I find it hard to believe there are any likely Lab > Con switchers, but are there even one or two?
With the Carswell precedent that you trigger a by-election if you defect, an added complication is that most of the likely defectors are in very Tory-resistant seats. Umunna, Danczuk, Tristram Hunt and Kendall would have no chance of holding their seats as Tories. John Woodcock (referenced in the last thread header) would have a chance though.
I don't for one minute think that just because Carswell and Reckless did it, that resigning and forcing a by-election is the way everyone has to go point forward.
A Labour Party thatis gorging on its own innards is going to pause and say "but you have to fight a by-election now" to any defector?
They'll just say "good riddance, Tory!!" and return to the feast.
Tories according to Corbynites: Gordon Brown, Polly Toynbee, Dawn Butler.
I have seen comments on the Guardian's website accusing Corbyn of being a Tory.
Heavens above - who could possibly regard Corbyn as a Tory? ?
If you define 'Tory' as 'bad', then it's quite easy.
Though I've fallen in love with the splinter groups of the Left (the right really lets us all down on that score), especially since seeing this a month or so ago.
I take back my earlier comment to @SouthamObserver - compared to the absolute drivel I read in that leaflet, voting for Corbyn looks positively sensible.
Of course, there is a real meaning for the word 'Tory' - an Irish outlaw. So I suppose, in theory at least, it could be applied to the IRA, and by extension to a man who has had dealings with them (after all, it's often applied to Thatcher)! However, my understanding is that normally you have to steal cattle as well to qualify. So if there's any evidence that Corbyn refused to condemn any ruminant rustling by the IRA, maybe we're getting warm.
Similarly if anyone comments on having seen Cameron running around Western Scotland with a large herd of beasts looking for a supply of corn, I suppose he might reasonably be called a Whig.
I find it hard to believe there are any likely Lab > Con switchers, but are there even one or two?
With the Carswell precedent that you trigger a by-election if you defect, an added complication is that most of the likely defectors are in very Tory-resistant seats. Umunna, Danczuk, Tristram Hunt and Kendall would have no chance of holding their seats as Tories. John Woodcock (referenced in the last thread header) would have a chance though.
I don't for one minute think that just because Carswell and Reckless did it, that resigning and forcing a by-election is the way everyone has to go point forward.
A Labour Party thatis gorging on its own innards is going to pause and say "but you have to fight a by-election now" to any defector?
They'll just say "good riddance, Tory!!" and return to the feast.
My golden rule with eating animals is that any creature that actively seems that it wants to stay alive, avoid being butchered, would rather run away, is fearful of imminent death is better left to live.
Tories according to Corbynites: Gordon Brown, Polly Toynbee, Dawn Butler.
I have seen comments on the Guardian's website accusing Corbyn of being a Tory.
Heavens above - who could possibly regard Corbyn as a Tory? ?
If you define 'Tory' as 'bad', then it's quite easy.
Though I've fallen in love with the splinter groups of the Left (the right really lets us all down on that score), especially since seeing this a month or so ago.
To paraphrase Lord Grey from 1914 "the lights are going out all across the land, I fear we will not see them re-lit in my lifetime."
So he died before 11/11/1918?
There's always been a controversy about whether he said that, and if so, what he meant. It has sometimes been suggested that he foresaw the 'Second Thirty Years War' (1914-45) in which case he did die before it was concluded. This seems unlikely however - in the 1920s, most people thought the war, although it had been long and brutal, was over, and a new era of peace, prosperity and universal sanity had dawned (we all make mistakes). It has also been suggested that it was made up. To be honest, I find the second plausible - Grey wasn't generally given to portentous statements so far as I can see, although unfortunately very little of his actual correspondence survives.
Of course, a rather sadder reason why he may have been right is that his own eyesight was rapidly failing by 1914, and in the 1920s he was pretty much blind.
My golden rule with eating animals is that any creature that actively seems that it wants to stay alive, avoid being butchered, would rather run away, is fearful of imminent death is better left to live.
To paraphrase Lord Grey from 1914 "the lights are going out all across the land, I fear we will not see them re-lit in my lifetime."
So he died before 11/11/1918?
There's always been a controversy about whether he said that, and if so, what he meant. It has sometimes been suggested that he foresaw the 'Second Thirty Years War' (1914-45) in which case he did die before it was concluded. This seems unlikely however - in the 1920s, most people thought the war, although it had been long and brutal, was over, and a new era of peace, prosperity and universal sanity had dawned (we all make mistakes). It has also been suggested that it was made up. To be honest, I find the second plausible - Grey wasn't generally given to portentous statements so far as I can see, although unfortunately very little of his actual correspondence survives.
Of course, a rather sadder reason why he may have been right is that his own eyesight was rapidly failing by 1914, and in the 1920s he was pretty much blind.
I find it hard to believe there are any likely Lab > Con switchers, but are there even one or two?
With the Carswell precedent that you trigger a by-election if you defect, an added complication is that most of the likely defectors are in very Tory-resistant seats. Umunna, Danczuk, Tristram Hunt and Kendall would have no chance of holding their seats as Tories. John Woodcock (referenced in the last thread header) would have a chance though.
I don't for one minute think that just because Carswell and Reckless did it, that resigning and forcing a by-election is the way everyone has to go point forward.
A Labour Party thatis gorging on its own innards is going to pause and say "but you have to fight a by-election now" to any defector?
They'll just say "good riddance, Tory!!" and return to the feast.
They don't have to. They'd just be less honourable than Kippers if they don't.
So close to the election it's pretty hard to see that the Tories would want to take any Labour defectors. The election was after all surely about substance rather than shade.
It'd be a very poor world if we followed the example of Shaun Woodward. A man who by his by his own actions defines himself as a liar.
Moreover, Trotsky actually predicted the defeat of the USSR in WWII. He would have been devastated to witness the crowning victory of socialism over fascism, but was saved that final humiliation thanks to his assassination by one of his own followers in Mexico in 1941.
Leaving aside the fact that Trotsky died in 1940 (we all make mistakes) do they actually not realise that the assassin was in the employ of the NKVD and only pretending to be an admirer of Trotsky in a bid to get close to him?
Do they think that lots of Trotskyist convicted murderers from Spain were welcomed to the Eastern bloc with multiple decorations (Order of Lenin, Hero of the Soviet Union etc) on their release? That being said, as I recall he later became a radio maintenance worker and lived rather quietly - by the 1960s, of course, the purges were something people were not anxious to remember.
I'm beginning to see where some of the problems that have bedevilled recent threads come from. I haven't read such total nonsense since the last time I forced myself to plough through the work of fringe conspiracy theorist René Salm as part of tangential research on Biblical Nazareth.
My S K Tremayne antennae are detecting a shiver in etherspace. A few prior Corbynista on Twitter are now saying they have doubts... Like tyson on here.
Will they come to their senses and save the party, just in time?
If that happens it will be entirely down to the right wing press not being able to keep their mouths shut for a couple more weeks.
My S K Tremayne antennae are detecting a shiver in etherspace. A few prior Corbynista on Twitter are now saying they have doubts... Like tyson on here.
Will they come to their senses and save the party, just in time?
If that happens it will be entirely down to the right wing press not being able to keep their mouths shut for a couple more weeks.
And he's taking no shit from foreign-backed witch-hunters... 'I asked him: did he accept – not necessarily apologise for, but accept – that his hinterland has meant unsavoury bedfellows? “There’s no denying that some people I have had to sit down with, both Israeli and Palestinian and from many other areas, have held personal views which are anathema to me, abhorrent to me. Does that mean we shouldn’t have sat down with them? It certainly doesn’t.”'
For the 100th time, the problem isn't that he's sitting down with these people. It's that he considers them his friends. The man is a sympathiser with theocratic terrorists. If Labour really want to be the party for the nastier Islamist types, then it can go ahead and put Corbyn as leader.
It is quite clear, in context, that Corbyn was talking about guests from Hezbollah who attended a meeting held at the Houses of Parliament, no less.
I find it hard to balance the two viewpoints, If you read the comments on the BBC web site, and the Guardian, then Corbyn is the "New Messiah", and they should know they have followed a few. Yet the right, and centre are convinced he is the Devil reborn. One side will be in for a shock. Interesting to look at the comments on the Beeb re Gordo, and his speech, some are now deriding him as a Tory lite, and of course St Tony who won 3 elections is almost as hated as Fatcha.
I find it hard to balance the two viewpoints, If you read the comments on the BBC web site, and the Guardian, then Corbyn is the "New Messiah", and they should know they have followed a few. Yet the right, and centre are convinced he is the Devil reborn. One side will be in for a shock. Interesting to look at the comments on the Beeb re Gordo, and his speech, some are now deriding him as a Tory lite, and of course St Tony who won 3 elections is almost as hated as Fatcha.
Shrewd comment. But with regard to St Tony and Fatcha, they have in common they won three elections. I think we can safely say Corbyn's admirers have this quality at the bottom of their list of priorities. It's probably seen as inequitable and undemocratic to keep coming first in a race with winners and losers - very much a capitalist ideal, after all!
My S K Tremayne antennae are detecting a shiver in etherspace. A few prior Corbynista on Twitter are now saying they have doubts... Like tyson on here.
Will they come to their senses and save the party, just in time?
I have it on good authority that the Sunil on Sunday will soon endorse Corbyn
I find it hard to believe there are any likely Lab > Con switchers, but are there even one or two?
With the Carswell precedent that you trigger a by-election if you defect, an added complication is that most of the likely defectors are in very Tory-resistant seats. Umunna, Danczuk, Tristram Hunt and Kendall would have no chance of holding their seats as Tories. John Woodcock (referenced in the last thread header) would have a chance though.
I do not believe you seriously think any of those you have mentioned are even remotely likely to defect to the Tories. Please tell me I am right and that 60% of Labour supporters have not gone certifiably insane.
I just don't want any metropolitan Eurofederalist flotsam joining our party. We need more working class views, not doubling down on the private school and Oxbridge educated.
On the other hand, the party leadership would welcome kindred spirits.
To paraphrase Lord Grey from 1914 "the lights are going out all across the land, I fear we will not see them re-lit in my lifetime."
So he died before 11/11/1918?
There's always been a controversy about whether he said that, and if so, what he meant. It has sometimes been suggested that he foresaw the 'Second Thirty Years War' (1914-45) in which case he did die before it was concluded. This seems unlikely however - in the 1920s, most people thought the war, although it had been long and brutal, was over, and a new era of peace, prosperity and universal sanity had dawned (we all make mistakes). It has also been suggested that it was made up. To be honest, I find the second plausible - Grey wasn't generally given to portentous statements so far as I can see, although unfortunately very little of his actual correspondence survives.
Of course, a rather sadder reason why he may have been right is that his own eyesight was rapidly failing by 1914, and in the 1920s he was pretty much blind.
If he did say it he was being unusually prescient. Most of his contemporaries expected a short war. Grey was perhaps one of a half dozen Europeans who could have stopped the July crisis developing into a world war. He is one of the guilty men.
But we stray from the point: Corbyn will make Labour unelectable for a decade. The question for the selectorate is whether this is a good or bad thing. I am putting Kendall first but thinking seriously about the remainder. I expect Liz to be eliminated first, but want her to have a strong showing. She has twice the support in the PLP to Corbyn.
JackW- you're still in the land of the living. Well done- if you can make it to the next election (2020) that'll be very welcome, and then after I guess you can happily meet your fellow Jacobite brethren with the happy knowledge that you helped enrich your pbCOM comrades over the years.
Just been to Iceland, where the lamb is to die for! I've also had, in Yorkshire,, a shank covered in a light curry flavoured sauce which was delicious.
I didn't think much of Icelandic lamb, not enough flavour. Not as good as the Herdwick hogget chops you used to be able to get from Borough Market. And for Plato - try proper free range rare breed pork, from Ginger Pig (again Borough Market) try their Tamworth chops, a pound weight each and an inch of backfat. Sublime.
Hogget is indeed delicious. The Ewes in the field next door to me have been bleating loudly all week. Their lambs went to the slaughterhouse this week.
I eat lamb, not just because of it being tasty but also because it is not intensively farmed, and always outdoor reared. I was vegetarian for a decade but started eating some meat shortly after foot and mouth. I had driven through the lake district at the height and seen the plumes of smoke and the empty hills. I didn't want to see the whole traditional uplands bare.
At lunch after church today there were many Corbyn supporters. There is a longing for idealism out there. I was reminded of the quote (I paraphrase):"the problem with athiesm is that once people cease to believe in god, they believe in anything". One New Labour ceased to deliver Labour governments, it ceased to stand for anything.
In the early eighties the swing to the left was driven by similar factors, with hatred for the Callaghan Healy axis for their compromises in power, which did not even bring the consolation of electoral success. It was 18 long years before we saw the need for an apparently sane centrist government.
To paraphrase Lord Grey from 1914 "the lights are going out all across the land, I fear we will not see them re-lit in my lifetime."
Charlton Hill Pigs, near Hitchin, do excellent free-range pork. I sometimes go up there to feed the little porkers with apples.
Just been to Iceland, where the lamb is to die for! I've also had, in Yorkshire,, a shank covered in a light curry flavoured sauce which was delicious.
I didn't think much of Icelandic lamb, not enough flavour. Not as good as the Herdwick hogget chops you used to be able to get from Borough Market. And for Plato - try proper free range rare breed pork, from Ginger Pig (again Borough Market) try their Tamworth chops, a pound weight each and an inch of backfat. Sublime.
Hogget isn't lamb. Not quiite. And would re-iterate that the crown of lamb my wife on our first night in Reykjavik was up there with the best she's ever had ....... and we're regular visitors to N/.Wal;es. That on the third and last night wasn't quite as good, but when the waitress looked at it she agreed, and we had a free dessert.
My S K Tremayne antennae are detecting a shiver in etherspace. A few prior Corbynista on Twitter are now saying they have doubts... Like tyson on here.
Will they come to their senses and save the party, just in time?
I have it on good authority that the Sunil on Sunday will soon endorse Corbyn
Great news how do I buy a copy.
I actually bought a Morning Star on Friday.
Apparently after toying with Kendall they decided to endorse Jezza!!
If he did say it he was being unusually prescient. Most of his contemporaries expected a short war. Grey was perhaps one of a half dozen Europeans who could have stopped the July crisis developing into a world war. He is one of the guilty men.
I'd go further, and say he could have stopped it by himself if he had tried. Grey was a capable diplomat, but also extremely depressed - indeed, we might go far as to call him unbalanced - after his wife died in a carriage accident. Had Lloyd George or Churchill been at the FO rather than getting all bellicose over Ireland, things might have been very different - they might have bullied the Austrians into backing down while keeping the Russians quiet. But there - counterfactual history is always 'might have been.'
But we stray from the point: Corbyn will make Labour unelectable for a decade. The question for the selectorate is whether this is a good or bad thing. I am putting Kendall first.
The real question, as Brown pointed out among the verbiage, is whether Labour want to do things or just sulk about how nasty their opponents are. Any of the other three offer at least the prospect of the first, Corbyn more or less guarantees the second. I know you and most other Labour posters on here get that - but I am struck by the way his recent behaviour and that of his supporters resembles religious rather than political discourse. Compare with this:
It’s the first time many Westminster lobby correspondents have seen the Corbyn roadshow in action. A deputy political editor who has managed to squeeze through the crush collapses next to me. “I’ve never seen anything like it!” he says. “I covered the entire general election but this is… unbelievable.” Most of the crowd are under 30, and there’s a sense of wild anticipation. “Actually, Nicola Sturgeon’s first breakthrough rally,” he says. “That had the rock music. And the young people. And the religious overtones in the secular setting.” Religious? “You know. The enthusiasm. It’s like a revival meeting.”
On the Guardian, after the defeat in May, I warned somebody arguing for precisely what Corbyn is offering 'If Labour wishes to stand for ideological purity and hurling insults at all heretics, that's its decision. However, it is a political party not a religious movement. To do anything it has to win power. To win power, it has to get votes. To get votes, it has to persuade people that its policies are worth voting for.' But I was clearly wasting my time - because Labour has decided to make that decision.
In doing so it is abrogating its duty to everyone in this country to provide realistic and effective opposition to what is going to be a divided and troubled government. Not good for anybody.
JackW- you're still in the land of the living. Well done- if you can make it to the next election (2020) that'll be very welcome, and then after I guess you can happily meet your fellow Jacobite brethren with the happy knowledge that you helped enrich your pbCOM comrades over the years.
Einstein described insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Burnham and Cooper are Continuity Miliband -- like him, tainted with the Brown years, like him lacking in imagination and ideas to save the Labour Party. They will just ensure 2020 is a repeat of 2015.
Both Kendall and Corbyn offer new ideas and new directions. I could see both of them changing the direction of the Labour party and ensuring 2020 is different, even winnable.
Burnham and Cooper won’t. Both are probably worse, or certainly no better than, Miliband.
@DPJHodges: Republicans + Trump. Labour + Corbyn. Thing is, Republicans will eventually reject Trump. GOP now saner than Labour. Think about that...
If the US elects Trump then we'll need Corbyn's coal mines.
Politics is a bit shit really - it's just a beauty contest between someone who halfway knows what they're talking about and several idiots that don't. How the truly incompetent politicians live with themselves I don't know. I'm sure we could charge them with wasting police time merely as a by-product of the fact that they're wasting everyone's time.
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
Only premature Tory press attacks on Corbyn can save Labour now. Only Leicester City can stop a Manchester domination of the premiership.
They've already associated him with Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, Holocaust denial and the Islington child sex abuse scandal (or at least, the coverup). What more could they throw at him to undermine him?
Only premature Tory press attacks on Corbyn can save Labour now. Only Leicester City can stop a Manchester domination of the premiership.
They've already associated him with Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, Holocaust denial and the Islington child sex abuse scandal (or at least, the coverup). What more could they throw at him to undermine him?
Are you sure? I didn't know that he was associated with Hamas and the IRA? What possible grounds could they have for saying this?
Only premature Tory press attacks on Corbyn can save Labour now. Only Leicester City can stop a Manchester domination of the premiership.
They've already associated him with Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, Holocaust denial and the Islington child sex abuse scandal (or at least, the coverup). What more could they throw at him to undermine him?
Are you sure? I didn't know that he was associated with Hamas and the IRA? What possible grounds could they have for saying this?
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
Just been to Iceland, where the lamb is to die for! I've also had, in Yorkshire,, a shank covered in a light curry flavoured sauce which was delicious.
I didn't think much of Icelandic lamb, not enough flavour. Not as good as the Herdwick hogget chops you used to be able to get from Borough Market. And for Plato - try proper free range rare breed pork, from Ginger Pig (again Borough Market) try their Tamworth chops, a pound weight each and an inch of backfat. Sublime.
Hogget isn't lamb. Not quiite. And would re-iterate that the crown of lamb my wife on our first night in Reykjavik was up there with the best she's ever had ....... and we're regular visitors to N/.Wal;es. That on the third and last night wasn't quite as good, but when the waitress looked at it she agreed, and we had a free dessert.
I like my meat rich and gamey, Icelandic lamb has a very short growing season so is great if you like it tender and delicate. I did enjoy horse, guillemot, puffin, shag and minke whale. The buried shark is great as an excuse for drinking brennivin. The dried fish is an excellent snack if a little smelly.
"No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out."
New Labour was needed because old Labour were bloody useless and brought the country to its knees. The clue is in their name,
My S K Tremayne antennae are detecting a shiver in etherspace. A few prior Corbynista on Twitter are now saying they have doubts... Like tyson on here.
Will they come to their senses and save the party, just in time?
The fallout if he doesn't win, compared to if he does, will be precisely the same. It's just a matter of the direction that the "spitting of the dummy" and cries of foul emanate.
Quite a stunning public performance from Labour even by their own "Whelk store" managerial standards.
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
My S K Tremayne antennae are detecting a shiver in etherspace. A few prior Corbynista on Twitter are now saying they have doubts... Like tyson on here.
Will they come to their senses and save the party, just in time?
I have it on good authority that the Sunil on Sunday will soon endorse Corbyn
Great news how do I buy a copy.
I actually bought a Morning Star on Friday.
Apparently after toying with Kendall they decided to endorse Jezza!!
My S K Tremayne antennae are detecting a shiver in etherspace. A few prior Corbynista on Twitter are now saying they have doubts... Like tyson on here.
Will they come to their senses and save the party, just in time?
I've been saying for several days that the members that I know are mostly in two minds (all but two of them want to vote for Corbyn, and all but three are unsure what to do), and punters who've bet the house on Corbyn should look at a saver at the current long odds on offer on Cooper and Burnham, just in case. I think he'll win, and think it will be unhealthy for Labour if he loses by a sliver, but it's not quite a done deal.
Incidentally, tyson, I think the McDonnell as SCOE rumour is not sourced, and pretty unlikely for several reasons.
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
F1: not too long until the next race, thankfully. Hopefully next year the calendar won't be so ridiculous as to have a 7 week period with one bloody race.
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
Mail reporting that Songs of Praise from Calais actually dispensed with the songs.
It is said there was once a television repeat of The Sound of Music that ditched all the songs because they made the film too long for its slot. (That was in South Korea, apparently.)
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
I suggest mr Ydoethur does not remember how bad it was during the union dominated 70's . Not for him doing homework by candle freezing your nuts off and getting transport strikes every other day under a Labour government finally running cap in hand to the IMF.
Other than that the only difference between the Labour years before Thatcher and the Nu Labour years after Thatcher was that the unburied bodies were due to union strikes in this country rather than due to air strikes in another.
Only premature Tory press attacks on Corbyn can save Labour now. Only Leicester City can stop a Manchester domination of the premiership.
They've already associated him with Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, Holocaust denial and the Islington child sex abuse scandal (or at least, the coverup). What more could they throw at him to undermine him?
Are you sure? I didn't know that he was associated with Hamas and the IRA? What possible grounds could they have for saying this?
If Labour supporters are as ignorant about Mr Corbyn's background as some here appear to be, they'll look a bunch of fools if he's elected Leader and they then find out.
Since it's all in the public domain - Wikipedia for example - it's going to be fun.. (I'm rather elderly and find it difficult to believe people don't do 2 minutes research on a potential leader - it's so easy.)
I still think that Jezza will never be LOTO, but it's probably too late to prevent serious harm. The cat is out of the bag, the die is cast, the Rubicon is crossed.
He has to disappear for the good of the party.
Mr Tyson, your mission, if you wish to accept it, is to eat Jezza, vest and all. I know he's a bit old and gristly, but someone has to make him go away.
Probably, it's a fairly common trope in sci-fi I believe and they are working on vat grown meat. We might not be that far away from it being viable and cost efficient I'd have thought.
YUK!!!!!
Friend I was talking to the other day mentioned this. Price of an artificial hamburger has fallen from $10,000 to $6 over the last 3 years. We were discussing the impact on the livestock industry (he was debating whether to invest his hard earned dollars in medicines for moggies or natural mastitis ointments for lactating cattle)
I suggest mr Ydoethur does not remember how bad it was during the union dominated 70's . Not for him doing homework by candle freezing your nuts off and getting transport strikes every other day under a Labour government finally running cap in hand to the IMF.
It would be a truly remarkable feat of memory if I did remember the 1970s at all - given I was born in April 1983. I was almost literally a child of the Thatcher landslide. So yes, I will agree with that point!
I do however remember how bad it got under Labour when they had, in effect, no opposition to hold them to account and became steadily crazier and more corrupt without any check at all as a result. I do not want to see that happen again.
Comments
A Labour Party thatis gorging on its own innards is going to pause and say "but you have to fight a by-election now" to any defector?
They'll just say "good riddance, Tory!!" and return to the feast.
I take back my earlier comment to @SouthamObserver - compared to the absolute drivel I read in that leaflet, voting for Corbyn looks positively sensible.
Of course, there is a real meaning for the word 'Tory' - an Irish outlaw. So I suppose, in theory at least, it could be applied to the IRA, and by extension to a man who has had dealings with them (after all, it's often applied to Thatcher)! However, my understanding is that normally you have to steal cattle as well to qualify. So if there's any evidence that Corbyn refused to condemn any ruminant rustling by the IRA, maybe we're getting warm.
Similarly if anyone comments on having seen Cameron running around Western Scotland with a large herd of beasts looking for a supply of corn, I suppose he might reasonably be called a Whig.
Grilled or otherwise.
It's like an Ancient Greek picking a holiday destination. And choosing Tartarus.
Of course, a rather sadder reason why he may have been right is that his own eyesight was rapidly failing by 1914, and in the 1920s he was pretty much blind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lamps_are_going_out
It'd be a very poor world if we followed the example of Shaun Woodward. A man who by his by his own actions defines himself as a liar.
Do they think that lots of Trotskyist convicted murderers from Spain were welcomed to the Eastern bloc with multiple decorations (Order of Lenin, Hero of the Soviet Union etc) on their release? That being said, as I recall he later became a radio maintenance worker and lived rather quietly - by the 1960s, of course, the purges were something people were not anxious to remember.
I'm beginning to see where some of the problems that have bedevilled recent threads come from. I haven't read such total nonsense since the last time I forced myself to plough through the work of fringe conspiracy theorist René Salm as part of tangential research on Biblical Nazareth.
Special stuff very popular
Creme Brulee
Has anyone accused the Morning Star of being a crypto-Tory front yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQLKpY3NdeA
'friends' is just a polite English turn of phrase.
Yet the right, and centre are convinced he is the Devil reborn.
One side will be in for a shock.
Interesting to look at the comments on the Beeb re Gordo, and his speech, some are now deriding him as a Tory lite, and of course St Tony who won 3 elections is almost as hated as Fatcha.
Stranger even than Kendall backers in the Labour party
The Butchers still milking it to this day
But we stray from the point: Corbyn will make Labour unelectable for a decade. The question for the selectorate is whether this is a good or bad thing. I am putting Kendall first but thinking seriously about the remainder. I expect Liz to be eliminated first, but want her to have a strong showing. She has twice the support in the PLP to Corbyn.
I actually bought a Morning Star on Friday.
Apparently after toying with Kendall they decided to endorse Jezza!!
In doing so it is abrogating its duty to everyone in this country to provide realistic and effective opposition to what is going to be a divided and troubled government. Not good for anybody.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/who-nominated-who-2015-labour-leadership-election
Burnham and Cooper are Continuity Miliband -- like him, tainted with the Brown years, like him lacking in imagination and ideas to save the Labour Party. They will just ensure 2020 is a repeat of 2015.
Both Kendall and Corbyn offer new ideas and new directions. I could see both of them changing the direction of the Labour party and ensuring 2020 is different, even winnable.
Burnham and Cooper won’t. Both are probably worse, or certainly no better than, Miliband.
(awaits witty comment from hilarious PB Tory that the paper is full of Tits)
Politics is a bit shit really - it's just a beauty contest between someone who halfway knows what they're talking about and several idiots that don't. How the truly incompetent politicians live with themselves I don't know. I'm sure we could charge them with wasting police time merely as a by-product of the fact that they're wasting everyone's time.
No-one under 30 has had to live under 18 years of Thatcher and Major. They do not appreciate why New Labour was needed. The fact that Blair went bonkers, and Brown too, makes people forget how bad things were. Well, they are about to find out!
Although a resident told me it was only a bit of blackpudding added.
I think he was trying to trick me!!
The butchers, pub, job centre (actually a village hall) and local shop are all basically still living off the LOG popularity.
Playing along with the special stuff local shop Creme Brulee stuff.
Mrs BJ took me for a weekend for my 40th (at the height of LOG popularity and we went for a visit 10 years later.It was still exactly the same.
only Liz left now
The UK under the thrall of the unions was grim. The years under Wilson, Callaghan and Heath were awful.
IRA: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2015/07/jeremy-corbyn-reunites-with-his-old-comrade-gerry-adams-in-parliament/
He had me voting LD as collectively Lab were (insert phrase here)
New Labour was needed because old Labour were bloody useless and brought the country to its knees. The clue is in their name,
Quite a stunning public performance from Labour even by their own "Whelk store" managerial standards.
Incidentally, tyson, I think the McDonnell as SCOE rumour is not sourced, and pretty unlikely for several reasons.
As a sidenote Blair actually looks like a Labour politician that has become irretrievably linked with the 'Evil Tory Bastard' label. Haunted.
Poor chap. I'm sure with a little more thought he could have become a Good Conservative Citizen like the rest of us.
Other than that the only difference between the Labour years before Thatcher and the Nu Labour years after Thatcher was that the unburied bodies were due to union strikes in this country rather than due to air strikes in another.
If Labour supporters are as ignorant about Mr Corbyn's background as some here appear to be, they'll look a bunch of fools if he's elected Leader and they then find out.
Since it's all in the public domain - Wikipedia for example - it's going to be fun.. (I'm rather elderly and find it difficult to believe people don't do 2 minutes research on a potential leader - it's so easy.)
I still think that Jezza will never be LOTO, but it's probably too late to prevent serious harm. The cat is out of the bag, the die is cast, the Rubicon is crossed.
He has to disappear for the good of the party.
Mr Tyson, your mission, if you wish to accept it, is to eat Jezza, vest and all. I know he's a bit old and gristly, but someone has to make him go away.
Think of the children.
I do however remember how bad it got under Labour when they had, in effect, no opposition to hold them to account and became steadily crazier and more corrupt without any check at all as a result. I do not want to see that happen again.