Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is this the Old Etonian you should be backing as next Tory

2»

Comments

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen
    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Plato go to my Chelsy Swann blogspot and read about the USS NIMITZ and the Nuclear submarine I did a tour on.strange world these boys, and girls, live in.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Frank Field is a sensible man. Tried to get Johnson to stand against Ed.. Thought Gordon and Ed were deadvbeats.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3123168/Labour-mistakes-Gordon-Brown-Ed-Miliband-says-MP.html
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Will do. Read the other day that 31k of 40k U-boat sailors died in WW2. Wow.

    Plato go to my Chelsy Swann blogspot and read about the USS NIMITZ and the Nuclear submarine I did a tour on.strange world these boys, and girls, live in.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    From yesterday's thread: An item from the 2010 leadership contest with swing voters (SOUTHERN swing voters at that) saw Andy Burnham emerge as the top choice, ahead of both Milibands.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YwOWckI3gs
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    MTimT said:

    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
    I like it's turning radius!!

    http://www.marinelink.com/news/keellaid-austal-navys367345.aspx
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Whoah!
    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
    I like it's turning radius!!

    http://www.marinelink.com/news/keellaid-austal-navys367345.aspx
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Plato said:

    Will do. Read the other day that 31k of 40k U-boat sailors died in WW2. Wow.

    Plato go to my Chelsy Swann blogspot and read about the USS NIMITZ and the Nuclear submarine I did a tour on.strange world these boys, and girls, live in.

    Worst survival rate of any of the German services in WWII
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns. The first image I posted did not work. Here is one of a sister ship (Independence) which has one gun.

    http://cronkitenews.asu.edu/assets/images/12/02/10-giffords-ship2-full.jpg

    I know that submarines are traditionally classed as 'boats' but I think they still come under the definition of warship.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns. The first image I posted did not work. Here is one of a sister ship (Independence) which has one gun.

    http://cronkitenews.asu.edu/assets/images/12/02/10-giffords-ship2-full.jpg

    I know that submarines are traditionally classed as 'boats' but I think they still come under the definition of warship.
    OK. First surface warship.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I thought boats were without lifeboats - and ships had them as a general bit of definition shorthand.
    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns. The first image I posted did not work. Here is one of a sister ship (Independence) which has one gun.

    http://cronkitenews.asu.edu/assets/images/12/02/10-giffords-ship2-full.jpg

    I know that submarines are traditionally classed as 'boats' but I think they still come under the definition of warship.
    OK. First surface warship.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    edited June 2015
    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
    I like it's turning radius!!

    http://www.marinelink.com/news/keellaid-austal-navys367345.aspx
    "Guys, I want it to have enough firepower to smack a small state into next Tuesday, a shit load of offensive weaponry, anti-submarine capability, state of the art defensive stuff that can knock out an incoming gnat. But mostly I want it to be able to do donuts...."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Worst survival rate of any of the German services in WWII

    In fact it was even crazier than that - if you take away the ones taken prisoner, the trainees, training crews and the uboat crew reserved for the Type 21s (which didn't quite arrive), you find that the U-Boat arm had pretty much no survivors among those who went to sea!
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited June 2015
    U Boat deaths..not a good way to die. I imagine some of those lads are still in a mummified condition,locked in their sealed ,airtight chambers,at the bottom of some ocean. just waiting...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    Danny565 said:

    From yesterday's thread: An item from the 2010 leadership contest with swing voters (SOUTHERN swing voters at that) saw Andy Burnham emerge as the top choice, ahead of both Milibands.

    Interesting to watch that now. I'd concur that Burnham did best in that segment, perhaps because he focused on policy rather than platitudes. David Miliband was awful - addressing voters as if he were giving a brand strategy seminar.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Afternoon all :)

    Musing on the art or otherwise of leadership, I'm thinking about the extent to which the personal views of the leader of a party and the policy position of that party should be identical. In other words, do the leader's personal policies and viewpoints inform the party or does the Party expect that the leader should follow its defined line ?

    I'm not talking about a central policy plank or a key issue but something on the periphery. Let me offer an example - the Conservatives and foxhunting.

    Could one be a Conservative member and be opposed to foxhunting ? Clearly, yes. Could one be a Member, be opposed to foxhunting and accept a party line that says MPs should have a free vote on a bill to restore foxhunting ? Clearly, yes. Could one be a Conservative member, be opposed to foxhunting and support the Party if the view was there would be a 3-line whip to support a bill aimed at legalising foxhunting ? That would depend on how important to the individual as a matter of moral conscience foxhunting was.

    Now, that's apply to the same questions to the Party leader - could the party leader be opposed to foxhunting if the party line was to allow a free vote ? Yes, why not ? As an MP, the leader has a right to a free vote and will vote as he or she regards a matter of conscience.

    Could the Party leader, even if he or she personally from a point of moral principle, opposed foxhunting, stand up and support the Party if the overwhelming view was that MPs should be forced to support foxhunting in the Commons ?

    I'm interested to know what other people think and it's not a debate about foxhunting or even about the Conservatives but how parties work, how party leaders can and should influence the debate and at what point the Party can and should override the view of the leader ?

    Just a mild topic for a quiet Sunday afternoon and a diversion from endless wittering about the Punic Wars about which we've all heard quite enough !!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)
    (snip)

    I'm interested to know what other people think and it's not a debate about foxhunting or even about the Conservatives but how parties work, how party leaders can and should influence the debate and at what point the Party can and should override the view of the leader ?

    Just a mild topic for a quiet Sunday afternoon and a diversion from endless wittering about the Punic Wars about which we've all heard quite enough !!

    Stodge, it seems to me that your question is somewhat old fashioned and from a different age. In the olden days parties were vaguely democratic (even Labour). They had conferences and votes which determined policy in a range of areas. That policy might be opposed by the leadership on the basis they didn't agree or thought it would be an electoral liability.

    First the Tories and then Labour dropped all that. Newer parties like UKIP never really had it. In all of these parties the policy of the party is what the leadership thinks it should be and the democratic influence is largely restricted to appointing the leader in the first place.

    Only the Lib Dems have hung on to the concept of Conferences voting against the leadership line. It cannot be claimed to be a success. I think that time has passed.

    Does that lead to better policy? Not really. Very few politicians have the knowledge or expertise to make policy in several areas. But unity is supposed to be the key and that means what the boss says goes.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Does Blatter = Farage?

    Sepp Blatter is planning to UN-RESIGN after receiving support from African and Asian football federations, claim Swiss media. Swiss media claim Sepp Blatter is reconsidering his decision to quit
    Sources close to the Blatter said he has strong support in Africa and Asia
    Blatter is due to resign as FIFA president once his replacement is elected

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3123245/Sepp-Blatter-planning-RESIGN-receiving-support-African-Asian-football-federations-claim-Swiss-media.html#ixzz3d2WmVzyd
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Moses_ said:

    Does Blatter = Farage?

    Sepp Blatter is planning to UN-RESIGN after receiving support from African and Asian football federations, claim Swiss media. Swiss media claim Sepp Blatter is reconsidering his decision to quit
    Sources close to the Blatter said he has strong support in Africa and Asia
    Blatter is due to resign as FIFA president once his replacement is elected

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3123245/Sepp-Blatter-planning-RESIGN-receiving-support-African-Asian-football-federations-claim-Swiss-media.html#ixzz3d2WmVzyd


    I think the Africa/Asia portions of FIFA should take their ball and go home.

    Then the rest of the world can have their own world cup.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    England need to set a test match field with about 5 slips to have any hope of defending ~ 300 imo. No chance they'll defend it with a normal defensive field. Need quick wickets.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Pulpstar said:

    England need to set a test match field with about 5 slips to have any hope of defending ~ 300 imo. No chance they'll defend it with a normal defensive field. Need quick wickets.

    It's amazing how much cricket has changed. A few years ago you'd be delighted making 300.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    My twitter feed remains in FFA and Cybernat meltdown as the massed ranks of the MSM's "political commentators" carpet bomb twitter by retweeting each others links. What the MSM fails to report on is that for every extreme Cybernat there are at least many Cyberunionists, indeed most of these commentators are Cyberunionists and seem unable to recognise this. I'm happy to condemn the extremists on both sides.

    In terms of FFA, I've had the following link retweeted over 30 times in the last 24 hours, the chap who writes this blog tweeted about expecting Cybernat abuse, so far he has 9 comments which are all very polite:

    http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/lets-talk-about-growth.html

    https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/609826545394290689
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Och aye tha noo, my fellow Britons.

    Be interesting to see Osborne at PMQs. Will he be facing Harman?

    Glad to hear Philae's revived. I wonder what the working life of the probe is. Could we see it sleeping and waking for years to come?

    If Blatter un-resigns it'll be a disgrace. So it may well happen.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    F1 [ish]: Hulkenberg was part of the winning team at Le Mans. That won't hurt his seat prospects in the sport, but it may be contingent on Raikkonen being axed at Ferrari.

    Rosberg and Hamilton will be there for a few years, McLaren have been poor for a few years (although the basic car seems alright, it's the Honda engine which is awful, and Button will leave soon), and there might be a seat at Williams, but as it's a customer team that's a bit of a disadvantage.

    Ferrari's the place to go, mostly because of James Allison.
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 322
    GeoffM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England need to set a test match field with about 5 slips to have any hope of defending ~ 300 imo. No chance they'll defend it with a normal defensive field. Need quick wickets.

    It's amazing how much cricket has changed. A few years ago you'd be delighted making 300.
    Geoff M, any comments on the forthcoming elections in Gibraltar?

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
    I like it's turning radius!!

    http://www.marinelink.com/news/keellaid-austal-navys367345.aspx
    "Guys, I want it to have enough firepower to smack a small state into next Tuesday, a shit load of offensive weaponry, anti-submarine capability, state of the art defensive stuff that can knock out an incoming gnat. But mostly I want it to be able to do donuts...."
    :)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569
    DavidL said:



    Stodge, it seems to me that your question is somewhat old fashioned and from a different age. In the olden days parties were vaguely democratic (even Labour). They had conferences and votes which determined policy in a range of areas. That policy might be opposed by the leadership on the basis they didn't agree or thought it would be an electoral liability.

    First the Tories and then Labour dropped all that. Newer parties like UKIP never really had it. In all of these parties the policy of the party is what the leadership thinks it should be and the democratic influence is largely restricted to appointing the leader in the first place.

    Only the Lib Dems have hung on to the concept of Conferences voting against the leadership line. It cannot be claimed to be a success. I think that time has passed.

    Does that lead to better policy? Not really. Very few politicians have the knowledge or expertise to make policy in several areas. But unity is supposed to be the key and that means what the boss says goes.

    The Greens still have policy made by conference, up to a point, though some policies were hastily jettisoned when they came under pressure in the election run-up, so i think it reflects novelty rather than long-term strategy. With Labour, I noticed at the time - 2-3 years before he left - that Tony Blair stopped saying "we" and started saying "I" about policy direction. I don't think it was even conscious, just a recognition that he was out there on his own, shouting "come on chaps". It contributed to a decline in membership - as someone I know who'd been a member for decades said, "It's not that I don't agree with the policy as that I can neither influence nor predict it - it's just what the leader happens to think at the moment". Tony was reasonably consistent, as was Maggie in later years, but with others on both sides it's been pretty hard to predict what they'll think on any particular new issue.

    That said, we don't in either major party normally have the leader quite deciding- rather, the leader makes it known which direction he wants, and colleagues in the (Shadow) Cabinet let him know how much he can get away with.

    The one area where free voting still really works is quasi-religious "conscience" voting. I voted to lower the abortion limit to 22 weeks, after brooding on the evidence and deciding, rightly or wrongly, that the foetus could feel pain at that point. Nobody ever pressured me or told me off for it, even the hard-core pro-choicers on the one hand or the hard-core pro-lifers on the other. Mild regret coupled with respect of right to my opinion was the order of the day - rather to my surprise.

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Musing on the art or otherwise of leadership, I'm thinking about the extent to which the personal views of the leader of a party and the policy position of that party should be identical. In other words, do the leader's personal policies and viewpoints inform the party or does the Party expect that the leader should follow its defined line ?

    I'm not talking about a central policy plank or a key issue but something on the periphery. Let me offer an example - the Conservatives and foxhunting.

    Could one be a Conservative member and be opposed to foxhunting ? Clearly, yes. Could one be a Member, be opposed to foxhunting and accept a party line that says MPs should have a free vote on a bill to restore foxhunting ? Clearly, yes. Could one be a Conservative member, be opposed to foxhunting and support the Party if the view was there would be a 3-line whip to support a bill aimed at legalising foxhunting ? That would depend on how important to the individual as a matter of moral conscience foxhunting was.

    Now, that's apply to the same questions to the Party leader - could the party leader be opposed to foxhunting if the party line was to allow a free vote ? Yes, why not ? As an MP, the leader has a right to a free vote and will vote as he or she regards a matter of conscience.

    Could the Party leader, even if he or she personally from a point of moral principle, opposed foxhunting, stand up and support the Party if the overwhelming view was that MPs should be forced to support foxhunting in the Commons ?

    I'm interested to know what other people think and it's not a debate about foxhunting or even about the Conservatives but how parties work, how party leaders can and should influence the debate and at what point the Party can and should override the view of the leader ?

    Just a mild topic for a quiet Sunday afternoon and a diversion from endless wittering about the Punic Wars about which we've all heard quite enough !!

    I cannot imagine a leader could for long stay out of step with his or her party on any truly central policy plank. The leader would either have to bring the party with him or her, or the party would have to find a new leader.

    You cannot be successful with that level of dissonance at the top levels of an organization. All truly successful organizations have a solid, internally consistent culture.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Palmer, instead of seeking to alter the voting system (PR remains the work of Satan), I'd like to move to a looser, freer voting system within the Commons itself, so three line whips are a rarity. I'd even be happy considering the idea to ban political parties and instead have every candidate campaign as an independent, perhaps indicating their own key policy priorities and which men/women they'd prefer to see as Prime Minister.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited June 2015
    franklyn said:

    GeoffM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    England need to set a test match field with about 5 slips to have any hope of defending ~ 300 imo. No chance they'll defend it with a normal defensive field. Need quick wickets.

    It's amazing how much cricket has changed. A few years ago you'd be delighted making 300.
    Geoff M, any comments on the forthcoming elections in Gibraltar?

    The Gibraltar Socialist Labour Party and its leader Fabian Picardo aren't constrained by any fixed parliament dates and can pretty much call the election to suit them. There's no word on when that will be but a GSLP driving advert van thingy (what do you call them technically?) started doing the rounds last week and politiking is in the air. The GSLP won the last one against the Social Democrats (GSD) by a few hundred votes and the previous election turned on a similar number, so elections are tight here.

    Declaration: I was on the GSD candidates long-list last election. I'm not this time. I am also related to MPs on both sides of the chamber.

    The GSLP, as soon as they were elected, started spending the GSD's accumulated cash reserves on many populist projects. Most visible and expensive of these has been complete internal and external refurbishment of all of the old "council" tower blocks and a huge building scheme of new blocks that will be effectively given away to local residents - making those on the list a paper fortune overnight. To be fair these things were neglected for decades, needed doing and have got general cross-party support. But the GSLP got on with it and they will reap the electoral rewards.

    This week some blank spaces have been prepared for plaques to mark the refurbishment. As soon as the plaques are commissioned with an unveiling date on them we'll know that the election will be a fortnight or so after that. Nobody around here is subtle.

    In short - I believe that the GSLP will win and the marmite Daniel Feetham will step down as leader of the opposition GSD. Daniel's leadership has been solid and unexceptional which is a surprise because he maneuvered hard to get it in the first place. Damon Bossino is my bet to succeed him. He's dynamic, popular and very very clever.

    At the last election I persuaded the trader at Stan James (a drinking pal from the pub) to price up the election here and a couple of other bookies copied his prices. But he's moved on since then so I don't know if anyone will trade it. If they do my vote and my money will be going in different directions.

    I hope that helps, and thanks for asking.

    Edit to remove rogue apostrophe
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569

    Mr. Palmer, instead of seeking to alter the voting system (PR remains the work of Satan), I'd like to move to a looser, freer voting system within the Commons itself, so three line whips are a rarity. I'd even be happy considering the idea to ban political parties and instead have every candidate campaign as an independent, perhaps indicating their own key policy priorities and which men/women they'd prefer to see as Prime Minister.

    The problem is that these things are semi-voluntary. You simply couldn't ban political parties effectively - how do you prevent a group of "people interested in British policy" getting together and agreeing to follow a set of policies, previously known as a party manifesto? And with rare exceptions, people don't really like voting against their usual colleagues and mingling with a crowd of gloating opponents ("How nice to have you with us, dear boy, do come again").

    What I think leaders could afford to do would be to make it known that occasional dissent on matters not affecting the survival of the Government would be tolerated, rather than the current arrangement that breaking a 3-line whip on anything at all means dismissal. This already exists in subterranean form, in that people make excuses for abstention and the whips look the other way. Perhaps making only survival issues (e.g. the Budget) a 2-line whip is the way forward.

    Voters could, of course, facilitate independence by voting for it. Loads of people told me they'd vote for me if I stood as an independent, but even if they had, it would have been deceitful (since I'm a pretty loyal lefty) and would simply have split the vote from the mass of voters who simply pick a party. I think you do need the Work of Satan (aka PR) to facilitate genuine nuance of choice, as we're seeing in Denmark this week - a clear choice of two blocs, but five varieties on each side to choose from.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    Mr. Palmer, instead of seeking to alter the voting system (PR remains the work of Satan), I'd like to move to a looser, freer voting system within the Commons itself, so three line whips are a rarity. I'd even be happy considering the idea to ban political parties and instead have every candidate campaign as an independent, perhaps indicating their own key policy priorities and which men/women they'd prefer to see as Prime Minister.

    And the first group to organise would dominate. All voting is a compromise, all parties are coalitions. All politics is a compromise. What happens to your 'independent' when he/she has to compromise on his/her (see how PC I am?) key priorities. Furthermore, what happens to the nation when despite 'events' your independents stick to their 'key priories' because of high principle (ie base electoral instincts) and thus throw the nation into chaos?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    .. (see how PC I am?) ...

    I believe the currently acceptable form is "his/her/it/BruceJenner"

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Flightpath, got a mild knocking when I didn't have him/her in a post a few months ago :p

    If you're worried about my political correctness, do have a look at Sir Edric's Temple, on Amazon.

    You and Mr. Palmer may be right. But PR is loathsome, and I'd sooner stick with the status quo than move that way.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Mr. Flightpath, got a mild knocking when I didn't have him/her in a post a few months ago :p

    I find it extremely helpful when individuals pick up on that sort of thing.
    It clearly marks out their concentrated bellendery, broken-brainedness and general unworthiness of any further consideration.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243
    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
    I like it's turning radius!!

    http://www.marinelink.com/news/keellaid-austal-navys367345.aspx
    They do have guns, one 57mm gun made by BAE. Several missiles and 2 helicopters. Its a 2000 tonne frigate type ship optimised for coastal waters. The gun is in fact very sophisticated.
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    I have to agree with John Rentoul regarding his article in The Independent about the poor calibre of Labour's new intake of MPs'.

    I watch the Parliament channel most days and I have to say they are a pretty uninspiring lot, especially the ladies. All I've heard is 'savage cuts' and 'childcare'. If women want to be taken seriously for the top jobs, then (and this applies to all parties) they have to start discussing and taking part in defence and foreign affairs questions.

    I think Labour's all women short-lists are now having a detrimental impact on the quality of female MPs'. This also applies to the 'Union stooges.'

    Unless my eyes are failing me, I could have sworn I saw a female Labour MP wearing flip flops in the HoC!!

    Although not a Labour supporter as you can guess, I think Parliament is much better for having a strong opposition and I don't see this happening anytime soon.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    Mr. Flightpath, got a mild knocking when I didn't have him/her in a post a few months ago :p

    If you're worried about my political correctness, do have a look at Sir Edric's Temple, on Amazon.

    You and Mr. Palmer may be right. But PR is loathsome, and I'd sooner stick with the status quo than move that way.

    I do agree with you about PR being loathsome. Way out on the 'bellendery' scale of loathsomeness in fact.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited June 2015

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
    I like it's turning radius!!

    http://www.marinelink.com/news/keellaid-austal-navys367345.aspx
    They do have guns, one 57mm gun made by BAE. Several missiles and 2 helicopters. Its a 2000 tonne frigate type ship optimised for coastal waters. The gun is in fact very sophisticated.
    What a shame its named after such a thoroughly unpleasant person though.
    The naming is a trolling exercise by the Obama administration.
    After they managed to get the "USS John P Murtha" past true patriots they're just taking the piss with this one.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    For any racing punters or horse lovers out there - C4 had a superb docu about Frankel and Henry Cecil yesterday. I cried my eyes out and smiled too.

    You can find it on 4OD I hope. Well worth 60mins investment.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    GeoffM said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
    I like it's turning radius!!

    http://www.marinelink.com/news/keellaid-austal-navys367345.aspx
    They do have guns, one 57mm gun made by BAE. Several missiles and 2 helicopters. Its a 2000 tonne frigate type ship optimised for coastal waters. The gun is in fact very sophisticated.
    What a shame its named after such a thoroughly unpleasant person though.
    The naming is a trolling exercise by the Obama administration.
    After they managed to get the "USS John P Murtha" past true patriots they're just taking the piss with this one.
    @Flightpath Each of the Independence series will be variants. The Independence has one gun. I think it is planned for the USS GG to have none.

    http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/06/uss-gabrielle-giffords-christened-gun-free/
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    MTimT said:

    GeoffM said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Plato said:

    Boo! I got a 403 Forbidden screen

    MTimT said:

    @Plato re the photo of the sailing warship and the modern destroyer. Today USS Gabrielle Giffords was christened - the first warship with no guns:

    http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LCS-4_JHSV-3_RIMPAC_2014_Austal_lg.jpg

    Posted a new pic, of sister ship with one gun. Google USS Gabrielle Giffords images, and you'll get a very good selection of the new US littoral combat vessels, all of which break the mold of what we thought of as warships as kids.
    I like it's turning radius!!

    http://www.marinelink.com/news/keellaid-austal-navys367345.aspx
    They do have guns, one 57mm gun made by BAE. Several missiles and 2 helicopters. Its a 2000 tonne frigate type ship optimised for coastal waters. The gun is in fact very sophisticated.
    What a shame its named after such a thoroughly unpleasant person though.
    The naming is a trolling exercise by the Obama administration.
    After they managed to get the "USS John P Murtha" past true patriots they're just taking the piss with this one.
    @Flightpath Each of the Independence series will be variants. The Independence has one gun. I think it is planned for the USS GG to have none.

    http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/06/uss-gabrielle-giffords-christened-gun-free/

    OK, reading the article in full, it is clearly an Onion-type article.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. T, could be worse. At least you didn't take The Onion* seriously, then refer to it during a TV defence of your conduct [as Jack Warner did].

    *SNPers may be amused to hear I typoed that as 'Union' originally :p
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993


    The one area where free voting still really works is quasi-religious "conscience" voting. I voted to lower the abortion limit to 22 weeks, after brooding on the evidence and deciding, rightly or wrongly, that the foetus could feel pain at that point. Nobody ever pressured me or told me off for it, even the hard-core pro-choicers on the one hand or the hard-core pro-lifers on the other. Mild regret coupled with respect of right to my opinion was the order of the day - rather to my surprise.

    I was really thinking about the "conscience" issue and wondering the extent to which, on a such issue, the leader's personal view, if stated, carried much weight.

    To take abortion as an issue, if the Conservative Party (or indeed Labour though I consider it less likely) elected a leader whose view on abortion was discovered, after the election, to be out of step with the party majority, what (if any) difference would it make ?

    If said leader, while remaining firm to their personal view, continued to follow the party line, there would be no issue and, as a member, I wouldn't have a problem. If the leader instigated a debate within the party with a view to changing the policy, would that be a concern ?

    DavidL's point is true but depressing. It seems strange that party leaders espouse democracy for others (particularly in countries ruled by despots) but often lead their parties in a quasi-despotic way. For example, why is the Prime Minister so concerned about Ministers on both sides of the EU Referendum argument ? The short answer may be that he wants all his Ministers to publicly support HIS re-negotiated terms and collective responsibility as a meme of Cabinet Government implies the Prime Minister should be able to expect that from his Cabinet.

    Is it therefore impossible for a Cabinet Minister to remain in post if not supporting the Prime Minister's re-negotiated terms ? You'd have to think so. The problem is unlike 1975 it's not a free vote on a simple proposition.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    New thread.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    New thread.

    The new thread has been there for over an hour now but it just doesn't seem to be getting much traction!
Sign In or Register to comment.