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  • Interesting stuff on TV viewing on el Reg http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/03/ofcom_psb_report/ (caveat the article is by the idiot Andrew Orlowski). The graph on viewing habits is particularly good.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    rcs1000 said:

    watford30 said:

    MrsB said:

    Tim, Mike, Tim.
    ...Norman is more cerebral but can't grab attention in the way we are going to need with just 8 MPs.

    It's not inconceivable that number could fall even lower. Carmichael must be on very thin ice, and 2 other other MP's only have majorities of 1500 or so.
    I would bet on Carmichael to increase his majority quite substantially in 2020. He will be an absolute weathervane for anti-SNP feeling, in the most SNP hostile seat in the country.

    You also have to remember that with the reduction of seats to 600, you'd probably expect the LDs to lose to two to boundary changes. So that means they start from 6.

    That being said, if it is Heathrow that has the third runway, then Twickenham is a possible gain.
    Looks like the Carmichael case is heading towards a full hearing in Edinburgh:

    http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/10966-mp-begins-legal-battle-to-keep-his-job
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    Barnesian said:

    I have already voted for Farron for the reasons given by many on this thread.

    But almost all my LibDem activist friends (including my wife) are voting for Lamb. I am finding it difficult to find Farron supporters where I live.

    I'm surprised at the Betfair odds. Farron 1.09; Lamb 10.5

    I don't think there have been any polls of LibDem members. Lamb has the support of Paddy Ashdown and Shirley Williams. Yet it seems to be universally assumed that Farron will get it. What is the basis for this belief? Is it self-reinforcing based on the betting? The betting odds are heavily in favour of Farron so the odds must be heavily in favour of Farron?

    There appears to be quite a strong metropolitan vs rural split in the Lib Dem voting. (London, metropolitan, Party Grandees going for Lamb - Rural, long-standing foot soldiers going for Farron). (Just my obs. so anecdotal, but doesn't surprise me that it is all Lamb supporters in South West London)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    GIN1138 said:

    LOL! Lib-Dem's in local by election GAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #EveryJourneyHasAFirstStep

    Mole Valley was the start...

    http://www.molevalley.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=22179
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,680
    Lennon said:

    Barnesian said:

    I have already voted for Farron for the reasons given by many on this thread.

    But almost all my LibDem activist friends (including my wife) are voting for Lamb. I am finding it difficult to find Farron supporters where I live.

    I'm surprised at the Betfair odds. Farron 1.09; Lamb 10.5

    I don't think there have been any polls of LibDem members. Lamb has the support of Paddy Ashdown and Shirley Williams. Yet it seems to be universally assumed that Farron will get it. What is the basis for this belief? Is it self-reinforcing based on the betting? The betting odds are heavily in favour of Farron so the odds must be heavily in favour of Farron?

    There appears to be quite a strong metropolitan vs rural split in the Lib Dem voting. (London, metropolitan, Party Grandees going for Lamb - Rural, long-standing foot soldiers going for Farron). (Just my obs. so anecdotal, but doesn't surprise me that it is all Lamb supporters in South West London)
    I guess I must be a rural long-standing foot soldier. I'm certainly anti-grandee.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Corbyn is as bad on economics as he is good on foreign policy.

    Hunt has potential, lacks gravitas but he would get that if he were leader. Could see him being a compromise candidate.

    Are any of the Labour candidates in favour of joining the Russian customs union?
    No, that would be UKIP.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    calum said:

    rcs1000 said:

    watford30 said:

    MrsB said:

    Tim, Mike, Tim.
    ...Norman is more cerebral but can't grab attention in the way we are going to need with just 8 MPs.

    It's not inconceivable that number could fall even lower. Carmichael must be on very thin ice, and 2 other other MP's only have majorities of 1500 or so.
    I would bet on Carmichael to increase his majority quite substantially in 2020. He will be an absolute weathervane for anti-SNP feeling, in the most SNP hostile seat in the country.

    You also have to remember that with the reduction of seats to 600, you'd probably expect the LDs to lose to two to boundary changes. So that means they start from 6.

    That being said, if it is Heathrow that has the third runway, then Twickenham is a possible gain.
    Looks like the Carmichael case is heading towards a full hearing in Edinburgh:

    http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/10966-mp-begins-legal-battle-to-keep-his-job
    Strange, I thought certain PBers were predicting it would come to nothing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited July 2015


    Whoever wins needs to spend the next five years pretty much living in the South West campaigning day and night to retake their heartland seats there. That seems to be the only way back for LibDems.

    Certainly one of the better places to start - despite being knocked back to 3rd or even 4th even here in the SW, they still have some relatively strong (compared to elsewhere int he country bar a few exclaves) presence on councils and more second places to try to build on here.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    calum said:

    rcs1000 said:

    watford30 said:

    MrsB said:

    Tim, Mike, Tim.
    ...Norman is more cerebral but can't grab attention in the way we are going to need with just 8 MPs.

    It's not inconceivable that number could fall even lower. Carmichael must be on very thin ice, and 2 other other MP's only have majorities of 1500 or so.
    I would bet on Carmichael to increase his majority quite substantially in 2020. He will be an absolute weathervane for anti-SNP feeling, in the most SNP hostile seat in the country.

    You also have to remember that with the reduction of seats to 600, you'd probably expect the LDs to lose to two to boundary changes. So that means they start from 6.

    That being said, if it is Heathrow that has the third runway, then Twickenham is a possible gain.
    Looks like the Carmichael case is heading towards a full hearing in Edinburgh:

    http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/10966-mp-begins-legal-battle-to-keep-his-job
    Strange, I thought certain PBers were predicting it would come to nothing.
    A bet?

    £25 on Carmichael being convicted. I'll even give you 3-1.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Divvie, does that make a difference, given he has (in theory, at least) asylum in Ecuador already?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588557/BBC-send-25-staff-Liberal-Democrat-MP-party-conference

    200 BBC staff to the Lib Dem conference.

    What the hell are they all going to do ?!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    ITV are sending less than ten.
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588557/BBC-send-25-staff-Liberal-Democrat-MP-party-conference

    200 BBC staff to the Lib Dem conference.

    What the hell are they all going to do ?!

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited July 2015
    Financier said:
    Increase Tractor production in the Motherland. Or resurrect her ill fated HIPS.

    Frankly, any suggestion such as this from Cooper is one to laugh at - Labour had 13 years to do similar after 1997 and failed dismally.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588557/BBC-send-25-staff-Liberal-Democrat-MP-party-conference

    200 BBC staff to the Lib Dem conference.

    What the hell are they all going to do ?!

    Outnumber those attending as paying members?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited July 2015
    Financier said:
    She was doing all right until the last sentence: "Just as Labour championed the white heat of technology in the 1960s, so today we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world."

    How on earth did that groan-making phrase get past whoever she asked to check her speech?

    In any case it's an odd reference to make. The Wilson 'white heat of technology' guff was an unmitigated disaster, it simply involved pouring taxpayers' money down the drain.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    rcs1000 said:

    calum said:

    rcs1000 said:

    watford30 said:

    MrsB said:

    Tim, Mike, Tim.
    ...Norman is more cerebral but can't grab attention in the way we are going to need with just 8 MPs.

    It's not inconceivable that number could fall even lower. Carmichael must be on very thin ice, and 2 other other MP's only have majorities of 1500 or so.
    I would bet on Carmichael to increase his majority quite substantially in 2020. He will be an absolute weathervane for anti-SNP feeling, in the most SNP hostile seat in the country.

    You also have to remember that with the reduction of seats to 600, you'd probably expect the LDs to lose to two to boundary changes. So that means they start from 6.

    That being said, if it is Heathrow that has the third runway, then Twickenham is a possible gain.
    Looks like the Carmichael case is heading towards a full hearing in Edinburgh:

    http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/10966-mp-begins-legal-battle-to-keep-his-job
    Strange, I thought certain PBers were predicting it would come to nothing.
    A bet?

    £25 on Carmichael being convicted. I'll even give you 3-1.
    Evens on whether the case will go ahead.

    I believe you were quite adamant that it wouldn't?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    MWAH HA HAH AHAHAHAHAHAAH

    Financier said:
    She was doing all right until the last sentence: "Just as Labour championed the white heat of technology in the 1960s, so today we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world."

    How on earth did that groan-making phrase get past whoever she asked to check her speech?

    In any case it's an odd reference to make. The Wilson 'white heat of technology' guff was an unmitigated disaster, it simply involved pouring taxpayers' money down the drain.


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Pulpstar, it's a lot of money. But the alternatives aren't great:

    1) Let a man wanted in Sweden (I think) for a serious criminal offence go free
    2) Invade a foreign embassy to capture a man granted asylum by that country
    3) Pay a lot of cash to maintain a police presence so that he cannot escape

    I don't think 3) is a good option, but the others are worse.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    rcs1000 said:

    calum said:

    rcs1000 said:

    watford30 said:

    MrsB said:

    Tim, Mike, Tim.
    ...Norman is more cerebral but can't grab attention in the way we are going to need with just 8 MPs.

    It's not inconceivable that number could fall even lower. Carmichael must be on very thin ice, and 2 other other MP's only have majorities of 1500 or so.
    I would bet on Carmichael to increase his majority quite substantially in 2020. He will be an absolute weathervane for anti-SNP feeling, in the most SNP hostile seat in the country.

    You also have to remember that with the reduction of seats to 600, you'd probably expect the LDs to lose to two to boundary changes. So that means they start from 6.

    That being said, if it is Heathrow that has the third runway, then Twickenham is a possible gain.
    Looks like the Carmichael case is heading towards a full hearing in Edinburgh:

    http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/10966-mp-begins-legal-battle-to-keep-his-job
    Strange, I thought certain PBers were predicting it would come to nothing.
    A bet?

    £25 on Carmichael being convicted. I'll even give you 3-1.
    Evens on whether the case will go ahead.

    I believe you were quite adamant that it wouldn't?
    Define case going ahead?

    I suspect political pressure may take it to the court room. But I suspect the Judge will chuck it out at the first opportunity
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It's the Ecuadorian embassy staff I feel sorry for - imagine being stuck with him 365 for YEARS.

    Mr. Pulpstar, it's a lot of money. But the alternatives aren't great:

    1) Let a man wanted in Sweden (I think) for a serious criminal offence go free
    2) Invade a foreign embassy to capture a man granted asylum by that country
    3) Pay a lot of cash to maintain a police presence so that he cannot escape

    I don't think 3) is a good option, but the others are worse.

  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    What chance is it that a Farron-led Lib Dem party forms alliance with a Burnham-led Labour party?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,509
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588557/BBC-send-25-staff-Liberal-Democrat-MP-party-conference

    200 BBC staff to the Lib Dem conference.

    What the hell are they all going to do ?!

    Well, we know where 190 of the 1,000 jobs are going to come from.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    Mr. Pulpstar, it's a lot of money. But the alternatives aren't great:

    1) Let a man wanted in Sweden (I think) for a serious criminal offence go free
    2) Invade a foreign embassy to capture a man granted asylum by that country
    3) Pay a lot of cash to maintain a police presence so that he cannot escape

    I don't think 3) is a good option, but the others are worse.

    It's a question of priorities Morris - of course we'd love to have security 24/7 outside the Ecuadorian embassy, but in the present climate it is simply unaffordable. If Sweden is determined to bring him to justice in their country (The matter is no business of ours) then let them post 10 "Polisen" or so over here to stand outside the Embassy day and night.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    calum said:

    rcs1000 said:

    watford30 said:

    MrsB said:

    Tim, Mike, Tim.
    ...Norman is more cerebral but can't grab attention in the way we are going to need with just 8 MPs.

    It's not inconceivable that number could fall even lower. Carmichael must be on very thin ice, and 2 other other MP's only have majorities of 1500 or so.
    I would bet on Carmichael to increase his majority quite substantially in 2020. He will be an absolute weathervane for anti-SNP feeling, in the most SNP hostile seat in the country.

    You also have to remember that with the reduction of seats to 600, you'd probably expect the LDs to lose to two to boundary changes. So that means they start from 6.

    That being said, if it is Heathrow that has the third runway, then Twickenham is a possible gain.
    Looks like the Carmichael case is heading towards a full hearing in Edinburgh:

    http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/10966-mp-begins-legal-battle-to-keep-his-job
    Strange, I thought certain PBers were predicting it would come to nothing.
    A bet?

    £25 on Carmichael being convicted. I'll even give you 3-1.
    Evens on whether the case will go ahead.

    I believe you were quite adamant that it wouldn't?
    Define case going ahead?

    I suspect political pressure may take it to the court room. But I suspect the Judge will chuck it out at the first opportunity
    The case is heard fully and a verdict is given.


  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Good idea.
    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, it's a lot of money. But the alternatives aren't great:

    1) Let a man wanted in Sweden (I think) for a serious criminal offence go free
    2) Invade a foreign embassy to capture a man granted asylum by that country
    3) Pay a lot of cash to maintain a police presence so that he cannot escape

    I don't think 3) is a good option, but the others are worse.

    It's a question of priorities Morris - of course we'd love to have security 24/7 outside the Ecuadorian embassy, but in the present climate it is simply unaffordable. If Sweden is determined to bring him to justice in their country (The matter is no business of ours) then let them post 10 "Polisen" or so over here to stand outside the Embassy day and night.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Financier said:
    She was doing all right until the last sentence: "Just as Labour championed the white heat of technology in the 1960s, so today we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world."

    How on earth did that groan-making phrase get past whoever she asked to check her speech?

    In any case it's an odd reference to make. The Wilson 'white heat of technology' guff was an unmitigated disaster, it simply involved pouring taxpayers' money down the drain.
    It also doesn't make much sense. The only manufacturing sectors a rich country could be competitive at won't be very labour-intensive in 15 years time, as it all goes automated.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited July 2015
    JEO There may be an informal alliance on tactical voting, nothing formal, though if Burnham fell just short of a majority I would imagine Farron would support him

    On manufacturing those jobs that are still there will generally be very highly skilled so not really an option for the average worker
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,509
    Financier said:
    Some things I would do (although I only get to see a small part of one industry):

    *) Help companies produce and protect patents (particularly topical for us atm).

    *) Try to encourage more girls into STEM. Not by positive discrimination, but by use of role models.

    *) Start other competitions similar to the current Longitude Prize.

    *) Reduce energy prices. (how?)

    *) Have engineers and scientists in parliament and in the cabinet. After all, we are having quotas for gender and accents, why not for STEM? ;)
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Pulpstar said:
    A drop in the ocean to how much WikiLeaks has ultimately cost the UK, thanks to Snowden.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,509
    JEO said:

    Financier said:
    She was doing all right until the last sentence: "Just as Labour championed the white heat of technology in the 1960s, so today we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world."

    How on earth did that groan-making phrase get past whoever she asked to check her speech?

    In any case it's an odd reference to make. The Wilson 'white heat of technology' guff was an unmitigated disaster, it simply involved pouring taxpayers' money down the drain.
    It also doesn't make much sense. The only manufacturing sectors a rich country could be competitive at won't be very labour-intensive in 15 years time, as it all goes automated.
    As things get automated, things get cheaper so other tasks become possible that require more manpower.

    It's the way it's worked for the last couple of hundred years, to a degree.

    Automation is only part of the story, until at least we have managed AI-complete tasks.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    JEO said:

    What chance is it that a Farron-led Lib Dem party forms alliance with a Burnham-led Labour party?

    Someone else falling into the lazy "Farron is on the Left" mantra. I realise it's easier for many to think in terms of everyone as either Left or Right but it's not like that.

    Tim has been trenchant in his critique of Labour and it remains to be seen how much Burnham shifts ground on key issues as to whether any areas of agreement can be created. At heart, Labour are as much centralisers as the Conservatives - a Kendall-led Labour Party, well, that remains to be seen.

    Again, I wouldn't infer a Farron-led LD Party would be happy with a Neo-Blairite Labour Party either. It's far too early to tell.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993

    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588557/BBC-send-25-staff-Liberal-Democrat-MP-party-conference

    200 BBC staff to the Lib Dem conference.

    What the hell are they all going to do ?!

    Well, we know where 190 of the 1,000 jobs are going to come from.
    I'm sure you and Simon St Clare will be on here every day during LD Conference just to remind everyone how rubbish and irrelevant the party is but it's your time....

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Tragic and surely very rare - being murdered at work
    A prison custody officer has died from her injuries after being allegedly kicked and stamped on by a prisoner as she escorted him from court.

    Grandmother Lorraine Barwell, 54, who was allegedly assaulted by a prisoner at Blackfriars Crown Court in London has died, Scotland Yard said today. She suffered serious head injuries when she was attacked by the prisoner in south London on Monday.

    Her family had to make the agonising decision to switch off her life support machine yesterday after doctors at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel told them there was nothing more they could do for her.

    Former law student Humphrey Burke, 22, from Oxford, appeared at Camberwell Green Magistrate's Court yesterday, surrounded by seven-strong team of guards in body armour.

    He gave no plea to a single charge of causing grievous bodily harm.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147098/Murder-inquiry-launched-life-support-switched-court-guard-grandmother-kicked-stamped-prisoner.html#ixzz3ep1ORlCc
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Miss Plato, missed opportunity for a comedy typo on that cover, and "...oder ich scheisse" would be fitting, given Greece's situation :p
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,509
    stodge said:

    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588557/BBC-send-25-staff-Liberal-Democrat-MP-party-conference

    200 BBC staff to the Lib Dem conference.

    What the hell are they all going to do ?!

    Well, we know where 190 of the 1,000 jobs are going to come from.
    I'm sure you and Simon St Clare will be on here every day during LD Conference just to remind everyone how rubbish and irrelevant the party is but it's your time....

    An odd comment. I've praised the LDs enough on here (Cable aside) for the way they behaved in coalition, and have repeatedly said it is a shame that they got so hammered for behaving reasonably well. I've also voted LD in the past.

    On topic: for me it would have to be Farron, as I've said for quite a while.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ha!

    Miss Plato, missed opportunity for a comedy typo on that cover, and "...oder ich scheisse" would be fitting, given Greece's situation :p

  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2015
    "we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world"

    And the award for simultaneously the most stupid and most meaningless phrase used by a politician goes to Ms Cooper. Outstanding. I recommend it be engraved on a large piece of stone.

    Just to be even handed, Cameron's proposal to outlaw strong encryption products makes Cooper look like Einstein and Hawking combined.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    JJ There are 90 MPs with a STEM background or interest apparently
    http://sciencecampaign.org.uk/?page_id=1543
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    stodge said:

    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588557/BBC-send-25-staff-Liberal-Democrat-MP-party-conference

    200 BBC staff to the Lib Dem conference.

    What the hell are they all going to do ?!

    Well, we know where 190 of the 1,000 jobs are going to come from.
    I'm sure you and Simon St Clare will be on here every day during LD Conference just to remind everyone how rubbish and irrelevant the party is but it's your time....

    I have never referred to the LDs as irrelevant or anything like it – why should I start now?
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    Financier said:
    She was doing all right until the last sentence: "Just as Labour championed the white heat of technology in the 1960s, so today we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world."

    How on earth did that groan-making phrase get past whoever she asked to check her speech?

    In any case it's an odd reference to make. The Wilson 'white heat of technology' guff was an unmitigated disaster, it simply involved pouring taxpayers' money down the drain.
    It also doesn't make much sense. The only manufacturing sectors a rich country could be competitive at won't be very labour-intensive in 15 years time, as it all goes automated.
    As things get automated, things get cheaper so other tasks become possible that require more manpower.

    It's the way it's worked for the last couple of hundred years, to a degree.

    Automation is only part of the story, until at least we have managed AI-complete tasks.
    Those new jobs that have got easier have all been in services thoug, which means that an extra two million manufacturing jobs seems very unlikely.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Plato said:

    Tragic and surely very rare - being murdered at work

    A prison custody officer has died from her injuries after being allegedly kicked and stamped on by a prisoner as she escorted him from court.

    Grandmother Lorraine Barwell, 54, who was allegedly assaulted by a prisoner at Blackfriars Crown Court in London has died, Scotland Yard said today. She suffered serious head injuries when she was attacked by the prisoner in south London on Monday.

    Her family had to make the agonising decision to switch off her life support machine yesterday after doctors at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel told them there was nothing more they could do for her.

    Former law student Humphrey Burke, 22, from Oxford, appeared at Camberwell Green Magistrate's Court yesterday, surrounded by seven-strong team of guards in body armour.

    He gave no plea to a single charge of causing grievous bodily harm.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147098/Murder-inquiry-launched-life-support-switched-court-guard-grandmother-kicked-stamped-prisoner.html#ixzz3ep1ORlCc
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    I'm no lawyer but how is kicking and stamping on someone to damage them to such an extent that they die only grievous bodily harm.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    A drop in the ocean to how much WikiLeaks has ultimately cost the UK, thanks to Snowden.
    There isn't any evidence at all that Snowden has cost the UK.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    JEO said:

    Financier said:
    She was doing all right until the last sentence: "Just as Labour championed the white heat of technology in the 1960s, so today we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world."

    How on earth did that groan-making phrase get past whoever she asked to check her speech?

    In any case it's an odd reference to make. The Wilson 'white heat of technology' guff was an unmitigated disaster, it simply involved pouring taxpayers' money down the drain.
    It also doesn't make much sense. The only manufacturing sectors a rich country could be competitive at won't be very labour-intensive in 15 years time, as it all goes automated.
    At least Cooper is talking about the right things: innovation, R&D, productivity etc. This is the only way forward for Labour. Ed M didn't mention any of these things as far as I can recall.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I think yesterday's charge will be upgraded to murder now - if not, it's a travesty.

    Plato said:

    Tragic and surely very rare - being murdered at work

    A prison custody officer has died from her injuries after being allegedly kicked and stamped on by a prisoner as she escorted him from court.

    Grandmother Lorraine Barwell, 54, who was allegedly assaulted by a prisoner at Blackfriars Crown Court in London has died, Scotland Yard said today. She suffered serious head injuries when she was attacked by the prisoner in south London on Monday.

    Her family had to make the agonising decision to switch off her life support machine yesterday after doctors at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel told them there was nothing more they could do for her.

    Former law student Humphrey Burke, 22, from Oxford, appeared at Camberwell Green Magistrate's Court yesterday, surrounded by seven-strong team of guards in body armour.

    He gave no plea to a single charge of causing grievous bodily harm.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147098/Murder-inquiry-launched-life-support-switched-court-guard-grandmother-kicked-stamped-prisoner.html#ixzz3ep1ORlCc
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    I'm no lawyer but how is kicking and stamping on someone to damage them to such an extent that they die only grievous bodily harm.

  • JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 380
    rcs1000

    "I would bet on Carmichael to increase his majority quite substantially in 2020. He will be an absolute weathervane for anti-SNP feeling, in the most SNP hostile seat in the country."

    I think it most unlikely that Carmichael will dare to stand in 2020, far less win the seat with an increased majority. Both our views assume, probably correctly, that he will survive the court action.

    Also the "hostility" to the SNP in Orkney and Shetland is exactly on a par with the "hostility" to the victorious Tory Government- both polled 37% of their respective votes :-)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    She's always on the telly dressed like Carmen Miranda. Wonder what's all about.
    Charity chief Camila Batmanghelidjh is forced out after ministers refused to hand over £3m in public funds until she left

    Kids Company chief Camila Batmanghelidjh will leave role after 20 years
    Ministers refused to hand over further public funds until she left
    The charity is reliant for around 20 per cent of its funds on the government
    But ministers have allegedly raised concerns over how the charity is run

    The development is the latest blow to hit the charity. In March, Kids Company's interim finance director, head of human resources and director of development all resigned amid claims of concerns about its funding and 'high levels of stress within the workplace', the Sunday Times said.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148226/Children-s-charity-chief-Camila-Batmanghelidjh-forced-ministers-refused-hand-3m-public-funds-left.html#ixzz3ep6XbRSP
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  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    Financier said:
    She was doing all right until the last sentence: "Just as Labour championed the white heat of technology in the 1960s, so today we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world."

    How on earth did that groan-making phrase get past whoever she asked to check her speech?

    In any case it's an odd reference to make. The Wilson 'white heat of technology' guff was an unmitigated disaster, it simply involved pouring taxpayers' money down the drain.
    It also doesn't make much sense. The only manufacturing sectors a rich country could be competitive at won't be very labour-intensive in 15 years time, as it all goes automated.
    At least Cooper is talking about the right things: innovation, R&D, productivity etc. This is the only way forward for Labour. Ed M didn't mention any of these things as far as I can recall.
    Yes, it seems a rather good basis for developing a better manufacturing sector, if very broad-brush. I'm just sceptical about whether it will employ many people.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Without looking at the accounts, previously there have been suggestions of extravagant use of funds, including to the benefit of its employees.
    Plato said:

    She's always on the telly dressed like Carmen Miranda. Wonder what's all about.

    Charity chief Camila Batmanghelidjh is forced out after ministers refused to hand over £3m in public funds until she left

    Kids Company chief Camila Batmanghelidjh will leave role after 20 years
    Ministers refused to hand over further public funds until she left
    The charity is reliant for around 20 per cent of its funds on the government
    But ministers have allegedly raised concerns over how the charity is run


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148226/Children-s-charity-chief-Camila-Batmanghelidjh-forced-ministers-refused-hand-3m-public-funds-left.html#ixzz3ep6XbRSP
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. M, I agree. When it comes to tech, Cameron needs to have an enormo-haddock slap some sense into him. It's not even complicated stuff (I'm a luddite, and even I can see it's ridiculous).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Plato The accounts of Kids Company have been verified by outside bodies like LSE but whatever went on that Charity only came into being and did the work it did because of Camila Batmanghelidjh
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    ICM 32% back new Heathrow runway, 35% against 33% DK. London 37% pro 37% anti
    https://twitter.com/ICMResearch
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    Plato said:

    Tragic and surely very rare - being murdered at work

    A prison custody officer has died from her injuries after being allegedly kicked and stamped on by a prisoner as she escorted him from court.

    Grandmother Lorraine Barwell, 54, who was allegedly assaulted by a prisoner at Blackfriars Crown Court in London has died, Scotland Yard said today. She suffered serious head injuries when she was attacked by the prisoner in south London on Monday.

    Her family had to make the agonising decision to switch off her life support machine yesterday after doctors at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel told them there was nothing more they could do for her.

    Former law student Humphrey Burke, 22, from Oxford, appeared at Camberwell Green Magistrate's Court yesterday, surrounded by seven-strong team of guards in body armour.

    He gave no plea to a single charge of causing grievous bodily harm.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147098/Murder-inquiry-launched-life-support-switched-court-guard-grandmother-kicked-stamped-prisoner.html#ixzz3ep1ORlCc
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    I'm no lawyer but how is kicking and stamping on someone to damage them to such an extent that they die only grievous bodily harm.

    The maximum sentence for GBH is life, I'd hope that would be the outcome.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Iron laws of PB politics
    If PB Tories are amused by your candidate, he/she is bad. (Corbyn?)
    If PB Tories are apoplectic about your candidate, he/she is good. (Farron?)
    If PB Tories are sympathetic to your candidate, it doesn't matter because they won't tactically vote anyway.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    edited July 2015
    Plato said:
    Perhaps Greece should demand that they are given a 50% reduction of their debt and that they should only pay for debts out of their trade surplus, with any repayments being limited to 3% of exports earnings every year.

    After all there is a very good precedent.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,509
    HYUFD said:

    JJ There are 90 MPs with a STEM background or interest apparently
    http://sciencecampaign.org.uk/?page_id=1543

    Thanks for that, but just a note: it is for STEMM, so includes medicine as well. Some of the interests also seem rather obscure, e.g. Nicola Blackwood. "Stated interests in science, universities and the environment" or Tristram Hunt "Involved in establishing the Science Media Centre"
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    Twitter seems full of not so complementary remarks about Kids Company and it's spending regime. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9437932/the-trouble-with-kids-company/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    JJ Indeed, but also a fair few engineers, former doctors and some who studied STEM subjects at university too
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited July 2015
    Plato Some are also pointing out the good work the Company does, remember without Camila Batmanghelidjh there would be no kids company
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Twitter seems full of not so complementary remarks about Kids Company and it's spending regime

    I am always suspicious of charities where people are being paid. There are plenty of volunteer only charities, where nobody makes a buck.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313
    Pulpstar said:

    Plato said:

    Tragic and surely very rare - being murdered at work

    A prison custody officer has died from her injuries after being allegedly kicked and stamped on by a prisoner as she escorted him from court.

    Grandmother Lorraine Barwell, 54, who was allegedly assaulted by a prisoner at Blackfriars Crown Court in London has died, Scotland Yard said today. She suffered serious head injuries when she was attacked by the prisoner in south London on Monday.

    Her family had to make the agonising decision to switch off her life support machine yesterday after doctors at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel told them there was nothing more they could do for her.

    Former law student Humphrey Burke, 22, from Oxford, appeared at Camberwell Green Magistrate's Court yesterday, surrounded by seven-strong team of guards in body armour.

    He gave no plea to a single charge of causing grievous bodily harm.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147098/Murder-inquiry-launched-life-support-switched-court-guard-grandmother-kicked-stamped-prisoner.html#ixzz3ep1ORlCc
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    I'm no lawyer but how is kicking and stamping on someone to damage them to such an extent that they die only grievous bodily harm.
    The maximum sentence for GBH is life, I'd hope that would be the outcome.I imagine a murder charge might follow

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    She clearly isn't a living saint either. For HMG to remove funding until she steps aside, and the mass resignations point to a very real problem.

    No one is above criticism, or letting their ego get out of control.
    HYUFD said:

    Plato Some are also pointing out the good work the Company does, remember without Camila Batmanghelidjh there would be no kids company

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313
    HYUFD said:

    Plato The accounts of Kids Company have been verified by outside bodies like LSE but whatever went on that Charity only came into being and did the work it did because of Camila Batmanghelidjh

    Doesn't mean she is the right person to be CEO of what is probably a much larger organization than she ever envisaged.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Plato said:

    She clearly isn't a living saint either. For HMG to remove funding until she steps aside, and the mass resignations point to a very real problem.

    No one is above criticism, or letting their ego get out of control.

    HYUFD said:

    Plato Some are also pointing out the good work the Company does, remember without Camila Batmanghelidjh there would be no kids company

    A rather convoluted and emotive Guardian article, but the jist is, the ’Kids Company’ charity has expanded rapidly in recent years and according to Batmanghelidjh, the charity “nearly went bust” recently - to survive a serious financial crisis, it must now make £14m of cuts and sack hundreds of staff.

    The charity has been negotiating for weeks with the Cabinet Office over a one-off grant of around £3m to enable it to restructure, but somewhat unsurprisingly, they were reluctant to do so while she remained in charge.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/03/camila-batmanghelidjh-to-leave-kids-company
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited July 2015
    Plato/JL Well she has stepped down now anyway, as many pointing out needs a proper investigation not just allegations
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    HMG have removed funding based on their assessment. It's not *allegations*.
    HYUFD said:

    Plato/JL Well she has stepped down now anyway, as many pointing out needs a proper investigation not just allegations

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    taffys True, but unless you are staffed by the retired or those with trust funds who can work for free you need to pay someone
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Plato said:

    She clearly isn't a living saint either. For HMG to remove funding until she steps aside, and the mass resignations point to a very real problem.

    No one is above criticism, or letting their ego get out of control.

    HYUFD said:

    Plato Some are also pointing out the good work the Company does, remember without Camila Batmanghelidjh there would be no kids company

    A rather convoluted and emotive Guardian article, but the jist is, the ’Kids Company’ charity has expanded rapidly in recent years and according to Batmanghelidjh, the charity “nearly went bust” recently - to survive a serious financial crisis, it must now make £14m of cuts and sack hundreds of staff.

    The charity has been negotiating for weeks with the Cabinet Office over a one-off grant of around £3m to enable it to restructure, but somewhat unsurprisingly, they were reluctant to do so while she remained in charge.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/03/camila-batmanghelidjh-to-leave-kids-company
    If it nearly goes bust, has to sack hundreds of staff, then by its own acceptance something has gone badly wrong.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    antifrank said:

    watford30 said:

    MrsB said:

    Tim, Mike, Tim.
    ...Norman is more cerebral but can't grab attention in the way we are going to need with just 8 MPs.

    It's not inconceivable that number could fall even lower. Carmichael must be on very thin ice, and 2 other other MP's only have majorities of 1500 or so.
    John Pugh is in his 70s and Nick Clegg must be unlikely to stand again in 2020. And then there's the boundary review...
    Pedant alert: Pugh is 67 at the moment.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    France is not messing around. They've already rejected Assange's asylum application. "Assange is not in any immediate danger. Furthermore he is the subject of a European arrest warrant."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Plato Still needs a proper investigation
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    HYUFD said:

    Plato Some are also pointing out the good work the Company does, remember without Camila Batmanghelidjh there would be no kids company

    Reading the Spectator article, one wonders exactly how many children they have helped. Perhaps another, more efficiently run, charity could have helped more using the same funding?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I think he's just attention-seeking again.

    France is not messing around. They've already rejected Assange's asylum application. "Assange is not in any immediate danger. Furthermore he is the subject of a European arrest warrant."

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Rabbit, the charity sector is, I fear, being more and more disliked. There are chuggers, churglars (those ****s who doorknock and browbeat), telephonic hasslers and direct debits, whilst some in the sector make a lot of cash. There's also political activism, which is not compatible with charitable status.

    Worst of all, that then does damage to good charities, created and run largely/entirely by volunteers or those on low rates of pay and who are not raking it in or gouging money through relentless pestering.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/588557/BBC-send-25-staff-Liberal-Democrat-MP-party-conference 200 BBC staff to the Lib Dem conference.

    What the hell are they all going to do ?!

    Outnumber those attending as paying members?
    If you bother to read the newspaper item you cite, Mr StClare, you will see that the BBC have not yet decided precisely who they are going to send, nor how many; and so have registered 200 names while registration is free, on a just in case basis.

    Some Tories on here just read the words BBC and Lib Dems and their heads explode!

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Another element is luvvy-activism = just think of what impact the Ice Bucket Challenge for ALS had on all the other charities that lost millions as one massive PR coup hoovered up shedloads of cash.

    It's a complex market and not all full of sweeties - charity fundraisers are some of the hardest nosed people I've ever met, and lack my scruples as the ends-justify-the-means.

    Mr. Rabbit, the charity sector is, I fear, being more and more disliked. There are chuggers, churglars (those ****s who doorknock and browbeat), telephonic hasslers and direct debits, whilst some in the sector make a lot of cash. There's also political activism, which is not compatible with charitable status.

    Worst of all, that then does damage to good charities, created and run largely/entirely by volunteers or those on low rates of pay and who are not raking it in or gouging money through relentless pestering.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966

    Mr. Rabbit, the charity sector is, I fear, being more and more disliked. There are chuggers, churglars (those ****s who doorknock and browbeat), telephonic hasslers and direct debits, whilst some in the sector make a lot of cash. There's also political activism, which is not compatible with charitable status.

    Worst of all, that then does damage to good charities, created and run largely/entirely by volunteers or those on low rates of pay and who are not raking it in or gouging money through relentless pestering.

    "Churglars" - brilliant. The campaign starts here to make it Word of the Year!
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    I only donate to volunteer-only charities, and local ones at that. I used to give a lot to the RSPCA and RSPB before they went doolally tap.

    The charity sector appears to be a retirement home for ex-politicians and senior civil servants. It's the 21st century home of the old boys network.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Dancer,

    I'm not sure how a Government-funded charity is a real charity. The odd one-off for special occasions is fine but otherwise it's always susceptible to political influence - even if it's just political appointees. And the enormous salaries their CEs receive.

    I switched from Save The Children after thirty years to one where the CE is paid less than the PM. They kept ringing me to ask why and when I explained, they said it was necessary to recruit the best. My reply ... "So you can take money away from other charities doing the same work who don't pay their CEs so much. No thanks."

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Mark, word of last year, when I first coined it :p
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. CD13, I concur. If a charity cannot survive without the state, then it's part of the public sector.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Is he also in favour of children's shows with characters that are into bondage?

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The SNP apparently have lots of cash to splash on lawyers...

    @JournoStephen: SNP planning legal challenge to #EVEL. https://t.co/CLLefFt79S
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492


    Is he also in favour of children's shows with characters that are into bondage?

    No idea, but the libs are going to be off the scene for years if they want LGBT relationships introduced to infants. Bonkers.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited July 2015
    Scott_P said:

    The SNP apparently have lots of cash to splash on lawyers...

    @JournoStephen: SNP planning legal challenge to #EVEL. https://t.co/CLLefFt79S

    I look forward to explanations about how this would create two classes of MP, and how what we have now is not that already. Someone on here tried at length to make that distinction to me, and either I was too stupid, or the explanation not convincing, or both (but I feel confident on this one it just wasn't convincing)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    So it should be absolutely inconceivable that a children's character is gay?

    Because that's all Lamb said: that it was not "out of the question".

    Which sounds more like a politician not taking a view at all, rather than going on a crusade for a gay Peppa Pig.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417


    Is he also in favour of children's shows with characters that are into bondage?

    Mark Oaten could be bought back for a one off Jackanory special.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    EPG said:

    Iron laws of PB politics
    If PB Tories are amused by your candidate, he/she is bad. (Corbyn?)
    If PB Tories are apoplectic about your candidate, he/she is good. (Farron?)
    If PB Tories are sympathetic to your candidate, it doesn't matter because they won't tactically vote anyway.

    Is that like the "PB tories are always wrong" law which seems sooooo out of touch after the 2015 GE Result.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Scott_P said:

    The SNP apparently have lots of cash to splash on lawyers...

    @JournoStephen: SNP planning legal challenge to #EVEL. https://t.co/CLLefFt79S

    Ironically the SNP's main financial backers are the couple who won the Euromillions jackpot - everything seems to keep coming back to the Euro at the moment !!
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    So it should be absolutely inconceivable that a children's character is gay?

    Because that's all Lamb said: that it was not "out of the question".

    Which sounds more like a politician not taking a view at all, rather than going on a crusade for a gay Peppa Pig.
    "Children" aren't gay, straight, bi, nothing, they have no concept of sexuality. Introducing various forms of relationship to infants is lunacy.


  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    rcs1000 said:

    So it should be absolutely inconceivable that a children's character is gay?

    Because that's all Lamb said: that it was not "out of the question".

    Which sounds more like a politician not taking a view at all, rather than going on a crusade for a gay Peppa Pig.
    "Children" aren't gay, straight, bi, nothing, they have no concept of sexuality. Introducing various forms of relationship to infants is lunacy.


    There's a mum and a dad in Peppa Pig, no?

    Is that "introducing a relationship"?

    How would it differ if one of his friends had two dads?
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    rcs1000 said:

    So it should be absolutely inconceivable that a children's character is gay?

    Because that's all Lamb said: that it was not "out of the question".

    Which sounds more like a politician not taking a view at all, rather than going on a crusade for a gay Peppa Pig.
    "Children" aren't gay, straight, bi, nothing, they have no concept of sexuality. Introducing various forms of relationship to infants is lunacy.


    There's a mum and a dad in Peppa Pig, no?

    Is that "introducing a relationship"?

    How would it differ if one of his friends had two dads?
    I refer to my original post about the libs being in the wilderness for years.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966

    Financier said:
    She was doing all right until the last sentence: "Just as Labour championed the white heat of technology in the 1960s, so today we need to champion the white flashing constellations of the networked world."

    How on earth did that groan-making phrase get past whoever she asked to check her speech?

    In any case it's an odd reference to make. The Wilson 'white heat of technology' guff was an unmitigated disaster, it simply involved pouring taxpayers' money down the drain.
    Whenever I see a white flashing constellation, I think "respect..."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    How the hell has Labour allowed itself to be taken over by vacuous twerps?
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited July 2015
    Scott_P said:

    The SNP apparently have lots of cash to splash on lawyers...

    @JournoStephen: SNP planning legal challenge to #EVEL. https://t.co/CLLefFt79S

    The way the House of Commons regulates its internal procedures is prima facie covered by article IX of the Bill of Rights and is beyond legal challenge. It is trite law that if a Bill is passed by a majority in both Houses and has received the Royal Assent, it is an Act of Parliament whether or not it was passed in accordance with the standing orders or procured by fraud (Edinburgh & Dalkeith Railway v Wauchope (1842) 8 ER 279 (HL); Pickin v British Railways Board [1974] AC 765 (HL)). Since the proposed standing orders do not propose to change the requirement for majority approval, they ought to be immune from legal challenge in both England and Scotland.

    The one respect in which litigation has a realistic prospect of success is in respect of the proposed changes to approvals of motions under Acts of Parliament. An Act of Parliament can only be amended by a subsequent Act. It cannot be be amended by either House of Parliament. Parliament has made literally thousands of statutory powers dependent on approval, or subject to disapproval by a resolution of the House of Commons. Parliament passed such legislation on the assumption that a resolution meant the approval of a majority, not a super-majority of the members of the House of Commons. When, exceptionally, it intends the latter, it says so explicitly (e.g. Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, s. 2(1)(b)). Since proposed new Standing Orders 83Q-R envisage that there would be no resolution despite a majority of MPs voting for a motion, it is arguable that they represent an attempt to amend the enabling legislation, which the courts would have the power to restrain and declare void.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    Is he also in favour of children's shows with characters that are into bondage?
    No idea, but the libs are going to be off the scene for years if they want LGBT relationships introduced to infants. Bonkers.
    Is this the sort of nonsense that you Tories were spreading when you were phoning swing voters and smearing defending Lib Dem MPs, American-style?

    I think Mr Cameron ought to take greater care with his party.
This discussion has been closed.