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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    malcolmg said:


    The problem is well documented. The BBC takes £320M out of Scotland and spends a pittance on Scottish programmes , content , etc.
    As I said exactly mirrors Westminster.

    But Wales faces exactly the same problem - indeed, I would guess on a larger scale, given it has a smaller and I suspect (I don't know for sure) rather older population, higher overheads, and most of the rather cretinous and geographically challenged BBC executives in London have probably never even heard of it (which certainly won't be the case for Scotland)! So how is it that they are doing OK, and Scotland are not? That's why I think there is more to it than just a question of cash or structure, and I think Sturgeon would be better off finding out what it is and then attacking the BBC on that basis.

    I may be doing her an injustice of course - she may have been asking questions for months, and this is her answer - but since her version won't be accepted, she's just wasting her time. Which doesn't seem terribly helpful to anyone.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is interesting, on a careful check, to see that there's only really one big show produced by BBC Scotland at the moment, Mrs Brown's Boys. There's lots of other classics made by BBC Scotland (e.g. Balamory) but they all seem to have ceased production some years ago. Meanwhile, BBC Wales has about seven or eight, including Sherlock and Doctor Who (both of which are run by a Glaswegian, admittedly a much over-rated one) and Casualty.

    That does seem odd. Why can't BBC Scotland compete? I think there's probably a bit more to it than 'anti-Celtic bias'. Maybe it's got a dud management structure? If it's worse than that of the Beeb as a whole, however, then it must be quite something.

    BBC Cymru Wales does seem to be operating in a far more effective way than their counterparts in Scotland.

    Perhaps the focus on running BBC Alba (producing programmes in a language spoken by under 60.000 people (as of the 2011 census)) is taking too many resources from other areas.
    LOL, you are on the ball. They put in a miniscule amount to it ie a few million pounds , and it gets 600K viewers which is probably more than the BBC get lots of times.
    It doesn't get 600K viewers - it has a smaller number of people who watch a number of shows in any one given counting period.

    That is just playing with numbers to try to make the station sound as if it is viable.

    There are under 60,000 Gaelic speakers - the majority of whom live in the Outer Hebrides.

    That would be something of a miracle since their entire population is just over 27,000.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Thicko, you have obviously never been in Scotland or know that BBC Scotland produce ZERO, they just take pap from London. All our licence money like everything else is spent in London.
    Dicksplash, I lived for six years in Scotland, so jog on.

    Talking out of your sporran, as usual.
    cretin , you could not find Scotland on a map. Back to spending your JSA loser.
    Blowing off randomly as usual like a set of badly tuned bagpipes. That insult was about as original as a one-legged Haggis.

    You must try harder, or you will be sent back to base camp for re-chipping.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    One hopes you read the dates of when those programmes were made, most are from around the time of your fake age.
    23 ongoing productions. Last time I checked, more than zero ;)
    Name them Rob, I dare you
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    edited August 2015
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    You have to admire the Tories, they are happy to show their graft in public , no need to hide it, lets charge our chums for our help.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/26/conservatives-offer-day-of-special-access-to-ministers-for-2500

    Yeah, they are all at it.

    http://news.stv.tv/scotland/155514-parliament-watchdogs-probe-snp-cash-for-access-claims/
    Rob, Unfortunately for you that was proved to be bollox and downright lies. Same cannot be said for your chums.
    Really? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/feb/26/alex-salmond-nicola-sturgeon-holyrood-fundraising

    "...However, he [Salmond] admitted that several such lunches had been organised but each was cancelled after the row erupted...."

    Do post evidence backing up your claim.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    One hopes you read the dates of when those programmes were made, most are from around the time of your fake age.
    23 ongoing productions. Last time I checked, more than zero ;)
    Name them Rob, I dare you
    Just search for the word 'present' on that wikipedia page. It'll show which are still in production.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    edited August 2015

    How about Waterloo Road.. just finished recently..all Scottish production.. dropped because of the poor viewing figures ..in Scotland..

    To be fair it was absolutely dire!

    As a matter of interest how many BBC programmes are made in the East Midlands? We want local shows for local people...
    There used to be some good productions based in Birmingham (Pebble Mill) in the 70s and 80s - I think they used to handle Countryfile as well in the days when it was a farming programme not a natural history programme gone wrong. Not sure if there still are any programmes made in Brum though. I'm fairly sure there won't be many on the East Midlands...

    EDIT - They (BIrmingham) appear to be responsible for Coast, which when you think about it is deliciously ironic! I would guess it's because the OU is involved and Birmingham is easy to get to from Milton Keynes.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003

    How about Waterloo Road.. just finished recently..all Scottish production.. dropped because of the poor viewing figures ..in Scotland..

    To be fair it was absolutely dire!

    As a matter of interest how many BBC programmes are made in the East Midlands? We want local shows for local people...
    Doddery probably wrote the dire script. You should get some local content as well.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    One hopes you read the dates of when those programmes were made, most are from around the time of your fake age.
    23 ongoing productions. Last time I checked, more than zero ;)
    Kindly do not confuse "The Ayrshire Turnip" with facts, much less figures as in Nat-World "ZERO" = 23 whenever they say it is.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    One hopes you read the dates of when those programmes were made, most are from around the time of your fake age.
    23 ongoing productions. Last time I checked, more than zero ;)
    Kindly do not confuse "The Ayrshire Turnip" with facts, much less figures as in Nat-World "ZERO" = 23 whenever they say it is.

    Maybe 0 = 23 is the kind of maths needed to balance the books in the new $40/barrel economy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003
    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    Next you'll be telling me you actually engage your solitary brain cell before posting.

    Like being ravaged by a dead sheep as they say. Struggling to find your teeth so that you can get a better fake insult out.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003
    edited August 2015
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    One hopes you read the dates of when those programmes were made, most are from around the time of your fake age.
    23 ongoing productions. Last time I checked, more than zero ;)
    Kindly do not confuse "The Ayrshire Turnip" with facts, much less figures as in Nat-World "ZERO" = 23 whenever they say it is.

    At least I am a real Scottish person , not a giant FAKE.

    Anyway we are not all idle rich fakers, real people need to go do some work.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    One hopes you read the dates of when those programmes were made, most are from around the time of your fake age.
    23 ongoing productions. Last time I checked, more than zero ;)
    Kindly do not confuse "The Ayrshire Turnip" with facts, much less figures as in Nat-World "ZERO" = 23 whenever they say it is.

    At least I am a real Scottish person , not a giant FAKE.
    Ooooo... handbags!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    Next you'll be telling me you actually engage your solitary brain cell before posting.

    Like being ravaged by a dead sheep as they say.
    I'm not interested in your sexual activities with deceased animals.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869
    ydoethur said:

    How about Waterloo Road.. just finished recently..all Scottish production.. dropped because of the poor viewing figures ..in Scotland..

    To be fair it was absolutely dire!

    As a matter of interest how many BBC programmes are made in the East Midlands? We want local shows for local people...
    There used to be some good productions based in Birmingham (Pebble Mill) in the 70s and 80s - I think they used to handle Countryfile as well in the days when it was a farming programme not a natural history programme gone wrong. Not sure if there still are any programmes made in Brum though. I'm fairly sure there won't be many on the East Midlands...
    Birmingham in the East Midlands? Gah.

    Even the Govt put it in the West Midlands.

    Is nothing sacred? ;-)


  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ydoethur said:

    How about Waterloo Road.. just finished recently..all Scottish production.. dropped because of the poor viewing figures ..in Scotland..

    To be fair it was absolutely dire!

    As a matter of interest how many BBC programmes are made in the East Midlands? We want local shows for local people...
    There used to be some good productions based in Birmingham (Pebble Mill) in the 70s and 80s - I think they used to handle Countryfile as well in the days when it was a farming programme not a natural history programme gone wrong. Not sure if there still are any programmes made in Brum though. I'm fairly sure there won't be many on the East Midlands...
    Brum? Not local enough.

    What happened to Rutland Weekend Television?

    If BBC radio Leicester is anything to judge by we should be glad that it is mostly national stuff we get.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Just turned Radio Scotland back on. Had to turn off during an interview with oor Meenister o'Cultchurrr Hyslop wittering on about oor FM's new idea for Radio SNP and SNP .TV, to be run as part of a federal system alongside the national BBC. Must admit she had learnt her script well, even as most listeners were realising she hadn't a clue what she was talking about.

    Must be a big story about to break that the SNP don't want to talk about. Please, MalcolmG, can you tell us from deepest, darkest Berwick? Or must we wait to hear from the Phoney Rev. Whinging Frae Bath?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    edited August 2015
    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    Back on topic, can anyone think of any mistake that Labour haven't yet made since May that they could still make? First they mess up the election procedure, then they shoot the leader too quickly, then they nominate some random nobody to replace him even though nobody wants him as leader, then they make him the favourite, then all the other candidates start squabbling among themselves over who is to blame for this, then they start randomly kicking people off the voting register in the middle of a McCarthyite witch-hunt for infiltrators, then they discover that one of their candidates has some associations so unsavoury that even Owen Jones criticises him for not checking their antecedents, and now they announce that they are going to put the numbers out so everyone can see exactly how the election was messed up, and start shouting about how it was rigged/unfair/run by the Sith.

    That's quite a list. To misquote my Karl Marx, 'Labour leadership elections repeat themselves twice. The first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.'
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,840

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is interesting, on a careful check, to see that there's only really one big show produced by BBC Scotland at the moment, Mrs Brown's Boys. There's lots of other classics made by BBC Scotland (e.g. Balamory) but they all seem to have ceased production some years ago. Meanwhile, BBC Wales has about seven or eight, including Sherlock and Doctor Who (both of which are run by a Glaswegian, admittedly a much over-rated one) and Casualty.

    That does seem odd. Why can't BBC Scotland compete? I think there's probably a bit more to it than 'anti-Celtic bias'. Maybe it's got a dud management structure? If it's worse than that of the Beeb as a whole, however, then it must be quite something.

    BBC Cymru Wales does seem to be operating in a far more effective way than their counterparts in Scotland.

    Perhaps the focus on running BBC Alba (producing programmes in a language spoken by under 60.000 people (as of the 2011 census)) is taking too many resources from other areas.
    LOL, you are on the ball. They put in a miniscule amount to it ie a few million pounds , and it gets 600K viewers which is probably more than the BBC get lots of times.
    It doesn't get 600K viewers - it has a smaller number of people who watch a number of shows in any one given counting period.

    That is just playing with numbers to try to make the station sound as if it is viable.

    There are under 60,000 Gaelic speakers - the majority of whom live in the Outer Hebrides.

    That would be something of a miracle since their entire population is just over 27,000.
    Official figures from the 2011 census - 52% of Gaelic speakers live in the Outer Hebrides
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Matt has a male sense of humour today.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    ydoethur said:

    Back on topic, can anyone think of any mistake that Labour haven't yet made since May that they could still make? First they mess up the election procedure, then they shoot the leader too quickly, then they nominate some random nobody to replace him even though nobody wants him as leader, then they make him the favourite, then all the other candidates start squabbling among themselves over who is to blame for this, then they start randomly kicking people off the voting register in the middle of a McCarthyite witch-hunt for infiltrators, then they discover that one of their candidates has some associations so unsavoury that even Owen Jones criticises him for not checking their antecedents, and now they announce that they are going to put the numbers out so everyone can see exactly how the election was messed up, and start shouting about how it was rigged/unfair/run by the Sith.

    That's quite a list. To misquote my Karl Marx, 'Labour leadership elections repeat themselves twice. The first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.'

    It could be even better if Jezbollah wins with normal members, and the breakdown strengthens his position.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Roger said:


    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

    Tony Blair?
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Roger said:

    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

    The BBC is running with no notable difference and the NHS is still functioning, despite breaking all the barriers needed to 'save' it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    @MattW and @foxinsoxuk I fully realise that Birmingham is not in the East Midlands! I was just thinking that I believe it's the only major studio in the whole midlands - because I think I'm right in saying Nottingham is pretty small? So if there was any programme content, it would be from Birmingham. I just don't know how much there is. Coast, Doctors and the Afternoon Play are the only ones I can name off-hand, which (Coast apart) is hardly a stellar field.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    It wasn’t supposed to be like this. A decade ago, the weathermen promised – or threatened – a radically different kind of British summer in the years to come.

    Short periods of intense, tropical downpours, interspersed with spells of searing heat. This is what the climate models said was going to happen.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/11826318/Lets-move-our-summer-holidays-to-June-and-end-this-washout.html

    As Europe struggles with its worst migration crisis in more than half a century, all eyes are once again on Angela Merkel. The German Chancellor took a huge political gamble this week by tearing up the EU’s rulebook, while also demanding a new deal that would force Britain to accept hundreds of thousands of refugees.

    Faced with a human flood, Mrs Merkel has abandoned the Dublin Convention that requires asylum-seekers to be processed in their country of arrival. Berlin’s new policy will allow Syrian refugees to apply for asylum in Germany, rather than in their first port of call.

    Deciding to do such a thing without the approval of Brussels will surely encourage other EU countries to pursue their own migration policies, too. But this is the last thing Mrs Merkel wants. She and President Hollande of France have just called for a new, binding European agreement to share the asylum burden.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11826675/This-migration-crisis-could-test-the-European-project-to-destruction.html
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    OchEye said:

    Must be a big story about to break that the SNP don't want to talk about. Please, MalcolmG, can you tell us from deepest, darkest Berwick? Or must we wait to hear from the Phoney Rev. Whinging Frae Bath?

    JOHN Swinney has become the most senior minister to be drawn into the cronyism row over T in the Park, after it emerged he met the organisers at the request of a former SNP aide.

    The deputy first minister and finance secretary met DF Concerts' chief executive in his constituency office at the behest of a former SNP government adviser.

    Jennifer Dempsie, the former adviser to Alex Salmond who was working for DF Concerts as a short-term project manager, also attended the meeting In Blairgowrie on March 27.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13628535.John_Swinney_drawn_into_T_in_the_Park_cronyism_row/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    JEO said:

    Roger said:

    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

    the NHS is still functioning
    Didn't that close 5 years ago?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Financier, agree with your (implied) view on both those stories.

    The global warming enthusiasts have repeatedly gotten even short-medium term predictions wrong.

    And Germany's trying to extend its hegemony from merely the economic domain in the eurozone to domestic policy across the whole EU.
  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    so Scottish BBC subsamples is it?

    You're like children in the playground. Only worse.

    Away and boil yeir heids.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,465
    MikeL said:

    Of course it could be that the order of elimination for any one group of voters would be different to the actual order of elimination for the total electorate.



    So the whole thing could still end in total farce - with nobody knowing who would have won if it had been full members only.

    That's a nerd thing like "But we'd have won under STV with added members" with resonance zero - I defy you to explain it to one average voter on the doorstep.

    It depends if the remaining Blairite MPs feel like they have a place in a Corbynite Labour Party.

    When the situation was reversed in 1994-7, the hard left generally whinged but stuck with the Blairite project, as it was going to win. Blair also tried to mollify them - why else was the terminally stupid and hopeless Prescott made DPM and given his massive ministry?

    This is different. Despite what Nick says, I cannot see the Corbynites erecting a tent large enough to include the Blairites, without the latter undergoing a road to Damascus conversion even larger than Nickr's. Just look at the poison the left have been throwing at Kendall.

    I see no reason to believe that Cornbyn will have a Blair-like 'magic touch' that will lead to a win in 2020. That is what he needs to pull the party together, and even that might not be enough.
    Time will show. But to quibble over a historical point - I don't think anyone on the hard left will have felt that John Prescott was remotely left-wing. His importance as deputy was that he was a visible link to the party's traditions, which is something important to non-ideological people but not to left-wingers. Incidentally, he's much smarter than his image in terms of politics (he had a good instinct for what the party would accept, an important quality that Blair sometimes missed) - there was an element of deliberate buffoonery a la Boris/Trump.

    Appointing Clare Short and Robin Cook was more of a gesture to the left.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Is This a sign of things to come when /if JC stands up at PMQs?

    " Robert Mugabe has been heckled in the Zimbabwean Parliament by opposition MPs.

    The 91-year-old was giving his first state of the nation address in eight years, and opposition MPs took the opportunity to boo and heckle the President.

    The first boos came as he spoke about economic growth, and continued as he made the rest of his speech.

    Some MPs from Mugabe's own party, Zanu-PF, appeared to be asleep during the speech. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/11825719/Robert-Mugabe-heckled-in-Zimbabwe-Parliament.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    Financier said:

    It wasn’t supposed to be like this. A decade ago, the weathermen promised – or threatened – a radically different kind of British summer in the years to come.

    Short periods of intense, tropical downpours, interspersed with spells of searing heat. This is what the climate models said was going to happen.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/11826318/Lets-move-our-summer-holidays-to-June-and-end-this-washout.html

    As Europe struggles with its worst migration crisis in more than half a century, all eyes are once again on Angela Merkel. The German Chancellor took a huge political gamble this week by tearing up the EU’s rulebook, while also demanding a new deal that would force Britain to accept hundreds of thousands of refugees.

    Faced with a human flood, Mrs Merkel has abandoned the Dublin Convention that requires asylum-seekers to be processed in their country of arrival. Berlin’s new policy will allow Syrian refugees to apply for asylum in Germany, rather than in their first port of call.

    Deciding to do such a thing without the approval of Brussels will surely encourage other EU countries to pursue their own migration policies, too. But this is the last thing Mrs Merkel wants. She and President Hollande of France have just called for a new, binding European agreement to share the asylum burden.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11826675/This-migration-crisis-could-test-the-European-project-to-destruction.html

    Financier - can I just ask what the connection between those two is? Or are they meant to be unrelated stories? The only climate thing I can see in part 2 is the word 'flood' which is doubtless going to cause controversy with some random Labour journalist criticising it.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Roger said:

    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Did you feel better after that ? Please clean up before you move on! I think you will find the term Tory is mostly used in the Labour Party, its a special term that differentiates the electable members of the party from the comedy turns. Meanwhile amongst the general public it appears that 51% voted right wing, and 49% voted left wing, although that later number appears to be dropping if recent indications are anything to go by.

    You should also not forget, to use your favoured measure, that 6% more people didn't vote Labour, than didn't vote Tory, and pretty much two million more voters managed to prise their backsides off the sofa to vote for Dave than vote for Ed, which will seem glorious compare to the paltry few that will do so for Jez, who attracts activists in the thousand, but repels marginal voters in their millions.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869
    OT Question:

    Can anyone point me to a list of violent / property crimes carried out by suffragettes?

    Thinking mainly of arson etc.

    eg is there any truth in claims of churches being burnt down?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,467
    Roger said:

    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

    What about a Labour Party that is obsessed about phone hacking at Murdoch's rags, yet were - and still are - silent about the same crimes at the Mirror Group?

    And whilst we're talking about the BBC, how do you think the Saville report's going to turn out for them?

    As usual, you're too thick- or too emotionally stunted - to realise where the real opprobrium should go, and instead just descend into the mire of your comfort zone. "Ooooh, Tory's are EEVVVILLLL!"

    Pathetic.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Roger said:

    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

    Calm down, dear, you're getting hysterical.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    Financier said:

    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75

    Thats $125 in SNP dollars.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is interesting, on a careful check, to see that there's only really one big show produced by BBC Scotland at the moment, Mrs Brown's Boys. There's lots of other classics made by BBC Scotland (e.g. Balamory) but they all seem to have ceased production some years ago. Meanwhile, BBC Wales has about seven or eight, including Sherlock and Doctor Who (both of which are run by a Glaswegian, admittedly a much over-rated one) and Casualty.

    That does seem odd. Why can't BBC Scotland compete? I think there's probably a bit more to it than 'anti-Celtic bias'. Maybe it's got a dud management structure? If it's worse than that of the Beeb as a whole, however, then it must be quite something.

    BBC Cymru Wales does seem to be operating in a far more effective way than their counterparts in Scotland.

    Perhaps the focus on running BBC Alba (producing programmes in a language spoken by under 60.000 people (as of the 2011 census)) is taking too many resources from other areas.
    LOL, you are on the ball. They put in a miniscule amount to it ie a few million pounds , and it gets 600K viewers which is probably more than the BBC get lots of times.
    It doesn't get 600K viewers - it has a smaller number of people who watch a number of shows in any one given counting period.

    That is just playing with numbers to try to make the station sound as if it is viable.

    There are under 60,000 Gaelic speakers - the majority of whom live in the Outer Hebrides.

    That would be something of a miracle since their entire population is just over 27,000.
    Official figures from the 2011 census - 52% of Gaelic speakers live in the Outer Hebrides
    Oh dear.

    'The main stronghold of the language continues to be the Outer Hebrides (Na h-Eileanan Siar), where the overall proportion of speakers is at 52.2%.'

    I hope you don't read stats for a living.

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,867
    Disraeli said:

    Roger said:

    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

    Calm down, dear, you're getting hysterical.
    Tory (and Whig come to that) started life as insults (or was it descriptions?):
    " the Tories (also an insult, derived from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe, modern Irish tóraí — outlaw, robber, from the Irish word tóir, meaning 'pursuit', since outlaws were "pursued men"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tories_(British_political_party)
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    ydoethur said:

    Financier said:

    It wasn’t supposed to be like this. A decade ago, the weathermen promised – or threatened – a radically different kind of British summer in the years to come.

    Short periods of intense, tropical downpours, interspersed with spells of searing heat. This is what the climate models said was going to happen.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/11826318/Lets-move-our-summer-holidays-to-June-and-end-this-washout.html

    As Europe struggles with its worst migration crisis in more than half a century, all eyes are once again on Angela Merkel. The German Chancellor took a huge political gamble this week by tearing up the EU’s rulebook, while also demanding a new deal that would force Britain to accept hundreds of thousands of refugees.

    Faced with a human flood, Mrs Merkel has abandoned the Dublin Convention that requires asylum-seekers to be processed in their country of arrival. Berlin’s new policy will allow Syrian refugees to apply for asylum in Germany, rather than in their first port of call.

    Deciding to do such a thing without the approval of Brussels will surely encourage other EU countries to pursue their own migration policies, too. But this is the last thing Mrs Merkel wants. She and President Hollande of France have just called for a new, binding European agreement to share the asylum burden.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11826675/This-migration-crisis-could-test-the-European-project-to-destruction.html

    Financier - can I just ask what the connection between those two is? Or are they meant to be unrelated stories? The only climate thing I can see in part 2 is the word 'flood' which is doubtless going to cause controversy with some random Labour journalist criticising it.
    Both are trends against the 'official' norm
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    edited August 2015
    MattW said:

    OT Question:

    Can anyone point me to a list of violent / property crimes carried out by suffragettes?

    Thinking mainly of arson etc.

    eg is there any truth in claims of churches being burnt down?

    It is suggested that they were responsible for the arson at Wargrave Church in Reading, although as far as I know the case was never proven one way or another. Crimes included putting burning rags into post boxes to set the mail on fire, and sending grass seed to an MP known to have a very bad grass allergy (sorry, can't remember his name). There was also all that business with the horse at the 1912/13 (not sure which) Derby. They also attempted to bomb the Bank of England and Oxsted railway station, but I don't think either bomb went off.

    EDIT - in terms of a list, I think this would be your best bet:

    http://www.johndclare.net/Women1_SuffragetteActions_Rosen.htm
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited August 2015
    Roger said:

    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

    That raised an interesting difference in approach between Labour and Tory BBC destroying baby esters.

    One say the BBC is good.

    The other say it is due for change. One is the Conservative reactionary response and one is progressive. Just because something was good there is no automatic right to continue to be good. In a progressing world with rapid technological changes and increasing expectations it is right to question the existing model and change it to one that suits the future.

    This aplies to BBC and NHS. Both have developed from a historical structure that isn't suited to our world.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869
    ydoethur said:

    @MattW and @foxinsoxuk I fully realise that Birmingham is not in the East Midlands! I was just thinking that I believe it's the only major studio in the whole midlands - because I think I'm right in saying Nottingham is pretty small? So if there was any programme content, it would be from Birmingham. I just don't know how much there is. Coast, Doctors and the Afternoon Play are the only ones I can name off-hand,
    which (Coast apart) is hardly a stellar field.

    There's a pocket studio.

    "The Nottingham headquarters were built especially after the region was created and were state of the art when constructed in 1999, containing the newsroom for East Midlands Today, a small studio for use by regional news, and accommodation for BBC Radio Nottingham. It is located on London Road, Nottingham.[2]"

    The Congregatio de Propaganda Fide East Midlands Division is watching...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75

    Thats $125 in SNP dollars.
    SNP Dollars - Salmond National Petro Dollars ??

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    MattW said:

    OT Question:

    Can anyone point me to a list of violent / property crimes carried out by suffragettes?

    Thinking mainly of arson etc.

    eg is there any truth in claims of churches being burnt down?

    Wyndham Lewis (in Blast 1) asked them not to destroy works of art but I don't know if that is because they had already destroyed some or was just a general "mind how you go"...
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015
    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75

    Thats $125 in SNP dollars.
    At this rate, Trump can afford to buy up the rest of the country for golf course development.

    MalcolmG and Eck can caddy for him. Imagine their cheery little faces, ruddy cheeks and glowing smiles as they carry his clubs in the rain, cute tartan bonnets blowing about in the wind.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I very much doubt Malcolm G even lives in Scotland, sounds like an ex pat with memories of old, probably lost his scots accent and lives in Manchester. He certainly hasn't lost the Scottish temperament.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    MikeL said:

    Of course it could be that the order of elimination for any one group of voters would be different to the actual order of elimination for the total electorate.



    So the whole thing could still end in total farce - with nobody knowing who would have won if it had been full members only.

    That's a nerd thing like "But we'd have won under STV with added members" with resonance zero - I defy you to explain it to one average voter on the doorstep.

    It depends if the remaining Blairite MPs feel like they have a place in a Corbynite Labour Party.

    When the situation was reversed in 1994-7, the hard left generally whinged but stuck with the Blairite project, as it was going to win. Blair also tried to mollify them - why else was the terminally stupid and hopeless Prescott made DPM and given his massive ministry?

    This is different. Despite what Nick says, I cannot see the Corbynites erecting a tent large enough to include the Blairites, without the latter undergoing a road to Damascus conversion even larger than Nickr's. Just look at the poison the left have been throwing at Kendall.

    I see no reason to believe that Cornbyn will have a Blair-like 'magic touch' that will lead to a win in 2020. That is what he needs to pull the party together, and even that might not be enough.
    Time will show. But to quibble over a historical point - I don't think anyone on the hard left will have felt that John Prescott was remotely left-wing. His importance as deputy was that he was a visible link to the party's traditions, which is something important to non-ideological people but not to left-wingers. Incidentally, he's much smarter than his image in terms of politics (he had a good instinct for what the party would accept, an important quality that Blair sometimes missed) - there was an element of deliberate buffoonery a la Boris/Trump.

    Appointing Clare Short and Robin Cook was more of a gesture to the left.


    Michael Meacher was also from the left (and I believe was the only member of the Blair Government with governmental experience albeit as a junior minister). He has been in parliament for 45 years now, and was a reasonably competent minister. A good candidate for Shadow Chancellor?

    As to the election: what is done is done. The MPs will have to get behind JC and Watson, objecting now to the rules of the race is too late.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503
    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75

    Thats $125 in SNP dollars.
    Or $102 in Westminster dollars.

    'Prices: In our central scenario oil prices rise from $102 a
    barrel in 2015 to $160 dollars a barrel in 2040.'

    http://tinyurl.com/o8qkyyy
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    ydoethur said:

    sending grass seed to an MP known to have a very bad grass allergy (sorry, can't remember his name).

    Tracked him down - it was Charles Hobhouse, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.

    WP profile is here, but doesn't mention the incident:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Charles_Hobhouse,_4th_Baronet
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Good morning all. The BBC has an income of a tad over £5 billion. That doesn't seem particularly emasculated to me.

    Lefties shouldn't keep shrieking "The NHS! The BBC! Evil Tories!", it's long since lost any impact, and just makes Labour look like a cargo cult.

    If you want to kick the shit out of this government, call them on their idiotic promises and woeful under-performance on border control.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574

    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75

    Thats $125 in SNP dollars.
    Or $102 in Westminster dollars.

    'Prices: In our central scenario oil prices rise from $102 a
    barrel in 2015 to $160 dollars a barrel in 2040.'

    http://tinyurl.com/o8qkyyy
    Remind me what the SNP's prediction was? Still, a drop in the ocean relative to the rest of the UKs finances.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Disraeli said:

    Roger said:

    CR

    "At least you admit it."

    ...and proud. The Tories are a cult whose values are so anaethma to most of the rest of their fellow citizens that it's now a commonly used term of abuse is to call someone 'A TORY'.

    Odd that a mildly right wing party with a reasonably amiable leadler should attract such opprobium don't you think?.

    Who else would emasculate the BBC respected and revered around the world in order to promote the interests of Murdoch?

    Calm down, dear, you're getting hysterical.
    Tory (and Whig come to that) started life as insults (or was it descriptions?):
    " the Tories (also an insult, derived from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe, modern Irish tóraí — outlaw, robber, from the Irish word tóir, meaning 'pursuit', since outlaws were "pursued men"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tories_(British_political_party)
    Wig on PB is a term of immense affection that derives from the status of Mike Smithson as the Dear Leader of PB.

    Members of his inner circle or "The Toupees" as they are known gather monthly to exchange offerings of hair clippings and rededicate themselves to the Greater Worldwide Follicular Fellowship.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75

    Thats $125 in SNP dollars.
    Or $102 in Westminster dollars.

    'Prices: In our central scenario oil prices rise from $102 a
    barrel in 2015 to $160 dollars a barrel in 2040.'

    http://tinyurl.com/o8qkyyy
    Remind me what the SNP's prediction was? Still, a drop in the ocean relative to the rest of the UKs finances.
    In 2014, the Sweaty Socks were predicting $110 per barrel, and that a separate Scotland would reap the rewards of a “second oil boom”.

    That's another funny to file away with the fabled 'arc of prosperity' and 'the Darien scheme's a sure fire winner'.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11316377/SNPs-independence-oil-forecasts-wrong-by-155-million-a-day.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440

    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75

    Thats $125 in SNP dollars.
    Or $102 in Westminster dollars.

    'Prices: In our central scenario oil prices rise from $102 a
    barrel in 2015 to $160 dollars a barrel in 2040.'

    http://tinyurl.com/o8qkyyy
    There is nothing to stop that scenario taking place. Long term oil prices should rise still, might have run out by 2070 or so.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869
    edited August 2015
    > then they start randomly kicking people off the voting register in the middle of a McCarthyite witch-hunt for infiltrators

    Hmmmm. On party loyalty via Guido. Are they going to expel *all* of them.

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/185542633056239616

    Enough mischief making. Time for work.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    FTSE at 6105, Brent Crude at $44.75

    Thats $125 in SNP dollars.
    Or $102 in Westminster dollars.

    'Prices: In our central scenario oil prices rise from $102 a
    barrel in 2015 to $160 dollars a barrel in 2040.'

    http://tinyurl.com/o8qkyyy
    There is nothing to stop that scenario taking place. Long term oil prices should rise still, might have run out by 2070 or so.
    Yes, but typically budgets have to be balanced on the short term (glares at Osborne)
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    OT Question:

    Can anyone point me to a list of violent / property crimes carried out by suffragettes?

    Thinking mainly of arson etc.

    eg is there any truth in claims of churches being burnt down?

    It is suggested that they were responsible for the arson at Wargrave Church in Reading, although as far as I know the case was never proven one way or another. Crimes included putting burning rags into post boxes to set the mail on fire, and sending grass seed to an MP known to have a very bad grass allergy (sorry, can't remember his name). There was also all that business with the horse at the 1912/13 (not sure which) Derby. They also attempted to bomb the Bank of England and Oxsted railway station, but I don't think either bomb went off.

    EDIT - in terms of a list, I think this would be your best bet:

    http://www.johndclare.net/Women1_SuffragetteActions_Rosen.htm
    There was a nasty incident at the Bermondsey by-election.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermondsey_by-election,_1909#Result
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503
    Just for the nostalgia junkies.

    GOsborneGenius ‏@GOsborneGenius 9 mins9 minutes ago
    @tnewtondunn Great for the country, spectacularly bad for Cameron
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627


    Michael Meacher was also from the left (and I believe was the only member of the Blair Government with governmental experience albeit as a junior minister). He has been in parliament for 45 years now, and was a reasonably competent minister. A good candidate for Shadow Chancellor?

    As to the election: what is done is done. The MPs will have to get behind JC and Watson, objecting now to the rules of the race is too late.

    Beckett (PUS at the DES) and Cunningham (USS Energy) also served in junior roles under Callaghan.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    edited August 2015
    Scotland's long term problem with oil isn't so much the price, it's the fact that the North Sea wells are simply going to dry up way before 2040 !

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4f0442e0-bcd2-11e4-a917-00144feab7de.html#axzz3k0GSYjok
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    EU net immigration: 183,000
    Non-EU net immigration: 143,000

    I have no idea whether Syrian and Eritreans turning up from France count as EU or non-EU.
  • I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    RodCrosby said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    OT Question:

    Can anyone point me to a list of violent / property crimes carried out by suffragettes?

    Thinking mainly of arson etc.

    eg is there any truth in claims of churches being burnt down?

    It is suggested that they were responsible for the arson at Wargrave Church in Reading, although as far as I know the case was never proven one way or another. Crimes included putting burning rags into post boxes to set the mail on fire, and sending grass seed to an MP known to have a very bad grass allergy (sorry, can't remember his name). There was also all that business with the horse at the 1912/13 (not sure which) Derby. They also attempted to bomb the Bank of England and Oxsted railway station, but I don't think either bomb went off.

    EDIT - in terms of a list, I think this would be your best bet:

    http://www.johndclare.net/Women1_SuffragetteActions_Rosen.htm
    There was a nasty incident at the Bermondsey by-election.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermondsey_by-election,_1909#Result
    Thank you. Hadn't come across that one before. As you say, very nasty. (Very timely as well, I'm just redoing my SoWs including the one on suffragettes - can bring that one in!)

    Interesting question at A-level: 'Women might have got the vote before 1914 had it not been for the violence of the Suffragettes.' Discuss. The answer is 'probably no,' because the Liberal hierarchy opposed it and the Tories didn't think it a high priority - but you could still write a decent essay in answer to that.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is interesting, on a careful check, to see that there's only really one big show produced by BBC Scotland at the moment, Mrs Brown's Boys. There's lots of other classics made by BBC Scotland (e.g. Balamory) but they all seem to have ceased production some years ago. Meanwhile, BBC Wales has about seven or eight, including Sherlock and Doctor Who (both of which are run by a Glaswegian, admittedly a much over-rated one) and Casualty.

    That does seem odd. Why can't BBC Scotland compete? I think there's probably a bit more to it than 'anti-Celtic bias'. Maybe it's got a dud management structure? If it's worse than that of the Beeb as a whole, however, then it must be quite something.

    BBC Cymru Wales does seem to be operating in a far more effective way than their counterparts in Scotland.

    Perhaps the focus on running BBC Alba (producing programmes in a language spoken by under 60.000 people (as of the 2011 census)) is taking too many resources from other areas.
    LOL, you are on the ball. They put in a miniscule amount to it ie a few million pounds , and it gets 600K viewers which is probably more than the BBC get lots of times.
    It doesn't get 600K viewers - it has a smaller number of people who watch a number of shows in any one given counting period.

    That is just playing with numbers to try to make the station sound as if it is viable.

    There are under 60,000 Gaelic speakers - the majority of whom live in the Outer Hebrides.

    That would be something of a miracle since their entire population is just over 27,000.
    Official figures from the 2011 census - 52% of Gaelic speakers live in the Outer Hebrides
    Oh dear.

    'The main stronghold of the language continues to be the Outer Hebrides (Na h-Eileanan Siar), where the overall proportion of speakers is at 52.2%.'

    I hope you don't read stats for a living.

    From the 2011 Census
    Gaelic language

    Just over one per cent (1.1 per cent or 58,000 people) of the population aged 3 and over in Scotland were able to speak Gaelic, a slight fall from 1.2 per cent (59,000) in 2001.
    There were decreases in the proportion of people able to speak Gaelic in all age groups apart from those aged under 20 years which showed a 0.1 percentage point increase.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited August 2015
    JEO said:

    EU net immigration: 183,000
    Non-EU net immigration: 143,000

    I have no idea whether Syrian and Eritreans turning up from France count as EU or non-EU.

    They would be under asylum seekers. These were 25, 771 up 10% on the year. The biggest numbers are from the original EU15. Spaniards, Greeks, Portuguese if my department is typical.

    More detailed figures here:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/august-2015/stb-msqr-august-2015.html#tab-Immigration-to-the-UK
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,677
    edited August 2015
    OT: It seems a very class-ridden approach to me - the clear implication is 'Oh, they were only voted in by the proles in the cheap seats.'. Not very Labour, but then their principles only ever did apply to other people.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited August 2015

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    I think it would be more accurate to say we are failing to enact our policies because our hands are bound by the European Union. We really need to get a grip on this. Even a bumbling UKIP will be able to have a field day if we don't get our house in order. On the top concern of British voters, we're going backwards. And at quite a scale too: net migration is up almost 50% on last year.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    spectacularly bad for Cameron

    Will it be as bad for Cameron as him drinking a pint in a pub?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    JEO said:

    EU net immigration: 183,000
    Non-EU net immigration: 143,000

    I have no idea whether Syrian and Eritreans turning up from France count as EU or non-EU.

    Rather than all the quota business, @rcs' solution might be a good one. Let the market decide - a flat fee of £50,000 for a non EU immigrant to the treasury. Companies would pay it if they needed someone of real talent who could add to the country, would help the C2DE natives as well.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015
    Scott_P said:

    spectacularly bad for Cameron

    Will it be as bad for Cameron as him drinking a pint in a pub?
    Or losing a child in a pasty at the fish counter in Morrisons. And something to do with a crying horse at a funeral.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    33 tens of thousands
  • JEO said:

    EU net immigration: 183,000
    Non-EU net immigration: 143,000

    I have no idea whether Syrian and Eritreans turning up from France count as EU or non-EU.

    Wow. And this is just the immigration that they know about.

    Does it have the break down of who is leaving? Are they immigrants returning home or natives Brits emigrating?
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 983
    How do they know how many people emigrated?

    according to the ONS: "These statistics were analysed by the Migration Statistics Unit at ONS. Long-Term International Migration estimates are based largely on data from the International Passenger Survey (IPS)"

    They ask people at airports "Would you answer some questions?", "Are you leaving for more than a year?" Many people answering don't know how long they are leaving for and the survey is likely to massively underestimate emigration both of Brits and other nationalities returning home. If you were a Bulgarian would you answer a questionnaire at the airport?

    Until there is a better way of measuring movements out of the country, these statistics are at best misleading and possibly dangerous.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It all reminds me of Citizen Camembert.
    MattW said:

    RobD said:

    First!

    I see Mr Corbyn is now Leader Corbyn. Not too far from Dear Leader Corbyn (or Comrade Corbyn for that matter) :D

    I think Citizen Corbyn is better.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    Of course Labour started the voter importation programme by encouraging certain ethnic groups to come here and vote for them. Unfortunately for Labour, its wars put off many of the new voters.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    ydoethur said:

    RodCrosby said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    OT Question:

    Can anyone point me to a list of violent / property crimes carried out by suffragettes?

    Thinking mainly of arson etc.

    eg is there any truth in claims of churches being burnt down?

    It is suggested that they were responsible for the arson at Wargrave Church in Reading, although as far as I know the case was never proven one way or another. Crimes included putting burning rags into post boxes to set the mail on fire, and sending grass seed to an MP known to have a very bad grass allergy (sorry, can't remember his name). There was also all that business with the horse at the 1912/13 (not sure which) Derby. They also attempted to bomb the Bank of England and Oxsted railway station, but I don't think either bomb went off.

    EDIT - in terms of a list, I think this would be your best bet:

    http://www.johndclare.net/Women1_SuffragetteActions_Rosen.htm
    There was a nasty incident at the Bermondsey by-election.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermondsey_by-election,_1909#Result
    Thank you. Hadn't come across that one before. As you say, very nasty. (Very timely as well, I'm just redoing my SoWs including the one on suffragettes - can bring that one in!).
    Although the initial reports in The Times may have overblown it a tad.
    http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/4169

    Still, a stupid and reckless act.
  • JEO said:

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    I think it would be more accurate to say we are failing to enact our policies because our hands are bound by the European Union. We really need to get a grip on this. Even a bumbling UKIP will be able to have a field day if we don't get our house in order. On the top concern of British voters, we're going backwards. And at quite a scale too: net migration is up almost 50% on last year.

    If Labour was importing voters when immigration was high under Blair and Brown, then surely the Tories are too. Around half of our new intake does not come from the EU.

  • perdix said:

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    Of course Labour started the voter importation programme by encouraging certain ethnic groups to come here and vote for them. Unfortunately for Labour, its wars put off many of the new voters.

    And the Tories are clearly carrying it on - encouraged, no doubt, by the increase in support the party is receiving from ethnic minorities.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015

    JEO said:

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    I think it would be more accurate to say we are failing to enact our policies because our hands are bound by the European Union. We really need to get a grip on this. Even a bumbling UKIP will be able to have a field day if we don't get our house in order. On the top concern of British voters, we're going backwards. And at quite a scale too: net migration is up almost 50% on last year.

    If Labour was importing voters when immigration was high under Blair and Brown, then surely the Tories are too. Around half of our new intake does not come from the EU.

    I wonder how many of the current intake are family members joining those voters that Labour imported.
  • 636,000 (+ X,000 unknown). I for one am feeling extremely enriched this morning.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is interesting, on a careful check, to see that there's only really one big show produced by BBC Scotland at the moment, Mrs Brown's Boys. There's lots of other classics made by BBC Scotland (e.g. Balamory) but they all seem to have ceased production some years ago. Meanwhile, BBC Wales has about seven or eight, including Sherlock and Doctor Who (both of which are run by a Glaswegian, admittedly a much over-rated one) and Casualty.

    That does seem odd. Why can't BBC Scotland compete? I think there's probably a bit more to it than 'anti-Celtic bias'. Maybe it's got a dud management structure? If it's worse than that of the Beeb as a whole, however, then it must be quite something.

    BBC Cymru Wales does seem to be operating in a far more effective way than their counterparts in Scotland.

    Perhaps the focus on running BBC Alba (producing programmes in a language spoken by under 60.000 people (as of the 2011 census)) is taking too many resources from other areas.
    LOL, you are on the ball. They put in a miniscule amount to it ie a few million pounds , and it gets 600K viewers which is probably more than the BBC get lots of times.
    It doesn't get 600K viewers - it has a smaller number of people who watch a number of shows in any one given counting period.

    That is just playing with numbers to try to make the station sound as if it is viable.

    There are under 60,000 Gaelic speakers - the majority of whom live in the Outer Hebrides.

    That would be something of a miracle since their entire population is just over 27,000.
    Official figures from the 2011 census - 52% of Gaelic speakers live in the Outer Hebrides
    C'mon, cut him a bit of slack. We all know that they like a bit of magic dust with their data up there. It's like salt in porridge.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Oliver_PB said:

    I am under the perception that Supplementary Benefit (and later Income Support) had very little in the way of obligations and sanctions, which have steadily got increasingly tougher since the 90s. Is that accurate?

    There is some increase in the extent of sanctions, but the application of sanctions was very lax and deemed a low level function and target by the powers-that-were at the time.

    Thatcher had schemes like Community Action, YTS etc, while Major had a workfare scheme that saw Jobcentre registers plummet. New Deal had these things but dressed in flowery language.

    Lone Parents and the Disabled first started being put through work-related activity under New Labour.

    For many years lone parents with children aged under 16 were required to do absolutely nothing in return for benefits.

    The core difference between Tory administrations and Labour ones has been in the presentation and language used.

    Tories - you hear terms like 'boot camp'
    Labour - 'New Deal'

    In practice, basically the same.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    edited August 2015
    RodCrosby said:

    ydoethur said:

    RodCrosby said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    OT Question:

    Can anyone point me to a list of violent / property crimes carried out by suffragettes?

    Thinking mainly of arson etc.

    eg is there any truth in claims of churches being burnt down?

    It is suggested that they were responsible for the arson at Wargrave Church in Reading, although as far as I know the case was never proven one way or another. Crimes included putting burning rags into post boxes to set the mail on fire, and sending grass seed to an MP known to have a very bad grass allergy (sorry, can't remember his name). There was also all that business with the horse at the 1912/13 (not sure which) Derby. They also attempted to bomb the Bank of England and Oxsted railway station, but I don't think either bomb went off.

    EDIT - in terms of a list, I think this would be your best bet:

    http://www.johndclare.net/Women1_SuffragetteActions_Rosen.htm
    There was a nasty incident at the Bermondsey by-election.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermondsey_by-election,_1909#Result
    Thank you. Hadn't come across that one before. As you say, very nasty. (Very timely as well, I'm just redoing my SoWs including the one on suffragettes - can bring that one in!).
    Although the initial reports in The Times may have overblown it a tad.
    http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/4169

    Still, a stupid and reckless act.
    Better and better Mr Crosby - a source comparison task is coming on here, since I can get access to the original Times report too!

    Thank you very much, it is appreciated. As you say, a very stupid and reckless act: furthermore, not perhaps quite calculated to persuade the chauvinists that women were to be trusted with the democratic process...
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Scott_P said:

    OchEye said:

    Must be a big story about to break that the SNP don't want to talk about. Please, MalcolmG, can you tell us from deepest, darkest Berwick? Or must we wait to hear from the Phoney Rev. Whinging Frae Bath?

    JOHN Swinney has become the most senior minister to be drawn into the cronyism row over T in the Park, after it emerged he met the organisers at the request of a former SNP aide.

    The deputy first minister and finance secretary met DF Concerts' chief executive in his constituency office at the behest of a former SNP government adviser.

    Jennifer Dempsie, the former adviser to Alex Salmond who was working for DF Concerts as a short-term project manager, also attended the meeting In Blairgowrie on March 27.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13628535.John_Swinney_drawn_into_T_in_the_Park_cronyism_row/

    Hmm! Yes, moving TitP was always a bit dodgy, and is getting dodgier by the day. Can't say Ms. Dempsie is not well connected in the SNP though, isn't she the 'Bidie In of a certain Angus Robertson, Leader of the SNP at Westminster?

    Apart from questions on Policing in Kirkcaldy (And Sir Stephen House), A&E waiting times increasing, changing the Council Tax, Roads and crumbling infrastructures, Prestwick airport (Mama Sturgeons constituency), Aberdeen (if the oil price stays low, the SNP will be wiped out there next year). Most of these are known about, but for MalcolmG and others to be let loose so early in the day normally indicates that there is volcano about to explode.
  • watford30 said:

    JEO said:

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    I think it would be more accurate to say we are failing to enact our policies because our hands are bound by the European Union. We really need to get a grip on this. Even a bumbling UKIP will be able to have a field day if we don't get our house in order. On the top concern of British voters, we're going backwards. And at quite a scale too: net migration is up almost 50% on last year.

    If Labour was importing voters when immigration was high under Blair and Brown, then surely the Tories are too. Around half of our new intake does not come from the EU.

    I wonder how many of the current intake are family members joining those voters that Labour imported.

    Clearly, the Tories do not have a problem with such imports if that is what is happening.

    Whichever way you spin it, this is now a Tory responsibility. Labour has not had any control over immigration policy for over five years.

    What, in fact, we may all be finding out is that the issue of immigration is actually a lot more complicated and nuanced than we may previously have thought when we threw around accusations of voter importation and hatred of the white working class.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    :lol:
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    BBC Scotland's output seems slightly larger than the assertion by PB's Top Turnip of "ZERO"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland



    We have the fake pie muncher joining the fray. Next you will be telling me you are Scottish.
    One hopes you read the dates of when those programmes were made, most are from around the time of your fake age.
    23 ongoing productions. Last time I checked, more than zero ;)
    Kindly do not confuse "The Ayrshire Turnip" with facts, much less figures as in Nat-World "ZERO" = 23 whenever they say it is.

    Maybe 0 = 23 is the kind of maths needed to balance the books in the new $40/barrel economy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    edited August 2015
    OchEye said:

    Aberdeen (if the oil price stays low, the SNP will be wiped out there next year).

    Even mony, the SNP aren't getting 'wiped out' in Aberdeen...

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Icarus said:

    How do they know how many people emigrated?

    according to the ONS: "These statistics were analysed by the Migration Statistics Unit at ONS. Long-Term International Migration estimates are based largely on data from the International Passenger Survey (IPS)"

    They ask people at airports "Would you answer some questions?", "Are you leaving for more than a year?" Many people answering don't know how long they are leaving for and the survey is likely to massively underestimate emigration both of Brits and other nationalities returning home. If you were a Bulgarian would you answer a questionnaire at the airport?

    Until there is a better way of measuring movements out of the country, these statistics are at best misleading and possibly dangerous.

    Cobblers, the same error will occur each year, your "Bulgarians" wont feel more inclined to answer from one year to the next, so even if the number is wrong, and I think we know that since it doesn't include the thousands climbing over the fence at Calais, it shows the trend and the percentage increase. Its dangerous for lefties who believe in open borders, but the public have never believed in that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869
    Pulpstar said:

    Scotland's long term problem with oil isn't so much the price, it's the fact that the North Sea wells are simply going to dry up way before 2040 !

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4f0442e0-bcd2-11e4-a917-00144feab7de.html#axzz3k0GSYjok

    That doesn't matter.

    IT CAN STILL BE SOLD AT $240 A BARREL. $240 !!!!!

    (Innit)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    watford30 said:

    JEO said:

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    I think it would be more accurate to say we are failing to enact our policies because our hands are bound by the European Union. We really need to get a grip on this. Even a bumbling UKIP will be able to have a field day if we don't get our house in order. On the top concern of British voters, we're going backwards. And at quite a scale too: net migration is up almost 50% on last year.

    If Labour was importing voters when immigration was high under Blair and Brown, then surely the Tories are too. Around half of our new intake does not come from the EU.

    I wonder how many of the current intake are family members joining those voters that Labour imported.

    Clearly, the Tories do not have a problem with such imports if that is what is happening.

    Whichever way you spin it, this is now a Tory responsibility. Labour has not had any control over immigration policy for over five years.

    What, in fact, we may all be finding out is that the issue of immigration is actually a lot more complicated and nuanced than we may previously have thought when we threw around accusations of voter importation and hatred of the white working class.

    Or that there is very little difference between Camerons Tories and Blairs Labour
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Observer, agree it's the responsibility/fault of the current government. It's not irrelevant to refer to Labour's foolish refusal for transitional restrictions when the EU expanded, however.

    Despite the increasingly daft situation with Farage (if he stays too much longer UKIP could collapse when he finally toddles off), UKIP stand to make hay yet again on immigration.

    The wider picture provides some cover for Cameron, but it shouldn't. The problem's been going on for years, and he lacks either the will or the competence to resolve it despite promises he would.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is interesting, on a careful check, to see that there's only really one big show produced by BBC Scotland at the moment, Mrs Brown's Boys. There's lots of other classics made by BBC Scotland (e.g. Balamory) but they all seem to have ceased production some years ago. Meanwhile, BBC Wales has about seven or eight, including Sherlock and Doctor Who (both of which are run by a Glaswegian, admittedly a much over-rated one) and Casualty.

    That does seem odd. Why can't BBC Scotland compete? I think there's probably a bit more to it than 'anti-Celtic bias'. Maybe it's got a dud management structure? If it's worse than that of the Beeb as a whole, however, then it must be quite something.

    BBC Cymru Wales does seem to be operating in a far more effective way than their counterparts in Scotland.

    Perhaps the focus on running BBC Alba (producing programmes in a language spoken by under 60.000 people (as of the 2011 census)) is taking too many resources from other areas.
    LOL, you are on the ball. They put in a miniscule amount to it ie a few million pounds , and it gets 600K viewers which is probably more than the BBC get lots of times.
    It doesn't get 600K viewers - it has a smaller number of people who watch a number of shows in any one given counting period.

    That is just playing with numbers to try to make the station sound as if it is viable.

    There are under 60,000 Gaelic speakers - the majority of whom live in the Outer Hebrides.

    That would be something of a miracle since their entire population is just over 27,000.
    Official figures from the 2011 census - 52% of Gaelic speakers live in the Outer Hebrides
    C'mon, cut him a bit of slack. We all know that they like a bit of magic dust with their data up there. It's like salt in porridge.

    It's always entertaining when some numbnuts jumps into a conversation without bothering to read the conclusion.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    636,000 (+ X,000 unknown). I for one am feeling extremely enriched this morning.

    Me too. There is an excellent new Slovak diner in town. Good beer and great service.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    isam said:

    watford30 said:

    JEO said:

    I see the Tories are continuing to import more voters.

    I think it would be more accurate to say we are failing to enact our policies because our hands are bound by the European Union. We really need to get a grip on this. Even a bumbling UKIP will be able to have a field day if we don't get our house in order. On the top concern of British voters, we're going backwards. And at quite a scale too: net migration is up almost 50% on last year.

    If Labour was importing voters when immigration was high under Blair and Brown, then surely the Tories are too. Around half of our new intake does not come from the EU.

    I wonder how many of the current intake are family members joining those voters that Labour imported.

    Clearly, the Tories do not have a problem with such imports if that is what is happening.

    Whichever way you spin it, this is now a Tory responsibility. Labour has not had any control over immigration policy for over five years.

    What, in fact, we may all be finding out is that the issue of immigration is actually a lot more complicated and nuanced than we may previously have thought when we threw around accusations of voter importation and hatred of the white working class.

    Or that there is very little difference between Camerons Tories and Blairs Labour
    I tried a cigarette paper, it didn't fit :(
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Nigel Farage is pointing out that 192,000 Romanians and Bulgarians registered for National Insurance numbers in last year, yet ONS is claiming only 53,000 came here.

    What explanations are there for this?
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