly any grassroots members for whom immigration and the EU are the top "red line" issues which they would choose as the issues they wouldn't want to compromise on, rather than welfare or economic left-wing policies.

Liz Kendall is appalling. But, so are the alternatives.

SquareRoot

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

In your opinion of course.. thankfully the appts were UKIP free or it would have been even more ghastly than usual.

That would hardly be possible.

Really.. you need to look thro the list of UKIP candidates who have had to resign for one reason or another.. a pretty nasty lot .

HurstLlama

"... nebbishes" ..."

Bless my soul, it's not often we see Yiddish words on this site.

Jonathan

Just make everyone a Lord and be done with it.

kle4

I see Lord Sewell is still listed on wikipedia as the Chairman of the Committee for Privileges and Conduct. You'd think the sort of person who filled in the page in the first place would also be the sort to update that pretty quickly given recent events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_Privileges_and_Conduct

kle4

Jonathan said:

Just make everyone a Lord and be done with it.

Well, every englishman's home is his castle, is it not, so we're part way there?

Sorry Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish.

Sean_F

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

In your opinion of course.. thankfully the appts were UKIP free or it would have been even more ghastly than usual.

That would hardly be possible.

Really.. you need to look thro the list of UKIP candidates who have had to resign for one reason or another.. a pretty nasty lot .

So they are. Rather like Lords Archer, Hanningfield, Black, Taylor, Uddin, and Sewer.

Disraeli

PClipp said:

Indeed, Mr Disraeli. The Tories are competent (sometimes), ruthless, unscrupulous (always) - especially when their interests (self-interest, of course) might be affected.

A good summary @PClipp.
I would say that they were mostly unscrupulous (rather than always), and would add that they are adaptable, pragmatic, and focussed on attaining power - almost Machiavellian in fact.

Since getting their first decent majority in 1874 after years in opposition following the Peelite split they have been easily the most successful party in winning elections.

AlastairMeeks

Sky's presentation of the Balkan migration is very thorough. They should be proud of their work.

JEO

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

SquareRoot

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

In your opinion of course.. thankfully the appts were UKIP free or it would have been even more ghastly than usual.

That would hardly be possible.

Really.. you need to look thro the list of UKIP candidates who have had to resign for one reason or another.. a pretty nasty lot .

So they are. Rather like Lords Archer, Hanningfield, Black, Taylor, Uddin, and Sewer.

.... So the people now appointed to the Lords are no more ghastly than those who fortunately haven't been appointed or are already there.. so its a bit of a non story ...

AlastairMeeks

No one would travel through Hungary in the depths of winter.

JEO

Sky report now interviewing Swedes of Syrian background and even they say current volumes are too much. One saying that even if other countries took more, it wouldn't solve problem as it will just cost too much for Europe.

Sunil_Prasannan

Among nations with bicameral parliaments, The House of Lords is the only Upper Chamber bigger than its respective Lower Chamber, even before today's events.

Jonathan

Disraeli said:

PClipp said:

Indeed, Mr Disraeli. The Tories are competent (sometimes), ruthless, unscrupulous (always) - especially when their interests (self-interest, of course) might be affected.

A good summary @PClipp.
I would say that they were mostly unscrupulous (rather than always), and would add that they are adaptable, pragmatic, and focussed on attaining power - almost Machiavellian in fact.

Since getting their first decent majority in 1874 after years in opposition following the Peelite split they have been easily the most successful party in winning elections.

A fact that correlates with British economic decline. Coincidence? No.

Conservatives are the sort of people who would have had doubts about fire and the wheel.

Sean_F

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

In your opinion of course.. thankfully the appts were UKIP free or it would have been even more ghastly than usual.

That would hardly be possible.

Really.. you need to look thro the list of UKIP candidates who have had to resign for one reason or another.. a pretty nasty lot .

So they are. Rather like Lords Archer, Hanningfield, Black, Taylor, Uddin, and Sewer.

.... So the people now appointed to the Lords are no more ghastly than those who fortunately haven't been appointed or are already there.. so its a bit of a non story ...

The new people are indeed up to (or down to) the current standard.

MP_SE

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

In your opinion of course.. thankfully the appts were UKIP free or it would have been even more ghastly than usual.

That would hardly be possible.

Really.. you need to look thro the list of UKIP candidates who have had to resign for one reason or another.. a pretty nasty lot .

I am sure Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories have had no wrong'uns...

Not quite sure any UKIP councillor has been charge with racially aggravated assault. Unlike the Lib Dems...

kle4

So some Lords/Ladies are styled 'Lord X' and others as 'Lord X of Y' - the parliament website explicitly states some should be referred to as the former, others the latter, so why are some to be referred to as Lords of a place, and others not, even where their formal title has them as such*? Personal preference?

*eg Robert Rogers is to be referred to as Lord Lisvane, though he is 'Baron Lisvane, of Blakemere in the County of Herefordshire and of Lisvane in the City and County of Cardiff'

Sean_F

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

Sunil_Prasannan

Looks like I need to update the "UK" bar on my chart of Upper House %-wise sizes!

Sunil_Prasannan

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

And Cameron too

Sunil_Prasannan

kle4 said:

So some Lords/Ladies are styled 'Lord X' and others as 'Lord X of Y' - the parliament website explicitly states some should be referred to as the former, others the latter, so why are some to be referred to as Lords of a place, and others not, even where their formal title has them as such*? Personal preference?

*eg Robert Rogers is to be referred to as Lord Lisvane, though he is 'Baron Lisvane, of Blakemere in the County of Herefordshire and of Lisvane in the City and County of Cardiff'

Lord Smithson of PB.com

kle4

Sunil_Prasannan said:

kle4 said:

So some Lords/Ladies are styled 'Lord X' and others as 'Lord X of Y' - the parliament website explicitly states some should be referred to as the former, others the latter, so why are some to be referred to as Lords of a place, and others not, even where their formal title has them as such*? Personal preference?

*eg Robert Rogers is to be referred to as Lord Lisvane, though he is 'Baron Lisvane, of Blakemere in the County of Herefordshire and of Lisvane in the City and County of Cardiff'

Lord Smithson of PB.com

Ooh, do you get a certain level of honour after a certain number of posts? Pre-vanilla does not count, obviously.

MyBurningEars

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

Perhaps in twenty years time the CDU/CSU will benefit from "not being the nasty party".

Cameron's positioning is in many ways more stupid: at the same time as more people than ever settle in our country, he is positioning himself as opposed to (or at least "tough on", or "wishes he could be tougher on") them. So when they or their kids start to vote, it isn't the historic and unprecedented generosity of Tory immigration policy - which they have greatly benefited from - which will be forefront in their mind.

ReggieCide

john_zims said:

FPT

@PClipp

''Easy. You gerrymander the figures that are the basis for the calculations - so you introduce individual voter registration (believing that Tories are more stable and more likely to get registered). Then you bring forward the date for cutting off new registrations.'

So your definition of gerrymandering is voters that can't be arsed to register.

Are you having a laugh or you just prefer voter fraud ?

voter fraud seems endemic in Labour elections wherever/ whatever, so nuff said

Sean_F

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

And Cameron too

Whatever his faults, Cameron is preferable to Merkel.

Sunil_Prasannan

Sean_F said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

And Cameron too

Whatever his faults, Cameron is preferable to Merkel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34071492

Sean_F

MyBurningEars said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

Perhaps in twenty years time the CDU/CSU will benefit from "not being the nasty party".

Cameron's positioning is in many ways more stupid: at the same time as more people than ever settle in our country, he is positioning himself as opposed to (or at least "tough on", or "wishes he could be tougher on") them. So when they or their kids start to vote, it isn't the historic and unprecedented generosity of Tory immigration policy - which they have greatly benefited from - which will be forefront in their mind.

20 years from now, the new German voters will be solid supporters of Die Linke.

Sunil_Prasannan

antifrank said:

No one would travel through Hungary in the depths of winter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34073534

JEO

Poland is worried that if Europe is taking in all the migrants from the warzone of Syria, Ukrainians might start having a mass exodus:

https://euobserver.com/migration/130016

MyBurningEars

Sean_F said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

And Cameron too

Whatever his faults, Cameron is preferable to Merkel.

It might be unfair criteria to compare Merkel versus Cameron on the grounds of who is a preferable conservative, since the CDU isn't a "conservative" party in the same sense that the Tories are. Put in Weimar terms, the CDU are much more the successors of the Zentrum than they are of the Deutschnationale Volkspartei, and Merkel's "thing" has always been the art of pragmatic compromise rather the vigorous defence of strongly-held beliefs (hence merkelsch meaning ponderous and calculating, or merkeln meaning indecisive or without expressing opinion).

ReggieCide

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

Never mind those that are there automatically

AndyJS

antifrank said:

Sky's presentation of the Balkan migration is very thorough. They should be proud of their work.

Their coverage is slightly less biased in favour of immigration than the BBC's.

Danny565

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

ReggieCide

RobD said:

Sean_F said:

isam said:

The most important change that needs to happen in the other place is to change the name from the sickeningly chauvinistic "Lords" to something more equal like "Dames"

"Lord" is gender-neutral.

House of Peers also seems pretty gender-neutral (although I suppose you can have 'peeress')

Where would that leave peerless?

Cyclefree

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

As if we don't have enough problems emanating from the Middle East without inviting into Europe all its inhabitants, who do after all bear some responsibility for the mess it finds itself in.

Cyclefree

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

There was an item on it on the radio this morning. Presumably local news has been covering it.

Tykejohnno

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

On immigration,she's turning out to be abit of a fruitcake,her actions are causing mass migration.

Wonder if this subject is starting to hit her party in the polls ?

AndyJS

Newsnight's first item was an interview with someone in favour of allowing more refugees into Europe with no-one putting an alternative view.

kle4

Cyclefree said:

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

There was an item on it on the radio this morning. Presumably local news has been covering it.

I feel sure I would have heard about it before now had it been in the south east. Granted, maybe that's because I'm in the SW, but I'm with Danny565 on this one if indeed things have been as [belatedly] reported.

Disraeli

Jonathan said:

Disraeli said:

PClipp said:

Indeed, Mr Disraeli. The Tories are competent (sometimes), ruthless, unscrupulous (always) - especially when their interests (self-interest, of course) might be affected.

A good summary @PClipp.
I would say that they were mostly unscrupulous (rather than always), and would add that they are adaptable, pragmatic, and focussed on attaining power - almost Machiavellian in fact.

Since getting their first decent majority in 1874 after years in opposition following the Peelite split they have been easily the most successful party in winning elections.

A fact that correlates with British economic decline. Coincidence? No.

Conservatives are the sort of people who would have had doubts about fire and the wheel.

It also correlates with the rise of the Labour party.
And if you pull the legs of a spider it goes deaf!

(Beware of the old trap "post hoc ergo propter hoc")

"Conservatives are the sort of people who would have had doubts about fire and the wheel."
Absolutely, and while their opponents were burning their hands and chasing runaway wheels down the hill, they would then have decided that there was money to be made and developed these two wonderful advances into something useful.

GarethoftheVale2

Tykejohnno said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

On immigration,she's turning out to be abit of a fruitcake,her actions are causing mass migration.

Wonder if this subject is starting to hit her party in the polls ?

I wonder if she is leading this or whether she is being pushed into it by her coalition partners in the SPD

MyBurningEars

Sean_F said:

MyBurningEars said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

Perhaps in twenty years time the CDU/CSU will benefit from "not being the nasty party".

Cameron's positioning is in many ways more stupid: at the same time as more people than ever settle in our country, he is positioning himself as opposed to (or at least "tough on", or "wishes he could be tougher on") them. So when they or their kids start to vote, it isn't the historic and unprecedented generosity of Tory immigration policy - which they have greatly benefited from - which will be forefront in their mind.

20 years from now, the new German voters will be solid supporters of Die Linke.

Not sure. Comparisons to the Turkish vote might be misleading, but historically Turkish Germans voted strongly for the SPD (unsurprisingly, particularly since so many Turks worked in manual jobs) and more recently in large numbers for the Greens. The CDU/CSU has also got in on the act and has been capturing a respectable chunk of the Turkish vote. Die Linke barely feature on the radar at all. Nor do the Erdogan-inspired Islamists, the Bündnis für Innovation und Gerechtigkeit (Alliance for Innovation and Justice).

But it's difficult to say how that would work out for a different generation of migrants coming from a different background. Die Linke is pretty far-out on the left so I'm sceptical it would provide a natural home for many of the migrants.

Tykejohnno

AndyJS said:

Newsnight's first item was an interview with someone in favour of allowing more refugees into Europe with no-one putting an alternative view.

That's the guardian take over of the programme for you.

Cyclefree

kle4 said:

Cyclefree said:

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

There was an item on it on the radio this morning. Presumably local news has been covering it.

I feel sure I would have heard about it before now had it been in the south east. Granted, maybe that's because I'm in the SW, but I'm with Danny565 on this one if indeed things have been as [belatedly] reported.

It has been reported before because I had certainly heard of it before today. I agree that 1 cm of snow in London is treated as some sort of major tragedy just because reporters think there is no world outside the M25. So I agree that reporting priorities can be a bit skewed. Just saying that this story has not been totally ignored, that's all.

Disraeli

Sean_F said:

20 years from now, the new German voters will be solid supporters of Die Linke.

... or a new party called "Die muslimische Partei"

Sunil_Prasannan

826/650 = 127%

MyBurningEars

Disraeli said:

Sean_F said:

20 years from now, the new German voters will be solid supporters of Die Linke.

... or a new party called "Die muslimische Partei"

Already is one: Bündnis für Innovation und Gerechtigkeit.

not_on_fire

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

Cameron would have gone on TV promising that "money is no object"

kle4

Cyclefree said:

kle4 said:

Cyclefree said:

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

There was an item on it on the radio this morning. Presumably local news has been covering it.

I feel sure I would have heard about it before now had it been in the south east. Granted, maybe that's because I'm in the SW, but I'm with Danny565 on this one if indeed things have been as [belatedly] reported.

It has been reported before because I had certainly heard of it before today. I agree that 1 cm of snow in London is treated as some sort of major tragedy just because reporters think there is no world outside the M25. So I agree that reporting priorities can be a bit skewed. Just saying that this story has not been totally ignored, that's all.

I'm don't really disagree, just emphasise a different part of the same point - of course it has been reported and my own failure to notice it is not proof of it not being mentioned at all, but as a casual news gatherer, if it had been London then, as you point out, I'd have had no choice to learn about it, in the same way the BBC frontpage has ensured I learn things about Strictly come dancing and the Great British Bake Off despite not having seen a second of either nor seeking out anything about either.

Disraeli

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

I'd not heard this Danny - and you are right BTW.
How much of Lancashire is affected? All of it? Over half?

foxinsoxuk

Cyclefree said:

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

There was an item on it on the radio this morning. Presumably local news has been covering it.

Its been on 5live breakfast quite a bit over the weeks. Honestly, does everyone have to be a victim nowadays? Whaterver happened to stoicism and a stiff upper lip?

Scrapheap_as_was

did I miss Lords Ave It & Jack W amongst today's gong-out?

Luckyguy1983

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

SquareRoot said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

There have been ghastly people appointed to the Lords for centuries.

I wouldn't dispute that. Now, we have a few more.

So your point is?

That some ghastly people have been appointed to the Lords.

In your opinion of course.. thankfully the appts were UKIP free or it would have been even more ghastly than usual.

That would hardly be possible.

Really.. you need to look thro the list of UKIP candidates who have had to resign for one reason or another.. a pretty nasty lot .

Any list of people who have had to resign for one reason or another is a pretty nasty lot. Hence them having to resign. It's not quantum physics.

foxinsoxuk

Is there a more certain way of tagging vagabonds, bounders and chancers than wrapping them in ermine cloaks and corralling them away from the public? Surely any self respecting person would refuse such a shame as a title? so these are self selecting varmints.

The bit that puzzlezs me is that they seem to be given the task of windbagging rather than breaking rocks in the hot sun in a chain gang. Perhaps its out of deference to their age and infirmity.

FluffyThoughts

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Among nations with bicameral parliaments, The House of Lords is the only Upper Chamber bigger than its respective Lower Chamber, even before today's events.

Are you trying to break the t'Internet with your repeatative - snidey - jokes? Get a new perspective Sun'; or get a life....

Casino_Royale

Jonathan said:

Just make everyone a Lord and be done with it.

You'd make Baldrick a Lord?

OchEye

foxinsoxuk said:

Cyclefree said:

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

There was an item on it on the radio this morning. Presumably local news has been covering it.

Its been on 5live breakfast quite a bit over the weeks. Honestly, does everyone have to be a victim nowadays? Whaterver happened to stoicism and a stiff upper lip?

80,000 houses now do not need to boil drinking water as of today. 200,000 still do after 3 weeks.

That is all water that you drink, cook with and wash your teeth and hands with.

JEO

MyBurningEars said:

Sean_F said:

MyBurningEars said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

Perhaps in twenty years time the CDU/CSU will benefit from "not being the nasty party".

Cameron's positioning is in many ways more stupid: at the same time as more people than ever settle in our country, he is positioning himself as opposed to (or at least "tough on", or "wishes he could be tougher on") them. So when they or their kids start to vote, it isn't the historic and unprecedented generosity of Tory immigration policy - which they have greatly benefited from - which will be forefront in their mind.

20 years from now, the new German voters will be solid supporters of Die Linke.

Not sure. Comparisons to the Turkish vote might be misleading, but historically Turkish Germans voted strongly for the SPD (unsurprisingly, particularly since so many Turks worked in manual jobs) and more recently in large numbers for the Greens. The CDU/CSU has also got in on the act and has been capturing a respectable chunk of the Turkish vote. Die Linke barely feature on the radar at all. Nor do the Erdogan-inspired Islamists, the Bündnis für Innovation und Gerechtigkeit (Alliance for Innovation and Justice).

But it's difficult to say how that would work out for a different generation of migrants coming from a different background. Die Linke is pretty far-out on the left so I'm sceptical it would provide a natural home for many of the migrants.

So conservatives should support taking in vast numbers of left wing voters so that they can stand a chance of winning a slightly larger minority of them?

FluffyThoughts

Cyclefree said:

It has been reported before because I had certainly heard of it before today. I agree that 1 cm of snow in London is treated as some sort of major tragedy just because reporters think there is no world outside the M25. So I agree that reporting priorities can be a bit skewed. Just saying that this story has not been totally ignored, that's all.

Oh dear,

You have heard of 'parallel universes'? Just because London exists does not mean that Bedford does not....

isam

Have they made a massive Rick w the headline here?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/27/benefits-death-claimants-welfare-ids_n_8047424.html

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

I can think of far worse appointees that Cameron could have made.

I'm pleased Hague, Sir George Young and James Arbuthnot have joined.

Sunil_Prasannan

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

I heard about it last week.

foxinsoxuk

OchEye said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Cyclefree said:

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.

If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

There was an item on it on the radio this morning. Presumably local news has been covering it.

Its been on 5live breakfast quite a bit over the weeks. Honestly, does everyone have to be a victim nowadays? Whaterver happened to stoicism and a stiff upper lip?

80,000 houses now do not need to boil drinking water as of today. 200,000 still do after 3 weeks.

That is all water that you drink, cook with and wash your teeth and hands with.

I know. It has been on 5live a lot, with interviews etc. Cryptosporidium is hard to eliminate. It is quite a tough little beast. It is also slow to culture so it takes some time to prove that a sample is clear.

Sunil_Prasannan

FluffyThoughts said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Among nations with bicameral parliaments, The House of Lords is the only Upper Chamber bigger than its respective Lower Chamber, even before today's events.

Are you trying to break the t'Internet with your repeatative - snidey - jokes? Get a new perspective Sun'; or get a life....

Not a joke, Fluffy, the sad truth

https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/637020695478824960

PClipp

Disraeli said:

Danny565 said:

By the way, anyone who says there isn't a bias against the North from the Establishment - Lancashire has been without clean water for 3 weeks now, yet there's been barely any mention of it in the news.
If it was happening in Surrey, you can bet that the BBC would be clearing their schedules to have rolling coverage on it, and Cameron would be personally ordering in unlimited supplies of water to compensate.

I'd not heard this Danny - and you are right BTW. How much of Lancashire is affected? All of it? Over half?

I think it was just the parts where the Tories gave the green light to fracking.

They also had earthquakes, of course.

bigjohnowls

Sunil_Prasannan said:

826/650 = 127%

330,000/100,000 Net immigration = ??

Casino_Royale

AndyJS said:

Newsnight's first item was an interview with someone in favour of allowing more refugees into Europe with no-one putting an alternative view.

You do wonder what the endgame is here. I mean, will they only be satisfied once everyone in the developing world who wants to move here (hundreds of millions) does? Is there any limit to the numbers that they exceeding would cease to be sensible? And what limit, if any, on numbers would they place?

I'd love to see a BBC journalist ask those questions of a pro-mass immigration pundit. It'll never happen, of course.

Richard_Nabavi

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

There are some ghastly people appointed to the Lords today. Greg Barker, Douglas Hogg, Anne McIntosh, Andrew Lansley.

I can think of far worse appointees that Cameron could have made.

I'm pleased Hague, Sir George Young and James Arbuthnot have joined.

And James Lupton - one of the most impressive people I have ever come across.

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

Merkel is basically a SPD Chancellor in blue colours, with a mild tinge of common sense on economics, and who flies the German flag now and again. Usually at the football.

MyBurningEars

JEO said:

MyBurningEars said:

Sean_F said:

MyBurningEars said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Sky's news report on migration from Syria is stunning. They actually have one young guy saying "We just need to get to the nearest village in Germany. Even if the police catch us, they won't send us back." They're also reporting that this is clearly not a peak of the migration - it's the new normal and Hungary is actually expecting numbers to increase.

Angela Merkel wants all of the Middle East to migrate to Germany. She is an utterly useless conservative leader.

Perhaps in twenty years time the CDU/CSU will benefit from "not being the nasty party".

Cameron's positioning is in many ways more stupid: at the same time as more people than ever settle in our country, he is positioning himself as opposed to (or at least "tough on", or "wishes he could be tougher on") them. So when they or their kids start to vote, it isn't the historic and unprecedented generosity of Tory immigration policy - which they have greatly benefited from - which will be forefront in their mind.

20 years from now, the new German voters will be solid supporters of Die Linke.

Not sure. Comparisons to the Turkish vote might be misleading, but historically Turkish Germans voted strongly for the SPD (unsurprisingly, particularly since so many Turks worked in manual jobs) and more recently in large numbers for the Greens. The CDU/CSU has also got in on the act and has been capturing a respectable chunk of the Turkish vote. Die Linke barely feature on the radar at all. Nor do the Erdogan-inspired Islamists, the Bündnis für Innovation und Gerechtigkeit (Alliance for Innovation and Justice).

But it's difficult to say how that would work out for a different generation of migrants coming from a different background. Die Linke is pretty far-out on the left so I'm sceptical it would provide a natural home for many of the migrants.

So conservatives should support taking in vast numbers of left wing voters so that they can stand a chance of winning a slightly larger minority of them?

I'd hope migration policy isn't actually set on grounds of partisan advantage, but to be honest that probably plays a part in it. If you are going to run a policy of mass inward migration, it does seem politically more sensible to tell the new arrivals how much you love them all rather than how much you would love to be able to send them back.