Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tim Farron’s LDs the main gainers, leaderless LAB the main

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited July 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tim Farron’s LDs the main gainers, leaderless LAB the main losers in the July Local By-Election + overnight results

Hilton, Woodside and Stockethill
Result: Scottish National Party 1,690 (55% +19%), Labour 771 (25% -20%), Conservative 350 (11%, no candidate in 2012), Green Party 130 (4% +1%), Liberal Democrats 125 (4% unchanged)
Scottish National Party HOLD on the first count with a majority of 919 (30%) on a swing of 19.5% from Labour to SNP

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    edited July 2015
    First..... Looking good for the Lib Dems.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited July 2015
    I can't see the pretty picture.

    But looking at the result, Con + 1, no other changes = "LD main gainers"

    LOL!

    Edit:

    Hilton: LD 4% (unchanged)
    Kincorth: LD 7% (-1%)
    North Hykeham: LD 3% (no prior candidate)
    College: LD 11% (no priority candidate)
    Droitwich 11% (-4%)

    Where are the gains?
  • scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    Hardly the right day for such a headline on the Libs.

    Last night in a variety of contests in Scotland and England the Lib/Dems managed 11%, 11%, 3%, 7% and 4%!!!!!

    The only consistant theme from July's local contests is that the SNP reign supreme in Scotland. All three of the seats they have won they have been behind on 2012 results and have taken all three in a landslide.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    edited July 2015
    Cheers, My. Hayfield.

    Can't read too much into it yet, but I do wonder if that will become the theme of this Parliament (the leftwing but not insane voters leaping away from Comrade Corbyn's Communist Cabal).

    FPT: Mr. Disraeli, ey up, ye soft southern basterd. Nowt wrong wi' dialect.

    Oddly, when I was at university a woman I was talking to thought I might be from the south, though she couldn't place where. My accent is (or was, at least) not overpoweringly Yorkshirish.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Is it me or is the SNP getting stronger election results than even at the GE ?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Kincorth, Nigg and Cove.

    Sure it is charming - but sounds like a firm of Solicitors.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596



    Oddly, when I was at university a woman I was talking to thought I might be from the south, though she couldn't place where. .

    Doncaster?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    ROOOOOOOooooooooT..!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    20 to win
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Charles said:

    I can't see the pretty picture.

    Same here. It's very incongruous!
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    If Corbyn wins the Libs could easily pick up votes from labour
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Kincorth, Nigg and Cove.

    Sure it is charming - but sounds like a firm of Solicitors.

    I always liked the name Haggle, Swerve and Charlatan that I saw once.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Dugarbandier, certainly not.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Charles said:

    I can't see the pretty picture.

    But looking at the result, Con + 1, no other changes = "LD main gainers"

    LOL!

    Edit:

    Hilton: LD 4% (unchanged)
    Kincorth: LD 7% (-1%)
    North Hykeham: LD 3% (no prior candidate)
    College: LD 11% (no priority candidate)
    Droitwich 11% (-4%)

    Where are the gains?

    He's looking at the monthly numbers :-)

    But really the headline should be:

    "LibDems benefit from a couple of council by-elections in South West London."
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    If Corbyn wins the Libs could easily pick up votes from labour .

    Think so? I'm not so sure.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Mr. Dugarbandier, certainly not.

    Wakey?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Taffys, I was going to say that voters have to go somewhere, but they don't. They can just not vote.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    edited July 2015
    taffys said:

    If Corbyn wins the Libs could easily pick up votes from labour .

    Think so? I'm not so sure.

    We'll see. I would have thought the inevitable infighting that would follow a Corbyn victory would benefit UKIP, the LibDems and the Conservatives, but the party's veer to the left would probably be bad for the Greens.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2015
    Charles said:

    Kincorth, Nigg and Cove.

    Sure it is charming - but sounds like a firm of Solicitors.

    I always liked the name Haggle, Swerve and Charlatan that I saw once.
    Dodgy ground Charles, who was it that used to love saying: My banker is a Hoare? :lol:
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Charles said:

    Kincorth, Nigg and Cove.

    Sure it is charming - but sounds like a firm of Solicitors.

    I always liked the name Haggle, Swerve and Charlatan that I saw once.
    Click and clack, the Tappet Brothers on NPR always used to run fake credits at the end of their car problem broadcast. Their lawyers were Grabbit, Grabbit and Run.

    I also liked their car service: Pikop Andropov
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Burnham coming in on Betfair, maybe just a reaction?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Dugarbandier, I think she thought I was from Kent or Sussex or some such southern realm. I am from Yorkshire [it is known], but apparently lack the accent.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What do you call the locals?

    Kincorth, Nigg and Cove.

    Sure it is charming - but sounds like a firm of Solicitors.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045
    4 overs extension to the afternoon session. 15 runs to get!
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Plato said:

    What do you call the locals?

    Kincorth, Nigg and Cove.

    Sure it is charming - but sounds like a firm of Solicitors.

    I don’t follow - Is this a knock knock joke? :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    Mr. Taffys, I was going to say that voters have to go somewhere, but they don't. They can just not vote.

    Some will stay home... some will vote Conservative... some UKIP... some LibDem...

    A Labour implosion under a Corbyn leadership would, of course, benefit the Conservatives most of all.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    11 to go... Question of time now.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Dugarbandier, I think she thought I was from Kent or Sussex or some such southern realm. I am from Yorkshire [it is known], but apparently lack the accent.

    It is quite clear, Mr Dancer, that she was trying to chat you up. I hope you behaved appropriately.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Kincorth, Nigg and Cove.

    Sure it is charming - but sounds like a firm of Solicitors.

    I always liked the name Haggle, Swerve and Charlatan that I saw once.
    Dodgy ground Charles, who was it that used to love saying: My banker is a Hoare? :lol:
    Jack Aubrey I believe
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    If Corbyn wins, which a month ago was out of the question, I can see the party splitting in two, an alliance with the Libs similar to the SDLP and a loony left mob. I couldn't envisage any of the shadow cabinet Ed had serving under Corbyn, my guess is they'll break away.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT Never known much about Prince Philip, interesting docu on C4 http://www.channel4.com/programmes/prince-philip-the-plot-to-make-a-king
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Mr. Dugarbandier, I think she thought I was from Kent or Sussex or some such southern realm. I am from Yorkshire [it is known], but apparently lack the accent.

    Sorry for annoying you, just enjoying myself writing the names of some Yorkshire towns, in remembrance of times past :)

    (Armley, Pudsey, moortown, Burley. Castleford)

    And on that note, Goodnight!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045
    edited July 2015
    Edgbaston crowd in full song now "Stand up, if you're 2-1 up. Sit down, if you're 2-1 down"
    Still six runs to get through.
    Edit - There's four of them. I'm finally relaxing!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Charles, I think that deeply unlikely.

    And one is always a gentleman.

    Mr. 63, I'm not so sure. Labour are sheep, as I've said many times before. A full-blown split is hard for me to see (on the other hand, I never saw a potential Corbyn victory coming either).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045
    Great effort from England, although for everyone's nerves as well as the record books it should have been finished yesterday. Credit to Bell for a good 65 in the second innings.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Dugarbandier, not annoyed, just bemused.

    Yorkshire's a splendid place, so wanting to reminisce about all the excellent things that've occurred there is entirely understandable.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    ENGLAND HAVE WON! :smiley:

    Southam, you can come from behind the sofa now.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    If Corbyn wins, which a month ago was out of the question, I can see the party splitting in two, an alliance with the Libs similar to the SDLP and a loony left mob. I couldn't envisage any of the shadow cabinet Ed had serving under Corbyn, my guess is they'll break away.

    Not so sure about that.

    Very difficult to break away and be successful. Easier to oppose and fight from within and hope enough come to their senses, as you see it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    philiph said:

    If Corbyn wins, which a month ago was out of the question, I can see the party splitting in two, an alliance with the Libs similar to the SDLP and a loony left mob. I couldn't envisage any of the shadow cabinet Ed had serving under Corbyn, my guess is they'll break away.

    Not so sure about that.

    Very difficult to break away and be successful. Easier to oppose and fight from within and hope enough come to their senses, as you see it.
    You wouldn't want a militant tendency undermining the will of the majority of the members.

    Perhaps Corbyn should lead a purge?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    We win!
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited July 2015
    Trivia quiz. Four of England's all time top 50 test run scorers were in today's test side. Cook, Bell and Root are there. Who is the fourth? (Without Googling it)

    PS it is obvious once you think about it
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474



    Mr. 63, I'm not so sure. Labour are sheep, as I've said many times before.

    Indeed. They all sat on their hands en masse during the Brown/Milliband years.

    Only now, are dissenting voices raised to say 'Yes, I always knew he was a wrong un'
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    MTimT said:

    Trivia quiz. Four of England's all time top 50 test run scorers were in today's test side. Cook, Bell and Root are there. Who is the fourth? (Without Googling it)

    PS it is obvious once you think about it

    Broad I guess
  • Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    I agree that "if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition."

    But, Farron is closer to Corbyn in economic and financial policies. The LD party under Farron is not the centrist party that Clegg presented at the GE.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece
  • MTimT said:

    Trivia quiz. Four of England's all time top 50 test run scorers were in today's test side. Cook, Bell and Root are there. Who is the fourth? (Without Googling it)

    PS it is obvious once you think about it

    Broad?
    Has been in the side for more than twice as long as Root and has about half his average.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Man of the match should be Jimmy I think, more economical in getting his 7 wickets and the main factor in the first rolling over in innings 1 which won us the match really.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    I agree that "if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition."

    But, Farron is closer to Corbyn in economic and financial policies. The LD party under Farron is not the centrist party that Clegg presented at the GE.
    That's interesting, perhaps Corbyn gets into bed with Farron and we have a new new labour? My point is I can't see the sharp suits and spads working under Corbyn, something will have to give.

  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Plato said:

    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece

    Makes more sense than Qatar hosting the football. 2022 is the year of crazy. Maybe the UK should bid to host the Tour de France?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    I agree that "if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition."

    But, Farron is closer to Corbyn in economic and financial policies. The LD party under Farron is not the centrist party that Clegg presented at the GE.
    I would have thought that a Farron led LibDems will be a party of "We're against that! And that! And the other thing!"
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    Trivia quiz. Four of England's all time top 50 test run scorers were in today's test side. Cook, Bell and Root are there. Who is the fourth? (Without Googling it)

    PS it is obvious once you think about it

    Broad I guess
    Yep. Both Broad and Root have entered that elite this summer. Root is at 42, Broad at 49.

    Root's average is over 55. That puts him in company with only Hobbs, Hammond, Hutton, Suttcliffe and Barrington.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Plato said:

    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece

    There are quite a few ski resorts in China, I think.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    edited July 2015
    Top class from Bell and Root - almost a pleasure to watch. ;-)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    :lol:
    tpfkar said:

    Plato said:

    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece

    Makes more sense than Qatar hosting the football. 2022 is the year of crazy. Maybe the UK should bid to host the Tour de France?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045
    edited July 2015
    MTimT said:

    Trivia quiz. Four of England's all time top 50 test run scorers were in today's test side. Cook, Bell and Root are there. Who is the fourth? (Without Googling it)

    PS it is obvious once you think about it

    Broad (from lots of matches rather than a high average!)?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    I agree that "if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition."

    But, Farron is closer to Corbyn in economic and financial policies. The LD party under Farron is not the centrist party that Clegg presented at the GE.
    8 seats.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Interestingly Aussie are only 3/1 to win the ashes after this...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Plato said:

    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece

    There are quite a few ski resorts in China, I think.

    But not in Beijing
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    Apparently the Bird’s Nest will be reused for the ceremonies, and the Water Cube into the curling venue.

    Ski and sliding events will be outside the city at mountain venues currently a few hours’ drive away but reached in 2022 by bullet trains. So, its a mammoth engineering exercise - but no one doubts the Chinese will be on time and on spec.
    rcs1000 said:

    Plato said:

    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece

    There are quite a few ski resorts in China, I think.

  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
  • Burnham coming in on Betfair, maybe just a reaction?

    I really can't see why. I am now seeing it much more likely Cooper will beat him if CLP meetings and surveys are anything to go by.

    CLP nominations finish tonight, so will be interesting to see final tally. Perhaps people still see Burnham as value as he was so low before, I'd be inclined to discount that as the dynamics have very much changed since he started favourite.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Plato said:

    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece

    There are quite a few ski resorts in China, I think.

    But not in Beijing
    But you're an hour away from ski resorts in Albertville, and two in Vancouver.

    So it's hardly an unprecedented distance from the slopes.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    Nobody on the left (broadly defined) wants to go back to the script of the 80s. We all know how that turned out. Labour has very tactical or strategic options. But it does have a lot of MPs who would at least like to hold their own seats. Surely the most likely outcome is for an outbreak of surprising party unity behind whoever wins, including Corbyn. The left (as in of the Labour party) don't in any case have the manpower to run a full shadow cabinet so they'll be obliged to be co-operative. The non-left (as in of the Labour Party) can use their muscle in the parliamentary party to get an acceptable programme adopted. If they are confrontational they risk the newly left party members slinging them out, so they have a huge incentive to at the very least be emollient and probably to be genuinely helpful to their comrades.

    The result might broaden the appeal of Labour by bringing on board currently disaffected voters. It might not win back the current Tory voters, but governments usually find ways of doing that. The Tories are sitting pretty at the moment but they haven't discovered the philosphers' stone. And remember that a lot of those Tory voters came from the Lib Dems. They might well find a way back. They have after all, got very little else to do with their time. They are already making some headway in the bits of London they recently controlled.

    The media might have a right wing bias but they have an even bigger tell a good story to keep people interested bias. You can't beat knock'em down only to set 'em up again. "Nobody predicted 2 years ago when Labour was falling apart that under x it would be a united and effective opposition with an opinion poll lead of y points".

    It might sound far fetched now, but think what an accurate prediction of the 2015 election would have sounded like in 2010.

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Disraeli said:
    Presumably on the basis of these numbers, and Labour at 35% to the Tories mere 28%, we can also proclaim "Corbyn brings Labour back from the dead to take the lead from Babyeaters"
  • scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    Pulpstar

    You are right. The three local by elections have shown 20% plus swings Lab to SNP compared to an election in 2012 where the two parties were level. That that the NATS are some 40 per cent ahead of Labour compared to less than 30 per cent in the election.

    These are just local contests of course but the trend is clear enough. Ceratinly there is no let up in the SNP surge.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    I've been to Beijing twice in December. It's the coldest place I have ever been. Absolutely frozen, painful to breathe. Not many mountains though.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Mr recidivist, I believe Corbyn has never served in cabinet whether shadow or not, from where I'm sat he has support from members but not from those perceived as being seniors, I can't envisage these people uniting behind him when their principles are so fundamentally different. Cooper, having see her husband booted out effectively becomes a back bencher, I'm not sure these fragile egos can take that. He'll have to fill his cabinet with people he can trust and rely on, no idea who they are, I doubt he knows.

    As I say its all guesswork but the Corbyn effect is fascinating.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited July 2015
    tpfkar said:

    Plato said:

    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece

    Makes more sense than Qatar hosting the football. 2022 is the year of crazy. Maybe the UK should bid to host the Tour de France?
    That would be interesting.

    Stage 1, Folkestone to Cobham Services.

    The riders emerge from the Channel Tunnel, 3 illegal immigrants hanging off each bicycle...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It'd be useful to have a listing of Corbynites within Labour that he would naturally seek to appoint in a Shad Cab.

    Mr recidivist, I believe Corbyn has never served in cabinet whether shadow or not, from where I'm sat he has support from members but not from those perceived as being seniors, I can't envisage these people uniting behind him when their principles are so fundamentally different. Cooper, having see her husband booted out effectively becomes a back bencher, I'm not sure these fragile egos can take that. He'll have to fill his cabinet with people he can trust and rely on, no idea who they are, I doubt he knows.

    As I say its all guesswork but the Corbyn effect is fascinating.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    I've been to Beijing twice in December. It's the coldest place I have ever been. Absolutely frozen, painful to breathe. Not many mountains though.

    I've been there in September/October. Nice weather although it could get very windy.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Latest Clinton/Bush poll puts Bush 1% ahead:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Miss Plato, Groucho, Harpo, Zeppo... :p
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Which one is Diane?!

    Miss Plato, Groucho, Harpo, Zeppo... :p

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Miss Plato, Gummo?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Silliness aside, worth recalling the incredulity and mockery that occurred when Boris was first touted as a potential mayoral candidate.

    Only Ave It had the clarity of thought and wisdom to foresee what would happen.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    Mr recidivist, I believe Corbyn has never served in cabinet whether shadow or not, from where I'm sat he has support from members but not from those perceived as being seniors, I can't envisage these people uniting behind him when their principles are so fundamentally different. Cooper, having see her husband booted out effectively becomes a back bencher, I'm not sure these fragile egos can take that. He'll have to fill his cabinet with people he can trust and rely on, no idea who they are, I doubt he knows.

    As I say its all guesswork but the Corbyn effect is fascinating.

    I bet he'd appoint Kendall to a senior role more quickly than he would Burnham or even Cooper.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Cheers, My. Hayfield.

    Can't read too much into it yet, but I do wonder if that will become the theme of this Parliament (the leftwing but not insane voters leaping away from Comrade Corbyn's Communist Cabal).

    FPT: Mr. Disraeli, ey up, ye soft southern basterd. Nowt wrong wi' dialect.

    Oddly, when I was at university a woman I was talking to thought I might be from the south, though she couldn't place where. My accent is (or was, at least) not overpoweringly Yorkshirish.

    When I was at Uni at Leeds doing Chem Eng, I had digs in Hunslet. With my slight Somerset-ish Oxford accent, I was called posh and every girl in the area was told by their mothers to be friendly and nice to me. It was very amusing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Silliness aside, worth recalling the incredulity and mockery that occurred when Boris was first touted as a potential mayoral candidate.

    True enough, and even then that he could be a credible leadership contender, which even if people personally find him silly or objectionable, he would be right now if Cameron had lost, so nothing can ever be ruled out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,804

    Mr recidivist, I believe Corbyn has never served in cabinet whether shadow or not, from where I'm sat he has support from members but not from those perceived as being seniors, I can't envisage these people uniting behind him when their principles are so fundamentally different. Cooper, having see her husband booted out effectively becomes a back bencher, I'm not sure these fragile egos can take that. He'll have to fill his cabinet with people he can trust and rely on, no idea who they are, I doubt he knows.

    As I say its all guesswork but the Corbyn effect is fascinating.

    Dennis Skinner for SCE?

    Now that would be entertaining...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    EPG said:

    tpfkar said:

    taffys said:

    Would the tories have won the1983 election if Argentina had not invaded?

    Discuss with examples.

    Other counterfactual on my mind at the moment - if 2015 had been John McDonnell's turn, or Diane Abbott's instead of Jeremy Corbyn's as the standard-bearer of the left - would they be doing so well?

    In other words, is it just that 2015 is the moment for the left - or is it that Jeremy Corbyn can articulate it better than before?

    ... lifestyle as a modest-living teetotal cyclist is fitting for a decade in which austerity is seen as virtuous.
    I know that doesn't mean the economic austerity that is all the rage thesedays, but I still find it amusing Corbyn may be doing particularly well in part because of the popularity, or virtuousness of personal austerity.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited July 2015

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    Nobody on the left (broadly defined) wants to go back to the script of the 80s. We all know how that turned out. Labour has very tactical or strategic options. But it does have a lot of MPs who would at least like to hold their own seats. Surely the most likely outcome is for an outbreak of surprising party unity behind whoever wins, including Corbyn. The left (as in of the Labour party) don't in any case have the manpower to run a full shadow cabinet so they'll be obliged to be co-operative. The non-left (as in of the Labour Party) can use their muscle in the parliamentary party to get an acceptable programme adopted. If they are confrontational they risk the newly left party members slinging them out, so they have a huge incentive to at the very least be emollient and probably to be genuinely helpful to their comrades.

    The result might broaden the appeal of Labour by bringing on board currently disaffected voters. It might not win back the current Tory voters, but governments usually find ways of doing that. The Tories are sitting pretty at the moment but they haven't discovered the philosphers' stone. And remember that a lot of those Tory voters came from the Lib Dems. They might well find a way back. They have after all, got very little else to do with their time. They are already making some headway in the bits of London they recently controlled.

    The media might have a right wing bias but they have an even bigger tell a good story to keep people interested bias. You can't beat knock'em down only to set 'em up again. "Nobody predicted 2 years ago when Labour was falling apart that under x it would be a united and effective opposition with an opinion poll lead of y points".

    It might sound far fetched now, but think what an accurate prediction of the 2015 election would have sounded like in 2010.

    Would Corbyn have a shadow cabinet from sources similar to those used by Farron'? More outsiders than MPs.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited July 2015
    O/T

    The Glasgow bin lorry crash investigation makes grim reading - all entirely avoidable.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-33732335

  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Plato said:

    Umm Beijing to host 2022 Winter Olympics - who needs snow, they'll just make it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article4513874.ece


    Why not Qatar? :)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Financier, one trusts you enjoyed your time there.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited July 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    I agree that "if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition."

    But, Farron is closer to Corbyn in economic and financial policies. The LD party under Farron is not the centrist party that Clegg presented at the GE.
    I would have thought that a Farron led LibDems will be a party of "We're against that! And that! And the other thing!"
    Yes, which fits well with protests and Corbyn and the Unions.

    oooo look a road that needs repair. Pointypolitics
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Afternoon all :)

    I would have liked to have commented on the previous thread but there you go...

    Political parties win from Opposition under one of two circumstances - either you move to the electorate or the electorate moves to you. Blair and Cameron fall into the former category, Thatcher arguably into the latter.

    The latter doesn't happen that often - arguably it did in the 70s. Could it happen in the 10s ? At this point, it's hard to imagine but we live in a fragile and volatile world. To be confident the current Conservative brand will be as popular in five years as it is now seems courageous.

    Big poll leads at this stage mean nothing.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2132183/Going-viral-The-Finger-Shame--website-devoted-Lib-Dems-point.html

    rcs1000 said:

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    I agree that "if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition."

    But, Farron is closer to Corbyn in economic and financial policies. The LD party under Farron is not the centrist party that Clegg presented at the GE.
    I would have thought that a Farron led LibDems will be a party of "We're against that! And that! And the other thing!"
    Yes, which fits well with protests and Corbyn and the Unions.

    oooo look a road that needs repair. Pointypolitics
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I would have liked to have commented on the previous thread but there you go...

    Political parties win from Opposition under one of two circumstances - either you move to the electorate or the electorate moves to you. Blair and Cameron fall into the former category, Thatcher arguably into the latter.

    The latter doesn't happen that often - arguably it did in the 70s. Could it happen in the 10s ? At this point, it's hard to imagine but we live in a fragile and volatile world. To be confident the current Conservative brand will be as popular in five years as it is now seems courageous.

    Big poll leads at this stage mean nothing.

    Thatcher also benefitted from Winter of Discontent and austerity, as well as the tiny Labour majority, which combined to render any move to the centre almost pointless. In my electability-versus-agenda-implementation comparison FPT, the seat situation meant the Conservative's need for extra electability was small. The ideological push in 1979-83 was not much and there were few big changes to policy in the first term apart from the 1981 Budget. Then Labour helped by splitting, and it was easier to move the centre from government from there on.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    rcs1000 said:

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    I agree that "if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition."

    But, Farron is closer to Corbyn in economic and financial policies. The LD party under Farron is not the centrist party that Clegg presented at the GE.
    I would have thought that a Farron led LibDems will be a party of "We're against that! And that! And the other thing!"
    Yes, which fits well with protests and Corbyn and the Unions.

    oooo look a road that needs repair. Pointypolitics
    Oppositions do tend to oppose things.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. EPG, what are your voting intentions for Labour's new leader? Just curious, as the schoolgirl said to the bishop.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    Mr. EPG, what are your voting intentions for Labour's new leader? Just curious, as the schoolgirl said to the bishop.

    Well, of course, I prefer the current government to Labour (though probably preferring the Coalition to this one). Perhaps it just sounds differently on here because I believe the conscience of every consensus needs a scourge, even a consensus as intelligent and pleasant as PB comments. Give me a Labour ballot and it would be right to left, because I genuinely believe they could win in 2020 under any of the candidates if things go wrong over Europe, Scotland, an economic crisis or (God forbid) something even more serious.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    edited July 2015
    Mr. Song, indeed, but unless a credible alternative is proposed constant opposition reduces a party to being the political embodiment of the Harry Enfield character: "I don't believe you wanted to do that."

    Edited extra bit: Mr. EPG, my gast is flabbered that you prefer a Conservative government to a Labour one.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    TGOHF said:

    O/T

    The Glasgow bin lorry crash investigation makes grim reading - all entirely avoidable.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-33732335

    Begs question why the BBC and other media outlets disgracefully suppressed news of it at the time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Royale, I earlier had great sympathy for the driver. But given his history, that's given way to contempt now. What a bloody fool.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    Edited extra bit: Mr. EPG, my gast is flabbered that you prefer a Conservative government to a Labour one.

    7 May suggested lots of people do!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    No wonder they come - our asylum process seems very generous, and they have the courts on their side:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33729417
  • Plato said:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2132183/Going-viral-The-Finger-Shame--website-devoted-Lib-Dems-point.html

    rcs1000 said:

    Of course its conjecture but if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition. There's been talk of coups but that would cause problems with the unions, a new party joined up with Farron's libs wouldn't be a massive shock to me, I can't think of much they'd disagree on.

    I agree that "if Corbyn wins most senior labour people will be aghast, effectively their political careers are over beyond opposition."

    But, Farron is closer to Corbyn in economic and financial policies. The LD party under Farron is not the centrist party that Clegg presented at the GE.
    I would have thought that a Farron led LibDems will be a party of "We're against that! And that! And the other thing!"
    Yes, which fits well with protests and Corbyn and the Unions.

    oooo look a road that needs repair. Pointypolitics
    That's it. Pointypolitics
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Mr. Financier, one trusts you enjoyed your time there.

    Yes, but there was very little time for anything but study - for my degree I may add. There were four lectures every morning (Including Saturdays) with practicals every afternoon except on sport's afternoon Wednesday which was always a compulsory industrial visit. This was a four year honours course and after the first two years you had to get ordinary degree standard in maths, physics, chemistry, all branches of engineering, ceramics, metallurgy, fuel technology etc and economics - if you failed this hurdle, you were out. Long vacs were compulsory industrial training - the last of which had to be spent outside the UK. To get a 1st required ultimate sacrifice to your studies or to be a genius.
This discussion has been closed.