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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Antifrank: Hanging tough – the Conservative intake of 2015

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited July 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Antifrank: Hanging tough – the Conservative intake of 2015

Despite relatively few seats changing hands in May, more than a fifth of Conservative MPs – 74 in total – were not in the last Parliament.  They will have a big influence on the dynamics of the Conservative party in government.  What do they look like?  Well, here they are:

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited July 2015
    First! :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045
    Second!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045
    Yet another brilliant article from @antifrank, along with the previous article on the new Labour MPs obviously the product of a serious amount of research. Duly bookmarked to return to a couple of years down the line when we see the first ministerial reshuffle.
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    Very interesting- thanks..

    I have missed prior episodes.. is there a similar one on new Labour MPs?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2015
    O/T:

    I think England are doing well considering they were 30/4. If they can knock Australia over for 120 they might have an outside chance.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    I suspect the Conservative party is moving ever more eurosceptic. There have basically been four groups:

    1. Out regardless
    2. Out, but can be persuaded by a great renegotiation
    3. In, assuming we get a reasonable renegotiation
    4. In regardless

    Given the actions of the Eurozone over the last week, I think a lot of conservatives have moved up a group. People that were leaning out have made up their minds, and people that were leaning in are now leaning out. I imagine the split has moved from something like 20/30/40/10 to 40/30/20/10. If Cameron can not get a good negotiation together, he may need to recommend out to keep the party together.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Fascinating findings. Much appreciated.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Many thanks to Antifrank.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Another solid selection by the Tories. Alan Mak has a rather interesting CV.

    http://www.rollonfriday.com/TheNews/EuropeNews/tabid/58/Id/3934/fromTab/58/currentIndex/84/Default.aspx
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Very interesting- thanks..

    I have missed prior episodes.. is there a similar one on new Labour MPs?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/07/10/pleased-to-meet-you-the-labour-intake-of-2015/
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    When do we get the extended edition for the Liberal Democrat intake?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pauly said:

    When do we get the extended edition for the Liberal Democrat intake?

    Have just realised that off the top of my head I can name half the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Is that some kind of record ;)
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Sandpit said:

    Yet another brilliant article from @antifrank, along with the previous article on the new Labour MPs obviously the product of a serious amount of research.

    Hear! Hear! Well done, Antifrank!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Hmm. Clegg, Farron, Carmichael (after all @calum mentions!) and Lamb.

    Then I go blank.
    Charles said:

    Pauly said:

    When do we get the extended edition for the Liberal Democrat intake?

    Have just realised that off the top of my head I can name half the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Is that some kind of record ;)
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Charles said:

    Pauly said:

    When do we get the extended edition for the Liberal Democrat intake?

    Have just realised that off the top of my head I can name half the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Is that some kind of record ;)
    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Plato said:

    Hmm. Clegg, Farron, Carmichael (after all @calum mentions!) and Lamb.

    Then I go blank.

    Charles said:

    Pauly said:

    When do we get the extended edition for the Liberal Democrat intake?

    Have just realised that off the top of my head I can name half the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Is that some kind of record ;)
    That's my 50% as well.

    I wonder how the other half live?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Charles said:

    Have just realised that off the top of my head I can name half the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Is that some kind of record ;)

    @JournoStephen: "The names of all the [Lib Dem] MPs can now fit in a single tweet, with 30 characters to spare." Ouch. http://t.co/zgguBMmEEV
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    Maybe, although most people,including me, also thought that obviously there would be a lot more of them on the list right now, so nothing is certain.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Afternoon all :)

    Well, an interesting summary though as Antifrank points out, the key elements going forward might be a) where they stand on Europe and b) who they might support once David Cameron decides to call it a day.

    It remains to be seen how they will respond when (because it's a when, not an if) things don't go so well for the Government or the Party. Mid-term (and there will be one) will be a test for them all especially if local results go badly against the party.

  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    Stodge. Have no fear. I was just being mischievous. I have a lot of time and respect for the LibDems, and before that the Liberal party. They did a great job in accepting coalition with the Tories for the good of the country, and were unfairly punished.
    :blush: Sorry for any offence - I was just fooling around (This forum can get a bit intense sometimes).
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Maybe most of us aren't humour donors.
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    Maybe, although most people,including me, also thought that obviously there would be a lot more of them on the list right now, so nothing is certain.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    Thanks for the overview Antifrank. I hope you are right about the lack of 'biddability'. It should be the job of every MP to hold the Government to account, not just the Opposition MPs.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    I don't think there's anything obvious at all about it. While the Labour candidates aren't anything special, all of them but Corbyn will be better than Ed Miliband. Left-leaning voters I know have been pretty turned off by Tim Farron's stance on gay relationships. The historic incumbency effect the Libreal Democrats used to rely on will no longer work in their favour. The anti-establishment vote will likely dislike the Liberal Democrats on the EU issue, which will come to the fore over the next few years. And the number of constituencies is going to be moved from 650 to 600, squeezing minority parties further.

    Perhaps Farron will outperform expectations. Perhaps Labour will elect Corbyn. Perhaps the Conservatives will tear themselves apart. But there's nothing obvious about a Liberal Democrat recovery.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    We could do some sort of Respect Swap where you care on my behalf.

    I read this, scrolled up five posts, tried again and still only got Plato's four again.
    It'd take a lot of effort and dedication to give a toss about who they once were.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    JEO said:

    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    I don't think there's anything obvious at all about it. While the Labour candidates aren't anything special, all of them but Corbyn will be better than Ed Miliband. Left-leaning voters I know have been pretty turned off by Tim Farron's stance on gay relationships. The historic incumbency effect the Libreal Democrats used to rely on will no longer work in their favour. The anti-establishment vote will likely dislike the Liberal Democrats on the EU issue, which will come to the fore over the next few years. And the number of constituencies is going to be moved from 650 to 600, squeezing minority parties further.

    Perhaps Farron will outperform expectations. Perhaps Labour will elect Corbyn. Perhaps the Conservatives will tear themselves apart. But there's nothing obvious about a Liberal Democrat recovery.
    It is far from certain that the reduction in constituencies to 600 will actually get through!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,516
    GeoffM said:

    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    We could do some sort of Respect Swap where you care on my behalf.

    I read this, scrolled up five posts, tried again and still only got Plato's four again.
    It'd take a lot of effort and dedication to give a toss about who they once were.
    Exactly a bunch of unprincipled no marks who will sellout at first chance of personal gain.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    JEO said:

    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    I don't think there's anything obvious at all about it. While the Labour candidates aren't anything special, all of them but Corbyn will be better than Ed Miliband. Left-leaning voters I know have been pretty turned off by Tim Farron's stance on gay relationships. The historic incumbency effect the Libreal Democrats used to rely on will no longer work in their favour. The anti-establishment vote will likely dislike the Liberal Democrats on the EU issue, which will come to the fore over the next few years. And the number of constituencies is going to be moved from 650 to 600, squeezing minority parties further.

    Perhaps Farron will outperform expectations. Perhaps Labour will elect Corbyn. Perhaps the Conservatives will tear themselves apart. But there's nothing obvious about a Liberal Democrat recovery.
    Indeed - Farron is their first mistake. The other big problem relates to gender balance - their all-male intake is not entirely down to electoral misfortune. The party image is very poor in this respect and the more so as they don't seem to be very exercised about it. Additionally with Farron they're fighting alternatives like the Greens without a very distinctive message. Of course they could win back big against the Conservatives but equally the rump could be cleared up next time. They handled the consequence of coalition very badly by trying to support and oppose at the same time - not the kind of message that interests voters.
  • Pauly said:

    When do we get the extended edition for the Liberal Democrat intake?

    When their minibus arrives?
    Disraeli....Pugh Pugh Barney McGrew etc.... smile.
    Stodge.... Go on chuckle.
  • Antifrank, did your Labour analysis conclude that there was a major increase in the left wing of that party?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    "more Labradors than is healthy for any normal man to look at."

    Arf - I like the sound of them already.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    A Boris lookalike friend of mine had two called Monty and Rommel

    "more Labradors than is healthy for any normal man to look at."

    Arf - I like the sound of them already.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    Respect has to be earned.

    Clegg and Lamb have definitely earned it. Farron's decision not to contribute to the Coalition is a big negative. The others have made no impression on me one way or the other - which suggests they aren't worth of particular respect.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Stodge told us on another thread that he ignores posts about Punic wars and anyone who uses cripes in a comment.

    I don’t know how I'll cope.

    Golly.
    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    Respect has to be earned.

    Clegg and Lamb have definitely earned it. Farron's decision not to contribute to the Coalition is a big negative. The others have made no impression on me one way or the other - which suggests they aren't worth of particular respect.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    Why would it be longer after 2020? There are no guarantees in life or politics, it could even be a shorter list.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited July 2015
    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Glad people enjoyed the piece. I thought the most interesting thing that I found was that the MPs' individual local commitments collectively form a set of policies that I don't think was particularly thought-through centrally. The Conservatives need to decide whether localism is an election tactic or a new way of governing.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Antifrank, did your Labour analysis conclude that there was a major increase in the left wing of that party?

    The new intake is not particularly New Labour and has quite a few MPs who are definitely on the left of the party. But Labour MPs often drift rightwards with age so I wouldn't read too much into that.
  • stodge said:It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    Why? There will probably be at least 3 standing down, Pugh, Lamb and Clegg.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,509
    Plato said:

    Stodge told us on another thread that he ignores posts about Punic wars and anyone who uses cripes in a comment.

    I don’t know how I'll cope.

    Golly.

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Disraeli said:


    Hmmm, the parliamentary LibDems. Is it Clegg, Farron, Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grub?

    Why not treat them with a modicum of respect - it wouldn't do you any harm - and name them correctly as follows:

    Tim Farron
    Norman Lamb
    Tom Brake
    Greg Mulholland
    Alastair Carmichael
    Nick Clegg
    John Pugh
    Mark Williams

    There, not too difficult. It will obviously be a much longer list after 2020.

    Respect has to be earned.

    Clegg and Lamb have definitely earned it. Farron's decision not to contribute to the Coalition is a big negative. The others have made no impression on me one way or the other - which suggests they aren't worth of particular respect.
    Cripes! I'd better avoid any mention of Carthage, Rome or Hannibal then.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,509
    Plato said:
    Ssssh. Don't show that to Southam Observer!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Crivvens.

    We need a murder suspect or something to balance things up.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited July 2015
    The Observer - Labour’s lost voters may never return again, study finds

    "Labour may never win back its former supporters who jumped ship to the Conservatives on 7 May and robbed it of any chance of victory, according to the most detailed investigation into why people deserted the party at the election.

    This is one of many devastating conclusions reached by two former Labour election directors who have conducted a series of focus-group interviews with previously firm Labour backers, all of whom voted Labour in 2010 but switched to the Tories this year.

    In a report summarising their findings from five key marginal seats, Alan Barnard and John Braggins say disillusion with Labour among such voters is now so profound and deep-seated that it is unclear whether Labour will even be a relevant force at the next election."
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It's okay. He's saving up to pay the BBC £400 for his TVLF.

    Plato said:
    Ssssh. Don't show that to Southam Observer!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    But on past LibDem form, there must be at least one with a really, reaally sordid sex secret....?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    It's just ewe and me.

    She's called Andrex

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    But on past LibDem form, there must be at least one with a really, reaally sordid sex secret....?
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    edited July 2015
    Antifrank's done another piece of great detective work here, I think the parties should be required to produce this sort of summary at the start of each new parliament.

    Catching up on the earlier thread re the BBC, putting the BBC to one side, I think what's becoming very clear is that us SKY users all seem to be shelling out £50 - £100 a month. I can almost hear the phone call in 10 years time - "Were you a SKY subscriber in 2000 to 2025 ?"
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    Plato said:

    Crivvens.

    We need a murder suspect or something to balance things up.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    Wow - worse than I thought.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    fitalass said:

    The Observer - Labour’s lost voters may never return again, study finds

    "Labour may never win back its former supporters who jumped ship to the Conservatives on 7 May and robbed it of any chance of victory, according to the most detailed investigation into why people deserted the party at the election.

    This is one of many devastating conclusions reached by two former Labour election directors who have conducted a series of focus-group interviews with previously firm Labour backers, all of whom voted Labour in 2010 but switched to the Tories this year.

    In a report summarising their findings from five key marginal seats, Alan Barnard and John Braggins say disillusion with Labour among such voters is now so profound and deep-seated that it is unclear whether Labour will even be a relevant force at the next election."

    Oh dear - how will the Ciffers cope? Roll on the Corbyn bandwagon - theyr'e gonna have to hunker down. :)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What do you get for £50? I subbed to Sky in 2000 and didn't renew it.
    Antifrank's done another piece of great detective work here, I think the parties should be required to produce this sort of summary at the start of each new parliament.

    Catching up on the earlier thread re the BBC, putting the BBC to one side, I think what's becoming very clear is that us SKY users all seem to be shelling out £50 - £100 a month. I can almost hear the phone call in 10 years time - "Were you a SKY subscriber in 2000 to 2025 ?"
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I find their nostalgia rather endearing. It will never win an election.
    felix said:

    fitalass said:

    The Observer - Labour’s lost voters may never return again, study finds

    "Labour may never win back its former supporters who jumped ship to the Conservatives on 7 May and robbed it of any chance of victory, according to the most detailed investigation into why people deserted the party at the election.

    This is one of many devastating conclusions reached by two former Labour election directors who have conducted a series of focus-group interviews with previously firm Labour backers, all of whom voted Labour in 2010 but switched to the Tories this year.

    In a report summarising their findings from five key marginal seats, Alan Barnard and John Braggins say disillusion with Labour among such voters is now so profound and deep-seated that it is unclear whether Labour will even be a relevant force at the next election."

    Oh dear - how will the Ciffers cope? Roll on the Corbyn bandwagon - theyr'e gonna have to hunker down. :)
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Plato said:

    What do you get for £50? I subbed to Sky in 2000 and didn't renew it.

    Antifrank's done another piece of great detective work here, I think the parties should be required to produce this sort of summary at the start of each new parliament.

    Catching up on the earlier thread re the BBC, putting the BBC to one side, I think what's becoming very clear is that us SKY users all seem to be shelling out £50 - £100 a month. I can almost hear the phone call in 10 years time - "Were you a SKY subscriber in 2000 to 2025 ?"


    I came across a person the other day, £100 a month he spends. It's a lot, but he loves his sport, and to him its his entertainment. Of course he also gets his telephone and broadband for that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    An excellent thread header, but antifrank seems to have one glaring omission about the new Tory intake:

    Just how evil are they?

    On a 1-10 scale, surely there can't be any less than an 8, can there?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2015
    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 39 secs40 seconds ago

    Exclusive: Margaret Beckett backing Andy Burnham despite nominating Jeremy Corbyn.


    Ma Beckett sings: Non, je ne regrette rien. Scary picture removed from link out of respect. :lol:

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    Blimey. I just can't imagine that. But a friend has terrible MS and he'd watch sports 24hrs if he could. They must spend a similar sum.
    notme said:

    Plato said:

    What do you get for £50? I subbed to Sky in 2000 and didn't renew it.

    Antifrank's done another piece of great detective work here, I think the parties should be required to produce this sort of summary at the start of each new parliament.

    Catching up on the earlier thread re the BBC, putting the BBC to one side, I think what's becoming very clear is that us SKY users all seem to be shelling out £50 - £100 a month. I can almost hear the phone call in 10 years time - "Were you a SKY subscriber in 2000 to 2025 ?"
    I came across a person the other day, £100 a month he spends. It's a lot, but he loves his sport, and to him its his entertainment. Of course he also gets his telephone and broadband for that.

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    An excellent thread header, but antifrank seems to have one glaring omission about the new Tory intake:

    Just how evil are they?

    On a 1-10 scale, surely there can't be any less than an 8, can there?

    I suggest a Baby Eating Speed Competition to rank them effectively. Maybe one for volume as well.

    Both are different skills, after all.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 39 secs40 seconds ago

    Exclusive: Margaret Beckett backing Andy Burnham despite nominating Jeremy Corbyn.


    Ma Beckett sings: Non, je ne regrette rien. Scary picture removed from link out of respect. :lol:

    Good old Ma.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    That's a very important distinction. Well spotted.

    I like mine with a side salad. And Caesar dressing.
    GeoffM said:

    An excellent thread header, but antifrank seems to have one glaring omission about the new Tory intake:

    Just how evil are they?

    On a 1-10 scale, surely there can't be any less than an 8, can there?

    I suggest a Baby Eating Speed Competition to rank them effectively. Maybe one for volume as well.

    Both are different skills, after all.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Plato said:

    Crivvens.

    We need a murder suspect or something to balance things up.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    I'm sure these guys can cover all the necessary bases for the LibDems normal skeletons in the closet:

    http://www.libdems.org.uk/peers

    Some gobsmacking names on the list - soon to be joined by Lord Handy of C**k, Lord Alexander etc - I'd keep an eye on Lord H if I were a LibDem whip (person not object !!).
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    There's a Lord Alliance!
    calum said:

    Plato said:

    Crivvens.

    We need a murder suspect or something to balance things up.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    I'm sure these guys can cover all the necessary bases for the LibDems normal skeletons in the closet:

    http://www.libdems.org.uk/peers

    Some gobsmacking names on the list - soon to be joined by Lord Handy of C**k, Lord Alexander etc - I'd keep an eye on Lord H if I were a LibDem whip (person not object !!).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Going to kill my Sky TV package when the Ashes ends/footy starts up.

    The new fibre is nice, 30 megabits/sec or so.

    I pay £60/mth for TV & broadband right now.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I worked out that I ate about 100 gig on Netflix etc in a single month.
    Pulpstar said:

    Going to kill my Sky TV package when the Ashes ends/footy starts up.

    The new fibre is nice, 30 megabits/sec or so.

    I pay £60/mth for TV & broadband right now.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    On topic. Thought @antifrank point about the charitable work of Tories being voluntary and not a job was interesting.

    Cue bun fighting.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Plato said:

    On topic. Thought @antifrank point about the charitable work of Tories being voluntary and not a job was interesting.

    Cue bun fighting.

    There are few people more self righteous than those who *work* for a charity. Far more than the volunteers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,045
    Plato said:

    On topic. Thought @antifrank point about the charitable work of Tories being voluntary and not a job was interesting.

    Cue bun fighting.

    Agreed, that was a rather interesting comment, which emphasises a difference in thinking between the two parties.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    I do wish Lefties would take the mickey out of themselves as much as Tories do.

    It's very healthy to mock your own side.
    notme said:

    Plato said:

    On topic. Thought @antifrank point about the charitable work of Tories being voluntary and not a job was interesting.

    Cue bun fighting.

    There are few people more self righteous than those who *work* for a charity. Far more than the volunteers.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    Great work antifrank.

    The difference between the Tories and Labour is stark. IIRC the Labour list was completely dominated by the public/third sectors once the SPADs etc were removed. Both parties have them of course but the difference with the Tories is remarkable.

    It seems inevitable that 2 visions of the UK will persist. One small state, enterprise driven and individualistic. One large state, socially focussed and communitarian. By their past employment you will know them.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    Out of curiosity, how many MPs from Tories vs Labour have armed services experience?

    Not just newly minted, but in total?

    The previous occupation of each MP as a thread subject would make great food for thought.
    DavidL said:

    Great work antifrank.

    The difference between the Tories and Labour is stark. IIRC the Labour list was completely dominated by the public/third sectors once the SPADs etc were removed. Both parties have them of course but the difference with the Tories is remarkable.

    It seems inevitable that 2 visions of the UK will persist. One small state, enterprise driven and individualistic. One large state, socially focussed and communitarian. By their past employment you will know them.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    calum said:

    Plato said:

    Crivvens.

    We need a murder suspect or something to balance things up.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    I'm sure these guys can cover all the necessary bases for the LibDems normal skeletons in the closet:

    http://www.libdems.org.uk/peers

    Some gobsmacking names on the list - soon to be joined by Lord Handy of C**k, Lord Alexander etc - I'd keep an eye on Lord H if I were a LibDem whip (person not object !!).
    To be fair to Danny Alexander, something I'm not usually in the habit of doing, he's ruled out going to the HoL.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Antifrank - thank you again.

    Looking at the new Cons, it would seem about half of them won against sitting opposition rather than replacing a former Con. Also notice that they are mainly in their 30s and 40s with a few in their 20s and 50s and one in his 60s. Most of the ladies seem to enter politics after they have raised or are raising an established family. In general they appear to be quite a formidable bunch with diverse skill sets and experiences.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    Plato said:

    Out of curiosity, how many MPs from Tories vs Labour have armed services experience?

    Not just newly minted, but in total?

    The previous occupation of each MP as a thread subject would make great food for thought.

    DavidL said:

    Great work antifrank.

    The difference between the Tories and Labour is stark. IIRC the Labour list was completely dominated by the public/third sectors once the SPADs etc were removed. Both parties have them of course but the difference with the Tories is remarkable.

    It seems inevitable that 2 visions of the UK will persist. One small state, enterprise driven and individualistic. One large state, socially focussed and communitarian. By their past employment you will know them.

    Hmm...no idea. I can only think of 1 Labour ex military of the top of my head, Dan Jarvis, but there must surely be more.

    4 struck me as a surprisingly large number of newbies given the relatively tiny size of our armed forces these days. I suspect it is one public service to another that drives it.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Some of those 36 MPs must be having sleepless nights
    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,157
    Congratulations to the LibDems on electing someone even more Sixth-Formery than Ed Miliband :lol:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    Financier said:

    Antifrank - thank you again.

    Looking at the new Cons, it would seem about half of them won against sitting opposition rather than replacing a former Con. Also notice that they are mainly in their 30s and 40s with a few in their 20s and 50s and one in his 60s. Most of the ladies seem to enter politics after they have raised or are raising an established family. In general they appear to be quite a formidable bunch with diverse skill sets and experiences.

    Can't help feeling quite a number of these individualistic and aspirational people are going to be bored out of their minds by 2020.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    WTF?
    “Suffice to say that the brand of Labour has been damaged massively by these voters’ inability to perceive him as a capable and competent prime minister.
    If only prospective Labour voters were more intelligent, they'd understand. False Consciousness. Again.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Apols for this triple post - Vanilla was giving me red messages
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    We need one back!
    Financier said:

    Apols for this triple post - Vanilla was giving me red messages

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    With only 8 MPs, I don't think you can expect there to be much diversity.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    Know you're interested in female vs male prison population. Been watching some great US docs but no idea on relative pops compared to UK.

    Do you have any figures?
    AndyJS said:

    With only 8 MPs, I don't think you can expect there to be much diversity.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    Out of curiosity, how many MPs from Tories vs Labour have armed services experience?

    Not just newly minted, but in total?

    The previous occupation of each MP as a thread subject would make great food for thought.

    DavidL said:

    Great work antifrank.

    The difference between the Tories and Labour is stark. IIRC the Labour list was completely dominated by the public/third sectors once the SPADs etc were removed. Both parties have them of course but the difference with the Tories is remarkable.

    It seems inevitable that 2 visions of the UK will persist. One small state, enterprise driven and individualistic. One large state, socially focussed and communitarian. By their past employment you will know them.

    Hmm...no idea. I can only think of 1 Labour ex military of the top of my head, Dan Jarvis, but there must surely be more.

    4 struck me as a surprisingly large number of newbies given the relatively tiny size of our armed forces these days. I suspect it is one public service to another that drives it.
    Tried to edit this without success. Apparently there are more than 50 MPs with military experience and 30+ are in this photo. Not sure of all the party allegiances but seem to be mainly tory with a sprinkling from NI.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Military-MPs.jpg
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243
    felix said:

    fitalass said:

    The Observer - Labour’s lost voters may never return again, study finds

    "Labour may never win back its former supporters who jumped ship to the Conservatives on 7 May and robbed it of any chance of victory, according to the most detailed investigation into why people deserted the party at the election.

    This is one of many devastating conclusions reached by two former Labour election directors who have conducted a series of focus-group interviews with previously firm Labour backers, all of whom voted Labour in 2010 but switched to the Tories this year.

    In a report summarising their findings from five key marginal seats, Alan Barnard and John Braggins say disillusion with Labour among such voters is now so profound and deep-seated that it is unclear whether Labour will even be a relevant force at the next election."

    Oh dear - how will the Ciffers cope? Roll on the Corbyn bandwagon - theyr'e gonna have to hunker down. :)
    The report may be true. I hope it is. However will this be reflected in people 'the cohort' who come onto the frame by 2020? Will they have the naivety of youth, and how would Labour bribe them?
    It may be that we over analyse these things - we probably do. People will sadly die as well. The other point of course is that people move through the 7 ages of life and voting patterns constantly change. I do wonder on the subject of 'bribes' - which all politicians are susceptible to offer and of course which all voters are prone to accept - I do wonder if once the child benefit is limited to 2, well is there scope for it to be raised with a little generosity?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited July 2015
    AndyJS said:

    With only 8 MPs, I don't think you can expect there to be much diversity.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    Why don't you expect "much diversity"? If the candidates reflected the country then statistically you would expect much more than this.

    In fact statistically you'd have had to go to some considerable effort to achieve this level of underachievement.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    GE2010 How many LD MPs filled the absent categories, that'd be instructive.
    GeoffM said:

    AndyJS said:

    With only 8 MPs, I don't think you can expect there to be much diversity.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    Why don't you expect "much diversity"? If the candidates reflected the country then statistically you would expect much more than this.

    In fact statistically you'd have had to go to some considerable effort to achieve this level of underachievement.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ohhh
    One MP who helped Mr Corbyn onto the ballot said Labour grandees who have kept their “powder dry” in the Labour leadership race so far must now act to stop him winning... A third MP who backed Mr Corbyn said they were “deeply disappointed” with the state of the leadership race which had failed to debate the deficit, citing him as a distracting influence.

    The fact even among the 36 Labour MPs who nominated Mr Corbyn there is anger at his impact and plotting to block his path to victor reveals the depth of concern in the party.

    It comes after those MPs that lent their support for Mr Corbyn were openly attacked by colleagues at the time. John Mann, a Labour MP, tweeted that the late surge for Mr Corbyn demonstrated the party’s “desire never to win again” while Tom Harris, a former Scottish Labour MP, wrote simply: “Dear David Cameron, you’re welcome. Lots of love, the Labour Party.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11742529/Jeremy-Corbyn-backers-abandon-ship-and-call-Labour-grandees-to-intervene.html
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    Most entertaining leg-pulling.
    OchEye said:

    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    OchEye said:

    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
    2 million jobs would say otherwise. GO never really practiced austerity. Spending £80 billion more than you take in in tax is not austerity, its profligacy. But at least he's hoping to reduce that profligacy.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    edited July 2015
    Plato said:

    Most entertaining leg-pulling.

    OchEye said:

    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
    Really Plato? Let's be honest here, we have 3 plastic wanna be's against 1 individualist who seems to be more attuned to the the UK voter.

    Edited due to stupid spelchucker.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    OchEye said:

    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
    Ironic post of the day award.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    OchEye said:

    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
    Corbyn may know parliament, but he has no experience of the levers of government power. That's not a dealbreaker for me personally, but I really don't think his experience is a plus in that direction at least. Presenting as the outsider who will mix things up, because of his lack of 'establishment' experience, seems a better fit than playing up 'this guy knows the dark secrets of political power just like the other guys'.

    As for being underestimated, I was one of those who thought Labour should have gone harder as anti-austerity, not because I think it is a good idea - I didn't and don't, the cutting back on cutting back, as it were, is something of a failure of GO in my view - but because I thought the wider public would be amenable to that message.

    I was, however, wrong. Maybe the public don't care as much about restricting spending like the Tories claim to want to do, so an anti-austerity message might work to some extent, but a significant proportion also seem to, contradictorily, regard a failure to at least make those kind of noises as signalling a lack of economic credibility.

    Finally, I do not see how one can claim that Corbyn is attuned to the majority attitude - if he was, why has his faction within Labour not been preeminent and won elections, or even come close? Parties do their best to reflect what the public want, or else they cannot win, and so if Corbyn's views were anything close to what the public want he'd not have spent all this time on the backbenches.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2015
    notme said:

    OchEye said:

    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
    2 million jobs would say otherwise. GO never really practiced austerity. Spending £80 billion more than you take in in tax is not austerity, its profligacy. But at least he's hoping to reduce that profligacy.
    Austerity is the change from the starting point. From a day zero of May 2010 Osborne has changed things so that next year he takes £100bn more in taxes than he'll be spending - relative to what was inherited.

    You can't just pretend there was no inherited situation in 2010.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    I think I may have to stand up, in a manner of speaking, for the 'plastic wannabes' of the leadership race. Not because I like that style of politician particularly, but recognising that trends develop for a reason, and if the public did not reward the trending of our political class in a certain direction, it would not have happened.

    Ergo, we hear a lot of complaints about our bland, cautious, identikit, party automaton, professional, youngish politicians - they're all the same, they have no experience outside politics, they speak in focus group language, etc etc - and I share in a lot of that, but a lot of the time it seems if we get prominent MPs who are older, or atypical. things don't often go as well for them in terms of aiming for the top jobs. People like the more individualistic, unfiltered MPs more, but for party leaders who will appeal as widely as possible, Mr and Mrs Blandy seem to be the order of the day in present times.

    Maybe that will begin to change, people will react against the prevailing type at some point and maybe we are seeing signs of it, but really, the politicians were just giving us what we wanted - safe and nonthreatening.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    notme said:

    OchEye said:

    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
    2 million jobs would say otherwise. GO never really practiced austerity. Spending £80 billion more than you take in in tax is not austerity, its profligacy. But at least he's hoping to reduce that profligacy.
    Austerity is the change from the starting point. From a day zero of May 2010 Osborne has changed things so that next year he takes £100bn more in taxes than he'll be spending - relative to what was inherited.

    You can't just pretend there was no inherited situation in 2010.
    So the UK government bailed out the (let's be honest here, criminal) banks and financial sectors, the Labour government nearly succeeds in recovery. DC and Go lie their way into a coalition and manage to waste 5 years in perpetuating a myth of Austerity?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Pretty much the only preGE2010 category in which LibDem MPs dramatically overachieved was the number of anti-Semites.
    Plato said:

    GE2010 How many LD MPs filled the absent categories, that'd be instructive.

    GeoffM said:

    AndyJS said:

    With only 8 MPs, I don't think you can expect there to be much diversity.

    Lib Dem MP diversity

    Females 0
    BME 0
    Under forty years old 0
    LGBT 0
    Unmarried 0
    Childless 0

    Why don't you expect "much diversity"? If the candidates reflected the country then statistically you would expect much more than this.

    In fact statistically you'd have had to go to some considerable effort to achieve this level of underachievement.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    notme said:

    GO never really practiced austerity. Spending £80 billion more than you take in in tax is not austerity, its profligacy. But at least he's hoping to reduce that profligacy.

    Some on here have been criticized by Tories for questioning the rate at which Osborne has reduced the deficit - that is to say the Tories think Osborne has been cutting as fast as he can without risking the economic recovery.

    Personally I think Osborne could have gone further and earlier and it would probably have needed tax rises (though I guess there was an election and all that entails). But I'm confident that if things go wrong in the next few years, it will be because we haven't got rid of the deficit.

    In theory that should leave Labour with nowhere to go as they have been, in my opinion, living in cloud cuckoo land with respect to the deficit. But then again the Tories weren't exactly shouting from the rooftops that Brown was spending too much and it didn't stop them from winning in 2010.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    OchEye said:

    notme said:

    OchEye said:

    fitalass said:

    You would need a heart of stone not to laugh...

    Daily Telegraph - Jeremy Corbyn backers abandon ship and call Labour grandees to intervene

    Firstly, can I say sorry if I flagged you as spam, using a tablet which means that the icons are too small for my big fingers.

    Corbyn is being underestimated. He is a long term MP after all, which means that he knows of the levers of power, probably better than all of the government front bench put together.

    He also seems to be better attuned to the attitude of the majority of the UK. Austerity has never worked, and the austerity as practiced by GO is no more than a joke.
    2 million jobs would say otherwise. GO never really practiced austerity. Spending £80 billion more than you take in in tax is not austerity, its profligacy. But at least he's hoping to reduce that profligacy.
    Austerity is the change from the starting point. From a day zero of May 2010 Osborne has changed things so that next year he takes £100bn more in taxes than he'll be spending - relative to what was inherited.

    You can't just pretend there was no inherited situation in 2010.
    So the UK government bailed out the (let's be honest here, criminal) banks and financial sectors, the Labour government nearly succeeds in recovery. DC and Go lie their way into a coalition and manage to waste 5 years in perpetuating a myth of Austerity?
    If austerity is a myth, it is one all sides have participated in (hence making it even more unlikely to be a myth) - after all, if there has not been austerity, it cannot have been purely a Cameron and Osborne perpetuated myth, since Labour just spent five years telling us how hard the pair have been cutting services to the bone and then some with their cutting.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    tlg86 said:

    notme said:

    GO never really practiced austerity. Spending £80 billion more than you take in in tax is not austerity, its profligacy. But at least he's hoping to reduce that profligacy.

    Some on here have been criticized by Tories for questioning the rate at which Osborne has reduced the deficit - that is to say the Tories think Osborne has been cutting as fast as he can without risking the economic recovery.

    Personally I think Osborne could have gone further and earlier and it would probably have needed tax rises (though I guess there was an election and all that entails). But I'm confident that if things go wrong in the next few years, it will be because we haven't got rid of the deficit.

    In theory that should leave Labour with nowhere to go as they have been, in my opinion, living in cloud cuckoo land with respect to the deficit. But then again the Tories weren't exactly shouting from the rooftops that Brown was spending too much and it didn't stop them from winning in 2010.
    Interesting point, but they didn't win a majority, they had (as the SNP thought in 2007) tnthe plastic bendy cards of the LibDems to bail them out
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