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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. Eagles, the real problem was locating the shield generator on Endor.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    South Liverpool looking pretty as they turn out for Cilla...
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    JEO said:
    Not round us they're not.
  • Plato said:

    How very Stasi.

    Scott_P said:

    @RebeccaaDay: Friend drew my attention to this: posted on Oxford Univ. labour club FB page. #LabourPurge #BigBrotherIsWatchingYou http://t.co/WsTmE4hUtC

    Grass your friends, for fun and profit...

    How can they pull votes from the Electoral reform society?


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    I've just realised the problem: the Labour Party is senile. After all, it is 115 year old. In its late nineties it tried to grasp the modern world, learnt about t'Internet, and followed modern fashions, but its dotage has led it to remember only its early life, which it wants back.

    Whilst the Conservatives, at 181 years old, is obviously a revenant that lives by feeding on the bodies of other political philosophies, changing and wearing their clothes as fashions change. Perhaps there was something really of the night about Howard ...

    The Lib Dems, at 27, are a pimply youth who has just been sacked from his first job after university (media studies, obviously), for sucking up to much to the boss and violating the company dress code too often, despite having done a great deal of good work.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @HarryShotton: Even former Labour Party candidates are being disqualified from voting in the leadership election. #LabourPurge https://t.co/PeEaLjIwGz
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    This is classic Twitter, a few hundred are being rejected, but you'd think it was most of the £3 supporters from the overreaction.
  • The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,990
    Scott_P said:

    @RebeccaaDay: Friend drew my attention to this: posted on Oxford Univ. labour club FB page. #LabourPurge #BigBrotherIsWatchingYou http://t.co/WsTmE4hUtC

    Grass your friends, for fun and profit...

    Everybody expects the Corbynquisition....
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    There seems to be something very, very dodgy about Labour excluding people from the electorate after it already knows which way they are voting.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419

    Plato said:

    How very Stasi.

    Scott_P said:

    @RebeccaaDay: Friend drew my attention to this: posted on Oxford Univ. labour club FB page. #LabourPurge #BigBrotherIsWatchingYou http://t.co/WsTmE4hUtC

    Grass your friends, for fun and profit...

    How can they pull votes from the Electoral reform society?


    I've changed my Facebook picture to this - reckon it'll increase my chances of passing the ducking stool test ?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    A coded message of support for Jeremy "The Beard" Corbyn.
    This election gets even more hilarious. Where is the cap?
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    JEO said:

    There seems to be something very, very dodgy about Labour excluding people from the electorate after it already knows which way they are voting.

    They won't know, all votes are processed by the Electoral Commission aren't they?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    JEO said:

    There seems to be something very, very dodgy about Labour excluding people from the electorate after it already knows which way they are voting.

    Utterly chilling to think Harriet and her ilk want to be in charge of the UK. CHILLING.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Plato said:

    This is trending #2 behind #GCSE https://twitter.com/hashtag/LabourPurge?src=tren

    An interesting twitter account

    https://twitter.com/LabourPurge

    As I read it Corbyn is saying to MPs, 'if you don't back me the grass roots will rise up'

    Now that really is hubris. Downhill now for Corbyn.
    However this does confirm the point I have been making for some time. The £3entryists are not voting for leader of the Labour Party and Corbyn is not standing for leader of the Labour Party. He is standing for and they are voting for the Corbyn Party.
    The Labour Party as was does not exist any more.

    That would only make sense if (a) the £3 group was a large proportion of the selectorate, which it isn't; (b) the polling indicated a vast disparity between the preferences of the £3 group, the union members, and the party members - which it doesn't.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I see that the purge is being live-tweeted. Darkness at noon.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,840

    The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.

    Tactically, Pearl Harbour was a magnificent success (carriers aside, but the Japanese couldn't have known they were out and besides, *something* was always certain to be at sea). Strategically, it wasn't the best idea. Though it was a better idea than Hitler declaring war on the US just because he fancied it.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    That's excellent. I had a giggle at that. Now we just need to see Yvette with half a beard, to show that it isn't a binary choice, and that though there are strong arguments against beards, many reasonable people are also in favour.

    I liked JJ's "Labour senility" post too.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,840
    JEO said:

    There seems to be something very, very dodgy about Labour excluding people from the electorate after it already knows which way they are voting.

    So if Corbyn wins, it's all down to entryists; if he loses, it's because he was robbed of legitimate votes. Can Labour make any more of a mess?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Plato said:

    This is trending #2 behind #GCSE https://twitter.com/hashtag/LabourPurge?src=tren

    An interesting twitter account

    https://twitter.com/LabourPurge

    As I read it Corbyn is saying to MPs, 'if you don't back me the grass roots will rise up'

    Now that really is hubris. Downhill now for Corbyn.
    However this does confirm the point I have been making for some time. The £3entryists are not voting for leader of the Labour Party and Corbyn is not standing for leader of the Labour Party. He is standing for and they are voting for the Corbyn Party.
    The Labour Party as was does not exist any more.

    If you read the actual quotes from JC in the Indy article, he didn't really say anything like that
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    JEO said:



    Ken Clarke would have destroyed the Tory party. Not only was he out of tune with most of the membership, he is obnoxious in his disagreement and openly contemptuous of those with different philosophies. Blair would have probably used the opportunity to overrule Brown and take us into the Eurozone without a referendum.

    My experience as a member of the time was that a lot of ordinary members, including Eurospectics, wanted Clarke as leader on the basis that he was a 'big hitter' and 'man of the people' who would likely claw back some popular support and eat into the Labour majority at the next (2001) election, after which we could have another leadership election.

    After 1997, nobody seriously thought Clarke (or indeed Hague) would be Prime Minister. It was about making the most pragmatic and effective choice.

    Which of course we didn't.

    Not only did we miss out on the effectiveness of Clarke as a bruiser getting us back on the road to recovery, but we also saw Hague peak too soon, and missed out on the benefits of having him become leader in, say, 2003.
    Electing Hague was a ghastly mistake, both for the man himself and the Party. He should have been left to mature for another ten years or so. However, I think you are wrong about Clarke.

    He was and, as far as I can see remained, a hopeless Euro-fanatic who thought that joining the Euro would be a spiffing idea. As such he was beyond the pale for an awful lot of the Party, so much so that he could not be elected leader and if, by some chance, he had been he would have split the Conservatives, probably irrevocably.

    Additionally, whilst Clarke was undoubtedly a political bruiser of the first water (who was it who said of him, "He can't see a fight on the other side of the road without wanting to cross over and join in"?), he was also a very lazy minister who seldom if ever could be persuaded to actually master his brief. He was notorious for his rousing support of Maastricht but when cornered was forced to admit he had never actually read the treaty, and his botched reforms of the police whilst Home Secretary were again caused by his refusal to do do detail down to the level necessary.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    USA: poll - Biden may do better than Clinton in swing states:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/swing-state-poll-shows-joe-bidens-appeal-121543.html
  • The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.

    Tactically, Pearl Harbour was a magnificent success (carriers aside, but the Japanese couldn't have known they were out and besides, *something* was always certain to be at sea). Strategically, it wasn't the best idea. Though it was a better idea than Hitler declaring war on the US just because he fancied it.
    What was Hitler thinking? Was he thinking?

    It made FDR's job easier to sell the Germany First approach to the American public.
  • Voters are sceptical that a No vote in the coming EU referendum would lead to an unconditional departure from the EU – or that David Cameron would support an exit if he doesn’t secure reforms

    http://bit.ly/1Nnjglo
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    JEO said:

    There seems to be something very, very dodgy about Labour excluding people from the electorate after it already knows which way they are voting.

    So if Corbyn wins, it's all down to entryists; if he loses, it's because he was robbed of legitimate votes. Can Labour make any more of a mess?
    Only way it can get worse now is if the winning margin for any candidate is a handful of votes.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That seems a little excessive!
    Scott_P said:

    @HarryShotton: Even former Labour Party candidates are being disqualified from voting in the leadership election. #LabourPurge https://t.co/PeEaLjIwGz

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Labour is doing a fair impression of the cow at Milliways, the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

    'You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?' whispered Trillian to Ford.

    'Me?' said Ford, with a glazed look in his eyes, 'I don't mean anything.'

    'That's absolutely horrible,' exclaimed Arthur, 'the most revolting thing I've ever heard.'

    'What's the problem Earthman?' said Zaphod, now transfering his attention to the animal's enormous rump.

    'I just don't want to eat an animal that's standing there inviting me to,' said Arthur, 'It's heartless.'

    'Better than eating an animal that doesn't want to be eaten,' said Zaphod.

    'That's not the point,' Arthur protested. Then he thought about it for a moment. 'Alright,' he said, 'maybe it is the point. I don't care, I'm not going to think about it now. I'll just ... er ... I
    think I'll just have a green salad,' he muttered.

    'May I urge you to consider my liver?' asked the animal, 'it must be very rich and tender by now, I've been force-feeding myself for months.'

    'A green salad,' said Arthur emphatically.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    :+1:

    That's excellent. I had a giggle at that. Now we just need to see Yvette with half a beard, to show that it isn't a binary choice, and that though there are strong arguments against beards, many reasonable people are also in favour.

    I liked JJ's "Labour senility" post too.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    @Ydoethur
    'The best former polytechnic is probably Hertfordshire - next best would be Oxford Brookes (I would actually say, in history at least, that it's a better university than its more famous rival now, although that will doubtless astonish some people on here). Otherwise, they tend to be very good at specialised subjects, but a bit rubbish beyond that - for example, if you want to do a teacher training course or a higher degree in teaching, Gloucestershire and Cumbria are fine, but don't do a liberal arts course there. Coventry is great for the sciences, not the humanities'

    Lanchester Poly seemed good back in the 70s -as did Portsmouth Poly.
    May I ask your views as a teacher on the BEd degrees? I have a bother who obtained a 1st class honours on such a course from a Teacher Training College in the mid-1990s , but I have tended to view them as vocational qualifications - mainly for primary school teachers - rather than academic degrees per se. It seems to be a 4year replacement for the previous 3year Teaching Certificate course. Any thoughts?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.

    Tactically, Pearl Harbour was a magnificent success (carriers aside, but the Japanese couldn't have known they were out and besides, *something* was always certain to be at sea). Strategically, it wasn't the best idea. Though it was a better idea than Hitler declaring war on the US just because he fancied it.
    "Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." Sun Tsu.
  • JEO said:



    Ken Clarke would have destroyed the Tory party. Not only was he out of tune with most of the membership, he is obnoxious in his disagreement and openly contemptuous of those with different philosophies. Blair would have probably used the opportunity to overrule Brown and take us into the Eurozone without a referendum.

    My experience as a member of the time was that a lot of ordinary members, including Eurospectics, wanted Clarke as leader on the basis that he was a 'big hitter' and 'man of the people' who would likely claw back some popular support and eat into the Labour majority at the next (2001) election, after which we could have another leadership election.

    After 1997, nobody seriously thought Clarke (or indeed Hague) would be Prime Minister. It was about making the most pragmatic and effective choice.

    Which of course we didn't.

    Not only did we miss out on the effectiveness of Clarke as a bruiser getting us back on the road to recovery, but we also saw Hague peak too soon, and missed out on the benefits of having him become leader in, say, 2003.
    Electing Hague was a ghastly mistake, both for the man himself and the Party. He should have been left to mature for another ten years or so. However, I think you are wrong about Clarke.

    He was and, as far as I can see remained, a hopeless Euro-fanatic who thought that joining the Euro would be a spiffing idea. As such he was beyond the pale for an awful lot of the Party, so much so that he could not be elected leader and if, by some chance, he had been he would have split the Conservatives, probably irrevocably.

    Additionally, whilst Clarke was undoubtedly a political bruiser of the first water (who was it who said of him, "He can't see a fight on the other side of the road without wanting to cross over and join in"?), he was also a very lazy minister who seldom if ever could be persuaded to actually master his brief. He was notorious for his rousing support of Maastricht but when cornered was forced to admit he had never actually read the treaty, and his botched reforms of the police whilst Home Secretary were again caused by his refusal to do do detail down to the level necessary.
    Yet he was Thatcher's go to Minister when she needed a difficult problem sorting out.

    So lazy was he, he became, according to the voters, the top rated post war Chancellor. Just imagine if he had applied himself
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    There seems to be something very, very dodgy about Labour excluding people from the electorate after it already knows which way they are voting.

    So if Corbyn wins, it's all down to entryists; if he loses, it's because he was robbed of legitimate votes. Can Labour make any more of a mess?
    I actually think this is one of the few issues where the Corbynistas are on the right side of the argument. The Blairites can't complain votes from supporters of other parties is "entryism", when that was the entire point of having the £3 supporters. They advocated for an open primary like system as they believed they would get more centrist swing voters in from people that vote Lib Dem and Tory. Now their favoured system is working against them, they're crying foul.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,552
    edited August 2015

    Mr. Herdson/Mr. Eagles, most evil emperor is an interesting role to consider [if we're sticking with the Romans].

    Flavius Phocas has got to be a contender. Maximinus Thrax?

    Hard to think of many that were evil, because [to me] that implies both cruelty and competence, and most of the cruellest emperors were also short-lived morons (yes, Antoninus Caracalla, I'm looking at you, you fratricidal [and possibly patricidal] idiot).

    Phocas was hardly competent, though. At Maurice's death, the Eastern Empire had reached its greatest extent, and most of it was overrun by the Persians during his reign.

    Nero was both evil, and incompetent, but managed to remain in power for quite some time.

    Justinian II probably ranks as both evil and competent. Also, Domitian.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,990
    justin124 said:

    @Ydoethur
    'The best former polytechnic is probably Hertfordshire - next best would be Oxford Brookes (I would actually say, in history at least, that it's a better university than its more famous rival now, although that will doubtless astonish some people on here). Otherwise, they tend to be very good at specialised subjects, but a bit rubbish beyond that - for example, if you want to do a teacher training course or a higher degree in teaching, Gloucestershire and Cumbria are fine, but don't do a liberal arts course there. Coventry is great for the sciences, not the humanities'

    Lanchester Poly seemed good back in the 70s -as did Portsmouth Poly.
    May I ask your views as a teacher on the BEd degrees? I have a bother who obtained a 1st class honours on such a course from a Teacher Training College in the mid-1990s , but I have tended to view them as vocational qualifications - mainly for primary school teachers - rather than academic degrees per se. It seems to be a 4year replacement for the previous 3year Teaching Certificate course. Any thoughts?

    In the late 70's, Trent Poly had a far, far better law library than Durham Uni....
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    This is a worrying sign of the direction of travel:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/599473/EU-Britain-five-years

    BRITISH government votes failed to block a single European Union measure during David Cameron's first five years in office, new research showed yesterday.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.

    Tactically, Pearl Harbour was a magnificent success (carriers aside, but the Japanese couldn't have known they were out and besides, *something* was always certain to be at sea). Strategically, it wasn't the best idea. Though it was a better idea than Hitler declaring war on the US just because he fancied it.
    What was Hitler thinking? Was he thinking?

    It made FDR's job easier to sell the Germany First approach to the American public.
    That FDR did manage to sell the Germany First policy I have always regarded as one of his finest achievements and the fact that he saw it was the correct thing to do one of factors that marked him out as one of the great presidents.
  • The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.

    Tactically, Pearl Harbour was a magnificent success (carriers aside, but the Japanese couldn't have known they were out and besides, *something* was always certain to be at sea). Strategically, it wasn't the best idea. Though it was a better idea than Hitler declaring war on the US just because he fancied it.
    What was Hitler thinking? Was he thinking?

    It made FDR's job easier to sell the Germany First approach to the American public.
    That FDR did manage to sell the Germany First policy I have always regarded as one of his finest achievements and the fact that he saw it was the correct thing to do one of factors that marked him out as one of the great presidents.
    He was one of the greats.

    Conrad Black once said of FDR he was the most duplicitous bastard to ever occupy the White House.

    For the early part of World War II he publicly was neutral, but in private, he was doing his utmost to help out the UK/Churchill.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    JEO said:

    Miliband actually looks pretty good with a beard.

    He looks great. Even the nose gives him (the right type of) character.

    Whatever must he be thinking, though? His legacy with a straight line to Jezza and the destruction of Lab.

    EdB as leader and EdM as something else, W&P perhaps, represent the best leadership team Lab will never have and boy do they need something right now.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    The interesting thing about the #LabourPurge is it seems to show that the powers that be must think they still have a chance of defeating Corbyn. Otherwise they should leave all these entryists in there and use them to discredit Corbyn afterwards.

    But what if they have this purge, and Corbyn still gets 45% first preferences and wins easily?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Loving some of the #Labourpurge tweets, especially those from accounts with Green party twibbons.

    But this is my favourite so far:

    Alan Rielly ‏@A1AN_J_R · 1m1 minute ago
    The #LabourPurge begins on the day of Cilla Black's funeral, which it will dominate the news. Just a coincidence.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,552

    The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.

    Tactically, Pearl Harbour was a magnificent success (carriers aside, but the Japanese couldn't have known they were out and besides, *something* was always certain to be at sea). Strategically, it wasn't the best idea. Though it was a better idea than Hitler declaring war on the US just because he fancied it.
    What was Hitler thinking? Was he thinking?

    It made FDR's job easier to sell the Germany First approach to the American public.
    Hitler was starting to lose his grip at that point. From that point on, his misjudgements began to outnumber his good judgements.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    JEO said:

    There seems to be something very, very dodgy about Labour excluding people from the electorate after it already knows which way they are voting.

    So if Corbyn wins, it's all down to entryists; if he loses, it's because he was robbed of legitimate votes. Can Labour make any more of a mess?
    The mess will get worse. After the result is announced, a load of people will pop up saying 'Haha, I'm a Tory/Green/UKIP councillor and I got a vote, but look at all those long-standing Labour supporters who got purged'.
  • This is the most exciting August in UK politics since 1931
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    This is the most exciting August in UK politics since 1931

    I was anticipating a bit of de-politicised time. I've already had to apologise to my wife and probably ought to be apologising to my employer too...
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    Yet he was Thatcher's go to Minister when she needed a difficult problem sorting out.

    So lazy was he, he became, according to the voters, the top rated post war Chancellor. Just imagine if he had applied himself

    Clarke was Thatcher's goto minister when she wanted a problem sorted? Really? On what of the multi-verses are we talking about here? Certainly not the one we are living in. He only had four jobs under Thatcher and only two of those were of the first rank (Health starting in 1988 and Education starting in 1990)

    As to his sloth, well that is a matter of public record (see Maastricht referenced above for the most egregious example). However, beware the public record is written in a special ink so that it cannot be seen by people wearing rose-tinted spectacles.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015
    Snowflake's on Radio 4 WATO now.

    (Born in Scotland, childhood in Hampshire, a degree from Oxford, and yet she talks 'Northern'.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,962
    edited August 2015

    justin124 said:

    @Ydoethur
    'The best former polytechnic is probably Hertfordshire - next best would be Oxford Brookes (I would actually say, in history at least, that it's a better university than its more famous rival now, although that will doubtless astonish some people on here). Otherwise, they tend to be very good at specialised subjects, but a bit rubbish beyond that - for example, if you want to do a teacher training course or a higher degree in teaching, Gloucestershire and Cumbria are fine, but don't do a liberal arts course there. Coventry is great for the sciences, not the humanities'

    Lanchester Poly seemed good back in the 70s -as did Portsmouth Poly.
    May I ask your views as a teacher on the BEd degrees? I have a bother who obtained a 1st class honours on such a course from a Teacher Training College in the mid-1990s , but I have tended to view them as vocational qualifications - mainly for primary school teachers - rather than academic degrees per se. It seems to be a 4year replacement for the previous 3year Teaching Certificate course. Any thoughts?

    In the late 70's, Trent Poly had a far, far better law library than Durham Uni....
    Trent Poly these days charges sky high rents to students. Very little at under £100-110 / week.

    They built lots of new Rolls Royce halls and spent the next several years offering large cashbacks to get students to live in them :-).

    Good courses, though.
  • This is the most exciting August in UK politics since 1931

    I was anticipating a bit of de-politicised time. I've already had to apologise to my wife and probably ought to be apologising to my employer too...
    I'm just glad I'm single these days.

    The fact Mike's taking a holiday when Labour announce their new leader is just inviting trouble
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The #LabourPurge is throwing up some interesting cases. Should the man who devised this flowchart be excluded? He has been.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBcWpE1WQAAiI9n.jpg
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    If Labour loses second place in 2020 I think they might never get it back again. That's how serious things are for the party.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,985
    edited August 2015
    Though I've now done a 360 degree turn and think Corbyn will be a disaster for my political tastes-probably worse even than Cameron-If I was a Tory I wouldn't be jumping for joy.

    Make no mistake there is a massive appetite for someone who seems different from all sides of the political spectrum and i wouldn't put it past him to find one or two policies with huge popular appeal.

    Imagine him leading the 'EU OUT' campaign with Cameron and the SNP on the other side and his side wins. The fall out would be completely unpredictable and for the likes of me the worst possible result


  • Yet he was Thatcher's go to Minister when she needed a difficult problem sorting out.

    So lazy was he, he became, according to the voters, the top rated post war Chancellor. Just imagine if he had applied himself

    Clarke was Thatcher's goto minister when she wanted a problem sorted? Really? On what of the multi-verses are we talking about here? Certainly not the one we are living in. He only had four jobs under Thatcher and only two of those were of the first rank (Health starting in 1988 and Education starting in 1990)

    As to his sloth, well that is a matter of public record (see Maastricht referenced above for the most egregious example). However, beware the public record is written in a special ink so that it cannot be seen by people wearing rose-tinted spectacles.
    Like Margaret Thatcher at the Scott Inquiry, he said a government minister cannot be expected to read every document/report/briefing/treaty etc they receive, there just isn't the time.

    Are we calling Thatcher a sloth too?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited August 2015
    Roger said:

    Imagine him leading the 'EU OUT' campaign with Cameron and the SNP on the other side and his side wins. The fall out would be completely unpredictable and for the likes of me the worst possible result

    Indeed, I bet you don't fancy being forced to repatriate yourself to a 95% top rate, Roger.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,683
    I always admired Clarke for taking on the white collar unions - the BMA and the like. The fight against restrictive practices is a fundamentally Thatcherite one, and for that he deserves full credit.

    He also made the completely accurate observation that some rapes are worse than others.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    edited August 2015
    In order to pass I've gone and "liked" Marxism and Lenin on my Facebook.

    I assume this and a huge picture of a red flag will be sufficient to pass the LABOUR party test ?!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Roger said:

    Though I've now done a 360 degree turn and think Corbyn will be a disaster for my political tastes-probably worse even than Cameron-If I was a Tory I wouldn't be jumping for joy.

    Make no mistake there is a massive appetite for someone who seems different from all sides of the political spectrum and i wouldn't put it past him to find one or two policies with huge popular appeal.

    Imagine him leading the 'EU OUT' campaign with Cameron and the SNP on the other side and his side wins. The fall out would be completely unpredictable and for the likes of me the worst possible result

    I suspect you mean 180 degrees.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    Yet he was Thatcher's go to Minister when she needed a difficult problem sorting out.

    So lazy was he, he became, according to the voters, the top rated post war Chancellor. Just imagine if he had applied himself

    Clarke was Thatcher's goto minister when she wanted a problem sorted? Really? On what of the multi-verses are we talking about here? Certainly not the one we are living in. He only had four jobs under Thatcher and only two of those were of the first rank (Health starting in 1988 and Education starting in 1990)

    As to his sloth, well that is a matter of public record (see Maastricht referenced above for the most egregious example). However, beware the public record is written in a special ink so that it cannot be seen by people wearing rose-tinted spectacles.
    Like Margaret Thatcher at the Scott Inquiry, he said a government minister cannot be expected to read every document/report/briefing/treaty etc they receive, there just isn't the time.

    Are we calling Thatcher a sloth too?
    A government minister who tells us that something is a wonderful idea when he actually has no idea what he is talking about is not a good government minister. A government minister who initiates a programme of reform whilst refusing to read the briefing papers that were written to enable him to come to a sensible judgement about that reform is not a good minister. At least in my book they aren't. You are a lawyer so you may disagree.

    Anyway, Herself is now out for the afternoon and I have promised myself the luxury of a few uninterrupted hours in fourteenth century London. So I am off to my time machine.

    Take care and God bless.



  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Quite. I wonder which will be the most egregious?!

    JEO said:

    There seems to be something very, very dodgy about Labour excluding people from the electorate after it already knows which way they are voting.

    So if Corbyn wins, it's all down to entryists; if he loses, it's because he was robbed of legitimate votes. Can Labour make any more of a mess?
    The mess will get worse. After the result is announced, a load of people will pop up saying 'Haha, I'm a Tory/Green/UKIP councillor and I got a vote, but look at all those long-standing Labour supporters who got purged'.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Roger said:

    Though I've now done a 360 degree turn and think Corbyn will be a disaster for my political tastes-probably worse even than Cameron-If I was a Tory I wouldn't be jumping for joy.

    Make no mistake there is a massive appetite for someone who seems different from all sides of the political spectrum and i wouldn't put it past him to find one or two policies with huge popular appeal.

    Imagine him leading the 'EU OUT' campaign with Cameron and the SNP on the other side and his side wins. The fall out would be completely unpredictable and for the likes of me the worst possible result

    360 degrees? So you're facing the same direction you started in?

    I do find it interesting that many left-wingers seem to put EU membership ahead of economic views these days.
  • Pulpstar said:

    In order to pass I've gone and "liked" Marxism and Lenin on my Facebook.

    I assume this and a huge picture of a red flag will be sufficient to pass the LABOUR party test ?!

    I admire your dedication to the cause.

  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    watford30 said:

    Snowflake's on Radio 4 WATO now.

    (Born in Scotland, childhood in Hampshire, a degree from Oxford, and yet she talks 'Northern'.)

    Who is snowflake?
  • Pulpstar said:

    In order to pass I've gone and "liked" Marxism and Lenin on my Facebook.

    I assume this and a huge picture of a red flag will be sufficient to pass the LABOUR party test ?!

    There's too much blue in that picture.

    That much blue means your a Tory
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    JC has drifted out a little bit on Betfair today: currently 1.44-1.45 compared with around 1.37-1.38 at lunchtime yesterday.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Smithson,

    "He also made the completely accurate observation that some rapes are worse than others."

    I remember the fuss and thought it was bonkers. Checking with my wife, she was horrified that anyone would make a fuss about anything so obviously correct.

    As always the outrage bus was filled with the usual oddballs.
  • New Thread

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,990
    edited August 2015
    antifrank said:

    Roger said:

    Though I've now done a 360 degree turn and think Corbyn will be a disaster for my political tastes-probably worse even than Cameron-If I was a Tory I wouldn't be jumping for joy.

    Make no mistake there is a massive appetite for someone who seems different from all sides of the political spectrum and i wouldn't put it past him to find one or two policies with huge popular appeal.

    Imagine him leading the 'EU OUT' campaign with Cameron and the SNP on the other side and his side wins. The fall out would be completely unpredictable and for the likes of me the worst possible result

    I suspect you mean 180 degrees.
    This is Roger we are talking about...
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    The #LabourPurge is only going to backfire - it only has value if it will change the outcome, in which case there will be complaints no matter who wins.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,728
    Sean_F said:

    The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.

    Tactically, Pearl Harbour was a magnificent success (carriers aside, but the Japanese couldn't have known they were out and besides, *something* was always certain to be at sea). Strategically, it wasn't the best idea. Though it was a better idea than Hitler declaring war on the US just because he fancied it.
    What was Hitler thinking? Was he thinking?

    It made FDR's job easier to sell the Germany First approach to the American public.
    Hitler was starting to lose his grip at that point. From that point on, his misjudgements began to outnumber his good judgements.
    Hitler was a stopped clock military genius.

    Because he was so aggressive with his military direction in 1940, and it worked, it convinced him he was a genius and smarter than the traditional Prussian military staff.

    In fact, the allies were just woefully unprepared, underarmed and suffering from poor morale, and he got lucky. Same applies for first few months of Barbarossa.

    What's always astonished me is how it took the Germans until 1944 to approach anything like a total mobilisation of their war economy. And most of their army was foot/horse based until the very end.

    Thank goodness.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Belt, braces and sickle there.
    Pulpstar said:

    In order to pass I've gone and "liked" Marxism and Lenin on my Facebook.

    I assume this and a huge picture of a red flag will be sufficient to pass the LABOUR party test ?!

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    JEO said:

    watford30 said:

    Snowflake's on Radio 4 WATO now.

    (Born in Scotland, childhood in Hampshire, a degree from Oxford, and yet she talks 'Northern'.)

    Who is snowflake?
    Cooper.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Pong said:

    Well this is going to stop Corbyn.

    @rupertmurdoch: Corbyn increasingly likely Labor winner. Seems only candidate who believes anything, right or wrong.

    So the Great Satan to the lefties, Rupert Murdoch, has just endorsed Corbyn, after a fashion.

    The psychology of Rupert murdoch is fascinating - he seems to have an instinctive respect for any underdog who challenges the established order.

    Classic second child.
    I truly like how he occasionally seems to troll people on twitter, knowing how comments from him will be taken.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @DearPB

    ' I'm seeking PB's advice on a genuine ethical question.'

    Vote for Corbyn as he will do most damage to the Labour party that is clearly too stupid to organize and vet an election, they deserve it.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    JK Galbraith did some great analysis on the military economy in Nazi Germany, and found it severely lacking.

    BTW- I'm just coming to the end of a superb novel- Ostland by David Thomas. Apart from being outstanding brilliant, it gets a close as I think possible to the mindset of a middle ranking Nazi official committing the most atrocious acts. It makes you consider what would you do in similar circumstances- an uncomfortable question indeed.

    Sean_F said:

    The original version was

    There are those who say by electing Corbyn, Labour are committing the greatest strategic and tactical blunder since the Empire of Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War.

    But then I wrote a bit about will Labour face an electoral Hirsohima and Nagasaki?

    Then realised that was in bad taste.

    Tactically, Pearl Harbour was a magnificent success (carriers aside, but the Japanese couldn't have known they were out and besides, *something* was always certain to be at sea). Strategically, it wasn't the best idea. Though it was a better idea than Hitler declaring war on the US just because he fancied it.
    What was Hitler thinking? Was he thinking?

    It made FDR's job easier to sell the Germany First approach to the American public.
    Hitler was starting to lose his grip at that point. From that point on, his misjudgements began to outnumber his good judgements.
    Hitler was a stopped clock military genius.

    Because he was so aggressive with his military direction in 1940, and it worked, it convinced him he was a genius and smarter than the traditional Prussian military staff.

    In fact, the allies were just woefully unprepared, underarmed and suffering from poor morale, and he got lucky. Same applies for first few months of Barbarossa.

    What's always astonished me is how it took the Germans until 1944 to approach anything like a total mobilisation of their war economy. And most of their army was foot/horse based until the very end.

    Thank goodness.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    CD13 said:

    Mr Smithson,

    "He also made the completely accurate observation that some rapes are worse than others."

    I remember the fuss and thought it was bonkers. Checking with my wife, she was horrified that anyone would make a fuss about anything so obviously correct.

    As always the outrage bus was filled with the usual oddballs.

    The problem was that he mis-spoke, he said "date-rape" when he meant "statutory-rape".
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