Worry not. Mr Observer, Corbyn will never be Labour leader.
Even if by some fluke, he became PM, he could always blame the financial collapse on Farmer Jones.
But it won't happen. The forces of self-preservation will win out. But who'd have thought that this leadership election, fast drifting into boring navel-gazing, could become so interesting.
It's clear Labour needs to go through all this, so better now than later. Either it will emerge stronger at some stage, or it will destroy itself and something else will emerge on the centre left to take its place. The shame is that all the while the Tories will be in power, making decisions and implementing policies that I believe are not in the best interests of the UK (indeed, they will probably lead to the break-up of the UK). But what can you do? Things have to run their course.
Southam as a Lib Dem you should be rejoicing as this might be a route back. However, I do not think you will be alive to see PR and a centre left government again in England again.
You would have to move to Scotland .
Yes, it does look like Tim Farron has one thing all generals need - luck. What a fantastic opportunity this all offers the LibDems.
Having seen Corbyn on Marr I just watched Burnham interviewed on Sky, insipid, non comittal and bland.
When is the leader announced please? I'm not an ante post punter but might tie up a few quid on Corbyn, I'm convinced he's the winner.
Corbyn will win on first preferences I have no doubt, I would not rule out Burnham scraping home on preferences. Yougov had Corbyn's lead over Burnham at 16% on first preferences, just 6% on final preferences with 20% undecided.
Burnham said he would renationalise the railways, he would not go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities. He said he would keep the 50% top tax rate for now, but would not go as far as Corbyn in imposing a top tax rate of over 70% on those earning more than a million a year
Burnham didn't go as far as saying he would renationalise the railways, he mumbled about some sort of public ownership when franchises were up for renewal.
Labour members want to hear what Corbyn says.
Indeed, Corbyn does offer a purer form of socialism. As I said Corbyn will win on first preferences, I would not rule out Burnham scraping home in the final round
Little wonder so many senior Labour figures are becoming profoundly alarmed that a significant proportion of their membership is shrinking from any notion of trying to be a party of power and retreating into the politics of the protest march.
I can see the attraction of that. It is a lot easier than confronting the scale of the electoral mountain facing Labour. The 2015 result was Labour’s third worst vote share since 1918. It didn’t have the excuse (as it did in 2010) of having been in government for 13 years and through the most severe economic crisis since the Great Depression. It didn’t have the excuse (as it did in 1983) of standing on a suicidally extreme manifesto and a chunk of its moderate wing having split off to form the SDP.
O/T - I bought Steve Hilton's new book "More Human" yesterday.
A very interesting read, with lots of great ideas. I've only just finished Chapter 2. However, in the acknowledgements, I had a quick look first to see who'd he'd consulted for the book. There were obvious mentions for Rohan Silva, Cameron, Gove, Letwin and Osborne.
However, I was surprised to see one Labour MP - and, as far as I could tell, the only Labour politician - given a hat tip in it. And that was.. Liz Kendall.
She didn't have a very big role, apparently, but there was a conversation with Hilton and she did suggest to him he should be sure to include a section on end-of-life care.
This book was written before the leadership contest. So make of that what you will.
"...go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities ..."
I haven't been following this as closely as perhaps I should, but has Corbyn really said that the utilities should be (re)nationalised? If so did he say how it should be done? Forcing the current owners to sell their assets to HMG or just stealing them would both produce some interesting side-effects. Perhaps he hasn't actually thought his ideas through.
Having seen Corbyn on Marr I just watched Burnham interviewed on Sky, insipid, non comittal and bland. When is the leader announced please? I'm not an ante post punter but might tie up a few quid on Corbyn, I'm convinced he's the winner.
Corbyn will win on first preferences I have no doubt, I would not rule out Burnham scraping home on preferences. Yougov had Corbyn's lead over Burnham at 16% on first preferences, just 6% on final preferences with 20% undecided. Burnham said he would renationalise the railways, he would not go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities. He said he would keep the 50% top tax rate for now, but would not go as far as Corbyn in imposing a top tax rate of over 70% on those earning more than a million a year
Good morning, comrades. Impressive of Labour to find a leader that could be worse than Miliband.
I'm not sure Corbyn would be worse than Miliband. Miliband had everything in place to win, but he continually missed the open goal. Instead he would kick the ball towards random campaigns, without connecting them up in a move forwards. Corbyn might well have a better set of coherent policies that can be wrapped up into simple messages. Even if they are utter lunacy in the view of many people. That's where Miliband failed: he jumped on bandwagons and utterly failed to connect them into a narrative (apart from 'nasty Tories'). Corbyn might well do that much better; we can only hope the Great British Public don't like his message ...
Corbyn's message may be nuts, but he will be able to sell it far better than Miliband could and be far more aggressive in opposing the government with an undiluted socialist platform.
How can he sell his message when he claims that there is no competition in telecoms? Presumably as a prelude to renationalising it? I can only assume you mean he would be better at selling it because he - unlike any of the other candidates - would have the bare faced effrontery to to talk the total bollocks necessary to justify his warped opinions.
This demonization of Corbyn by right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried by him.
In all sincerity I think there is a good measure here.
EdM attracted mostly humour and mockery until the general election when it looked like the government wasn't getting back support as quickly as they'd have liked. Corbyn is actually getting their votes, so I think they look forward to him. Lefties don't and they are behaving in a despairing fashion, even though there is a long time until voting. Farron gets pretty hostile reactions because there is some small potential for a Charles Kennedy type revival there, which is currently the only credible threat to the Conservative majority.
The worst reaction is sincere admiration a la Kendall/DavidM/Lamb, or Clegg on and after 8 May. That means they are shepherds who will happily lead their lambs to the slaughter.
Worry not. Mr Observer, Corbyn will never be Labour leader.
Even if by some fluke, he became PM, he could always blame the financial collapse on Farmer Jones.
But it won't happen. The forces of self-preservation will win out. But who'd have thought that this leadership election, fast drifting into boring navel-gazing, could become so interesting.
It's clear Labour needs to go through all this, so better now than later. Either it will emerge stronger at some stage, or it will destroy itself and something else will emerge on the centre left to take its place. The shame is that all the while the Tories will be in power, making decisions and implementing policies that I believe are not in the best interests of the UK (indeed, they will probably lead to the break-up of the UK). But what can you do? Things have to run their course.
Southam as a Lib Dem you should be rejoicing as this might be a route back. However, I do not think you will be alive to see PR and a centre left government again in England again.
You would have to move to Scotland .
Yes, it does look like Tim Farron has one thing all generals need - luck. What a fantastic opportunity this all offers the LibDems.
Maybe. But Farron is pulling the LDs left. His welfare stance is same as Corbyn.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
Worry not. Mr Observer, Corbyn will never be Labour leader.
Even if by some fluke, he became PM, he could always blame the financial collapse on Farmer Jones.
But it won't happen. The forces of self-preservation will win out. But who'd have thought that this leadership election, fast drifting into boring navel-gazing, could become so interesting.
It's clear Labour needs to go through all this, so better now than later. Either it will emerge stronger at some stage, or it will destroy itself and something else will emerge on the centre left to take its place. The shame is that all the while the Tories will be in power, making decisions and implementing policies that I believe are not in the best interests of the UK (indeed, they will probably lead to the break-up of the UK). But what can you do? Things have to run their course.
Southam as a Lib Dem you should be rejoicing as this might be a route back. However, I do not think you will be alive to see PR and a centre left government again in England again.
You would have to move to Scotland .
Yes, it does look like Tim Farron has one thing all generals need - luck. What a fantastic opportunity this all offers the LibDems.
Maybe. But Farron is pulling the LDs left. His welfare stance is same as Corbyn.
It's a necessary change. When the LDs took Conservative stances, people simply voted for the real thing.
There are 0 votes in the radical centre - even in Islington
Having seen Corbyn on Marr I just watched Burnham interviewed on Sky, insipid, non comittal and bland.
When is the leader announced please? I'm not an ante post punter but might tie up a few quid on Corbyn, I'm convinced he's the winner.
Corbyn will win on first preferences I have no doubt, I would not rule out Burnham scraping home on preferences. Yougov had Corbyn's lead over Burnham at 16% on first preferences, just 6% on final preferences with 20% undecided.
Burnham said he would renationalise the railways, he would not go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities. He said he would keep the 50% top tax rate for now, but would not go as far as Corbyn in imposing a top tax rate of over 70% on those earning more than a million a year
Burnham didn't go as far as saying he would renationalise the railways, he mumbled about some sort of public ownership when franchises were up for renewal.
Labour members want to hear what Corbyn says.
Indeed, Corbyn does offer a purer form of socialism. As I said Corbyn will win on first preferences, I would not rule out Burnham scraping home in the final round
A Corbyn government would make the Brown administration look like a picnic.
This demonization of Corbyn by right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried by him.
In all sincerity I think there is a good measure here.
EdM attracted mostly humour and mockery until the general election when it looked like the government wasn't getting back support as quickly as they'd have liked. Corbyn is actually getting their votes, so I think they look forward to him. Lefties don't and they are behaving in a despairing fashion, even though there is a long time until voting. Farron gets pretty hostile reactions because there is some small potential for a Charles Kennedy type revival there, which is currently the only credible threat to the Conservative majority.
The worst reaction is sincere admiration a la Kendall/DavidM/Lamb, or Clegg on and after 8 May. That means they are shepherds who will happily lead their lambs to the slaughter.
David M polls by far the best of all the potential Labour contendors
A Corbyn victory I think worries some in the Tories because it will give the latter room to fight two unsual enemies: complacency, and itself. There will be an opposition that fails to gain traction in the polls, but every so often comes up with something to stoke the public imagination: Tories will need to hold their nerve. Cameron cannot point to a tight race to encourage parts of his own party to tow the line. The young aspirational members, who might otherwise want to get some relevant experience under their belts, might instead target 2020. It may well be a strange challenge facing the government.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
I think the poll is worthless.
"Would you be more or less likely to support Labour if the following were leader?"
You would expect Tories (who presumably are about 37% of the sample) to say D Miliband as he is nearest to being a Tory. It doesn't mean they would vote for him. Why should they when they can vote Tory?
But the 13% who say they would be less likely to support Labour with D Miliband as leader are likely to be Labour supporters rather than Tory. And they can withhold their vote.
The poll is very difficult to interpret and very easy to misinterpret.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
Problem with that theory is that would be labour party after 3 years of corbyn be a labour party wanting to go back to a blairite?
For that to happen, the idea of what corbyn wants the labour party to be would have to be defeated, and cant see how that happens less a huge eoection defeat.
"...go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities ..."
I haven't been following this as closely as perhaps I should, but has Corbyn really said that the utilities should be (re)nationalised? If so did he say how it should be done? Forcing the current owners to sell their assets to HMG or just stealing them would both produce some interesting side-effects. Perhaps he hasn't actually thought his ideas through.
Well on Marr this morning he was saying Marx had some interesting ideas on taking monopolies into public ownership
'Total utter terror' is how one veteran Labour campaigner sums up the mood in his party.
He warns that defeating Corbyn 'isn't about saving the next Election. It is about the Labour Party's very existence'. Why are Labour in a blind panic? Because the possibility of a Corbyn victory is all too real. 'It is a two-horse race and it is going to be close,' concedes one confidant of the previous frontrunner Burnham.
In fact, it may already be too late to stop Corbyn, according to one of those who has helped run a previously successful Labour leadership campaign. 'There is not much time on the clock to make up a lot of ground on a popular frontrunner,' warns the source, pointing out that the ballot papers go out in just three weeks.
'It is a total mistake to say this will go away because it has to.'
Corbyn's rivals are desperately hoping the darling of the Left won't be able to survive the scrutiny that is coming his way. But even if he falls at the last, the Corbyn phenomenon is doing real damage to the party.
Having seen Corbyn on Marr I just watched Burnham interviewed on Sky, insipid, non comittal and bland. When is the leader announced please? I'm not an ante post punter but might tie up a few quid on Corbyn, I'm convinced he's the winner.
Corbyn will win on first preferences I have no doubt, I would not rule out Burnham scraping home on preferences. Yougov had Corbyn's lead over Burnham at 16% on first preferences, just 6% on final preferences with 20% undecided. Burnham said he would renationalise the railways, he would not go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities. He said he would keep the 50% top tax rate for now, but would not go as far as Corbyn in imposing a top tax rate of over 70% on those earning more than a million a year
Good morning, comrades. Impressive of Labour to find a leader that could be worse than Miliband.
I'm not sure Corbyn would be worse than Miliband. Miliband had everything in place to win, but he continually missed the open goal. Instead he would kick the ball towards random campaigns, without connecting them up in a move forwards. Corbyn might well have a better set of coherent policies that can be wrapped up into simple messages. Even if they are utter lunacy in the view of many people. That's where Miliband failed: he jumped on bandwagons and utterly failed to connect them into a narrative (apart from 'nasty Tories'). Corbyn might well do that much better; we can only hope the Great British Public don't like his message ...
Corbyn's message may be nuts, but he will be able to sell it far better than Miliband could and be far more aggressive in opposing the government with an undiluted socialist platform.
How can he sell his message when he claims that there is no competition in telecoms? Presumably as a prelude to renationalising it? I can only assume you mean he would be better at selling it because he - unlike any of the other candidates - would have the bare faced effrontery to to talk the total bollocks necessary to justify his warped opinions.
Indeed, but the leftwingers he appeals to would lap it up, logical or not!
Worry not. Mr Observer, Corbyn will never be Labour leader.
Even if by some fluke, he became PM, he could always blame the financial collapse on Farmer Jones.
But it won't happen. The forces of self-preservation will win out. But who'd have thought that this leadership election, fast drifting into boring navel-gazing, could become so interesting.
It's clear Labour needs to go through all this, so better now than later. Either it will emerge stronger at some stage, or it will destroy itself and something else will emerge on the centre left to take its place. The shame is that all the while the Tories will be in power, making decisions and implementing policies that I believe are not in the best interests of the UK (indeed, they will probably lead to the break-up of the UK). But what can you do? Things have to run their course.
Southam as a Lib Dem you should be rejoicing as this might be a route back. However, I do not think you will be alive to see PR and a centre left government again in England again.
You would have to move to Scotland .
The Lib Dems are liberal and anti authoritarian rather than left wing or right wing.
If they are to be categorised as left or right then they are right wing on economics, trade and business; and left wing on social issues.
Having seen Corbyn on Marr I just watched Burnham interviewed on Sky, insipid, non comittal and bland. When is the leader announced please? I'm not an ante post punter but might tie up a few quid on Corbyn, I'm convinced he's the winner.
Good morning, comrades. Impressive of Labour to find a leader that could be worse than Miliband.
I'm not sure Corbyn would be worse than Miliband. Miliband had everything in place to win, but he continually missed the open goal. Instead he would kick the ball towards random campaigns, without connecting them up in a move forwards. Corbyn might well have a better set of coherent policies that can be wrapped up into simple messages. Even if they are utter lunacy in the view of many people. That's where Miliband failed: he jumped on bandwagons and utterly failed to connect them into a narrative (apart from 'nasty Tories'). Corbyn might well do that much better; we can only hope the Great British Public don't like his message ...
Corbyn's message may be nuts, but he will be able to sell it far better than Miliband could and be far more aggressive in opposing the government with an undiluted socialist platform.
How can he sell his message when he claims that there is no competition in telecoms? Presumably as a prelude to renationalising it? I can only assume you mean he would be better at selling it because he - unlike any of the other candidates - would have the bare faced effrontery to to talk the total bollocks necessary to justify his warped opinions.
Telecoms is an awful example to pick if you want to hitch your wagon to the renationalisation star.
There is a huge and highly competitive marketplace for data, mobile and domestic communications services , offering a highly diverse mix of packages and products, at very low prices.
The UK is a world leader with telecoms companies precisely because it privatised so early, and led the sale of 3G and 4G licences. Even the poorest, not just here, but worldwide, now have affordable access to mobile phones. Moreover, it gets better all the time and, if you're not happy, you can switch/exchange or buy what you want instead and get it straight away.
Contrast that to the nationalised BT days when you had to wait months for a telephone to be delivered and connected, and even then the line quality was often dreadful and the customer service - worse.
Anyone else here think that in a world with Umunna in the race, Corbyn would not currently be surpassing an uninspiring field?
Stars emerge in opposition. The problem for Labour is Ed Miliband's five wasted years of non-opposition meant there is no obvious choice beyond the non-entities who stood last time. But what has Chuka Umunna actually done? He seems like one of those minor celebrities who is famous for being famous. The deputy leadership race has more depth to it.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
Having seen Corbyn on Marr I just watched Burnham interviewed on Sky, insipid, non comittal and bland.
When is the leader announced please? I'm not an ante post punter but might tie up a few quid on Corbyn, I'm convinced he's the winner.
Corbyn will win on first preferences I have no doubt, I would not rule out Burnham scraping home on preferences. Yougov had Corbyn's lead over Burnham at 16% on first preferences, just 6% on final preferences with 20% undecided.
Burnham said he would renationalise the railways, he would not go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities. He said he would keep the 50% top tax rate for now, but would not go as far as Corbyn in imposing a top tax rate of over 70% on those earning more than a million a year
Burnham didn't go as far as saying he would renationalise the railways, he mumbled about some sort of public ownership when franchises were up for renewal.
Labour members want to hear what Corbyn says.
Indeed, Corbyn does offer a purer form of socialism. As I said Corbyn will win on first preferences, I would not rule out Burnham scraping home in the final round
A Corbyn government would make the Brown administration look like a picnic.
It would make the Attlee government look like John Major's!
A Corbyn victory I think worries some in the Tories because it will give the latter room to fight two unsual enemies: complacency, and itself. There will be an opposition that fails to gain traction in the polls, but every so often comes up with something to stoke the public imagination: Tories will need to hold their nerve. Cameron cannot point to a tight race to encourage parts of his own party to tow the line. The young aspirational members, who might otherwise want to get some relevant experience under their belts, might instead target 2020. It may well be a strange challenge facing the government.
Yes. And the Tories seem perfectly capable of sabotaging core parts of their manifesto programme all by themselves.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
Having seen Corbyn on Marr I just watched Burnham interviewed on Sky, insipid, non comittal and bland. When is the leader announced please? I'm not an ante post punter but might tie up a few quid on Corbyn, I'm convinced he's the winner.
Good morning, comrades. Impressive of Labour to find a leader that could be worse than Miliband.
I'm not sure Corbyn would be worse than Miliband. Miliband had everything in place to win, but he continually missed the open goal. Instead he would kick the ball towards random campaigns, without connecting them up in a move forwards. Corbyn might well have a better set of coherent policies that can be wrapped up into simple messages. Even if they are utter lunacy in the view of many people. That's where Miliband failed: he jumped on bandwagons and utterly failed to connect them into a narrative (apart from 'nasty Tories'). Corbyn might well do that much better; we can only hope the Great British Public don't like his message ...
Corbyn's message may be nuts, but he will be able to sell it far better than Miliband could and be far more aggressive in opposing the government with an undiluted socialist platform.
How can he sell his message when he claims that there is no competition in telecoms? Presumably as a prelude to renationalising it? I can only assume you mean he would be better at selling it because he - unlike any of the other candidates - would have the bare faced effrontery to to talk the total bollocks necessary to justify his warped opinions.
Telecoms is an awful example to pick if you want to hitch your wagon to the renationalisation star.
There is a huge and highly competitive marketplace for data, mobile and domestic communications services , offering a highly diverse mix of packages and products, at very low prices.
The UK is a world leader with telecoms companies precisely because it privatised so early, and led the sale of 3G and 4G licences. Even the poorest, not just here, but worldwide, now have affordable access to mobile phones. Moreover, it gets better all the time and, if you're not happy, you can switch/exchange or buy what you want instead and get it straight away.
Contrast that to the nationalised BT days when you had to wait months for a telephone to be delivered and connected, and even then the line quality was often dreadful and the customer service - worse.
Privatisation had sod all to do with the technological changes that put mobile phones in every schoolchild's pocket around the world.
Worry not. Mr Observer, Corbyn will never be Labour leader.
Even if by some fluke, he became PM, he could always blame the financial collapse on Farmer Jones.
But it won't happen. The forces of self-preservation will win out. But who'd have thought that this leadership election, fast drifting into boring navel-gazing, could become so interesting.
It's clear Labour needs to go through all this, so better now than later. Either it will emerge stronger at some stage, or it will destroy itself and something else will emerge on the centre left to take its place. The shame is that all the while the Tories will be in power, making decisions and implementing policies that I believe are not in the best interests of the UK (indeed, they will probably lead to the break-up of the UK). But what can you do? Things have to run their course.
Southam as a Lib Dem you should be rejoicing as this might be a route back. However, I do not think you will be alive to see PR and a centre left government again in England again.
You would have to move to Scotland .
The Lib Dems are liberal and anti authoritarian rather than left wing or right wing. If they are to be categorised as left or right then they are right wing on economics, trade and business; and left wing on social issues.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
I think the poll is worthless.
"Would you be more or less likely to support Labour if the following were leader?"
You would expect Tories (who presumably are about 37% of the sample) to say D Miliband as he is nearest to being a Tory. It doesn't mean they would vote for him. Why should they when they can vote Tory?
But the 13% who say they would be less likely to support Labour with D Miliband as leader are likely to be Labour supporters rather than Tory. And they can withhold their vote.
The poll is very difficult to interpret and very easy to misinterpret.
Diehard Tories yes, you are forgetting that to get to 36/37% in 2010 and 2015 from 32% in 2005 the Tories have had to win voters who backed Blair then switched to Cameron. This poll suggests David Miliband most appeals to those voters and would be most likely to win them back, hence 19% say they would be more likely to back a D Miliband led party,so it has value on that front. He may lose a few to the Greens and LDs, but overall he would still make a 6% net gain for Labour. The poll also shows, Corbyn and Harman would lose Labour more voters than David M, with Cooper losing the same (but only getting 7% more likely to vote Labour for a 6% net loss)
Little wonder so many senior Labour figures are becoming profoundly alarmed that a significant proportion of their membership is shrinking from any notion of trying to be a party of power and retreating into the politics of the protest march.
I can see the attraction of that. It is a lot easier than confronting the scale of the electoral mountain facing Labour. The 2015 result was Labour’s third worst vote share since 1918. It didn’t have the excuse (as it did in 2010) of having been in government for 13 years and through the most severe economic crisis since the Great Depression. It didn’t have the excuse (as it did in 1983) of standing on a suicidally extreme manifesto and a chunk of its moderate wing having split off to form the SDP.
Telecoms is an awful example to pick if you want to hitch your wagon to the renationalisation star.
There is a huge and highly competitive marketplace for data, mobile and domestic communications services , offering a highly diverse mix of packages and products, at very low prices.
The UK is a world leader with telecoms companies precisely because it privatised so early, and led the sale of 3G and 4G licences. Even the poorest, not just here, but worldwide, now have affordable access to mobile phones. Moreover, it gets better all the time and, if you're not happy, you can switch/exchange or buy what you want instead and get it straight away.
Contrast that to the nationalised BT days when you had to wait months for a telephone to be delivered and connected, and even then the line quality was often dreadful and the customer service - worse.
Privatisation was only a small part of it. It was mainly due to our cooperation with Europe, who settled on standards that allowed large markets to be created, throughout which mobiles would work. It then made it easier to convince other countries to use those same standards.
This was in direct comparison with the US, whose competing standards meant mobiles would often not work in different cities. It stifled the US industry to a large degree.
"...go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities ..."
I haven't been following this as closely as perhaps I should, but has Corbyn really said that the utilities should be (re)nationalised? If so did he say how it should be done? Forcing the current owners to sell their assets to HMG or just stealing them would both produce some interesting side-effects. Perhaps he hasn't actually thought his ideas through.
Well on Marr this morning he was saying Marx had some interesting ideas on taking monopolies into public ownership
So he hasn't actually though his ideas through, or at least he is not admitting to have done so. Given that Marx was writing about 150 years ago about a world very different from the one in which we now live, Corbyn's connection with modern reality seems at best tenuous, to say nothing of the fact that he had admitted that he has not actually studied what Marx said.
Mrs. Free, lady of this parish, said on here the other day that Corbyn doesn't seem to have had a new thought since about 1976. I think she might well be correct, Corbyn seems stuck in the student politics la-la land of forty years ago. That Labour are probably going to elect him as leader is astonishing.
On the bright side it will be vastly amusing if they do. Corbyn stands up at the Party conference and in his first speech as leader announces a vote on the re-introduction of clause 4? The workers must control the means of production!
It's obviously in ST's interest to big up a Labour disaster, but even so what a pickle they have got themselves into. Breath-taking. As many of us on here have pointed out the party opening up the vote to anyone willing to throw in £3 this summer has been a massive own goal. I suppose the SPADs in Ed's bunker thought this was a jolly old idea and would allow ordinary, middle-of-the-road voters to reconnect with the party. Instead it sounds like all the militants who Kinnock and Blair spend a decade squeezing out are back in town joined by left-wing greens (although why green activists want Corbyn as leader is beyond me as he would presumably take their unique policy territory on the left e.g. renationalise the railways).
Well I do agree. Every time a nutter leftie screams 'Murdoch Press' in an SNP-inspired shower of spittle then it ought to be no surprise that they are happy to get their dig in too. However Corbyn would still be languishing as a loopy nobody, where he deserves to be, but for the insistence of the labour MPs who nominated him despite not wanting or believing in him to be leader. You could give labour party voting rights away free with every packet of Cornflakes ... it would not matter so long as the PLP did not nominate a dickhead leftie as a candidate. And to think that 5 years ago these people were actually running the country! The Greens would happily sell themselves as coalition partners to Corbyn's labour. On the other hand I do not see many people voting libdem in seats that would risk surrendering a tory majority to a Corbynite party.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
But would Corbyn be selected by enough MPs?
The rules imply the incumbent is in the race as of right...
Little wonder so many senior Labour figures are becoming profoundly alarmed that a significant proportion of their membership is shrinking from any notion of trying to be a party of power and retreating into the politics of the protest march.
I can see the attraction of that. It is a lot easier than confronting the scale of the electoral mountain facing Labour. The 2015 result was Labour’s third worst vote share since 1918. It didn’t have the excuse (as it did in 2010) of having been in government for 13 years and through the most severe economic crisis since the Great Depression. It didn’t have the excuse (as it did in 1983) of standing on a suicidally extreme manifesto and a chunk of its moderate wing having split off to form the SDP.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
Problem with that theory is that would be labour party after 3 years of corbyn be a labour party wanting to go back to a blairite?
For that to happen, the idea of what corbyn wants the labour party to be would have to be defeated, and cant see how that happens less a huge eoection defeat.
Well if Corbyn builds any sort of poll lead or is competitive then obviously D Miliband would have to wait until 2020 and a Corbyn election defeat to take over (assuming no shock Corbyn win). If Corbyn is doing poorly in local elections and by-elections and in the polls by 2018 then there could be a door opened for an earlier Miliband return
Mrs. Free, lady of this parish, said on here the other day that Corbyn doesn't seem to have had a new thought since about 1976. I think she might well be correct, Corbyn seems stuck in the student politics la-la land of forty years ago. That Labour are probably going to elect him as leader is astonishing.
Have you seen the quality of student politics these days? Far more la-la-leftie than 25 years ago, let alone 40 years ago.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
Corbyn is more liberal than many currently in leadership positions in student politics!
Although not a Labour supporter or voter, it's difficult not to despair at what is going on with Labour at the moment. Whoever becomes Leader will have an impossible job to try and get this rabble back together. I said a few weeks ago that their 'all women shortlists' and parachuting 'Unite' members into safe seats, with have a detrimental effect and the 'Welfare vote' was a good example. I think they will just resort to 'blanket opposition', Harriet Harman didn't want.
The MSM will get bored eventually and turn their guns on the conservatives (all in the interest of 'balance' of course). The conservatives just need to keep their mouths shut and get on with it, they have plenty of battles ahead.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
No is still ahead in rerun indyref polls even after the Tory majority
Yes I've noticed despite all the SNP bluster they still language at least 5 points short of No when it comes to IndyRef. Is that their true high water mark? If so their Westminster impotence is guaranteed.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
Hard to tell - when you only hear from the ones with the loudest mouths. If you look at the Oxford election results, the student body clearly has an influence on results in the areas where they dominate the housing situation.
Being anything other than a hard-Lefty and CND/Greenham Common type was virtually proscribed at my 80s art college in Loony Lefty London.
If you were black or gay - well you could do virtually anything and be feted. Being a vegetarian was also required to demonstrate your virtue or penury under Thatcher's Jackboot.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
From my personal experience, very few these days. There is a very very very small minority of students who are, but the rest are far too busy heads down working hard on their studies (and often a part time job) and also staying out of trouble...these days unless you are very bright getting an internship and a place on a graduate schemes is very competitive and the last thing you want is a massive black mark that says "trouble maker".
The percentage of students voting in NUS / student body elected positions elections is often incredibly small.
Possible electoral salvation appears in the shape of Corbyn as Labour leader, just after they pick the wrong leadership candidate to take advantage of the situation
Little wonder so many senior Labour figures are becoming profoundly alarmed that a significant proportion of their membership is shrinking from any notion of trying to be a party of power and retreating into the politics of the protest march.
I can see the attraction of that. It is a lot easier than confronting the scale of the electoral mountain facing Labour. The 2015 result was Labour’s third worst vote share since 1918. It didn’t have the excuse (as it did in 2010) of having been in government for 13 years and through the most severe economic crisis since the Great Depression. It didn’t have the excuse (as it did in 1983) of standing on a suicidally extreme manifesto and a chunk of its moderate wing having split off to form the SDP.
"...go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities ..."
I haven't been following this as closely as perhaps I should, but has Corbyn really said that the utilities should be (re)nationalised? If so did he say how it should be done? Forcing the current owners to sell their assets to HMG or just stealing them would both produce some interesting side-effects. Perhaps he hasn't actually thought his ideas through.
Well on Marr this morning he was saying Marx had some interesting ideas on taking monopolies into public ownership
So he hasn't actually though his ideas through, or at least he is not admitting to have done so. Given that Marx was writing about 150 years ago about a world very different from the one in which we now live, Corbyn's connection with modern reality seems at best tenuous, to say nothing of the fact that he had admitted that he has not actually studied what Marx said.
Mrs. Free, lady of this parish, said on here the other day that Corbyn doesn't seem to have had a new thought since about 1976. I think she might well be correct, Corbyn seems stuck in the student politics la-la land of forty years ago. That Labour are probably going to elect him as leader is astonishing.
On the bright side it will be vastly amusing if they do. Corbyn stands up at the Party conference and in his first speech as leader announces a vote on the re-introduction of clause 4? The workers must control the means of production!
I would not be too surprised, the look on Mandelson's face would be a picture!
I always saw NUS membership as the pass to a cheap bar. There's an awful lot of virtue signalling and big gobbery in StudentLand that I think exists solely on Facebook and Twitter.
It doesn't require any effort to get offended and rude whilst waiting for the bus.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
From my personal experience, very few these days. There is a very very very small minority of students who are, but the rest are far too busy heads down working hard on their studies (and often a part time job) and also staying out of trouble...these days unless you are very bright getting an internship and a place on a graduate schemes is very competitive and the last thing you want is a massive black mark that says "trouble maker".
The percentage of students voting in NUS / student body elected positions elections is often incredibly small.
I always saw NUS membership as the pass to a cheap bar. There's an awful lot of virtue signalling and big gobbery in StudentLand that I think exists solely on Facebook and Twitter.
It doesn't require any effort to get offended and rude whilst waiting for the bus.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
From my personal experience, very few these days. There is a very very very small minority of students who are, but the rest are far too busy heads down working hard on their studies (and often a part time job) and also staying out of trouble...these days unless you are very bright getting an internship and a place on a graduate schemes is very competitive and the last thing you want is a massive black mark that says "trouble maker".
The percentage of students voting in NUS / student body elected positions elections is often incredibly small.
NUS "membership" isn't really even an option these days. You just have to be a member in order to access most facilities and also student discounts. From recollection, you are auto-enrolled and have to opt out.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
Hard to tell - when you only hear from the ones with the loudest mouths. If you look at the Oxford election results, the student body clearly has an influence on results in the areas where they dominate the housing situation.
Thanks. I think I would put money on the number of "activists" being less than 10% of the student population but the number of staff in agreement with said activists' views being greater than 70%. Maybe Universities are creating rods for their own backs.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
From my personal experience, very few these days. There is a very very very small minority of students who are, but the rest are far too busy heads down working hard on their studies (and often a part time job) and also staying out of trouble...these days unless you are very bright getting an internship and a place on a graduate schemes is very competitive and the last thing you want is a massive black mark that says "trouble maker".
The percentage of students voting in NUS / student body elected positions elections is often incredibly small.
It was gratifying that the largest student vote in Oxford in recent years was the one last term which saw a massive majority vote to retain formal academic dress for exams.
So they aren't all loony. Though the current 'campaign' to remove a statue of Rhodes from Oriel College shows how stupid some Oxford students are.
Well this is funny, indeed hilarious, but we on the Right have to consider the grim possibility that Jeremy Corbyn, Labour leader, could prove rather popular and actually WIN the GE in 2020, leading Britain into
Nah, only joking.
HAHAHAHA
A Corbyn leadership will be catastrophic for Labour, not just because he will probably lose marginals in England to the LDs and Tories (while regaining a few in big cities and Scotland), but because - more importantly - he will split the party in two.
There won't be a new SDP, there will just be a festering great wound in Labour, bleeding and purulent, with Blairites throwing grenades at gleeful Trots, the Unions spitting bile at the Labour right, donors abandoning the party completely (ergo no money) attempts at defenestrations which will fail, on and on and on.
A Corbyn victory will ensure a spectacular slo-mo clusterf*ck, a non-consensual BDSM orgy lasting five long years, ending in Labour polling about 20-25% in 2020.
Go on, Jezza, go on!
If Corbyn falls to 20-25% in the polls I cannot believe even Labour would not oust him
Jeremy Corbyn has just taken second favourite position from Yvette Cooper on Betfair. Yvette Cooper was last traded at 4.20 while Jeremy Corbyn was last traded at 4.10.
No is still ahead in rerun indyref polls even after the Tory majority
Yes I've noticed despite all the SNP bluster they still language at least 5 points short of No when it comes to IndyRef. Is that their true high water mark? If so their Westminster impotence is guaranteed.
Agreed, some will vote SNP to protect Scotland's interests but balk at full independence
Well this is funny, indeed hilarious, but we on the Right have to consider the grim possibility that Jeremy Corbyn, Labour leader, could prove rather popular and actually WIN the GE in 2020, leading Britain into
Nah, only joking.
HAHAHAHA
A Corbyn leadership will be catastrophic for Labour, not just because he will probably lose marginals in England to the LDs and Tories (while regaining a few in big cities and Scotland), but because - more importantly - he will split the party in two.
There won't be a new SDP, there will just be a festering great wound in Labour, bleeding and purulent, with Blairites throwing grenades at gleeful Trots, the Unions spitting bile at the Labour right, donors abandoning the party completely (ergo no money) attempts at defenestrations which will fail, on and on and on.
A Corbyn victory will ensure a spectacular slo-mo clusterf*ck, a non-consensual BDSM orgy lasting five long years, ending in Labour polling about 20-25% in 2020.
Go on, Jezza, go on!
I don't think a Jezza Corbyn led Labour party makes any significant progress in Scotland. I think that train departed some time ago.
Questioned on the BBC's Andrew Marr show, he said: 'Marx obviously analysed what was happening in a quite brilliant way. The philosophy around Marx is absolutely fascinating.
'Does it all apply now? Well obviously philosophy applies at all times. Do we then take that as a way in which we ensure that people have reasonable security in their lives through public ownership of the major monopolies? I think that is a fair point to look at. It is not unpopular with the public.'
Pressed directly on whether he was a 'Marxist', Mr Corbyn said: 'That is a very interesting question actually. I haven't thought about that for a long time. I haven't really read as much of Marx as we should have done. I have read quite a bit but not that much.
'I think Marx's transition of history and the analysis of how you go from feudalism to capitalism and move on to a different stage is fascinating.
'I am not talking about the Labour Party being a revolutionary party. It certainly isn't.
'What we are doing here is putting forward a view that the Labour Party has to offer a credible alternative that is true to the roots of the Labour Party, the roots of the Labour Party are essentially democratic, essentially socialist, essentially community.'
Well this is funny, indeed hilarious, but we on the Right have to consider the grim possibility that Jeremy Corbyn, Labour leader, could prove rather popular and actually WIN the GE in 2020, leading Britain into
Nah, only joking.
HAHAHAHA
A Corbyn leadership will be catastrophic for Labour, not just because he will probably lose marginals in England to the LDs and Tories (while regaining a few in big cities and Scotland), but because - more importantly - he will split the party in two.
There won't be a new SDP, there will just be a festering great wound in Labour, bleeding and purulent, with Blairites throwing grenades at gleeful Trots, the Unions spitting bile at the Labour right, donors abandoning the party completely (ergo no money) attempts at defenestrations which will fail, on and on and on.
A Corbyn victory will ensure a spectacular slo-mo clusterf*ck, a non-consensual BDSM orgy lasting five long years, ending in Labour polling about 20-25% in 2020.
Go on, Jezza, go on!
I don't think a Jezza Corbyn led Labour party makes and significant progress in Scotland. I think that train departed some time ago.
To add: A Corbyn led Labour party would probably provide some upside potential for the tories in Scotland (albeit limited to a very small handful of seats) as Jezza and Nicola would try to out-Syriza each other.
I'm enjoying all the Corbyn Bad bleating down the thread, particularly as many of us PBers helped talk him up as a candidate. Anyway on utilities Corbyn is tapping into the public mood that the likes of rail, electricity and gas should be in public ownership.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
From my personal experience, very few these days. There is a very very very small minority of students who are, but the rest are far too busy heads down working hard on their studies (and often a part time job) and also staying out of trouble...these days unless you are very bright getting an internship and a place on a graduate schemes is very competitive and the last thing you want is a massive black mark that says "trouble maker".
The percentage of students voting in NUS / student body elected positions elections is often incredibly small.
My very limited personal experience corresponds with that. My son is reading engineering and his gripes are about the laziness of his lecturers and he has nothing to say about the NUS, which just does not seem to form any part of his life at all (not even a cheap bar).
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
As I said, you don't understand the rules.
The incumbent is in any future contest (to be decided by the wider membership) as of right...
In other words s/he doesn't have to be re-nominated in the event of a challenge.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
But would David Milliband remain in the Labour party in such circumstances? And the labour party membership might well be down to Corbyn supporters in which case he would win a mid-term ballot hands down.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
From my personal experience, very few these days. There is a very very very small minority of students who are, but the rest are far too busy heads down working hard on their studies (and often a part time job) and also staying out of trouble...these days unless you are very bright getting an internship and a place on a graduate schemes is very competitive and the last thing you want is a massive black mark that says "trouble maker".
The percentage of students voting in NUS / student body elected positions elections is often incredibly small.
My very limited personal experience corresponds with that. My son is reading engineering and his gripes are about the laziness of his lecturers and he has nothing to say about the NUS, which just does not seem to form any part of his life at all (not even a cheap bar).
At many universities with all the anti-binge drinking etc, Student Union bars aren't even that cheap these days. Oxbridge with its college system is a slightly different matter.
Same with uni halls. At many universities, they are actually damn expensive for what you get.
Well this is funny, indeed hilarious, but we on the Right have to consider the grim possibility that Jeremy Corbyn, Labour leader, could prove rather popular and actually WIN the GE in 2020, leading Britain into
Nah, only joking.
HAHAHAHA
A Corbyn leadership will be catastrophic for Labour, not just because he will probably lose marginals in England to the LDs and Tories (while regaining a few in big cities and Scotland), but because - more importantly - he will split the party in two.
There won't be a new SDP, there will just be a festering great wound in Labour, bleeding and purulent, with Blairites throwing grenades at gleeful Trots, the Unions spitting bile at the Labour right, donors abandoning the party completely (ergo no money) attempts at defenestrations which will fail, on and on and on.
A Corbyn victory will ensure a spectacular slo-mo clusterf*ck, a non-consensual BDSM orgy lasting five long years, ending in Labour polling about 20-25% in 2020.
Go on, Jezza, go on!
I don't think a Jezza Corbyn led Labour party makes and significant progress in Scotland. I think that train departed some time ago.
I disagree. I reckon there are plenty of lefty, urban Scots who vote SNP out of despair at Labour, rather than from nationalist fervour. Indeed there are some SNP MPs who are, as they admit themselves, in the SNP because of their lefty beliefs, rather than any overwhelming desire for partition.
I can see anti-Trident, CND-member Corbyn doing pretty well in the Central Belt.
I think for now Labour should give up on Scotland, as the SNP have it fully stitched up and SLAB are still even now showing themselves to be a complete shower. They've been kicking out members who voted for the SNP, continue to blame their downfall on the voters and the traditional SLAB infighting is continuing.
I think it will be many years before SLAB can look to recover any seats in the central belt, particularly in the 3/4 marginals like my seat - Stirling.
Getting 45 MPs to vote against someone they wouldn't have nominated if they'd been paying attention sounds quite easy. Anyone know kind of people the delegates at the conference would be?
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
As I said, you don't understand the rules.
The incumbent is in any future contest (to be decided by the wider membership) as of right...
In other words s/he doesn't have to be re-nominated in the event of a challenge.
Evidence? If David Miliband were to win nominations from 90% of Labour Party MPs then there is no automatic guarantee the leader would go to the membership, as a contest had been called and he had failed to get the 15-20% of nominations required
LOL even under Foot, Labour didn't poll 20% at a GE, and had the SDP to contend with. Now, the LDs are at their lowest point and it's unlikely they'll be some SDP breakaway. *If* we take VI polls seriously (considering we seem to be back to taking polls seriously) Labour despite their civil war disaster are polling at 31%. Corbyn isn't taking Labour to only 20% at a GE.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
But would David Milliband remain in the Labour party in such circumstances? And the labour party membership might well be down to Corbyn supporters in which case he would win a mid-term ballot hands down.
D Miliband is a dead duck. Swanned off to America to make pots of money, yet supposedly the Labour leadership is his for the taking.
Get real.
Besides, I'm sure the party has heard enough of the name Miliband with its fratricidal connotations, and the inevitable future bloopers from colleagues "Our leader Ed... I mean David Miliband said..."
Well this is funny, indeed hilarious, but we on the Right have to consider the grim possibility that Jeremy Corbyn, Labour leader, could prove rather popular and actually WIN the GE in 2020, leading Britain into
Nah, only joking.
HAHAHAHA
A Corbyn leadership will be catastrophic for Labour, not just because he will probably lose marginals in England to the LDs and Tories (while regaining a few in big cities and Scotland), but because - more importantly - he will split the party in two.
There won't be a new SDP, there will just be a festering great wound in Labour, bleeding and purulent, with Blairites throwing grenades at gleeful Trots, the Unions spitting bile at the Labour right, donors abandoning the party completely (ergo no money) attempts at defenestrations which will fail, on and on and on.
A Corbyn victory will ensure a spectacular slo-mo clusterf*ck, a non-consensual BDSM orgy lasting five long years, ending in Labour polling about 20-25% in 2020.
Go on, Jezza, go on!
I don't think a Jezza Corbyn led Labour party makes any significant progress in Scotland. I think that train departed some time ago.
Corbyn had double the support in Scotland he had in the rUK with yougov, he would make progress in the Central Belt and Glasgow if little elsewhere
Getting 45 MPs to vote against someone they wouldn't have nominated if they'd been paying attention sounds quite easy. Anyone know kind of people the delegates at the conference would be?
Yes, the MPs part looks to be pretty easy - the conference part might be more complicated, though. Still there seems to a massive political will to get rid of Corbyn (if he becomes leader).
LOL even under Foot, Labour didn't poll 20% at a GE, and had the SDP to contend with. Now, the LDs are at their lowest point and it's unlikely they'll be some SDP breakaway. *If* we take VI polls seriously (considering we seem to be back to taking polls seriously) Labour despite their civil war disaster are polling at 31%. Corbyn isn't taking Labour to only 20% at a GE.
I never get where this thought that David Miliband would be good anyway. He was pretty damn s##t when given big jobs in government, bottled the big decisions about challenging Brown.
Would he have been better than Ed, probably, not exactly a high bar. Would he make a great leader, there is zero evidence of that.
Well this is funny, indeed hilarious, but we on the Right have to consider the grim possibility that Jeremy Corbyn, Labour leader, could prove rather popular and actually WIN the GE in 2020, leading Britain into
Nah, only joking.
HAHAHAHA
A Corbyn leadership will be catastrophic for Labour, not just because he will probably lose marginals in England to the LDs and Tories (while regaining a few in big cities and Scotland), but because - more importantly - he will split the party in two.
There won't be a new SDP, there will just be a festering great wound in Labour, bleeding and purulent, with Blairites throwing grenades at gleeful Trots, the Unions spitting bile at the Labour right, donors abandoning the party completely (ergo no money) attempts at defenestrations which will fail, on and on and on.
A Corbyn victory will ensure a spectacular slo-mo clusterf*ck, a non-consensual BDSM orgy lasting five long years, ending in Labour polling about 20-25% in 2020.
Go on, Jezza, go on!
If Corbyn falls to 20-25% in the polls I cannot believe even Labour would not oust him
I said he will poll about 20-25% in the actual election, when people are confronted with the reality of his loopiness, and the unhappy split in his party. Before that the polls could fluctuate wildly.
Besides, as Mr Herdson articulately pointed out yesterday, getting rid of a Labour leader is very hard, and even if they manage it, the ensuing leader might be from the left as well, as we see the same clamour for a "proper opposition".
Stockmarket tip: invest in popcorn makers.
I don't think any candidate could be left of Corbyn and there would be no point making the switch unless Labour really were so low in the polls and, say, David Miliband had won a by election and was the alternative. Otherwise, if Corbyn's poll ratings were not too bad, DM or any other contendor would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no shock Corbyn win)
Well this is funny, indeed hilarious, but we on the Right have to consider the grim possibility that Jeremy Corbyn, Labour leader, could prove rather popular and actually WIN the GE in 2020, leading Britain into
Nah, only joking.
HAHAHAHA
A Corbyn leadership will be catastrophic for Labour, not just because he will probably lose marginals in England to the LDs and Tories (while regaining a few in big cities and Scotland), but because - more importantly - he will split the party in two.
There won't be a new SDP, there will just be a festering great wound in Labour, bleeding and purulent, with Blairites throwing grenades at gleeful Trots, the Unions spitting bile at the Labour right, donors abandoning the party completely (ergo no money) attempts at defenestrations which will fail, on and on and on.
A Corbyn victory will ensure a spectacular slo-mo clusterf*ck, a non-consensual BDSM orgy lasting five long years, ending in Labour polling about 20-25% in 2020.
Go on, Jezza, go on!
I don't think a Jezza Corbyn led Labour party makes and significant progress in Scotland. I think that train departed some time ago.
I disagree. I reckon there are plenty of lefty, urban Scots who vote SNP out of despair at Labour, rather than from nationalist fervour. Indeed there are some SNP MPs who are, as they admit themselves, in the SNP because of their lefty beliefs, rather than any overwhelming desire for partition.
I can see anti-Trident, CND-member Corbyn doing pretty well in the Central Belt.
I think for now Labour should give up on Scotland, as the SNP have it fully stitched up and SLAB are still even now showing themselves to be a complete shower. They've been kicking out members who voted for the SNP, continue to blame their downfall on the voters and the traditional SLAB infighting is continuing.
I think it will be many years before SLAB can look to recover any seats in the central belt, particularly in the 3/4 marginals like my seat - Stirling.
The SNP will have most seats for some time to come, that does not mean they will hold all their seats
Being anything other than a hard-Lefty and CND/Greenham Common type was virtually proscribed at my 80s art college in Loony Lefty London.
If you were black or gay - well you could do virtually anything and be feted. Being a vegetarian was also required to demonstrate your virtue or penury under Thatcher's Jackboot.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
But would David Milliband remain in the Labour party in such circumstances? And the labour party membership might well be down to Corbyn supporters in which case he would win a mid-term ballot hands down.
Depends, some who voted for Corbyn would have done so at least on the grounds he would be competitive (don't forget Tory members voted for IDS in 2001, Cameron in 2005). Miliband would only come back mid-term if it was in effect a coronation, otherwise he would wait for a Labour defeat in 2020
I never get where this thought that David Miliband would be good anyway. He was pretty damn s##t when given big jobs in government, bottled the big decisions about challenging Brown.
Would he have been better than Ed, probably, not exactly a high bar. Would he make a great leader, there is zero evidence of that.
He has a net score of +6% in the above poll, far higher than all the other contendors and indeed better than Osborne got with Mori last week
I never get where this thought that David Miliband would be good anyway. He was pretty damn s##t when given big jobs in government, bottled the big decisions about challenging Brown.
Would he have been better than Ed, probably, not exactly a high bar. Would he make a great leader, there is zero evidence of that.
He has a net score of +6% in the above poll, far higher than all the other contendors and indeed better than Osborne got with Mori last week
I don't take any notice of stuff like that, when they aren't even in the game. It is like all the Boris would walk it polls over the past few years, when he isn't actually in a position, where a) he has to make tough and often unpopular decisions and b) has the media magnifying glass on every part of your life.
I never get where this thought that David Miliband would be good anyway. He was pretty damn s##t when given big jobs in government, bottled the big decisions about challenging Brown.
Would he have been better than Ed, probably, not exactly a high bar. Would he make a great leader, there is zero evidence of that.
I agree. I struggle with why people think that he's a great saviour, other than by absence alone. My impression is that he was promoted above his competence levels and if not an empty vessel is no more than half-full. I'd be interested in hearing why I'm wrong.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
snip
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
But would David Milliband remain in the Labour party in such circumstances? And the labour party membership might well be down to Corbyn supporters in which case he would win a mid-term ballot hands down.
Depends, some who voted for Corbyn would have done so at least on the grounds he would be competitive (don't forget Tory members voted for IDS in 2001, Cameron in 2005). Miliband would only come back mid-term if it was in effect a coronation, otherwise he would wait for a Labour defeat in 2020
Sounds to me that many who will have voted Corbyn will be long gone by mid-term. The '£3 for a vote' brigade will all have left having lost interest.
As for students, most aren't interested in politics - although I'd say there are quite a few who are politically aware. I'm not, and never have been a part of the NUS or any political body.
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
Indeed, that may well happen. Corbyn could be deposed mid Parliament a la IDS if he fails to really perform in the polls and David M could win a by-election and be acclaimed by acclamation a la Howard. Unlike Howard he would not have to face Cameron again as he had to face Blair in 2005 so he could have a real chance against Osborne in 2020
You don't understand the Labour rules. A challenger would have to obtain 20% of the PLP to be nominated, then an election conducted among the same electorate (the wider membership) who are apparently poised to elect Corbyn...
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
As I said, you don't understand the rules.
The incumbent is in any future contest (to be decided by the wider membership) as of right...
In other words s/he doesn't have to be re-nominated in the event of a challenge.
Evidence? If David Miliband were to win nominations from 90% of Labour Party MPs then there is no automatic guarantee the leader would go to the membership, as a contest had been called and he had failed to get the 15-20% of nominations required
"Labour Party Rules 2013 2.B. ii. Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the Commons members of the PLP. Nominations not attaining this threshold shall be null and void." (my bold)
No mention of the incumbent requiring to be re-nominated.
Common sense indicates this too. Otherwise, it requires 85% to block Corbyn from getting on the ballot, but only 80% to immediately depose him if elected, which is palpable nonsense.
I never get where this thought that David Miliband would be good anyway. He was pretty damn s##t when given big jobs in government, bottled the big decisions about challenging Brown.
Would he have been better than Ed, probably, not exactly a high bar. Would he make a great leader, there is zero evidence of that.
He has a net score of +6% in the above poll, far higher than all the other contendors and indeed better than Osborne got with Mori last week
I don't take any notice of stuff like that, when they aren't even in the game. It is like all the Boris would walk it polls over the past few years, when he isn't actually in a position, where a) he has to make tough and often unpopular decisions and b) has the media magnifying glass on every part of your life.
Well, for those us who would like an alternative to this government and who are actually quite worried about what they'll do next, Labour's implosion is utterly depressing.
2020: Spoiling the ballot paper....
Corbyn represents the greatest alternative to the government there could possibly be, he may be unelectable, but you cannot say he does not offer an alternative
When I say 'alternative' I mean one which actually has a good chance of being in power, or at least being credible!
Well on that basis today's poll suggests the best leader for Labour would be David Miliband, yawn!
A Corbyn win is potentially a major opening for David M. He can come back in the middle of this parliament, swept in on wave of desperation for someone to save the party from militant left.
snip
If Corbyn takes Labour down to 25-30% or so in the polls then David Miliband would probably win close to 80% of the PLP and would likely win the membership too. Indeed, Miliband could win up to 90% which would mean he would be elected by acclaim as no other candidate, including Corbyn, would have enough nominations to go to the ballot. However, as I said if Corbyn proves competitive then David M would have to wait for a Corbyn defeat in 2020 (assuming no Corbyn shock election win)
But would David Milliband remain in the Labour party in such circumstances? And the labour party membership might well be down to Corbyn supporters in which case he would win a mid-term ballot hands down.
Depends, some who voted for Corbyn would have done so at least on the grounds he would be competitive (don't forget Tory members voted for IDS in 2001, Cameron in 2005). Miliband would only come back mid-term if it was in effect a coronation, otherwise he would wait for a Labour defeat in 2020
Sounds to me that many who will have voted Corbyn will be long gone by mid-term. The '£3 for a vote' brigade will all have left having lost interest.
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
I am clearly too young to remember such things (being only 4 at the time) - but the whole ridiculously overblown notion of 'privilege' and the 'no-platforming' movement seems to have gained huge traction on campuses in the past 5 years.
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
Just out of interest, what percentage of students are engaged in politics these days?
From my personal experience, very few these days. There is a very very very small minority of students who are, but the rest are far too busy heads down working hard on their studies (and often a part time job) and also staying out of trouble...these days unless you are very bright getting an internship and a place on a graduate schemes is very competitive and the last thing you want is a massive black mark that says "trouble maker".
The percentage of students voting in NUS / student body elected positions elections is often incredibly small.
My very limited personal experience corresponds with that. My son is reading engineering and his gripes are about the laziness of his lecturers and he has nothing to say about the NUS, which just does not seem to form any part of his life at all (not even a cheap bar).
At university in the 1960s it was the sociologist students who organised the sit-ins and the NUS protests. They only had seven lectures a week whereas those of us doing engineering were all day in lectures or practicals taking the equivalent of eight 'A' levels which you had to pass or be sent down. (Is it the same today?)
However, it paid off in the long term as many engineering students have been employed as bankers on salaries that sociologists can only dream of.
Comments
Mr. Eagles, one shudders to contemplate the crazed labyrinthine contortions of your historical misunderstandings.
A very interesting read, with lots of great ideas. I've only just finished Chapter 2. However, in the acknowledgements, I had a quick look first to see who'd he'd consulted for the book. There were obvious mentions for Rohan Silva, Cameron, Gove, Letwin and Osborne.
However, I was surprised to see one Labour MP - and, as far as I could tell, the only Labour politician - given a hat tip in it. And that was.. Liz Kendall.
She didn't have a very big role, apparently, but there was a conversation with Hilton and she did suggest to him he should be sure to include a section on end-of-life care.
This book was written before the leadership contest. So make of that what you will.
"...go as far as Corbyn in nationalising other utilities ..."
I haven't been following this as closely as perhaps I should, but has Corbyn really said that the utilities should be (re)nationalised? If so did he say how it should be done? Forcing the current owners to sell their assets to HMG or just stealing them would both produce some interesting side-effects. Perhaps he hasn't actually thought his ideas through.
I can only assume you mean he would be better at selling it because he - unlike any of the other candidates - would have the bare faced effrontery to to talk the total bollocks necessary to justify his warped opinions.
EdM attracted mostly humour and mockery until the general election when it looked like the government wasn't getting back support as quickly as they'd have liked. Corbyn is actually getting their votes, so I think they look forward to him. Lefties don't and they are behaving in a despairing fashion, even though there is a long time until voting. Farron gets pretty hostile reactions because there is some small potential for a Charles Kennedy type revival there, which is currently the only credible threat to the Conservative majority.
The worst reaction is sincere admiration a la Kendall/DavidM/Lamb, or Clegg on and after 8 May. That means they are shepherds who will happily lead their lambs to the slaughter.
There are 0 votes in the radical centre - even in Islington
"Would you be more or less likely to support Labour if the following were leader?"
You would expect Tories (who presumably are about 37% of the sample) to say D Miliband as he is nearest to being a Tory. It doesn't mean they would vote for him. Why should they when they can vote Tory?
But the 13% who say they would be less likely to support Labour with D Miliband as leader are likely to be Labour supporters rather than Tory. And they can withhold their vote.
The poll is very difficult to interpret and very easy to misinterpret.
For that to happen, the idea of what corbyn wants the labour party to be would have to be defeated, and cant see how that happens less a huge eoection defeat.
The Lib Dems are liberal and anti authoritarian rather than left wing or right wing.
If they are to be categorised as left or right then they are right wing on economics, trade and business; and left wing on social issues.
There is a huge and highly competitive marketplace for data, mobile and domestic communications services , offering a highly diverse mix of packages and products, at very low prices.
The UK is a world leader with telecoms companies precisely because it privatised so early, and led the sale of 3G and 4G licences. Even the poorest, not just here, but worldwide, now have affordable access to mobile phones. Moreover, it gets better all the time and, if you're not happy, you can switch/exchange or buy what you want instead and get it straight away.
Contrast that to the nationalised BT days when you had to wait months for a telephone to be delivered and connected, and even then the line quality was often dreadful and the customer service - worse.
Diehard Tories yes, you are forgetting that to get to 36/37% in 2010 and 2015 from 32% in 2005 the Tories have had to win voters who backed Blair then switched to Cameron. This poll suggests David Miliband most appeals to those voters and would be most likely to win them back, hence 19% say they would be more likely to back a D Miliband led party,so it has value on that front. He may lose a few to the Greens and LDs, but overall he would still make a 6% net gain for Labour. The poll also shows, Corbyn and Harman would lose Labour more voters than David M, with Cooper losing the same (but only getting 7% more likely to vote Labour for a 6% net loss)
That is not correct. Labour polled below its 2015 % vote share in 1922 - 1923 - 1931- 1983 and 2010.
This was in direct comparison with the US, whose competing standards meant mobiles would often not work in different cities. It stifled the US industry to a large degree.
Mrs. Free, lady of this parish, said on here the other day that Corbyn doesn't seem to have had a new thought since about 1976. I think she might well be correct, Corbyn seems stuck in the student politics la-la land of forty years ago. That Labour are probably going to elect him as leader is astonishing.
On the bright side it will be vastly amusing if they do. Corbyn stands up at the Party conference and in his first speech as leader announces a vote on the re-introduction of clause 4? The workers must control the means of production!
However Corbyn would still be languishing as a loopy nobody, where he deserves to be, but for the insistence of the labour MPs who nominated him despite not wanting or believing in him to be leader. You could give labour party voting rights away free with every packet of Cornflakes ... it would not matter so long as the PLP did not nominate a dickhead leftie as a candidate. And to think that 5 years ago these people were actually running the country!
The Greens would happily sell themselves as coalition partners to Corbyn's labour.
On the other hand I do not see many people voting libdem in seats that would risk surrendering a tory majority to a Corbynite party.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33667676
Sorry which party did he belong too before being given that role? He wasn't selected for the HoL as a cross bencher....
The minute you try to espouse a position they don't like they accuse you of flaunting your 'privilege' and of being offensive and thus liable to be placed on a no-platform list.
Corbyn is more liberal than many currently in leadership positions in student politics!
The MSM will get bored eventually and turn their guns on the conservatives (all in the interest of 'balance' of course). The conservatives just need to keep their mouths shut and get on with it, they have plenty of battles ahead.
But that sounds a lot like 40 years ago
Quite scary how conformist and illiberal so many current students are.
@hyufd
No is still ahead in rerun indyref polls even after the Tory majority
Yes I've noticed despite all the SNP bluster they still language at least 5 points short of No when it comes to IndyRef. Is that their true high water mark? If so their Westminster impotence is guaranteed.
If you were black or gay - well you could do virtually anything and be feted. Being a vegetarian was also required to demonstrate your virtue or penury under Thatcher's Jackboot.
I kept my mouth firmly shut.
The percentage of students voting in NUS / student body elected positions elections is often incredibly small.
Possible electoral salvation appears in the shape of Corbyn as Labour leader, just after they pick the wrong leadership candidate to take advantage of the situation
Rawnsley is an historian in terms of his academic roots. Pity he lacks the professionalism to check his facts!
It doesn't require any effort to get offended and rude whilst waiting for the bus.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33668196
So they aren't all loony. Though the current 'campaign' to remove a statue of Rhodes from Oriel College shows how stupid some Oxford students are.
Yes I've noticed despite all the SNP bluster they still language at least 5 points short of No when it comes to IndyRef. Is that their true high water mark? If so their Westminster impotence is guaranteed.
Agreed, some will vote SNP to protect Scotland's interests but balk at full independence
http://www.libdemvoice.org/libdemfightback-what-do-the-polls-say-46919.html#utm_source=tweet&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter
I'm enjoying all the Corbyn Bad bleating down the thread, particularly as many of us PBers helped talk him up as a candidate. Anyway on utilities Corbyn is tapping into the public mood that the likes of rail, electricity and gas should be in public ownership.
It's perfectly possible to talk warmly about the unadulterated benefits of mass immigration from a privileged perspective without censure.
The incumbent is in any future contest (to be decided by the wider membership) as of right...
In other words s/he doesn't have to be re-nominated in the event of a challenge.
Same with uni halls. At many universities, they are actually damn expensive for what you get.
I think it will be many years before SLAB can look to recover any seats in the central belt, particularly in the 3/4 marginals like my seat - Stirling.
Getting 45 MPs to vote against someone they wouldn't have nominated if they'd been paying attention sounds quite easy. Anyone know kind of people the delegates at the conference would be?
Get real.
Besides, I'm sure the party has heard enough of the name Miliband with its fratricidal connotations, and the inevitable future bloopers from colleagues "Our leader Ed... I mean David Miliband said..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf3NxCCSz3Y
Would he have been better than Ed, probably, not exactly a high bar. Would he make a great leader, there is zero evidence of that.
At university in the 1960s it was the sociologist students who organised the sit-ins and the NUS protests. They only had seven lectures a week whereas those of us doing engineering were all day in lectures or practicals taking the equivalent of eight 'A' levels which you had to pass or be sent down. (Is it the same today?)
However, it paid off in the long term as many engineering students have been employed as bankers on salaries that sociologists can only dream of.