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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If indeed nearly half of all LAB members live in London tha

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited June 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If indeed nearly half of all LAB members live in London that doesn’t bode well for the Burnham campaign

Last September UKIP was making great play of the London dominance of LAB by asserting that 48% of the party’s members lived there. Whether that’s accurate or not or whether it still holds good is hard to day but there’s little doubt that the red team is particularly strong in the capital.

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    Tricky GCSE maths exam sees pupils take to Twitter

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33017299

    Arhhh dee dums, they got a hardy wardy question in their maths GCSE, one that wasn't just a recycled question off a previous years paper...

    God help them in the real world....so we need to come up with a novel solution to this problem as that is how we make money in the knowledge economy...what there isn't a solution from last year I can just copy?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2015
    "48% of Labour Party members are from London."

    Wonder what percentage are London and work in public sector / charity sector? Long gone are the days of Labour being the national party of the "working man".
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The 48% figure is probably a combination of 'London' and 'home counties' - the true figure may be nearer 20%:

    https://fullfact.org/news/do_48_of_labour_members_live_in_london-35442

    Nonetheless, what London Labour thinks is clearly very important, to the Labour party, in any case, even if not to the country.......
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    Just catching up on PMQs. Have the microphones been changed in the chamber, as well as the cameras? It sounds a lot louder than usual.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited June 2015
    RobD said:

    Just catching up on PMQs. Have the microphones been changed in the chamber, as well as the cameras? It sounds a lot louder than usual.

    Subtle move from bercow yo try to get them to be quieter ?not that I think he cares, it makes him look authoritative telling them to pipe down, but it would be funny to think they adjusted the mics so they needed to quieten lest they irritate people
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Just catching up on PMQs. Have the microphones been changed in the chamber, as well as the cameras? It sounds a lot louder than usual.

    Subtle move from bercow yo try to get them to be quieter ?
    He's gone mad with power!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited June 2015

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659

    Tricky GCSE maths exam sees pupils take to Twitter

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33017299

    Arhhh dee dums, they got a hardy wardy question in their maths GCSE, one that wasn't just a recycled question off a previous years paper...

    God help them in the real world....so we need to come up with a novel solution to this problem as that is how we make money in the knowledge economy...what there isn't a solution from last year I can just copy?

    n= 10

    30 seconds.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
  • Tricky GCSE maths exam sees pupils take to Twitter

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33017299

    Arhhh dee dums, they got a hardy wardy question in their maths GCSE, one that wasn't just a recycled question off a previous years paper...

    God help them in the real world....so we need to come up with a novel solution to this problem as that is how we make money in the knowledge economy...what there isn't a solution from last year I can just copy?

    n= 10

    30 seconds.
    Finding the solution to that equation is indeed trivial, and if you already know what n is, confirming it satisfies the equation is even easier.

    However, according to the BBC, that's not what they were asked to do. They were asked to prove that the equation is true. which is typically slightly harder, though I'd have to see the whole question to judge how much harder.

    Basically though, it's the difference between 'prove the sum of the first n numbers is n(n+1)/2', and 'The sum of the first n numbers is n(n+1)/2. John places a bet every weekday, and each time wins £1 more than the day before. On the first day, he won £1. How many days will it take for his total winnings to exceed £100?'

    Which question would you rather tackle?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    There is no way back for Labour now, I think.

    The complete and utter dominance of the Islington Mafia has gutted the party and with the level of dominance they now have over the party hierarchy, I see little chance of their influence and control receding.

    Of course just what sort of party they have left under their hegemony is more open to question. Taking working class voters for granted has already failed in Scotland, if it continues its downward spiral in Wales and Northern England, all they will have is a London based rump of champagne socialists with little chance of relevance in the wider political arena.

    I don't see how there can be any challenge to Tory dominance in England over the next 20 years. I'm not sure there is any black swan large enough to propel Labour back to relevance, certainly not while it continues to shed support in its old core areas.

    The biggest question is where the challenge to the Tories can come from. If UKIP was a party of the left, it would be in a very strong position to replace Labour in the way that Labour replaced the Liberals in the 1920s. The Greens are still too loony and too green to be the successors to the centre left positioning while the Liberals are extinct.

    I can't game any scenario where the Tories are significantly challenged. Even the inevitable loss of Scotland won't change their chance of winning in 2020 and beyond.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    What surprised me yesterday was Labour's quiescence. The government announced plans for some really hefty cuts, and I could swear that during the last parliament a Labour bod would have been on all the channels condemning (*) them.

    But yesterday's news seemed to be treated with as much heft as a lily blossom falling on rice paper. Even the continued Royal Mail sell-off seems to have been treated with a collective "meh."

    Do the Conservatives actually have an opposition at the moment?

    (*) I've just realised that no idiots can talk about the 'Con-Dem' government any more. Hurrah!
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The solution is simple. Impose Full Fiscal Autonomy on Scotland and let the Scottish Government decide if it wants to spend its budget on investment and services or continue to remit £12bn per annum for English train sets and English debt driven spending sprees.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    Dair said:

    There is no way back for Labour now, I think.

    The complete and utter dominance of the Islington Mafia has gutted the party and with the level of dominance they now have over the party hierarchy, I see little chance of their influence and control receding.

    Of course just what sort of party they have left under their hegemony is more open to question. Taking working class voters for granted has already failed in Scotland, if it continues its downward spiral in Wales and Northern England, all they will have is a London based rump of champagne socialists with little chance of relevance in the wider political arena.

    I don't see how there can be any challenge to Tory dominance in England over the next 20 years. I'm not sure there is any black swan large enough to propel Labour back to relevance, certainly not while it continues to shed support in its old core areas.

    The biggest question is where the challenge to the Tories can come from. If UKIP was a party of the left, it would be in a very strong position to replace Labour in the way that Labour replaced the Liberals in the 1920s. The Greens are still too loony and too green to be the successors to the centre left positioning while the Liberals are extinct.

    I can't game any scenario where the Tories are significantly challenged. Even the inevitable loss of Scotland won't change their chance of winning in 2020 and beyond.

    I'm not sure if Labour are aware of just how bad things were in the GE. The rise in their vote in E &W masked a realweakening in their grip on the north and Wales as much of their 'improvement' was down to bigger wins in their strongholds. UKIP could do real damage and the Tories could easily get stronger in middle England. T h e party needs a new direction but they really show no signs of having the necessary conversation either with themselves or with voters.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Weird thread, premised on an obviously made-up number.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    felix said:

    Dair said:

    There is no way back for Labour now, I think.

    The complete and utter dominance of the Islington Mafia has gutted the party and with the level of dominance they now have over the party hierarchy, I see little chance of their influence and control receding.

    Of course just what sort of party they have left under their hegemony is more open to question. Taking working class voters for granted has already failed in Scotland, if it continues its downward spiral in Wales and Northern England, all they will have is a London based rump of champagne socialists with little chance of relevance in the wider political arena.

    I don't see how there can be any challenge to Tory dominance in England over the next 20 years. I'm not sure there is any black swan large enough to propel Labour back to relevance, certainly not while it continues to shed support in its old core areas.

    The biggest question is where the challenge to the Tories can come from. If UKIP was a party of the left, it would be in a very strong position to replace Labour in the way that Labour replaced the Liberals in the 1920s. The Greens are still too loony and too green to be the successors to the centre left positioning while the Liberals are extinct.

    I can't game any scenario where the Tories are significantly challenged. Even the inevitable loss of Scotland won't change their chance of winning in 2020 and beyond.

    I'm not sure if Labour are aware of just how bad things were in the GE. The rise in their vote in E &W masked a realweakening in their grip on the north and Wales as much of their 'improvement' was down to bigger wins in their strongholds. UKIP could do real damage and the Tories could easily get stronger in middle England. T h e party needs a new direction but they really show no signs of having the necessary conversation either with themselves or with voters.
    The point being that there is no chance of a new direction because the party hierarchy is now almost exclusively the Islington Mafia. I would be interested to see an analysis of just how many of Labour MPs are now Londoners dropped into safe Northern seats.

    I can see now way this will change. Even Burnham might be a northerner but he is a posh boy northerner with a decidedly middle class upbringing in the Footballer Belt.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The SNP spent £26M on gaelic signs last year - guess how many of the futile 56 speak the language ?

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    Dair said:

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The solution is simple. Impose Full Fiscal Autonomy on Scotland and let the Scottish Government decide if it wants to spend its budget on investment and services or continue to remit £12bn per annum for English train sets and English debt driven spending sprees.
    I think la Sturgeon has said that the SNP Assembly Govt are not ready for FFA yet - indeed I heard her say as much in an interview just after the election.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Dair said:

    There is no way back for Labour now, I think.

    The complete and utter dominance of the Islington Mafia has gutted the party and with the level of dominance they now have over the party hierarchy, I see little chance of their influence and control receding.

    Of course just what sort of party they have left under their hegemony is more open to question. Taking working class voters for granted has already failed in Scotland, if it continues its downward spiral in Wales and Northern England, all they will have is a London based rump of champagne socialists with little chance of relevance in the wider political arena.

    I don't see how there can be any challenge to Tory dominance in England over the next 20 years. I'm not sure there is any black swan large enough to propel Labour back to relevance, certainly not while it continues to shed support in its old core areas.

    The biggest question is where the challenge to the Tories can come from. If UKIP was a party of the left, it would be in a very strong position to replace Labour in the way that Labour replaced the Liberals in the 1920s. The Greens are still too loony and too green to be the successors to the centre left positioning while the Liberals are extinct.

    I can't game any scenario where the Tories are significantly challenged. Even the inevitable loss of Scotland won't change their chance of winning in 2020 and beyond.

    I think you grossly underestimate how politics can change. Events will happen. Perhaps a huge recession following a Eurozone explosion or a vote for us to leave? Another unpopular war?Who knows.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175

    Dair said:

    There is no way back for Labour now, I think.

    The complete and utter dominance of the Islington Mafia has gutted the party and with the level of dominance they now have over the party hierarchy, I see little chance of their influence and control receding.

    Of course just what sort of party they have left under their hegemony is more open to question. Taking working class voters for granted has already failed in Scotland, if it continues its downward spiral in Wales and Northern England, all they will have is a London based rump of champagne socialists with little chance of relevance in the wider political arena.

    I don't see how there can be any challenge to Tory dominance in England over the next 20 years. I'm not sure there is any black swan large enough to propel Labour back to relevance, certainly not while it continues to shed support in its old core areas.

    The biggest question is where the challenge to the Tories can come from. If UKIP was a party of the left, it would be in a very strong position to replace Labour in the way that Labour replaced the Liberals in the 1920s. The Greens are still too loony and too green to be the successors to the centre left positioning while the Liberals are extinct.

    I can't game any scenario where the Tories are significantly challenged. Even the inevitable loss of Scotland won't change their chance of winning in 2020 and beyond.

    I think you grossly underestimate how politics can change. Events will happen. Perhaps a huge recession following a Eurozone explosion or a vote for us to leave? Another unpopular war?Who knows.
    I see the Labour hopes are pinned on disaster saving the party. Nice.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    your humble and obedient servant

    lol
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited June 2015
    Labour's Current Shadow Cabinet going by WIki entries. Family background generally derived from parental occupation or school listed on Wiki. Feel free to correct any errors and/or fill in the Unknowns. (ignoring the Peers in cabinet)

    Harriet Harperson. Posh Londoner.
    Chris Leslie. Unknown Northerner.
    Hilary Benn. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Yvette Cooper. Posh Home Counties. Northern Seat.
    Rosie Winterton. Posh Northerner.
    Andy Burnham. Posh Northerner.
    Chuka Umunna. Posh Londoner.
    Rachel Reeves. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Tristram Hunt. Posh Titled Home Counties. Northern Seat.
    Vernon Coaker. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Emma Reynolds. Posh Midlander.
    Caroline Flint. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Angela Eagle. Working Class Northerner.
    Michael Dugger. Unknown Northerner.
    Ivan Lewis. Posh Northerner.
    Mary Creagh. Working Class Midlander.
    Ian Murray. Working Class Edinbugger.
    Owen Smith. Unknown Northerner.
    Maria Eagle. Working Class Northerner.
    Lucy Powell. Unknown Northerner.
    Jon Trickett. Unknown Northerner.
    Gloria Del Piero. Working Class Northerner.
    Shabana Mahmood. Posh Midlander.
    Chris Bryan. Posh Home Counties. Welsh Seat (was born there).
    Liz Kendall. Posh Home counties. Midlands Seat.

    So out of 25 Labour MPs in their cabinet, at least 15 are from well off backgrounds, 5 uncertain and 5 Working Class (although I'm not convinced about the Eagle twins, in fact any of them other than Murray are open to question).

    Of the 25, there are 10 from posh London/Home Counties backgrounds of which 6 are parachuted into Northern Seats, one into a safe Midlands Seat and one into a safe Welsh Seat albeit he was born in Wales but brought up in the Home Counties.

    This does not look like the profile you would excpect of a Labour Party.

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    I have been saying for sometime now that Labour are in really deep trouble..They have no front line that will hurt the Cons and their back benchers are lacking in any form of talent except for finger pointing and giving dead eyes The country certainly deserves better.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The SNP spent £26M on gaelic signs last year - guess how many of the futile 56 speak the language ?

    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045

    your humble and obedient servant

    lol

    Perhaps "Your obt. svt." would have been more appropriate. Formal, but brief. Saying that, Debretts is clear on the proper valediction.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    DavidL said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The SNP spent £26M on gaelic signs last year - guess how many of the futile 56 speak the language ?

    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?
    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Dair said:

    Labour's Current Shadow Cabinet going by WIki entries. Family background generally derived from parental occupation or school listed on Wiki. Feel free to correct any errors and/or fill in the Unknowns. (ignoring the Peers in cabinet)

    Harriet Harperson. Posh Londoner.
    (snip)

    Are you defining 'posh' as having gone to a private school? What other criteria are you using?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    DavidL said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The SNP spent £26M on gaelic signs last year - guess how many of the futile 56 speak the language ?

    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?
    Angus MacNeill is a native Gaelic speaker.

    In any case the signs are for tourists who apparently enjoy taking selfies with Gaelic signs.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    Dair said:


    In any case the signs are for tourists who apparently enjoy taking selfies with Gaelic signs.

    LOL. Worth the £26mn?... titters :D
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The SNP spent £26M on gaelic signs last year - guess how many of the futile 56 speak the language ?

    Well the 56 are certainly providing us with comic interludes. The current seat wars are just laughable.

    Perhaps Bercrow could suggest a game of musical benches, when the music stops if your butt isn't on a green bench you're out, seems the most equitable way to resolve the Nat\Lab dispute.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:


    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.
    It is an absolute certainty that the first act of a SNP Scottish Government on achieving FFA will be cuts in Corporation and Income Taxes.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    DavidL said:

    Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    George "Master Strategist" Osborne would walk over anyone in the Shadow Cabinet, surely? :D
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The SNP spent £26M on gaelic signs last year - guess how many of the futile 56 speak the language ?

    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    In any case the signs are for tourists who apparently enjoy taking selfies with Gaelic signs.
    Brilliant ! Can't think of a better way to spend the money.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:


    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.
    It is an absolute certainty that the first act of a SNP Scottish Government on achieving FFA will be cuts in Corporation and Income Taxes.
    so cut taxes, lose oil and banking revenues, increase spending.

    I can see why Edinburgh is called the Athens of the north.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    TGOHF said:


    Brilliant ! Can't think of a better way to spend the money.

    The Daily Telegraph pretending the normal budget for sign replacement is an additional spend doesn't make it anything other than a necessary cost.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Dair said:

    Labour's Current Shadow Cabinet going by WIki entries. Family background generally derived from parental occupation or school listed on Wiki. Feel free to correct any errors and/or fill in the Unknowns. (ignoring the Peers in cabinet)

    Harriet Harperson. Posh Londoner.
    Chris Leslie. Unknown Northerner.
    Hilary Benn. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Yvette Cooper. Posh Home Counties. Northern Seat.
    Rosie Winterton. Posh Northerner.
    Andy Burnham. Posh Northerner.
    Chuka Umunna. Posh Londoner.
    Rachel Reeves. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Tristram Hunt. Posh Titled Home Counties. Northern Seat.
    Vernon Coaker. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Emma Reynolds. Posh Midlander.
    Caroline Flint. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Angela Eagle. Working Class Northerner.
    Michael Dugger. Unknown Northerner.
    Ivan Lewis. Posh Northerner.
    Mary Creagh. Working Class Midlander.
    Ian Murray. Working Class Edinbugger.
    Owen Smith. Unknown Northerner.
    Maria Eagle. Working Class Northerner.
    Lucy Powell. Unknown Northerner.
    Jon Trickett. Unknown Northerner.
    Gloria Del Piero. Working Class Northerner.
    Shabana Mahmood. Posh Midlander.
    Chris Bryan. Posh Home Counties. Welsh Seat (was born there).
    Liz Kendall. Posh Home counties. Midlands Seat.

    So out of 25 Labour MPs in their cabinet, at least 15 are from well off backgrounds, 5 uncertain and 5 Working Class (although I'm not convinced about the Eagle twins, in fact any of them other than Murray are open to question).

    Of the 25, there are 10 from posh London/Home Counties backgrounds of which 6 are parachuted into Northern Seats, one into a safe Midlands Seat and one into a safe Welsh Seat albeit he was born in Wales but brought up in the Home Counties.

    This does not look like the profile you would excpect of a Labour Party.

    Liz Kendalls mum was a school teacher, her dad left school at 16, before working for the Bank of England and taking occupational qualifications. She went to a non selective school .

    Andy Burnham's father was a telephone engineer and his mum a receptionist, he went to a Catholic Comprehensive.

    Etc etc

    Only in La- La land of the SNP are those "posh backgrounds". Perhaps having a job at all makes you posh in Dairs world...

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:


    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.
    It is an absolute certainty that the first act of a SNP Scottish Government on achieving FFA will be cuts in Corporation and Income Taxes.
    I would buy tickets to watch what happens there! Osborne would undoubtedly be very happy at the new found fiscal rectitude shown by the Scots. He would of course also match any Scottish tax cuts with comparative English tax cuts.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:


    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.
    It is an absolute certainty that the first act of a SNP Scottish Government on achieving FFA will be cuts in Corporation and Income Taxes.
    so cut taxes, lose oil and banking revenues, increase spending.

    I can see why Edinburgh is called the Athens of the north.
    I do love it when PB Tories get so convoluted in their arguments that they start calling for leftists anti-economic nonsense.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    Perhaps if they did not have Westminster skimming large amounts of their cash off they would not need to worry about tax increases. George is doing a grand job of promoting the union I must say, hopefully he keeps up the smartarse sarcasm.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    DavidL said:

    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    Leslie just shows how empty Labour's economic arguments are. Really they have nothing in the pot bar spend more and name calling.

    Osborne's in for an easy ride. His main challenge will come from the right and business. It's not as if he doesn't have some major weak points in his approach, but Labour aren't the people to stick them to him.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Looks like Greek crisis may reach a head this weekend, if a deposit lock-down needs to be implemented to stop capital flight. They are refusing to pay todays IMF money - first time a developed country has failed to deliver.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    felix said:

    Dair said:

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The solution is simple. Impose Full Fiscal Autonomy on Scotland and let the Scottish Government decide if it wants to spend its budget on investment and services or continue to remit £12bn per annum for English train sets and English debt driven spending sprees.
    I think la Sturgeon has said that the SNP Assembly Govt are not ready for FFA yet - indeed I heard her say as much in an interview just after the election.
    Given Westminster is still unable to work out how to tell where tax is paid are you surprised. They are not keen in understanding where the money comes from as it will expose their robbery.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    edited June 2015
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:


    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.
    It is an absolute certainty that the first act of a SNP Scottish Government on achieving FFA will be cuts in Corporation and Income Taxes.
    so cut taxes, lose oil and banking revenues, increase spending.

    I can see why Edinburgh is called the Athens of the north.
    I do love it when PB Tories get so convoluted in their arguments that they start calling for leftists anti-economic nonsense.
    hey the SNP are the party of leftist anti-economic nonsense, I doubt you'll get too many righties promoting Eckonomics.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137

    DavidL said:

    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    Leslie just shows how empty Labour's economic arguments are. Really they have nothing in the pot bar spend more and name calling.

    Osborne's in for an easy ride. His main challenge will come from the right and business. It's not as if he doesn't have some major weak points in his approach, but Labour aren't the people to stick them to him.
    Hmm. Will we be saying Osborne has an easy ride when UK hits recession mid-term? As someone on this forum noted the other day it has been several years already since the last uk recession and with Greece and EZ about to blow up - who knows?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Looks like Greek crisis may reach a head this weekend, if a deposit lock-down needs to be implemented to stop capital flight. They are refusing to pay todays IMF money - first time a developed country has failed to deliver.

    Tsipras is speaking to Parliament at 1800 on a Friday on the issue. A good time to freeze bank accounts etc?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    arguing that the Nationalists do not have to implement the cuts in Scotland, Mr Osborne said: “The Scottish National Party in Holyrood has the power to increase taxes to increase spending.

    "They've got the power to increase income tax already, they're getting more powers next year to do so, so it is time for the SNP – when it comes to complaints about public expenditure – to put up or shut up, in my view."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11652811/George-Osborne-tells-SNP-to-put-up-or-shut-up-over-cuts.html

    Morning! Yes, the SNP need to understand the link between taxes and spending. Up until now Scotland has been responsible for spending the money but not for raising it. If they want to keep all their freebies then they have to be paid for somehow. Expect Osborne to devolve more taxes to Scotland in the next couple of years, to drive the point home.
    But its not fair!

    Scotland's population is 8.3% of total UK......and her share of the cuts 5.9%.......but thats not a point the SNP have been making......
    The SNP spent £26M on gaelic signs last year - guess how many of the futile 56 speak the language ?

    Thought you would have been home for Orangefest Harry, involved in schmoozing the public.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:


    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.
    It is an absolute certainty that the first act of a SNP Scottish Government on achieving FFA will be cuts in Corporation and Income Taxes.
    so cut taxes, lose oil and banking revenues, increase spending.

    I can see why Edinburgh is called the Athens of the north.
    I do love it when PB Tories get so convoluted in their arguments that they start calling for leftists anti-economic nonsense.
    hey the SNP are the party of leftist anti-economic nonsense, I doubt you'll get too many righties promoting Eckonomics.
    The SNP's record is perfectly reasonable and pro-market. Unlike the Tories with their hard left socialist policies like Right to Buy which they now want to expand by Nationalising the property stock of Housing Associations.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:


    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.
    It is an absolute certainty that the first act of a SNP Scottish Government on achieving FFA will be cuts in Corporation and Income Taxes.
    I would buy tickets to watch what happens there! Osborne would undoubtedly be very happy at the new found fiscal rectitude shown by the Scots. He would of course also match any Scottish tax cuts with comparative English tax cuts.
    Even funnier would be a Brexit.

    Scotland seeking to join the EU so it could shove up corporate taxes to commonise with France and Germany while rUK lowers threshholds.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    RobD said:

    Dair said:


    In any case the signs are for tourists who apparently enjoy taking selfies with Gaelic signs.

    LOL. Worth the £26mn?... titters :D
    Paid for themselves several times over, lots of green cheese on here today I see. Southern jessies upset that they have nothing to put on signs and angry that others have some historical background.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:


    Blimey, another maths question? Zero?

    Give that chap a deep fried mars bar. Also the Scottish govt underspent by £444M last year - so £179M of cuts wont register.

    Still the Scottish economy is diverging away from the rUk - tax cuts not raises are what are required - but not in the SNP's DNA to shrink the state.
    It is an absolute certainty that the first act of a SNP Scottish Government on achieving FFA will be cuts in Corporation and Income Taxes.
    so cut taxes, lose oil and banking revenues, increase spending.

    I can see why Edinburgh is called the Athens of the north.
    I do love it when PB Tories get so convoluted in their arguments that they start calling for leftists anti-economic nonsense.
    hey the SNP are the party of leftist anti-economic nonsense, I doubt you'll get too many righties promoting Eckonomics.
    The SNP's record is perfectly reasonable and pro-market. Unlike the Tories with their hard left socialist policies like Right to Buy which they now want to expand by Nationalising the property stock of Housing Associations.
    LOL the SNP has no real record on running an economy. Holyrood manages a budget, it doesn't run an economy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:


    In any case the signs are for tourists who apparently enjoy taking selfies with Gaelic signs.

    LOL. Worth the £26mn?... titters :D
    Paid for themselves several times over, lots of green cheese on here today I see. Southern jessies upset that they have nothing to put on signs and angry that others have some historical background.
    Don't worry, us PB Tories will be privately funding a series of new signposts highlighting the South's premier turnip farms, for your pleasure. Not a penny of public money wasted!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    DavidL said:

    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    Leslie just shows how empty Labour's economic arguments are. Really they have nothing in the pot bar spend more and name calling.

    Osborne's in for an easy ride. His main challenge will come from the right and business. It's not as if he doesn't have some major weak points in his approach, but Labour aren't the people to stick them to him.
    Hmm. Will we be saying Osborne has an easy ride when UK hits recession mid-term? As someone on this forum noted the other day it has been several years already since the last uk recession and with Greece and EZ about to blow up - who knows?
    Not being an Osborne fan, I have little confidence he'll handle another crisis any better than the last, his reaction to the 2011 crisis was useless.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    DavidL said:

    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    Leslie just shows how empty Labour's economic arguments are. Really they have nothing in the pot bar spend more and name calling.

    Osborne's in for an easy ride. His main challenge will come from the right and business. It's not as if he doesn't have some major weak points in his approach, but Labour aren't the people to stick them to him.
    Hmm. Will we be saying Osborne has an easy ride when UK hits recession mid-term? As someone on this forum noted the other day it has been several years already since the last uk recession and with Greece and EZ about to blow up - who knows?
    Not being an Osborne fan, I have little confidence he'll handle another crisis any better than the last, his reaction to the 2011 crisis was useless.
    You are almost as obsessive as tim.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:


    In any case the signs are for tourists who apparently enjoy taking selfies with Gaelic signs.

    LOL. Worth the £26mn?... titters :D
    Paid for themselves several times over, lots of green cheese on here today I see. Southern jessies upset that they have nothing to put on signs and angry that others have some historical background.
    Don't worry, us PB Tories will be privately funding a series of new signposts highlighting the South's premier turnip farms, for your pleasure. Not a penny of public money wasted!
    Yes more likely they will be using Scottish money to pay for it, using a dodgy tax scheme for "Turnip Global Weather Reducing Plantations" subsidy which George will give his blessing to.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    DavidL said:

    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    Leslie just shows how empty Labour's economic arguments are. Really they have nothing in the pot bar spend more and name calling.

    Osborne's in for an easy ride. His main challenge will come from the right and business. It's not as if he doesn't have some major weak points in his approach, but Labour aren't the people to stick them to him.
    Hmm. Will we be saying Osborne has an easy ride when UK hits recession mid-term? As someone on this forum noted the other day it has been several years already since the last uk recession and with Greece and EZ about to blow up - who knows?
    Not being an Osborne fan, I have little confidence he'll handle another crisis any better than the last, his reaction to the 2011 crisis was useless.
    You are almost as obsessive as tim.
    I'll wear the badge with pride.

    How's that balance of payments deficit going ?

    You know, the one the tory party animals hope no-one notices.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: practice starts at 3pm and 7pm today. In Canada, huzzah, which means most stuff happens in the evening.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    The mouse that squeaked , LOL.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    Dair said:


    In any case the signs are for tourists who apparently enjoy taking selfies with Gaelic signs.

    LOL. Worth the £26mn?... titters :D
    Paid for themselves several times over, lots of green cheese on here today I see. Southern jessies upset that they have nothing to put on signs and angry that others have some historical background.
    Don't worry, us PB Tories will be privately funding a series of new signposts highlighting the South's premier turnip farms, for your pleasure. Not a penny of public money wasted!
    "Pub and restaurant closed due to puritanical tyranny from Holyrood 200yds on left"
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    Yes, the Pendalinos, Voagers, Class 91s and HSTs could stop at Carlisle and Berwick. Then the passengers could detrain and wait for a local service - funded by Edinburgh - to take them the rest of the way.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Science: when data disagrees with you, it's the data that's wrong, damn it:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33006179

    The pause in global warming's wrong because it conflicts with the theory. Said before that some remind me of the Church a millennium ago, claiming the sun orbited the Earth.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    tlg86 said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    Yes, the Pendalinos, Voagers, Class 91s and HSTs could stop at Carlisle and Berwick. Then the passengers could detrain and wait for a local service - funded by Edinburgh - to take them the rest of the way.
    based on the performance of the Edinburgh tram, that could be quite a wait.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    It is going to be an interesting budget from the master strategist. SNP austerity cuts or SNP tax rises or both would provide some entertainment in the run up to the Holyrood elections. Fiscal autonomy incoming...
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    It is going to be an interesting budget from the master strategist. SNP austerity cuts or SNP tax rises or both would provide some entertainment in the run up to the Holyrood elections. Fiscal autonomy incoming...
    AND fiscal realities. Currently the SNP are on a high with promises of motherhood and apple pie. Reality will dawn soon enough.. Then it will be time for the popcorn.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    I do enjoy pb threads when they align with my own betting position - Yvette for LotO!

    Tories = the new SNP?


    Lord Ashcroft
    @LordAshcroft
    Interesting local Con gain from UKIP Wisbech South (Cams) result CON 63.8% (+32.4) UKIP 18.6% (-19.6) LAB 13.7% (-2.7) LDEM 3.8% (-10.1)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    It is going to be an interesting budget from the master strategist. SNP austerity cuts or SNP tax rises or both would provide some entertainment in the run up to the Holyrood elections. Fiscal autonomy incoming...
    AND fiscal realities. Currently the SNP are on a high with promises of motherhood and apple pie. Reality will dawn soon enough.. Then it will be time for the popcorn.
    The Syrizia of the north...
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    There's no inconsistency.

    The SNP want FFA. But for the best possible outcome, they want it to be imposed on Scotland because Osborne, despite knowing FFA will end the Union, is facing utterly insurmountable pressure from his backbenches and the Tory press to force FFA on Scotland.

    The last thing the SNP want to do, at this point, is to sound keen on FFA. The less keen they sound, the better the negotiations will go.

    I suspect most of the Loyalists do actually know this because the current fiscal framework, especially on the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland. Or maybe not and it is genuine ignorance on your part.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    You want more fiscal powers but the splitters are too feart to use the ones they have.

    A nice wee tax cut would boost business and Scotland - get on with it !
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    It is going to be an interesting budget from the master strategist. SNP austerity cuts or SNP tax rises or both would provide some entertainment in the run up to the Holyrood elections. Fiscal autonomy incoming...
    AND fiscal realities. Currently the SNP are on a high with promises of motherhood and apple pie. Reality will dawn soon enough.. Then it will be time for the popcorn.
    The Syrizia of the north...
    The old saying about Edinburgh being 'The Athens of the North' becomes truer by the day.....
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569
    London Labour is much more politically intense than my experience of the Midlands. In general I'd expect that to benefit the candidates with the most distinctive political profile (Kendall, Corbyn, though Corbyn won't win in the end). However, Cooper is the best known to party veterans and will benefit from that if members are still unsure (as a great many are at the moment) when it comes to voting.

    Maths - the curious thing about the sweets question is the irrelevant information. If that's part of the curriculum ("learn to ignore irrelevant information") then it's a good thing, otherwise rather unfair. In general I found applied maths questions annoying because they added a layer of non-mathematical stuff (apples? oranges? sweets? trains?) that you had to work out on top of the maths, sometimes with the question starting from a different cultural basis, like crosswords which assume that you'll know the Bible and Dickens and set the clues accordingly. (It was actually a significant reason why my PhD was in theoretical maths.)
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited June 2015

    DavidL said:

    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    Leslie just shows how empty Labour's economic arguments are. Really they have nothing in the pot bar spend more and name calling.

    Osborne's in for an easy ride. His main challenge will come from the right and business. It's not as if he doesn't have some major weak points in his approach, but Labour aren't the people to stick them to him.
    Leslie has no bottom as the saying goes I think. I've always thought he looks and comes over as a breakfast tv presenter with similar levels of insight when interviewed in his former role. Hard to imagine his elevation will have changed this.

    I seem to recall a total lack of detail for the mansion tax when interviewed by Neil in the election campaign despite his then role.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    There's no inconsistency.

    The SNP want FFA. But for the best possible outcome, they want it to be imposed on Scotland because Osborne, despite knowing FFA will end the Union, is facing utterly insurmountable pressure from his backbenches and the Tory press to force FFA on Scotland.

    The last thing the SNP want to do, at this point, is to sound keen on FFA. The less keen they sound, the better the negotiations will go.

    I suspect most of the Loyalists do actually know this because the current fiscal framework, especially on the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland. Or maybe not and it is genuine ignorance on your part.
    Hey why should we worry, in your own words you want to keep sending us all that oil money so we'll take it.

    Fools and their money ........
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Looks like Greek crisis may reach a head this weekend, if a deposit lock-down needs to be implemented to stop capital flight. They are refusing to pay todays IMF money - first time a developed country has failed to deliver.

    Tsipras is speaking to Parliament at 1800 on a Friday on the issue. A good time to freeze bank accounts etc?
    If there were a time to do it, 18:00 on a Friday would be that time. Bank accounts frozen over the weekend and New Drachma introduced from Monday morning?
    *gets popcorn*
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    The mouse that squeaked... That Scot certainly squeaked .. it was coming from his nether regions.. If you want more dosh then take over the biz..put up or shut up.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    DavidL said:

    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    Leslie just shows how empty Labour's economic arguments are. Really they have nothing in the pot bar spend more and name calling.

    Osborne's in for an easy ride. His main challenge will come from the right and business. It's not as if he doesn't have some major weak points in his approach, but Labour aren't the people to stick them to him.
    Leslie has no bottom as the saying goes I think. I've always thought he looks and comes over as a breakfast tv presenter with similar levels of insight when interviewed in his former role. Hard to imagine his elevation will have changed this.
    "Leslie has no bottom"

    that would mean he's full of shit; I can go with that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Sandpit, hard for me to take that credibly, given this is episode 371 of a tedious soap opera. It might happen, but "Tonight, Alexis calls Angela a slag, and reveals he's been having an affair with Vladimir" is hard to take seriously.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Dair said:

    Labour's Current Shadow Cabinet going by WIki entries. Family background generally derived from parental occupation or school listed on Wiki. Feel free to correct any errors and/or fill in the Unknowns. (ignoring the Peers in cabinet)

    Harriet Harperson. Posh Londoner.
    Chris Leslie. Unknown Northerner.
    Hilary Benn. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Yvette Cooper. Posh Home Counties. Northern Seat.
    Rosie Winterton. Posh Northerner.
    Andy Burnham. Posh Northerner.
    Chuka Umunna. Posh Londoner.
    Rachel Reeves. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Tristram Hunt. Posh Titled Home Counties. Northern Seat.
    Vernon Coaker. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Emma Reynolds. Posh Midlander.
    Caroline Flint. Posh Londoner. Northern Seat.
    Angela Eagle. Working Class Northerner.
    Michael Dugger. Unknown Northerner.
    Ivan Lewis. Posh Northerner.
    Mary Creagh. Working Class Midlander.
    Ian Murray. Working Class Edinbugger.
    Owen Smith. Unknown Northerner.
    Maria Eagle. Working Class Northerner.
    Lucy Powell. Unknown Northerner.
    Jon Trickett. Unknown Northerner.
    Gloria Del Piero. Working Class Northerner.
    Shabana Mahmood. Posh Midlander.
    Chris Bryan. Posh Home Counties. Welsh Seat (was born there).
    Liz Kendall. Posh Home counties. Midlands Seat.

    So out of 25 Labour MPs in their cabinet, at least 15 are from well off backgrounds, 5 uncertain and 5 Working Class (although I'm not convinced about the Eagle twins, in fact any of them other than Murray are open to question).

    Of the 25, there are 10 from posh London/Home Counties backgrounds of which 6 are parachuted into Northern Seats, one into a safe Midlands Seat and one into a safe Welsh Seat albeit he was born in Wales but brought up in the Home Counties.

    This does not look like the profile you would excpect of a Labour Party.

    Liz Kendalls mum was a school teacher, her dad left school at 16, before working for the Bank of England and taking occupational qualifications. She went to a non selective school .

    Andy Burnham's father was a telephone engineer and his mum a receptionist, he went to a Catholic Comprehensive.

    Etc etc

    Only in La- La land of the SNP are those "posh backgrounds". Perhaps having a job at all makes you posh in Dairs world...

    Aye, if you mammie didnt force feed you deep fried mars bars, and your daddie didnt spend his giro on a bottle of buckie to sup on a park bench, you're posh.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    There's no inconsistency.

    The SNP want FFA. But for the best possible outcome, they want it to be imposed on Scotland because Osborne, despite knowing FFA will end the Union, is facing utterly insurmountable pressure from his backbenches and the Tory press to force FFA on Scotland.

    The last thing the SNP want to do, at this point, is to sound keen on FFA. The less keen they sound, the better the negotiations will go.

    I suspect most of the Loyalists do actually know this because the current fiscal framework, especially on the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland. Or maybe not and it is genuine ignorance on your part.
    But the SNP have always wanted more powers for Scotland. Until now. They have been outplayed by Osborne here and whether they like it or not there will be Scottish tax rises or Scottish spending cuts coming that can't be blamed on the English.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland.
    So we should build motorways and train lines where fewer people would use them?

    Because its 'fair'?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland.
    So we should build motorways and train lines where fewer people would use them?

    Because its 'fair'?
    No, England should pay for English Motorways and Train Lines without expecting Scotland to subsidise them. England needs to learn to stand on her own two feet.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    There's no inconsistency.

    The SNP want FFA. But for the best possible outcome, they want it to be imposed on Scotland because Osborne, despite knowing FFA will end the Union, is facing utterly insurmountable pressure from his backbenches and the Tory press to force FFA on Scotland.

    The last thing the SNP want to do, at this point, is to sound keen on FFA. The less keen they sound, the better the negotiations will go.

    I suspect most of the Loyalists do actually know this because the current fiscal framework, especially on the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland. Or maybe not and it is genuine ignorance on your part.
    But the SNP have always wanted more powers for Scotland. Until now. They have been outplayed by Osborne here and whether they like it or not there will be Scottish tax rises or Scottish spending cuts coming that can't be blamed on the English.
    That'simply not true. If Mrs McTavish loses an earring it is all the fault of the English...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Mr. Sandpit, hard for me to take that credibly, given this is episode 371 of a tedious soap opera. It might happen, but "Tonight, Alexis calls Angela a slag, and reveals he's been having an affair with Vladimir" is hard to take seriously.

    Perhaps, but they just failed to pay the IMF back yesterday. No developed country has ever failed to pay the IMF, so there will have to be consequences - it's not something that can they can be seen to get away with as no-one would ever pay them back again!
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    England should learn to stand on its own two feet..hmm.not done too badly up till now..I promise that the 50 something million will try harder..
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Dair, and Scotland should pay for Scottish public sector pensions?

    Mr. Sandpit, a fair point [does Greece count as 'developed' now?].
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited June 2015
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland.
    So we should build motorways and train lines where fewer people would use them?

    Because its 'fair'?
    No, England should pay for English Motorways and Train Lines without expecting Scotland to subsidise them. England needs to learn to stand on her own two feet.
    But Scotland doesn't want to stand on her own two feet, to raise her own taxes and spend her own money.

    Because the English would be worse off.

    Or something.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    There's no inconsistency.

    The SNP want FFA. But for the best possible outcome, they want it to be imposed on Scotland because Osborne, despite knowing FFA will end the Union, is facing utterly insurmountable pressure from his backbenches and the Tory press to force FFA on Scotland.

    The last thing the SNP want to do, at this point, is to sound keen on FFA. The less keen they sound, the better the negotiations will go.

    I suspect most of the Loyalists do actually know this because the current fiscal framework, especially on the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland. Or maybe not and it is genuine ignorance on your part.
    FFA is going to be very had to implement largely because it is generally unknown which way funds fall. Trying to disentangle a joint bank account is going to be difficult. One thing is more or less certain, on the day of fiscal autonomy, Scotland will be neither better off than it is now or worse off (relative to the rest of the UK at that time).

    The Government will introduce various floors and ceilings in tax receipts to make the transfer neutral. As we dont have hypothicated taxation its a going to be the devil's job coming up with a settlement that is fair to both sides.

    The impact of a settlement that is disproportionately beneficial to Scotland will have little general impact on the rest of the UK, but the potential for one that is not and its consequences quite severe on the Union.

    Whether it is wildly beneficial or mildly detrimental to the finances of Scotland, you can place a bet that the SNP will claim that it isnt fair and that Tory austerity etc etc etc.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited June 2015
    John Rentoul points out why Yvette Cooper doesn't look like the right candidate:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/daily-catchup-if-youre-in-scotland-youve-taken-a-wrong-turning-on-the-route-to-labour-victory-10298710.html

    Labour can only win by taking Conservative seats. The only battle that matters is the one with the Tories. 86% of their top 100 targets (on current boundaries) are Conservative-held. 84% of their own 100 most vulnerable seats (on current boundaries) have a Conservative as the nearest challenger. Any boundary changes are not going to alter those numbers very much.

    Everything else is a distraction. Yvette Cooper is being distracted.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland.
    So we should build motorways and train lines where fewer people would use them?

    Because its 'fair'?
    No, England should pay for English Motorways and Train Lines without expecting Scotland to subsidise them.
    So Scotland should lose the subsidy of higher public spending per head because 8% of the UK's population have chosen to spread themselves over 30% of its landmass?
  • I think Cooper is most likely to win the Labour leadership. I don't think it helps their prospects for 2020 however.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland.
    So we should build motorways and train lines where fewer people would use them?

    Because its 'fair'?
    No, England should pay for English Motorways and Train Lines without expecting Scotland to subsidise them.
    So Scotland should lose the subsidy of higher public spending per head because 8% of the UK's population have chosen to spread themselves over 30% of its landmass?
    Are there any figures about where in fact Scotland spends its money? You often hear that the Barnett formula reflects Scotland's larger landmass, but is the money disproportionately spent on services to remote areas or is it in reality spent on the bulk of the population in the central belt (where the votes are)?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    George "Master Strategist" Osborne would walk over anyone in the Shadow Cabinet, surely? :D
    I think that is true but at least Balls could make a game of it.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    antifrank said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Put up or Shut up...harsh words from the usually polite Osborne..he came out of his corner fighting yesterday..put that loudmouthed Scot in his place..

    If only he had the courage of his words. Time for Osborne to let the Scottish Government decide how much money it is prepared to pay for English train sets and English fiscal extravagance. Osborne needs to put up or shut up.
    June 2014 - we can have new finance arrangements in place within 18 months

    June 2015 - FFA will take years and years

    #fearties
    It's becoming harder and harder to tell whether the Loyalist argument is based on mischief of ignorance. I still err on the side of mischief but it's becoming more difficult to continue to give Loyalists the benefit of the doubt.
    So you're basically just hoping nobody notices the inconsistencies in SNP arguments.

    I sort of get that, there are so many of them it's hard to keep up.
    the UK Infrastructure Budget is so blatantly unfair and punishing on Scotland.
    So we should build motorways and train lines where fewer people would use them?

    Because its 'fair'?
    No, England should pay for English Motorways and Train Lines without expecting Scotland to subsidise them.
    So Scotland should lose the subsidy of higher public spending per head because 8% of the UK's population have chosen to spread themselves over 30% of its landmass?
    Are there any figures about where in fact Scotland spends its money? You often hear that the Barnett formula reflects Scotland's larger landmass, but is the money disproportionately spent on services to remote areas or is it in reality spent on the bulk of the population in the central belt (where the votes are)?
    Landmass is just an excuse. Equally rural areas of England such as Cumbria or North Devon do not get higher expenditure, and in terms of disposable income per capita English cities come bottom (with Leicester the lowest in last weeks survey).
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069

    I think Cooper is most likely to win the Labour leadership. I don't think it helps their prospects for 2020 however.

    what an excellent judgement...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    DavidL said:

    I heard Chris Leslie on the radio yesterday. I know he is new in the job but dear me.

    The Treasury was "panicking" he said. Why? Because they had introduced in year cuts. The same Chancellor had made his budget in March he said (rather ignoring the Coalition).

    It was put to him that the Tories had been crystal clear during the election that they were going to cut faster and harder than anybody else and had been given a majority to do so (a rather unBBC question I thought).

    Yes in general but not these specific cuts he said. Labour supports sensible cuts but not these cuts.

    I presume this is a work in progress from someone new in the job but it rather showed how much work Labour has to do before they are going to get a hearing. Unless he has got hidden talents Osborne is going to walk all over Leslie.

    Leslie just shows how empty Labour's economic arguments are. Really they have nothing in the pot bar spend more and name calling.

    Osborne's in for an easy ride. His main challenge will come from the right and business. It's not as if he doesn't have some major weak points in his approach, but Labour aren't the people to stick them to him.
    The trickier part of his job this time around is going to be to accelerate the cuts in the deficit without bringing the economy grinding to a halt.

    I think he recognises that the deterioration in the World economy situation over the last year makes cutting the deficit more urgent. We simply cannot go into the next economic downturn with a starting point of anywhere like where we are right now.

    More cuts in current spending to allow more capital spending on infrastructure would also be welcome but there is very little money to play with.
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