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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Liz Kendall, virtually unknown 8 weeks ago, in 2nd place in

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited June 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Liz Kendall, virtually unknown 8 weeks ago, in 2nd place in ORB LAB leadership poll

This ORB poll for the Independent was conducted among all voters, not Labour members, Andy Burnham will be delighted with these figures, he can cite that the wider electorate perceive him as the candidate who will do the most to improve Labour’s chances at the next election, which should do his leadership ambitions no harm.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • redcliffe62redcliffe62 Posts: 342
    Good job Sturgeon wasn't an option as preferred Lab leader as she would have walked the poll. Kidding I think.....
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    What a sorry bunch, the labour voters I speak to are shaking their heads in disbelief. They get no sympathy from me, the party sold its soul 20 years ago, now it's reaping what it sowed. Still, Blair, Campbell, Mandelson and others have made plenty which was their only intention, what do they care.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    These result suggest that voters have not have accepted Yvette Cooper's denial that Labour spent too much, with the converse applying to Liz Kendall.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Kendall is the triumph of hope over experience. When you know the others are crap it is human nature to vest your hopes in the one you don't know who is going to save you.

    Unfortunately she has done or said very little to date to justify that epithet. Presumably the likes of Hopi Sen have a sound basis for their belief being on the inside but she really needs to become more than a void into which people can project their hopes and dreams.

    These are sad times for Labour and in my view they are not great times for the country either. A government without a switched on opposition will make more mistakes and correct them less quickly than a government that is being constantly tested and challenged. At the moment there is no effective opposition. This is not a happy state of affairs.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    DavidL said:

    Kendall is the triumph of hope over experience. When you know the others are crap it is human nature to vest your hopes in the one you don't know who is going to save you.

    Unfortunately she has done or said very little to date to justify that epithet. Presumably the likes of Hopi Sen have a sound basis for their belief being on the inside but she really needs to become more than a void into which people can project their hopes and dreams.

    These are sad times for Labour and in my view they are not great times for the country either. A government without a switched on opposition will make more mistakes and correct them less quickly than a government that is being constantly tested and challenged. At the moment there is no effective opposition. This is not a happy state of affairs.

    Quite so.. and the SNP just want to play silly games like musical chairs rather than debate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    On that point in the BBC program about the fall of Scottish Labour one of the candidates for their leadership, Ken Macintosh, said that Labour's first target was not to win the next Scottish elections but to form an effective and meaningful opposition.

    I thought that was spot on. At the moment the SNP are not being held effectively to account for their numerous failures in health and education. No coherent alternative point of view is being put forward. I would of course be delighted if the Tories could fill that gap but I am realistic enough to know that is just not going to happen in terms of numbers. Davidson also has a number of dinosaurs in the Scottish party who slow her down somewhat.

    It also seems to me that Ken Macintosh's aspiration is one that the national leadership should also reflect on. Can they form an effective opposition to this government? It is more difficult than it seems. Macintosh made it clear that this would not be opposition for opposition's sake but would require a coherent alternative approach based in the real world and part of an overall strategy. Something Labour completely failed to produce under Ed. Something that gives the people of this country a real choice and keeps the government on its mettle.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Well, I'm not surprised: there are many more right-wing than left-wing voters, especially in England, so why shouldn't the most right-wing candidate poll well amongst them?

    Nevertheless, being Tory-lite - or even UKIP-lite - won't save Labour. Pity Corbyn has spent his life leaping before he looked. What the contest lacks is an old-fashioned Tribunite - and that lack in itself speaks volumes.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Kieran makes some good points here re Kendall https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/613572197534289920
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Well, I'm not surprised: there are many more right-wing than left-wing voters, especially in England, so why shouldn't the most right-wing candidate poll well amongst them?

    Nevertheless, being Tory-lite - or even UKIP-lite - won't save Labour. Pity Corbyn has spent his life leaping before he looked. What the contest lacks is an old-fashioned Tribunite - and that lack in itself speaks volumes.

    When you say the contest lacks a tribunite may I ask why? There is little desire for that approach in the Labour Party, perhaps you just want a clear alternative to the blandness of the others, Corbyn apart.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    At the moment there is no effective opposition. This is not a happy state of affairs.

    Angus Robertson's not doing a bad job!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    DavidL said:

    Kendall is the triumph of hope over experience. When you know the others are crap it is human nature to vest your hopes in the one you don't know who is going to save you.

    Unfortunately she has done or said very little to date to justify that epithet. Presumably the likes of Hopi Sen have a sound basis for their belief being on the inside but she really needs to become more than a void into which people can project their hopes and dreams.

    These are sad times for Labour and in my view they are not great times for the country either. A government without a switched on opposition will make more mistakes and correct them less quickly than a government that is being constantly tested and challenged. At the moment there is no effective opposition. This is not a happy state of affairs.

    It's no sadder or more terrible than any other time immediately after an opposition party has suffered a bad defeat and is looking to choose a new leader. I cannot think of a recent election in which there was an effective opposition almost immediately after the result. The Tories have a clear run, just as the Coalition did, and Blair did before that, and Major did before that, and Thatcher did before that. Defeated parties retreat into themselves. The key thing is how Labour emerges once it does have a leader. The Tories could help here. The more Tory they become, the more galvanising that will be.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Plato said:

    Kieran makes some good points here re Kendall https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/613572197534289920

    It is a good piece. His observation that Labour need to focus on broadening their appeal rather than narrow ideological purity is spot on.

    The fact that so many on the left can make these attacks, however, suggests to me that they are as guilty of projection in respect of Kendall as her own supporters.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    DavidL said:

    On that point in the BBC program about the fall of Scottish Labour one of the candidates for their leadership, Ken Macintosh, said that Labour's first target was not to win the next Scottish elections but to form an effective and meaningful opposition.

    I thought that was spot on. At the moment the SNP are not being held effectively to account for their numerous failures in health and education. No coherent alternative point of view is being put forward. I would of course be delighted if the Tories could fill that gap but I am realistic enough to know that is just not going to happen in terms of numbers. Davidson also has a number of dinosaurs in the Scottish party who slow her down somewhat.

    It also seems to me that Ken Macintosh's aspiration is one that the national leadership should also reflect on. Can they form an effective opposition to this government? It is more difficult than it seems. Macintosh made it clear that this would not be opposition for opposition's sake but would require a coherent alternative approach based in the real world and part of an overall strategy. Something Labour completely failed to produce under Ed. Something that gives the people of this country a real choice and keeps the government on its mettle.

    For as long as the SNP can blame Westminster it will never be held accountable in Scotland. That's why the reforms in the Scotland Act are so important and have to be so carefully thought through.

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Kendall is the only one of the four offering any new ideas or even a spark of vision. The other three are just retreading old and failed policies and are not using their brains or even showing any evidence of having any.

    The next debate could be interesting - anyone know when it is?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    DavidL said:

    Kendall is the triumph of hope over experience. When you know the others are crap it is human nature to vest your hopes in the one you don't know who is going to save you.

    Unfortunately she has done or said very little to date to justify that epithet. Presumably the likes of Hopi Sen have a sound basis for their belief being on the inside but she really needs to become more than a void into which people can project their hopes and dreams.

    These are sad times for Labour and in my view they are not great times for the country either. A government without a switched on opposition will make more mistakes and correct them less quickly than a government that is being constantly tested and challenged. At the moment there is no effective opposition. This is not a happy state of affairs.

    It's no sadder or more terrible than any other time immediately after an opposition party has suffered a bad defeat and is looking to choose a new leader. I cannot think of a recent election in which there was an effective opposition almost immediately after the result. The Tories have a clear run, just as the Coalition did, and Blair did before that, and Major did before that, and Thatcher did before that. Defeated parties retreat into themselves. The key thing is how Labour emerges once it does have a leader. The Tories could help here. The more Tory they become, the more galvanising that will be.

    But the declared intention of this government is to do the opposite SO and govern as one nation Conservatives. If they manage to do that (and it will be very difficult whilst introducing welfare cuts of the present size) they will leave Labour nowhere to go in the same way that Blair did to the Tories in the noughties.

    I accept every opposition has to take time to regroup but the successful ones such as Blair/Brown and Cameron/Osborne have looked like a potential government very quickly. This leadership campaign does not have that vibe to be honest.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    dr_spyn said:
    Golly, is that the fourth time that piece has been linked to? Such a shame the term for a group of animals indulging in collective behaviour is forbidden. I guess I'll just have to stick with Daily Mail readers.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    DavidL said:

    On that point in the BBC program about the fall of Scottish Labour one of the candidates for their leadership, Ken Macintosh, said that Labour's first target was not to win the next Scottish elections but to form an effective and meaningful opposition.

    I thought that was spot on. At the moment the SNP are not being held effectively to account for their numerous failures in health and education. No coherent alternative point of view is being put forward. I would of course be delighted if the Tories could fill that gap but I am realistic enough to know that is just not going to happen in terms of numbers. Davidson also has a number of dinosaurs in the Scottish party who slow her down somewhat.

    It also seems to me that Ken Macintosh's aspiration is one that the national leadership should also reflect on. Can they form an effective opposition to this government? It is more difficult than it seems. Macintosh made it clear that this would not be opposition for opposition's sake but would require a coherent alternative approach based in the real world and part of an overall strategy. Something Labour completely failed to produce under Ed. Something that gives the people of this country a real choice and keeps the government on its mettle.

    For as long as the SNP can blame Westminster it will never be held accountable in Scotland. That's why the reforms in the Scotland Act are so important and have to be so carefully thought through.

    I agree it is essential that the Scottish Parliament needs to be made responsible for the raising of the cash as well as handing out the sweeties if Scottish politics is ever to enter the realms of reality again. But the current failures of the Scottish education system and health service are issues of delivery and should be being highlighted now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    This poll suggests both Burnham and to a lesser extent Kendall would give Labour a boost relative to Ed Miliband and be net assets for the party, that should worry the Tories as it was Cameron's polling well above his party and Miliband's well below his which helped cost Labour the election. With Cameron not leading the Tories in 2020 that suggests Labour would have a chance of winning with those 2. However the Tories would be less worried by Cooper and certainly Corbyn as the poll figures suggest
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    dr_spyn said:
    Golly, is that the fourth time that piece has been linked to? Such a shame the term for a group of animals indulging in collective behaviour is forbidden. I guess I'll just have to stick with Daily Mail readers.
    I think you have made it the fifth.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    HYUFD said:

    This poll suggests both Burnham and to a lesser extent Kendall would give Labour a boost relative to Ed Miliband and be net assets for the party, that should worry the Tories as it was Cameron's polling well above his party and Miliband's well below his which helped cost Labour the election. With Cameron not leading the Tories in 2020 that suggests Labour would have a chance of winning with those 2. However the Tories would be less worried by Cooper and certainly Corbyn as the poll figures suggest

    Just do not see how Burnham would worry anyone - he is so limited in his thinking and vision as well as always looking over his shoulder at the Unions and their finance. Would he ever be bold enough to sever the link with the Unions?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Kendall is the triumph of hope over experience. When you know the others are crap it is human nature to vest your hopes in the one you don't know who is going to save you.

    Unfortunately she has done or said very little to date to justify that epithet. Presumably the likes of Hopi Sen have a sound basis for their belief being on the inside but she really needs to become more than a void into which people can project their hopes and dreams.

    These are sad times for Labour and in my view they are not great times for the country either. A government without a switched on opposition will make more mistakes and correct them less quickly than a government that is being constantly tested and challenged. At the moment there is no effective opposition. This is not a happy state of affairs.

    It's no sadder or more terrible than any other time immediately after an opposition party has suffered a bad defeat and is looking to choose a new leader. I cannot think of a recent election in which there was an effective opposition almost immediately after the result. The Tories have a clear run, just as the Coalition did, and Blair did before that, and Major did before that, and Thatcher did before that. Defeated parties retreat into themselves. The key thing is how Labour emerges once it does have a leader. The Tories could help here. The more Tory they become, the more galvanising that will be.

    But the declared intention of this government is to do the opposite SO and govern as one nation Conservatives. If they manage to do that (and it will be very difficult whilst introducing welfare cuts of the present size) they will leave Labour nowhere to go in the same way that Blair did to the Tories in the noughties.

    I accept every opposition has to take time to regroup but the successful ones such as Blair/Brown and Cameron/Osborne have looked like a potential government very quickly. This leadership campaign does not have that vibe to be honest.

    Declared intentions are one thing, outcomes are another. If the Tories succeed then it does not matter about the opposition, they will continue to win. But those cuts are going to be huge and will have a major impact on a lot of people. They were not fully explained or examined during the election, so may come as a surprise to a fair few voters. I don't think you can judge a general vibe less than two months after a GE has take place. There are plenty of events to come. I believe that unless Corbyn somehow ends up winning Labour will have their best leader since Blair. That may not be saying much, but it is a start.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    HYUFD said:

    This poll suggests both Burnham and to a lesser extent Kendall would give Labour a boost relative to Ed Miliband and be net assets for the party, that should worry the Tories as it was Cameron's polling well above his party and Miliband's well below his which helped cost Labour the election. With Cameron not leading the Tories in 2020 that suggests Labour would have a chance of winning with those 2. However the Tories would be less worried by Cooper and certainly Corbyn as the poll figures suggest

    I don't think the relative rating of the Party leaders was as important as who they appealed to (or not). Cammo won the election for his Party on the pensioner vote. Pensioners trusted him to spare them from much of austerity - Labour, in the interests of fairness, made no such promise. Next time the "turnout" gap between pensioners and younger voters will be even greater. My children (in their 30s) don't expect ever to receive State or occupational pensions.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Financier Even Blair did not sever the link with the unions, Burnham has shored up his core vote and is now moving to the centre, saying Labour overspent, there need to be some welfare cuts and the Mansion Tax was wrong etc He has most potential to appeal to Scotland and win over floating voters which is the gap the ideal leader would bridge, Kendall would do the latter too but less chance of the former
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    O/T Global dewarming?

    Met Office’s Hadley Centre, which looks at long term forecasts, said there was a 15-20 per cent chance that we could match the temperatures last seen in 1645-1715 – sometimes called the Little Ice Age - when the River Thames froze over.

    This could take place at some point within the next 40 years.

    The prediction is based on counting sun spots – dark patches on the sun – that are hot spots and signs of increased solar activity.

    The decrease in the sun’s heat is known as a ‘Maunder minimum’ after Walter Maunder - the astronomer who first noted sunspots were at their lowest during the cold period between 1645 and 1715.

    Studies by the Met Office and others have found a decrease in sun spots - suggesting the sun may be going through a cooler phase.

    The cooling effect is expected to be strongest in northern Europe, the UK and eastern parts of North America - particularly during winter. For example, for northern Europe the cooling is in the range -0.4 to -0.8 °C.

    This is because computer simulations predict a big fall in solar activity would disrupt winds and suck cold air southwards from the Arctic.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136780/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    dr_spyn said:
    Such a shame the term for a group of animals indulging in collective behaviour is forbidden.
    Cybernats?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited June 2015
    HYUFD said:

    Financier Even Blair did not sever the link with the unions, Burnham has shored up his core vote and is now moving to the centre, saying Labour overspent, there need to be some welfare cuts and the Mansion Tax was wrong etc He has most potential to appeal to Scotland and win over floating voters which is the gap the ideal leader would bridge, Kendall would do the latter too but less chance of the former

    Please explain what is Burnham's core vote and how if he moves to the centre, he will not lose them?

    Also why not sever the link with the Unions as they are in decline.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    SO Indeed, but even if the Tories finally sort the deficit by 2020 and the economy is doing OK that does not mean they will win if voters want a change and prefer the Labour leader as 1997 proved, who knows what divisions Osborne or whoever will have to deal with post EU ref
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Morning all. Interesting polling on the candidates, looks like it could be between Burnham and Kendall among the general public. Of note is that there are very few associate and Union members registered for the election than in 2010, so could be much more down to the 'full' membership who clearly voted for David Miliband last time out.

    Also a really good last thread from Tissue Price about odds compilation. Thanks.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    Financier said:

    O/T Global dewarming?

    Met Office’s Hadley Centre, which looks at long term forecasts, said there was a 15-20 per cent chance that we could match the temperatures last seen in 1645-1715 – sometimes called the Little Ice Age - when the River Thames froze over.

    This could take place at some point within the next 40 years.

    The prediction is based on counting sun spots – dark patches on the sun – that are hot spots and signs of increased solar activity.

    The decrease in the sun’s heat is known as a ‘Maunder minimum’ after Walter Maunder - the astronomer who first noted sunspots were at their lowest during the cold period between 1645 and 1715.

    Studies by the Met Office and others have found a decrease in sun spots - suggesting the sun may be going through a cooler phase.

    The cooling effect is expected to be strongest in northern Europe, the UK and eastern parts of North America - particularly during winter. For example, for northern Europe the cooling is in the range -0.4 to -0.8 °C.

    This is because computer simulations predict a big fall in solar activity would disrupt winds and suck cold air southwards from the Arctic.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136780/

    It would be good to be given a partial breathing space by pure chance.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    HYUFD said:

    SO Indeed, but even if the Tories finally sort the deficit by 2020 and the economy is doing OK that does not mean they will win if voters want a change and prefer the Labour leader as 1997 proved, who knows what divisions Osborne or whoever will have to deal with post EU ref

    Yes, the EU referendum is going to dominate the next couple of years. Cameron and the next Tory leader are going to have a big job on their hands to keep the party together, especially if the result is close one way or the other.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    dr_spyn said:
    Fantastic to see the Daily Mail continuing with the sort of coverage that has driven support for the SNP to 60%.

    Wonderful morning comedy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    I see that one Greek in Milo Yiannopolous holds little sympathy for his tax-evading countrymen.

    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/06/23/is-anyone-honestly-surprised-that-greeks-dont-pay-their-debts/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Financier Severing links with the unions and their funding and supporters and manpower on election day is not necessary, they no longer determine Labour leadership elections. The core vote is Labour voters and those tempted by the Greens or who have moved to the SNP
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Sandpit Indeed, the nightmare result for the Tories and the best for UKIP is a narrow In
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Dair SNP on 50% in regional vote though, much will depend on impact of more powers and new Labour leaders and tactical voting
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I think Burnham as leader would be a big improvement on Ed Miliband. Miliband was too nerdy and wonkish from the start, I could never see him as PM (although the polls tested my nerve....). Burnham's problem - whether true or not - is being seen as the Union's choice - if the Tories get to paint him as continuity-Miliband then Labour have a problem.

    I think Labour would be best served picking a female leader anyway. Kendall is new and interesting and Cooper has always been a classy, intelligent act. For starters it would be historic for Labour to elect a full-time female leader and a female would be harder for the Tory machine/right wing press to knock about.

    If I were a Labour supporter I'd personally go with Yvette Cooper because - for all Kendall's merits - she will struggle to win much back in Scotland.

    And therein lies Labour's starkest problem - finding a leader who can bridge the need to win back middle England voters while at the same time winning back the lefties in Scotland. Not an easy task.

    Amazing to think that only a year ago it was the Tories facing the supposed existential crisis of its right flank splitting with UKIP. So much can change in politics so quickly. Labour will be hoping thinks change as quickly for them.

    Their biggest hope by 2020 will be an unpopular, tired Tory party and the electorate's desire for a change.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Sandpit said:

    Morning all. Interesting polling on the candidates, looks like it could be between Burnham and Kendall among the general public. Of note is that there are very few associate and Union members registered for the election than in 2010, so could be much more down to the 'full' membership who clearly voted for David Miliband last time out.

    Also a really good last thread from Tissue Price about odds compilation. Thanks.

    I think the mainstream membership has moved left after five years of cuts, however. I don't think David Miliband would be as popular with the membership now had he been accepting austerity for five years.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2015
    Fenster Very good summary, though I think once voters decide they think a leader is OK it is difficult for their opponents to tar them, see Blair and 'demon eyes', anyway got to go
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    edited June 2015
    HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.

    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Fenster said:

    I think Burnham as leader would be a big improvement on Ed Miliband. Miliband was too nerdy and wonkish from the start, I could never see him as PM (although the polls tested my nerve....). Burnham's problem - whether true or not - is being seen as the Union's choice - if the Tories get to paint him as continuity-Miliband then Labour have a problem.

    I think Labour would be best served picking a female leader anyway. Kendall is new and interesting and Cooper has always been a classy, intelligent act. For starters it would be historic for Labour to elect a full-time female leader and a female would be harder for the Tory machine/right wing press to knock about.

    If I were a Labour supporter I'd personally go with Yvette Cooper because - for all Kendall's merits - she will struggle to win much back in Scotland.

    And therein lies Labour's starkest problem - finding a leader who can bridge the need to win back middle England voters while at the same time winning back the lefties in Scotland. Not an easy task.

    Amazing to think that only a year ago it was the Tories facing the supposed existential crisis of its right flank splitting with UKIP. So much can change in politics so quickly. Labour will be hoping thinks change as quickly for them.

    Their biggest hope by 2020 will be an unpopular, tired Tory party and the electorate's desire for a change.

    My money is still mainly on Cooper, but I'm covered if Kendal wins as well. I'm sticking to the view that front runners rarely win in the end.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Fenster Cooper has never been classy or even shown much sign of being intelligent.. remember HIPS..She ploughed on with that disaster even when her own party were telling her to drop it..
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    Dair said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Fantastic to see the Daily Mail continuing with the sort of coverage that has driven support for the SNP to 60%.

    Wonderful morning comedy.
    Lol - good to see you think that SNP support is driven by the English Daily Mail rather presumably than anything intrinsically appealing about their policies.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.

    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.
    Well OKC. A much better chance than under the warmonger Blair, bonkers Brown who busted Britain and then the unelectable, weird lefty Ed Miliband..

    You should be damned grateful.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    Even five years ago, I thought Labour were very complacent, to think they had all their voters from 2010 in the bag, and they only needed one third of Lib Dems to win.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited June 2015
    How else will Sturgeon pay for a new helicopter.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569
    Fenster said:

    I think Burnham as leader would be a big improvement on Ed Miliband. Miliband was too nerdy and wonkish from the start, I could never see him as PM (although the polls tested my nerve....). Burnham's problem - whether true or not - is being seen as the Union's choice - if the Tories get to paint him as continuity-Miliband then Labour have a problem.

    I think Labour would be best served picking a female leader anyway. Kendall is new and interesting and Cooper has always been a classy, intelligent act. For starters it would be historic for Labour to elect a full-time female leader and a female would be harder for the Tory machine/right wing press to knock about.

    If I were a Labour supporter I'd personally go with Yvette Cooper because - for all Kendall's merits - she will struggle to win much back in Scotland.

    And therein lies Labour's starkest problem - finding a leader who can bridge the need to win back middle England voters while at the same time winning back the lefties in Scotland. Not an easy task.

    That's a fair analysis. I think the English vote probably has to get priority, though - Scotland will remain very difficult until the SNP screw up, as all parties eventually do, and when push comes to shove the Scottish MPs aren't going to keep the Tories in office.
    JEO said:



    I think the mainstream membership has moved left after five years of cuts, however. I don't think David Miliband would be as popular with the membership now had he been accepting austerity for five years.

    A bit surprised by that. My impression is that the membership has moved towards the centre, mainly because they're bored with constantly losing - cf. in different ways Danny565, Southam and Sandy Rentool here. The Corbyn campaign has a valedictory flavour about it - left-wing people think of the excitement they had with the Tony Benn insurgency, and enjoy the revisit, but I don't think anyone is treating it as a serious challenge. Mostly members see it as Andy=likeable and down to earth, Yvette=experienced and poised, Liz=might get floating votes. If Andy can add "might get floating votes" to his package with polls like these, he'll swing it.

    It's important to try to visualise the position in 2020. The Tories will have a new leader, probably a mainstream "steady as we go" type like Hammond or May (if it's Boris, all bets are off as he'll either soar or crash), but a record of economic pain and a lot of quarrelling about Europe. We need have someone who can credibly say that they're not interested in all that European stuff, what matters is how the lives of ordinary people improve. Being seen as down to earth to going to be important - people gave Ed credit for being concerned about ordinary people, but not for really understanding them.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It's Republicanism by the backdoor.
    watford30 said:

    How else will Sturgeon pay for a new helicopter.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.

    (snip)
    How do you know? This sounds rather like 'never kissed a Tory'. Are you sure that you're not so strident in your views that people just cough politely and say, "no, never"?

    And if it is true, perhaps you should broaden your social horizons a little from your little echo chamber.

    It is the 'never have. never will' bit that sounds particularly unbelievable.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721

    HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.

    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.
    Well OKC. A much better chance than under the warmonger Blair, bonkers Brown who busted Britain and then the unelectable, weird lefty Ed Miliband..

    You should be damned grateful.
    Jumping to conclusions again SqR!

    The Tories enthusiastically supported Blair over Iraq; probably wouldn't even have a vote in the House on the matter! If they'd backed the late lamented Charlie Kennedy, with the Labour rebels, the Iraq War would probably, as far as the UK was concerned, have been someone else's fight!

    Secondly the last election, as I've said before wasn't so much won by the Tories but lost by Labour in Scotland. And the SNP was used as a bogeyman by Crosby et al in marginal and LD seats, as Mr Mark has made plain.

    Brown's big mistake of course was to trust the criminal banking fraternity.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    watford30 said:

    How else will Sturgeon pay for a new helicopter.
    She is Great Britian's highest paid politician.

    Some Labour types seem to have got their act together - concentrating on the crap performance in Education and Health of the SNP government.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Fenster said:

    Kendall is new and interesting and Cooper has always been a classy, intelligent act. For starters it would be historic for Labour to elect a full-time female leader and a female would be harder for the Tory machine/right wing press to knock about.

    The trouble with this kind of assertion is that it is pure wind.

    Nothing in Mrs. Balls' history suggests that she is "a classy, intelligent act" - she has made no impression at all in any brief; she permanently wears the expression of a bulldog licking piss off a wasp; and frankly, given this underwhelming record, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that she is where she is largely because she is Mrs. Balls - which in itself calls her judgment gravely into question.

    Neither is there any prospect of the Tories wanting or not wanting to "knock about" a female Labour leader. Remember, the Tories' assessment of the Labour leader is always right. Always. They said Callaghan was a bumbling fool, Foot was a senile lefty, Kinnock was a vacuous lighweight, Smith was a spendaholic, Blair was Demon Eyes, Brown was mad and incompetent and Miliband was a backstabbing treacherous nerd. Every one of these characterisations was spot on factually accurate.

    There is plenty of factual ammo to use against every Labour leadership candidate save perhaps Kendall, where the attack will be "Liz who?"
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Fenster said:

    Kendall is new and interesting and Cooper has always been a classy, intelligent act. For starters it would be historic for Labour to elect a full-time female leader and a female would be harder for the Tory machine/right wing press to knock about.

    The trouble with this kind of assertion is that it is pure wind.

    Nothing in Mrs. Balls' history suggests that she is "a classy, intelligent act" - she has made no impression at all in any brief; she permanently wears the expression of a bulldog licking piss off a wasp; and frankly, given this underwhelming record, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that she is where she is largely because she is Mrs. Balls - which in itself calls her judgment gravely into question.

    Neither is there any prospect of the Tories wanting or not wanting to "knock about" a female Labour leader. Remember, the Tories' assessment of the Labour leader is always right. Always. They said Callaghan was a bumbling fool, Foot was a senile lefty, Kinnock was a vacuous lighweight, Smith was a spendaholic, Blair was Demon Eyes, Brown was mad and incompetent and Miliband was a backstabbing treacherous nerd. Every one of these characterisations was spot on factually accurate.

    There is plenty of factual ammo to use against every Labour leadership candidate save perhaps Kendall, where the attack will be "Liz who?"
    Cooper's fingerprints were all over the HIPS debacle. Enough said.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    The Tories IIRC backed the invasion of Iraq along with many others because they believed there was credible evidence. I backed the war and voted Labour at the time.

    The lies from Blair/Campbell are IMO the biggest shame any government deserved. It wasn't a mistaken judgement call - it was a LIE. I can't ever forgive them for that. Ever.

    Iraq is a special case when it comes to misleading the population. I don't consider those who were in principle against the war any different. Or better in hindsight.

    HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.

    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.
    Well OKC. A much better chance than under the warmonger Blair, bonkers Brown who busted Britain and then the unelectable, weird lefty Ed Miliband..

    You should be damned grateful.
    Jumping to conclusions again SqR!

    The Tories enthusiastically supported Blair over Iraq; probably wouldn't even have a vote in the House on the matter! If they'd backed the late lamented Charlie Kennedy, with the Labour rebels, the Iraq War would probably, as far as the UK was concerned, have been someone else's fight!

    Secondly the last election, as I've said before wasn't so much won by the Tories but lost by Labour in Scotland. And the SNP was used as a bogeyman by Crosby et al in marginal and LD seats, as Mr Mark has made plain.

    Brown's big mistake of course was to trust the criminal banking fraternity.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.

    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.
    All the goodies that the Tories are showering on OAPs should allow the old folk to save a lot and pass it down to their offspring.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I had two close friends badly burned by HIPS training.
    watford30 said:

    Fenster said:

    Kendall is new and interesting and Cooper has always been a classy, intelligent act. For starters it would be historic for Labour to elect a full-time female leader and a female would be harder for the Tory machine/right wing press to knock about.

    The trouble with this kind of assertion is that it is pure wind.

    Nothing in Mrs. Balls' history suggests that she is "a classy, intelligent act" - she has made no impression at all in any brief; she permanently wears the expression of a bulldog licking piss off a wasp; and frankly, given this underwhelming record, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that she is where she is largely because she is Mrs. Balls - which in itself calls her judgment gravely into question.

    Neither is there any prospect of the Tories wanting or not wanting to "knock about" a female Labour leader. Remember, the Tories' assessment of the Labour leader is always right. Always. They said Callaghan was a bumbling fool, Foot was a senile lefty, Kinnock was a vacuous lighweight, Smith was a spendaholic, Blair was Demon Eyes, Brown was mad and incompetent and Miliband was a backstabbing treacherous nerd. Every one of these characterisations was spot on factually accurate.

    There is plenty of factual ammo to use against every Labour leadership candidate save perhaps Kendall, where the attack will be "Liz who?"
    Cooper's fingerprints were all over the HIPS debacle. Enough said.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175

    HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.

    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.
    I love these kinds of comments. Maybe you'd like to live in a country which separated out Tories - different, shops, schools, etc. The sheer stupidity of your comment is very encouraging to Conservative supporters.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.

    Make them wealthier
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Plato.. Blairs lie to the Nation "I have seen incontrovertible proof that Saddam Hussein has WOMD that are capable of being launched within 45 minutes" he hadn't seen the proof.. it didn't exist....he lied
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    edited June 2015

    dr_spyn said:
    Golly, is that the fourth time that piece has been linked to? Such a shame the term for a group of animals indulging in collective behaviour is forbidden. I guess I'll just have to stick with Daily Mail readers.
    I think you have made it the fifth.
    I think you don't know the difference between consciously linking to an article and quoting a post that links to same article. In the latter case the echo chamber is well into double figures.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited June 2015

    Financier said:

    O/T Global dewarming?

    Met Office’s Hadley Centre, which looks at long term forecasts, said there was a 15-20 per cent chance that we could match the temperatures last seen in 1645-1715 – sometimes called the Little Ice Age - when the River Thames froze over.

    This could take place at some point within the next 40 years.

    The prediction is based on counting sun spots – dark patches on the sun – that are hot spots and signs of increased solar activity.

    The decrease in the sun’s heat is known as a ‘Maunder minimum’ after Walter Maunder - the astronomer who first noted sunspots were at their lowest during the cold period between 1645 and 1715.

    Studies by the Met Office and others have found a decrease in sun spots - suggesting the sun may be going through a cooler phase.

    The cooling effect is expected to be strongest in northern Europe, the UK and eastern parts of North America - particularly during winter. For example, for northern Europe the cooling is in the range -0.4 to -0.8 °C.

    This is because computer simulations predict a big fall in solar activity would disrupt winds and suck cold air southwards from the Arctic.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136780/

    It would be good to be given a partial breathing space by pure chance.
    Not sure it would be "good" to have the kind of winter's they had in the depth's of the Little Ice Age!

    Vastly more people will suffer and die in a colder period than will suffer and die in the relatively modest warming climate everyone is wringing their hands about,,,

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited June 2015
    Given that it'll take many decades for any supposed significant increase in temps to occur - people can MOVE!

    Golly, how bizarre. Migration - what's that??!! Not just sitting there and drowning in 250yrs time.
    GIN1138 said:

    Financier said:

    O/T Global dewarming?

    Met Office’s Hadley Centre, which looks at long term forecasts, said there was a 15-20 per cent chance that we could match the temperatures last seen in 1645-1715 – sometimes called the Little Ice Age - when the River Thames froze over.

    This could take place at some point within the next 40 years.

    The prediction is based on counting sun spots – dark patches on the sun – that are hot spots and signs of increased solar activity.

    The decrease in the sun’s heat is known as a ‘Maunder minimum’ after Walter Maunder - the astronomer who first noted sunspots were at their lowest during the cold period between 1645 and 1715.

    Studies by the Met Office and others have found a decrease in sun spots - suggesting the sun may be going through a cooler phase.

    The cooling effect is expected to be strongest in northern Europe, the UK and eastern parts of North America - particularly during winter. For example, for northern Europe the cooling is in the range -0.4 to -0.8 °C.

    This is because computer simulations predict a big fall in solar activity would disrupt winds and suck cold air southwards from the Arctic.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136780/

    It would be good to be given a partial breathing space by pure chance.
    Not sure it would be "good" to have the kind of winter's they had in the depth's of the Little Ice Age!

    Vastly more people will suffer and die in a colder period than will suffer and die in the relatively modest warming climate everyone is wringing their hands about,,,

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Good morning, everyone.

    Miss Plato, any idea how many were trained up?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I've no idea - but another friend was burnt by the Green Deal one too for lagging lofts. He coughed up a few hundred quid to be certified and all the funding to carrying it out was already gone.

    These schemes harm the most self-starting types again and again.

    Good morning, everyone.

    Miss Plato, any idea how many were trained up?

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    edited June 2015
    Plato said:

    Given that it'll take many decades for any supposed significant increase in temps to occur - people can MOVE!

    Golly, how bizarre. Migration - what's that??!! Not just sitting there and drowning in 250yrs time.

    GIN1138 said:

    Financier said:

    O/T Global dewarming?

    Met Office’s Hadley Centre, which looks at long term forecasts, said there was a 15-20 per cent chance that we could match the temperatures last seen in 1645-1715 – sometimes called the Little Ice Age - when the River Thames froze over.

    This could take place at some point within the next 40 years.

    The prediction is based on counting sun spots – dark patches on the sun – that are hot spots and signs of increased solar activity.

    The decrease in the sun’s heat is known as a ‘Maunder minimum’ after Walter Maunder - the astronomer who first noted sunspots were at their lowest during the cold period between 1645 and 1715.

    Studies by the Met Office and others have found a decrease in sun spots - suggesting the sun may be going through a cooler phase.

    The cooling effect is expected to be strongest in northern Europe, the UK and eastern parts of North America - particularly during winter. For example, for northern Europe the cooling is in the range -0.4 to -0.8 °C.

    This is because computer simulations predict a big fall in solar activity would disrupt winds and suck cold air southwards from the Arctic.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136780/

    It would be good to be given a partial breathing space by pure chance.
    Not sure it would be "good" to have the kind of winter's they had in the depth's of the Little Ice Age!

    Vastly more people will suffer and die in a colder period than will suffer and die in the relatively modest warming climate everyone is wringing their hands about,,,

    Yeah.

    Warm things up to 2C and... For most parts of the world it's manageable (if a little uncomfortable in places)

    Cool things down by 2C in the major population regions of Europe, Asia and North America and your talking about tremendous hardship and suffering - Especially given "the west" is set on making heat and fuel as expensive as it possibly can.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    dr_spyn said:
    Golly, is that the fourth time that piece has been linked to? Such a shame the term for a group of animals indulging in collective behaviour is forbidden. I guess I'll just have to stick with Daily Mail readers.
    Hadn't seen the other 3 links - I'm so sorry.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Bit late, but a rambly round-up of some E3 stuff that caught my eye is up here:
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/e3-round-up.html

    Mostly Fallout 4.

    Mr. Gin, giant icicles dangling from wind turbines will only enhance their efficiency ;)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited June 2015
    OT Does anyone watch Discovery Channel? It's the only bit of the NOW TV bundle I fancy - but I find more than 3 or 4hrs of documentaries a day = a headache.

    Are they good quality ones? A few light ones? Natural history progs have a habit of being rather data heavy. They seem to have A LOT about dinosaurs.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/is-andy-burnham-most-likely-to-boost-labours-election-chances/

    "Kendall scored highly among young voters, with 43% of the 18-24 year olds bracket believing she was Labour’s best electoral asset. Cooper is favoured among more women than men, while Burnham shows strong support in the North West."

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/its-not-voter-id-or-community-organising-its-a-question-of-how-we-do-both/ by Stella Creasey

  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    William Hill have opened the SLAB leader market - Kezia 1/7 and Ken 4/1.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    calum said:

    William Hill have opened the SLAB leader market - Kezia 1/7 and Ken 4/1.

    That is depressing. From the little I have seen of her if Kezia is the answer SLAB are still asking the wrong questions.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited June 2015
    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/is-andy-burnham-most-likely-to-boost-labours-election-chances/

    "Kendall scored highly among young voters, with 43% of the 18-24 year olds bracket believing she was Labour’s best electoral asset. Cooper is favoured among more women than men, while Burnham shows strong support in the North West."

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/its-not-voter-id-or-community-organising-its-a-question-of-how-we-do-both/ by Stella Creasey

    Whenever I read anything about Butcher now, I form a mental picture of Harry Secombe as Mr. Bumble the Beadle in Oliver!, and I imagine Butcher spinning Oliver's "May I have some more?" line as evidence that the gruel was so delicious the orphans were clamouring for second helpings, and that the council staff were clearly doing a grand job of managing the state orphanage.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/is-andy-burnham-most-likely-to-boost-labours-election-chances/

    "Kendall scored highly among young voters, with 43% of the 18-24 year olds bracket believing she was Labour’s best electoral asset. Cooper is favoured among more women than men, while Burnham shows strong support in the North West."

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/its-not-voter-id-or-community-organising-its-a-question-of-how-we-do-both/ by Stella Creasey

    'while Burnham shows strong support in the North West.'

    Not really where he needs to be strong....
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited June 2015
    He's from Liverpool, donchaknow :weary: [this is my Andy Emoticon face]

    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/is-andy-burnham-most-likely-to-boost-labours-election-chances/

    "Kendall scored highly among young voters, with 43% of the 18-24 year olds bracket believing she was Labour’s best electoral asset. Cooper is favoured among more women than men, while Burnham shows strong support in the North West."

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/its-not-voter-id-or-community-organising-its-a-question-of-how-we-do-both/ by Stella Creasey

    'while Burnham shows strong support in the North West.'

    Not really where he needs to be strong....
  • HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.
    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Using the word "never" to describe how you will always vote indicates that you do not think about how to vote. If grand children were a concern the last thing they need is for this generation to pile up debts for the next. Unless those grand children will all be on benefits.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    DavidL said:

    calum said:

    William Hill have opened the SLAB leader market - Kezia 1/7 and Ken 4/1.

    That is depressing. From the little I have seen of her if Kezia is the answer SLAB are still asking the wrong questions.
    I couldn't agree more, Kezia did disclose during an interview at the weekend that SLAB have around 15,000 members, I've put £50 on Ken as Kezia is certainly the establishment candidate but how will she go down with the wider membership ?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    I'd have thought that by 2020 the situation in Scotland will be sorted one way or another. Either Scotland is independent, or is heading there following a vote, or it is more entrenched in the Union. Either way it will be much less of a factor for English voters than it was in May. If Scotland is gone or is going, it does not matter, if it is staying the SNP will have to have had a major rethink on its approach to being at Westminster. All that will have a significant bearing on the GE in 2020 (is there also a new Assembly election due then as well?).
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    HYUFD said:

    IA Pensioners always vote for the Tories, young people generally Labour and there is always a turnout gap, it is the middle aged who win elections

    Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.

    One matter which concerns us is what current Conservative policies will do to our children, grandchildren, and even worse, great-grandchildren.
    Well OKC. A much better chance than under the warmonger Blair, bonkers Brown who busted Britain and then the unelectable, weird lefty Ed Miliband..

    You should be damned grateful.
    Jumping to conclusions again SqR!

    The Tories enthusiastically supported Blair over Iraq; probably wouldn't even have a vote in the House on the matter! If they'd backed the late lamented Charlie Kennedy, with the Labour rebels, the Iraq War would probably, as far as the UK was concerned, have been someone else's fight!

    Secondly the last election, as I've said before wasn't so much won by the Tories but lost by Labour in Scotland. And the SNP was used as a bogeyman by Crosby et al in marginal and LD seats, as Mr Mark has made plain.

    Brown's big mistake of course was to trust the criminal banking fraternity.
    I thought it a fair answer. Labour have screwed GBPLC royally and they are now suffering the consequences. As I said, you should be damned grateful the Tories are clearing up the mess left after 13 yrs of Labour misrule and doubly thankful the electorate were sensible enough to say no to Ed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Plato said:
    All of them.

    Pensions, tax credits, HB, ESA, DLA, CB, Pension credit.

    Cut em all I say.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Talking of graphs, here's one:

    http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/2015/01/blogs/free-exchange/20150131_woc808.png

    You can see how the state pension creates a mass of pensioners on a sustainable but not generous income. Which is of course what it is designed to do.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Plato said:

    He's from Liverpool, donchaknow :weary: [this is my Andy Emoticon face]

    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/is-andy-burnham-most-likely-to-boost-labours-election-chances/

    "Kendall scored highly among young voters, with 43% of the 18-24 year olds bracket believing she was Labour’s best electoral asset. Cooper is favoured among more women than men, while Burnham shows strong support in the North West."

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/its-not-voter-id-or-community-organising-its-a-question-of-how-we-do-both/ by Stella Creasey

    'while Burnham shows strong support in the North West.'

    Not really where he needs to be strong....
    Ah but he is a bit more with it because he is an Evertonian. It is a bit like middle aged business men who choose Audis instead of BMWs to show how radically non conformist they are.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937

    dr_spyn said:
    Golly, is that the fourth time that piece has been linked to? Such a shame the term for a group of animals indulging in collective behaviour is forbidden. I guess I'll just have to stick with Daily Mail readers.
    I think you have made it the fifth.
    I think you don't know the difference between consciously linking to an article and quoting a post that links to same article. In the latter case the echo chamber is well into double figures.
    There have been at least a couple of other SNP troll exposees that I have missed through not being around for a few days.

    More "Quislings", I see.

    Is there a single constituency in Scotland which didn't have an SNP official spearheading the abuse campaign?

    It is all coming out, so why doesn't SNP-central just publish a list ? This way is just tedious.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. L, are you saying Burnham is cooler than Mr. Eagles? :p

    Of course, all the really cool kids are into F1.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited June 2015
    :smiley: Life crisis middle-aged men who buy girly cars are saying all the wrong thing = Audi A4.

    I bought a Mercedes SLK for mine - an upgrade from my 1974 Spitfire. It didn't handle much better - I called it my Rollerskate.
    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    He's from Liverpool, donchaknow :weary: [this is my Andy Emoticon face]

    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/is-andy-burnham-most-likely-to-boost-labours-election-chances/

    "Kendall scored highly among young voters, with 43% of the 18-24 year olds bracket believing she was Labour’s best electoral asset. Cooper is favoured among more women than men, while Burnham shows strong support in the North West."

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/its-not-voter-id-or-community-organising-its-a-question-of-how-we-do-both/ by Stella Creasey

    'while Burnham shows strong support in the North West.'

    Not really where he needs to be strong....
    Ah but he is a bit more with it because he is an Evertonian. It is a bit like middle aged business men who choose Audis instead of BMWs to show how radically non conformist they are.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    I wonder how many staff the Daily Mail have got trawling the internet for Cybernat posts, the irony of this is that the DM is at the forefront of Cyberunionism, these Cyber communities do battle on a daily basis on twitter. I think the Unionist have the full MSM backing and are probably more numerous than the Nats. Each side gives as good as it gets.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    He's from Liverpool, donchaknow :weary: [this is my Andy Emoticon face]

    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/is-andy-burnham-most-likely-to-boost-labours-election-chances/

    "Kendall scored highly among young voters, with 43% of the 18-24 year olds bracket believing she was Labour’s best electoral asset. Cooper is favoured among more women than men, while Burnham shows strong support in the North West."

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/its-not-voter-id-or-community-organising-its-a-question-of-how-we-do-both/ by Stella Creasey

    'while Burnham shows strong support in the North West.'

    Not really where he needs to be strong....
    Ah but he is a bit more with it because he is an Evertonian. It is a bit like middle aged business men who choose Audis instead of BMWs to show how radically non conformist they are.

    Not really. You choose your football team a long time before you hit middle age and in a place like Liverpool it will be a family thing. Going with Everton in the late 70s/early 80s was rather like going with Spurs now if you live in North London.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited June 2015
    Plato said:

    He's from Liverpool, donchaknow :weary: [this is my Andy Emoticon face]

    Surely one of these for Boo Hoo Burnham: :cry::joy:
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited June 2015
    I suspect very many people who comment on the Mail misunderstand what they're doing.

    It's 90% click-bait. It's in the business of generating controversy and attracting attention for its advertisers.

    It reflects the concerns of a huge swath of Middle Britain. It's the paper read by Most Liberal Democrats IIRC.

    It's a Guilty Pleasure by those who pretend they never read it, but love it.

    Having been personally monstered by it - I'd never buy it, but it does get great details and angles which makes it very very successful. If I read a crime story in the Times, I know there's almost always more juicy details in the Mail.
    calum said:

    I wonder how many staff the Daily Mail have got trawling the internet for Cybernat posts, the irony of this is that the DM is at the forefront of Cyberunionism, these Cyber communities do battle on a daily basis on twitter. I think the Unionist have the full MSM backing and are probably more numerous than the Nats. Each side gives as good as it gets.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Morning all, could I ask a question that will show once and for all that I'm an idiot with techy matters. How do I upload an excel file from my computer to the web in a way that doesn't destroy the original format? Google drive doesn't seem to work for this purpose.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Financier said:

    Kendall is the only one of the four offering any new ideas or even a spark of vision. The other three are just retreading old and failed policies and are not using their brains or even showing any evidence of having any.

    The next debate could be interesting - anyone know when it is?

    I agree. Kendall is the only one not circling the Labour plughole. Though Burnham is the best of the rest. Cooper is dire both presentationally and through her decade of underperformance as a minister.

    I think there is a debate on Sunday Politics 19th July. There are plenty of hustings too.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    calum said:

    I wonder how many staff the Daily Mail have got trawling the internet for Cybernat posts, the irony of this is that the DM is at the forefront of Cyberunionism, these Cyber communities do battle on a daily basis on twitter. I think the Unionist have the full MSM backing and are probably more numerous than the Nats. Each side gives as good as it gets.

    I think we all know that a large chunk of it is organised. The BBC chap who was getting pelters then after doing a well known chap a favour it suddenly stopped overnight.

    The days of distracting from the crap job being done by Holyrood are beginning to come to an end.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I liked the eye brows on mine :wink::weary:
    Anorak said:

    Plato said:

    He's from Liverpool, donchaknow :weary: [this is my Andy Emoticon face]

    Surely one of these for Boo Hoo Burnham: :cry::joy:
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @OldKingCole

    'Neither my wife and I, nor many of our friends, all OAP's, vote Tory. Never have, never will.'

    Your badge of honor is in the mail.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    He's from Liverpool, donchaknow :weary: [this is my Andy Emoticon face]

    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/is-andy-burnham-most-likely-to-boost-labours-election-chances/

    "Kendall scored highly among young voters, with 43% of the 18-24 year olds bracket believing she was Labour’s best electoral asset. Cooper is favoured among more women than men, while Burnham shows strong support in the North West."

    http://labourlist.org/2015/06/its-not-voter-id-or-community-organising-its-a-question-of-how-we-do-both/ by Stella Creasey

    'while Burnham shows strong support in the North West.'

    Not really where he needs to be strong....
    Ah but he is a bit more with it because he is an Evertonian. It is a bit like middle aged business men who choose Audis instead of BMWs to show how radically non conformist they are.

    Not really. You choose your football team a long time before you hit middle age and in a place like Liverpool it will be a family thing. Going with Everton in the late 70s/early 80s was rather like going with Spurs now if you live in North London.
    Mike Lyons and the 10 dwarfs.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited June 2015
    Plato said:

    I liked the eye brows on mine :wink::weary:

    Anorak said:

    Plato said:

    He's from Liverpool, donchaknow :weary: [this is my Andy Emoticon face]

    Surely one of these for Boo Hoo Burnham: :cry::joy:
    Fair enough! There really needs to be a monobrow icon. http://www.monobrow.com/
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