Further for Ms Plato, here's Paul Mason's definition of Neoliberalism from his new book (via a comment on Richard Mutphy's site):
"By neoliberalism I mean the global capitalist system shaped around a core of neoliberal practices and institutions , themselves guided by a widespread and spontaneously reproduced ideology, and ruled by an elite which acts in a neoliberal way, whatever conflicting and moderating ideas it holds in its head - See more at: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/08/10/paul-mason-postcapitalism-my-book-of-the-year-so-far/ "
Yep. These Leftists certainly know what they are talking about. I haven't read the context in the book.
I read that sentence as "neoliberalism is defined as neoliberal practices guided by a neoliberal ideology and ruled by a neoliberal elite."
Is that fair?
if only there was a free and comprehensive online encyclopedia where you could look up this sort of thing
On the other hand, I should perhaps apologise if I have caused you offense, time difference meaning I am a bit more pissed than you at this time in the morning.
well, then I'm 2 hours ahead of you I'm in for robust debate, but I honestly don't intend to cause offence
''People who do not applaud loudly enough will no doubt be disappeared. It could all get quite hysteric.''
This has all happened before, but in the 1980s there was a wonderful bedrock of decent labour people who did not support or want the militants and were determined to fight.
Is that bedrock still there? I don;t know labour well at all, but there must be doubts.
The economic case for the EU weakens a lot when the European single market is getting smaller relative to the UK economy every year, while the non-European market gets bigger and bigger.
We really need those trade deals with Canada and the US to go through. Strangely, there seems to be no urgency on the EU side despite economic stagnation.
Thank you for this. Do you have the balance of trade figures for the UK and the EU and the UK and the rest of the world? I'd be interested to see them but I don't know where to look for them.
Thank you yes, that answers a few questions. Bit concerning that we have imbalances with China and Germany the wrong way, while we have surpluses with such mighty economies as Ireland and the UAE (and the USA, of course).
The UK's trade figures have been awful for decades, our biggest export is and has been for some time the nation's wealth and capital (so much of that inward investment politicians like to boast about is little more than asset stripping).
But Joe Average Voter cares nothing for this because he doesn't understand the implications. We need to get seriously into many things now - import substitution, fracking, more tourism, pushing very hard in the EU for services liberalisation (it's supposed to be one of the 4 founding freedom after all) - basically a concerted push to restore our balance of payments deficit. A weaker Pound would help.
Is this the worst leadership choice since the Macedonians had to choose between Alexander's mentally ill brother or his unborn child?
Even the regency couldn't be given to Hephaestion (recently dead) or Craterus (recently sent west) and ended up with Perdiccas.
Even if Corbyn doesn't win, who else is there? Kendall seems to have a right general approach, but little personal following and very little chance. Burnham is a lightweight on the verge of tears. Cooper's voice training has reached almost comical depths and her pitch appears to be "Vote for me - I have ovaries."
I was giving this some thought early this morning. Surely there are the following possibilities:
1) JC wins. The losers and their supporters back him, and the party shuffles slightly / lurches hard to the left.
2) JC wins. The losers (the majority of MPs) cause all sorts of havoc for his leadership and the party is seen as more split than it was in 2006/7 under the Brownite coup.
3) JC wins. The losers organise a putsch and the party splits. This will leave whichever side of the party (nominally JC vs Blairites) which does not inherit the organisational structure with massive problems. If it is the Blairite wing, they will also face positional problems in the political spectrum. We end up with another SDP-style situation.
4) ABC wins. The leftists and JC supporters back ABC, and the party, with a slightly more leftist slant, might be stronger than before.
5) ABC wins. The JC wing start causing large problems for the party; and we end up with another Militant-style split.
@ZoraSuleman: Judge tells Court that she'll ``resolve'' the issue of Lord Janner appearing in court today ``even if I have to have him arrested''.
This is where it seems to be getting a bit strange. Surely non-attendance at court would normally just lead to a straightforward arrest so there is no 'even if' about it? I know that Janner's lawyers have put forward what might be considered a 'reasonable excuse' but since it was rejected only a short time ago, it's hard to see what the point of saying it again is.
Unless that statement is just for public consumption given how high feelings are running at the moment?
She looks to be having more fun than the other candidates!
Or the Kids. Is this where she gave her interview about Labour giving up being a serious party if they dont elect a bouncing blair babe. Today Alton Towers Tomorrow the party will see sense and vote for me. FFS she is a complete joke
Alternatively if you don't want to like people you can find all sorts of silly reasons not to like them.
Any other serious politicians make a speech about their party not being a serious party of Government within hours of happily performing on a bouncy castle. Wouldnt defend Mrs BJ if she did that TBF. I mean seriously I like Monty Python but she is beyond parody.
You are the one beyond parody. Have you never heard of politicians kissing babies? Politicians do not go round making policy speeches 24/7
if only there was a free and comprehensive online encyclopedia where you could look up this sort of thing
May I recommend one small addition?
'if only there was a free and comprehensive AND TRUSTWORTHY online encyclopedia where you could look up this sort of thing.'
Unfortunately of course there isn't. I remember once reading an article which stated that Wikipedia had fewer errors than the Britannica. However, it lost a little credibility by virtue of having been written by, er, Wikipedia. In fact, since it was based on original research, it should not have been allowed under Wikipedia's own rules anyway!
Didn't stop the very unpleasant American I was at that time investigating trying to use it to prove some of his deliberate falsifications of history surrounding Hitler, of course, but these things happen.
No, the study of WIkipedia v EB was not done by Wikipedia.
The accuracy of Wikipedia across major topics is now very good, as long as you think of accuracy as representing the secondary sources.
Thus most of the critique tends to be that an article is taking a revisionist/orthodox viewpoint, based on the complainant asserting the truth of half the literature and the falsity of the other half.
The study I saw came from the Jimmy Wales foundation. It was a while ago and if there was a genuine study behind it, I'd be glad to see it.
I find very often that there is gentle agenda-pushing even on its major topics, in particular attempts to play up or play down key arguments and the habit of 'quote mining' to support points of view, or randomly removing sourced materials because they reveal information that discredits the subject or at least, shows them in an unflattering light. That may be simply because my areas of expertise are in fairly controversial topics (as some on here may have noted)!
I have tended to take the view that it is a worthy guide to further reading, but nothing else. Since some of the articles still don't have footnotes, they seem to me to be pretty useless.
Well there have been many comparisons since, but the article in Nature is the most famous:
I was giving this some thought early this morning. Surely there are the following possibilities:
1) JC wins. The losers and their supporters back him, and the party shuffles slightly / lurches hard to the left.
2) JC wins. The losers (the majority of MPs) cause all sorts of havoc for his leadership and the party is seen as more split than it was in 2006/7 under the Brownite coup.
3) JC wins. The losers organise a putsch and the party splits. This will leave whichever side of the party (nominally JC vs Blairites) which does not inherit the organisational structure with massive problems. If it is the Blairite wing, they will also face positional problems in the political spectrum. We end up with another SDP-style situation.
4) ABC wins. The leftists and JC supporters back ABC, and the party, with a slightly more leftist slant, might be stronger than before.
5) ABC wins. The JC wing start causing large problems for the party; and we end up with another Militant-style split.
I was giving this some thought early this morning. Surely there are the following possibilities:
1) JC wins. The losers and their supporters back him, and the party shuffles slightly / lurches hard to the left.
2) JC wins. The losers (the majority of MPs) cause all sorts of havoc for his leadership and the party is seen as more split than it was in 2006/7 under the Brownite coup.
3) JC wins. The losers organise a putsch and the party splits. This will leave whichever side of the party (nominally JC vs Blairites) which does not inherit the organisational structure with massive problems. If it is the Blairite wing, they will also face positional problems in the political spectrum. We end up with another SDP-style situation.
4) ABC wins. The leftists and JC supporters back ABC, and the party, with a slightly more leftist slant, might be stronger than before.
5) ABC wins. The JC wing start causing large problems for the party; and we end up with another Militant-style split.
The possibilities seem good ones, lucidly presented. The only quibble is whether 4 and 5 are serious possibilities at this stage.
(2) bluntly seems the likeliest outcome to me - all disruption short of rupture.
I have tended to take the view that it is a worthy guide to further reading, but nothing else. Since some of the articles still don't have footnotes, they seem to me to be pretty useless.
that's exactly what it is. It can also provide an indication of the current usage of popular terms (as well as a comprehensive guide to minor characters in video games) which is why I mentioned it. To be honest the footnotes thing is a red herring in my opinion as they often lead to less credible sources and if you don't follow the whole trail it's difficult to judge.
I think there was a study specifically about science which concluded it was fairly credible, but I don't remember wher I read that. Cheers!
The New Puritism emanating from Corbynistas will provide great entertainment for those of us BBQing babies this Bank Holiday.
For fellow Labourites who knocked on doors only three months ago - it must be coming as quite a shock.
I'm trying to recall if Blairites/New Labour tried to deselect political rivals? I can't think of any examples.
Removing team mates who disagree the moment you get your mitts on the tiller, seems rather unattractive and fundamentalist. First they came for the Blairites...
The venom against anyone seen to deviate from Jezziah's teachings is really rather WTF.
It's all so hate filled. The Left is infamous for its ability to factionise - but this descent into name-calling is remarkably quick.
Mind you I am enjoying seeing people who regularly demonise Tories receiving the same treatment from what is supposed to be their own side.
The Blairites certainly did make sure that their people got into the key positions. You will remember Ken Livingstone had to run for mayor as an independent. I seem to remember Rhodri Morgan in Wales having a similar difficulty. Indeed I don't see anything especially wrong with it. Dave Nellist was certainly deselected, and quite right too. Any party has to keep people who don't agree with its core beliefs out. It beats me why the Tories don't throw out that Hannan guy.
As for the left being so hate filled, have you read the newspapers? For my entire life I have had to endure every left wing politician of just about any hue being demonised continually. It never stops. Reading the media is so distorting you have no idea what is actually going on. But John Major can refer to a group of his MPs as 'bastards' and everyone says what a nice guy he is. The reality is that given that it is a contest for the top job in politics from the point of view of the participants, the Labour leadership election has been remarkably civil and there has been very little name calling in general and none at all from the most left wing candidate.
Ivan *Dog Licences For Journalists* Lewis has really gone for it.
In a letter to his local party members, the shadow Northern Ireland secretary said: “Some of his stated political views are a cause for serious concern. At the very least he has shown very poor judgment in expressing support for and failing to speak out against people who have engaged not in legitimate criticism of Israeli governments but in antisemitic rhetoric.
“It saddens me to have to say to some on the left of British politics that anti-racism means zero tolerance of antisemitism, no ifs, and no buts. I have said the same about Islamophobia and other forms of racism to a minority of my constituents who make unacceptable statements.”
Further for Ms Plato, here's Paul Mason's definition of Neoliberalism from his new book (via a comment on Richard Mutphy's site):
"By neoliberalism I mean the global capitalist system shaped around a core of neoliberal practices and institutions , themselves guided by a widespread and spontaneously reproduced ideology, and ruled by an elite which acts in a neoliberal way, whatever conflicting and moderating ideas it holds in its head - See more at: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/08/10/paul-mason-postcapitalism-my-book-of-the-year-so-far/ "
Yep. These Leftists certainly know what they are talking about. I haven't read the context in the book.
I'm sorry to say I struggled with this. Had I not been told that it was the product of PM's brilliant mind, I might have dismissed it as gobbledygook.
Thank you. I hadn't seen that before and it is interesting. The one I saw said that it had fewer mistakes than Britannica, so either it was a misreporting (which would be ironic) or it was based on a different study.
If everyone simply used Wikipedia as a springboard to reading the materials themselves, we'd be perfectly happy!
That I definitely agree with. However, that's increasingly not the case and it does worry me when I find obvious and partisan comments on controversial topics, e.g. Hitler, or the Cultural Revolution, which give misleading views on it. It worries me more when I find them in school work, and worried me most of all when they cropped up in university essays.
The economic case for the EU weakens a lot when the European single market is getting smaller relative to the UK economy every year, while the non-European market gets bigger and bigger.
We really need those trade deals with Canada and the US to go through. Strangely, there seems to be no urgency on the EU side despite economic stagnation.
Thank you for this. Do you have the balance of trade figures for the UK and the EU and the UK and the rest of the world? I'd be interested to see them but I don't know where to look for them.
Thank you yes, that answers a few questions. Bit concerning that we have imbalances with China and Germany the wrong way, while we have surpluses with such mighty economies as Ireland and the UAE (and the USA, of course).
The UK's trade figures have been awful for decades, our biggest export is and has been for some time the nation's wealth and capital (so much of that inward investment politicians like to boast about is little more than asset stripping).
But Joe Average Voter cares nothing for this because he doesn't understand the implications. We need to get seriously into many things now - import substitution, fracking, more tourism, pushing very hard in the EU for services liberalisation (it's supposed to be one of the 4 founding freedom after all) - basically a concerted push to restore our balance of payments deficit. A weaker Pound would help.
Import substitution is a famously successful economic policy.
I was giving this some thought early this morning. Surely there are the following possibilities:
1) JC wins. The losers and their supporters back him, and the party shuffles slightly / lurches hard to the left.
2) JC wins. The losers (the majority of MPs) cause all sorts of havoc for his leadership and the party is seen as more split than it was in 2006/7 under the Brownite coup.
3) JC wins. The losers organise a putsch and the party splits. This will leave whichever side of the party (nominally JC vs Blairites) which does not inherit the organisational structure with massive problems. If it is the Blairite wing, they will also face positional problems in the political spectrum. We end up with another SDP-style situation.
4) ABC wins. The leftists and JC supporters back ABC, and the party, with a slightly more leftist slant, might be stronger than before.
5) ABC wins. The JC wing start causing large problems for the party; and we end up with another Militant-style split.
You'll get good odds on #4 !
I agree it's unlikely! But if JC listens to the whole party, rather than just 'his' segments, then it might be achievable. However the more rancour there is in this election process, the greater than chance of 3) or 5).
A major and very important difference between the SNP and Corbyn Labour is that the SNP has a flag to wave and does so enthusiastically.
Strange how saltire cuffinks, jogging in a Scotland football top and vowing to 'reclaim the saltire from the SNP' didn't work for Irn Bru-swigging Jim Murphy. It's all in how you wave it I guess.
The SNP got there first and mean it. They win in Scotland because they are Scotland's party, not because of their policies. Corbyn's red flag does not quite have the same cache as a national flag.
The economic case for the EU weakens a lot when the European single market is getting smaller relative to the UK economy every year, while the non-European market gets bigger and bigger.
We really need those trade deals with Canada and the US to go through. Strangely, there seems to be no urgency on the EU side despite economic stagnation.
Thank you for this. Do you have the balance of trade figures for the UK and the EU and the UK and the rest of the world? I'd be interested to see them but I don't know where to look for them.
Thank you yes, that answers a few questions. Bit concerning that we have imbalances with China and Germany the wrong way, while we have surpluses with such mighty economies as Ireland and the UAE (and the USA, of course).
The UK's trade figures have been awful for decades, our biggest export is and has been for some time the nation's wealth and capital (so much of that inward investment politicians like to boast about is little more than asset stripping).
But Joe Average Voter cares nothing for this because he doesn't understand the implications. We need to get seriously into many things now - import substitution, fracking, more tourism, pushing very hard in the EU for services liberalisation (it's supposed to be one of the 4 founding freedom after all) - basically a concerted push to restore our balance of payments deficit. A weaker Pound would help.
A weaker pound would bloody help. If it heads up much more, I could be in the realms of posting negative contribution on a 10 million Euro job !
The New Puritism emanating from Corbynistas will provide great entertainment for those of us BBQing babies this Bank Holiday.
For fellow Labourites who knocked on doors only three months ago - it must be coming as quite a shock.
I'm trying to recall if Blairites/New Labour tried to deselect political rivals? I can't think of any examples.
Removing team mates who disagree the moment you get your mitts on the tiller, seems rather unattractive and fundamentalist. First they came for the Blairites...
The venom against anyone seen to deviate from Jezziah's teachings is really rather WTF.
It's all so hate filled. The Left is infamous for its ability to factionise - but this descent into name-calling is remarkably quick.
Mind you I am enjoying seeing people who regularly demonise Tories receiving the same treatment from what is supposed to be their own side.
The Blairites certainly did make sure that their people got into the key positions. You will remember Ken Livingstone had to run for mayor as an independent. I seem to remember Rhodri Morgan in Wales having a similar difficulty. Indeed I don't see anything especially wrong with it. Dave Nellist was certainly deselected, and quite right too. Any party has to keep people who don't agree with its core beliefs out. It beats me why the Tories don't throw out that Hannan guy.
As for the left being so hate filled, have you read the newspapers? For my entire life I have had to endure every left wing politician of just about any hue being demonised continually. It never stops. Reading the media is so distorting you have no idea what is actually going on. But John Major can refer to a group of his MPs as 'bastards' and everyone says what a nice guy he is. The reality is that given that it is a contest for the top job in politics from the point of view of the participants, the Labour leadership election has been remarkably civil and there has been very little name calling in general and none at all from the most left wing candidate.
Is this the worst leadership choice since the Macedonians had to choose between Alexander's mentally ill brother or his unborn child?
Even the regency couldn't be given to Hephaestion (recently dead) or Craterus (recently sent west) and ended up with Perdiccas.
Even if Corbyn doesn't win, who else is there? Kendall seems to have a right general approach, but little personal following and very little chance. Burnham is a lightweight on the verge of tears. Cooper's voice training has reached almost comical depths and her pitch appears to be "Vote for me - I have ovaries."
Does anyone have a list of Labour MPs who are supporting Corbyn? I'd be interested to know how many there are.
I made this unfinished list based on the 35 nominees (there were 48 welfare rebels though and probably some party drones who abstained but will swear allegiance anyway):
Supporting him: Diane Abbott (fanatical left) Ronnie Campbell (leftie disgusted by blairites) Richard Burgon (hard leftie) Dennis Skinner (veteran left) Jon Trickett (leftie) Kelvin Hopkins (eurosceptic and homoeopathy support, so probably crazy leftie) Imran Hussain (at a corbyn rally introduced corbyn as "next PM") John McDonnell ('would swim through vomit to oppose sickening welfare bill') Grahame Morris (“a very strong prospect” of Mr Corbyn winning the contest) Michael Meacher ("The arrogance and intolerance of the Blairites is breathtaking." his blog) Cat Smith ("Prior to entering Parliament she worked for Jeremy Corbyn MP" wikipedia) Rebecca Long-Bailey (Welfare Rebel)
Sarah Champion (?) Clive Efford (?) Rushanara Ali (deputy (?)) Jo Cox (?) Clive Lewis (?) Kate Osamor (?) Catherine West (?)
Jon Cruddas ("the Tories didn't win despite austerity, they won because of it") Margaret Beckett (I was a moron to nominate JC, voting for AB) Louise Haigh (voting for AB) Tulip Siddiq (voting for AB) Dawn Butler (voting for AB) Emily Thornberry (voting for YC) Andrew Smith (voting for YC) Rupa Huq (voting for YC) Gordon Marsden (voting for YC) Neil Coyle (voting YC or LK) Gareth Thomas (voting for LK) Huw Irranca-Davies (not voting for JC) Chi Onwurah (not voting for JC) Frank Field (not voting for JC) David Lammy (mayoral, not voting for JC) Sadiq Khan (mayoral, not voting for JC)
The New Puritism emanating from Corbynistas will provide great entertainment for those of us BBQing babies this Bank Holiday.
For fellow Labourites who knocked on doors only three months ago - it must be coming as quite a shock.
I'm trying to recall if Blairites/New Labour tried to deselect political rivals? I can't think of any examples.
Removing team mates who disagree the moment you get your mitts on the tiller, seems rather unattractive and fundamentalist. First they came for the Blairites...
The venom against anyone seen to deviate from Jezziah's teachings is really rather WTF.
It's all so hate filled. The Left is infamous for its ability to factionise - but this descent into name-calling is remarkably quick.
Mind you I am enjoying seeing people who regularly demonise Tories receiving the same treatment from what is supposed to be their own side.
The Blairites certainly did make sure that their people got into the key positions. You will remember Ken Livingstone had to run for mayor as an independent. I seem to remember Rhodri Morgan in Wales having a similar difficulty. Indeed I don't see anything especially wrong with it. Dave Nellist was certainly deselected, and quite right too. Any party has to keep people who don't agree with its core beliefs out. It beats me why the Tories don't throw out that Hannan guy.
...
Livingstone and Morgan both ended up in the jobs though, representing Labour, sooner or later.
As for Hannan, what is the core Conservative belief that you don't think he believes in?
I think there was a study specifically about science which concluded it was fairly credible, but I don't remember wher I read that. Cheers!
Thanks for the reply. I don't know enough about the science to judge it from that point of view. In history, it's generally less than perfect.
I imagine however it is easier to check matters of fact in science rather than the extensive level of interpretation in History, although there are facts in history that can be checked (and are not always truthfully presented there either). Which is why I recommended the alteration.
It can be used for contemporary definitions - but be careful! These can be wrongly edited too just as a form of fun. For example, see here.
Mr Mason was nominated for the Bad Sex Award. Our fellow PBer @SeanT won it. He's in illustrious company. I honestly don't think it's possible to parody this.
Other TV types have been disappointingly slow to respond to the gauntlet thrown down by Kay Burley's raunchy novel First Ladies last year, but at last a challenger has emerged in the unlikely form of Newsnight economics editor Paul Mason. Mason's just-published debut novel Rare Earth ("a washed-up TV reporter stumbles on a corruption scandal in China") has moments that leave the Sky News anchor looking prim, including a standout scene distinctively fusing economics and erotica.
In it a character called Khunbish explains a business deal while he and his lover Chun-li try out "tantric position 103" – she mounts a stuffed horse while he clings head-down to its side. "He began thrusting wildly in the general direction of her chrysanthemum but missing, his paunchy frame shuddering with the effort of remaining rigid and upside down. 'The cartel, sells, to the global market,' he panted. 'The price is inflated because production has been capped!' She began to pant in unison with him ... 'Cartel evades export controls. Market capitalisation of western miners stays low. Massive, one-way, bet'... He switched to some ancient steppe language as he ejaculated, blubbering and incoherent. Chun-li faked an orgasm, keeping her mind focused on an eighth-century lyric of sadness."
Further for Ms Plato, here's Paul Mason's definition of Neoliberalism from his new book (via a comment on Richard Mutphy's site):
"By neoliberalism I mean the global capitalist system shaped around a core of neoliberal practices and institutions , themselves guided by a widespread and spontaneously reproduced ideology, and ruled by an elite which acts in a neoliberal way, whatever conflicting and moderating ideas it holds in its head - See more at: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/08/10/paul-mason-postcapitalism-my-book-of-the-year-so-far/ "
Yep. These Leftists certainly know what they are talking about. I haven't read the context in the book.
I'm sorry to say I struggled with this. Had I not been told that it was the product of PM's brilliant mind, I might have dismissed it as gobbledygook.
Salmond wants independence. Like Sturgeon he understands the quickest way to get it is having Tory governments in Westminster.
Except that is probably not true. With the UK economy booming under a Tory chancellor, and the oil price collapsing, the Scots are not stupid enough to vote for penury, even if Nicola is.
You clearly have a very strange idea of a 'booming economy'. 2.5% growth and rising unemployment ?
''People who do not applaud loudly enough will no doubt be disappeared. It could all get quite hysteric.''
This has all happened before, but in the 1980s there was a wonderful bedrock of decent labour people who did not support or want the militants and were determined to fight.
Is that bedrock still there? I don;t know labour well at all, but there must be doubts.
You are living in a dreamworld. Nobody in the 1980s was disappeared from the Labour Party for not applauding loudly enough. The Militant Tendency were Trotskyists who were trying to operate in the Labour Party. Nobody in the real Labour Party wanted them once they realised what they were up to. They were expelled from the party following due process and with support from the left of the party as much as anybody else.
Does anyone have a list of Labour MPs who are supporting Corbyn? I'd be interested to know how many there are.
I made this unfinished list based on the 35 nominees (there were 48 welfare rebels though and probably some party drones who abstained but will swear allegiance anyway):
Supporting him: Diane Abbott (fanatical left) Ronnie Campbell (leftie disgusted by blairites) Richard Burgon (hard leftie) Dennis Skinner (veteran left) Jon Trickett (leftie) Kelvin Hopkins (eurosceptic and homoeopathy support, so probably crazy leftie) Imran Hussain (at a corbyn rally introduced corbyn as "next PM") John McDonnell ('would swim through vomit to oppose sickening welfare bill') Grahame Morris (“a very strong prospect” of Mr Corbyn winning the contest) Michael Meacher ("The arrogance and intolerance of the Blairites is breathtaking." his blog) Cat Smith ("Prior to entering Parliament she worked for Jeremy Corbyn MP" wikipedia) Rebecca Long-Bailey (Welfare Rebel)
Sarah Champion (?) Clive Efford (?) Rushanara Ali (deputy (?)) Jo Cox (?) Clive Lewis (?) Kate Osamor (?) Catherine West (?)
Jon Cruddas ("the Tories didn't win despite austerity, they won because of it") Margaret Beckett (I was a moron to nominate JC, voting for AB) Louise Haigh (voting for AB) Tulip Siddiq (voting for AB) Dawn Butler (voting for AB) Emily Thornberry (voting for YC) Andrew Smith (voting for YC) Rupa Huq (voting for YC) Gordon Marsden (voting for YC) Neil Coyle (voting YC or LK) Gareth Thomas (voting for LK) Huw Irranca-Davies (not voting for JC) Chi Onwurah (not voting for JC) Frank Field (not voting for JC) David Lammy (mayoral, not voting for JC) Sadiq Khan (mayoral, not voting for JC)
Thanks. I'd be surprised if Sarah Champion isn't supporting Yvette Cooper. Members of the Campaign Group not in the list are John Cryer, Ian Lavery, Ian Mearns:
Seeing all his good works on Militant turned to naught would be karma for Kinnock's comment about the Tories - wanting to "grind the bastards into dust".
In it a character called Khunbish explains a business deal while he and his lover Chun-li try out "tantric position 103" – she mounts a stuffed horse while he clings head-down to its side. "He began thrusting wildly in the general direction of her chrysanthemum but missing, his paunchy frame shuddering with the effort of remaining rigid and upside down. 'The cartel, sells, to the global market,' he panted. 'The price is inflated because production has been capped!' She began to pant in unison with him ... 'Cartel evades export controls. Market capitalisation of western miners stays low. Massive, one-way, bet'... He switched to some ancient steppe language as he ejaculated, blubbering and incoherent. Chun-li faked an orgasm, keeping her mind focused on an eighth-century lyric of sadness."
Okaaay...so that's not at all faintly disturbing.
If he were accused of a crime, would we need a trial of the facts?
In it a character called Khunbish explains a business deal while he and his lover Chun-li try out "tantric position 103" – she mounts a stuffed horse while he clings head-down to its side. "He began thrusting wildly in the general direction of her chrysanthemum but missing, his paunchy frame shuddering with the effort of remaining rigid and upside down. 'The cartel, sells, to the global market,' he panted. 'The price is inflated because production has been capped!' She began to pant in unison with him ... 'Cartel evades export controls. Market capitalisation of western miners stays low. Massive, one-way, bet'... He switched to some ancient steppe language as he ejaculated, blubbering and incoherent. Chun-li faked an orgasm, keeping her mind focused on an eighth-century lyric of sadness."
Okaaay...so that's not at all faintly disturbing.
If he were accused of a crime, would we need a trial of the facts?
I will be very interested in how JC discharges the "ceremonial" aspects of being Leader if he wins.For example we will have alot of WW1 commemoration events over the next 3 years leading to Armistice Day.How will he behave at these events;will he dress smartly;wear a poppy etc.The Press will be all over this.Similarly at set piece Parliamentary events, state funerals etc. On another point but related I have noticed the BBC is getting v uncomfortable that Corbyn could be Leader.They are completely pro Labour of course but also pro Monarchy; NATO and up to now more ambiguously pro Trident. I have noted they have started to use new descriptions for Trident such as the" nuclear weapons delivery system" when refer to it as they begin to position themselves for a Corbyn Leadership.How wil they react to his position on other issues where Labour will no longer represent their historic establishment line?
Is this the worst leadership choice since the Macedonians had to choose between Alexander's mentally ill brother or his unborn child?
Even the regency couldn't be given to Hephaestion (recently dead) or Craterus (recently sent west) and ended up with Perdiccas.
Even if Corbyn doesn't win, who else is there? Kendall seems to have a right general approach, but little personal following and very little chance. Burnham is a lightweight on the verge of tears. Cooper's voice training has reached almost comical depths and her pitch appears to be "Vote for me - I have ovaries."
A weaker pound would bloody help. If it heads up much more, I could be in the realms of posting negative contribution on a 10 million Euro job !
A weaker pound might help, however past experience suggests that it doesn't except perhaps at the margin.
For as long as I can remember I have heard the cry the pound is too strong for our exporters and for as long as I can remember the pound has sunk but our trade figures never improved either. Now take Germany, it build a strong economy based on exports and, this bit is crucial, sound money. The big German export companies managed to build their empires with a strong DeutschMark. We let the pound sink and our industries with it.
Maybe British management need to stop looking for excuses and short term profit taking and actually earn their, often, fantastic salaries.
Is this the worst leadership choice since the Macedonians had to choose between Alexander's mentally ill brother or his unborn child?
Even the regency couldn't be given to Hephaestion (recently dead) or Craterus (recently sent west) and ended up with Perdiccas.
Even if Corbyn doesn't win, who else is there? Kendall seems to have a right general approach, but little personal following and very little chance. Burnham is a lightweight on the verge of tears. Cooper's voice training has reached almost comical depths and her pitch appears to be "Vote for me - I have ovaries."
I thought she had Balls?
Balls and Ovaries - perfect candidate for a gender-conscious party.
I will be very interested in how JC discharges the "ceremonial" aspects of being Leader if he wins.For example we will have alot of WW1 commemoration events over the next 3 years leading to Armistice Day.How will he behave at these events;will he dress smartly;wear a poppy etc.The Press will be all over this.Similarly at set piece Parliamentary events, state funerals etc. On another point but related I have noticed the BBC is getting v uncomfortable that Corbyn could be Leader.They are completely pro Labour of course but also pro Monarchy; NATO and up to now more ambiguously pro Trident. I have noted they have started to use new descriptions for Trident such as the" nuclear weapons delivery system" when refer to it as they begin to position themselves for a Corbyn Leadership.How wil they react to his position on other issues where Labour will no longer represent their historic establishment line?
Mr Mason was nominated for the Bad Sex Award. Our fellow PBer @SeanT won it. He's in illustrious company. I honestly don't think it's possible to parody this.
Other TV types have been disappointingly slow to respond to the gauntlet thrown down by Kay Burley's raunchy novel First Ladies last year, but at last a challenger has emerged in the unlikely form of Newsnight economics editor Paul Mason. Mason's just-published debut novel Rare Earth ("a washed-up TV reporter stumbles on a corruption scandal in China") has moments that leave the Sky News anchor looking prim, including a standout scene distinctively fusing economics and erotica.
In it a character called Khunbish explains a business deal while he and his lover Chun-li try out "tantric position 103" – she mounts a stuffed horse while he clings head-down to its side. "He began thrusting wildly in the general direction of her chrysanthemum but missing, his paunchy frame shuddering with the effort of remaining rigid and upside down. 'The cartel, sells, to the global market,' he panted. 'The price is inflated because production has been capped!' She began to pant in unison with him ... 'Cartel evades export controls. Market capitalisation of western miners stays low. Massive, one-way, bet'... He switched to some ancient steppe language as he ejaculated, blubbering and incoherent. Chun-li faked an orgasm, keeping her mind focused on an eighth-century lyric of sadness."
Further for Ms Plato, here's Paul Mason's definition of Neoliberalism from his new book (via a comment on Richard Mutphy's site):
"By neoliberalism I mean the global capitalist system shaped around a core of neoliberal practices and institutions , themselves guided by a widespread and spontaneously reproduced ideology, and ruled by an elite which acts in a neoliberal way, whatever conflicting and moderating ideas it holds in its head - See more at: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/08/10/paul-mason-postcapitalism-my-book-of-the-year-so-far/ "
Yep. These Leftists certainly know what they are talking about. I haven't read the context in the book.
I'm sorry to say I struggled with this. Had I not been told that it was the product of PM's brilliant mind, I might have dismissed it as gobbledygook.
I had twigged (no pun) that PM had ambitions in journalism but I was unaware that he was so multi talented. Do you know if his work has been remaindered?
A weaker pound would bloody help. If it heads up much more, I could be in the realms of posting negative contribution on a 10 million Euro job !
A weaker pound might help, however past experience suggests that it doesn't except perhaps at the margin.
For as long as I can remember I have heard the cry the pound is too strong for our exporters and for as long as I can remember the pound has sunk but our trade figures never improved either. Now take Germany, it build a strong economy based on exports and, this bit is crucial, sound money. The big German export companies managed to build their empires with a strong DeutschMark. We let the pound sink and our industries with it.
Maybe British management need to stop looking for excuses and short term profit taking and actually earn their, often, fantastic salaries.
Mr Llama I can't speak for the entire British export industry, but it's the appreciation of the pound which is going to sting us (And others) this year. If it had been 1.40 Euro forever more, things would have been better.
I had twigged (no pun) that PM had ambitions in journalism but I was unaware that he was so multi talented. Do you know if his work has been remaindered?
I will be very interested in how JC discharges the "ceremonial" aspects of being Leader if he wins.For example we will have alot of WW1 commemoration events over the next 3 years leading to Armistice Day.How will he behave at these events;will he dress smartly;wear a poppy etc.The Press will be all over this.Similarly at set piece Parliamentary events, state funerals etc. On another point but related I have noticed the BBC is getting v uncomfortable that Corbyn could be Leader.They are completely pro Labour of course but also pro Monarchy; NATO and up to now more ambiguously pro Trident. I have noted they have started to use new descriptions for Trident such as the" nuclear weapons delivery system" when refer to it as they begin to position themselves for a Corbyn Leadership.How wil they react to his position on other issues where Labour will no longer represent their historic establishment line?
As I recall Foot got castigated for his donkey jacket which was arguably more scruffy than disrespectful and thereafter smartened his act up. Thanks for the photo .
Is this the worst leadership choice since the Macedonians had to choose between Alexander's mentally ill brother or his unborn child?
Even the regency couldn't be given to Hephaestion (recently dead) or Craterus (recently sent west) and ended up with Perdiccas.
Even if Corbyn doesn't win, who else is there? Kendall seems to have a right general approach, but little personal following and very little chance. Burnham is a lightweight on the verge of tears. Cooper's voice training has reached almost comical depths and her pitch appears to be "Vote for me - I have ovaries."
I thought she had Balls?
Balls and Ovaries - perfect candidate for a gender-conscious party.
Pardon the vulgarity but she has one more attribute to make the full set, assuming that "prick" is inadmissible.
I will be very interested in how JC discharges the "ceremonial" aspects of being Leader if he wins.For example we will have alot of WW1 commemoration events over the next 3 years leading to Armistice Day.How will he behave at these events;will he dress smartly;wear a poppy etc.The Press will be all over this.Similarly at set piece Parliamentary events, state funerals etc. On another point but related I have noticed the BBC is getting v uncomfortable that Corbyn could be Leader.They are completely pro Labour of course but also pro Monarchy; NATO and up to now more ambiguously pro Trident. I have noted they have started to use new descriptions for Trident such as the" nuclear weapons delivery system" when refer to it as they begin to position themselves for a Corbyn Leadership.How wil they react to his position on other issues where Labour will no longer represent their historic establishment line?
As I recall Foot got castigated for his donkey jacket which was arguably more scruffy than disrespectful and thereafter smartened his act up. Thanks for the photo .
To be fair to Foot it wasn't a donkey jacket but a short coat, and quite an expensive one. But it made him stand out which wasn't the done thing.
Jeremy Corbyn is today revealed as the first choice of ordinary Londoners to lead the Labour Party — defying claims that his appeal is limited to Left-wingers and trade unionists.
An exclusive YouGov poll for the Evening Standard reveals he has more support among the London public than his nearest rivals, Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper, put together.
Moreover, he is more popular with the better-off ABC1 social classes, among both younger and older people, and those who voted Ukip or Liberal Democrat at the general election.
Shadow health secretary Mr Burnham came second on 21 and Ms Cooper, the shadow home secretary, third on 20 per cent. Liz Kendall, the Blairite candidate, trailed at 12 per cent.
Among people who voted Labour at the May election, Mr Corbyn enjoys a clear majority with 52 per cent.
Is this the worst leadership choice since the Macedonians had to choose between Alexander's mentally ill brother or his unborn child?
Even the regency couldn't be given to Hephaestion (recently dead) or Craterus (recently sent west) and ended up with Perdiccas.
Even if Corbyn doesn't win, who else is there? Kendall seems to have a right general approach, but little personal following and very little chance. Burnham is a lightweight on the verge of tears. Cooper's voice training has reached almost comical depths and her pitch appears to be "Vote for me - I have ovaries."
I thought she had Balls?
Balls and Ovaries - perfect candidate for a gender-conscious party.
Pardon the vulgarity but she has one more attribute to make the full set, assuming that "prick" is inadmissible.
True - and her entire campaign has been a cock-up as well so we have a perfect set.
(Strictly speaking, that's a reference to old flintlock firearms having trigger problems rather than to anything racier, but it works in this context too.)
I will be very interested in how JC discharges the "ceremonial" aspects of being Leader if he wins.For example we will have alot of WW1 commemoration events over the next 3 years leading to Armistice Day.How will he behave at these events;will he dress smartly;wear a poppy etc.The Press will be all over this.Similarly at set piece Parliamentary events, state funerals etc. On another point but related I have noticed the BBC is getting v uncomfortable that Corbyn could be Leader.They are completely pro Labour of course but also pro Monarchy; NATO and up to now more ambiguously pro Trident. I have noted they have started to use new descriptions for Trident such as the" nuclear weapons delivery system" when refer to it as they begin to position themselves for a Corbyn Leadership.How wil they react to his position on other issues where Labour will no longer represent their historic establishment line?
As I recall Foot got castigated for his donkey jacket which was arguably more scruffy than disrespectful and thereafter smartened his act up. Thanks for the photo .
Foot's "donkey jacket" was apparently an expensive designer garment bought for him by his wife.
Bit like the poor guy who was castigated for his "sexist" shirt at the time the Philae lander touched down on the comet - it was also bought for him by his wife, so he'd have something smart if he was on the telly....
I was giving this some thought early this morning. Surely there are the following possibilities:
[snip for length restrictions]
It's a good analysis. The rancour is mostly coming from the New Labour old guard - Blair himself, Johnson, Straw, and so on. Even they are being careful to focus on the policies rather than the individuals, but they certainly think what's happening is bonkers (Blair's intervention is however seen as a bit OTT even by the Blairites that I know.)
On the left, apart from the usual CIF zealots and other random internet people, I don't see much venom, and none at all from Corbyn. Plato seems to feel that there is a big purge pending - that is not Corbyn's style, and IMO very unlikely. Most of the younger MPs are not being particularly vocal either way, and will go with whatever the flow turns out to be unless it turns out to be disastrous. There seems no appetite for an SDP Mk II, but I can see some high-profile people simply deciding to call it a day.
It would seem a bit odd for Labour activist to fill in one ballot paper for Corbyn and then a few seconds later fill in another one for Jowell. Even if they had written off the 2020 General Election but felt they were in with a shout of capturing City Hall it is hard to make sense of it. Then again, trying to apply the sense of Labour Party members in order to formulate a prediction strikes me as imprudent."
London members mostly aren't seeing the mayoral selection in left-right terms. Diane Abbott is clearly left-wing and equally clearly isn't winning. Everyone else is vaguely centre-left, and the emails we're getting from them could be interchanged without much policy difference.
A man who allegedly threatened a Ukip MEP with a gun at Dunkirk was actually the suspected ringleader of a British criminal gang, a police source has revealed.
Mike Hookem, MEP for Yorkshire & North Lincolnshire, said earlier this week he had been threatened by a "migrant" in the French port, adding "hope police find these criminals, we can't have them in the UK".
A weaker pound would bloody help. If it heads up much more, I could be in the realms of posting negative contribution on a 10 million Euro job !
A weaker pound might help, however past experience suggests that it doesn't except perhaps at the margin.
For as long as I can remember I have heard the cry the pound is too strong for our exporters and for as long as I can remember the pound has sunk but our trade figures never improved either. Now take Germany, it build a strong economy based on exports and, this bit is crucial, sound money. The big German export companies managed to build their empires with a strong DeutschMark. We let the pound sink and our industries with it.
Maybe British management need to stop looking for excuses and short term profit taking and actually earn their, often, fantastic salaries.
Although over the last 20+ years, the pound has been broadly stable against the Euro and US Dollar, albeit within very wide bands. You could have got today's £1=$1.56 back in the 1980s and at various points since. Likewise, the £1=€1.40 on today's exchange is almost identical to the €1.42 is was on its launch in 1999.
A weaker pound would bloody help. If it heads up much more, I could be in the realms of posting negative contribution on a 10 million Euro job !
A weaker pound might help, however past experience suggests that it doesn't except perhaps at the margin.
For as long as I can remember I have heard the cry the pound is too strong for our exporters and for as long as I can remember the pound has sunk but our trade figures never improved either. Now take Germany, it build a strong economy based on exports and, this bit is crucial, sound money. The big German export companies managed to build their empires with a strong DeutschMark. We let the pound sink and our industries with it.
Maybe British management need to stop looking for excuses and short term profit taking and actually earn their, often, fantastic salaries.
Mr Llama I can't speak for the entire British export industry, but it's the appreciation of the pound which is going to sting us (And others) this year. If it had been 1.40 Euro forever more, things would have been better.
I can appreciate that, Mr. Star, and your business maybe better than most. Taken as a whole though British industry has not improved its export record even when the pound has sunk. In recent years the pound dropped by 20% against the Euro but how much improvement was there in the trade deficit?
No, it won't do. If the bloody Germans could manage to build an export led economy with a strong and appreciating currency then so can we. Our so called captains of industry need to start earning their money.
To be fair to Foot it wasn't a donkey jacket but a short coat, and quite an expensive one. But it made him stand out which wasn't the done thing.
Apparently his wife was especially upset as she had picked that coat carefully to try and make him look a bit smarter. He also said later that the Queen Mother had complimented him on it, saying it was a 'smart, sensible coat', to which he added, 'I'd rather take the Queen Mother's opinion than that dreadful woman Thatcher's.'
Jeremy Corbyn is today revealed as the first choice of ordinary Londoners to lead the Labour Party — defying claims that his appeal is limited to Left-wingers and trade unionists.
An exclusive YouGov poll for the Evening Standard reveals he has more support among the London public than his nearest rivals, Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper, put together.
Moreover, he is more popular with the better-off ABC1 social classes, among both younger and older people, and those who voted Ukip or Liberal Democrat at the general election.
Shadow health secretary Mr Burnham came second on 21 and Ms Cooper, the shadow home secretary, third on 20 per cent. Liz Kendall, the Blairite candidate, trailed at 12 per cent.
Among people who voted Labour at the May election, Mr Corbyn enjoys a clear majority with 52 per cent.
London voters have never been as unrepresentative of the rest of the country as they are now. Labour won the popular vote in London by 8.8 percentage points while losing by 6.6 points overall in 2015. In 1992 by contrast the Tories led in the capital by 8.2 points compared to 7.6 overall.
@georgeeaton: Ken Livingstone tells me that big influx of Corbyn supporters will help Sadiq Khan win mayoral nomination. 90% crossover in phonebanking.
London members mostly aren't seeing the mayoral selection in left-right terms.
London members might not be, but I'm not sure you can be confident that the £3 vote-baggers and the union recruitees are seeing it the same way. Tessa Jowell is as Blairite as anyone; the question is, have the selectorate noticed that, and, if so, who will they prefer?
During GE2015 the main message from the SNP from day one of the campaign was, vote SNP to ensure Scotland's interests are best protected at Westminster
..and the actual effect of the campaign was the lowest level of Scottish influence at Westminster in living memory (or longer)
Genius.
I think it will be a couple of years before we can pass judgment on the SNP's influence at Westminster. 100 days in the SNP have achieved the following:
- They're the catalyst which looks like reshaping British politics. - Pretty much destroyed the LibDems as a political force (other than in the H of L !!) - Provided Corbyn with a playbook of how to build an anti-establishment party. - Shown up how wafer thin Cameron's majority is. - Certainly livened up the House of Commons - Punctured the EVEL bubble - Delivered a demographically diverse group of MPs none of whom have been to Oxbridge and only 5% were privately educated.
Their main achievement is forcing the Tory party to face its EU referendum demons, which clearly has the scope to tear the party apart - whatever the result.
A moderate Labour pressure group dubbed “the Resistance” is being formed by two top shadow cabinet members as Jeremy Corbyn pulls ahead in the leadership race, the Evening Standard can reveal.
Chuka Umunna and Tristram Hunt have written privately to Labour MPs calling on them to meet four days before the leadership result is announced. It is being seen by MPs as a rival to Mr Corbyn’s Left-wing platform and the start of guerrilla warfare for Labour’s soul.
Mr Corbyn today issued plans to give more say over policy to party members, who are typically more Left-leaning than its MPs.
Jeremy Corbyn is today revealed as the first choice of ordinary Londoners to lead the Labour Party — defying claims that his appeal is limited to Left-wingers and trade unionists.
An exclusive YouGov poll for the Evening Standard reveals he has more support among the London public than his nearest rivals, Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper, put together.
Moreover, he is more popular with the better-off ABC1 social classes, among both younger and older people, and those who voted Ukip or Liberal Democrat at the general election.
Shadow health secretary Mr Burnham came second on 21 and Ms Cooper, the shadow home secretary, third on 20 per cent. Liz Kendall, the Blairite candidate, trailed at 12 per cent.
Among people who voted Labour at the May election, Mr Corbyn enjoys a clear majority with 52 per cent.
And if translated into votes at the General election, that would win them perhaps 2 extra seats. Meanwhile, if we assume they lose votes elsewhere in England, they could easily drop 40 (can anyone see them holding Chester under Corbyn)?
A poll done outside London - say, across Staffordshire or Nottinghamshire, where you have a very wide range of constituencies - would probably tell us more about his chances at a general election.
When I see a poll putting him on course to retake seats in those places, or ones like Swindon North and North Warwickshire, I'll know that we have to take him seriously as a possible PM.
- They're the catalyst which looks like reshaping British politics. - Pretty much destroyed the LibDems as a political force (other than in the H of L !!)
ROFL
The biggest single issue so far was the debate secured by a Liberal Democrat, the man the SNP want to remove from his post, because they were too inept to do it.
@georgeeaton: Ken Livingstone tells me that big influx of Corbyn supporters will help Sadiq Khan win mayoral nomination. 90% crossover in phonebanking.
George Osborne really must be wondering what good deed he did in the distant past to get all this good stuff dumped on his lap at once. Can't have been since he entered Parliament!
A moderate Labour pressure group dubbed “the Resistance” is being formed by two top shadow cabinet members as Jeremy Corbyn pulls ahead in the leadership race, the Evening Standard can reveal.
Chuka Umunna and Tristram Hunt have written privately to Labour MPs calling on them to meet four days before the leadership result is announced. It is being seen by MPs as a rival to Mr Corbyn’s Left-wing platform and the start of guerrilla warfare for Labour’s soul.
Mr Corbyn today issued plans to give more say over policy to party members, who are typically more Left-leaning than its MPs.
The people's flag is deepest pink, It's not as red as you might think, White collar workers stand and cheer, The Labour Government is here, We'll change the country bit by bit, So nobody will notice it, And just to prove we're still sincere, We'll sing the Red Flag once a year.
Unfotunately "Hearing will be abandoned if Janner 'distressed' District Judge Emma Arbuthnot confirms that, if Lord Janner shows signs of extreme distress, she will abandon the hearing immediately." Telegraph.
So all Janner has to do is shout and scream the moment he enters. One last performance?
- a demographically diverse group of MPs Not a single English or Welsh MP representing the SNP - not diverse at all.
Haven't they just had a Chinese councillor walk out, alleging racism?
With regard to education, that probably reflects as much as anything else the comparatively small size of the private sector in Scottish education, plus the tuition fees imbalance that rewards (or at any rate, for many years rewarded - not sure if it's still in place) Scottish students for going to Scottish universities, rather than ones in England.
@georgeeaton: Ken Livingstone tells me that big influx of Corbyn supporters will help Sadiq Khan win mayoral nomination. 90% crossover in phonebanking.
Back Zak for the mayoralty then - Khan can no more win than an Irishman could during the 80s - YG polling agrees.
Mr. Eagles, terrible news if Khan wins. Ethnic quotas in the workplace are despicable.
I've told you before, as you're white, you have no idea how hard it is to be a non-white in the UK, I mean, more people would be uncomfortable with a Muslim London Mayor than a Gay London Mayor.
A vote for Khan is a vote for fairness and equality, a vote for anyone else is a vote for a continuing the British Apartheid/Jim Crow
The people's flag is deepest pink, It's not as red as you might think, White collar workers stand and cheer, The Labour Government is here, We'll change the country bit by bit, So nobody will notice it, And just to prove we're still sincere, We'll sing the Red Flag once a year.
@georgeeaton: Ken Livingstone tells me that big influx of Corbyn supporters will help Sadiq Khan win mayoral nomination. 90% crossover in phonebanking.
On a technical note, take SkyBet's 6-4 for Khan to win the nomination (Or at least fill up first) rather than the 5.1 with Betfair for the mayoralty as he's a slight underdog to Zac in the run off polling.
the tuition fees imbalance that rewards (or at any rate, for many years rewarded - not sure if it's still in place) Scottish students for going to Scottish universities, rather than ones in England.
The tuition fee imbalance is still in place. Scottish students go free (in theory) while English students pay, which is why Scottish Universities are restricting the number of places for freeloaders home grown talent in favour of paying customers
Mr. Eagles, terrible news if Khan wins. Ethnic quotas in the workplace are despicable.
I've told you before, as you're white, you have no idea how hard it is to be a non-white in the UK, I mean, more people would be uncomfortable with a Muslim London Mayor than a Gay London Mayor.
A vote for Khan is a vote for fairness and equality, a vote for anyone else is a vote for a continuing the British Apartheid/Jim Crow
Suspect a someone of Chinese or Indian heritage would quite easily win the mayoralty if they were any good.
Comments
You're a gent, Sir.
This has all happened before, but in the 1980s there was a wonderful bedrock of decent labour people who did not support or want the militants and were determined to fight.
Is that bedrock still there? I don;t know labour well at all, but there must be doubts.
Even the regency couldn't be given to Hephaestion (recently dead) or Craterus (recently sent west) and ended up with Perdiccas.
Even if Corbyn doesn't win, who else is there? Kendall seems to have a right general approach, but little personal following and very little chance. Burnham is a lightweight on the verge of tears. Cooper's voice training has reached almost comical depths and her pitch appears to be "Vote for me - I have ovaries."
1) JC wins. The losers and their supporters back him, and the party shuffles slightly / lurches hard to the left.
2) JC wins. The losers (the majority of MPs) cause all sorts of havoc for his leadership and the party is seen as more split than it was in 2006/7 under the Brownite coup.
3) JC wins. The losers organise a putsch and the party splits. This will leave whichever side of the party (nominally JC vs Blairites) which does not inherit the organisational structure with massive problems. If it is the Blairite wing, they will also face positional problems in the political spectrum. We end up with another SDP-style situation.
4) ABC wins. The leftists and JC supporters back ABC, and the party, with a slightly more leftist slant, might be stronger than before.
5) ABC wins. The JC wing start causing large problems for the party; and we end up with another Militant-style split.
Unless that statement is just for public consumption given how high feelings are running at the moment?
I find very often that there is gentle agenda-pushing even on its major topics, in particular attempts to play up or play down key arguments and the habit of 'quote mining' to support points of view, or randomly removing sourced materials because they reveal information that discredits the subject or at least, shows them in an unflattering light. That may be simply because my areas of expertise are in fairly controversial topics (as some on here may have noted)!
I have tended to take the view that it is a worthy guide to further reading, but nothing else. Since some of the articles still don't have footnotes, they seem to me to be pretty useless.
Well there have been many comparisons since, but the article in Nature is the most famous:
http://www.cnet.com/news/study-wikipedia-as-accurate-as-britannica/
That was a full ten years ago.
If everyone simply used Wikipedia as a springboard to reading the materials themselves, we'd be perfectly happy!
That would surely make it the worst leadership election in the history of leadership elections.
Trade balances
EU trade:
Goods: -£21.8bn
Services: +£4.6bn
Overall: -£17.1bn
Non-EU trade:
Goods: -£8.6bn
Services: +£18.3bn
Overall: +£9.6bn
Ignoring imports, the EU now accounts for 43% of our exports. This is down from 53% in Q1 2005.
(2) bluntly seems the likeliest outcome to me - all disruption short of rupture.
I think there was a study specifically about science which concluded it was fairly credible, but I don't remember wher I read that. Cheers!
As for the left being so hate filled, have you read the newspapers? For my entire life I have had to endure every left wing politician of just about any hue being demonised continually. It never stops. Reading the media is so distorting you have no idea what is actually going on. But John Major can refer to a group of his MPs as 'bastards' and everyone says what a nice guy he is. The reality is that given that it is a contest for the top job in politics from the point of view of the participants, the Labour leadership election has been remarkably civil and there has been very little name calling in general and none at all from the most left wing candidate.
I'm sorry to say I struggled with this. Had I not been told that it was the product of PM's brilliant mind, I might have dismissed it as gobbledygook.
Major was referring to those who spent all their time trying to undermine him. I think he was quite correct.
I'm glad to say that being Wet was about worst form of insult that the Tories used about each other. I'm a very Wet Tory who voted Labour and LibDem.
Supporting him:
Diane Abbott (fanatical left)
Ronnie Campbell (leftie disgusted by blairites)
Richard Burgon (hard leftie)
Dennis Skinner (veteran left)
Jon Trickett (leftie)
Kelvin Hopkins (eurosceptic and homoeopathy support, so probably crazy leftie)
Imran Hussain (at a corbyn rally introduced corbyn as "next PM")
John McDonnell ('would swim through vomit to oppose sickening welfare bill')
Grahame Morris (“a very strong prospect” of Mr Corbyn winning the contest)
Michael Meacher ("The arrogance and intolerance of the Blairites is breathtaking." his blog)
Cat Smith ("Prior to entering Parliament she worked for Jeremy Corbyn MP" wikipedia)
Rebecca Long-Bailey (Welfare Rebel)
Sarah Champion (?)
Clive Efford (?)
Rushanara Ali (deputy (?))
Jo Cox (?)
Clive Lewis (?)
Kate Osamor (?)
Catherine West (?)
Jon Cruddas ("the Tories didn't win despite austerity, they won because of it")
Margaret Beckett (I was a moron to nominate JC, voting for AB)
Louise Haigh (voting for AB)
Tulip Siddiq (voting for AB)
Dawn Butler (voting for AB)
Emily Thornberry (voting for YC)
Andrew Smith (voting for YC)
Rupa Huq (voting for YC)
Gordon Marsden (voting for YC)
Neil Coyle (voting YC or LK)
Gareth Thomas (voting for LK)
Huw Irranca-Davies (not voting for JC)
Chi Onwurah (not voting for JC)
Frank Field (not voting for JC)
David Lammy (mayoral, not voting for JC)
Sadiq Khan (mayoral, not voting for JC)
As for Hannan, what is the core Conservative belief that you don't think he believes in?
I imagine however it is easier to check matters of fact in science rather than the extensive level of interpretation in History, although there are facts in history that can be checked (and are not always truthfully presented there either). Which is why I recommended the alteration.
It can be used for contemporary definitions - but be careful! These can be wrongly edited too just as a form of fun. For example, see here.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/mediamonkeyblog/2012/jan/23/newsnight-paul-mason
Will be permitted to enter via side door...
You are living in a dreamworld. Nobody in the 1980s was disappeared from the Labour Party for not applauding loudly enough. The Militant Tendency were Trotskyists who were trying to operate in the Labour Party. Nobody in the real Labour Party wanted them once they realised what they were up to. They were expelled from the party following due process and with support from the left of the party as much as anybody else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Campaign_Group
If he were accused of a crime, would we need a trial of the facts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suVB3YGIUk0
My husband used to think about spiders - he wasn't an intellectual.
'In French with English lyrics.'
Two seconds later: 'Sorry the original is actually Hungarian.'
if he wins.For example we will have alot of WW1 commemoration events over the next 3 years leading to Armistice Day.How will he behave at these events;will he dress smartly;wear
a poppy etc.The Press will be all over this.Similarly at set piece Parliamentary events,
state funerals etc.
On another point but related I have noticed the BBC is getting v uncomfortable that Corbyn could be Leader.They are completely pro Labour of course but also pro Monarchy;
NATO and up to now more ambiguously pro Trident. I have noted they have started to use new descriptions for Trident such as the" nuclear weapons delivery system" when refer
to it as they begin to position themselves for a Corbyn Leadership.How wil they react to his position on other issues where Labour will no longer represent their historic establishment line?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/33575449
For as long as I can remember I have heard the cry the pound is too strong for our exporters and for as long as I can remember the pound has sunk but our trade figures never improved either. Now take Germany, it build a strong economy based on exports and, this bit is crucial, sound money. The big German export companies managed to build their empires with a strong DeutschMark. We let the pound sink and our industries with it.
Maybe British management need to stop looking for excuses and short term profit taking and actually earn their, often, fantastic salaries.
Better than Foot?
Son of Foot?
Is that a Hamas badge behind the poppy?
I do think Nick does have one good point, though: if Corbyn is going to win, then a narrow win is the worst of all worlds for Labour.
I had twigged (no pun) that PM had ambitions in journalism but I was unaware that he was so multi talented. Do you know if his work has been remaindered?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M0pbNtH5qUl2L4peKQGcz038gA7Tkz7US7t-E4t2eN4/edit?usp=sharing
so if any other MPs do make their stance clear feel free to contribute
BBC have their 'exclusive' interview with Burnham attacking Corbyn
Sky are running with yesterday's clip of Burnham saying they shouldn't attack Corbyn
An exclusive YouGov poll for the Evening Standard reveals he has more support among the London public than his nearest rivals, Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper, put together.
Moreover, he is more popular with the better-off ABC1 social classes, among both younger and older people, and those who voted Ukip or Liberal Democrat at the general election.
Shadow health secretary Mr Burnham came second on 21 and Ms Cooper, the shadow home secretary, third on 20 per cent. Liz Kendall, the Blairite candidate, trailed at 12 per cent.
Among people who voted Labour at the May election, Mr Corbyn enjoys a clear majority with 52 per cent.
http://bit.ly/1INlciS
(Strictly speaking, that's a reference to old flintlock firearms having trigger problems rather than to anything racier, but it works in this context too.)
by his wife.
Bit like the poor guy who was castigated for his "sexist" shirt at the time the Philae lander touched down on the comet - it was also bought for him by his wife, so he'd have something smart if he was on the telly....
On the left, apart from the usual CIF zealots and other random internet people, I don't see much venom, and none at all from Corbyn. Plato seems to feel that there is a big purge pending - that is not Corbyn's style, and IMO very unlikely. Most of the younger MPs are not being particularly vocal either way, and will go with whatever the flow turns out to be unless it turns out to be disastrous. There seems no appetite for an SDP Mk II, but I can see some high-profile people simply deciding to call it a day. London members mostly aren't seeing the mayoral selection in left-right terms. Diane Abbott is clearly left-wing and equally clearly isn't winning. Everyone else is vaguely centre-left, and the emails we're getting from them could be interchanged without much policy difference.
A man who allegedly threatened a Ukip MEP with a gun at Dunkirk was actually the suspected ringleader of a British criminal gang, a police source has revealed.
Mike Hookem, MEP for Yorkshire & North Lincolnshire, said earlier this week he had been threatened by a "migrant" in the French port, adding "hope police find these criminals, we can't have them in the UK".
http://huff.to/1EroZy8
No, it won't do. If the bloody Germans could manage to build an export led economy with a strong and appreciating currency then so can we. Our so called captains of industry need to start earning their money.
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-information-office/m13.pdf
@georgeeaton: Ken Livingstone tells me that big influx of Corbyn supporters will help Sadiq Khan win mayoral nomination. 90% crossover in phonebanking.
- They're the catalyst which looks like reshaping British politics.
- Pretty much destroyed the LibDems as a political force (other than in the H of L !!)
- Provided Corbyn with a playbook of how to build an anti-establishment party.
- Shown up how wafer thin Cameron's majority is.
- Certainly livened up the House of Commons
- Punctured the EVEL bubble
- Delivered a demographically diverse group of MPs none of whom have been to Oxbridge and only 5% were privately educated.
Their main achievement is forcing the Tory party to face its EU referendum demons, which clearly has the scope to tear the party apart - whatever the result.
A poll done outside London - say, across Staffordshire or Nottinghamshire, where you have a very wide range of constituencies - would probably tell us more about his chances at a general election.
When I see a poll putting him on course to retake seats in those places, or ones like Swindon North and North Warwickshire, I'll know that we have to take him seriously as a possible PM.
The biggest single issue so far was the debate secured by a Liberal Democrat, the man the SNP want to remove from his post, because they were too inept to do it.
Mr. Eagles, terrible news if Khan wins. Ethnic quotas in the workplace are despicable.
Resistance is futile!!
Well if he wears that again the Red Tops will go ballistic
- They're the catalyst which looks like reshaping British politics-
Yeah - a return to Con hegemony.
- Pretty much destroyed the LibDems as a political force (other than in the H of L !!)
Won Twickenham did they ?
- Provided Corbyn with a playbook of how to build an anti-establishment party.
Vile twitter abuse etc ?
- Shown up how wafer thin Cameron's majority is.
By shoring up the NI unionst votes.
- Certainly livened up the House of Commons
Our democracy needed bringing down to reality show level
- Punctured the EVEL bubble
Bit early to make that claim
- a demographically diverse group of MPs
Not a single English or Welsh MP representing the SNP - not diverse at all.
It's not as red as you might think,
White collar workers stand and cheer,
The Labour Government is here,
We'll change the country bit by bit,
So nobody will notice it,
And just to prove we're still sincere,
We'll sing the Red Flag once a year.
That is one way of reshaping democracy right enough
"Hearing will be abandoned if Janner 'distressed'
District Judge Emma Arbuthnot confirms that, if Lord Janner shows signs of extreme distress, she will abandon the hearing immediately." Telegraph.
So all Janner has to do is shout and scream the moment he enters. One last performance?
Just for a 40 second appearance.
With regard to education, that probably reflects as much as anything else the comparatively small size of the private sector in Scottish education, plus the tuition fees imbalance that rewards (or at any rate, for many years rewarded - not sure if it's still in place) Scottish students for going to Scottish universities, rather than ones in England.
A vote for Khan is a vote for fairness and equality, a vote for anyone else is a vote for a continuing the British Apartheid/Jim Crow
freeloadershome grown talent in favour of paying customersBut internal polling for the Burnham campaign, seen by PoliticsHome, suggests the race may be closer than previously thought.
It puts Mr Corbyn ahead on 35%, Mr Burnham on 31%, Yvette Cooper on 23% and Liz Kendall on 11%.
http://bit.ly/1UHlywR
7/7 and Lee Rigby are factors.