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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tim Farron’s LDs the main gainers, leaderless LAB the main

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,202
    'Interestingly when asked to identify the Labour Leadership candidates from a selection of pictures of political leaders and celebrities, just over 10% of the public thought that the Conservative MP and Secretary for Health, Jeremy Hunt, was running for the Labour Leadership election. '
    http://news.sys-con.com/node/3393784
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,447
    HYUFD said:

    Ref looks, one of the first pieces I wrote for PB was on looks.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/07/01/do-bald-guys-always-lose/

    Interesting point, though a few baldies have won, John Howard, Berlusconi, Churchill (in 1951)
    Churchill was fighting against Attlee, so that doesn't count (and nor do Attlee's wins, for the same reason).

    Silvio was more perma-recede than full-on bald.

    John Howard I'll give you - but it's a rare exception.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,051
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    @HYUFD- actually you hit the nail not he head- charisma is the thing you want in politics (as a male), not looks, youth, athleticism.

    Clinton of course., and then Bush (Dubya), Obama, Blair, Mitterand, Schroder.

    Those without include....Miliband (Ed), Brown, Gore, Romney, Osborne, Sarkozy, Abbott, Dukakis, Hague, Howard.

    Women- tougher to define- Merkel, Gandhi and Thatcher have something that resembles something like power which is quite magnetic and attractive.

    It is possible to be good looking and not charismatic but the 2 often go together. I agree with your charismatic figures (you could add Chirac, Cameron, Mandela etc) Agree on most of those you listed without charisma, but Sarkozy is quite charismatic as is Abbott on occasion.

    Womens charisma tends to be projected through authority as you say
    Agreed and my mistake- Sarkozy is charismatic, and possibly Abbott too (in a Putinesque kind of way).

    Cameron is charming rather than charismatic- charisma relies on both charm and self belief, and I think Cameron lacks a little bit on the self belief count (the same with Clegg and Chuka who are both quite charming too).

    Heseltine was (and still is) magnetically charismatic. I saw him at a function recently and he lit up the room.

    Others charismatic politicians......Boris Johnson, as too is Hunt, Gove, and possibly Corbyn.


  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Scott_P said:

    OchEye said:

    One thing that really hasn't been understood by the PB Tory's and other political observers is that Salmond has changed the game.

    There's now an alternative way of looking at politics. Sturgeon has capitalised on this.

    Selling snake oil is not an alternative way of looking at politics.

    It is one of the least original
    But how punters want to buy into the dream. Labour didn't and lost, the SNP played a dream and won Scotland.

    Miliband didn't and lost. Cameron played a nightmare (Sturgeon holding PM Miliband by the short and curlies) and won
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,335
    edited July 2015



    Silvio was more perma-recede than full-on bald.

    Can I interest you in some magic beans?

    http://tinyurl.com/qzyg54r
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    frpenkridgefrpenkridge Posts: 670
    edited July 2015
    A new way of looking at politics? Promise the world, cultivate self-pity and righteous indignation, intimidate opponents, harness prejudices - seems like standard political fare to me.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,447



    Silvio was more perma-recede than full-on bald.

    Can I interest you in some magic beans?

    http://tinyurl.com/qzyg54r
    I'd forgotten that! Ok, he had a transplant. Effective though.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,202

    HYUFD said:

    Ref looks, one of the first pieces I wrote for PB was on looks.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/07/01/do-bald-guys-always-lose/

    Interesting point, though a few baldies have won, John Howard, Berlusconi, Churchill (in 1951)
    Churchill was fighting against Attlee, so that doesn't count (and nor do Attlee's wins, for the same reason).

    Silvio was more perma-recede than full-on bald.

    John Howard I'll give you - but it's a rare exception.
    Churchill maybe discounted then, but Howard's 4 successive wins provides some encouragement for baldies everywhere
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited July 2015
    Swinney strikes again, no matter how many times this SNP Gov are warned, they carry on regardless as they always think they know better than anyone else.
    Guardian - Scotland's private finance infrastructure programme in turmoil after ONS ruling
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,202
    I am sure a few image consultants can help
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,202
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    @HYUFD- actually you hit the nail not he head- charisma is the thing you want in politics (as a male), not looks, youth, athleticism.

    Clinton of course., and then Bush (Dubya), Obama, Blair, Mitterand, Schroder.

    Those without include....Miliband (Ed), Brown, Gore, Romney, Osborne, Sarkozy, Abbott, Dukakis, Hague, Howard.

    Women- tougher to define- Merkel, Gandhi and Thatcher have something that resembles something like power which is quite magnetic and attractive.

    It is possible to be good looking and not charismatic but the 2 often go together. I agree with your charismatic figures (you could add Chirac, Cameron, Mandela etc) Agree on most of those you listed without charisma, but Sarkozy is quite charismatic as is Abbott on occasion.

    Womens charisma tends to be projected through authority as you say
    Agreed and my mistake- Sarkozy is charismatic, and possibly Abbott too (in a Putinesque kind of way).

    Cameron is charming rather than charismatic- charisma relies on both charm and self belief, and I think Cameron lacks a little bit on the self belief count (the same with Clegg and Chuka who are both quite charming too).

    Heseltine was (and still is) magnetically charismatic. I saw him at a function recently and he lit up the room.

    Others charismatic politicians......Boris Johnson, as too is Hunt, Gove, and possibly Corbyn.


    Yes, agree with most of that. I also saw Heseltine speak once, who could certainly command a room, but he was never a team player. Boris is charismatic, Hunt and Gove not in my view, polite yes but that is not quite the same. Corbyn has self belief and some charm, but can also lose it as that C4 interview showed and also he does not present himself in a sharp enough way in terms of his image and appearance
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,014
    edited July 2015
    Politics of envy ;)

    Almost no recession in his hairline anywhere there !
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    edited July 2015
    What about GO's interesting hair, and as for receding hairline of DC's , which is going to meet first, the front or from the centre.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,447
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    @HYUFD- actually you hit the nail not he head- charisma is the thing you want in politics (as a male), not looks, youth, athleticism.

    Clinton of course., and then Bush (Dubya), Obama, Blair, Mitterand, Schroder.

    Those without include....Miliband (Ed), Brown, Gore, Romney, Osborne, Sarkozy, Abbott, Dukakis, Hague, Howard.

    Women- tougher to define- Merkel, Gandhi and Thatcher have something that resembles something like power which is quite magnetic and attractive.

    It is possible to be good looking and not charismatic but the 2 often go together. I agree with your charismatic figures (you could add Chirac, Cameron, Mandela etc) Agree on most of those you listed without charisma, but Sarkozy is quite charismatic as is Abbott on occasion.

    Womens charisma tends to be projected through authority as you say
    Agreed and my mistake- Sarkozy is charismatic, and possibly Abbott too (in a Putinesque kind of way).

    Cameron is charming rather than charismatic- charisma relies on both charm and self belief, and I think Cameron lacks a little bit on the self belief count (the same with Clegg and Chuka who are both quite charming too).

    Heseltine was (and still is) magnetically charismatic. I saw him at a function recently and he lit up the room.

    Others charismatic politicians......Boris Johnson, as too is Hunt, Gove, and possibly Corbyn.


    Yes, agree with most of that. I also saw Heseltine speak once, who could certainly command a room, but he was never a team player. Boris is charismatic, Hunt and Gove not in my view, polite yes but that is not quite the same. Corbyn has self belief and some charm, but can also lose it as that C4 interview showed and also he does not present himself in a sharp enough way in terms of his image and appearance
    Another near-relation of charisma is presence, which doesn't do anything on the likeability score either way but does help to make a leader.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,202

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    @HYUFD- actually you hit the nail not he head- charisma is the thing you want in politics (as a male), not looks, youth, athleticism.

    Clinton of course., and then Bush (Dubya), Obama, Blair, Mitterand, Schroder.

    Those without include....Miliband (Ed), Brown, Gore, Romney, Osborne, Sarkozy, Abbott, Dukakis, Hague, Howard.

    Women- tougher to define- Merkel, Gandhi and Thatcher have something that resembles something like power which is quite magnetic and attractive.

    It is possible to be good looking and not charismatic but the 2 often go together. I agree with your charismatic figures (you could add Chirac, Cameron, Mandela etc) Agree on most of those you listed without charisma, but Sarkozy is quite charismatic as is Abbott on occasion.

    Womens charisma tends to be projected through authority as you say
    Agreed and my mistake- Sarkozy is charismatic, and possibly Abbott too (in a Putinesque kind of way).

    Cameron is charming rather than charismatic- charisma relies on both charm and self belief, and I think Cameron lacks a little bit on the self belief count (the same with Clegg and Chuka who are both quite charming too).

    Heseltine was (and still is) magnetically charismatic. I saw him at a function recently and he lit up the room.

    Others charismatic politicians......Boris Johnson, as too is Hunt, Gove, and possibly Corbyn.


    Yes, agree with most of that. I also saw Heseltine speak once, who could certainly command a room, but he was never a team player. Boris is charismatic, Hunt and Gove not in my view, polite yes but that is not quite the same. Corbyn has self belief and some charm, but can also lose it as that C4 interview showed and also he does not present himself in a sharp enough way in terms of his image and appearance
    Another near-relation of charisma is presence, which doesn't do anything on the likeability score either way but does help to make a leader.
    Indeed, but given a choice between the 2 charisma normally wins
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    @HYUFD- actually you hit the nail not he head- charisma is the thing you want in politics (as a male), not looks, youth, athleticism.

    Clinton of course., and then Bush (Dubya), Obama, Blair, Mitterand, Schroder.

    Those without include....Miliband (Ed), Brown, Gore, Romney, Osborne, Sarkozy, Abbott, Dukakis, Hague, Howard.

    Women- tougher to define- Merkel, Gandhi and Thatcher have something that resembles something like power which is quite magnetic and attractive.

    It is possible to be good looking and not charismatic but the 2 often go together. I agree with your charismatic figures (you could add Chirac, Cameron, Mandela etc) Agree on most of those you listed without charisma, but Sarkozy is quite charismatic as is Abbott on occasion.

    Womens charisma tends to be projected through authority as you say
    Agreed and my mistake- Sarkozy is charismatic, and possibly Abbott too (in a Putinesque kind of way).

    Cameron is charming rather than charismatic- charisma relies on both charm and self belief, and I think Cameron lacks a little bit on the self belief count (the same with Clegg and Chuka who are both quite charming too).

    Heseltine was (and still is) magnetically charismatic. I saw him at a function recently and he lit up the room.

    Others charismatic politicians......Boris Johnson, as too is Hunt, Gove, and possibly Corbyn.


    Yes, agree with most of that. I also saw Heseltine speak once, who could certainly command a room, but he was never a team player. Boris is charismatic, Hunt and Gove not in my view, polite yes but that is not quite the same. Corbyn has self belief and some charm, but can also lose it as that C4 interview showed and also he does not present himself in a sharp enough way in terms of his image and appearance
    Another near-relation of charisma is presence, which doesn't do anything on the likeability score either way but does help to make a leader.
    Indeed, but given a choice between the 2 charisma normally wins
    There's nothing quite like Norwegian charisma ;)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,202
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    @HYUFD- actually you hit the nail not he head- charisma is the thing you want in politics (as a male), not looks, youth, athleticism.

    Clinton of course., and then Bush (Dubya), Obama, Blair, Mitterand, Schroder.

    Those without include....Miliband (Ed), Brown, Gore, Romney, Osborne, Sarkozy, Abbott, Dukakis, Hague, Howard.

    Women- tougher to define- Merkel, Gandhi and Thatcher have something that resembles something like power which is quite magnetic and attractive.

    It is possible to be good looking and not charismatic but the 2 often go together. I agree with your charismatic figures (you could add Chirac, Cameron, Mandela etc) Agree on most of those you listed without charisma, but Sarkozy is quite charismatic as is Abbott on occasion.

    Womens charisma tends to be projected through authority as you say
    Agreed and my mistake- Sarkozy is charismatic, and possibly Abbott too (in a Putinesque kind of way).

    Cameron is charming rather than charismatic- charisma relies on both charm and self belief, and I think Cameron lacks a little bit on the self belief count (the same with Clegg and Chuka who are both quite charming too).

    Heseltine was (and still is) magnetically charismatic. I saw him at a function recently and he lit up the room.

    Others charismatic politicians......Boris Johnson, as too is Hunt, Gove, and possibly Corbyn.


    Yes, agree with most of that. I also saw Heseltine speak once, who could certainly command a room, but he was never a team player. Boris is charismatic, Hunt and Gove not in my view, polite yes but that is not quite the same. Corbyn has self belief and some charm, but can also lose it as that C4 interview showed and also he does not present himself in a sharp enough way in terms of his image and appearance
    Another near-relation of charisma is presence, which doesn't do anything on the likeability score either way but does help to make a leader.
    Indeed, but given a choice between the 2 charisma normally wins
    There's nothing quite like Norwegian charisma ;)
    I believe that is negative charisma, ie the complete absence of charm or grace
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    @HYUFD- actually you hit the nail not he head- charisma is the thing you want in politics (as a male), not looks, youth, athleticism.

    Clinton of course., and then Bush (Dubya), Obama, Blair, Mitterand, Schroder.

    Those without include....Miliband (Ed), Brown, Gore, Romney, Osborne, Sarkozy, Abbott, Dukakis, Hague, Howard.

    Women- tougher to define- Merkel, Gandhi and Thatcher have something that resembles something like power which is quite magnetic and attractive.

    It is possible to be good looking and not charismatic but the 2 often go together. I agree with your charismatic figures (you could add Chirac, Cameron, Mandela etc) Agree on most of those you listed without charisma, but Sarkozy is quite charismatic as is Abbott on occasion.

    Womens charisma tends to be projected through authority as you say
    Agreed and my mistake- Sarkozy is charismatic, and possibly Abbott too (in a Putinesque kind of way).

    Cameron is charming rather than charismatic- charisma relies on both charm and self belief, and I think Cameron lacks a little bit on the self belief count (the same with Clegg and Chuka who are both quite charming too).

    Heseltine was (and still is) magnetically charismatic. I saw him at a function recently and he lit up the room.

    Others charismatic politicians......Boris Johnson, as too is Hunt, Gove, and possibly Corbyn.


    Yes, agree with most of that. I also saw Heseltine speak once, who could certainly command a room, but he was never a team player. Boris is charismatic, Hunt and Gove not in my view, polite yes but that is not quite the same. Corbyn has self belief and some charm, but can also lose it as that C4 interview showed and also he does not present himself in a sharp enough way in terms of his image and appearance
    Another near-relation of charisma is presence, which doesn't do anything on the likeability score either way but does help to make a leader.
    Indeed, but given a choice between the 2 charisma normally wins
    There's nothing quite like Norwegian charisma ;)
    I believe that is negative charisma, ie the complete absence of charm or grace
    That's Iranian charisma.....
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited July 2015
    Definition of charisma - a rump with a T on the front

    - and independent hair
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,202
    Tim_B said:

    Definition of charisma - a rump with a T on the front

    - and independent hair

    For Republicans anyway at the moment it seems
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    Definition of charisma - a rump with a T on the front

    - and independent hair

    For Republicans anyway at the moment it seems
    He seems to be defying gravity at present. The debate next Thursday may well be interesting. He keeps saying he's never debated, will not practice, and will be himself.

    His ego is so big that his helicopter registration is G-TRMP
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,202
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    Definition of charisma - a rump with a T on the front

    - and independent hair

    For Republicans anyway at the moment it seems
    He seems to be defying gravity at present. The debate next Thursday may well be interesting. He keeps saying he's never debated, will not practice, and will be himself.

    His ego is so big that his helicopter registration is G-TRMP
    Yes, as if there were not enough egos in the debate hall I am not sure if they have enough room to include his as well
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    Why doesn't Burnham push the last Ipsos Mori poll more?

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3602/Burnham-leads-the-pack-but-all-Labour-hopefuls-have-work-to-do.aspx

    He was ahead as best potential PM by 12% over Cooper and 19% over Corbyn.

    And, most importantly, ahead of the "unbeatable" Osborne, and not a million miles off Boris or May.

    I think it now has to be concluded that Burnham is more electable than Cooper - this many polls couldn't be wrong, surely. For whatever reason, the public just don't seem to like Yvette.
    He is above all of them when you take the net score (ie positive vs negative)
    Well, that's true, but to be fair I think we should probably assume more of the "Don't Knows" would break for a negative opinion.

    However, I would still say that the fact more people in absolute numbers say they're positive about Burnham being PM than Osborne being PM, suggests Labour have reason to fancy their chances in 2020 if that's the match-up, despite the ridiculous Tory hubris / Labour fatalism rife right now.
    It may sound ridiculous, but Burnham is also quite good looking, and the better looking candidate normally wins. Cameron was certainly better looking than Miliband and Brown, Blair was better looking than Howard and Hague and Major, Major better looking than Kinnock, Thatcher better looking than Kinnock and Foot etc.

    In that case Labour should select Colin Morgan (he plays Leo in Humans) and surround him with gorgeous pouting Starbirds.
This discussion has been closed.