A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
There must be no dissent. SNP MPs are forbidden to criticise the leader
The attempts by the EU Commission to blur the distinction between the Eurozone and the EU is one of the few things that could drive me decisively into the No camp on the referendum.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
There must be no dissent. SNP MPs are forbidden to criticise the leader
" One fascinating facet of the Shadow Cabinet split is that Harman apparently has the support of Chris Leslie (tipped to be Shadow Chancellor if Cooper wins) and Rachel Reeves (tipped to be Shadow Chancellor if Burnham wins), despite their favoured candidates showing opposition. The brouhaha may not be solved simply by the election of a new leader.
There are two big Labour speeches this morning. Andy Burnham is delivering a speech on a “New Economy” at Microsoft in Reading, where he will lay out five principles that will guide his management of the economy. He will also argue that while investment in public services did not cause the 2008 crash, and the deficit was not significant by historical standards, Labour should have done more to control spending.
Tristram Hunt, a high-profile Liz Kendall supporter, will make a speech on Labour’s approach to England, ahead of a Commons debate on EVEL later today. In it, he gives his backing to the formation of an English Labour Party - something which Jon Cruddas has let slip is happening, even if it does not have official sign off from Labour HQ."
If Burnham wins, as I very much expect, he would be crazy not to have Yvette Cooper as his Shadow Chancellor. She has treasury experience, she is the closest Labour has to being as smart as Osborne, she likes the detail (so much so this is a drawback for her being leader) and she is tenacious. It would also help bring the party back together again after a leadership campaign that has been increasingly divisive.
Rachel Reeves has many of the same attributes as Cooper but just a bit less of each, at least in my judgment.
This morning on Today, heard squeals from the Unions that if the opt-in for the political levy is passed, "they did not know how the Labour party would survive."
It is clear that the public buy all this stuff about if only we had been running a surplus before the crisis etc etc. But, seriously, what material difference would it have actually made? A surplus of say £5billion in 2007/8 would still have been blown out of the water by the £50b put into the failed banks never mind the billions then lost in revenue due to the following recession.
I think Osborne has taken a risk. His colours are nailed firmly to the sound money mast. What will be their pitch in 2020 if we have had another recession and the roof is still not fixed?
It would have made a massive difference, it is the entire point of Keynesian cyclical economics that ignorant left have turned their backs on.
It is OK to run a deficit during a recession, nobody is saying otherwise. Don't conflate the two issues. But by running a surplus in the good times it means that the deficit when it arrives is considerably lower plus there are some savings for it. It also lowers are debt ratio while in good times not just by the surplus itself but the surplus PLUS economic growth. While in recession debt ratio grows by the deficit PLUS economic contraction. That is a sustainable model.
In the three years before the recession hit average deficit was £37bn per year. That was the starting point that debt then exploded from. Had he just been fiscally neutral (no surplus) in the good times then all corresponding deficits after the recession hit would have been lower by that. Had there just been a £3bn surplus then we'd have borrowed £120bn less debt before the recession and the 2010 deficit would have been just £116bn - far more manageable.
" One fascinating facet of the Shadow Cabinet split is that Harman apparently has the support of Chris Leslie (tipped to be Shadow Chancellor if Cooper wins) and Rachel Reeves (tipped to be Shadow Chancellor if Burnham wins), despite their favoured candidates showing opposition. The brouhaha may not be solved simply by the election of a new leader.
There are two big Labour speeches this morning. Andy Burnham is delivering a speech on a “New Economy” at Microsoft in Reading, where he will lay out five principles that will guide his management of the economy. He will also argue that while investment in public services did not cause the 2008 crash, and the deficit was not significant by historical standards, Labour should have done more to control spending.
Tristram Hunt, a high-profile Liz Kendall supporter, will make a speech on Labour’s approach to England, ahead of a Commons debate on EVEL later today. In it, he gives his backing to the formation of an English Labour Party - something which Jon Cruddas has let slip is happening, even if it does not have official sign off from Labour HQ."
If Burnham wins, as I very much expect, he would be crazy not to have Yvette Cooper as his Shadow Chancellor. She has treasury experience, she is the closest Labour has to being as smart as Osborne, she likes the detail (so much so this is a drawback for her being leader) and she is tenacious. It would also help bring the party back together again after a leadership campaign that has been increasingly divisive.
Rachel Reeves has many of the same attributes as Cooper but just a bit less of each, at least in my judgment.
It's to be expected at the current record high levels of employment and low levels unemployment that the figures will fluctuate from now on. In my view, we are returning to labour market stability where the numbers move with peak hiring and firing patterns, along with the summer entry of students and school leavers to the jobs market.
Some interesting pieces within the bulletin:
a) 12,000 Strike Days lost in month - 10,000 were public sector, 2,000 private sector. Five times as much industrial action and with only a fifth as many workers;
b) Slight decline in job vacancies driven by small employers (1-9 employees);
c) Most of the rise in unemployment is public sector lay-offs;
d) As the number of lone parent claimants falls, the number of females too unwell to work rises;
e) Employment Rates.
UK Overall 73.3%
84.1% EU8 - Poland, Latvia, Lithuania etc 79.0% EU27 76.7% EU2 - Romania and Bulgaria 74.0% UK Born 70.6% India 66.8% African (excl South Africa) 53.0% Pakistani/Bangladeshi
Goodness. That is a very large difference between groups. What can be driving those differences for them to be so big?
The dishonesty is yours. Labour are not blamed for the "global financial crisis" that is pure spin. Labour are blamed for failing to fix the roof before the global crisis hit.
Between 1979 & 1997, the Tories ran a structural deficit every year and a current account deficit for 16 of those 18 years - why didn't they 'fix the roof'?
What I would say is this: I think if Labour had it all to do again, they'd have made it more of a priority to achieve a budget surplus.
But, they didn't know there was a financial crisis coming. Apart from a few heterodox economists and maverick commentators, no-one did.
We were supposedly in a Great Moderation. Markets were efficient. Expectations were rational.
Of course, that wasn't actually the case. That's not Labour's fault.
Wrong. Totally wrong.
Prior to the UK's recession of 1990 the Tories were running a budget surplus of £4.2 in 1989 and a budget surplus of £3.9 in 1988. This meant that sensible pro-cyclical deficits could be ran (and were being shrank) after the 1990 recession.
Now just imagine what a different position we'd be in if Gordon Brown had been running a surplus in 2006 and 2007.
As for an "end to boom and bust" that was Brown's own bulls**t. If he fell for his own bulls**t he's still responsible for it. All economists know there is an economic cycle and would have expected a recession to happen eventually (even if the direct cause or date of it isn't know). To expect no future recessions is as moronic as expecting no future rain.
I think Osborne has taken a risk. His colours are nailed firmly to the sound money mast. What will be their pitch in 2020 if we have had another recession and the roof is still not fixed?
A very good point. We may be due a recession in 2017 onwards.
The world, or our corner of it anyway, is increasingly liberal socially in many ways (gay marriage, capital punishment, hopefully marijuana soon ...) - though not all ways - see our growing prison population. Whether it is liberal economically depends on whether you take Gladstone's or Lloyd George's definition of liberalism.
Maybe in much of the west, though there are increasingly hostile actions illegal immigrants and tougher security measures because of terrorism etc. I don't think anyone would class Russia or the Middle East or China as liberal at the moment
Mr HYUFD, that's why I qualified my statement with "or our corner of it anyway".
I don't think Russia or the Middle East will be affected much by the liberalism, or otherwise, of whoever OGH and others choose as LD leader!
The world, or our corner of it anyway, is increasingly liberal socially in many ways (gay marriage, capital punishment, hopefully marijuana soon ...) - though not all ways - see our growing prison population. Whether it is liberal economically depends on whether you take Gladstone's or Lloyd George's definition of liberalism.
Maybe in much of the west, though there are increasingly hostile actions illegal immigrants and tougher security measures because of terrorism etc. I don't think anyone would class Russia or the Middle East or China as liberal at the moment
Mr HYUFD, that's why I qualified my statement with "or our corner of it anyway".
I don't think Russia or the Middle East will be affected much by the liberalism, or otherwise, of whoever OGH and others choose as LD leader!
Well that is certainly true yes, though I believe Clegg was blacklisted by Putin (though one of Clegg's ancestors did try and assassinate Lenin)
Funny how the US presidential enquiry did not blame Britain then? You'd have thought they'd be pleased to avoid the charge that it "started in America". The reason it hit Britain badly has sod all to do with regulation and a sight more to do with relying on tax revenues from the City.
On your first point, not at all, since the lax regulation was mostly Republican and the president at the time of the inquiry was presumably a Democrat. And on your second point, had our financial services sector been better regulated, it would have crashed less hard, so relying on it for tax revenues wouldn't have been such a problem.
The dishonesty is yours. Labour are not blamed for the "global financial crisis" that is pure spin. Labour are blamed for failing to fix the roof before the global crisis hit.
Between 1979 & 1997, the Tories ran a structural deficit every year and a current account deficit for 16 of those 18 years - why didn't they 'fix the roof'?
What I would say is this: I think if Labour had it all to do again, they'd have made it more of a priority to achieve a budget surplus.
But, they didn't know there was a financial crisis coming. Apart from a few heterodox economists and maverick commentators, no-one did.
We were supposedly in a Great Moderation. Markets were efficient. Expectations were rational.
Of course, that wasn't actually the case. That's not Labour's fault.
Wrong. Totally wrong.
Prior to the UK's recession of 1990 the Tories were running a budget surplus of £4.2 in 1989 and a budget surplus of £3.9 in 1988. This meant that sensible pro-cyclical deficits could be ran (and were being shrank) after the 1990 recession.
Now just imagine what a different position we'd be in if Gordon Brown had been running a surplus in 2006 and 2007.
As for an "end to boom and bust" that was Brown's own bulls**t. If he fell for his own bulls**t he's still responsible for it. All economists know there is an economic cycle and would have expected a recession to happen eventually (even if the direct cause or date of it isn't know). To expect no future recessions is as moronic as expecting no future rain.
I think Osborne has taken a risk. His colours are nailed firmly to the sound money mast. What will be their pitch in 2020 if we have had another recession and the roof is still not fixed?
A very good point. We may be due a recession in 2017 onwards.
Maybe if we get another recession while not yet recovered from the last one, those still advocating higher borrowing and spending might finally get the message about the need to be prudent in the good times?
The Tories launching a crackdown on Labour's union funding, and Labour responding by launching a crackdown on Tory corporate funding, seems to demonstrate that partisanship can work very well for the general public.
OGH Going on your statements in this article at a guess did you vote for Alan Beith in 1988, Malcolm Bruce in 1999, Chris Huhne in 2006 and 2007 as well as Lamb in 2015?
All correct except 1999 when I voted for David Rendel.
OGH Going on your statements in this article at a guess did you vote for Alan Beith in 1988, Malcolm Bruce in 1999, Chris Huhne in 2006 and 2007 as well as Lamb in 2015?
All correct except 1999 when I voted for David Rendel.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
' Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government'
A fantasy of your own making.
Still, it's good to see the SNP working hard to make their MP's even more irrelevant.
OGH a brave vote. ... Can the new Leader get the Lib Dems back to 2,000 councillors, or will the councillor losses continue?
I think the answer is yes, Mr Betting, back to 2000 councillors. Though it is the activists on the ground who win local elections, rather than the leader himself. His function will be to inspire the troops and to present a clear Liberal vision to the nation.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
' Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government'
A fantasy of your own making.
Still, it's good to see the SNP working hard to make their MP's even more irrelevant.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
That’s a keeper – a case study for historians and psychiatrists for years to come.
It's to be expected at the current record high levels of employment and low levels unemployment that the figures will fluctuate from now on. In my view, we are returning to labour market stability where the numbers move with peak hiring and firing patterns, along with the summer entry of students and school leavers to the jobs market.
Some interesting pieces within the bulletin:
a) 12,000 Strike Days lost in month - 10,000 were public sector, 2,000 private sector. Five times as much industrial action and with only a fifth as many workers;
b) Slight decline in job vacancies driven by small employers (1-9 employees);
c) Most of the rise in unemployment is public sector lay-offs;
d) As the number of lone parent claimants falls, the number of females too unwell to work rises;
e) Employment Rates.
UK Overall 73.3%
84.1% EU8 - Poland, Latvia, Lithuania etc 79.0% EU27 76.7% EU2 - Romania and Bulgaria 74.0% UK Born 70.6% India 66.8% African (excl South Africa) 53.0% Pakistani/Bangladeshi
Goodness. That is a very large difference between groups. What can be driving those differences for them to be so big?
I suspect that the major one is participation of women in the workforce.
Osborne's dividends raid valued upwards of £6bn "The accountancy firm believes that the dividend tax hike – an effective 7.5% increase in rates – will end up “discouraging entrepreneurial activity and enterprise”, reported City AM."
Do the Tories want to encourage small businesses and entrepreneurs?
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
.As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
The Varoufakis strategy then......how did that turn out?
And that's how the ALF justified digging up grannies.
Three animal rights extremists involved in the theft of the body of an elderly woman from her grave were yesterday jailed for 12 years each in what is seen by police and prosecutors as a groundbreaking case.
The militants, including a vicar's son and a psychiatric nurse, led what they called a "holocaust" against a farm which bred guinea pigs for medical research. Jon Ablewhite, John Smith and Kerry Whitburn pursued a six-year hate campaign against Darley Oaks farm in Newchurch, Staffordshire. Whitburn's girlfriend, Josephine Mayo, was sentenced to four years for a lesser part in the campaign.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
That’s a keeper – a case study for historians and psychiatrists for years to come.
Osborne's dividends raid valued upwards of £6bn "The accountancy firm believes that the dividend tax hike – an effective 7.5% increase in rates – will end up “discouraging entrepreneurial activity and enterprise”, reported City AM."
Do the Tories want to encourage small businesses and entrepreneurs?
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
.As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
The Varoufakis strategy then......how did that turn out?
OGH a brave vote. ... Can the new Leader get the Lib Dems back to 2,000 councillors, or will the councillor losses continue?
I think the answer is yes, Mr Betting, back to 2000 councillors. Though it is the activists on the ground who win local elections, rather than the leader himself. His function will be to inspire the troops and to present a clear Liberal vision to the nation.
Having looked up the figures, there are now 1807 Lib Dem councillors in place, plus a few more who won their seats in recent byelections.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
So destroying your biggest trading partner is in your own best interest ?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
So destroying your biggest trading partner is in your own best interest ?
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
So destroying your biggest trading partner is in your own best interest ?
Only in Natland.
#ZuBefehlHerrSchaeuble
Perhaps it's a good time to revisit another fantasy, Salmond's infamous Celtic Lion speech.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
So destroying your biggest trading partner is in your own best interest ?
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
So destroying your biggest trading partner is in your own best interest ?
I sometimes wish the UK Government would just throw it's toys out of the pram and refuse to pay (or take an equivalent amount out of our contributions to the EU).
Mr. Dair, unelected and illegitimate? They won an election. That's the opposite of unelected.
"But when you are dealing with fanatics, they do not worry about the means as long as they achieve their desired endpoint. "
Correct. Dair exposes himself as a true loony cultist with zero grasp of reality. Hysteria piled on top of hubris is what characterises the SNP at the moment. Mr Loony-toons comments however do demonstrate that the main SNP tactic is to encourage, through themselves as the conduit, the Scots and Scotland to be hated by the English and expelled from the UK since there is no likelihood of them voluntarily voting to leave. We should not fall for it.
I've been watching Jeremy Kyle over the last week. I'd like to pretend this was an anthropological exercise, but I'd be lying - it's just gobsmacking TV.
What does come up again and again is the tactic of provoking another into doing what you want, then blaming them for it. The SNP are like a nagging fishwife whose husband eventually never comes back from the pub - then shrieks that he left her.
Mr. Dair, unelected and illegitimate? They won an election. That's the opposite of unelected.
"But when you are dealing with fanatics, they do not worry about the means as long as they achieve their desired endpoint. "
Correct. Dair exposes himself as a true loony cultist with zero grasp of reality. Hysteria piled on top of hubris is what characterises the SNP at the moment. Mr Loony-toons comments however do demonstrate that the main SNP tactic is to encourage, through themselves as the conduit, the Scots and Scotland to be hated by the English and expelled from the UK since there is no likelihood of them voluntarily voting to leave. We should not fall for it.
Labour will keep secret how party members, trade unionists and supporters vote in the summer contests for the leadership and the Mayor of London, the Evening Standard has learned.
Party chiefs ruled that they will only publish the overall votes for each candidate, without breaking it down into different categories of voter.
The decision means that the public will not know whether the winner owes a debt to trade union backing — a charge that dogged former leader Ed Miliband.
was anyone seriously expecting anything different ?
No, because I have very little confidence in Cameron when it comes to the EU. But even so its a bit blatant. They know its going to be controversial in the UK, and in EU terms its not like 850m is a lot of money, so its a conspicuous slap in the face, that is to say a political action to embarrass the UK.
was anyone seriously expecting anything different ?
No, because I have very little confidence in Cameron when it comes to the EU. But even so its a bit blatant. They know its going to be controversial in the UK, and in EU terms its not like 850m is a lot of money, so its a conspicuous slap in the face, that is to say a political action to embarrass the UK.
Even worse is the pretence that Greece can repay its loans.
Labour will keep secret how party members, trade unionists and supporters vote in the summer contests for the leadership and the Mayor of London, the Evening Standard has learned.
Party chiefs ruled that they will only publish the overall votes for each candidate, without breaking it down into different categories of voter.
The decision means that the public will not know whether the winner owes a debt to trade union backing — a charge that dogged former leader Ed Miliband.
My personal take on the 'did Labour spend too much question' is to imagine that UK public expenditure had undergone a stress test in late 2006, much like the banks now do. I wonder whether anyone in 2006, even with a risk background, would have set the parameters of that stress test as a banking collapse with a 6% fall in GDP that would take 7 years to make good?
And yet, I feel the UK governments, left and right, have passed this very harsh stress test with flying colours - a peak debt-to-GDP ratio of around 75-80% (depending on the measure) is still somewhat below what any economist would consider as a squeaky bum territory for a nation's public finances. It has not been so much fun going through such a real life stress test, but you could argue that Labour spending at that time left us with an appropriate debt level, direction of travel and ability to make cuts and that these allowed first Darling then Osborne the space in which those necessary cuts could be made.
Of course, the public finances still do have to be made good, as I'm sure if you gamed a serious stress test against the post-crash public finances in 2015, things wouldn't come out nearly so well. Any case made defending previous Labour spending absolutely does not lead automatically to opposition for further austerity/public sector restructuring now.
And to me, the elephant in the room is that we dealt with the issues in the public finances that constituted around 1/7 of the UK's net debt (as at the start of all this), we still need to talk and act far more on the more indirect changes necessary to control and reduce the other 6/7 of the UK's debt that stems from personal, business and banking.
To ensure the UK finances (public and private) remain healthy, I'm not sure either Brown's golden rules or Osborne's 'always run a surplus' cut the mustard and I would like to see a much more publicised role for the kind of regular stress testing I mention above in guiding government policy.
If Britain has to bail-out the Euro in this roughshod fashion, then this is one borderline voter who will now be voting OUT, no matter what promises are made by the EU. I simply won't believe them.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
So destroying your biggest trading partner is in your own best interest ?
Only in Natland.
#ZuBefehlHerrSchaeuble
You need to stop relying on Scotland (Germany) to bail out your basket case, debt-ridden, unproductive economy in England (Greece).
Labour will keep secret how party members, trade unionists and supporters vote in the summer contests for the leadership and the Mayor of London, the Evening Standard has learned.
Party chiefs ruled that they will only publish the overall votes for each candidate, without breaking it down into different categories of voter.
The decision means that the public will not know whether the winner owes a debt to trade union backing — a charge that dogged former leader Ed Miliband.
If Britain has to bail-out the Euro in this roughshod fashion, then this is one borderline voter who will now be voting OUT, no matter what promises are made by the EU. I simple won't believe them.
I think in an ideal world, we'd be better off in - but given the EU is ignoring the very sensible letter from the IMF regarding the reality of Greece, an organisation that buries it's head in the sand so much is difficult to vote for. Of course we're a long way off, but perhaps real, proper reform of the EU can only come by one of it's most valuable members (us?) heading out.
Osborne's dividends raid valued upwards of £6bn "The accountancy firm believes that the dividend tax hike – an effective 7.5% increase in rates – will end up “discouraging entrepreneurial activity and enterprise”, reported City AM."
Do the Tories want to encourage small businesses and entrepreneurs?
Do you think it is right that people who own companies can take some of their earnings in the form of dividends avoiding NI without paying some form of additional tax?
If Britain has to bail-out the Euro in this roughshod fashion, then this is one borderline voter who will now be voting OUT, no matter what promises are made by the EU. I simple won't believe them.
I think in an ideal world, we'd be better off in - but given the EU is ignoring the very sensible letter from the IMF regarding the reality of Greece, an organisation that buries it's head in the sand so much is difficult to vote for. Of course we're a long way off, but perhaps real, proper reform of the EU can only come by one of it's most valuable members (us?) heading out.
The migrant crisis in the med is reason enough to vote NO even if everything else was tickety boo
You should just turn the whole EU thing around and ask the question, if the UK was not a member and the public were asked whether they wanted to join, what might the answer be?
You need to stop relying on Scotland (Germany) to bail out your basket case, debt-ridden, unproductive economy in England (Greece).
I appreciate you are trying to win an argument here, but you don't actually believe that, do you?
PB Tories blame all the problems in Greece on Greeks' ove of left wing governments.
But the root problem is that Greece was run by predominantly right wing parties whose opinion on taxation was that it was optional. There are a lot of parallels between this and how both the Blairite and Tory governments view tax collection in the UK. As long as you are big enough or rich enough, tax enforcement is lacking.
Of course the Westminster system has a much more refined and high level form of corruption than Faki Laki. The system of party funding and providing a retirement scheme for former politicians who have proved "helpful" takes things to a whole new level.
Then you add in the reliance on debt, the overgenerous state pension hand outs and the proliferance of early retirement (especially in the public sector where few pension savnigs schemes exist and its paid for out of current revenue) and you have a very Greek economy promoted by the Westminster system.
Mr Thompson - I commend your reply to rottenborough on the disaster of Labours deficits when we were in a period of growth. You point out, ''in the three years before the recession hit average deficit was £37bn per year. '' In fact never mind that we should have been at least breaking even - during that time we should have been running surpluses of over £30bn. So over 3 years our debt would have been some £200bn lower. The real disaster of labour was that between 2000 and 2010 they increased spending in real terms by 50% (see David Smith, Sunday Times). As the deficits prove - there was no money to pay for this massive increase. We see the results of that to this day in the huge difficulties we have in reducing that spending.
Whilst overall spending increased by 50% in real terms, health care spending almost doubled in real terms between 1999 and 2010 (economicshelp.org). Plus, as economics.org point out during this period, ''the budget situation was also improved by impressive tax revenues from the housing and financial boom. When the credit crunch hit, tax revenues rapidly dwindled causing a marked deterioration in public finances.'' In other words, not only was the economy not capable of generating the necessary revenues, the cyclical part of the economy was much bigger than the govt (Brown and Balls) believed and thus the structural deficit was much bigger.
You should just turn the whole EU thing around and ask the question, if the UK was not a member and the public were asked whether they wanted to join, what might the answer be?
I doubt yes would even get 30%
It depends what the situation in the UK was in this parallel universe.
Labour will keep secret how party members, trade unionists and supporters vote in the summer contests for the leadership and the Mayor of London, the Evening Standard has learned.
Party chiefs ruled that they will only publish the overall votes for each candidate, without breaking it down into different categories of voter.
The decision means that the public will not know whether the winner owes a debt to trade union backing — a charge that dogged former leader Ed Miliband.
Can you give some examples of first time offenders sent to prison for low grade offences please?
His career was already over, his reputation was forever damaged, the chances of him re-offending was likely to very low, he wasn't a threat to the public, we spent more money keeping him in prison than he fleeced sending him to a Cat B prison (IE a non open prison) for the first few weeks of his sentence.
was anyone seriously expecting anything different ?
No, because I have very little confidence in Cameron when it comes to the EU. But even so its a bit blatant. They know its going to be controversial in the UK, and in EU terms its not like 850m is a lot of money, so its a conspicuous slap in the face, that is to say a political action to embarrass the UK.
No disrespect intended to the UK but when they came up with this at 4 in the morning after five months of playing chicken and a night of yelling at each other while 11 million people were unable to get their money out of the bank, I doubt British domestic politics were the main consideration.
A question for the SNPers on here - how do you feel about a whipped SNP vote on the Assisted Dying Bill when other Parties are allowing a free vote on this highly personal issue of conscience?
Is this a good tactic by Ms Sturgeon to annoy her way to victory for SIndy or a step too far that will alienate SNP voters who don't like an issue like this to be a political football?
Nothing the SNP do will alienate voters who now believe that Independence is in the best interests of Scotland.
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
So destroying your biggest trading partner is in your own best interest ?
Only in Natland.
#ZuBefehlHerrSchaeuble
You need to stop relying on Scotland (Germany) to bail out your basket case, debt-ridden, unproductive economy in England (Greece).
I know Dair's isn't everyone's brand of comedy, but honestly, its the way he tells them.
So all those posts from Nats about how the Tories were failing Scotland.....?
This time last month the numbers were the other way round - who did the PBers blame this on - SNP of the Tories ?
I blamed it on north sea oil and the significant cut backs in employment that were following the collapse in the oil price. This month's figures are good news for Scotland although it is noteworthy that the UK increase in unemployment was driven by reductions in headcount in the public sector. If Scotland is not doing the same there may be troubles ahead.
It is also noteworthy that the fall in unemployment was much, much larger than the rise in employment which might point to seasonal factors, especially at this time of year. Still, welcome, especially after several months of rising unemployment.
was anyone seriously expecting anything different ?
No, because I have very little confidence in Cameron when it comes to the EU. But even so its a bit blatant. They know its going to be controversial in the UK, and in EU terms its not like 850m is a lot of money, so its a conspicuous slap in the face, that is to say a political action to embarrass the UK.
No disrespect intended to the UK but when they came up with this at 4 in the morning after five months of playing chicken and a night of yelling at each other while 11 million people were unable to get their money out of the bank, I doubt British domestic politics was the main consideration.
Perhaps they shouldn't be such a bunch of incompetents then, and the Greece government could tidy up its act as well!
Way to run a Customs Union, maybe rescue 11m people, but probably not because the numbers are bunk and the proposals haven't a prayer of working, and at the same time potentially alienate the UK enough to lose 60m people and one of the major contributors, excellent!
What to read in to this? Labour will keep secret how party members, trade unionists and supporters vote in the summer contests for the leadership and the Mayor of London, the Evening Standard has learned. Party chiefs ruled that they will only publish the overall votes for each candidate, without breaking it down into different categories of voter. The decision means that the public will not know whether the winner owes a debt to trade union backing — a charge that dogged former leader Ed Miliband. http://bit.ly/1Ma25mI
If you have different classes of voter then you should show the split.
Osborne's dividends raid valued upwards of £6bn "The accountancy firm believes that the dividend tax hike – an effective 7.5% increase in rates – will end up “discouraging entrepreneurial activity and enterprise”, reported City AM."
Do the Tories want to encourage small businesses and entrepreneurs?
As a self employed small businessman I'm absolutely furious about this - the lower tax was surely a quid pro quo for the lack of security / other perks of permanent employment. This government cares about no one but big business. Imagine if they'd said before the election they were going to give most small business people a 7.5% tax hike. They'd have been annihilated.
So the EU is going to just completely ignore a previous agreement with the UK? They just don't give a damn about any principle of trust or rule of law do they? They are actively putting up two fingers to us.
Cameron has to have an thoroughly robust response to this. It completely destroys his argument that we can rely on a non-treaty change agreement. The EU will just ignore it a few years down the line, just like they ignored the promises to address CAP spending, just like they ignored the agreement to limit the EU budget.
I'm general pretty calm on politics, not seeing the need to rise to the absurdities of politicians, but this has genuinely made me angry. I said the other night I had moved from being a 70% in to a 55% in for the Brexit referendum. If this goes through, it will tip me into the Out camp, and I'll need a substantial repatriation to be won back.
was anyone seriously expecting anything different ?
No, because I have very little confidence in Cameron when it comes to the EU. But even so its a bit blatant. They know its going to be controversial in the UK, and in EU terms its not like 850m is a lot of money, so its a conspicuous slap in the face, that is to say a political action to embarrass the UK.
No disrespect intended to the UK but when they came up with this at 4 in the morning after five months of playing chicken and a night of yelling at each other while 11 million people were unable to get their money out of the bank, I doubt British domestic politics were the main consideration.
So ?
We should have had a man round the table if anything was to involve us. It was not an EU meeting, it was a Eurogroup. The fast lane of the 2 speed Europe if you like. Money that ourselves and the Danes have put in amongst a couple of others should not be used for this purpose.
Labour will keep secret how party members, trade unionists and supporters vote in the summer contests for the leadership and the Mayor of London, the Evening Standard has learned.
Party chiefs ruled that they will only publish the overall votes for each candidate, without breaking it down into different categories of voter.
The decision means that the public will not know whether the winner owes a debt to trade union backing — a charge that dogged former leader Ed Miliband.
Can you give some examples of first time offenders sent to prison for low grade offences please?
His career was already over, his reputation was forever damaged, the chances of him re-offending was likely to very low, he wasn't a threat to the public, we spent more money keeping him in prison than he fleeced sending him to a Cat B prison (IE a non open prison) for the first few weeks of his sentence.
was anyone seriously expecting anything different ?
No, because I have very little confidence in Cameron when it comes to the EU. But even so its a bit blatant. They know its going to be controversial in the UK, and in EU terms its not like 850m is a lot of money, so its a conspicuous slap in the face, that is to say a political action to embarrass the UK.
No disrespect intended to the UK but when they came up with this at 4 in the morning after five months of playing chicken and a night of yelling at each other while 11 million people were unable to get their money out of the bank, I doubt British domestic politics were the main consideration.
But that's just the problem isn't it. The EU is a Franco-German run show where British concerns - even when made in explicit agreements, signed by every member - don't matter.
It's a bit like me paying my gambling debts out of the joint account, without telling the wife. It might get me out of one immediate hole, but there'd be a world of pain to follow.....
So all those posts from Nats about how the Tories were failing Scotland.....?
This time last month the numbers were the other way round - who did the PBers blame this on - SNP of the Tories ?
I blamed it on north sea oil and the significant cut backs in employment that were following the collapse in the oil price. This month's figures are good news for Scotland although it is noteworthy that the UK increase in unemployment was driven by reductions in headcount in the public sector. If Scotland is not doing the same there may be troubles ahead.
It is also noteworthy that the fall in unemployment was much, much larger than the rise in employment which might point to seasonal factors, especially at this time of year. Still, welcome, especially after several months of rising unemployment.
Welcome news indeed.
Another interesting number Scottish 1Q GDP was up by 0.6% even in the teeth of the north sea oil slump - the UK figure was 0.4%.
Osborne's dividends raid valued upwards of £6bn "The accountancy firm believes that the dividend tax hike – an effective 7.5% increase in rates – will end up “discouraging entrepreneurial activity and enterprise”, reported City AM."
Do the Tories want to encourage small businesses and entrepreneurs?
As a self employed small businessman I'm absolutely furious about this - the lower tax was surely a quid pro quo for the lack of security / other perks of permanent employment. This government cares about no one but big business. Imagine if they'd said before the election they were going to give most small business people a 7.5% tax hike. They'd have been annihilated.
Hence the Tories winning in 2020 isn't nailed on by any stretch of Osborne's imagination. He could lose a lot of voters, and deservedly so, the tw@t.
Not everything is a conspiracy, and people really shouldn't get het up about Telegraph articles based on speculation. The EU is not trying to renege on the agreement with the UK on the EFSM loan. What they are trying to do is find some funds in the short-term, and the EFSM has some.
As regards the UK, what they have actually said is:
We are aware of serious concerns of non-Euro area Member States.
We are therefore working on arrangements to protect non-Euro area Member States from any negative financial consequences, should the EFSM loans not be re-paid.
Osborne's dividends raid valued upwards of £6bn "The accountancy firm believes that the dividend tax hike – an effective 7.5% increase in rates – will end up “discouraging entrepreneurial activity and enterprise”, reported City AM."
Do the Tories want to encourage small businesses and entrepreneurs?
As a self employed small businessman I'm absolutely furious about this - the lower tax was surely a quid pro quo for the lack of security / other perks of permanent employment. This government cares about no one but big business. Imagine if they'd said before the election they were going to give most small business people a 7.5% tax hike. They'd have been annihilated.
Because the Labour party is economically illiterate and obsessed with "cuts", even popular ones, it was barely noticed what an aggressively tax raising budget we have just had. Approximately £6bn extra on dividends, £6bn in IPT, £1.5 bn in car tax, several billion in tax avoidance and the treatment of capital gains as income, there was a lot of material in the budget that would have had the tories in outrage mode if Chancellor Balls had done it.
But this was necessary. As it becomes obvious that more and more of our deficit is structural (since it is not just falling away on the back of trend growth) more taxes and more cuts are needed to address it.
Those that use limited companies to trade get a range of benefits including a very low CT rate. The dividend/income substitution racket has gone on for too long and needed to be addressed. Not pleasant for those that benefited from it but necessary, as were the other tax increases.
was anyone seriously expecting anything different ?
No, because I have very little confidence in Cameron when it comes to the EU. But even so its a bit blatant. They know its going to be controversial in the UK, and in EU terms its not like 850m is a lot of money, so its a conspicuous slap in the face, that is to say a political action to embarrass the UK.
No disrespect intended to the UK but when they came up with this at 4 in the morning after five months of playing chicken and a night of yelling at each other while 11 million people were unable to get their money out of the bank, I doubt British domestic politics were the main consideration.
So ?
We should have had a man round the table if anything was to involve us. It was not an EU meeting, it was a Eurogroup. The fast lane of the 2 speed Europe if you like. Money that ourselves and the Danes have put in amongst a couple of others should not be used for this purpose.
I agree, but Indigo's suggestion was that it was a deliberate action to embarrass the UK, which doesn't seem plausible.
PB Tories blame all the problems in Greece on Greeks' ove of left wing governments.
But the root problem is that Greece was run by predominantly right wing parties whose opinion on taxation was that it was optional. There are a lot of parallels between this and how both the Blairite and Tory governments view tax collection in the UK. As long as you are big enough or rich enough, tax enforcement is lacking.
Of course the Westminster system has a much more refined and high level form of corruption than Faki Laki. The system of party funding and providing a retirement scheme for former politicians who have proved "helpful" takes things to a whole new level.
Then you add in the reliance on debt, the overgenerous state pension hand outs and the proliferance of early retirement (especially in the public sector where few pension savnigs schemes exist and its paid for out of current revenue) and you have a very Greek economy promoted by the Westminster system.
With you that economic competence applies equally to the taxation side as to the spending side, but not sure how much the money payed out to ex-Westminster politicians can fully drive a bankrupt England, vibrant Scotland argument, either from the size of the issue or from the historical Englishness/Scottishness of those current settlements.
Although I guess tax enforcement is on the SNP's radar, I'm not so sure that SNP policy viz-a-viz banning early public sector retirement and slashing state pensions is likely to be a major differentiator between future English and Scottish economies somehow.
Comments
I'd be APPALLED if my Party played politics over Assisted Dying. Especially so given that this has nothing to do with Scotland's populace.
It's one step removed from the ALF digging up grannies to make their point.
Yvette Cooper says she wd launch review of corporate fundng to Tory party
Rachel Reeves has many of the same attributes as Cooper but just a bit less of each, at least in my judgment.
It is OK to run a deficit during a recession, nobody is saying otherwise. Don't conflate the two issues. But by running a surplus in the good times it means that the deficit when it arrives is considerably lower plus there are some savings for it. It also lowers are debt ratio while in good times not just by the surplus itself but the surplus PLUS economic growth. While in recession debt ratio grows by the deficit PLUS economic contraction. That is a sustainable model.
In the three years before the recession hit average deficit was £37bn per year. That was the starting point that debt then exploded from. Had he just been fiscally neutral (no surplus) in the good times then all corresponding deficits after the recession hit would have been lower by that. Had there just been a £3bn surplus then we'd have borrowed £120bn less debt before the recession and the 2010 deficit would have been just £116bn - far more manageable.
If they do engage with it they will suggest that the US government is some how behind this.
EDIT: It's the absolutely definitive satellite imagery that is the real clincher.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/15/opinion/thomas-friedman-obama-makes-his-case-on-iran-nuclear-deal.html
Somewhat goes against the argument that the US manufactures reason to smear them in a propaganda war.
I don't think Russia or the Middle East will be affected much by the liberalism, or otherwise, of whoever OGH and others choose as LD leader!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3104903/No-wonder-Putin-banned-Nick-Clegg-Russia-Kremlin-believes-Lib-Dem-s-ancestor-involved-bid-kill-Lenin.html
"But when you are dealing with fanatics, they do not worry about the means as long as they achieve their desired endpoint. "
Was that a belated criticism of the Better Together campaign??
As such they have a blank cheque to do anything they can, up to an including making the United Kingdom ungovernable. Every chance they get to defeat a broken, unelected, illegitimate Tory government should be used to embarrass the United Kingdom and destroy it.
That is the only way they can maintain their principled stand of only working for the best interests of Scotland. They are achieving this and achieving it well.
Still, it's good to see the SNP working hard to make their MP's even more irrelevant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-33535056
In dog years?
That’s a keeper – a case study for historians and psychiatrists for years to come.
"The accountancy firm believes that the dividend tax hike – an effective 7.5% increase in rates – will end up “discouraging entrepreneurial activity and enterprise”, reported City AM."
Do the Tories want to encourage small businesses and entrepreneurs?
http://www.contractoruk.com/news/0012122osbornes_dividends_raid_valued_upwards_6bn.html?utm_source=NL&utm_medium=News&utm_campaign=ConNews
1) He's quite correct.
2) Can he please shut up for, oh, about four years?
Only in Natland.
#ZuBefehlHerrSchaeuble
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11738150/Greece-news-live-Britain-gets-slap-in-the-face-as-Brussels-defies-Cameron-opposition-over-Greek-loans.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20081010163026/http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/This-Week/Speeches/First-Minister/harvard-university/
Mr Loony-toons comments however do demonstrate that the main SNP tactic is to encourage, through themselves as the conduit, the Scots and Scotland to be hated by the English and expelled from the UK since there is no likelihood of them voluntarily voting to leave. We should not fall for it.
What does come up again and again is the tactic of provoking another into doing what you want, then blaming them for it. The SNP are like a nagging fishwife whose husband eventually never comes back from the pub - then shrieks that he left her.
Labour will keep secret how party members, trade unionists and supporters vote in the summer contests for the leadership and the Mayor of London, the Evening Standard has learned.
Party chiefs ruled that they will only publish the overall votes for each candidate, without breaking it down into different categories of voter.
The decision means that the public will not know whether the winner owes a debt to trade union backing — a charge that dogged former leader Ed Miliband.
http://bit.ly/1Ma25mI
Sure it will leak though.
And yet, I feel the UK governments, left and right, have passed this very harsh stress test with flying colours - a peak debt-to-GDP ratio of around 75-80% (depending on the measure) is still somewhat below what any economist would consider as a squeaky bum territory for a nation's public finances. It has not been so much fun going through such a real life stress test, but you could argue that Labour spending at that time left us with an appropriate debt level, direction of travel and ability to make cuts and that these allowed first Darling then Osborne the space in which those necessary cuts could be made.
Of course, the public finances still do have to be made good, as I'm sure if you gamed a serious stress test against the post-crash public finances in 2015, things wouldn't come out nearly so well. Any case made defending previous Labour spending absolutely does not lead automatically to opposition for further austerity/public sector restructuring now.
And to me, the elephant in the room is that we dealt with the issues in the public finances that constituted around 1/7 of the UK's net debt (as at the start of all this), we still need to talk and act far more on the more indirect changes necessary to control and reduce the other 6/7 of the UK's debt that stems from personal, business and banking.
To ensure the UK finances (public and private) remain healthy, I'm not sure either Brown's golden rules or Osborne's 'always run a surplus' cut the mustard and I would like to see a much more publicised role for the kind of regular stress testing I mention above in guiding government policy.
I doubt yes would even get 30%
But the root problem is that Greece was run by predominantly right wing parties whose opinion on taxation was that it was optional. There are a lot of parallels between this and how both the Blairite and Tory governments view tax collection in the UK. As long as you are big enough or rich enough, tax enforcement is lacking.
Of course the Westminster system has a much more refined and high level form of corruption than Faki Laki. The system of party funding and providing a retirement scheme for former politicians who have proved "helpful" takes things to a whole new level.
Then you add in the reliance on debt, the overgenerous state pension hand outs and the proliferance of early retirement (especially in the public sector where few pension savnigs schemes exist and its paid for out of current revenue) and you have a very Greek economy promoted by the Westminster system.
You point out, ''in the three years before the recession hit average deficit was £37bn per year. '' In fact never mind that we should have been at least breaking even - during that time we should have been running surpluses of over £30bn. So over 3 years our debt would have been some £200bn lower.
The real disaster of labour was that between 2000 and 2010 they increased spending in real terms by 50% (see David Smith, Sunday Times). As the deficits prove - there was no money to pay for this massive increase. We see the results of that to this day in the huge difficulties we have in reducing that spending.
Whilst overall spending increased by 50% in real terms, health care spending almost doubled in real terms between 1999 and 2010 (economicshelp.org).
Plus, as economics.org point out during this period, ''the budget situation was also improved by impressive tax revenues from the housing and financial boom. When the credit crunch hit, tax revenues rapidly dwindled causing a marked deterioration in public finances.'' In other words, not only was the economy not capable of generating the necessary revenues, the cyclical part of the economy was much bigger than the govt (Brown and Balls) believed and thus the structural deficit was much bigger.
http://bit.ly/1lgk7Xj
It is also noteworthy that the fall in unemployment was much, much larger than the rise in employment which might point to seasonal factors, especially at this time of year. Still, welcome, especially after several months of rising unemployment.
Way to run a Customs Union, maybe rescue 11m people, but probably not because the numbers are bunk and the proposals haven't a prayer of working, and at the same time potentially alienate the UK enough to lose 60m people and one of the major contributors, excellent!
Cameron has to have an thoroughly robust response to this. It completely destroys his argument that we can rely on a non-treaty change agreement. The EU will just ignore it a few years down the line, just like they ignored the promises to address CAP spending, just like they ignored the agreement to limit the EU budget.
I'm general pretty calm on politics, not seeing the need to rise to the absurdities of politicians, but this has genuinely made me angry. I said the other night I had moved from being a 70% in to a 55% in for the Brexit referendum. If this goes through, it will tip me into the Out camp, and I'll need a substantial repatriation to be won back.
We should have had a man round the table if anything was to involve us. It was not an EU meeting, it was a Eurogroup. The fast lane of the 2 speed Europe if you like. Money that ourselves and the Danes have put in amongst a couple of others should not be used for this purpose.
Anyway, childish partisan attempts at snideyness aside, stealing 40k isn't a low grade first time offence.
Any low grade offences? Or you can just say you were wrong.. everyone else on here seemed to think so anyway
Another interesting number Scottish 1Q GDP was up by 0.6% even in the teeth of the north sea oil slump - the UK figure was 0.4%.
Either the Telegraph means Greece - or I missed a hell of a PMQs.....
As regards the UK, what they have actually said is:
We are aware of serious concerns of non-Euro area Member States.
We are therefore working on arrangements to protect non-Euro area Member States from any negative financial consequences, should the EFSM loans not be re-paid.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/15/greek-crisis-mps-bailout-imf-debt-relief-alexis-tsipras-live
13.07
But this was necessary. As it becomes obvious that more and more of our deficit is structural (since it is not just falling away on the back of trend growth) more taxes and more cuts are needed to address it.
Those that use limited companies to trade get a range of benefits including a very low CT rate. The dividend/income substitution racket has gone on for too long and needed to be addressed. Not pleasant for those that benefited from it but necessary, as were the other tax increases.
Greece is going to be ungovernable.
Although I guess tax enforcement is on the SNP's radar, I'm not so sure that SNP policy viz-a-viz banning early public sector retirement and slashing state pensions is likely to be a major differentiator between future English and Scottish economies somehow.