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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    Scott_P said:

    @lindayueh: Important how affects #ECB #ELA MT @Reuters BREAKING: Merkel told lawmakers Germany cannot consult on a new proposal before Greek referendum

    Maybe the Greeks are not the only ones to study game theory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    New Rasmussen poll finds 49% of US voters back the Supreme Court's decision to allow gay marriage across all 50 states, 45% opposed, 6% undecided.
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/june_2015/young_voters_are_far_bigger_fans_of_gay_marriage_ruling
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @lindayueh: Important how affects #ECB #ELA MT @Reuters BREAKING: Merkel told lawmakers Germany cannot consult on a new proposal before Greek referendum

    Maybe the Greeks are not the only ones to study game theory.
    Beware of Greeks bearing proposals

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: "The ONS figures showed household disposable income grew by 4.5% year-on-year, the fastest annual pace since the second quarter of 2001".

    This post sponsored by NewsSense™
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,157
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: "The ONS figures showed household disposable income grew by 4.5% year-on-year, the fastest annual pace since the second quarter of 2001".

    This post sponsored by NewsSense™

    Tory Propaganda™

    :)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,243
    I've got a ticket for the Newcastle hustings. Hurray!

    Now, do I ask my question about the difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SkyNewsBreak: Sky Sources: IMF board was presented with a paper showing the need for even bigger restructuring of #Greece's debt than previously thought
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    do I ask my question about the difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism?

    One of them are a bunch of SPLITTERS !
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984

    I've got a ticket for the Newcastle hustings. Hurray!

    Now, do I ask my question about the difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism?

    No, you ask them which electoral system do they prefer, AV or FPTP
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Eagles, surely "Was Hannibal a more capable general than Caesar?"
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited June 2015
    HYUFD said:

    For Mortimer (who last night asked when I would first post something negative on Burnham) here it is. He has just announced he would end charitable status for private schools, something I disagree with as that status funds scholarships and bursaries for those who cannot afford the fees. However Yougov had 56% of voters backing ending private schools charitable status, 22% opposing so it probably won't do him any harm electorally, as ending assisted places did not harm Blair (something I also opposed)
    Mr Burnham also pledged, if he were to become prime minister, a guaranteed university place for young people apprenticeship at the end of their schooling career.
    https://www.politicshome.com/education/articles/story/andy-burnham-i-would-end-private-schools-charitable-status
    http://www.ucu.org.uk/index.cfm?articleid=4195#2100

    Burnham is a fool. That sort of politics is why Labour is left with a talentless and incompetent front bench, notwithstanding the fact that Labour will suffer from the lost of seats at 2015 GE and lack of talent going forwards (lets no also forget how Brown squashed anyone decent who might challenge him).Everything Labour seems to touch is regressive.

    Fortunately there is no chance of a Labour Govt anytime soon.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    "Angela Merkel has told lawmakers in Germany that her government can’t consider any new proposal from Greece until Sunday’s referendum has taken place."

    Anyone know the reasoning behind this statement by the German Chancellor? - Is it matter of time, or constitutional constraints that prevent it?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @afneil: Chancellor Merkel says Germany refuses to consider a third bailout package proposed by Athens before Sunday's referendum in Greece.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    "Angela Merkel has told lawmakers in Germany that her government can’t consider any new proposal from Greece until Sunday’s referendum has taken place."

    Anyone know the reasoning behind this statement by the German Chancellor? - Is it matter of time, or constitutional constraints that prevent it?

    I suspect the reasoning is it's German money the Greeks want to spend, and she is having none of it unless the Greek people "vote the right way" and tell Syriza where to stick it
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    "Angela Merkel has told lawmakers in Germany that her government can’t consider any new proposal from Greece until Sunday’s referendum has taken place."

    Anyone know the reasoning behind this statement by the German Chancellor? - Is it matter of time, or constitutional constraints that prevent it?

    Greece needs to attone.

    "Shame. Shame. Shame." As was once said.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited June 2015
    Scott_P said:

    "Angela Merkel has told lawmakers in Germany that her government can’t consider any new proposal from Greece until Sunday’s referendum has taken place."

    Anyone know the reasoning behind this statement by the German Chancellor? - Is it matter of time, or constitutional constraints that prevent it?

    I suspect the reasoning is it's German money the Greeks want to spend, and she is having none of it unless the Greek people "vote the right way" and tell Syriza where to stick it
    How prosaic. btw, Just read the Greek PM’s residence is called, Maximos Mansion. Groovy..!
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited June 2015
    Scott_P said:

    "Angela Merkel has told lawmakers in Germany that her government can’t consider any new proposal from Greece until Sunday’s referendum has taken place."

    Anyone know the reasoning behind this statement by the German Chancellor? - Is it matter of time, or constitutional constraints that prevent it?

    I suspect the reasoning is it's German money the Greeks want to spend, and she is having none of it unless the Greek people "vote the right way" and tell Syriza where to stick it
    I suspect the Germans are encouraged by a lack of market meltdown (fairly sharp losses on stock markets but not meltdown by a mile and Club Med bond yields not heading into the stratosphere), figure the firewall's are holding, and going to hold well enough, so may as well nail Syriza to the floor whilst they can, either by the Greeks voting yes to the Euro Group's deal on offer (is it still on offer?) and hoping Tsipras has to fall on his sword and Samaras replaces him, post an election, and signs up pronto, or the Greeks vote no and the Germans pull the plug on Greek Euro membership (defacto), and they're effectively rid of Syriza anyway. Either way the German cabinet can then all disappear off on holiday (but probably not to Greece), whilst they suddenly get enthusiastic about nice Mr Draghi printing some Euros (Weimar, what's that?) to make up for the Greek losses they've suffered on paper.

    Or is that too cynical?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @lindayueh: Important how affects #ECB #ELA MT @Reuters BREAKING: Merkel told lawmakers Germany cannot consult on a new proposal before Greek referendum

    Maybe the Greeks are not the only ones to study game theory.
    Quite.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    welshowl said:

    However, how London has "stifled" Wales is beyond me. I doubt Wales has been a net contributor to UK coffers since at least the mid 70's and that was itself based on paying people wages in industries such as coal and steel that just were not competitive in a real and unsubsidised world. Now there's many a point about how that was all transitioned circa 1975 - 2015 and beyond, and maybe more could've been done other than creating the WDA and bringing in Sony etc, but I simply refuse to believe from my own life that Wales would've been anything other than drastically worse off without being part of a union with the rest of the UK in general and England in particular.

    But you have a perfect example of a nearby European Country, small by comparison with it's neighbours which was heavily reliant on heavy industry but because it was able to use control over its own government was not only able to diversify into new, highly valuable industries but has actually retained a Steel Industry which is it's largest employer.

    It's called Luxembourg and when you compare how Luxembourg has done compared to ANY former industrial heartland in Western Europe, it is clear that self-determination creates far better results than being reduced to a region and neglected.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @nigel4england

    'Absolutely zero chance of Grexit, the EU cannot allow it to happen.'

    Spot on,it will not be allowed to happen.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited June 2015
    There's an undeniable genius in Dair's capacity to nose out random factlets which ostensibly support his arguments, whilst ignoring mega realities which demolish them. The Luxembourg=Wales comparison is a classic.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    "Angela Merkel has told lawmakers in Germany that her government can’t consider any new proposal from Greece until Sunday’s referendum has taken place."

    Anyone know the reasoning behind this statement by the German Chancellor? - Is it matter of time, or constitutional constraints that prevent it?

    By next week the Greeks will have run out of money and probably be sitting on a yes vote from the referendum, and desperate to do a deal. In fact, the former may influence the latter.

    So if Merkel sits tight for a week she gets a much better deal from Greece for the German taxpayer and saves their membership of the euro at the same time.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    HYUFD said:

    For Mortimer (who last night asked when I would first post something negative on Burnham) here it is. He has just announced he would end charitable status for private schools, something I disagree with as that status funds scholarships and bursaries for those who cannot afford the fees. However Yougov had 56% of voters backing ending private schools charitable status, 22% opposing so it probably won't do him any harm electorally, as ending assisted places did not harm Blair (something I also opposed)
    Mr Burnham also pledged, if he were to become prime minister, a guaranteed university place for young people apprenticeship at the end of their schooling career.
    https://www.politicshome.com/education/articles/story/andy-burnham-i-would-end-private-schools-charitable-status
    http://www.ucu.org.uk/index.cfm?articleid=4195#2100

    What a repulsive politics of envy proposal. Confirms that AB is pure spad without anything decent to talk about. Awful candidate.

    In case you can't tell, I feel pretty strongly about this. Stupid because: it would put a lot of smaller private schools out of business or force them to put up fees, either of which puts more pressure on an already stretched state sector. Stupid electorally because: the people who oppose it are more certain to vote, and would be certain to vote against a nasty party proposing this....

    If I were in Kendall's campaign, I would suggest she proposes to offer tax deductions for school fees.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    "Angela Merkel has told lawmakers in Germany that her government can’t consider any new proposal from Greece until Sunday’s referendum has taken place."

    Anyone know the reasoning behind this statement by the German Chancellor? - Is it matter of time, or constitutional constraints that prevent it?

    By next week the Greeks will have run out of money and probably be sitting on a yes vote from the referendum, and desperate to do a deal. In fact, the former may influence the latter.

    So if Merkel sits tight for a week she gets a much better deal from Greece for the German taxpayer and saves their membership of the euro at the same time.
    You can get odds against the Greeks voting "Yes"...

    I think they'll vote "No" personally, but it won't mean Greece out the Euro, just another round of fudge and can kicking...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Mortimer, indeed. Assisted Places at my school helped those who had the brainpower but not the cash to get access to a good education. Abolishing charitable status will only decrease the proportion of poorer people able to send their children to such schools (I imagine schools will still have a few bursaries/scholarships, but there'll only be a few each year).

    Mr. Royale, indeed, but it's also possible the Greeks will take the opportunity to tell Mutti to go forth and multiply.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Pulpstar said:

    "Angela Merkel has told lawmakers in Germany that her government can’t consider any new proposal from Greece until Sunday’s referendum has taken place."

    Anyone know the reasoning behind this statement by the German Chancellor? - Is it matter of time, or constitutional constraints that prevent it?

    By next week the Greeks will have run out of money and probably be sitting on a yes vote from the referendum, and desperate to do a deal. In fact, the former may influence the latter.

    So if Merkel sits tight for a week she gets a much better deal from Greece for the German taxpayer and saves their membership of the euro at the same time.
    You can get odds against the Greeks voting "Yes"...

    I think they'll vote "No" personally, but it won't mean Greece out the Euro, just another round of fudge and can kicking...
    Given the opinion polls, that looks like value.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    By next week the Greeks will have run out of money and probably be sitting on a yes vote from the referendum, and desperate to do a deal. In fact, the former may influence the latter.

    So if Merkel sits tight for a week she gets a much better deal from Greece for the German taxpayer and saves their membership of the euro at the same time.

    I imagine that the primary hope of the Eurozone leaders at the moment is that a Yes will lead to the replacement of the nutcases from Syrizia by a new government which will do a deal and can reasonably be expected to stick to it. I imagine that the actual deal will be almost exactly the one that the creditors have already put on the table.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    Dair said:

    welshowl said:

    However, how London has "stifled" Wales is beyond me. I doubt Wales has been a net contributor to UK coffers since at least the mid 70's and that was itself based on paying people wages in industries such as coal and steel that just were not competitive in a real and unsubsidised world. Now there's many a point about how that was all transitioned circa 1975 - 2015 and beyond, and maybe more could've been done other than creating the WDA and bringing in Sony etc, but I simply refuse to believe from my own life that Wales would've been anything other than drastically worse off without being part of a union with the rest of the UK in general and England in particular.

    But you have a perfect example of a nearby European Country, small by comparison with it's neighbours which was heavily reliant on heavy industry but because it was able to use control over its own government was not only able to diversify into new, highly valuable industries but has actually retained a Steel Industry which is it's largest employer.

    It's called Luxembourg and when you compare how Luxembourg has done compared to ANY former industrial heartland in Western Europe, it is clear that self-determination creates far better results than being reduced to a region and neglected.
    Luxembourg is not comparable to Wales - and I'm not sure it has a great future now that tax sheltering is becoming ever more difficult.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    For anyone interested BBC4 have a prog on grammar schools this week The Grammar School - A Secret History. I've not seen it yet so see what you think

    Thurs 21:00 repeated 02:55 Friday morning.
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    For Mortimer (who last night asked when I would first post something negative on Burnham) here it is. He has just announced he would end charitable status for private schools, something I disagree with as that status funds scholarships and bursaries for those who cannot afford the fees. However Yougov had 56% of voters backing ending private schools charitable status, 22% opposing so it probably won't do him any harm electorally, as ending assisted places did not harm Blair (something I also opposed)
    Mr Burnham also pledged, if he were to become prime minister, a guaranteed university place for young people apprenticeship at the end of their schooling career.
    https://www.politicshome.com/education/articles/story/andy-burnham-i-would-end-private-schools-charitable-status
    http://www.ucu.org.uk/index.cfm?articleid=4195#2100

    What a repulsive politics of envy proposal. Confirms that AB is pure spad without anything decent to talk about. Awful candidate.

    In case you can't tell, I feel pretty strongly about this. Stupid because: it would put a lot of smaller private schools out of business or force them to put up fees, either of which puts more pressure on an already stretched state sector. Stupid electorally because: the people who oppose it are more certain to vote, and would be certain to vote against a nasty party proposing this....

    If I were in Kendall's campaign, I would suggest she proposes to offer tax deductions for school fees.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    Mortimer/SR/MD Ideologically I agree with you (and have emailed Burnham to tell him his policy is counterproductive), but politically it is unlikely to be unpopular. Yougov had 56% of voters backing ending private schools charitable status, 22% opposing

    The Tories will also not be able to oppose it as fiercely as John Major did Blair's proposal to end assisted places as they are less supportive of grammar schools than they were then
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited June 2015
    Dair said:

    welshowl said:

    However, how London has "stifled" Wales is beyond me. I doubt Wales has been a net contributor to UK coffers since at least the mid 70's and that was itself based on paying people wages in industries such as coal and steel that just were not competitive in a real and unsubsidised world. Now there's many a point about how that was all transitioned circa 1975 - 2015 and beyond, and maybe more could've been done other than creating the WDA and bringing in Sony etc, but I simply refuse to believe from my own life that Wales would've been anything other than drastically worse off without being part of a union with the rest of the UK in general and England in particular.

    But you have a perfect example of a nearby European Country, small by comparison with it's neighbours which was heavily reliant on heavy industry but because it was able to use control over its own government was not only able to diversify into new, highly valuable industries but has actually retained a Steel Industry which is it's largest employer.

    It's called Luxembourg and when you compare how Luxembourg has done compared to ANY former industrial heartland in Western Europe, it is clear that self-determination creates far better results than being reduced to a region and neglected.
    Well let's just keep dividing down. If I had my way there'd be a Berlin Wall/fence style arrangement along the M4 with a minefield at Taff's Well to keep anyone from the Valleys out of Cardiff. We could then be a Monaco style tax haven (we've got a waterfront these days)/playground and all drive Porsche's.

    To be serious I just don't see an obvious analogy between Wales and Luxembourg, not least one is centrally positioned in the heart of a rich region of the world and naturally bilingual in the languages of its two giant neighbours and is thus in a great position to do all the usual tiny tax haven/banking stuff whilst creaming a scoop off the top for themselves.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @SimoStClare

    'Newsflash: eurozone finance ministers are going to speak in three and a half hours to discuss Greece’s request for a third bailout. - They are due to speak at 6pm BST, or 8pm Athens time.'

    So eurozone finance minsters caving in already,didn't take long.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Same at mine.

    IIRC 50% of Eton places are free or part-fee only.

    Mr. Mortimer, indeed. Assisted Places at my school helped those who had the brainpower but not the cash to get access to a good education. Abolishing charitable status will only decrease the proportion of poorer people able to send their children to such schools (I imagine schools will still have a few bursaries/scholarships, but there'll only be a few each year).

    Mr. Royale, indeed, but it's also possible the Greeks will take the opportunity to tell Mutti to go forth and multiply.

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer/SR/MD Ideologically I agree with you (and have emailed Burnham to tell him his policy is counterproductive), but politically it is unlikely to be unpopular Yougov had 56% of voters backing ending private schools charitable status, 22% opposing

    The Tories will also not be able to oppose it as fiercely as John Major did Blair's proposal to end assisted places as they are less supportive of grammar schools than they were then

    It's a swing voter marginal issue. The sort of thing that will ensure a handful of suburban seats near wealthier cities stay Tory. And increase Labour vote only in those seats where it doesn't matter. I shouldn't have to be explaining things like this on a website for political nerds.

    Aspiration is the key to power in the UK. You should ask the only Labour leader to win an election for over 40 years.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. HYUFD, aye, it'll be popular. In the same way giving everyone a million pounds would be popular. Doesn't mean it's a tremendous idea, though.

    Voters also backed Miliband's demented price freeze policy. Just before prices fell dramatically. Some of us (myself, Ammianus Marcellinus, etc) always thought it was crackers.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Oh my - that's like an eye chart on LSD.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    I assume Andy Burnham's opposition to private schools is because he thinks State schools can provide just as good an education.

    Never knew he was so in favour of Grammars.

    BAZINGA
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    john_zims said:

    So eurozone finance minsters caving in already,didn't take long.

    Will any of them dare tell Angela?

    I suspect they are just going through the motions and the Greek's will be referred to the reply in Arkell vs Pressdram......
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    By next week the Greeks will have run out of money and probably be sitting on a yes vote from the referendum, and desperate to do a deal. In fact, the former may influence the latter.

    So if Merkel sits tight for a week she gets a much better deal from Greece for the German taxpayer and saves their membership of the euro at the same time.

    I imagine that the primary hope of the Eurozone leaders at the moment is that a Yes will lead to the replacement of the nutcases from Syrizia by a new government which will do a deal and can reasonably be expected to stick to it. I imagine that the actual deal will be almost exactly the one that the creditors have already put on the table.
    Fair point.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    There's an undeniable genius in Dair's capacity to nose out random factlets which ostensibly support his arguments, whilst ignoring mega realities which demolish them. The Luxembourg=Wales comparison is a classic.

    There's no genius required.

    Western Europe is filled with reasonably successful, rich countries whose economies are not in meltdown because they are independent, whose banks do not automagically fail because they are independent, who are not denied access to international capital markets because they are independent, who are not incapable of managing their public finances because they are independent and are not unable to survive despite having their own or shared currencies.

    The fallaciousness of the Loyalist argument, the utter idiocy with which they believe that the lies, deceit and straw men can actually succeed in blinding Scotland into adherence to a failed Union are the things which defy belief.

    Every day more eyes are opened and more Scots realise the truth. The economic argument against Independence is stone dead.

  • RossMRossM Posts: 4

    DavidL said:


    These people are insane. Will the public sector wages be paid today? I doubt it.


    If the Greeks can't get a sane government in place, then I have no further suggestions.

    Madness....? This is SYRIZA!
    Once again a perfectly good thread is polluted by Plato's TV nonsense and Sunil's endless repetition of unfunny movie quotes.

    I'm sure you're both lovely people, but this is a great site. Please don't ruin it.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @HYUFD

    ' However Yougov had 56% of voters backing ending private schools charitable status, 22% opposing so it probably won't do him any harm electorally, as ending assisted places'

    So if the opinion polls swing back the other way we can expect Burnham to do a u-turn.

    Prime example of what Benn described as a weathercock, no beliefs, convictions just driven by polls and focus groups.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Dair, have you considered carving that into some limestone?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    john_zims said:

    @HYUFD

    ' However Yougov had 56% of voters backing ending private schools charitable status, 22% opposing so it probably won't do him any harm electorally, as ending assisted places'

    So if the opinion polls swing back the other way we can expect Burnham to do a u-turn.

    Prime example of what Benn described as a weathercock, no beliefs, convictions just driven by polls and focus groups.


    Vote Labour and win a microwave...

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That really is cruel, but true. And applies to Burnham in spades, as it did to EdM.
    john_zims said:

    @HYUFD

    ' However Yougov had 56% of voters backing ending private schools charitable status, 22% opposing so it probably won't do him any harm electorally, as ending assisted places'

    So if the opinion polls swing back the other way we can expect Burnham to do a u-turn.

    Prime example of what Benn described as a weathercock, no beliefs, convictions just driven by polls and focus groups.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    Mortimer However it did not work out like that in 1997 when Blair swept to power in the suburbs and marginals despite promising to abolish assisted places to private schools (he being the only Labour leader in 40 years to win power you were referring to). Ironically, despite the Tory obsession with free schools and academies, bringing back more grammar schools is more popular in the polls than free schools, academies and the charitable status of private schools
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Plato said:

    Oh my - that's like an eye chart on LSD.

    Its like a teenager who has just discovered how to change font types and sizes in a WoRd ProCeSSoR
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    By next week the Greeks will have run out of money and probably be sitting on a yes vote from the referendum, and desperate to do a deal. In fact, the former may influence the latter.

    So if Merkel sits tight for a week she gets a much better deal from Greece for the German taxpayer and saves their membership of the euro at the same time.

    I imagine that the primary hope of the Eurozone leaders at the moment is that a Yes will lead to the replacement of the nutcases from Syrizia by a new government which will do a deal and can reasonably be expected to stick to it. I imagine that the actual deal will be almost exactly the one that the creditors have already put on the table.
    Fair point.
    it is indeed a fair point and the fairest point is ''do a deal and can reasonably be expected to stick to it.''.
    Some sort of deal may be agreed with the present nutcase Greek govt... but the likelihood of them sticking to it is precisely zero.
    If Greece exits the Euro it will revert to being even more corrupt than it is now and the whole point of the Euro and the EU at the time and as far as many Greeks were concerned was to bring in political and economic realism. If that happens the failure belongs to the Greeks and no one else.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That looks like a fontastic representation of Robert Peston's enunciation.

    Plato said:

    Oh my - that's like an eye chart on LSD.

    Its like a teenager who has just discovered how to change font types and sizes in a WoRd ProCeSSoR
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    I've got a ticket for the Newcastle hustings. Hurray!

    Now, do I ask my question about the difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism?

    Not a bad idea. Or you could channel Colbert and ask 'tony Blair: great pm or greatest pm?"

    I disliked him before it was cool though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    Don't forget in his early years Blair was not as 'centrist' as some Tories like to portray, he fought the 1997 election on a windfall tax on privatised utilities, ending assisted places and increasing the minimum wage and ending the opt-out from the Social Chapter amongst other policies more popular with the Labour faithful.

    John Zims Burnham has some similarities to early years Blair
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Pulpstar Sadly, not, his speech seems to be 'I was a comprehensive lad and if it was good enough for me...'
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer However it did not work out like that in 1997 when Blair swept to power in the suburbs and marginals despite promising to abolish assisted places to private schools (he being the only Labour leader in 40 years to win power you were referring to). Ironically, despite the Tory obsession with free schools and academies, bringing back more grammar schools is more popular in the polls than free schools, academies and the charitable status of private schools

    Blair swept to power despite a lot of kooky policies, because he believed in aspiration. AB does not. Party comes first, remember....

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Welsh Regional Policy successes over the years.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCEamUarOSI

    Subsidies galore, infrastructure improvements but for what gain?

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Is he the unfunny rent-a-Brit that used to be on the Daily Show?

    If so, I couldn't stand him either.
    kle4 said:

    I've got a ticket for the Newcastle hustings. Hurray!

    Now, do I ask my question about the difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism?

    Not a bad idea. Or you could channel Colbert and ask 'tony Blair: great pm or greatest pm?"

    I disliked him before it was cool though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    MD/MH Don't underestimate the popularity of demented policies, as Syriza has proved
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dair said:

    There's an undeniable genius in Dair's capacity to nose out random factlets which ostensibly support his arguments, whilst ignoring mega realities which demolish them. The Luxembourg=Wales comparison is a classic.

    Every day more eyes are opened and more Scots realise the truth.
    Well, Swinney did just publish the oil figures.......eventually....two hours after the deadline for emergency questions passed.....funny that......
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    RE GE 2015

    I have watched the BBC coverage... C- ITV coverage B- is there anything on the www relating to Sky's coverage SVP ???
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    RossM said:

    DavidL said:


    These people are insane. Will the public sector wages be paid today? I doubt it.


    If the Greeks can't get a sane government in place, then I have no further suggestions.

    Madness....? This is SYRIZA!
    Once again a perfectly good thread is polluted by Plato's TV nonsense and Sunil's endless repetition of unfunny movie quotes.

    I'm sure you're both lovely people, but this is a great site. Please don't ruin it.
    I guess you're new here. We have a glorious tradition of keeping about six balls in the air on any one thread. And at any moment, someone can start a seventh, usually on the Punic Wars. We seem to have coped with this format for years and years. Some may even think it gets us through the dispiriting thought of trying to find a winner amongst Labour's leadership hopefuls....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Presumably when a deal is done everyone will pretend this one is final, right?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,307

    Plato said:

    Oh my - that's like an eye chart on LSD.

    Its like a teenager who has just discovered how to change font types and sizes in a WoRd ProCeSSoR
    The first draft was letters cut out of a magazine like a ransom note. "Give us the money or the economy gets it."
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited June 2015
    Dair said:

    Western Europe is filled with reasonably successful, rich countries whose economies are not in meltdown because they are independent, whose banks do not automagically fail because they are independent, who are not denied access to international capital markets because they are independent, who are not incapable of managing their public finances because they are independent and are not unable to survive despite having their own or shared currencies.

    This is true. However, as others have pointed out, there are a few rather significant differences between Luxembourg and Wales.

    Having said that, I do actually agree with part of your main point, at least as regards Scotland (Wales is a different kettle of Laverbread). Of course you are speaking unmitigated garbage in your claim that Scotland is not being subsidised by England, but I believe it is true that an independent Scotland could be really quite prosperous, after a suitable and rather painful period of Thatcherite readjustment. To do that, it would need to wean itself off its benefit-culture dependency, sort out its dire school system, and rediscover the old Scottish virtues of sound money, hard work, and entrepreneurship - virtues which meant that Scots played such an important part in the British Empire. Even now, Scotland retains a very good university system, an excellent legal system, and quite a diverse economy (it's not all oil and welfare). They'd have to find a coherent answer to the currency question, of course, but that's not impossible provided they are realistic and self-reliant.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Miss Plato, that's Jon Oliver, I think you mean.

    Mr. HYUFD, a fair point, but you shouldn't over-estimate them either (Miliband's free owls policy didn't persuade anyone).
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I heard Nicky Morgan on Sky earlier when challenged on whether the new *coasting schools* drive was an attack on the comprehensive system say "Oh no" followed by a load of weasling.

    I just wish once she'd say Yes Actually. They're frequently crap and we need to sort them out just like any other crap school.
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar Sadly, not, his speech seems to be 'I was a comprehensive lad and if it was good enough for me...'

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Root, not sure if there full programme's available but there's about an hour and a half of Sky News' coverage of the election results on Youtube.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    RossM said:

    DavidL said:


    These people are insane. Will the public sector wages be paid today? I doubt it.


    If the Greeks can't get a sane government in place, then I have no further suggestions.

    Madness....? This is SYRIZA!
    Once again a perfectly good thread is polluted by Plato's TV nonsense and Sunil's endless repetition of unfunny movie quotes.

    I'm sure you're both lovely people, but this is a great site. Please don't ruin it.
    I guess you're new here. We have a glorious tradition of keeping about six balls in the air on any one thread. And at any moment, someone can start a seventh, usually on the Punic Wars. We seem to have coped with this format for years and years. Some may even think it gets us through the dispiriting thought of trying to find a winner amongst Labour's leadership hopefuls....
    I find it adds to the unique flavour. That's why I avoid Scottish focused threads more often than not - a lot more focused and angry.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    :smiley:

    Plato said:

    Oh my - that's like an eye chart on LSD.

    Its like a teenager who has just discovered how to change font types and sizes in a WoRd ProCeSSoR
    The first draft was letters cut out of a magazine like a ransom note. "Give us the money or the economy gets it."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Mortimer Well Burnham has said “At the heart of our problem is for about a decade or more we’ve looked like a party that didn’t want to help people to get on in life.”

    “It probably started with the 10p tax scrapping all those years ago. And that perception of not wanting people to get on is pretty toxic for any political party, so that is the change that I am going to make. The Labour party I lead will be all about helping people get on in life.”
    https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/labour-seen-anti-aspiration-ten-years-burnham#sthash.vCQPbtp4.dpuf
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Mr. Root, not sure if there full programme's available but there's about an hour and a half of Sky News' coverage of the election results on Youtube.

    TY mr MD.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    Plato said:

    That looks like a fontastic representation of Robert Peston's enunciation.

    Plato said:

    Oh my - that's like an eye chart on LSD.

    Its like a teenager who has just discovered how to change font types and sizes in a WoRd ProCeSSoR
    Peston comes across to me as permanantly distracted by an inner monologue: whether to engage with someone who he clearly feels is too stupid to understand any answer he might give - or just save himself the trouble and tell them to piss off....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The bit the Nats always forget:

    any voter south of the Border, recalling that Scotland produced the RBS and HBoS bankers that blew up the UK economy, viewing the chaos descending on Greece and the prospect of €198bn of European taxpayers’ money in loans to Greece being repaid going up in smoke, would crucify any politician who proposed a currency union with a Scotland with a balance sheet as shot full of holes as it is now.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/peter-jones-greek-tragedy-is-a-warning-to-us-all-1-3816282
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    MD True but voters tend to make decisions in the round and on the quality of the leaders, not just on one policy
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    calum said:
    I'm not sure Nicola has been paying attention:

    a sensible compromise should be found
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Plato Agreed, if only the Tories would allow a few more grammar schools too
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited June 2015
    Some interesting charts from YouGov Eurotracker poll http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/eu_referendum/article-3144327/French-German-Danes-Swedes-Cameron-s-plan-curb-benefits-EU-migrants-according-international-poll.html
    David Cameron's plan to curb benefits for migrants are backed by most people in Europe's most influential countries, a new poll reveals.

    Voters in Germany, France, Denmark and Sweden want the power to kick-out jobless migrants after six months and stop child benefit being sent to other countries.

    There is also strong support for Mr Cameron's key demand for EU migrants to have to wait for four years before they can claim in-work benefits in a new country.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @afneil: German Social Democrats at one with Merkel: Her coalition partner Sigmar Gabriel says Athens can only hold talks if it calls off referendum
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Blimey, Bouchard out already. Think she reached the final last year.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Mr. Root, not sure if there full programme's available but there's about an hour and a half of Sky News' coverage of the election results on Youtube.

    TY mr MD.
    MD you couldn't possibly post the link. I cant see it

    ta
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited June 2015
    Blimey, today’s ‘fontastic’ begging letter simply explains that it is seeking more funding to cover debt that expires between 2015 and 2017. And that, according to this letter is over €29bn. - No wonder Merkel said, nehmen Sie einen laufenden Sprung*.


    (*) Roughly translated: take a running jump..
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Anyone thinking of updating their iPhone to IOS 8.4, don't.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Root, bitte sehr.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Scott_P said:

    Anyone thinking of updating their iPhone to IOS 8.4, don't.

    What happened?
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    calum said:
    I'm not sure Nicola has been paying attention:

    a sensible compromise should be found
    Indeed, that's what we all thought would happen on the Sunday the US let Lehmans go to the wall and the rest is history.

    This time I think the authorities have a better idea of the systemic risks of letting Greece going bust, but as ever who knows what derivative positions the hedge funds and banks have taken.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    HYUFD said:

    Don't forget in his early years Blair was not as 'centrist' as some Tories like to portray, he fought the 1997 election on a windfall tax on privatised utilities, ending assisted places and increasing the minimum wage and ending the opt-out from the Social Chapter amongst other policies more popular with the Labour faithful.

    John Zims Burnham has some similarities to early years Blair</blockquote

    Your interminable ramblings on the thesis of the great Labour landslide to be in 2020 is tedious in the extreme. But Burnham as the heir to Blair who will deliver this landslide is really a step too far. FFS move on.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Anyone thinking of updating their iPhone to IOS 8.4, don't.

    What happened?
    The whole reason for the upgrade is the change from iTunes to Apple music, and IT SUCKS
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Mr. Root, bitte sehr.

    AAArgh 1m 42 secs not 1 .5 hrs.. I still cant find it???
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Root, merde, sorry.

    This is the longest on Youtube, just over 20 minutes, though:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLH678TVTYw
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Anyone thinking of updating their iPhone to IOS 8.4, don't.

    What happened?
    The whole reason for the upgrade is the change from iTunes to Apple music, and IT SUCKS
    oh wow, they are forcing it on everyone?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    Felix I never said Burnham would win a landslide, the best he can probably hope for is a majority of about 20-40 and that would depend on everything going right for him ie Labour winning back most of those who voted for Blair in 2005 and then switched to Cameron in 2010-2015, Labour winning back some seats from the SNP in Scotland and some Tories switching to UKIP post EU ref.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,157

    Blimey, Bouchard out already. Think she reached the final last year.

    Yes, you are correct, Mr Dancer.

    And she was 12th seed this year.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Dr. Prasannan, wish I'd bet on that, I knew beforehand she's been rubbish all this year but didn't think she'd lose at this stage.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,157
    BRITISH tennis ace Murray though in straight sets against Kukushkin of Kazakhstan!
This discussion has been closed.