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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    Tactless to remember this story on this day, but it does worry me about the poor knowledge some of our MPs have.

    Finally (thanks to Iain Macintosh), Daniel Finkelstein in Saturday's Times (pay wall), recalls William Hague's visit to Japan:

    He went with a group of MPs, and one of them had a pressing question to ask the mayor of Hiroshima. “Everywhere else we’ve been in Japan,” said the MP, “the streets have been higgledy-piggledy. Yet here in Hiroshima your streets are laid out in a well-organised grid. How did you achieve that?”

    The mayor paused and quietly responded: “We had some help. From the Americans.”

    http://ind.pn/1M7Z5WJ

    Oh good grief...

    Have pre-tour briefings gone out of the window? Don't just stick a business card in your pocket, don't forget to bow, don't mention the A-bomb?

    What a fool.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Do I miss the last two hours of today's cricket and go watch Mission: Impossible Rogue Nation?

    Yeah go on
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Doethur, that is a very dense moment from Hague.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Based on a sub-sample of 193 unweighted Londoners.

    33% of Kippers would be unhappy if they had a gay kid, whereas 29% of Londoners would be unhappy.

    http://bit.ly/1KTh989

    In that case I'd like to see the % of people who would be happy, and also the break down between men and women. Completely pointless figures, no idea why people are interested.

  • One of my alternate histories I like to think about is this.

    Overlord is a failure, would that mean they'd amp up the Manhattan Project, and start nuking German cities in 1945, or would they have just waited for The Soviet Union to defeat the Germans?
  • Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Diverse, Multicultural... and homophobic

    "London’s image as gay-friendly is dented today by a poll showing people in the capital are less likely than other Britons to be supportive of a gay or transgender child.

    A YouGov poll for PinkNews found Londoners over five times more likely than Scots or Northerners to say they would reject a gay child.

    PinkNews chief executive Benjamin Cohen commented: “This polling is eye-opening as it goes against the widely accepted notion that London is the most tolerant part of the country when it comes to LGBT issues.

    “Beyond the liberal, metropolitan elite, there are clearly many people in the capital who would react negatively to their child being gay or transgender. This shows the need for greater support structures, education and awareness to help families foster an environment that allows children to come out comfortably.” "

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/londoners-less-likely-than-other-brits-to-support-gay-or-transgender-children-poll-shows-10119293.html

    That's really sad - I don't understand people who'd reject their own child because of those reasons.
    Does the poll merely suggest they would be unhappy, (which would be true of plenty of parents) or does it suggest they'd chuck them out (which would be much less common)?

    Edit: In fact the poll suggests that the vast majority of parents of gay children (even those who were unhappy about it) would be supportive of them.
    On your second point - I didn't know that. I was going by the quoted part of the article which said: A YouGov poll for PinkNews found Londoners over five times more likely than Scots or Northerners to say they would reject a gay child.

    On your first point - I don't get why parents would be unhappy, either. Surely all that matters is that your child is happy, confident, healthy and successful as they can be?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547

    Based on a sub-sample of 193 unweighted Londoners.

    33% of Kippers would be unhappy if they had a gay kid, whereas 29% of Londoners would be unhappy.

    http://bit.ly/1KTh989

    In that case I'd like to see the % of people who would be happy, and also the break down between men and women. Completely pointless figures, no idea why people are interested.

    I don't think it's a very important finding. If you were to ask if parents would be "happy" if their children became atheists, or rejected their political values, you'd probably get similar numbers.
  • Mr. Doethur, that is a very dense moment from Hague.

    It wasn't William Hague who said it, it was an MP who went with him.

    William has a fabulous knowledge of history.
  • One of my alternate histories I like to think about is this.

    Overlord is a failure, would that mean they'd amp up the Manhattan Project, and start nuking German cities in 1945, or would they have just waited for The Soviet Union to defeat the Germans?

    Paris Blockade of 1948? Paris Wall goes up in 1961? :)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Eagles, ah, my mistake. It did seem a bit David Milibandesque for Hague.

    Mr. F, isn't apostasy (from Islam) meant to be punishable by death?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    One of my alternate histories I like to think about is this.

    Overlord is a failure, would that mean they'd amp up the Manhattan Project, and start nuking German cities in 1945, or would they have just waited for The Soviet Union to defeat the Germans?

    Hard to imagine that the Soviet Union would not still have invaded Germany by about 1946 at the latest, given the huge logistical advantages they had. Also don't forget that Italy was overrun in 1943 and that provided another way in if necessary. Overlord shortened the war, but it wouldn't have been necessary to nuke Germany to defeat them given the immense and not very defensible land frontiers they had.
  • DavidL said:

    No doubt it is a lack of imagination on my part but I have always had real problems in understanding why President Truman had any choice but to use the atomic bomb.

    It had been developed at truly staggering expense. It was a chance to finish an exceptionally brutal war and save millions of lives. And was it really that much worse than the fire bombing of Tokyo (or Dresden)?

    I have read a few biographies of Truman and I don't think there is much evidence that he gave it a second's thought. And quite right too.

    I think it was Churchill who said that 'moderation in war is the definition of imbecility' - Truman's choice was very simple - hundreds of thousands of dead Japanese, or that plus hundreds of thousands of dead Americans.....
    I think the moderation in war is imbecility quote was actually from Admiral John Fisher.
    Of "Baltic Plan" fame?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Project
    That's the chap. Mind you, by the time he came up with that one he was getting on a bit and possibly not very well.
    Apparently, "Jackie" Fisher was prone to seasickness all his life!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    England should aim for a 250 lead by close of play. Still 30 overs to go.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    edited August 2015

    Mr. Doethur, that is a very dense moment from Hague.

    I don't think it was Hague himself, in fairness.

    EDIT - have just seen further conversations. Is to 'David Miliband' a new verb for being a bit vacuous and saying something that looks a bit silly? :smile:
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Ms Apocalypse: On your first point - I don't get why parents would be unhappy, either. Surely all that matters is that your child is happy, confident, healthy and successful as they can be?

    To most people yes, but that doesn't account for religious or cultural prejudices.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Joe Root 62, Australia 60...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Do I miss the last two hours of today's cricket and go watch Mission: Impossible Rogue Nation?

    Its jolly good fun - to be fair its little more than a series of high octane stunts strung together - but Tom Hollander steals it......
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,166
    edited August 2015
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:


    Few societies practice Total War (the fighting on the Eastern Front came closest). Total War would mean executing the entire adult male population of the country you were fighting against. To that extent, moderation in war is both widespread and sensible.

    But, there really isn't much of an argument against the use of the A-bombs.

    Except, perhaps, that a lot of people died from radiation long after hostilities ceased?
    But, is that worse than people dying while the Allies conquer the Japanese Empire, or wait for the Japanese to surrender?
    That's true.

    One thing we seemed to have forgotten is: If hostilities had gone beyond August 1945, would there have been, or still be, a Soviet-dominated "Republic of North Japan" or a "Tokyo Wall"?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    One of my alternate histories I like to think about is this.

    Overlord is a failure, would that mean they'd amp up the Manhattan Project, and start nuking German cities in 1945, or would they have just waited for The Soviet Union to defeat the Germans?

    I don't think was any question of being able to "Amp up" the Manhattan Project - it was working flat out already. WHen they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima they still were not sure it would work, that were that far on the edge of known science and that short of testing.

    So if Overlord had failed then plans would have been made for a second attempt, probably in the spring of 1945, by which time the Sovs would probably have done all the heavy lifting despite having also to face the divisions released from the West.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    I thought some very old wars were almost total. Two sides started hand-to-hand combat, one side looked like losing and they began to run away. Cue wholesale slaughter of losing male population.

    Towton looked a bit nasty but that was just Yorkies.

    Perhaps Mt Dancer or Eagles can enlighten?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216


    The mayor paused and quietly responded: “We had some help. From the Americans.”

    Or as one of my more direct colleagues used to note when visiting German cities...'Hmm, town planning by the RAF....'
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    AndyJS said:

    England should aim for a 250 lead by close of play. Still 30 overs to go.

    250 o_O !!

    I'd be happy with a lead of 200.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Do I miss the last two hours of today's cricket and go watch Mission: Impossible Rogue Nation?

    Surely you want to watch the last two hours of the first 1 day test match?
  • Do I miss the last two hours of today's cricket and go watch Mission: Impossible Rogue Nation?

    Its jolly good fun - to be fair its little more than a series of high octane stunts strung together - but Tom Hollander steals it......
    I'm going, plus the cinema has good 4G coverage so I can watch the cricket on my phone as well.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    No doubt it is a lack of imagination on my part but I have always had real problems in understanding why President Truman had any choice but to use the atomic bomb.

    It had been developed at truly staggering expense. It was a chance to finish an exceptionally brutal war and save millions of lives. And was it really that much worse than the fire bombing of Tokyo (or Dresden)?

    I have read a few biographies of Truman and I don't think there is much evidence that he gave it a second's thought. And quite right too.

    I think it was Churchill who said that 'moderation in war is the definition of imbecility' - Truman's choice was very simple - hundreds of thousands of dead Japanese, or that plus hundreds of thousands of dead Americans.....
    Exactly. Why is this even a debate?
    Virtue signalling. *leaves PB for an hour*
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    CD13 said:

    I thought some very old wars were almost total. Two sides started hand-to-hand combat, one side looked like losing and they began to run away. Cue wholesale slaughter of losing male population.

    Towton looked a bit nasty but that was just Yorkies.

    Perhaps Mt Dancer or Eagles can enlighten?

    Total war normally includes non-combatants in some crucial form, e.g. 'The Home Front' in the Second World War mobilising agriculture and industry to support the war effort.

    Towton, bloody though it was, only involved soldiers and those in immediate support of them. It did not lead to nationalisation of blacksmiths to add to increased production.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    CD13 said:

    I thought some very old wars were almost total. Two sides started hand-to-hand combat, one side looked like losing and they began to run away. Cue wholesale slaughter of losing male population.

    Towton looked a bit nasty but that was just Yorkies.

    Perhaps Mt Dancer or Eagles can enlighten?

    Tribal warfare would often be like that. The Wars of the Roses were comparatively civilised. In fact, the custom of ransoming prisoners, rather than killing or enslaving them, saved a lot of lives.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    edited August 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    England should aim for a 250 lead by close of play. Still 30 overs to go.

    250 o_O !!

    I'd be happy with a lead of 200.
    I'm more than happy with the lead we've already got, given how well the Aussies batted this morning. Repeat that, and we win by an innings.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mt. Dancer, Mr. CD13? I count that as a promotion :p

    Depends on the war. Casualty rates could be surprisingly low for winners in Macedonian/Diadochi era battles, but bloody enormous if you lost.

    Cannae (and Arausio/Teutoberg) was a European battle with a death toll very comparable to WWI battles, but it was done hand-to-hand with spears and short swords, not machine guns.

    Also, Caesar killed about half a million Germanian tribesmen (NB a people, not an army), described, pre-WWII, by TA Dodge as a Holocaust.

    Sometimes, sides could be slaughtered even if they didn't run away. The elite Theban Sacred Band was surrounded by Macedonians (led [the contingent, not the whole army] by Alexander) and destroyed to a man.
  • CD13 said:

    I thought some very old wars were almost total. Two sides started hand-to-hand combat, one side looked like losing and they began to run away. Cue wholesale slaughter of losing male population.

    Towton looked a bit nasty but that was just Yorkies.

    Perhaps Mt Dancer or Eagles can enlighten?

    Thirty Years War 1618-1648
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,885

    Do I miss the last two hours of today's cricket and go watch Mission: Impossible Rogue Nation?

    It could be like MI1 but on the other hand it could be like MI2.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    England should aim for a 250 lead by close of play. Still 30 overs to go.

    250 o_O !!

    I'd be happy with a lead of 200.
    Of course, but it would be rather fun to declare now and wrap up the match this evening.
  • One of my alternate histories I like to think about is this.

    Overlord is a failure, would that mean they'd amp up the Manhattan Project, and start nuking German cities in 1945, or would they have just waited for The Soviet Union to defeat the Germans?

    I don't think was any question of being able to "Amp up" the Manhattan Project - it was working flat out already. WHen they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima they still were not sure it would work, that were that far on the edge of known science and that short of testing.

    So if Overlord had failed then plans would have been made for a second attempt, probably in the spring of 1945, by which time the Sovs would probably have done all the heavy lifting despite having also to face the divisions released from the West.
    Cheers for that, I need to reread some books on the Manhattan project.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2015
    Mr Dancer linked to this earlier IIRC - good read about Robert Conquest and his histories of Stalin.

    Chilling stuff
    Conquest described how on a single day, 12 December 1937, Stalin and his henchman, Molotov, personally approved death sentences on 3,167 people - and then went to the cinema.

    The detail was unanswerable.

    And then Conquest did it again, with The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine about the famine in Ukraine in 1932-33, caused by a foolish and vindictive agricultural policy driven beyond destruction by Stalin.

    Conquest documented coolly what happened in individual villages. He described the cannibalism and starvation.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33788518
    ydoethur said:

    CD13 said:

    I thought some very old wars were almost total. Two sides started hand-to-hand combat, one side looked like losing and they began to run away. Cue wholesale slaughter of losing male population.

    Towton looked a bit nasty but that was just Yorkies.

    Perhaps Mt Dancer or Eagles can enlighten?

    Total war normally includes non-combatants in some crucial form, e.g. 'The Home Front' in the Second World War mobilising agriculture and industry to support the war effort.

    Towton, bloody though it was, only involved soldiers and those in immediate support of them. It did not lead to nationalisation of blacksmiths to add to increased production.
  • Mr. Eagles, ah, my mistake. It did seem a bit David Milibandesque for Hague.

    Mr. F, isn't apostasy (from Islam) meant to be punishable by death?

    Exactly the same as it is in Christianity and Judaism from which Islam evolved.

    Deuteronomy 13:6-10
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    Even Genghis Khan didn't quite practise total war. He annihilated the populations of towns and cities that resisted with a view to making the rest surrender and obey the Mongols.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Based on a sub-sample of 193 unweighted Londoners.

    33% of Kippers would be unhappy if they had a gay kid, whereas 29% of Londoners would be unhappy.

    http://bit.ly/1KTh989

    Good greif, the Margin of Error on that is over 7%, talk about meaningless!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Thompson, except that I think that's still the law in some Islamic nations, isn't it?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547

    Mr. Eagles, ah, my mistake. It did seem a bit David Milibandesque for Hague.

    Mr. F, isn't apostasy (from Islam) meant to be punishable by death?

    Exactly the same as it is in Christianity and Judaism from which Islam evolved.

    Deuteronomy 13:6-10
    I think it's a more than theoretical possibility, for Muslim children, even in some Western societies.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MichaelLCrick: Camila Batmangheilejh tells me for #C4News that Kids Company could reopen if the media and others "treat us fairly".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Indigo said:

    Based on a sub-sample of 193 unweighted Londoners.

    33% of Kippers would be unhappy if they had a gay kid, whereas 29% of Londoners would be unhappy.

    http://bit.ly/1KTh989

    Good greif, the Margin of Error on that is over 7%, talk about meaningless!
    The unweighted part is probably a more significant source of error.
  • Bairstow has just played a sweep hook.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Plato said:

    Mr Dancer linked to this earlier IIRC - good read about Robert Conquest and his histories of Stalin.

    Chilling stuff

    Conquest described how on a single day, 12 December 1937, Stalin and his henchman, Molotov, personally approved death sentences on 3,167 people - and then went to the cinema.

    The detail was unanswerable.

    And then Conquest did it again, with The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine about the famine in Ukraine in 1932-33, caused by a foolish and vindictive agricultural policy driven beyond destruction by Stalin.

    Conquest documented coolly what happened in individual villages. He described the cannibalism and starvation.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33788518

    One useful starter I have when I'm teaching at A-level is to put about five or six different figures up on the whiteboard. They range from 5 million to over 13 million. Then I challenge the class to guess what the link is. Usually after about 3-4 minutes someone works out that they are all suggested figures for the numbers who died in the collectivization famine. Covers all sorts of things: the scale of it, the question of historiographical interpretation, the issue of statistics being trustworthy or not, and how that changes over time (generally, down to about 1930 you can trust the Soviet government, after that their figures become less and less reliable).

    Then, I hold up The Harvest of Sorrow and tell them it's the standard book on it, and I want them all to have read it by the exam.

    And having taken five minutes, we turn to what happened and why. Always a good lesson.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    Indigo said:

    Based on a sub-sample of 193 unweighted Londoners.

    33% of Kippers would be unhappy if they had a gay kid, whereas 29% of Londoners would be unhappy.

    http://bit.ly/1KTh989

    Good greif, the Margin of Error on that is over 7%, talk about meaningless!
    To be honest, if you were to ask parents "would you be happy for your child to have sex outside marriage" you'd probably get a similar, perhaps higher percentage, saying they were unhappy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512

    DavidL said:

    No doubt it is a lack of imagination on my part but I have always had real problems in understanding why President Truman had any choice but to use the atomic bomb.

    It had been developed at truly staggering expense. It was a chance to finish an exceptionally brutal war and save millions of lives. And was it really that much worse than the fire bombing of Tokyo (or Dresden)?

    I have read a few biographies of Truman and I don't think there is much evidence that he gave it a second's thought. And quite right too.

    I think it was Churchill who said that 'moderation in war is the definition of imbecility' - Truman's choice was very simple - hundreds of thousands of dead Japanese, or that plus hundreds of thousands of dead Americans.....
    I think the moderation in war is imbecility quote was actually from Admiral John Fisher.
    Of "Baltic Plan" fame?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Project
    We got married on a ship that Fisher served on. ;)

    There's a great Al Stewart song about him:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMXewc_cSmk

    And for another great WWII song, Roads to Moscow:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ZG6tRGMYk
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038

    Bairstow has just played a sweep hook.

    Can't help feeling that England are dragging this out a bit. Surely they have enough.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited August 2015

    Tactless to remember this story on this day, but it does worry me about the poor knowledge some of our MPs have.

    Finally (thanks to Iain Macintosh), Daniel Finkelstein in Saturday's Times (pay wall), recalls William Hague's visit to Japan:

    He went with a group of MPs, and one of them had a pressing question to ask the mayor of Hiroshima. “Everywhere else we’ve been in Japan,” said the MP, “the streets have been higgledy-piggledy. Yet here in Hiroshima your streets are laid out in a well-organised grid. How did you achieve that?”

    The mayor paused and quietly responded: “We had some help. From the Americans.”

    http://ind.pn/1M7Z5WJ

    The Hiroshima bomb was not the worst bombing raid on Japan. Tokyo was largely levelled by firebombs on the night of March 9th 1945, followed by 66 other japanese cities. Firebombs were particularly effective agains Japanese wooden buildings. If you look at the picture ls of Tokyo at the time then it doesn't look very different to Hiroshima on 7 August. The difference is that Hiroshima was one plane rather than hundreds rather than being different in intent.

    If Hiroshima has a different layout than other Japanese cities then I think you need to look elsewhere for a reason. I suspect the Hague anecdote to be apocryphal

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo&ved=0CBwQFjAAahUKEwjTiomM6JTHAhVJOhQKHTXkA3Y&usg=AFQjCNFroYAoCl_bzNWL2gDg0lk4ZIRzIw
  • "So great was the devastation brought about by the war that estimates put the reduction of population in the German states at about 25 to 40 percent.[81] Some regions were affected much more than others.[82] For example, Württemberg lost three-quarters of its population during the war.[83] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died.[84] The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half.[85] The population of the Czech lands declined by a third due to war, disease, famine and the expulsion of Protestant Czechs.[86][87] Much of the destruction of civilian lives and property was caused by the cruelty and greed of mercenary soldiers.[88] Villages were especially easy prey to the marauding armies. Those that survived, like the small village of Drais near Mainz, would take almost a hundred years to recover. The Swedish armies alone may have destroyed up to 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[89]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Camila Batmangheilejh tells me for #C4News that Kids Company could reopen if the media and others "treat us fairly".

    Batman is spouting nonsense again, the downfall of KC was not the financial irregularities and insolvency which beset the charity, it was the allegations by two former employees that criminal activity, including sexual abuse, had taken place within its premises. – Once the authorities began investigating that, which they had no choice but to do, donations all but dried up and will not return soon.

    £6 million in funding evaporated after police began child abuse investigation of Kids Company

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/camila-batmanghelidjh-kids-company-charity-funding-problems-and-reasons-for-closure-2015-8?r=US&IR=T
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Camila Batmangheilejh tells me for #C4News that Kids Company could reopen if the media and others "treat us fairly".

    Oh dear god...talk about flailing around...
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited August 2015
    ''And having taken five minutes, we turn to what happened and why. Always a good lesson. ''

    For the Chinese communist equivalent, Frank Dikotter's book 'Mao's great famine' is very good in my opinion.

    It brilliantly explains how centralised targets simply don;t work. Millions starved to death, even as China's granaries and rice stores appeared to be full to bursting.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    And £8m from just Coldplay - KC was swallowing money like no one's business.

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Camila Batmangheilejh tells me for #C4News that Kids Company could reopen if the media and others "treat us fairly".

    Batman is spouting nonsense again, the downfall of KC was not the financial irregularities and insolvency which beset the charity, it was the allegations by two former employees that criminal activity, including sexual abuse, had taken place within its premises. – Once the authorities began investigating that, which they had no choice but to do, donations all but dried up and will not return soon.

    £6 million in funding evaporated after police began child abuse investigation of Kids Company

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/camila-batmanghelidjh-kids-company-charity-funding-problems-and-reasons-for-closure-2015-8?r=US&IR=T
  • taffys said:

    ''And having taken five minutes, we turn to what happened and why. Always a good lesson. ''

    For the Chinese communist equivalent, Frank Dikotter's book 'Mao's great famine' is very good in my opinion.

    It brilliantly explains how centralised targets simply don;t work. Millions starved to death, even as China's granaries and rice stores appeared to be full to bursting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547

    Tactless to remember this story on this day, but it does worry me about the poor knowledge some of our MPs have.

    Finally (thanks to Iain Macintosh), Daniel Finkelstein in Saturday's Times (pay wall), recalls William Hague's visit to Japan:

    He went with a group of MPs, and one of them had a pressing question to ask the mayor of Hiroshima. “Everywhere else we’ve been in Japan,” said the MP, “the streets have been higgledy-piggledy. Yet here in Hiroshima your streets are laid out in a well-organised grid. How did you achieve that?”

    The mayor paused and quietly responded: “We had some help. From the Americans.”

    http://ind.pn/1M7Z5WJ

    The Hiroshima bomb was not the worst bombing raid on Japan. Tokyo was largely levelled by firebombs on the night of March 9th 1945, followed by 66 other japanese cities. Firebombs were particularly effective agains Japanese wooden buildings. If you look at the picture ls of Tokyo at the time then it doesn't look very different to Hiroshima on 7 August. The difference is that Hiroshima was one plane rather than hundreds rather than being different in intent.

    If Hiroshima has a different layout than other Japanese cities then I think you need to look elsewhere for a reason. I suspect the Hague anecdote to be apocryphal

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo&ved=0CBwQFjAAahUKEwjTiomM6JTHAhVJOhQKHTXkA3Y&usg=AFQjCNFroYAoCl_bzNWL2gDg0lk4ZIRzIw
    Going back to Max Hastings' book, survivors' accounts of the Tokyo raid are very harrowing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    edited August 2015
    taffys said:

    ''And having taken five minutes, we turn to what happened and why. Always a good lesson. ''

    For the Chinese communist equivalent, Frank Dikotter's book 'Mao's great famine' is very good in my opinion.

    It brilliantly explains how centralised targets simply don;t work. Millions starved to death, even as China's granaries and rice stores appeared to be full to bursting.

    Taught on China last year. Used that one too, and I agree it's very good!

    Getting them going on mass sparrowcide is the trick...So I started with what they knew about the common sparrow. We had one rather geekish answer that it was an agent of destiny in Hamlet (which isn't quite true, but I allowed it).

    And of course the numbers who ultimately died defy imagination - possibly equivalent to the whole population of England and Wales.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Plato said:

    And £8m from just Coldplay - KC was swallowing money like no one's business.

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Camila Batmangheilejh tells me for #C4News that Kids Company could reopen if the media and others "treat us fairly".

    Batman is spouting nonsense again, the downfall of KC was not the financial irregularities and insolvency which beset the charity, it was the allegations by two former employees that criminal activity, including sexual abuse, had taken place within its premises. – Once the authorities began investigating that, which they had no choice but to do, donations all but dried up and will not return soon.

    £6 million in funding evaporated after police began child abuse investigation of Kids Company

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/camila-batmanghelidjh-kids-company-charity-funding-problems-and-reasons-for-closure-2015-8?r=US&IR=T
    The £880K wage bill, was that annually or just for the month of July? KC just gobbled money..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038

    "So great was the devastation brought about by the war that estimates put the reduction of population in the German states at about 25 to 40 percent.[81] Some regions were affected much more than others.[82] For example, Württemberg lost three-quarters of its population during the war.[83] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died.[84] The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half.[85] The population of the Czech lands declined by a third due to war, disease, famine and the expulsion of Protestant Czechs.[86][87] Much of the destruction of civilian lives and property was caused by the cruelty and greed of mercenary soldiers.[88] Villages were especially easy prey to the marauding armies. Those that survived, like the small village of Drais near Mainz, would take almost a hundred years to recover. The Swedish armies alone may have destroyed up to 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[89]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

    When we were in Fallingbostal in the early 1970s you could still find villages in the forest that had never been occupied since the 30 years war.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Cricket is better than politics.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Useless fact: 999,666 legal deliveries have been bowled in England in Test match cricket.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    edited August 2015

    Plato said:

    And £8m from just Coldplay - KC was swallowing money like no one's business.

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Camila Batmangheilejh tells me for #C4News that Kids Company could reopen if the media and others "treat us fairly".

    Batman is spouting nonsense again, the downfall of KC was not the financial irregularities and insolvency which beset the charity, it was the allegations by two former employees that criminal activity, including sexual abuse, had taken place within its premises. – Once the authorities began investigating that, which they had no choice but to do, donations all but dried up and will not return soon.

    £6 million in funding evaporated after police began child abuse investigation of Kids Company

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/camila-batmanghelidjh-kids-company-charity-funding-problems-and-reasons-for-closure-2015-8?r=US&IR=T
    The £880K wage bill, was that annually or just for the month of July? KC just gobbled money..
    495 staff - would suggest if correct an average of around £21,000 per employee per annum. Doesn't sound particularly implausible for one month's wages.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Just July's payroll. They had somewhere between 450-625 employees depending on what report you look at.

    Plato said:

    And £8m from just Coldplay - KC was swallowing money like no one's business.

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Camila Batmangheilejh tells me for #C4News that Kids Company could reopen if the media and others "treat us fairly".

    Batman is spouting nonsense again, the downfall of KC was not the financial irregularities and insolvency which beset the charity, it was the allegations by two former employees that criminal activity, including sexual abuse, had taken place within its premises. – Once the authorities began investigating that, which they had no choice but to do, donations all but dried up and will not return soon.

    £6 million in funding evaporated after police began child abuse investigation of Kids Company

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/camila-batmanghelidjh-kids-company-charity-funding-problems-and-reasons-for-closure-2015-8?r=US&IR=T
    The £880K wage bill, was that annually or just for the month of July? KC just gobbled money..
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    I work as an auditor for some charities, and beleive me when I say the ones I deal with are utterly rigerous when it comes to every penny they spend on charitable causes.

    They are also hugely careful with their money, have a large amount of reserves kept as well for the very reason to do right if their funding ever dries up.

    KC sounds like it was out of control, and heading for the wall for a long time.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547

    taffys said:

    ''And having taken five minutes, we turn to what happened and why. Always a good lesson. ''

    For the Chinese communist equivalent, Frank Dikotter's book 'Mao's great famine' is very good in my opinion.

    It brilliantly explains how centralised targets simply don;t work. Millions starved to death, even as China's granaries and rice stores appeared to be full to bursting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll
    It's fascinating the things one can learn. Following your link, I hadn't realised just how savage Western Ukrainian resistance to the Soviet Union was, after WWII.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    DavidL said:

    "So great was the devastation brought about by the war that estimates put the reduction of population in the German states at about 25 to 40 percent.[81] Some regions were affected much more than others.[82] For example, Württemberg lost three-quarters of its population during the war.[83] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died.[84] The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half.[85] The population of the Czech lands declined by a third due to war, disease, famine and the expulsion of Protestant Czechs.[86][87] Much of the destruction of civilian lives and property was caused by the cruelty and greed of mercenary soldiers.[88] Villages were especially easy prey to the marauding armies. Those that survived, like the small village of Drais near Mainz, would take almost a hundred years to recover. The Swedish armies alone may have destroyed up to 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[89]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

    When we were in Fallingbostal in the early 1970s you could still find villages in the forest that had never been occupied since the 30 years war.
    I am not surprised. If you poke around a bit you can still find the remains of villages in England that were depopulated in the Black Death
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    DavidL said:

    "So great was the devastation brought about by the war that estimates put the reduction of population in the German states at about 25 to 40 percent.[81] Some regions were affected much more than others.[82] For example, Württemberg lost three-quarters of its population during the war.[83] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died.[84] The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half.[85] The population of the Czech lands declined by a third due to war, disease, famine and the expulsion of Protestant Czechs.[86][87] Much of the destruction of civilian lives and property was caused by the cruelty and greed of mercenary soldiers.[88] Villages were especially easy prey to the marauding armies. Those that survived, like the small village of Drais near Mainz, would take almost a hundred years to recover. The Swedish armies alone may have destroyed up to 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[89]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

    When we were in Fallingbostal in the early 1970s you could still find villages in the forest that had never been occupied since the 30 years war.
    I am not surprised. If you poke around a bit you can still find the remains of villages in England that were depopulated in the Black Death
    In Wales the classic example is Bere, which is a green field between Tywyn and Abergynolwyn with a ruined castle in it. The village was founded next to said castle by Edward I, and had vanished entirely by 1350. Criccieth also suffered badly, although it recovered to a small extent - in the nineteenth century.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Camila Batmangheilejh tells me for #C4News that Kids Company could reopen if the media and others "treat us fairly".

    Batman is spouting nonsense again, the downfall of KC was not the financial irregularities and insolvency which beset the charity, it was the allegations by two former employees that criminal activity, including sexual abuse, had taken place within its premises. – Once the authorities began investigating that, which they had no choice but to do, donations all but dried up and will not return soon.

    £6 million in funding evaporated after police began child abuse investigation of Kids Company

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/camila-batmanghelidjh-kids-company-charity-funding-problems-and-reasons-for-closure-2015-8?r=US&IR=T
    They would have had more chance of surviving a downturn in income, had the charity bothered building up reserves.

    By many accounts, cash was being handed out to kids, as fast as it dropped into the charity's bank.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    This is handy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lost_settlements_in_the_United_Kingdom

    DavidL said:

    "So great was the devastation brought about by the war that estimates put the reduction of population in the German states at about 25 to 40 percent.[81] Some regions were affected much more than others.[82] For example, Württemberg lost three-quarters of its population during the war.[83] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died.[84] The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half.[85] The population of the Czech lands declined by a third due to war, disease, famine and the expulsion of Protestant Czechs.[86][87] Much of the destruction of civilian lives and property was caused by the cruelty and greed of mercenary soldiers.[88] Villages were especially easy prey to the marauding armies. Those that survived, like the small village of Drais near Mainz, would take almost a hundred years to recover. The Swedish armies alone may have destroyed up to 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[89]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

    When we were in Fallingbostal in the early 1970s you could still find villages in the forest that had never been occupied since the 30 years war.
    I am not surprised. If you poke around a bit you can still find the remains of villages in England that were depopulated in the Black Death
  • Sean_F said:

    taffys said:

    ''And having taken five minutes, we turn to what happened and why. Always a good lesson. ''

    For the Chinese communist equivalent, Frank Dikotter's book 'Mao's great famine' is very good in my opinion.

    It brilliantly explains how centralised targets simply don;t work. Millions starved to death, even as China's granaries and rice stores appeared to be full to bursting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll
    It's fascinating the things one can learn. Following your link, I hadn't realised just how savage Western Ukrainian resistance to the Soviet Union was, after WWII.
    Sorry what was the figure given? Seem not to be able to find it in the table
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Is this what it felt like to be an Australian in the 1990s?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    I feel it important, at this time, to declare that if any of you wish to charitably support a fledgling author (me) by giving me a small donation of between three and eight million pounds, I promise not to be bankrupt next week.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    A teenager who used Kids Company has boasted of how she spent the money given to her by the charity on drugs.

    The charity founded by Camila Batmanghelidjh closed yesterday amid allegations of financial mismanagement and a row over funding.

    One of the youngsters helped by the organisation has now told how she and her friends would splash the spending money they were given on cannabis.

    She told Radio 4's The Report: 'We would queue up and sign our names down and get an envelope with £30 and an Oyster travelcard.

    'Then we would go to the shop and buy whatever we wanted with that money. It was weed heaven on a Friday, you could smell it coming down from the landings.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "Why do some London Mayoral Candidates not love Fried Chicken?"

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2015/08/sadiq-khan-caught-in-a-flap-over-fried-chicken/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    ydoethur said:

    Is this what it felt like to be an Australian in the 1990s?

    Or a Tory in May?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Jonathan, one would guess it's better than that. There was always a sneaking suspicion Ed Miliband may have been crap.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Root has now faced as many balls as the entire Aus XI, and scored 30 more runs.

    And Bairstow is closing in as well...to be worse than Root may be regarded as a misfortune, to be worse than Bairstow looks like carelessness.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited August 2015
    2015

    Spurs beat Arsenal (2-1) and Chelsea (5-3) in PL
    Tories win a majority
    England regain the Ashes (*TBC)

    Not bad so far. [typo corrected - thanks]
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    2015

    Spurs beat Arsenal (2-1) and Chelsea (5-3) in PL
    Tories win a majority
    England retain the Ashes (*TBC)

    Not bad so far.

    Regain the Ashes... unless you've forgotten?
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    Tactless to remember this story on this day, but it does worry me about the poor knowledge some of our MPs have.

    Finally (thanks to Iain Macintosh), Daniel Finkelstein in Saturday's Times (pay wall), recalls William Hague's visit to Japan:

    He went with a group of MPs, and one of them had a pressing question to ask the mayor of Hiroshima. “Everywhere else we’ve been in Japan,” said the MP, “the streets have been higgledy-piggledy. Yet here in Hiroshima your streets are laid out in a well-organised grid. How did you achieve that?”

    The mayor paused and quietly responded: “We had some help. From the Americans.”

    http://ind.pn/1M7Z5WJ

    The Hiroshima bomb was not the worst bombing raid on Japan. Tokyo was largely levelled by firebombs on the night of March 9th 1945, followed by 66 other japanese cities. Firebombs were particularly effective agains Japanese wooden buildings. If you look at the picture ls of Tokyo at the time then it doesn't look very different to Hiroshima on 7 August. The difference is that Hiroshima was one plane rather than hundreds rather than being different in intent.

    If Hiroshima has a different layout than other Japanese cities then I think you need to look elsewhere for a reason. I suspect the Hague anecdote to be apocryphal

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo&ved=0CBwQFjAAahUKEwjTiomM6JTHAhVJOhQKHTXkA3Y&usg=AFQjCNFroYAoCl_bzNWL2gDg0lk4ZIRzIw
    I visited Hiroshima a few years ago - as well as a few stone built buildings like the Cathedral, the tram network also survived and has been kept going as a memorial. Both my 12 year old daughter and I found the museum a bit too much and cut out after an hour or so.

    In terms of the effectiveness of the nuclear bombs and Tokyo etc - I think the War and Peace parties had equal numbers of war cabinet ministers with the Emperor having a casting vote - the cabinet was in deadlock with no mechanism to get the Emperor into the room to break it. I think it was the fear of Russia invading form the East which finally broke the deadlock and brought about the surrender to the US.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    2015

    Spurs beat Arsenal (2-1) and Chelsea (5-3) in PL
    Tories win a majority
    England retain the Ashes (*TBC)

    Not bad so far.

    Regain the Ashes... unless you've forgotten?
    It was a pretty forgettable series...
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited August 2015
    Financier said:

    A teenager who used Kids Company has boasted of how she spent the money given to her by the charity on drugs.

    The charity founded by Camila Batmanghelidjh closed yesterday amid allegations of financial mismanagement and a row over funding.

    One of the youngsters helped by the organisation has now told how she and her friends would splash the spending money they were given on cannabis.

    She told Radio 4's The Report: 'We would queue up and sign our names down and get an envelope with £30 and an Oyster travelcard.

    'Then we would go to the shop and buy whatever we wanted with that money. It was weed heaven on a Friday, you could smell it coming down from the landings.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/

    It is almost unbelievable that they just handed out money with no oversight over how it was used. It really does not take a genius to work out that this would end in tears.

    It would appear that the only reason they got away with it for so long was because they were the darling of the metropolitan elite, both Labour and Tory. Tens of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money has been wasted just so politicians could boast about helping KC at their dinner parties.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    2015

    Spurs beat Arsenal (2-1) and Chelsea (5-3) in PL
    Tories win a majority
    England retain the Ashes (*TBC)

    Not bad so far.

    Regain the Ashes... unless you've forgotten?
    We won the last Ashes in the summer of 2013. I agree that it's odd that we haven't toured Australia since.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Well as the LDs offered virtually no policies from either column and got trounced there may be grounds to differ. In any case the Tory welfare cap and immigration cap showed they were aiming to meet the voters at least halfway where policies had majority support, no reason Labour could not do the same
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    calum said:



    I visited Hiroshima a few years ago - as well as a few stone built buildings like the Cathedral, the tram network also survived and has been kept going as a memorial. Both my 12 year old daughter and I found the museum a bit too much and cut out after an hour or so.

    In terms of the effectiveness of the nuclear bombs and Tokyo etc - I think the War and Peace parties had equal numbers of war cabinet ministers with the Emperor having a casting vote - the cabinet was in deadlock with no mechanism to get the Emperor into the room to break it. I think it was the fear of Russia invading form the East which finally broke the deadlock and brought about the surrender to the US.

    I could be wrong - I'm not an expert on Japanese history - but I think it wasn't until after Japan had decided to surrender that Russia (the USSR) decided to invade, and largely so they could have some input in post-war Manchuria rather than any other reason.

    The irony is of course that having declared war on Japan at literally the last minute, the two countries remain officially at war because they've never been able to agree on peace terms.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Just bitter at the treatment his uncle got no doubt

    "Jimmy Savile's nephew today claimed that a male friend was abused by Sir Edward Heath.

    Guy Marsden said the friend was just 14 at the time and the alleged sex attack on him happened at a party in London during the Seventies.

    Mr Marsden, 61, said he and three friends aged 13 to 16 were ferried across London from flat to flat, where sexual abuse took place. He said police are aware of the allegations by his friend, who is now married with two children and wishes to remain anonymous."

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/sir-edward-heath-abused-boy-of-14-at-london-party-says-savile-nephew-10442694.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    edited August 2015
    Tory MP Tim Loughton caught having signed up as a Labour supporter to vote in its leadership election (I wonder if Cameron has signed up under another name to vote for Corbyn?) Loughton says "In the box at the end of the application it asks: ‘What are your reasons for wanting to become a supporter of the Labour party?’ I put: ‘To vote to Jeremy Corbyn and consign Labour to OBLIVION for a generation’ and then I got a ‘welcome to the Labour party’ email. "
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/05/conservative-tim-loughton-signs-up-labour-supporter-leadership-contest
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137

    I work as an auditor for some charities, and beleive me when I say the ones I deal with are utterly rigerous when it comes to every penny they spend on charitable causes.

    They are also hugely careful with their money, have a large amount of reserves kept as well for the very reason to do right if their funding ever dries up.

    KC sounds like it was out of control, and heading for the wall for a long time.

    Begs the question - who was doing the audits and what did the trustees know?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    HYUFD said:

    Tory MP Tim Loughton caught having signed up as a Labour supporter to vote in its leadership election (I wonder if Cameron has signed up under another name to vote for Corbyn?)
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/05/conservative-tim-loughton-signs-up-labour-supporter-leadership-contest

    100 Green Party election candidates also caught.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    HYUFD said:

    Tory MP Tim Loughton caught having signed up as a Labour supporter to vote in its leadership election (I wonder if Cameron has signed up under another name to vote for Corbyn?) Loughton says "In the box at the end of the application it asks: ‘What are your reasons for wanting to become a supporter of the Labour party?’ I put: ‘To vote to Jeremy Corbyn and consign Labour to OBLIVION for a generation’ and then I got a ‘welcome to the Labour party’ email. "
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/05/conservative-tim-loughton-signs-up-labour-supporter-leadership-contest

    An honest politician? Shome mishtake shurely.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    I've known some smaller charities where the main driving force (and individual or a couple) can't money manage and gets hopelessly lost. But one with hundreds of employees, worth millions of pounds?!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    ydoethur said:

    calum said:



    I visited Hiroshima a few years ago - as well as a few stone built buildings like the Cathedral, the tram network also survived and has been kept going as a memorial. Both my 12 year old daughter and I found the museum a bit too much and cut out after an hour or so.

    In terms of the effectiveness of the nuclear bombs and Tokyo etc - I think the War and Peace parties had equal numbers of war cabinet ministers with the Emperor having a casting vote - the cabinet was in deadlock with no mechanism to get the Emperor into the room to break it. I think it was the fear of Russia invading form the East which finally broke the deadlock and brought about the surrender to the US.

    I could be wrong - I'm not an expert on Japanese history - but I think it wasn't until after Japan had decided to surrender that Russia (the USSR) decided to invade, and largely so they could have some input in post-war Manchuria rather than any other reason.

    The irony is of course that having declared war on Japan at literally the last minute, the two countries remain officially at war because they've never been able to agree on peace terms.
    My memory (and IANAE) recalls differently: the Russians had moved vast numbers of troops east after the fall of Berlin, ready to attack three months after VE day as part of a commitment made at one of the conferences. Yalta, perhaps?

    BTW, from what you wrote below, I wish I'd had you as a history teacher.
  • Who should the Aussies send out to face the end of day interviews?

    Mr. Extras is an elusive figure so perhaps they could speak with Lynton Crosby about the election?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited August 2015

    I work as an auditor for some charities, and beleive me when I say the ones I deal with are utterly rigerous when it comes to every penny they spend on charitable causes.

    They are also hugely careful with their money, have a large amount of reserves kept as well for the very reason to do right if their funding ever dries up.

    KC sounds like it was out of control, and heading for the wall for a long time.

    Begs the question - who was doing the audits and what did the trustees know?
    http://kidsco.org.uk/download/Annual_Report_2013.compressed.pdf

    page 5 gives auditors and trustees names - Yentob was Chairman - see page 45.

    financial stuff from p47 - no problems flagged up - but I've still to look at notes to the accounts.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Always difficult to know when tipping such a strong favourite, but having suggested England were better than 90% to win this, they haven't ever looked like losing it since...

    I'm on course to win my £3.30!
  • ydoethur said:

    calum said:



    I visited Hiroshima a few years ago - as well as a few stone built buildings like the Cathedral, the tram network also survived and has been kept going as a memorial. Both my 12 year old daughter and I found the museum a bit too much and cut out after an hour or so.

    In terms of the effectiveness of the nuclear bombs and Tokyo etc - I think the War and Peace parties had equal numbers of war cabinet ministers with the Emperor having a casting vote - the cabinet was in deadlock with no mechanism to get the Emperor into the room to break it. I think it was the fear of Russia invading form the East which finally broke the deadlock and brought about the surrender to the US.

    I could be wrong - I'm not an expert on Japanese history - but I think it wasn't until after Japan had decided to surrender that Russia (the USSR) decided to invade, and largely so they could have some input in post-war Manchuria rather than any other reason.

    The irony is of course that having declared war on Japan at literally the last minute, the two countries remain officially at war because they've never been able to agree on peace terms.
    My memory (and IANAE) recalls differently: the Russians had moved vast numbers of troops east after the fall of Berlin, ready to attack three months after VE day as part of a commitment made at one of the conferences. Yalta, perhaps?

    BTW, from what you wrote below, I wish I'd had you as a history teacher.
    It was Yalta Agreement, yes. During their brief campaign, the Soviets seized South Sakhalin, the Kuriles (all of them), Manchuria and entered northern Korea.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Who should the Aussies send out to face the end of day interviews?

    Mr. Extras is an elusive figure so perhaps they could speak with Lynton Crosby about the election?

    https://twitter.com/generalboles/status/629257435828625408
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    ydoethur said:

    calum said:



    I visited Hiroshima a few years ago - as well as a few stone built buildings like the Cathedral, the tram network also survived and has been kept going as a memorial. Both my 12 year old daughter and I found the museum a bit too much and cut out after an hour or so.

    In terms of the effectiveness of the nuclear bombs and Tokyo etc - I think the War and Peace parties had equal numbers of war cabinet ministers with the Emperor having a casting vote - the cabinet was in deadlock with no mechanism to get the Emperor into the room to break it. I think it was the fear of Russia invading form the East which finally broke the deadlock and brought about the surrender to the US.

    I could be wrong - I'm not an expert on Japanese history - but I think it wasn't until after Japan had decided to surrender that Russia (the USSR) decided to invade, and largely so they could have some input in post-war Manchuria rather than any other reason.

    The irony is of course that having declared war on Japan at literally the last minute, the two countries remain officially at war because they've never been able to agree on peace terms.
    My memory (and IANAE) recalls differently: the Russians had moved vast numbers of troops east after the fall of Berlin, ready to attack three months after VE day as part of a commitment made at one of the conferences. Yalta, perhaps?

    BTW, from what you wrote below, I wish I'd had you as a history teacher.
    It was Yalta Agreement, yes. During their brief campaign, the Soviets seized South Sakhalin, the Kuriles (all of them), Manchuria and entered northern Korea.
    Fair enough, I was wrong. Does happen. The problem with history is there is simply so much of it. Even within tightly defined areas - e.g. Russia - it isn't possible to know everything. My ideas were based on one conversation some years ago, and I clearly forgot some of the details.

    Thank you for the kind words Mr Jessop.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    Seriously, is this the most one sided day of Ashes cricket ever?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2015

    ydoethur said:

    calum said:



    I visited Hiroshima a few years ago - as well as a few stone built buildings like the Cathedral, the tram network also survived and has been kept going as a memorial. Both my 12 year old daughter and I found the museum a bit too much and cut out after an hour or so.

    In terms of the effectiveness of the nuclear bombs and Tokyo etc - I think the War and Peace parties had equal numbers of war cabinet ministers with the Emperor having a casting vote - the cabinet was in deadlock with no mechanism to get the Emperor into the room to break it. I think it was the fear of Russia invading form the East which finally broke the deadlock and brought about the surrender to the US.

    I could be wrong - I'm not an expert on Japanese history - but I think it wasn't until after Japan had decided to surrender that Russia (the USSR) decided to invade, and largely so they could have some input in post-war Manchuria rather than any other reason.

    The irony is of course that having declared war on Japan at literally the last minute, the two countries remain officially at war because they've never been able to agree on peace terms.
    My memory (and IANAE) recalls differently: the Russians had moved vast numbers of troops east after the fall of Berlin, ready to attack three months after VE day as part of a commitment made at one of the conferences. Yalta, perhaps?

    BTW, from what you wrote below, I wish I'd had you as a history teacher.
    Spot on Mr. J., though I think the conference you refer to was the one at Potsdam. Soviet diplomats were withdrawn from Japan before the end of July and the attack went in on 9th August - the same day as the Nagasaki bomb was dropped.

    P.S. Just think if you had had Mr. Ydoethur as a history teacher you might have been seduced over to the dark side and never studied engineering, never met Mrs. J. and your nipper might never have been born. Instead you could have ended up as a crusty old codger at Cambridge, covered in fag ash and holding forth about some obscure protestant sect in Lancashire in the 1640s. There is a reason why God creates most history teachers as boring and useless (though why he makes so many maths teachers in the same image is unfathomable).
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