Surprising to see (1) that Norway allows more asylum applications than almost any EU country (refugees from Russia in the north?) and (2) how many Luxembourg have.
EDITED - although now I see it's per head of population, which is rather more explicable.
Mr. Royale, I do wonder if Germans, tired of propping up Greece with cash and taking a horde of immigrants in a single month, might reconsider their dream of ever-closer union.
The answer is no. They like order and they like to be in control.
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
Winning PMQs doesn't really matter. William Hague was apparently brilliant at PMQs, it didn't mean much during the 2001 GE - it hardly helped 'save the pound' campaign afterall (lol). Corbyn pleasing the BBC doesn't mean much either - the BBC is probably far more liberal than most of the country!
Michael Foot was also very good in the House of Commons. It was about the only thing that kept his leadership going.
Being very good in the Commons was one thing that kept Hague and Foot in place through to their election defeats, whereas being poor in the Chamber saw IDS and Ming Campbell dumped.
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
Winning PMQs doesn't really matter. William Hague was apparently brilliant at PMQs, it didn't mean much during the 2001 GE - it hardly helped 'save the pound' campaign afterall (lol). Corbyn pleasing the BBC doesn't mean much either - the BBC is probably far more liberal than most of the country!
Michael Foot was also very good in the House of Commons. It was about the only thing that kept his leadership going.
Being very good in the Commons was one thing that kept Hague and Foot in place through to their election defeats, whereas being poor in the Chamber saw IDS and Ming Campbell dumped.
If JC wins, I genuinely expect there to be an uptick for Labour in the polls - giving away apple pie and fair trade sweeties is appealing.
I'm sure some of his manifesto will get some good %s in favour of them. However, and its a big however - the electorate can play Snog, Marry, Avoid for quite a while - then they pick a suitable bride as PM.
I'm about to do a U-turn, I'm beginning to think Corbyn will be bad for the tories. He is straight talking and has inadvertently collected the populist vote through being different to the other candidates.
Cameron will swot the other lightweights away, they stand for nothing, he'll have his hands full with Corbyn. This could backfire on the £3 tories.
None of the contenders can win a GE in my opinion. at least Corbyn will give voters a choice
Do the voters really need the choice of "bat-shit crazy" on the ballot paper though?
They had the Greens at the GE - doesn't come any battier or shittier than them.
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
Winning PMQs doesn't really matter. William Hague was apparently brilliant at PMQs, it didn't mean much during the 2001 GE - it hardly helped 'save the pound' campaign afterall (lol). Corbyn pleasing the BBC doesn't mean much either - the BBC is probably far more liberal than most of the country!
Michael Foot was also very good in the House of Commons. It was about the only thing that kept his leadership going.
Being very good in the Commons was one thing that kept Hague and Foot in place through to their election defeats, whereas being poor in the Chamber saw IDS and Ming Campbell dumped.
Every week, he would stand up and croak (literally) as loudly as he could, 'The trouble is, nobody believes a word he says.'
If the Conservatives do assume a Corbyn win (should it happen) means automatic victory in 2020 then they could become imprudently prone to splitting and risking more internal dissent, which could present Corbyn with opportunities.
Indeed. Although I was wondering on Saturday night why someone of your tender years was hanging out with us old farts on here rather than out having fun IRL...
Mr. Calum, you think our migration policy should be dictated by what other countries are doing?
Mr. Perdix, not sure the eurozone will stay under control, though.
I think if the data on the chart is accurate, what it appears to show is that hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers are being processed across the whole of Europe (except in the former Soviet block). I think migration policy and how we deal with asylum seekers are different issues, which are constantly being confused by the MSM and our politicians.
There is much we could be doing to better manage economic migration from outside the EU - much stiffer penalties for employing illegal immigrants would be an obvious place to start.
Mr. StClare, Russell Brand has endorsed Ed Miliband, and the Conservatives should be worried.
Jones might not be wrong. Past performance is no guarantee of future failure.
True enough, although the ability to rely on that so brazenly and to ignore past performance when making even bolder predictions in future is key to being a pundit, that arrogant belief that this time they are definitely right and how dare anyone say otherwise just because they were just as forthright about being right before, when they were dead wrong.
I do think Corbyn being a different animal than that they were expected could trip some Tories up, if they are not careful, though fundamentally his problems should not exceed the issues he causes them.
Heath knows that when Corbyn and his supporters are given prime slots on TV, radio and in the mainstream media, however hostile the media spin is, millions of people – whether they didn't vote, or voted Labour, SNP, Ukip or even Tory – will often be nodding along.
Mr. kle4, reminds me of the Blackadder Goes Forth quote from Melchitt: "Doing precisely what we've done 17 times before will catch the watchful Hun totally off-guard."
Re that Owen Jones article - it failed @kle4's scroll test. I got bored, scrolled down a bit, then again and again and again. It was long enough to have Now Please Wash Your Hands written on it.
Mr. Calum, you think our migration policy should be dictated by what other countries are doing?
Mr. Perdix, not sure the eurozone will stay under control, though.
I think if the data on the chart is accurate, what it appears to show is that hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers are being processed across the whole of Europe (except in the former Soviet block). I think migration policy and how we deal with asylum seekers are different issues, which are constantly being confused by the MSM and our politicians.
There is much we could be doing to better manage economic migration from outside the EU - much stiffer penalties for employing illegal immigrants would be an obvious place to start.
Yes, migration and asylum are different things. The problem is that if we don't have control over the former why should the public be sympathetic to the latter?
Mr. kle4, reminds me of the Blackadder Goes Forth quote from Melchitt: "Doing precisely what we've done 17 times before will catch the watchful Hun totally off-guard."
I think more of this one when I think of Owen Jones, or the current state of the Labour party:
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
She says she is actually to the left of Jez, would love to support the Corbyntifada, but even though *we all secretly agree with Jeremy's Marxism, first we have to lie to the voters to get into power*.
Then there's this gem. She wants to "abolish inheritance." Direct quote. That's it. No ifs, no buts, when you die the Inheritance Polizei swoop on your house and seize everything you owned from the trembling hands of your sobbing children. Everything goes to the State. Perhaps it is first taken to bleak warehouses, for the loot to be sorted by silent Ukrainians.
Corbyn is a disaster for the Left in innumerable ways, and this is another one: he is revealing the true face of supposedly moderate Labourites: envious, mendacious, quasi Marxist, entirely destructive.
It's even more ironic for a woman who got where she is because of her family's considerable wealth and their political connections.
Has anyone else read and enjoyed this brilliant and wickedly accurate spoof on Her Pollyness:
I know - I've said it before. And I'll say it again. And this: England, apart rom its multicultural cities, is a one-party State. And in those cities the only serious opposition to Toryism is militant Islam.
Only because of the FPTP system. The Tories get about a third of the vote in England. In any other system that would not be a one-party state. It demonstrates how sick our democracy has become under FPTP, nothing else.
Democracy can be interpreted in many ways to fit any preferred purpose excluding any which is clearly autocratic; but where does the "clearly" line lie?
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
Quite
As the example SeanT points out well below- the 2020 GE will be fought on Labour trying to soften down Jeremy whilst the Cons scare everyone with Jezza's secret hidden hard left agenda.
As it wont be that secret or hidden - Labour are in for a kicking.
Re that Owen Jones article - it failed @kle4's scroll test. I got bored, scrolled down a bit, then again and again and again. It was long enough to have Now Please Wash Your Hands written on it.
Isn't it disturbing to think that the insightful item at the head of the thread was written for free, whereas Jones is paid - sometimes very highly paid - for bone-headed excuses for analysis based on a mix of prejudice, hysteria and snobbery that would get him a third if submitted for assessment at any reputable university?
If there was ever a more damning indictment of our broken economic system and the lack of meritocracy in society....
(And of course, although Antifrank apologised for the length, his was much shorter!)
Re that Owen Jones article - it failed @kle4's scroll test. I got bored, scrolled down a bit, then again and again and again. It was long enough to have Now Please Wash Your Hands written on it.
Isn't it disturbing to think that the insightful item at the head of the thread was written for free, whereas Jones is paid - sometimes very highly paid - for bone-headed excuses for analysis based on a mix of prejudice, hysteria and snobbery that would get him a third if submitted for assessment at any reputable university?
If there was ever a more damning indictment of our broken economic system and the lack of meritocracy in society....
(And of course, although Antifrank apologised for the length, his was much shorter!)
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
Quite
I don't think the LDs should join the Tories in kicking Corbyn.
They need to find some common ground with him which I think is possible on some aspects of foreign policy (negotiation not war) and economic policy (balance the budget on current spending over a cycle but borrow to invest; allow the public sector to bid for rail franchises as they come up for renewal and so on). Some policies they'll have to agree to disagree on.
But the main thing is for them to remain polite and respectful not nasty and vindictive like the Tories.
In this way I think we could see centre left LD and more left Labour forming an effective anti-Tory "alliance" joined by the Greens and SNP where it matters. I have put "alliance" in inverted commas as it wouldn't be formal. It would simply be cooperation in their mutual interest to get the Tories out.
I did not go to the annual dinner. I met up with Ed after the dinner. Throughout the four days that I worked on this and right after seeing our guest to her taxi, I felt this awful feeling in the pit of my stomach. How could it be that the Labour Party, supposedly the Party of working people, was not in relationship with a single minimum wage worker? It was stunning!
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
Is anyone keeping an eye on 'thug in a suit' Tom Watson? By all accounts he is going to win the deputy leadership. If Jeremy Corbyn becomes leader, then TW is perfectly placed to become leader. I don't think anyone will oppose him because the Labour will be just too exhausted and will not want to go through another leadership contest.
To anyone who doesn't follow politics, he always comes across as quite reasonable but we all know that this 'brownite' is Len McCluskey's chief assassin.
Just something for everyone to ponder is fine day!!
Is anyone keeping an eye on 'thug in a suit' Tom Watson? By all accounts he is going to win the deputy leadership. If Jeremy Corbyn becomes leader, then TW is perfectly placed to become leader. I don't think anyone will oppose him because the Labour will be just too exhausted and will not want to go through another leadership contest.
To anyone who doesn't follow politics, he always comes across as quite reasonable but we all know that this 'brownite' is Len McCluskey's chief assassin.
Just something for everyone to ponder is fine day!!
As his campaign judgement is so poor this is good news.
OT It is wet, windy and a high surf here today. Had fruit and muesli for breakfast, too wet and cold for sandals, should I grow a beard to keep me warm - have been wearing a winter sweater all week.
I think we agree about Corbyn's policies, where it seems we differ is the tory response. If he wins at PMQs he'll get some great soundbites that will motivate backbenchers and please the BBC, Cameron shouldn't underestimate his appeal.
Quite
But the main thing is for them to remain polite and respectful not nasty and vindictive like the Tories.
That is really rather chilling. Striking the equanimity with which he cites as examples 'getting into debt ... trouble with small boys' as if the two were equal offences.
I think this is a comment. I would excuse anyone calling OJ an oik.
I wouldn't. I would consider that a grotesque and abusive slur as well as a reprehensible misuse of inflammatory language, and I now call on you to apologise to oiks.
Is anyone keeping an eye on 'thug in a suit' Tom Watson? By all accounts he is going to win the deputy leadership. If Jeremy Corbyn becomes leader, then TW is perfectly placed to become leader. I don't think anyone will oppose him because the Labour will be just too exhausted and will not want to go through another leadership contest.
To anyone who doesn't follow politics, he always comes across as quite reasonable but we all know that this 'brownite' is Len McCluskey's chief assassin.
Just something for everyone to ponder is fine day!!
As his campaign judgement is so poor this is good news.
Has Watson yet opined at great length about phone-hacking at the Mirror?
Add hypocrite to his long list of unpleasant character traits.
''That is really rather chilling. Striking the equanimity with which he cites as examples 'getting into debt ... trouble with small boys' as if the two were equal offences. ''
No to defend it in any way, but the past is another country etc.
I think this is a comment. I would excuse anyone calling OJ an oik.
Owen Jones is currently succeeding triumphantly in his main aims: enhancing his profile and selling his books. He's an intelligent chap, so I very much doubt whether he actually believes that the right fear Corbyn.
I did not go to the annual dinner. I met up with Ed after the dinner. Throughout the four days that I worked on this and right after seeing our guest to her taxi, I felt this awful feeling in the pit of my stomach. How could it be that the Labour Party, supposedly the Party of working people, was not in relationship with a single minimum wage worker? It was stunning!
It's a difficult issue. Membership and the activist base in parties have fallen so low that local parties are understaffed across the board. If you are going to free up time for local activists just to meet new people, something has to go. Do you cut down on data recording? Literature drops? What?
They need to find some common ground with him which I think is possible on some aspects of foreign policy (negotiation not war) and economic policy (balance the budget on current spending over a cycle but borrow to invest; allow the public sector to bid for rail franchises as they come up for renewal and so on). Some policies they'll have to agree to disagree on.
''That is really rather chilling. Striking the equanimity with which he cites as examples 'getting into debt ... trouble with small boys' as if the two were equal offences. ''
No to defend it in any way, but the past is another country etc.
Yes, but many of its former inhabitants now reside in the country of the present.
That is really rather chilling. Striking the equanimity with which he cites as examples 'getting into debt ... trouble with small boys' as if the two were equal offences.
It's high time this came out.
Having in the past met some quite creepy (now ex) Tory MPs - who clearly enjoyed the attention of young men, and weren't exactly hiding it - I wonder how deep this scandal truly goes.
I don't get why he's still being paid. He spent five years being obnoxiously wrong.
I can see him doing a Johann Hari in the very near future though. Seems a pretty safe bet, don't you think?
I will say, in fairness to Owen Jones; he's remarkably rude, not very intelligent, frequently wrong (in fact, almost always wrong) dogmatic and arrogant, but I haven't yet caught him falsifying information to support his views. That was the crime that did for Hari and that was orders of magnitude worse than just being a fool. Jones, though he is deeply flawed, also clearly believes what he is saying.
Of course, that could change. But such cases as Hari or Jayston Blair are thankfully very rare (like David Irving in history) and I see no reason to think that Jones will be another.
I don't get why he's still being paid. He spent five years being obnoxiously wrong.
I can see him doing a Johann Hari in the very near future though. Seems a pretty safe bet, don't you think?
I will say, in fairness to Owen Jones; he's remarkably rude, not very intelligent, frequently wrong (in fact, almost always wrong) dogmatic and arrogant, but I haven't yet caught him falsifying information to support his views. That was the crime that did for Hari and that was orders of magnitude worse than just being a fool. Jones, though he is deeply flawed, also clearly believes what he is saying.
Of course, that could change. But such cases as Hari or Jayston Blair are thankfully very rare (like David Irving in history) and I see no reason to think that Jones will be another.
''That is really rather chilling. Striking the equanimity with which he cites as examples 'getting into debt ... trouble with small boys' as if the two were equal offences. ''
No to defend it in any way, but the past is another country etc.
Yes, but many of its former inhabitants now reside in the country of the present.
And of course, I should add that paedophilia was illegal - and perpetrators were imprisoned - even in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Is Polly Toynbee really a 'moderate'? I've never really known what to think of her.
@Charles I'm usually a Friday, rather than Saturday person regarding night-outs. Though I don't go out on Friday nights that often - I'm not really into the whole clubbing scene (which makes me very unusual for me age). And believe it or not, I go on other sites too (Facebook + Tumblr mainly) while on PB.
She says she is actually to the left of Jez, would love to support the Corbyntifada, but even though *we all secretly agree with Jeremy's Marxism, first we have to lie to the voters to get into power*.
Then there's this gem. She wants to "abolish inheritance." Direct quote. That's it. No ifs, no buts, when you die the Inheritance Polizei swoop on your house and seize everything you owned from the trembling hands of your sobbing children. Everything goes to the State. Perhaps it is first taken to bleak warehouses, for the loot to be sorted by silent Ukrainians.
Corbyn is a disaster for the Left in innumerable ways, and this is another one: he is revealing the true face of supposedly moderate Labourites: envious, mendacious, quasi Marxist, entirely destructive.
Will Toynbee take your teeth and glasses too? She's another fine example of a socialist (Marxist?) toff; private school education and managed to get a scholarship to Oxford with one 'A' level - that's influence for you.
Mr. Royale, worth recalling, though this was glossed over, that most of the sexual harassment complaints made in the Commons (think it was revealed in the press last year) came from men.
But there seems to be an airbrushing of male victims of such things, whether it's grown men in the Commons, or the third of child victims in Rotherham who were male.
Is Polly Toynbee really a 'moderate'? I've never really known what to think of her.
@Charles I'm usually a Friday, rather than Saturday person regarding night-out. Though I don't go out on Friday nights that often - I'm not really into the whole clubbing scene (which makes me very unusual for me age). And believe it or not, I go on other sites too (Facebook _+ Tumblr mainly) while on PB.
They need to find some common ground with him which I think is possible on some aspects of foreign policy (negotiation not war) and economic policy (balance the budget on current spending over a cycle but borrow to invest; allow the public sector to bid for rail franchises as they come up for renewal and so on). Some policies they'll have to agree to disagree on.
Hopefully TTIP will be killed stone dead when and if it comes before Parliament by a combination of Lab, LD, Green and 1 UKIP plus quite a few Tory MPs, - if it gets that far given German resistance to it.
I don't get why he's still being paid. He spent five years being obnoxiously wrong.
I can see him doing a Johann Hari in the very near future though. Seems a pretty safe bet, don't you think?
I will say, in fairness to Owen Jones; he's remarkably rude, not very intelligent, frequently wrong (in fact, almost always wrong) dogmatic and arrogant, but I haven't yet caught him falsifying information to support his views. That was the crime that did for Hari and that was orders of magnitude worse than just being a fool. Jones, though he is deeply flawed, also clearly believes what he is saying.
Of course, that could change. But such cases as Hari or Jayston Blair are thankfully very rare (like David Irving in history) and I see no reason to think that Jones will be another.
Indeed, Johann Hari was deceitful fantasist who plagiarised the work of other journalists, altered the wiki entries of opponents with smears, whilst flattering those of his sympathetic circle - and all done using the sock puppet David Rose. – OJ may be an idiot, but an honest idiot imho.
I don't get why he's still being paid. He spent five years being obnoxiously wrong.
I can see him doing a Johann Hari in the very near future though. Seems a pretty safe bet, don't you think?
I will say, in fairness to Owen Jones; he's remarkably rude, not very intelligent, frequently wrong (in fact, almost always wrong) dogmatic and arrogant, but I haven't yet caught him falsifying information to support his views. That was the crime that did for Hari and that was orders of magnitude worse than just being a fool. Jones, though he is deeply flawed, also clearly believes what he is saying.
Of course, that could change. But such cases as Hari or Jayston Blair are thankfully very rare (like David Irving in history) and I see no reason to think that Jones will be another.
Indeed, Johann Hari was deceitful fantasist who plagiarised the work of other journalists, altered the wiki entries of opponents with smears, whilst flattering those of his sympathetic circle - and all done using the sock puppet David Rose. – OJ may be an idiot, but an honest idiot imho.
I'd forgotten the wikipedia part. Certainly there is no suggestion that Jones has done - or would do - anything like that. Again credit where credit is due, he's not frightened of facing his enemies in person.
Mr. Royale, worth recalling, though this was glossed over, that most of the sexual harassment complaints made in the Commons (think it was revealed in the press last year) came from men.
But there seems to be an airbrushing of male victims of such things, whether it's grown men in the Commons, or the third of child victims in Rotherham who were male.
There's a lot of that which goes on. Often from drunk MPs (or ex MPs) in their 40s, 50s and 60s who should know better.
Whilst I wouldn't call it harassment, when I was 18-19 years old and went to conferences as a young Conservative, I certainly had one or two incidences of unwelcome attention from that cohort.
They can pull all sorts of tricks: usually around flattering your intelligence, ability, and 'bright future', together with namedropping the bigwigs and explaining how they could help your career with the contacts they have.
On each occasion I extricated myself fairly quickly.
They need to find some common ground with him which I think is possible on some aspects of foreign policy (negotiation not war) and economic policy (balance the budget on current spending over a cycle but borrow to invest; allow the public sector to bid for rail franchises as they come up for renewal and so on). Some policies they'll have to agree to disagree on.
Hopefully TTIP will be killed stone dead when and if it comes before Parliament by a combination of Lab, LD, Green and 1 UKIP plus quite a few Tory MPs, - if it gets that far given German resistance to it.
Does parliament get a vote on it, I thought it was going to be agreed at the EU level (i.e QMV) and pushed out by various directives ?
Is Polly Toynbee really a 'moderate'? I've never really known what to think of her.
@Charles I'm usually a Friday, rather than Saturday person regarding night-out. Though I don't go out on Friday nights that often - I'm not really into the whole clubbing scene (which makes me very unusual for me age). And believe it or not, I go on other sites too (Facebook + Tumblr mainly) while on PB.
Probably bandwagoning. A lot of her articles I feel are just baiting people to get responses.
UK News @UK__News It has been revealed that Nicola Sturgeon is employing 14 spin doctors, costing the taxpayer nearly £1 million a year
@ScottyNational: Doctors: Scot Gov unveil response to A&E problems in Scotland by employing 14 high paid Doctors.The new doctors will be specialising in Spin
I think this is a comment. I would excuse anyone calling OJ an oik.
I wouldn't. I would consider that a grotesque and abusive slur as well as a reprehensible misuse of inflammatory language, and I now call on you to apologise to oiks.
You've made me feel really guilty and I do so apologise.
They need to find some common ground with him which I think is possible on some aspects of foreign policy (negotiation not war) and economic policy (balance the budget on current spending over a cycle but borrow to invest; allow the public sector to bid for rail franchises as they come up for renewal and so on). Some policies they'll have to agree to disagree on.
Hopefully TTIP will be killed stone dead when and if it comes before Parliament by a combination of Lab, LD, Green and 1 UKIP plus quite a few Tory MPs, - if it gets that far given German resistance to it.
Does parliament get a vote on it, I thought it was going to be agreed at the EU level (i.e QMV) and pushed out by various directives ?
I think all nations will get a take-it-or-leave it vote i.e. with no amendments. Otherwise it would get totally bogged down. That is my understanding but I need to check.
Completely off topic: there's only a day to watch this documentary on BBC iPlayer by Dan Cruickshank. Horrifying and deeply deeply saddening. But unmissable.
They need to find some common ground with him which I think is possible on some aspects of foreign policy (negotiation not war) and economic policy (balance the budget on current spending over a cycle but borrow to invest; allow the public sector to bid for rail franchises as they come up for renewal and so on). Some policies they'll have to agree to disagree on.
Hopefully TTIP will be killed stone dead when and if it comes before Parliament by a combination of Lab, LD, Green and 1 UKIP plus quite a few Tory MPs, - if it gets that far given German resistance to it.
Does parliament get a vote on it, I thought it was going to be agreed at the EU level (i.e QMV) and pushed out by various directives ?
I think all nations will get a take-it-or-leave it vote i.e. with no amendments. Otherwise it would get totally bogged down. That is my understanding but I need to check.
It is not crystal clear but it seems likely that approval by all EU member states will be necessary.
Quote from BBC website in May
"A summit of European leaders in December called for a comprehensive agreement by the end of 2015, though the European Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmström has said that is probably unrealistic.
That will be challenging, given the technical complexity and the vigorous opposition. It would then have to be approved by the European Parliament and European Trade Ministers. The Ministers usually vote on trade by what is called qualified majority though unanimity might be required - that is both a legal question and a matter of political judgement.
Depending on the legal nature of the final agreement it might also need to be approved by all the EU member states, and Commissioner Malmström has said that is likely to be necessary. So there is plenty of scope for delays."
I don't get why he's still being paid. He spent five years being obnoxiously wrong.
I can see him doing a Johann Hari in the very near future though. Seems a pretty safe bet, don't you think?
I will say, in fairness to Owen Jones; he's remarkably rude, not very intelligent, frequently wrong (in fact, almost always wrong) dogmatic and arrogant, but I haven't yet caught him falsifying information to support his views. That was the crime that did for Hari and that was orders of magnitude worse than just being a fool. Jones, though he is deeply flawed, also clearly believes what he is saying.
Of course, that could change. But such cases as Hari or Jayston Blair are thankfully very rare (like David Irving in history) and I see no reason to think that Jones will be another.
Did you not see OJ caught out by Andrew Neil misinterpreting millionaires? Worth a watch. He was squirming sufficiently to make a bare patch on the sofa much to the amusement of Portillo & Campbell.
They need to find some common ground with him which I think is possible on some aspects of foreign policy (negotiation not war) and economic policy (balance the budget on current spending over a cycle but borrow to invest; allow the public sector to bid for rail franchises as they come up for renewal and so on). Some policies they'll have to agree to disagree on.
Hopefully TTIP will be killed stone dead when and if it comes before Parliament by a combination of Lab, LD, Green and 1 UKIP plus quite a few Tory MPs, - if it gets that far given German resistance to it.
If TTIP is killed on this side of the Atlantic, proponents of the EU will no longer be able to claim that the EU is a force for free trade in the world, given that the UK could clearly sign a trade deal with North America independently.
Did you not see OJ caught out by Andrew Neil misinterpreting millionaires? Worth a watch. He was squirming sufficiently to make a bare patch on the sofa much to the amusement of Portillo & Campbell.
Not sure whether this was a deliberate attempt to falsify info, it looks more like plain stupidity driven by dumb dogma.
Yes - but I think, as you yourself note, that was an error due to the aforementioned lack of intelligence, not falsification. For somebody who had no understanding of economics it wouldn't actually be that hard an error. He's also been prone to muddling debts and deficit.
Hari, on the other hand, would immediately have said that Neil's figures were wrong and plucked figures for Tory incomes out of the air to justify himself, winding up by saying Neil's questions were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him and rescue the banking system from the forthcoming revolution, throwing in a quote from the Board of Deputies of something they had never said for good measure.
They're both bad, but one is clearly a lot more serious.
Mr. JEO, ha, must disagree. They'll still make the claim. The EU, the eurozone, all that tosh is a triumph of PR nonsense over political, democratic and economic reality.
Corbyn just well full retard all over BBC news. Calling for RBS renationalisation and asking for an apology to the miners harmed under Thatcher. He is from the past.
On Polly Toynbee, I found the most amusing bit in her article when she argues for a windfall wealth tax to eliminate the deficit. Is the premier columnist really not bright enough to realise the deficit needs to be paid every year
Corbyn just well full retard all over BBC news. Calling for RBS renationalisation and asking for an apology to the miners harmed under Thatcher. He is from the past.
I don't get why he's still being paid. He spent five years being obnoxiously wrong.
I can see him doing a Johann Hari in the very near future though. Seems a pretty safe bet, don't you think?
I will say, in fairness to Owen Jones; he's remarkably rude, not very intelligent, frequently wrong (in fact, almost always wrong) dogmatic and arrogant, but I haven't yet caught him falsifying information to support his views. That was the crime that did for Hari and that was orders of magnitude worse than just being a fool. Jones, though he is deeply flawed, also clearly believes what he is saying.
Of course, that could change. But such cases as Hari or Jayston Blair are thankfully very rare (like David Irving in history) and I see no reason to think that Jones will be another.
I don't have your faith in the guy - I think it will come when he's caught out enough, imo you can see hints of it in his twitter behaviour - but I'll not push the line too much.
Surprising to see (1) that Norway allows more asylum applications than almost any EU country (refugees from Russia in the north?) and (2) how many Luxembourg have.
EDITED - although now I see it's per head of population, which is rather more explicable.
Not to mention extremely misleading.
As for 'letting them stay' - refusing their assylum claim is not the same thing as not letting them stay. Not letting them stay would be putting them on a boat. Letting them melt into the black economy IS letting them stay.
I don't get why he's still being paid. He spent five years being obnoxiously wrong.
I can see him doing a Johann Hari in the very near future though. Seems a pretty safe bet, don't you think?
I will say, in fairness to Owen Jones; he's remarkably rude, not very intelligent, frequently wrong (in fact, almost always wrong) dogmatic and arrogant, but I haven't yet caught him falsifying information to support his views. That was the crime that did for Hari and that was orders of magnitude worse than just being a fool. Jones, though he is deeply flawed, also clearly believes what he is saying.
Of course, that could change. But such cases as Hari or Jayston Blair are thankfully very rare (like David Irving in history) and I see no reason to think that Jones will be another.
I don't have your faith in the guy - I think it will come when he's caught out enough, imo you can see hints of it in his twitter behaviour - but I'll not push the line too much.
Well, I could easily be wrong. After all, Hari had his defenders for a very long time as his behaviour became more erratic and outrageous. But there is a difference between a *round manual door opener* on Twitter, and systematic falsification of the evidence to support an untenable position and essentially defraud a number of organisations (e.g. the Orwell Prize) (edited - or of course, running an extensive and defamatory smear campaign on wikipedia using a variety of pseudonyms and repeatedly lying about it). Jones does not appear to have crossed that line yet, and it is to be hoped he never does so.
Mr. JEO, ha, must disagree. They'll still make the claim. The EU, the eurozone, all that tosh is a triumph of PR nonsense over political, democratic and economic reality.
I'm more on the fence than you are, but by far the biggest argument for EU membership is the trade advantages it gives. If they screw this one up, they will have sabotaged both the last round of global WTO talks and also the US-EU deal. It will really have taken a turn for protectionism if that happens.
It's an odd situation - the Conservatives are seen by most as credible but not likeable and the centre-left is seen as more likeable but less credible. This delivered a small Tory election win in 2015 (since people value credibility most if push comes to shove) but it's an essentially unstable situation, vulnerable to populist challengers from any quarter - hence UKIP's failure to collapse as expected. Whether Corbyn can fill that role remains to be seen - if he gets the chance - but it's too complacent for the Tories to assume he won't. Being sceptical about the Ukraine and polite about Hamas or homeopathy don't make up the killer arguments that they suppose.
Really Nick? The Labour Party may be about to elect as leader someone who has chosen to be friends with terrorist organizations with explicitly anit-semitic and genocidal goals and who do not believe in democracy but in the establishment of a theocracy with no room for minorities of any kind.
I would expect Labour to be against fascism, anti-semitism and the use of violence to get your political aims not to call them "friends". That you think this is something of no moment suggests, to be polite, some complacency on your part.
How do you think such links will look when the next Islamist atrocity happens in the UK or to British citizens?
Corbyn just well full retard all over BBC news. Calling for RBS renationalisation and asking for an apology to the miners harmed under Thatcher. He is from the past.
Two separate posts on the live politics feed on the BBC website.
An alternative view of Corbyn's popularity in the Labour party and probably the country is that people are fed up being preached at by so called Professional Politicians and their SPADS. While the LibDems have already paid the price, the bill is still being prepared for the Labour and the Tory parties. It was the SNP who could be considered were the major winners at the last GE.
As to the backlash from the media, just listened to a Radio Scotland piece where just a few years ago, readership of a daily paper was over 70% of adults, nowadays it is just over 40%. I would consider similar figures for England possible. There are now just too many other alternative sources of news and information available.
What the PB Tory's are failing to consider, is that they are the ones who are out of touch with the public mood. Should DC and GO try and attack Corbyn, it could backfire spectacularly on them.
No, this is wrong.
The tories should be unremitting is making fun of Corbyn and turn him into a figure of fun.
Imagine Cameron at PMQs
"Your braying donkey of a leader espouses policies that have been carried out in Venezuela, the Venezuela has not only run out of toilet paper but also beer, more proof that socialists couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery", etc, etc
Is Polly Toynbee really a 'moderate'? I've never really known what to think of her.
@Charles I'm usually a Friday, rather than Saturday person regarding night-out. Though I don't go out on Friday nights that often - I'm not really into the whole clubbing scene (which makes me very unusual for me age). And believe it or not, I go on other sites too (Facebook + Tumblr mainly) while on PB.
Probably bandwagoning. A lot of her articles I feel are just baiting people to get responses.
Yes. She's Mistress of the art. Her male counterpart, Owen Jones, is good at it also.
In fact, you might say that Owen is a Master baiter.
It's an odd situation - the Conservatives are seen by most as credible but not likeable and the centre-left is seen as more likeable but less credible. This delivered a small Tory election win in 2015 (since people value credibility most if push comes to shove) but it's an essentially unstable situation, vulnerable to populist challengers from any quarter - hence UKIP's failure to collapse as expected. Whether Corbyn can fill that role remains to be seen - if he gets the chance - but it's too complacent for the Tories to assume he won't. Being sceptical about the Ukraine and polite about Hamas or homeopathy don't make up the killer arguments that they suppose.
Really Nick? The Labour Party may be about to elect as leader someone who has chosen to be friends with terrorist organizations with explicitly anit-semitic and genocidal goals and who do not believe in democracy but in the establishment of a theocracy with no room for minorities of any kind.
I would expect Labour to be against fascism, anti-semitism and the use of violence to get your political aims not to call them "friends". That you think this is something of no moment suggests, to be polite, some complacency on your part.
How do you think such links will look when the next Islamist atrocity happens in the UK or to British citizens?
Considerably less bad than our current Government's links with the world's biggest sponsor of terror Saudi Arabia?
On Polly Toynbee, I found the most amusing bit in her article when she argues for a windfall wealth tax to eliminate the deficit. Is the premier columnist really not bright enough to realise the deficit needs to be paid every year
No, CIF picked this up. Also she does not realise that her Tuscan villa could be included!
Comments
EDITED - although now I see it's per head of population, which is rather more explicable.
Plan for another 5 years in government.
Mr. Perdix, not sure the eurozone will stay under control, though.
He meant Blair - but the irony was painful.
no comment.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/owen-jones-right-are-mocking-jeremy-corbyn-because-secretly-they-fear-him
Discussing Corbyn's future is hypothetical, I'm simply saying it would be unwise for the tories to underestimate him.
Jones might not be wrong. Past performance is no guarantee of future failure.
I think (if he's elected) it'll be interesting to see how the Tories handle him....
@Morris_Dancer Hmmm, good point.
There is much we could be doing to better manage economic migration from outside the EU - much stiffer penalties for employing illegal immigrants would be an obvious place to start.
I do think Corbyn being a different animal than that they were expected could trip some Tories up, if they are not careful, though fundamentally his problems should not exceed the issues he causes them.
Is there a graph to show what percentage of rejected applications are subsequently deported from those countries?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJ92NbW82M
Has anyone else read and enjoyed this brilliant and wickedly accurate spoof on Her Pollyness:
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polly_Toynbee
As it wont be that secret or hidden - Labour are in for a kicking.
If there was ever a more damning indictment of our broken economic system and the lack of meritocracy in society....
(And of course, although Antifrank apologised for the length, his was much shorter!)
They need to find some common ground with him which I think is possible on some aspects of foreign policy (negotiation not war) and economic policy (balance the budget on current spending over a cycle but borrow to invest; allow the public sector to bid for rail franchises as they come up for renewal and so on). Some policies they'll have to agree to disagree on.
But the main thing is for them to remain polite and respectful not nasty and vindictive like the Tories.
In this way I think we could see centre left LD and more left Labour forming an effective anti-Tory "alliance" joined by the Greens and SNP where it matters. I have put "alliance" in inverted commas as it wouldn't be formal. It would simply be cooperation in their mutual interest to get the Tories out.
To anyone who doesn't follow politics, he always comes across as quite reasonable but we all know that this 'brownite' is Len McCluskey's chief assassin.
Just something for everyone to ponder is fine day!!
I just don;t see the capable moderates going in to bat for Corbyn policies. Not on the doorstep or on the telly.
It is wet, windy and a high surf here today. Had fruit and muesli for breakfast, too wet and cold for sandals, should I grow a beard to keep me warm - have been wearing a winter sweater all week.
There's also the fault line between punters and pundits.
Punters get paid by results, pundits do not. Being right is essential for punters, and optional for pundits.
I can see him doing a Johann Hari in the very near future though. Seems a pretty safe bet, don't you think?
Add hypocrite to his long list of unpleasant character traits.
No to defend it in any way, but the past is another country etc.
This demonstrates a complete lack of tactical nous that I can only applaud and I, for one, am praying he wins.
When he left The Times - he even penned a column apologising for how often he was entirely wrong.
http://labourlist.org/2014/07/ttip-the-nhs-will-be-exempt-but-how-will-the-rest-of-the-deal-effect-us/
Having in the past met some quite creepy (now ex) Tory MPs - who clearly enjoyed the attention of young men, and weren't exactly hiding it - I wonder how deep this scandal truly goes.
Of course, that could change. But such cases as Hari or Jayston Blair are thankfully very rare (like David Irving in history) and I see no reason to think that Jones will be another.
@Charles I'm usually a Friday, rather than Saturday person regarding night-outs. Though I don't go out on Friday nights that often - I'm not really into the whole clubbing scene (which makes me very unusual for me age). And believe it or not, I go on other sites too (Facebook + Tumblr mainly) while on PB.
But there seems to be an airbrushing of male victims of such things, whether it's grown men in the Commons, or the third of child victims in Rotherham who were male.
EDIT That may have been her bandwagoning in retrospect.
UK News @UK__News
It has been revealed that Nicola Sturgeon is employing 14 spin doctors, costing the taxpayer nearly £1 million a year
Whilst I wouldn't call it harassment, when I was 18-19 years old and went to conferences as a young Conservative, I certainly had one or two incidences of unwelcome attention from that cohort.
They can pull all sorts of tricks: usually around flattering your intelligence, ability, and 'bright future', together with namedropping the bigwigs and explaining how they could help your career with the contacts they have.
On each occasion I extricated myself fairly quickly.
Oh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0615mxc/dan-cruickshanks-civilisation-under-attack
Which will probably mean he'll move out to 4
It is not crystal clear but it seems likely that approval by all EU member states will be necessary.
Quote from BBC website in May
"A summit of European leaders in December called for a comprehensive agreement by the end of 2015, though the European Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmström has said that is probably unrealistic.
That will be challenging, given the technical complexity and the vigorous opposition. It would then have to be approved by the European Parliament and European Trade Ministers. The Ministers usually vote on trade by what is called qualified majority though unanimity might be required - that is both a legal question and a matter of political judgement.
Depending on the legal nature of the final agreement it might also need to be approved by all the EU member states, and Commissioner Malmström has said that is likely to be necessary. So there is plenty of scope for delays."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32691589
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSC3RMstJl8
Not sure whether this was a deliberate attempt to falsify info, it looks more like plain stupidity driven by dumb dogma.
“I have made this longer than usual because I have not had time to make it shorter.” - Blaise Pascal
Hari, on the other hand, would immediately have said that Neil's figures were wrong and plucked figures for Tory incomes out of the air to justify himself, winding up by saying Neil's questions were part of an international Jewish conspiracy to discredit him and rescue the banking system from the forthcoming revolution, throwing in a quote from the Board of Deputies of something they had never said for good measure.
They're both bad, but one is clearly a lot more serious.
He is from the past.
As for 'letting them stay' - refusing their assylum claim is not the same thing as not letting them stay. Not letting them stay would be putting them on a boat. Letting them melt into the black economy IS letting them stay.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges
Went to the Corbyn event last night. He's going to lose. I'm pretty sure of that now.
Piece on the Corbyn event up in an hour or so. Explain what I mean. I came away convinced he'd lose, and unbelievably depressed, oddly.
I would expect Labour to be against fascism, anti-semitism and the use of violence to get your political aims not to call them "friends". That you think this is something of no moment suggests, to be polite, some complacency on your part.
How do you think such links will look when the next Islamist atrocity happens in the UK or to British citizens?
The tories should be unremitting is making fun of Corbyn and turn him into a figure of fun.
Imagine Cameron at PMQs
"Your braying donkey of a leader espouses policies that have been carried out in Venezuela, the Venezuela has not only run out of toilet paper but also beer, more proof that socialists couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery", etc, etc
In fact, you might say that Owen is a Master baiter.