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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Polling Matters Podcast: What does Labour do next?

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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Miss Plato, if Top Gear's taught us anything (and it hasn't) it's that there's nothing more sexually exciting for women than a handbrake turn. Giving a woman access to a handbrake is clearly depraved.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.''

    Indeed. I also wonder if too many young people are being funnelled into poor quality degree courses that don;t really equip them for the modern world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Accept most of the spending cuts, with the exception of things like the 'Bedroom Tax' which annoy its core, oppose any tax cuts for the rich for now but support them for the poor and middle class and back Cameron to the hilt to stay in the EU, preferably campaigning alongside him in the In campaign, one way to start shifting Tory Out voters to UKIP and divide the Tories. Finally give full independence to Scottish Labour to go its own way

    Te.
    The b
    David, you should well know that Tories are only concerned when their actions affect themselves and their chums, they deliberately introduced it to hammer poor people. Happy that they have spare houses not just a room but determined to beggar people who mostly through no choice of their own had one spare broom cupboard. You just cannot get much nastier than that.
    I just don't think ordinary politicians are that deliberately nasty. More than anything else it doesn't make sense for them to be, at some point it risks their careers to be openly vindictive, as you'll end up doing things which are unpopular and ineffective as a result (rather than one or the other, which happens through incompetence or ill judgement mostly). So I think it's safe to say that is not the actual motivations, and the ascribing of it in such terms is a major problem when the Guardian et al try it, as millions of people say 'I agree with the policy, and I don't have a spare house - so this writer must be wrong about the motivation being nasty'.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    the typical case is people who would like to work or get better work but have objective reasons why it's difficult - limited education, intermittent illness, minor convictions, or other reasons.

    FWIW, one of our big focuses as a foundation is on "improving life chances" - literacy, recividism, etc. There are so many extremely talented people who could succeed in life but for one stupid mistake or one obstacle that they can't overcome: working with grassroot organisations to unlock that has to be the way forward
    It sounds as if both you and Nick P should be supporting Liz Kendall:

    http://www.lizkendall.org/liz-kendalls-speech-at-de-montfort-university-29-may-2015/

    Benefits do not remedy child poverty, they remedy parental poverty. The better way out of Child poverty is Kendalls approach as described in the speech yesterday.
    No: Labour looks to the state as the solution in the first instance. I look to the little platoons.
    The Charles Dickens approach of a benificent millionaire helping out the poor orphan is great as far as it goes...
    Magwitch helping out Pip in Great Expectations might suggest otherwise!


    Orwell on Dickens is one of his many interesting essays:

    http://orwell.ru/library/reviews/dickens/english/e_chd

    I read the entirety of Orwell as a teenager, he shaped my ideas in many ways. His "Road to Wigan Pier" was largely about the disconnect between London intellectuals and the poor in northern towns, something that remains an issue for the Left to this day.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    I'm in the top 10% and I speak bloody awful French.

    But, your point is correct and your post is excellent. If you are not an academic you don't seem to have too many choices here.

    You either are lucky, and get an apprecticeship with a major firm, or you start your own 'white van' business.

    There don't seem to be many other options of making any real money.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Accept most of the spending cuts, with the exception of things like the 'Bedroom Tax' which annoy its core, oppose any tax cuts for the rich for now but support them for the poor and middle class and back Cameron to the hilt to stay in the EU, preferably campaigning alongside him in the In campaign, one way to start shifting Tory Out voters to UKIP and divide the Tories. Finally give full independence to Scottish Labour to go its own way

    The 'bedroom tax' is precisely the kind of distraction Labour needs to avoid being drawn into. By 2020 it will have been around for the best part of a decade and people will be used to it. Labour agreed with the principle happily enough when they introduced it for private sector tenants (many of whom would also have been their voters).

    The reason Labour kicked up a fuss when the Con-LD coalition extended and equalised the benefit's rules is the massive preponderance of middle-class articulate Labour supporters on the boards of housing associations who kicked off about it; people who carry far more weight within the Labour movement than their raw numbers would indicate.

    But overall, it's not an unpopular move: those who don't pay it see an element of fairness, those in the private sector see their discrimination being ended, and those not benefitting from it in the public sector saw people living in larger accommodation than them having to start paying for it.

    In any case, there'll be new benefit cuts to come. Labour would be much better advised to campaign on those.
    The biggest unfairness of the bedroom tax was its imposition on existing households who had made their arrangements. That has undoubtedly caused some genuine hardship and an increase in arrears for those not able to find alternative, smaller accommodation.

    But the longer it exists the less of an issue that becomes as the adjustments are painfully made. I hope lessons have been learned for the application of benefit cuts to come.
    David, you should well know that Tories are only concerned when their actions affect themselves and their chums, they deliberately introduced it to hammer poor people. Happy that they have spare houses not just a room but determined to beggar people who mostly through no choice of their own had one spare broom cupboard. You just cannot get much nastier than that.
    That paragraph contains about as much bollocks as claiming the SNP is all about closing down democratic debate.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    notme said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT benefit cuts, I can't link, but there's an interesting guest piece from a disabled woman on Archbishop Cranmer's site, detailing how she was horrified by the election result. I don't agree with her, but it wasn't the usual GMW whinge, and is worth reading.

    http://archbishopcranmer.com/an-open-letter-from-a-disabled-christian-to-conservative-voters/

    thanks. Im reading it now...
    Actually a lot of it is whinge, some of it misinforming. As soon as I see 'Bedroom Tax' I mentally vomit 'entitlement'. Much of it follows in that fashion. She makes a fair point about the independent living fund though. While it hasnt been cut it has been transferred over to local authorities. But as local authorities are having to make some pretty difficult decision regarding their social services its unlikely to be designated for its specific purpose.

    To quote her:
    "There are so many in the world who view sick and disabled people as sub-human; parasites on our economy. "

    Erm no, there arent. In fact I dont think I have ever met anyone who expresses that view.
    Some of the comments, though, seem to bear out her point. I've known people express the view that severely disabled people should be humanely put down.
    I am surprised people would express such a view in person, though i would be wary of suggesting there are 'so many' people who hold such a view as being borne out by comments on the article. On that basis, judging by YouTube and the Telegraph or whereever, we are around 90% racist, which I don't think is the case. The inclusion of 'so' in her statement is important, as it adds emphasis to the 'many' and could suggest a major proportion of society, rather than just a depressingly large if not statistically as significant group of arseholes.
    That's fair enough.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    notme said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT benefit cuts, I can't link, but there's an interesting guest piece from a disabled woman on Archbishop Cranmer's site, detailing how she was horrified by the election result. I don't agree with her, but it wasn't the usual GMW whinge, and is worth reading.

    http://archbishopcranmer.com/an-open-letter-from-a-disabled-christian-to-conservative-voters/

    thanks. Im reading it now...
    Actually a lot of it is whinge, some of it misinforming. As soon as I see 'Bedroom Tax' I mentally vomit 'entitlement'. Much of it follows in that fashion. She makes a fair point about the independent living fund though. While it hasnt been cut it has been transferred over to local authorities. But as local authorities are having to make some pretty difficult decision regarding their social services its unlikely to be designated for its specific purpose.

    To quote her:
    "There are so many in the world who view sick and disabled people as sub-human; parasites on our economy. "

    Erm no, there arent. In fact I dont think I have ever met anyone who expresses that view.
    Some of the comments, though, seem to bear out her point. I've known people express the view that severely disabled people should be humanely put down.
    But those that hold those views arent doing it due to financial reasons, just that some very profoundly disabled people have no quality of life. People who are maybe kept alive by extrodinary and sustained medical intervention but have no real cognitive ability.

    It is an area that enrages passions for those impacted. But I repeat, I have never met anyone who meets the caricature she paints.
    You do have to wonder if some severely disabled people could suddenly speak , whether they would give effusive thanks for keeping them alive for the 15 , 20 , 30 years or whatever period.
    Most people if asked would say they would want to live if so severely disabled but yet will do anything to keep other people alive etc. It is a strange anomoly that people will fight tooth and nail to stop people having a personal choice in living or not but are fanatic about making sure animals are put to sleep etc.
    Not an area that you can really pontificate on unless you have been there personally or with family etc.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Danny656 No, yougov has 60%+ of Labour voters wanting to stay in the EU, the Tories are split down the middle, it is the Tories who have most to lose to UKIP now, if Labour voters did not vote UKIP with North London intelligentsia Ed as leader they will not with northern Andy, Watford Liz, or Pontefract Yvette

    On the EU question, Cameron has to allow individuals in his party to campaign on either sides. They will anyway so it's not really any net loss. There will inevitably be a government line and so those in the No camp will be labelled rebels but if there were senior figures leading it, that would mitigate a lot of the damage UKIP might otherwise do. The trick is putting the pieces back together again afterwards but the alternative is to alienate a huge swathe of support.

    The same applies to Labour.
    Both sides should allow members and MPs to campaign on either side of the Brexit referendum (and in the Yougov 25% of LDs were Outers too). While this does tend to split a party, these sorts of splits are much harder to deal with in government than in opposition.

    The In Campaign needs most of all to get the youngsters engaged, there is a decisive majority for In in the under 40's; so high levels of engagement would be helpful. Interesting to see that in the over 65's there was a slight majority for Out, but not by much.

    Young people have a much more positive attitude to Europe, and see the advantages of freedom of movement, continent wide environmental protection, and an independent court of human rights that the government of the day cannot overrule.
    Young people have always been positive about the EU, until they get older.
    The over 40's split In/Out 38/42 and the over 60's 37/46; so it would seem that there is a fairly even split in the older age range. The 26-39 ages split 52/26 for In, a fairly decisive majority.

    If out want to win, they should contrive a campaign that disengages people (rather than riles them into voting), with as much boredom and as little passion as possible. The best chance for BOOers is a low turnout election where only older kippers vote.
    I doubt if "millions of jobs lost" shroud waving is the best way of engaging young people.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    rcs, absolutely correct , however this country is focussed totally on the 20%, self perpetuating as they run it for themselves and beggar the 80%. They would rather import the skills you speak of.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. F, not 'lost', 'at risk'.

    Clegg made good/appalling use of language on this some years ago. 'Three million jobs at risk' is technically true and sounds terrifying, but it's really the same argument as 'Ten million lives at risk' from crossing the road every day.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Accept most of the spending cuts, with the exception of things like the 'Bedroom Tax' which annoy its core, oppose any tax cuts for the rich for now but support them for the poor and middle class and back Cameron to the hilt to stay in the EU, preferably campaigning alongside him in the In campaign, one way to start shifting Tory Out voters to UKIP and divide the Tories. Finally give full independence to Scottish Labour to go its own way

    The 'bedroom tax' is precisely the kind of distraction Labour needs to avoid being drawn into. By 2020 it will have been around for the best part of a decade and people will be used to it. Labour agreed with the principle happily enough when they introduced it for private sector tenants (many of whom would also have been their voters).

    The reason Labour kicked up a fuss when the Con-LD coalition extended and equalised the benefit's rules is the massive preponderance of middle-class articulate Labour supporters on the boards of housing associations who kicked off about it; people who carry far more weight within the Labour movement than their raw numbers would indicate.

    But overall, it's not an unpopular move: those who don't pay it see an element of fairness, those in the private sector see their discrimination being ended, and those not benefitting from it in the public sector saw people living in larger accommodation than them having to start paying for it.

    In any case, there'll be new benefit cuts to come. Labour would be much better advised to campaign on those.
    The biggest unfairness of the bedroom tax was its imposition on existing households who had made their arrangements. That has undoubtedly caused some genuine hardship and an increase in arrears for those not able to find alternative, smaller accommodation.

    But the longer it exists the less of an issue that becomes as the adjustments are painfully made. I hope lessons have been learned for the application of benefit cuts to come.
    David, you should well know that Tories are only concerned when their actions affect themselves and their chums, they deliberately introduced it to hammer poor people. Happy that they have spare houses not just a room but determined to beggar people who mostly through no choice of their own had one spare broom cupboard. You just cannot get much nastier than that.
    That paragraph contains about as much bollocks as claiming the SNP is all about closing down democratic debate.....
    Too close to the truth, you still think the poor should eat cake I bet. If they only went up a few more chimneys they would not be poor.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    antifrank said:
    Very impressive antifrank. Well done!

    I must say, you've got far more energy than me. I've been taking a semi-break from blogging and pb.com since the election, and I haven't even written up my betting results yet.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243
    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    rcs, absolutely correct , however this country is focussed totally on the 20%, self perpetuating as they run it for themselves and beggar the 80%. They would rather import the skills you speak of.
    Absurd
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    malcolmg said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    notme said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT benefit cuts, I can't link, but there's an interesting guest piece from a disabled woman on Archbishop Cranmer's site, detailing how she was horrified by the election result. I don't agree with her, but it wasn't the usual GMW whinge, and is worth reading.

    http://archbishopcranmer.com/an-open-letter-from-a-disabled-christian-to-conservative-voters/

    thanks. Im reading it now...
    Actually a lot of it is whinge, some of it misinforming. As soon as I see 'Bedroom Tax' I mentally vomit 'entitlement'. Much of it follows in that fashion. She makes a fair point about the independent living fund though. While it hasnt been cut it has been transferred over to local authorities. But as local authorities are having to make some pretty difficult decision regarding their social services its unlikely to be designated for its specific purpose.

    To quote her:
    "There are so many in the world who view sick and disabled people as sub-human; parasites on our economy. "

    Erm no, there arent. In fact I dont think I have ever met anyone who expresses that view.
    Some of the comments, though, seem to bear out her point. I've known people express the view that severely disabled people should be humanely put down.
    But those that hold those views arent doing it due to financial reasons, just that some very profoundly disabled people have no quality of life. People who are maybe kept alive by extrodinary and sustained medical intervention but have no real cognitive ability.

    It is an area that enrages passions for those impacted. But I repeat, I have never met anyone who meets the caricature she paints.
    You do have to wonder if some severely disabled people could suddenly speak , whether they would give effusive thanks for keeping them alive for the 15 , 20 , 30 years or whatever period.
    Most people if asked would say they would want to live if so severely disabled but yet will do anything to keep other people alive etc. It is a strange anomoly that people will fight tooth and nail to stop people having a personal choice in living or not but are fanatic about making sure animals are put to sleep etc.
    Not an area that you can really pontificate on unless you have been there personally or with family etc.
    I can't speak for everyone, but in my experience, severely disabled people want to remain alive.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:
    Very impressive antifrank. Well done!

    I must say, you've got far more energy than me. I've been taking a semi-break from blogging and pb.com since the election, and I haven't even written up my betting results yet.
    I figured if I didn't do this now I probably never would. I'm probably going to take a semi-break now myself.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Accept most of the spending cuts, with the exception of things like the 'Bedroom Tax' which annoy its core, oppose any tax cuts for the rich for now but support them for the poor and middle class and back Cameron to the hilt to stay in the EU, preferably campaigning alongside him in the In campaign, one way to start shifting Tory Out voters to UKIP and divide the Tories. Finally give full independence to Scottish Labour to go its own way

    Te.
    The b
    that.
    I just don't think ordinary politicians are that deliberately nasty. More than anything else it doesn't make sense for them to be, at some point it risks their careers to be openly vindictive, as you'll end up doing things which are unpopular and ineffective as a result (rather than one or the other, which happens through incompetence or ill judgement mostly). So I think it's safe to say that is not the actual motivations, and the ascribing of it in such terms is a major problem when the Guardian et al try it, as millions of people say 'I agree with the policy, and I don't have a spare house - so this writer must be wrong about the motivation being nasty'.
    kle4, they may not be doing it deliberately as you say , but the fact is they think up these things from their own perspective. The Tories that enacted the bedroom tax, the very poorest of them will have at least 2 houses with many spare rooms. Yet they sat down and thought this is a great idea we will just go round all the poorest people in the country in social housing , and any of them who have any kind of spare room of any size and for any reason , we will make them pay extra for that out of their benefits. That will make them jolly well look for a smaller house and cut benefits costs or they will pay for it.
    Can you say to me that a rational , sensible , intelligent person with any thoughts about anything thought that up. Rather than an uncaring person who has all these benefits and more , paid for by the same state etc and who has no feelings or understanding of people outside their limited elite status.

    Any normal person would have introduced it for the future , would have planned social house building plans around it and moved people over time when it was possible. They would not just have bludgeoned the poorest people in society up front.
    The only conclusion that you can take from it is that they are uncaring arse***es
    or they are extremely stupid or a mix of both.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Accept most of the spending cuts, with the exception of things like the 'Bedroom Tax' which annoy its core, oppose any tax cuts for the rich for now but support them for the poor and middle class and back Cameron to the hilt to stay in the EU, preferably campaigning alongside him in the In campaign, one way to start shifting Tory Out voters to UKIP and divide the Tories. Finally give full independence to Scottish Labour to go its own way

    Snips

    In any case, there'll be new benefit cuts to come. Labour would be much better advised to campaign on those.
    The biggest unfairness of the bedroom tax was its imposition on existing households who had made their arrangements. That has undoubtedly caused some genuine hardship and an increase in arrears for those not able to find alternative, smaller accommodation.

    But the longer it exists the less of an issue that becomes as the adjustments are painfully made. I hope lessons have been learned for the application of benefit cuts to come.
    David, you should well know that Tories are only concerned when their actions affect themselves and their chums, they deliberately introduced it to hammer poor people. Happy that they have spare houses not just a room but determined to beggar people who mostly through no choice of their own had one spare broom cupboard. You just cannot get much nastier than that.
    That paragraph contains about as much bollocks as claiming the SNP is all about closing down democratic debate.....
    Thank you for pointing out Mr g's problem with anyone slightly to the right of George Galloway
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The problem with Anti Frank's analysis is the inbuilt assumption that the pendulum can only swing one way, against the government.

    I'm afraid it is an analysis that went very wrong in the election that has just transpired.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    taffys said:

    The problem with Anti Frank's analysis is the inbuilt assumption that the pendulum can only swing one way, against the government.

    I'm afraid it is an analysis that went very wrong in the election that has just transpired.

    It's not a one way pendulum, as I hope I flag up more than once. But most of the most interesting scenarios are if it swings one way rather than the other, so I look at them more.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Danny656 No, yougov has 60%+ of Labour voters wanting to stay in the EU, the Tories are split down the middle, it is the Tories who have most to lose to UKIP now, if Labour voters did not vote UKIP with North London intelligentsia Ed as leader they will not with northern Andy, Watford Liz, or Pontefract Yvette

    The same applies to Labour.
    Both sides should allow members and MPs to campaign on either side of the Brexit referendum (and in the Yougov 25% of LDs were Outers too). While this does tend to split a party, these sorts of splits are much harder to deal with in government than in opposition.

    The In Campaign needs most of all to get the youngsters engaged, there is a decisive majority for In in the under 40's; so high levels of engagement would be helpful. Interesting to see that in the over 65's there was a slight majority for Out, but not by much.

    Young people have a much more positive attitude to Europe, and see the advantages of freedom of movement, continent wide environmental protection, and an independent court of human rights that the government of the day cannot overrule.
    Young people have always been positive about the EU, until they get older.
    The over 40's split In/Out 38/42 and the over 60's 37/46; so it would seem that there is a fairly even split in the older age range. The 26-39 ages split 52/26 for In, a fairly decisive majority.

    If out want to win, they should contrive a campaign that disengages people (rather than riles them into voting), with as much boredom and as little passion as possible. The best chance for BOOers is a low turnout election where only older kippers vote.
    I doubt if "millions of jobs lost" shroud waving is the best way of engaging young people.
    I agree, that tactic is more likely to work for older In voters. I think that the In team should put forward a more positive approach, stressing pan-european co operation on a wide variety of issues of social policy, equality, workers rights, human rights, environmentalism etc.

    The Better Together campaign was all too negative "too wee, too poor and too stupid" much of the time. It was the Yes campaign that was putting forward a positive and idealistic vision (albeit a contradictory and flawed one). Orwell once wrote (I paraphrase): "People will willingly go over the barricades shouting "Liberty, Fraternity, Equality!" But very rarely will shouting "a higher standard of living!""
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    notme said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT benefit cuts, I can't link, but there's an interesting guest piece from a disabled woman on Archbishop Cranmer's site, detailing how she was horrified by the election result. I don't agree with her, but it wasn't the usual GMW whinge, and is worth reading.

    http://archbishopcranmer.com/an-open-letter-from-a-disabled-christian-to-conservative-voters/

    thanks. Im reading it now...
    Actually a lot of it is whinge, some of it misinforming. As soon as I see 'Bedroom Tax' I mentally vomit 'entitlement'. Much of it follows in that fashion. She makes a fair point about the independent living fund though. While it hasnt been cut it has been transferred over to local authorities. But as local authorities are having to make some pretty difficult decision regarding their social services its unlikely to be designated for its specific purpose.

    To quote her:
    "There are so many in the world who view sick and disabled people as sub-human; parasites on our economy. "

    Erm no, there arent. In fact I dont think I have ever met anyone who expresses that view.
    Some of the comments, though, seem to bear out her point. I've known people express the view that severely disabled people should be humanely put down.
    met anyone who meets the caricature she paints.
    You do have to wonder if some severely disabled people could suddenly speak , whether they would give effusive thanks for keeping them alive for the 15 , 20 , 30 years or whatever period.
    Most people if asked would say they would want to live if so severely disabled but yet will do anything to keep other people alive etc. It is a strange anomoly that people will fight tooth and nail to stop people having a personal choice in living or not but are fanatic about making sure animals are put to sleep etc.
    Not an area that you can really pontificate on unless you have been there personally or with family etc.
    I can't speak for everyone, but in my experience, severely disabled people want to remain alive.
    How do you know, I am speaking of people who cannot speak etc. You may well be correct , I personally have no knowledge but do wonder when people have no discernable quality of life at all, do they really want to be alive. I am not saying one way or the other , just genuinely wondering.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    rcs, absolutely correct , however this country is focussed totally on the 20%, self perpetuating as they run it for themselves and beggar the 80%. They would rather import the skills you speak of.
    Absurd
    Intelligent response from you as ever.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    rcs, absolutely correct , however this country is focussed totally on the 20%, self perpetuating as they run it for themselves and beggar the 80%. They would rather import the skills you speak of.
    Absurd
    Intelligent response from you as ever.
    And succinct....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Accept most of the spending cuts, with the exception of things like the 'Bedroom Tax' which annoy its core, oppose any tax cuts for the rich for now but support them for the poor and middle class and back Cameron to the hilt to stay in the EU, preferably campaigning alongside him in the In campaign, one way to start shifting Tory Out voters to UKIP and divide the Tories. Finally give full independence to Scottish Labour to go its own way

    Snips

    In any case, there'll be new benefit cuts to come. Labour would be much better advised to campaign on those.
    The biggest unfairness of the bedroom tax was its imposition on existing households who had made their arrangements. That has undoubtedly caused some genuine hardship and an increase in arrears for those not able to find alternative, smaller accommodation.

    But the longer it exists the less of an issue that becomes as the adjustments are painfully made. I hope lessons have been learned for the application of benefit cuts to come.
    David, you should well know that Tories are only concerned when their actions affect themselves and their chums, they deliberately introduced it to hammer poor people. Happy that they have spare houses not just a room but determined to beggar people who mostly through no choice of their own had one spare broom cupboard. You just cannot get much nastier than that.
    That paragraph contains about as much bollocks as claiming the SNP is all about closing down democratic debate.....
    Thank you for pointing out Mr g's problem with anyone slightly to the right of George Galloway
    Is that the recent Tory George or the old socialist George.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    rcs, absolutely correct , however this country is focussed totally on the 20%, self perpetuating as they run it for themselves and beggar the 80%. They would rather import the skills you speak of.
    Absurd
    Intelligent response from you as ever.
    And succinct....
    and incorrect
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited May 2015
    Morning all! A good podcast. Labour will need to understand why the most hated man in their party is the one who won them three elections. If they stick with the ideological purity of the Guardian readers rather than the white van men they will be out of power for a generation.

    Edit: A bloody good set of articles by @antifrank
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    When I think back on all the things that were written up supposedly game changers.. and the bravery of Ed Miliband...Ed taking on Murdoch, COUUUUUUUUUUUUULSON (courtesy tim late of this parish) the tearing up of the Sun , the ridiculous freezing of energy prices (that would have meant people paid more)and so on and so forth, in the end none of it mattered. Ed shifted left and took hardly anyone with him
    It was the economy stupid.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Charles TYVM
    DH did so but it said there was a problem, will try later.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Ed taking on Murdoch, COUUUUUUUUUUUUULSON (courtesy tim late of this parish)

    I don't think it was news to anyone at all that tabloid journalists are scumbags. Ed's problem was that he didn't seem to realise that said scumbags would then turn on him quite spectacularly before the election, given how much he went out of his way to piss them off!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    notme said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT benefit cuts, I can't link, but there's an interesting guest piece from a disabled woman on Archbishop Cranmer's site, detailing how she was horrified by the election result. I don't agree with her, but it wasn't the usual GMW whinge, and is worth reading.

    http://archbishopcranmer.com/an-open-letter-from-a-disabled-christian-to-conservative-voters/

    thanks. Im reading it now...

    Erm no, there arent. In fact I dont think I have ever met anyone who expresses that view.
    Some of the comments, though, seem to bear out her point. I've known people express the view that severely disabled people should be humanely put down.
    met anyone who meets the caricature she paints.
    You do
    Not an area that you can really pontificate on unless you have been there personally or with family etc.
    I can't speak for everyone, but in my experience, severely disabled people want to remain alive.
    How do you know, I am speaking of people who cannot speak etc. You may well be correct , I personally have no knowledge but do wonder when people have no discernable quality of life at all, do they really want to be alive. I am not saying one way or the other , just genuinely wondering.
    I don't particularly want to Godwin the thread, but that is how Franz Stangl started:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/review/0712674470/R1QTZ4ZF8SSICV/ref=mw_dp_cr?cursor=1&sort=rd

    I have friend who had a major stroke a few years ago. He was alive in a vegetative state for about 3 months before he recovered enough to begin speaking. He is still suffering major handicaps, both mental and physical, but has never expressed the wish to die.

    This book by the former editor of French Elle who had a major stroke, and could only communicate by moving one eye is very interesting too on the subject of the "Locked in" syndrome. He still found pleasure in life, as well as many annoyances. It is very hard for us to assess anothers quality of life, and I think it a book every health care worker should read.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0007139845/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1432976902&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=the+diving+bell+and+the+butterfly&dpPl=1&dpID=51xtm7g15yL&ref=plSrch#productDescription_secondary_view_pageState_1432976696126
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    edited May 2015
    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    I suspect you're probably right about people in countries like Sweden and Germany being better educated. However, I'm not sure language is the best way of demonstrating it. For good or bad the incentive for those who speak English as a first language to learn other languages just isn't there.
  • BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    please give a clue - which tax area or cost issue?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    @tlg86

    Any tips for the cup final today? Villa are pisspoor so surely it is only a matter of how much they lose by...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    notme said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    WRT benefit cuts, I can't link, but there's an interesting guest piece from a disabled woman on Archbishop Cranmer's site, detailing how she was horrified by the election result. I don't agree with her, but it wasn't the usual GMW whinge, and is worth reading.

    http://archbishopcranmer.com/an-open-letter-from-a-disabled-christian-to-conservative-voters/

    thanks. Im reading it now...

    Erm no, there arent. In fact I dont think I have ever met anyone who expresses that view.
    Some of the comments, though, seem to bear out her point. I've known people express the view that severely disabled people should be humanely put down.
    met anyone who meets the caricature she paints.
    You do
    Not an area that you can really pontificate on unless you have been there personally or with family etc.
    I can't speak for everyone, but in my experience, severely disabled people want to remain alive.
    How do you know, I am speaking of people who cannot speak etc. You may well be correct , I personally have no knowledge but do wonder when people have no discernable quality of life at all, do they really want to be alive. I am not saying one way or the other , just genuinely wondering.
    I don't particularly want to Godwin the thread, but that is how Franz Stangl started:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/review/0712674470/R1QTZ4ZF8SSICV/ref=mw_dp_cr?cursor=1&sort=rd

    I have friend who had a major stroke a few years ago. He was alive in a vegetative state for about 3 months before he recovered enough to begin speaking. He is still suffering major handicaps, both mental and physical, but has never expressed the wish to die.

    This book by the former editor of French Elle who had a major stroke, and could only communicate by moving one eye is very interesting too on the subject of the "Locked in" syndrome. He still found pleasure in life, as well as many annoyances. It is very hard for us to assess anothers quality of life, and I think it a book every health care worker should read.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0007139845/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1432976902&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=the+diving+bell+and+the+butterfly&dpPl=1&dpID=51xtm7g15yL&ref=plSrch#productDescription_secondary_view_pageState_1432976696126
    Fox, thanks for that
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952

    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    please give a clue - which tax area or cost issue?
    I won't, because I wouldn't want to identify someone close to the process who said more than perhaps they should have.

    But do a Skinner - and reserve your seats for the event....
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Sean_F - Speaking from my experience most severely disabled people do want to live, however many end up dying prematurely due to the lack of proper care and equipment.

    I was diagnosed with MND in March 2010. As a 46 year old with three young children this was a devastating piece of news, particularly given the poor prognosis. However, I decided from the outset that I was not going to give in easily to this condition. I kept working for two years and we had lots of family holidays around the world. I became wheelchair bound in March 2012 and seriously ill during the autumn of 2012. I appeared to be in the typical end of life spiral of MND and after a period in ICU in Edinburgh during November 2012, I was transferred to my local hospice in early December 2012. By this time I was ventilated, had a feeding tube fitted and my prognosis at this point was not good – in fact I was not expected to live for more than six weeks.

    At this point Stirling Council and various parts of the NHS came together to ensure I was able to come home - to die. A comprehensive care package was quickly put into place and after spending what we all thought was my last Christmas in the hospice, I came home on 27th December 2012. Amazingly, due to the combination of good care, equipment, and physiotherapy my condition improved and has since pretty much stabilised. Now I have limited mobility but I am still able to talk normally and eat a good, albeit modified diet. I can use the computer via Eyegaze/Dragon Dictation equipment, which enables me to control my computer with my eyes and voice - this gives me full access to the internet and the ability to type.

    However, there are many MND sufferers and those with related conditions out there who through lack of resources have access to none of this, something that needs to change, and soon. Most of us don't have long - average life expectancy after diagnosis is less than two years.

    I'm campaigning to ensure everyone with MND gets the same access to care, equipment and physiotherapy:

    https://www.justgiving.com/Calum-Ferguson1/
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    please give a clue - which tax area or cost issue?
    I won't, because I wouldn't want to identify someone close to the process who said more than perhaps they should have.

    But do a Skinner - and reserve your seats for the event....
    George is the master strategist; but it is likely to be the point where much of the country starts to miss the LibDems!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited May 2015

    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    There will be something spectacular in it, that's for sure. Anyone wanting ideas look back at what the LDs crowed about keeping out of the budget in the past few years - merging of income tax and NI maybe, or a huge cut in employer NI allowing the minimum wage to go up to 8 or even 9 pounds an hour?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,596
    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    Spot on.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    malcolmg said:


    The only conclusion that you can take from it is that they are uncaring arse***es
    or they are extremely stupid or a mix of both.

    There is the third option (which doesn't necessarily rule out the other two) of lashing together a barely thought out policy with little fiscal or social benefit to tickle the love buttons of certain sections of the electorate. Talk right wing shyte and randomly wave a big stick, as advisors to several (all?) of Lab's leadership candidates might recently have said.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Wow, amazing story @calum. Thanks for sharing, obviously a very worthwhile cause.
    calum said:

    Sean_F - Speaking from my experience most severely disabled people do want to live, however many end up dying prematurely due to the lack of proper care and equipment.

    I was diagnosed with MND in March 2010. As a 46 year old with three young children this was a devastating piece of news, particularly given the poor prognosis. However, I decided from the outset that I was not going to give in easily to this condition. I kept working for two years and we had lots of family holidays around the world. I became wheelchair bound in March 2012 and seriously ill during the autumn of 2012. I appeared to be in the typical end of life spiral of MND and after a period in ICU in Edinburgh during November 2012, I was transferred to my local hospice in early December 2012. By this time I was ventilated, had a feeding tube fitted and my prognosis at this point was not good – in fact I was not expected to live for more than six weeks.

    At this point Stirling Council and various parts of the NHS came together to ensure I was able to come home - to die. A comprehensive care package was quickly put into place and after spending what we all thought was my last Christmas in the hospice, I came home on 27th December 2012. Amazingly, due to the combination of good care, equipment, and physiotherapy my condition improved and has since pretty much stabilised. Now I have limited mobility but I am still able to talk normally and eat a good, albeit modified diet. I can use the computer via Eyegaze/Dragon Dictation equipment, which enables me to control my computer with my eyes and voice - this gives me full access to the internet and the ability to type.

    However, there are many MND sufferers and those with related conditions out there who through lack of resources have access to none of this, something that needs to change, and soon. Most of us don't have long - average life expectancy after diagnosis is less than two years.

    I'm campaigning to ensure everyone with MND gets the same access to care, equipment and physiotherapy:

    https://www.justgiving.com/Calum-Ferguson1/

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    calum said:

    Sean_F - Speaking from my experience most severely disabled people do want to live, however many end up dying prematurely due to the lack of proper care and equipment.

    I was diagnosed with MND in March 2010. As a 46 year old with three young children this was a devastating piece of news, particularly given the poor prognosis. However, I decided from the outset that I was not going to give in easily to this condition. I kept working for two years and we had lots of family holidays around the world. I became wheelchair bound in March 2012 and seriously ill during the autumn of 2012. I appeared to be in the typical end of life spiral of MND and after a period in ICU in Edinburgh during November 2012, I was transferred to my local hospice in early December 2012. By this time I was ventilated, had a feeding tube fitted and my prognosis at this point was not good – in fact I was not expected to live for more than six weeks.

    At this point Stirling Council and various parts of the NHS came together to ensure I was able to come home - to die. A comprehensive care package was quickly put into place and after spending what we all thought was my last Christmas in the hospice, I came home on 27th December 2012. Amazingly, due to the combination of good care, equipment, and physiotherapy my condition improved and has since pretty much stabilised. Now I have limited mobility but I am still able to talk normally and eat a good, albeit modified diet. I can use the computer via Eyegaze/Dragon Dictation equipment, which enables me to control my computer with my eyes and voice - this gives me full access to the internet and the ability to type.

    However, there are many MND sufferers and those with related conditions out there who through lack of resources have access to none of this, something that needs to change, and soon. Most of us don't have long - average life expectancy after diagnosis is less than two years.

    I'm campaigning to ensure everyone with MND gets the same access to care, equipment and physiotherapy:

    https://www.justgiving.com/Calum-Ferguson1/

    Heartwarming story Calum, whilst personally tragic.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    @Calum

    I salute you!

    As a matter of interest have you read "the diving bell and the butterfly" that I linked to below? If so, what did you think of it?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    Osborne is an exciting Chancellor to have; no question about that.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569
    edited May 2015

    Charles said:

    the typical case is people who would like to work or get better work but have objective reasons why it's difficult - limited education, intermittent illness, minor convictions, or other reasons.

    FWIW, one of our big focuses as a foundation is on "improving life chances" - literacy, recividism, etc. There are so many extremely talented people who could succeed in life but for one stupid mistake or one obstacle that they can't overcome: working with grassroot organisations to unlock that has to be the way forward
    It sounds as if both you and Nick P should be supporting Liz Kendall:

    http://www.lizkendall.org/liz-kendalls-speech-at-de-montfort-university-29-may-2015/

    Benefits do not remedy child poverty, they remedy parental poverty. The better way out of Child poverty is Kendalls approach as described in the speech yesterday.
    Kendall? Quite possibly, but I'll wait to hear more. My current blog on this FWIW (the first two items are local issues, but it's mostly about benefits) is at http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk . Thanks to Sean Fear for the Cranmer link.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    malcolmg said:

    calum said:

    Sean_F - Speaking from my experience most severely disabled people do want to live, however many end up dying prematurely due to the lack of proper care and equipment.

    I was diagnosed with MND in March 2010. As a 46 year old with three young children this was a devastating piece of news, particularly given the poor prognosis. However, I decided from the outset that I was not going to give in easily to this condition. I kept working for two years and we had lots of family holidays around the world. I became wheelchair bound in March 2012 and seriously ill during the autumn of 2012. I appeared to be in the typical end of life spiral of MND and after a period in ICU in Edinburgh during November 2012, I was transferred to my local hospice in early December 2012. By this time I was ventilated, had a feeding tube fitted and my prognosis at this point was not good – in fact I was not expected to live for more than six weeks.

    At this point Stirling Council and various parts of the NHS came together to ensure I was able to come home - to die. A comprehensive care package was quickly put into place and after spending what we all thought was my last Christmas in the hospice, I came home on 27th December 2012. Amazingly, due to the combination of good care, equipment, and physiotherapy my condition improved and has since pretty much stabilised. Now I have limited mobility but I am still able to talk normally and eat a good, albeit modified diet. I can use the computer via Eyegaze/Dragon Dictation equipment, which enables me to control my computer with my eyes and voice - this gives me full access to the internet and the ability to type.

    However, there are many MND sufferers and those with related conditions out there who through lack of resources have access to none of this, something that needs to change, and soon. Most of us don't have long - average life expectancy after diagnosis is less than two years.

    I'm campaigning to ensure everyone with MND gets the same access to care, equipment and physiotherapy:

    https://www.justgiving.com/Calum-Ferguson1/

    Heartwarming story Calum, whilst personally tragic.
    I second that. Thanks for sharing Calum. I do hope you continue to recover.

    All the best for the future.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited May 2015
    antifrank said:

    Morning all. I've now completed my first take on the landscape for 2020.

    [snip]

    I haven't responded to these individually but agree with others that they are an excellent body of work.

    An early prediction for 2020...

    Con 342
    Lab 231
    SNP 48
    LD 5
    PC 4
    Green 2
    UKIP 0
    NI 18
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited May 2015

    Charles said:

    the typical case is people who would like to work or get better work but have objective reasons why it's difficult - limited education, intermittent illness, minor convictions, or other reasons.

    FWIW, one of our big focuses as a foundation is on "improving life chances" - literacy, recividism, etc. There are so many extremely talented people who could succeed in life but for one stupid mistake or one obstacle that they can't overcome: working with grassroot organisations to unlock that has to be the way forward
    It sounds as if both you and Nick P should be supporting Liz Kendall:

    http://www.lizkendall.org/liz-kendalls-speech-at-de-montfort-university-29-may-2015/

    Benefits do not remedy child poverty, they remedy parental poverty. The better way out of Child poverty is Kendalls approach as described in the speech yesterday.
    She's far too normal and sensible to actually get elected by Labour surely?

    It's telling that she seems to have been thinking about her run for for the leadership for quite a while, seems to have thought through a lot of what she wants to say and do if elected.
    I want to see businesses, charities, universities, volunteers and parents play a bigger role in helping to raise standards and achievement.
    This sounds awfully like Cameron's Big Society.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    Could it be the time to bin NI altogether?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    calum said:

    Sean_F - Speaking from my experience most severely disabled people do want to live, however many end up dying prematurely due to the lack of proper care and equipment.

    I was diagnosed with MND in March 2010. As a 46 year old with three young children this was a devastating piece of news, particularly given the poor prognosis. However, I decided from the outset that I was not going to give in easily to this condition. I kept working for two years and we had lots of family holidays around the world. I became wheelchair bound in March 2012 and seriously ill during the autumn of 2012. I appeared to be in the typical end of life spiral of MND and after a period in ICU in Edinburgh during November 2012, I was transferred to my local hospice in early December 2012. By this time I was ventilated, had a feeding tube fitted and my prognosis at this point was not good – in fact I was not expected to live for more than six weeks.

    At this point Stirling Council and various parts of the NHS came together to ensure I was able to come home - to die. A comprehensive care package was quickly put into place and after spending what we all thought was my last Christmas in the hospice, I came home on 27th December 2012. Amazingly, due to the combination of good care, equipment, and physiotherapy my condition improved and has since pretty much stabilised. Now I have limited mobility but I am still able to talk normally and eat a good, albeit modified diet. I can use the computer via Eyegaze/Dragon Dictation equipment, which enables me to control my computer with my eyes and voice - this gives me full access to the internet and the ability to type.

    However, there are many MND sufferers and those with related conditions out there who through lack of resources have access to none of this, something that needs to change, and soon. Most of us don't have long - average life expectancy after diagnosis is less than two years.

    I'm campaigning to ensure everyone with MND gets the same access to care, equipment and physiotherapy:

    https://www.justgiving.com/Calum-Ferguson1/

    The very best of luck for the future.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    @Felix - Top post - and one which the people with influence in the Labour party will never understand. It is harsh but one of life's lessons is that if you are not a good earner, for whatever reason, both you, and if you are selfish enough to have children, them too, will ahve more limited lifestyle choices open to you. This is not something that the government can change - and nor should it interfere with in most cases.

    I am glad the government interfered in my case. I am delighted the state offered me and millions like me an education, healthcare, benefits when needed, and so on. Before the state got involved these things were not available for most. The state changed lives for the better and enabled many - such as myself - to enjoy opportunities never available to our parents, grandparents and all those who went before. The state has done so much good and can continue to do so. What Labour needs to rethink is not the role of the state as an enabler or as a guarantor of minimum living standards, but how it happens. That's what the Labour leadership election should be about.

    If people weren't selfishly having children this country would pretty quickly die on its feet. And if employers were not selfishly depending on the state to subsidise their employees - especially in London and the south-east - welfare payments would be much lower.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    2 more MSPs confirmed retirement:

    Tricia Marwick: presiding officer, MSP for Mid Fife & Glenrothes, born in 1953, first elected to Holyrood in 1999

    Adam Ingram: currently MSP for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley, born in 1951, first elected in 1999
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited May 2015
    calum said:

    I was diagnosed with MND in March 2010.

    ...

    https://www.justgiving.com/Calum-Ferguson1/

    Wow, you have a tremendous history of beating the odds... thanks very much for sharing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    AndyJS said:

    notme said:

    FPT:
    Guardian leading on "thousands to be plunged into poverty by benefits cut".

    Is a max £23k (tax free), the take home equivalent of a salary of £29,500 now 'poverty'?

    According to www.globalrichlist.net a £29,500 income puts you in the top 0.66% of the worlds income, and the equivalent of £15.36 an hour.

    Not many people in my town earn £15 an hour.

    I'm earning less than £23k at the moment, so I'm living in poverty according to the Guardian. I would have to disagree with that assessment. Anyone for example who's just started setting up their own business would fall into this category.

    Doesn't it rather depend on where you live and the number of dependents you have? No single person is going to be getting close to £23,000 worth of welfare support a year. Almost all those affected will be families with young children - there will be some feckless parents among them and then there'll be those who are in genuine need and doing all they can to stand on their own two feet. The former will be profiled relentlessly in the Tory press, the latter will be largely ignored.

    Unfair I think. There rather has not been enough emphasis on those who do work hard and who, rightly, do not want those who don't to receive more than them for doing nothing. Labour make a big mistake here - as does the Guardian. There was a post-election interview of a young black woman in Ilford. She said: 'we don't get any benefits so Labour hasnothing for us'. When annual benefit totals exceed average wages things are badly out of kilter. If you don't get this, then you need another look at your moral compass.
    It is criminal that people get more on benefits than they can get working.
    Go on malcolm.....release your inner Tory....you know you want to! ;-)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    Could it be the time to bin NI altogether?
    It would make sense.....and perhaps its time the retired joined 'all in it together.....'
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    edited May 2015
    Mr. Calum, very glad to hear you've managed to long outlast your prognosis.

    Edited extra bit: for those brave/crazy enough to follow my tennis tips, I think the matches are all second or third in the running order. When they come about, the ATP website has a free live score tracker thingummyjig.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    malcolmg said:


    The only conclusion that you can take from it is that they are uncaring arse***es
    or they are extremely stupid or a mix of both.

    There is the third option (which doesn't necessarily rule out the other two) of lashing together a barely thought out policy with little fiscal or social benefit to tickle the love buttons of certain sections of the electorate. Talk right wing shyte and randomly wave a big stick, as advisors to several (all?) of Lab's leadership candidates might recently have said.
    TUD, most likely mix of the 3 for sure
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    AndyJS said:

    notme said:

    FPT:
    Guardian leading on "thousands to be plunged into poverty by benefits cut".

    Is a max £23k (tax free), the take home equivalent of a salary of £29,500 now 'poverty'?

    According to www.globalrichlist.net a £29,500 income puts you in the top 0.66% of the worlds income, and the equivalent of £15.36 an hour.

    Not many people in my town earn £15 an hour.

    I'm earning less than £23k at the moment, so I'm living in poverty according to the Guardian. I would have to disagree with that assessment. Anyone for example who's just started setting up their own business would fall into this category.

    Doesn't it rather depend on where you live and the number of dependents you have? No single person is going to be getting close to £23,000 worth of welfare support a year. Almost all those affected will be families with young children - there will be some feckless parents among them and then there'll be those who are in genuine need and doing all they can to stand on their own two feet. The former will be profiled relentlessly in the Tory press, the latter will be largely ignored.

    Unfair I think. There rather has not been enough emphasis on those who do work hard and who, rightly, do not want those who don't to receive more than them for doing nothing. Labour make a big mistake here - as does the Guardian. There was a post-election interview of a young black woman in Ilford. She said: 'we don't get any benefits so Labour hasnothing for us'. When annual benefit totals exceed average wages things are badly out of kilter. If you don't get this, then you need another look at your moral compass.
    It is criminal that people get more on benefits than they can get working.
    Go on malcolm.....release your inner Tory....you know you want to! ;-)
    Unfortunately I do not have a heart of stone so can never be a real Tory
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    One of the reasons we are so crap st languages in this country is that we do not get taught the English language properly. We can all speak it, of course, but how many of us understand how it works grammatically? Without that point of reference it is much, much harder to learn another language's grammatical intricacies. Most other countries in Europe that I know of spend a great deal of time on the local language, so kids have the building blocks for acquiring new ones.

    Of course, the other big reason we are crap is because everyone else speaks English. I learned Spanish by living in a part of Spain where no-one spoke English. If I'd lived on the Costas the chances are I'd still be monoglot.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Observer, I agree entirely. I learnt nothing of English grammar in English at school, but did in German and French, and a smidgen from Latin [not taught in school]. It's baffling that such things are not taught as a matter of course.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    edited May 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    On the language point Robert I think you have to accept that we live in a world where, for better or worse, English is the default world language. This means that the imperative to learn another language is far less for the anglophone world compared to the rest of the world and it can actually cause problems if you are trying to immerse yourself in another language to learn it. Working throughout Europe I have found that, even though I have learnt a couple of other languages well enough to work in them, at a multinational meeting or in a multinational workplace the default language is always English. I have even seen minutes of meetings held between French, German, Norwegian and Dutch participants with no native English speakers present and they will conduct the meeting in English because it is the one second language everyone is comfortable with.

    The incentive to learn more languages simply isn't there when so much business around the world is, by default, done in English. Being able to speak English is a marketable skill almost anywhere in the world. Being able to speak Swedish or even German is not.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    Osborne is an exciting Chancellor to have; no question about that.
    Casino , I worry about you , the last thing I can think about being excited about is squeaky whether chancellor or just chancer.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited May 2015

    BTW, I heard something last night that suggested Osborne's upcoming Budget might be a real jaw-dropper....

    Could it be the time to bin NI altogether?
    I did post a wish list of income tax and NI changes here before but I can't find it now. Basically raise the basic and 40% thresholds substantially, reduce the 45% threshold to 100k but get rid of the tapered personal allowance. Increase child benefit and make it again universal, reduce tax credits substantially to compensate. Reduce employer NI and raise minimum wage. Taken together this little lot massively simplifies the whole system, the only people that won't benefit from it will be accountants, financial advisers and DWP & HMRC bureaucrats.

    Anyway, on with the cricket.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    One of the reasons we are so crap st languages in this country is that we do not get taught the English language properly. We can all speak it, of course, but how many of us understand how it works grammatically? Without that point of reference it is much, much harder to learn another language's grammatical intricacies. Most other countries in Europe that I know of spend a great deal of time on the local language, so kids have the building blocks for acquiring new ones.

    Of course, the other big reason we are crap is because everyone else speaks English. I learned Spanish by living in a part of Spain where no-one spoke English. If I'd lived on the Costas the chances are I'd still be monoglot.

    Of all the points RCS makes, the point about English is the least compelling. As someone who knows a fair number of young people across Europe, learning it is boosted massively by two factors: (1) every conceivable piece of media is mostly in English - yes, obvious things like films and music - but also top TV shows, games - and anything online (message boards, CoD multiplayer, even porn) and (2) English has an air of rebelliousness about it. The Germans I know shout f*** at their teachers, who fail to grasp the seriousness it would have in English.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited May 2015
    "This means that the imperative to learn another language is far less for the anglophone world compared to the rest of the world."

    Let us rejoice that this is so. Learning another language is pandering to others' inadequacies. English is the language of the world.

    Eat your heart out, Froggies.

    Edit ... Lucky for us that the Septics decided on English.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    One of the reasons we are so crap st languages in this country is that we do not get taught the English language properly. We can all speak it, of course, but how many of us understand how it works grammatically? Without that point of reference it is much, much harder to learn another language's grammatical intricacies. Most other countries in Europe that I know of spend a great deal of time on the local language, so kids have the building blocks for acquiring new ones.

    Of course, the other big reason we are crap is because everyone else speaks English. I learned Spanish by living in a part of Spain where no-one spoke English. If I'd lived on the Costas the chances are I'd still be monoglot.

    Aged 11, I moved from England, where English teaching was largely about creative writing, to Atlanta GA. There the emphasis was completely different and very strict on grammar and taught in a very formal way. It greatly improved my writing by allowing me to express myself far more clearly. Free expression requires certain basic skills.

    Mind you the geography and history was taught appallingly!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    One of the reasons we are so crap st languages in this country is that we do not get taught the English language properly. We can all speak it, of course, but how many of us understand how it works grammatically? Without that point of reference it is much, much harder to learn another language's grammatical intricacies. Most other countries in Europe that I know of spend a great deal of time on the local language, so kids have the building blocks for acquiring new ones.

    Of course, the other big reason we are crap is because everyone else speaks English. I learned Spanish by living in a part of Spain where no-one spoke English. If I'd lived on the Costas the chances are I'd still be monoglot.

    This I agree with entirely. My biggest problem learning languages at school was that I didn't understand the language of language. In English we had never been taught the concepts of participles or conjugation of verbs and so when the teachers started talking about these principles in French I had no clue what on earth they meant. It was simply assumed that I would understand this and as a result I never really got the whole basis of how language works beyond the very simple nouns, adjectives, verbs and adverbs.

    Teaching English properly is very much a vital first step in then teaching other languages.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Please, please, please, could we merge in NI?

    A huge amount of work, they'd have to get on with it at the start of parliament.

    NI is not progressive enough,and most of the burden of employer's contributions fall on the employee because of the nature of the labour market.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303

    Please, please, please, could we merge in NI?

    A huge amount of work, they'd have to get on with it at the start of parliament.

    NI is not progressive enough,and most of the burden of employer's contributions fall on the employee because of the nature of the labour market.

    If this is the 'jaw dropping' move referred to earlier it would be great news.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    One of the reasons we are so crap st languages in this country is that we do not get taught the English language properly. We can all speak it, of course, but how many of us understand how it works grammatically? Without that point of reference it is much, much harder to learn another language's grammatical intricacies. Most other countries in Europe that I know of spend a great deal of time on the local language, so kids have the building blocks for acquiring new ones.

    Of course, the other big reason we are crap is because everyone else speaks English. I learned Spanish by living in a part of Spain where no-one spoke English. If I'd lived on the Costas the chances are I'd still be monoglot.

    I attended a grammar school but hardly any english grammar was taught. We were taught french, german and latin grammar however.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited May 2015
    Can someone confirm/correct my understanding of BetFair?

    If I back Horse X on Ladbrokes for £10 @ 4.5, and
    Lay Horse X on Betfair for £10 (better's stake) @ 4,

    Then if Horse X wins, I win bet 1, winning £45 inc stake, and lose bet 2, losing me £40.

    That gives me £5 (no net gain on betfair, so no commission) winnings.

    I have 10+40=£50 staked, if, say, Horse X only runs in the Autumn.

    If Horse X loses, I lose my £10 on bet 1 but get my £10 on bet 2, so I'm level.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Please, please, please, could we merge in NI?

    A huge amount of work, they'd have to get on with it at the start of parliament.

    NI is not progressive enough,and most of the burden of employer's contributions fall on the employee because of the nature of the labour market.

    If this is the 'jaw dropping' move referred to earlier it would be great news.
    I hope so, but I doubt it. Anything described as "jaw dropping" is normally a disappointment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    I see NZ have scored their runs in the Test Match at 4.7 an over. I know they wanted to make up for lost time to the rain, but wow.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Has Liz just blown it?

    @HackneyAbbott: Liz Kendall 'will back white working-class young' Not even dog whistle politics.Blatant. http://t.co/GM81PshXOO

    @IanDunt: What is the word 'white' doing here? What's she going to do? Put black kids in another room? http://t.co/EZiqwkupZp
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    kle4 said:

    I see NZ have scored their runs in the Test Match at 4.7 an over. I know they wanted to make up for lost time to the rain, but wow.

    1-0 down in the series, NZ will be aiming for the win, basically a shot to nothing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited May 2015
    I thought Diane Abbot like dog whistle politics.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. P, hmm. Where was the backlash against whites liking to divide or rule? Or today, against Sadiq Khan's ethnic minority quotas?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366

    An old work colleague of mine moved to the Dordogne when he retired and he and some other ex-pats meet on Sundays in one of the local restaurants. The waiters are not always fluent in English and one of the ex-pats (who has lived there for twenty years without knowing a word of French) gave a long sigh.

    "Look," he said. "We've been coming here for years, you'd think they'd make an effort, wouldn't you?"
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    Please, please, please, could we merge in NI?

    A huge amount of work, they'd have to get on with it at the start of parliament.

    NI is not progressive enough,and most of the burden of employer's contributions fall on the employee because of the nature of the labour market.

    There are effects on the self employed aren't there? I think NI is important because it is an 'insurance' that pays for benefits. If there are any changes I would be keeping my fingers crossed.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    calum said:

    Sean_F - Speaking from my experience most severely disabled people do want to live, however many end up dying prematurely due to the lack of proper care and equipment.

    I was diagnosed with MND in March 2010. As a 46 year old with three young children this was a devastating piece of news, particularly given the poor prognosis. However, I decided from the outset that I was not going to give in easily to this condition. I kept working for two years and we had lots of family holidays around the world. I became wheelchair bound in March 2012 and seriously ill during the autumn of 2012. I appeared to be in the typical end of life spiral of MND and after a period in ICU in Edinburgh during November 2012, I was transferred to my local hospice in early December 2012. By this time I was ventilated, had a feeding tube fitted and my prognosis at this point was not good – in fact I was not expected to live for more than six weeks.

    At this point Stirling Council and various parts of the NHS came together to ensure I was able to come home - to die. A comprehensive care package was quickly put into place and after spending what we all thought was my last Christmas in the hospice, I came home on 27th December 2012. Amazingly, due to the combination of good care, equipment, and physiotherapy my condition improved and has since pretty much stabilised. Now I have limited mobility but I am still able to talk normally and eat a good, albeit modified diet. I can use the computer via Eyegaze/Dragon Dictation equipment, which enables me to control my computer with my eyes and voice - this gives me full access to the internet and the ability to type.

    However, there are many MND sufferers and those with related conditions out there who through lack of resources have access to none of this, something that needs to change, and soon. Most of us don't have long - average life expectancy after diagnosis is less than two years.

    I'm campaigning to ensure everyone with MND gets the same access to care, equipment and physiotherapy:

    https://www.justgiving.com/Calum-Ferguson1/

    An inspiring story, Calum. Hope all goes well in the future.

    As an aside, an ex's dad died a few years back from MND. He died under a year from initial diagnosis (which was late as he tried to ignore symptoms). He was a keen scuba diver before he became ill, and essentially he just gave in to the disease and did not even try to fight it - even to the extent of not taking some drugs.

    It's great to see someone fighting it with verve.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Please, please, please, could we merge in NI?

    A huge amount of work, they'd have to get on with it at the start of parliament.

    NI is not progressive enough,and most of the burden of employer's contributions fall on the employee because of the nature of the labour market.

    There are effects on the self employed aren't there? I think NI is important because it is an 'insurance' that pays for benefits. If there are any changes I would be keeping my fingers crossed.
    NI has been on its last legs for a while as a contributory mechanism, but yes, handling the transition would be careful. NI contribs are only important for a higher rate JSA (which can) and the state pension right?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    kle4 said:

    I see NZ have scored their runs in the Test Match at 4.7 an over. I know they wanted to make up for lost time to the rain, but wow.

    Backed them earlier at 3-1, seemed a fair enough price for a team batting 1st with just over 300 runs up !
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    rcs1000 said:

    Can I just say something very briefly about education. The bulk of discussion about how to improve education in the UK seems to be about Grammar Schools. But, as a country, we don't have a problem with the top 20% of the education pyramid: we have lots of people who graduate from good universities with good skills.

    Our problem is that someone at the 50th or 80th percentile point on the education spectrum is much less trained than someone at the same point in Germany or Sweden on Korea. If you go to a MacDonalds in Sweden, the guy behind the counter will speak perfect English. The man sweeping the street will speak perfect English too. Yet virtually no-one not in the top 10% most educated in the UK will speak anything other than pretty awful French. Likewise, the German apprenticeship system produces people who leave school and vocational training at 20 with very good marketable skills.

    In a globalised world, where none of us are going to get paid more than our skills command on the world stage, perhaps we be worrying more about the skills of the 80%.

    One of the reasons we are so crap st languages in this country is that we do not get taught the English language properly. We can all speak it, of course, but how many of us understand how it works grammatically? Without that point of reference it is much, much harder to learn another language's grammatical intricacies. Most other countries in Europe that I know of spend a great deal of time on the local language, so kids have the building blocks for acquiring new ones.

    Of course, the other big reason we are crap is because everyone else speaks English. I learned Spanish by living in a part of Spain where no-one spoke English. If I'd lived on the Costas the chances are I'd still be monoglot.

    Mr. Observer, I agree entirely. I learnt nothing of English grammar in English at school, but did in German and French, and a smidgen from Latin [not taught in school]. It's baffling that such things are not taught as a matter of course.

    Same here - it was only when I started learning French & Latin that I came across such exotica as 'verbs' and 'adjectives' - but I did go to Primary School in the sixties.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited May 2015
    Interesting stat from the Cricket - since 2010, Anderson has bowled more deliveries than anyone else in Test Cricket (I believe Cook has scored more runs than anyone else in the past 10 years as well), and Broad is second with Swann in 4th despite retiring years ago. A telling stat about England being a lot more focused on Test series than other nations.

    Gods, this last wicket partnership is slaughtering this attack, it'll be 5 an over shortly. Cook might want to put Stokes in first up instead of him just to see if England can play the same way.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I've just gone all green in my LAB leader betting. This from the New Statesman worried me in relation to Yvette Cooper's chances.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/whats-wrong-yvette-coopers-campaign
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    CD13 said:


    An old work colleague of mine moved to the Dordogne when he retired and he and some other ex-pats meet on Sundays in one of the local restaurants. The waiters are not always fluent in English and one of the ex-pats (who has lived there for twenty years without knowing a word of French) gave a long sigh.

    "Look," he said. "We've been coming here for years, you'd think they'd make an effort, wouldn't you?"

    My brother has lived in the Vendee for ten years and can hardly speak a word of French.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr P,

    "Has Liz just blown it?"

    It will be the Labour party that has blown it.

    They seem to have an aversion to election winners.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243
    English has evolved through several roots and is very flexible. We are not the language of Shakespeare for nothing... He invented it as he wrote it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    I've just gone all green in my LAB leader betting. This from the New Statesman worried me in relation to Yvette Cooper's chances.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/whats-wrong-yvette-coopers-campaign

    You've laid off at ~ 7.6 o_O ?!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    I've just gone all green in my LAB leader betting. This from the New Statesman worried me in relation to Yvette Cooper's chances.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/whats-wrong-yvette-coopers-campaign

    Interesting comment about apparently MPs getting canvassed by proxies rather than Cooper personally - Come on, if there was ever a time for the face to face personal approach, this is it, there's only 230 or so.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    CD13 said:

    Mr P,

    "Has Liz just blown it?"

    It will be the Labour party that has blown it.

    They seem to have an aversion to election winners.

    The Guardian comments are as you'd expect. Kendall now being compared to Hitler.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2015
    DH (earlier) The principle remains the same, Labour should generally support the benefit cuts but fight them in a few areas to shore up its base

    Yvette Cooper was born in Inverness, went to a Hampshire comp and is MP for Pontefract
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    Please, please, please, could we merge in NI?

    A huge amount of work, they'd have to get on with it at the start of parliament.

    NI is not progressive enough,and most of the burden of employer's contributions fall on the employee because of the nature of the labour market.

    NI is a rip off as it is , just milks success
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    I've just gone all green in my LAB leader betting. This from the New Statesman worried me in relation to Yvette Cooper's chances.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/whats-wrong-yvette-coopers-campaign

    The Staggers neatly sums up my view of Cooper.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    On Europe the point is the Tories are divided, Labour strongly In, so the Tories have most to lose from a narrow In vote
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    Please, please, please, could we merge in NI?

    A huge amount of work, they'd have to get on with it at the start of parliament.

    NI is not progressive enough,and most of the burden of employer's contributions fall on the employee because of the nature of the labour market.

    There are effects on the self employed aren't there? I think NI is important because it is an 'insurance' that pays for benefits. If there are any changes I would be keeping my fingers crossed.
    NI has been on its last legs for a while as a contributory mechanism, but yes, handling the transition would be careful. NI contribs are only important for a higher rate JSA (which can) and the state pension right?
    'insurance 'is not meant to be progressive, BTW
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2015
    TWR We need stronger NI, not weaker. In most other developed countries you get a higher level of unemployment benefit if you have made more insurance contributions, like Germany, France and the Nordic countries or in some you only get unemployment benefit if you have made insurance contributions, like Spain, Italy, the US and Canada. Only Australia and NZ pay the same unemployment benefit whether you have contributed or not as we do in the UK. Payment of contributory JSA, paid regardless of savings for 6 months, and the state pension depends on NI contributions, merging NI with income tax would only be acceptable if income tax contributions were used to pay out the state pension and contributory JSA instead of NI
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