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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Henry G Manson says It’s advantage Sadiq in the London Labour contest

You know when a candidate is losing when they start to blame the rules of the game. We don’t get more proof than in London right now. Len Duvall, a backer of Tessa Jowell’s bid to be Labour mayoral candidate, has publicly warned of the dangers of muslims and trade union members registering to vote in the Labour mayoral selection.

Read the full story here

GeoffM

First

felix

Fab - Labour moving left in London with a Mayor who wants ethnic quotas. What could possibly go wrong?

It's really good to see how quickly and profoundly the party is showing awareness of why it lost so heavily last month.

DecrepitJohnL

OT Ladbrokes and Corals are said to be in merger talks.

SimonStClare

Morning all.

Sadiq Khan ‘has won the support of Oona King and Ken Livingstone.’

Tessa Jowell should highlight that in her campaign bumf.

felix

SimonStClare said:

Morning all.

Sadiq Khan ‘has won the support of Oona King and Ken Livingstone.’

Tessa Jowell should highlight that in her campaign bumf.

Not to mention Margaret Hodge! Seems like the party in London is getting carried away by the, very modest swings achieved there last month. Just what they need to project into the rest of middle England - you really couldn't make it up.

SquareRoot

It mirrors what was going on in Scotland (without the ethnic issue) . Labour are going to find it very hard to get elected if they play dirty against each other.

Long may it continue.

Moses_

SimonStClare said:

Morning all.

Sadiq Khan ‘has won the support of Oona King and Ken Livingstone.’

Tessa Jowell should highlight that in her campaign bumf.

"Has the support of the left wing unions" ..... (Enough to make most shudder)

DavidL

SquareRoot said:

It mirrors what was going on in Scotland (without the ethnic issue) . Labour are going to find it very hard to get elected if they play dirty against each other.

Long may it continue.

It does indeed because one of the themes in the BBC program last night about the fall of Labour in Scotland was the long shadow caused by the Iraq war with even Charlie Falkner admitting it had been a damaging mistake for Labour (obviously rather more important than the tens of thousands of deaths of non voters). According to Henry that seems to be the same here.

London should be an easy win for Labour when the Tories don't have Boris but it may be that Sadiq Kahn will galvanise opposition in a way that Jowell wouldn't.

SimonStClare

Moses_ said:

SimonStClare said:

Morning all.

Sadiq Khan ‘has won the support of Oona King and Ken Livingstone.’

Tessa Jowell should highlight that in her campaign bumf.

"Has the support of the left wing unions" ..... (Enough to make most shudder)

Khan has the backing of both Unite, and the GMB. No wonder the Labour leader of the London Assembly is worried about a stich up.

Sean_F

FPT, Hunchman, Havering is still pretty solid for the Tories. Their majorities fell because of big swings to UKIP, not Labour. Interestingly, Labour used to be able to win that borough (like Hillingdon) but have no chance now. Labour did better in Chingford, but the right wing vote was still 61%.

But, you're general point is a good one. Seats like Enfield North and Ilford North are slipping away.

foxinsoxuk

SimonStClare said:

Moses_ said:

SimonStClare said:

Morning all.

Sadiq Khan ‘has won the support of Oona King and Ken Livingstone.’

Tessa Jowell should highlight that in her campaign bumf.

"Has the support of the left wing unions" ..... (Enough to make most shudder)

Khan has the backing of both Unite, and the GMB. No wonder the Labour leader of the London Assembly is worried about a stich up.

With the high profile of the London Mayor it looks like Khan will be the public face of Labour, second only to the new Leader.

Not a terribly appealing prospect. More of this:

http://order-order.com/2015/02/26/sadiq-khan-spoke-at-event-hosted-by-jihadi-john-group/#_@/NTzrKa_x0OAoEA

Casino_Royale

I suppose it's pointless to point out that whilst I'm repelled by Khan, as a centre-right voter, I feel decidedly ambivalent about Jowell? She's just the sort of Labour figure they need more of.

If Labour do pick Khan, and the Tories Goldsmith, we're on for a good fight.

SouthamObserver

It would be a real achievement for Labour to lose the London mayoral election next year, but it looks like they're going to give it their best shot. Khan is not so much mad or bad as utterly uninspiring and dispiriting. If he runs he will be defeated should the Tories choose a half decent candidate. Let's hope they go with Sol or Karren, but sadly there is only one Stupid Party in British politics these days.

Innocent_Abroad

Casino_Royale said:

I suppose it's pointless to point out that whilst I'm repelled by Khan, as a centre-right voter, I feel decidedly ambivalent about Jowell? She's just the sort of Labour figure they need more of.

If Labour do pick Khan, and the Tories Goldsmith, we're on for a good fight.

Goldsmith will win easily.

SouthamObserver

Innocent_Abroad said:

Casino_Royale said:

I suppose it's pointless to point out that whilst I'm repelled by Khan, as a centre-right voter, I feel decidedly ambivalent about Jowell? She's just the sort of Labour figure they need more of.

If Labour do pick Khan, and the Tories Goldsmith, we're on for a good fight.

Goldsmith will win easily.

Innocent_Abroad said:

Casino_Royale said:

I suppose it's pointless to point out that whilst I'm repelled by Khan, as a centre-right voter, I feel decidedly ambivalent about Jowell? She's just the sort of Labour figure they need more of.

If Labour do pick Khan, and the Tories Goldsmith, we're on for a good fight.

Goldsmith will win easily.

Yep - against Khan he'll be a shoe-in.

Scrapheap_as_was

DecrepitJohnL said:

OT Ladbrokes and Corals are said to be in merger talks.

Confirmed in RNS this morning

SouthamObserver

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Innocent_Abroad

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

It's always played at a neutral posture outside of election campaigns.

Flightpathl

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

Casino_Royale

DecrepitJohnL said:

OT Ladbrokes and Corals are said to be in merger talks.

Shadsy to take over Clueless Corals political desk? Darn. That was a good earner for me.

Chris123

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

Casino_Royale

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

Sean_F

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

Would anyone read the Standard now, if it wasn't given away free?

Sean_F

SouthamObserver said:

It would be a real achievement for Labour to lose the London mayoral election next year, but it looks like they're going to give it their best shot. Khan is not so much mad or bad as utterly uninspiring and dispiriting. If he runs he will be defeated should the Tories choose a half decent candidate. Let's hope they go with Sol or Karren, but sadly there is only one Stupid Party in British politics these days.

Labour led by 9% in London this year, so I agree that it would be a major achievement to lose.

SouthamObserver

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

Moses_

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

BannedInParis

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

She's not quite as pro-Labour IRL.

Plus she's quite pretty, so that's a plus.

Charles

Chris123 said:

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

Which bit about the imminent slaughter of up to 500,000 civilians justifies inverted commas?

Innocent_Abroad

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

Hatred of anyone who isn't privileged by accident of birth is a precondition of commenting here, SO. You ought to know that by now

Charles

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

Her tone is pretty whiney though, and that irritates more than the content, tbh.

I don't think I've ever read anything positive she's written about the world

Moses_

Chris123 said:

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

Most of those in, or coming out of Libya are not Libyan. They come from the Middle East conflicts and Central / East Africa (though no doubt though there are probably some Libyans involved.)

kle4

Innocent_Abroad said:

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

Hatred of anyone who isn't privileged by accident of birth is a precondition of commenting here, SO. You ought to know that by now

Now now, that'll force plenty of people go all four Yorkshiremanin retaliation. Now when I was a a lad, times was tough...

TCPoliticalBetting

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

Labour invite in hundreds of thousands to London. Meanwhile under their planning and finance allocations only tens of thousands of homes are built in London. This increases property prices and rental rates. The chattering classes want more immigrants and lower property prices. These are illogical positions that Urwin and Toynbee do not understand.

PS Urwin moans about BuyTo Let at a time when London 's property market has some of the lowest returns on property investment for BTL. Sensible BTL landlords avoid London.

foxinsoxuk

Moses_ said:

Chris123 said:

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

Most of those in, or coming out of Libya are not Libyan. They come from the Middle East conflicts and Central / East Africa (though no doubt though there are probably some Libyans involved.)

In particular many are Eritrean or Sudanese. Places where no Western intervention occurred or was contemplated.

No need for us to screw up these countries for them, they are past masters at it.

Flightpathl

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

Its Schengen that is insanity. If we walk out of the EU the real danger is we would have to sign up to be part of any trade deal. As it is we are securely out. Originally the agreement operated independently from the EU now it is part of EU legislation. Any new member must join - this is something that the SNP seem to forget when they talk about leaving the UK only to join the EU.

Moses_

Sky news
Titanic Composer Feared Dead In Plane Crash
James Horner has not been heard from since the single-engine aircraft registered to him crashed in southern California.

FalseFlag

Charles said:

Chris123 said:

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

Which bit about the imminent slaughter of up to 500,000 civilians justifies inverted commas?

500,000! Why pluck that number out of the thin air?

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/02/01/hillarys-war/

We certainly didn't intervene in the Ukraine or Bahrain when the governments there started killing their own people. The extraordinary thing is after the debacle of Iraq that Cameron followed up with Libya and Syria, history will not be kind.

Flightpathl

Chris123 said:

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

'construed'? There was a humanitarian crisis and it seems to me there would still have been refugees sailing across the med had we done nothing

FalseFlag

Moses_ said:

Chris123 said:

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

Most of those in, or coming out of Libya are not Libyan. They come from the Middle East conflicts and Central / East Africa (though no doubt though there are probably some Libyans involved.)

True, they are African economic immigrants and certainly not refugees but Libya used to be a key barrier.

OldKingCole

BannedInParis said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

She's not quite as pro-Labour IRL.

Plus she's quite pretty, so that's a plus.

What an incredibly sexist comment, even for some of the wilder corners of PB!

Plato

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nigel4england

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

For reasons I will never understand some people on here seem to love the EU.

They must hate democracy.

rcs1000

@Moses

The Telegraph coverage of the Greek crisis has been woeful. AEP in particular has printed much that is - at best - woefully ignorant of the facts, or - worse - is deliberately misleading.

Bond_James_Bond

You know Labour's gone totally batshit crazy when a vicious old doctrinaire lefty like Margaret Hodge can be described, apparently seriously, as being "on the right of the party".

rcs1000

Flightpathl said:

Its Schengen that is insanity. If we walk out of the EU the real danger is we would have to sign up to be part of any trade deal. As it is we are securely out. Originally the agreement operated independently from the EU now it is part of EU legislation. Any new member must join - this is something that the SNP seem to forget when they talk about leaving the UK only to join the EU.

Really; I'd like to leave the EU, but join Schengen.

Innocent_Abroad

Bond_James_Bond said:

You know Labour's gone totally batshit crazy when a vicious old doctrinaire lefty like Margaret Hodge can be described, apparently seriously, as being "on the right of the party".

Maybe she's changed her opinions. People do, you know.

Sean_F

A new poll for ORB in the Independent has In leading 55/45%. Voters aged 45 and above support Out.

foxinsoxuk

nigel4england said:

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

For reasons I will never understand some people on here seem to love the EU.

They must hate democracy.

Not at all. Every country in the EU is a democracy, and the trend over time is for the democratic structures in the EU to become stronger. There is always some tension in balancing the will of the majority against minority rights and protections.

We shall shortly see whether the democratically expressed wish of the UK voter is to remain in the EU.

TGOHF

I fear this selection is the weakest link in Henry's trifecta of Cooper/Watson and Mr Khan.

Khan appears to be the Ed Miliband selection for mayor candidate - with dirtier laundry.

MaxPB

Casino_Royale said:

I suppose it's pointless to point out that whilst I'm repelled by Khan, as a centre-right voter, I feel decidedly ambivalent about Jowell? She's just the sort of Labour figure they need more of.

If Labour do pick Khan, and the Tories Goldsmith, we're on for a good fight.

It will be a very one sided fight. Khan has a very narrow appeal in London and Goldsmith will be like Boris and reach into Labour's soft centrist voter base. No way that Khan could beat Goldsmith and Labour would be insane to pick him, but since they picked Ed to go up against Dave I could see it happen anyway.

CarlottaVance

Its worth reading the ES article - what actually was said is a little different from Mr Manson's gloss and the Khan campaign's OUTRAGE response:

Asked whether candidates could be recruiting groups of union members and other interested parties, including from mosques, he replied: "Every candidate will be encouraging their supporters to join as registered supporters. The party will be monitoring this process closely.

"My understanding is that everyone should be individually registered.... There should be no group joining to minimise those abuses."

So who brought 'muslims' to the discussion:

A spokesman for Sadiq Khan, said: "It is deeply offensive to all Londoners that Len Duvall has singled out the Muslim community in his endorsement of Tessa Jowell. We would hope that Tessa distances herself from these comments immediately. You can't become Mayor by dividing London and Londoners."

"If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,"

Richard_Tyndall

Flightpathl said:

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

Its Schengen that is insanity. If we walk out of the EU the real danger is we would have to sign up to be part of any trade deal. As it is we are securely out. Originally the agreement operated independently from the EU now it is part of EU legislation. Any new member must join - this is something that the SNP seem to forget when they talk about leaving the UK only to join the EU.

Wrong yet again.

Schengen is s specific treaty unconnected with any other agreements. There is absolutely no reason why negotiating any trade deal would force us to join Schengen. That is simply more of your pathetic scare mongering.

Chris123

Flightpathl said:

Chris123 said:

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

'construed'? There was a humanitarian crisis and it seems to me there would still have been refugees sailing across the med had we done nothing

It was construed because there was a largely Islamist uprising backed by former Gaddafi loyalists that took up arms, initiated a revolt and were about to be crushed militarily when foreign powers intervened on the pretext of a "humanitarian disaster." Ironically, it was this intervention that gave rise to a real humanitarian disaster (even Henry Kissinger has acknowledged that)... Otherwise, the rebels would have been defeated and before long Gaddafi senior would have retired to make way for his son who would have been more of a moderniser and less of a clown than his father. Without doubt, Libya would have been much better off than it is today.

CarlottaVance

Richard_Tyndall said:

Flightpathl said:

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

Its Schengen that is insanity. If we walk out of the EU the real danger is we would have to sign up to be part of any trade deal. As it is we are securely out. Originally the agreement operated independently from the EU now it is part of EU legislation. Any new member must join - this is something that the SNP seem to forget when they talk about leaving the UK only to join the EU.

Schengen is s specific treaty unconnected with any other agreements. There is absolutely no reason why negotiating any trade deal would force us to join Schengen. That is simply more of your pathetic scare mongering.

Isn't joining Schengen a requirement of all new EU members?

If so, it is an issue for an independent Scotland.

Tissue_Price

Reading the comments on that March 2013 is instructive, if a little confusing at times owing to some posts having been deleted.

Pulpstar

DecrepitJohnL said:

OT Ladbrokes and Corals are said to be in merger talks.

@TheScreamingEagles This is very relevant for political betting ! Not sure why you've flagged the post...

Scott_P

@BBCLondon949: .@ZacGoldsmith due to reveal at noon whether his Richmond Park constituents have backed him to run for Mayor of London next year

TheScreamingEagles

Pulpstar said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

OT Ladbrokes and Corals are said to be in merger talks.

@TheScreamingEagles This is very relevant for political betting ! Not sure why you've flagged the post...

Oops, I blame scrolling on a touch screen phone whilst half awake.

Has been unflagged.

CarlottaVance

Innocent_Abroad said:

Bond_James_Bond said:

You know Labour's gone totally batshit crazy when a vicious old doctrinaire lefty like Margaret Hodge can be described, apparently seriously, as being "on the right of the party".

Maybe she's changed her opinions. People do, you know.

Frequently getting more 'small c' conservative with age - some of them even 'big C' Conservative.

Hence the failure of 'The Tory Party will die out'.........which I've been hearing for at least three decades....

Richard_Tyndall

foxinsoxuk said:

nigel4england said:

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

For reasons I will never understand some people on here seem to love the EU.

They must hate democracy.

Not at all. Every country in the EU is a democracy, and the trend over time is for the democratic structures in the EU to become stronger. There is always some tension in balancing the will of the majority against minority rights and protections.

We shall shortly see whether the democratically expressed wish of the UK voter is to remain in the EU.

Hang on. You are the one who has been complaining about the Referendum and saying this should have been decided by Parliament. Of course there is a strong suspicion that if it had looked at all likely Parliament would have voted for us to leave you would be moaning about how it should not be allowed without a referendum.

TheWhiteRabbit

Scott_P said:

@BBCLondon949: .@ZacGoldsmith due to reveal at noon whether his Richmond Park constituents have backed him to run for Mayor of London next year

Yeah, I wonder. Not!

volcanopete

As usual it pays to invest on the basis of Henry G's advice.With Sadiq and other ante-post bets at long double-figure prices,the opportunity invariably presents for an opening position which can be traded down the line via a lay off arb and the joys of a green screen.
I've layed currently to leave a no-lose status on Sadiq as better arbs may be available over time as his price contracts.
Reason is I still expect Tessa Jowell to win because of the primary equality priority,not racism or homophobia,is womens' equality.The one vision left of the TV debates was the 3 female leaders of the SNP,PC and the Greens having a group hug after going to shake Ed Miliband's hand,meaning the sisterhood are back in business,united across parties.It just may have left the electorate thinking "I want one",particularly while Harriet Harman is holding the reigns and which party would not benefit from a woman leader? Hillary is going to need friends here,too,to share the world stage with and what party would not benefit from an all woman shortlist for leadership positions? This is why I also think Ruth Davidson is the punt.If Jeremy Corbyn was overpriced at 100-1,surely she is too.
Anyone who missed out on the 100-1 on JC,there's another to go with 100-1 Kirsty Williams.Owen Pateson is still available at 66-1,very popular with mature traditionalists,just as JC is with Labour.He's likely to make the starting line.All have better probabilities than the price reflects.If not winners,then providing a valuable tradeable asset.
Backers of Sadiq Khan at long odds need to consider also backing the 7-4 available on Tessa Jowell which is another way of a no-lose bet or greening up.

runnymede

So Labour looking for a re-run of the racially divisive campaign of last time - presumably with a bit of extra spice this time?

rcs1000

CarlottaVance said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Flightpathl said:

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

Its Schengen that is insanity. If we walk out of the EU the real danger is we would have to sign up to be part of any trade deal. As it is we are securely out. Originally the agreement operated independently from the EU now it is part of EU legislation. Any new member must join - this is something that the SNP seem to forget when they talk about leaving the UK only to join the EU.

Schengen is s specific treaty unconnected with any other agreements. There is absolutely no reason why negotiating any trade deal would force us to join Schengen. That is simply more of your pathetic scare mongering.

Isn't joining Schengen a requirement of all new EU members?

If so, it is an issue for an independent Scotland.

Technically, all EU members (and a number of non EU members) are either members of either Schengen or the Common Travel Area.

Scotland would become a member of the Common Travel Area, joining the UK, Ireland, the Isle of Man, and the Balliwicks of Jersey and Guernsey.

Casino_Royale

Charles said:

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

Her tone is pretty whiney though, and that irritates more than the content, tbh.

I don't think I've ever read anything positive she's written about the world

That's precisely my point. It's her sparkling personality. Her columns are full of cynicism, sarcasm and thinly-disguised resentment. They are also quite anti-men.

She then writes wistfully as Valentine's Day approaches about how she won't get any cards, but will have her dog for company, but isn't of course really that bothered as she's a proud and independent woman. She utterly fails to see any connection.

Casino_Royale

Innocent_Abroad said:

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

Hatred of anyone who isn't privileged by accident of birth is a precondition of commenting here, SO. You ought to know that by now

What a stupid thing to say.

I don't hate her, I hate very few people indeed, I just find her columns irritating. I think the Standard could do better.

Casino_Royale

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

I am from the same generation. She absolutely does not speak for me, and I'd implore all politicians to ignore such resentful and miserable whining.

DavidL

At 33-1 Kahn was undoubtedly a great trading bet and well done to Henry as usual in spotting the value but what has he done that makes him a good candidate for London Mayor?

It seems to me that to suggest he has a superficial intelligence is somewhat generous and suggests a depth that is just not there. Maybe a patina of intelligence?

It would be part of a somewhat sad trend if this is as good as Labour think they can do. Jowell is frankly boring (despite the leather jacket the other day) but she is solid, competent and has played a part in delivering a massive project in London.

TheScreamingEagles

Jez We Can

Why are we so certain that Jeremy Corbyn can't win?

There is a path to victory for Jeremy Corbyn. A fraught one, but it's there.

http://bit.ly/1ddjOKD

Richard_Tyndall

CarlottaVance said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Flightpathl said:

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

Its Schengen that is insanity. If we walk out of the EU the real danger is we would have to sign up to be part of any trade deal. As it is we are securely out. Originally the agreement operated independently from the EU now it is part of EU legislation. Any new member must join - this is something that the SNP seem to forget when they talk about leaving the UK only to join the EU.

Schengen is s specific treaty unconnected with any other agreements. There is absolutely no reason why negotiating any trade deal would force us to join Schengen. That is simply more of your pathetic scare mongering.

Isn't joining Schengen a requirement of all new EU members?

If so, it is an issue for an independent Scotland.

Yes it is. And yes it would be an issue for Scotland and therefore indirectly for England. But it is not a requirement of either EFTA membership nor of course a free trade agreement. So it would not, ad Flightpath claims, be an issue when negotiating a deal.

rottenborough

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Scott_P said:

@BBCLondon949: .@ZacGoldsmith due to reveal at noon whether his Richmond Park constituents have backed him to run for Mayor of London next year

Yeah, I wonder. Not!

Just in time to resign over Heathrow expansion (report due in days apparently).

NickPalmer

At the moment, I'm leaning Khan myself, but I think Henry overstates the Blair aspect - Jowell won the "female" nomination against Abbott from my huge and very left-wing Islington North CLP and I've not heard anyone mention Blairism as a factor among the numerous London Labour members that I've talked to. It's a pre-2010 quarrel and life moves on.

I agree with Henry that any hint of anti-Muslim campaigning would be a killer in the party, but Carlotta's quote sounds harmless if that's the whole story - I wouldn't be surprised if the journalist span the quote to the Khan spokesman so that he was responding to something that hadn't been said.

Pulpstar

Oh Lord

Just checking through my old bets and have found £10 on Zac at 33s

Pulpstar

GO ZAC

rottenborough

DavidL said:

At 33-1 Kahn was undoubtedly a great trading bet and well done to Henry as usual in spotting the value but what has he done that makes him a good candidate for London Mayor?

It seems to me that to suggest he has a superficial intelligence is somewhat generous and suggests a depth that is just not there. Maybe a patina of intelligence?

It would be part of a somewhat sad trend if this is as good as Labour think they can do. Jowell is frankly boring (despite the leather jacket the other day) but she is solid, competent and has played a part in delivering a massive project in London.

I suspect anyone would be seen as boring after 8 years of Boris!

GarethoftheVale2

FPT - part of the reason IDS' majority looks quite small is the seat is undersized at 67k. In the aborted boundary review the initial plan was for a Chingford and Edmonton seat which was pretty unpopular all round!

There is a huge disparity in the electorates in NE London, which means all parties will have to fight hard at the boundary review:

Chingford - 67k
Walthamstow - 67k
Leyton - 65k
Ilford N - 78k
Ilford S - 95k
W Ham - 91k
E Ham - 87k
Barking - 74k
Dagenham - 69k
Hornchurch - 79k
Romford - 73k

If the 600 seat plan goes ahead the average seat should have 75k electors, which means the area could still keep 11 seats but there would have to be a big shuffle around e.g.

Wathamstow gains 10k from Leyton which in turn gains 22k from W Ham
W Ham gains 9k from E Ham
Chingford gains 10k from Ilford N which in turn gains 9k from Ilford S
Dagenham gains 8k from Barking which in turn gains 11k from Ilford S
Romford gains 3k from Honchurch

Casino_Royale

OldKingCole said:

BannedInParis said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

She's not quite as pro-Labour IRL.

Plus she's quite pretty, so that's a plus.

What an incredibly sexist comment, even for some of the wilder corners of PB!

She would undoubtedly agree with that. But can no man comment that he finds a woman columnist attractive anymore, and vice-versa?

BannedInParis

OldKingCole said:

BannedInParis said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

She's not quite as pro-Labour IRL.

Plus she's quite pretty, so that's a plus.

What an incredibly sexist comment, even for some of the wilder corners of PB!

Genuine at that.

I can tell her next time I see her that you're a fan.

Casino_Royale

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

I suppose it's pointless to point out that whilst I'm repelled by Khan, as a centre-right voter, I feel decidedly ambivalent about Jowell? She's just the sort of Labour figure they need more of.

If Labour do pick Khan, and the Tories Goldsmith, we're on for a good fight.

It will be a very one sided fight. Khan has a very narrow appeal in London and Goldsmith will be like Boris and reach into Labour's soft centrist voter base. No way that Khan could beat Goldsmith and Labour would be insane to pick him, but since they picked Ed to go up against Dave I could see it happen anyway.

It would probably hinge on turnout. I could see it being very close.

Pulpstar

GarethoftheVale2 said:

FPT - part of the reason IDS' majority looks quite small is the seat is undersized at 67k. In the aborted boundary review the initial plan was for a Chingford and Edmonton seat which was pretty unpopular all round!

There is a huge disparity in the electorates in NE London, which means all parties will have to fight hard at the boundary review:

Chingford - 67k
Walthamstow - 67k
Leyton - 65k
Ilford N - 78k
Ilford S - 95k
W Ham - 91k
E Ham - 87k
Barking - 74k
Dagenham - 69k
Hornchurch - 79k
Romford - 73k

If the 600 seat plan goes ahead the average seat should have 75k electors, which means the area could still keep 11 seats but there would have to be a big shuffle around e.g.

Wathamstow gains 10k from Leyton which in turn gains 22k from W Ham
W Ham gains 9k from E Ham
Chingford gains 10k from Ilford N which in turn gains 9k from Ilford S
Dagenham gains 8k from Barking which in turn gains 11k from Ilford S
Romford gains 3k from Honchurch

Greyhound racing always springs to mind with this lot !

Casino_Royale

Pulpstar said:

Oh Lord

Just checking through my old bets and have found £10 on Zac at 33s

Cha-Ching! Well done.

CarlottaVance

DavidL said:

It would be part of a somewhat sad trend if this is as good as Labour think they can do. Jowell is frankly boring (despite the leather jacket the other day) but she is solid, competent and has played a part in delivering a massive project in London.

Mush as I'd enjoy Labour picking a losing candidate, there's also the substantial risk they'd get elected - which is why I too would prefer Jowell - the Olympics were a considerable success, and while how much was down individually to Jowell is unknowable, and may be 'not very much' - at least she was there and helped make it happen - and was seen to be rooting for 'London' - not 'Labour'. In a previous life we used a simple recruiting criterion - 'Has done - will do'.

What has Khan done? (May be a lot - but I'm not aware of it).

TheWhiteRabbit

Pulpstar said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

FPT - part of the reason IDS' majority looks quite small is the seat is undersized at 67k. In the aborted boundary review the initial plan was for a Chingford and Edmonton seat which was pretty unpopular all round!

There is a huge disparity in the electorates in NE London, which means all parties will have to fight hard at the boundary review:

Chingford - 67k
Walthamstow - 67k
Leyton - 65k
Ilford N - 78k
Ilford S - 95k
W Ham - 91k
E Ham - 87k
Barking - 74k
Dagenham - 69k
Hornchurch - 79k
Romford - 73k

If the 600 seat plan goes ahead the average seat should have 75k electors, which means the area could still keep 11 seats but there would have to be a big shuffle around e.g.

Wathamstow gains 10k from Leyton which in turn gains 22k from W Ham
W Ham gains 9k from E Ham
Chingford gains 10k from Ilford N which in turn gains 9k from Ilford S
Dagenham gains 8k from Barking which in turn gains 11k from Ilford S
Romford gains 3k from Honchurch

Greyhound racing always springs to mind with this lot !

I've had a few hours sleep, maybe I'll get my facts right now!

Is there a good site for seeing what areas are in what seat at the moment?

Stratford is booming, the sooner it moves into the Leyton seat the better.

CarlottaVance

Well this has got something to offend everyone....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3134756/No-wonder-student-protests-turn-brawls-Left-wingers-t-control-conservatives-claims-study.html

bigjohnowls

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1345199362/AaRos_400x400.jpg

Sure i saw this person in TSE's harem

Financier

Hm! SK is a bit sensitive isn't he. Perhaps if he was elected, then the problems of Tower Hamlets et al may not see the light of day in future but would be quietly buried/ignored.

Just came across this year-old article by 'american thinker'. Probably most of it is still relevant with lots yet to discover.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/05/muslim_council_and_electoral_corruption_in_the_uk.html

Pulpstar

The mayoralty looks to be a 3 horse race at the moment. Perhaps 10% ? chance of it NOT being Goldsmith, Jowell or Khan.

If I was a bookie I'd take the top 3 to 100% book...

Zac 7-4;
Jowell 12-5;
Khan 2-1.

Top price on the others...

14s on Lammy;
30s on De Bois

Not offering those prices before anyone asks !

Of the prices right now, the 7-2 on Khan at 888 represents a bit of value if anyone is late to the party.

9-4 Conservatives is decent too, and covers a shock there... slightly better than 5-2 Zac.

Jowell is available at 3-1 - but top price Labour winning party is 1-2. That means the 7-4 that SkyBet is offering on Jowell's candidacy is actually slightly better.

So to summarise the best value right now on the realistic contenders is:

Khan 7-2 mayoralty @ 888
Conservatives 9-4 @ Skybet
Jowell Labour nomination 7-4 @ Skybet.

Financier

bigjohnowls said:

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1345199362/AaRos_400x400.jpg

Sure i saw this person in TSE's harem

Are you the chief eunuch then?

JEO

How can Sadiq Khan have "unity" as a theme with a straight face? He fully embraces the idea of multiculturalism, splitting the electorate more and more into little groups, and wants to go as far as having racial preferences in government hiring. He would be a highly divisive mayor, and would replicate the Tower Hamlets divide city-wide.

Charles

FalseFlag said:

Charles said:

Chris123 said:

Flightpathl said:

I continue to be amazed that Iraq 2003 continues to dominate the Labour Party when the real disgrace was the botched way we entered Afghanistan in 2006.

And don't forget the construed conflict in Libya where a major humanitarian crisis - the consequences of which we are still very much seeing today - was created on the pretext of a "humanitarian" intervention with the support by both Labour and the Conservatives.

Which bit about the imminent slaughter of up to 500,000 civilians justifies inverted commas?

500,000! Why pluck that number out of the thin air?

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/02/01/hillarys-war/

We certainly didn't intervene in the Ukraine or Bahrain when the governments there started killing their own people. The extraordinary thing is after the debacle of Iraq that Cameron followed up with Libya and Syria, history will not be kind.

The population was 630,000 in 2011 (Wiki).

The stories at the time - and I have to share nothing beyond press reports - were that the civilian population was under threat.

foxinsoxuk

Richard_Tyndall said:

foxinsoxuk said:

nigel4england said:

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

For reasons I will never understand some people on here seem to love the EU.

They must hate democracy.

Not at all. Every country in the EU is a democracy, and the trend over time is for the democratic structures in the EU to become stronger. There is always some tension in balancing the will of the majority against minority rights and protections.

We shall shortly see whether the democratically expressed wish of the UK voter is to remain in the EU.

Hang on. You are the one who has been complaining about the Referendum and saying this should have been decided by Parliament. Of course there is a strong suspicion that if it had looked at all likely Parliament would have voted for us to leave you would be moaning about how it should not be allowed without a referendum.

I think Referenda are poor ways of making decisions on complex issues, but if we are to have one will tespect the result.

TGOHF

JEO said:

How can Sadiq Khan have "unity" as a theme with a straight face? He fully embraces the idea of multiculturalism, splitting the electorate more and more into little groups, and wants to go as far as having racial preferences in government hiring. He would be a highly divisive mayor, and would replicate the Tower Hamlets divide city-wide.

Of course - which is why he will never be Mayor of London.

JEO

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:

SouthamObserver said:

It's also worth noting that the Standard is nowhere near as overtly pro-Tory as it was in Ken v Boris days. It still leans right, but it's reporting is far less skewed than it used to be and there are plenty of pro-Labour columnists.

Rosamund Urwin is by far the most irritating one. She writes like an understudy to Polly Toynbee. Her columns also ooze bitterness.

I can't recall ever agreeing with her on anything she's ever said.

I completely disagree. She is an authentic voice of Generation Rent and lives the life she writes about. Whoever hired her was very astute. Her stuff reflects a major strand of the London experience.

I am from the same generation. She absolutely does not speak for me, and I'd implore all politicians to ignore such resentful and miserable whining.

I am also from the same generation. I find her a dreadful columnist. It's quite rare that I actually check a columnist's name, but I only do it when the column is extremely good or extremely poor. I would say the majority of bad columns I read are written by her.

It's an insult to Polly Toynbee to be compared. I disagree with Toynbee a lot, but she has some level of deeper philosophy and thought behind her sentiments. Urwin is just reactively anti-Tory and incredibly smug. She ridicules anyone that has right of centre views to be written off as selfish/evil/reactionary/an idiot. She's emblematic of the mindset that lost Labour the election: people of like mind talking to themselves about how righteous they are, without stopping to check if the bulk of the public agree with them.

dugarbandier

CarlottaVance said:

Well this has got something to offend everyone....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3134756/No-wonder-student-protests-turn-brawls-Left-wingers-t-control-conservatives-claims-study.html

the really offensive thing is that they can get that kind of pish published in a "respectable" scientific journal

JEO

On Sadiq Khan, why does someone that grew up in south London support Liverpool?

Pulpstar

Goldsmith at 1-2 with Paddy for the Tory nomination is technically value I think...

JEO

foxinsoxuk said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

foxinsoxuk said:

nigel4england said:

Moses_ said:

The utter madness that is the EU

Daily Telegraph
.
"Greek debt crisis: hopes of a deal in next 48 hours as Tsipras must sell the plan at home - live
A glimmer of hope as EU leaders aim to finalise deal by Thursday which includes plans to hike taxes and reform pensions."

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.....?

Meanwhile across the channel Also from the Daily Telegraph...

"France must provoke 'diplomatic incident' with UK over migrants, says Calais mayor"

"Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart calls on French government to spark "diplomatic incident" with UK over migrant crisis, saying Britain must either adopte Schengen border rules or "leave" the EU."

The French want to move their problem because they agree to Schengen onto us who do not. No thought of why these people are on French soil, in a safe country and can claim asylum. No sireee !! It is the entire fault of the " Ros Beefs " just move them on to the UK because we the French have such crap border controls.

The EU and the Euro is just insanity.

For reasons I will never understand some people on here seem to love the EU.

They must hate democracy.

Not at all. Every country in the EU is a democracy, and the trend over time is for the democratic structures in the EU to become stronger. There is always some tension in balancing the will of the majority against minority rights and protections.

We shall shortly see whether the democratically expressed wish of the UK voter is to remain in the EU.

Hang on. You are the one who has been complaining about the Referendum and saying this should have been decided by Parliament. Of course there is a strong suspicion that if it had looked at all likely Parliament would have voted for us to leave you would be moaning about how it should not be allowed without a referendum.

I think Referenda are poor ways of making decisions on complex issues, but if we are to have one will tespect the result.

That's only credible if the election is free and fair, which the government is doing its best to avoid. You can't have the taxpayer fund one side in a referendum, and then expect the other side to accept a defeat as legitimate.

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

Khan's ethnic quotas proposal is despicable. It also puts Labour in a bad position if he gets their nomination.

Either he fails, in which case the new Labour leader starts their term with a significant loss, or he wins, and his ethnic quotas and other such nonsense will be rightly attacked by all and sundry for four years or so.

Wulfrun_Phil

If he wins that'll be in line to be PB betting tip of the year, for markets settled in 2015.

GIN1138

If Labour goes with Khan over Tessa they are mad...