One of the assumptions made here all the time needs to be challenged. This is that the rump LD will join with the Tories in forming a coalition.
Are you guys being serious ?
The reason why the LDs are in this mess - forty years work undone - is because of this nasty coalition.
The Liberals will not go into coalition with no one - not Tory, not Labour. They will go into opposition and rely of people's short term memory.
In 2020, they will again be the Protest Party.
That would be the voters.
If they are not going to ever be in government nor opposition, then what is their point? Why bother tl recover? They are a nothing party. Or rather an everything party - everything to all men.
m to want to do so.
They have run away from government. They have rubbished their own govt all along - even though they got their referendum on PR. After all the pomposity over expenses their own leading lights made themselves laughing stocks. They will never form an opposition in their own right; they plainly cannot hack coalition. As for coalition mark 2 - that would depend on numbers. But the point of a political party is to be in government. If it is not in the LDs interest to be in government then why bother?
Well for one they didn't geries.
Why do you pretend you are not Tory ?
I have never voted Tory before is the main reason. And I've always lived in safe Tory seats, so I think I've had the opportunity to do so without tactical considerations to convince me otherwise.
Having grown up in Tory heartlands though, I cannot deny I am more instinctively wary of Labour and favourable to the Tories, though I'd like to think all the times I have defended Ed and Labour mean I am making an attempt at objectivity.
I have never experienced this. I post on last thread that the next poll will show the SNP above the YES 45% and lo and behold within seconds it appears courtesy of YouGov.
The Tory campaign is pathetic . The only purchase comes from Labour's scardy custard reaction.
It should be noted that the fieldwork was completed before Ruth Davidson's devastating tweet. So the true position is probably more like Lab 22 Con 20.
I think it's the best hope they've got of making things work. The overall messaging on the economy is the positive angle, but the Ed M is terrible stuff didn't work at all, whereas this has more potential.
On the other hand, plenty of people in England seem to like the SNP positions, enough to overcome those Lab voters so fearful of too much SNP influence they would actually switch to the Tories?
It should be noted that the fieldwork was completed before Ruth Davidson's devastating tweet. So the true position is probably more like Lab 22 Con 20.
SCUP holding up well, but still a few percent from SLAB crossover.
In view of the weakness of SLAB and SLD polling tactical voters look better to be voting Con.
But PP at 11/10 on 200+ LD lost deposits looks good. There could be 50 in Scotland alone.
I think the LD's are actually best placed to receive tactical votes as Con <--> Lab is just too much of a jump for many people.
That might help the LDs to get close or even hold on in Dunbartonshire East, Edinburgh West, Orkney & Shetland and Gordon. The Highland seats are probably too far gone (though Caithness remains gloriously unsullied by Ashcroft's forensic minions).
SCUP holding up well, but still a few percent from SLAB crossover.
In view of the weakness of SLAB and SLD polling tactical voters look better to be voting Con.
But PP at 11/10 on 200+ LD lost deposits looks good. There could be 50 in Scotland alone.
I think the LD's are actually best placed to receive tactical votes as Con <--> Lab is just too much of a jump for many people.
That might help the LDs to get close or even hold on in Dunbartonshire East, Edinburgh West, Orkney & Shetland and Gordon. The Highland seats are probably too far gone (though Caithness remains gloriously unsullied by Ashcroft's forensic minions).
Two flaws: there is little sign of that in constituency polling and secondly it seems that Tories do not vote tactically while LDs do...
"The general election will take place on May 6 and David Cameron’s Conservative Party is expected to win 327 seats versus the 223 for the present Labour Party. Sporting Index further commented that its ‘swingometer’ based on an election coverage gadget of the same name used by the BBC, is awarding 100 points if the Conservative’s win power, zero points if Labour return as the majority and 50 for a hung Parliament, currently stands at 74."
This was the SPIN spread before GE2010. So SPIN always overestimates Tory seats, hugely underestimates Labour. Not surprising since most punters with cash are Tories.
Same old story - Tories have more money than sense !
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
Irrespective of who the Scottish MPs blame, Ed is not surviving if he doesn't get into government, surely?
"The general election will take place on May 6 and David Cameron’s Conservative Party is expected to win 327 seats versus the 223 for the present Labour Party. Sporting Index further commented that its ‘swingometer’ based on an election coverage gadget of the same name used by the BBC, is awarding 100 points if the Conservative’s win power, zero points if Labour return as the majority and 50 for a hung Parliament, currently stands at 74."
This was the SPIN spread before GE2010. So SPIN always overestimates Tory seats, hugely underestimates Labour. Not surprising since most punters with cash are Tories.
Same old story - Tories have more money than sense !
I still cannot work out if there is genuine confidence behind such moves or not, or if it is purely hope based. I think they're wrong either way, but given they are only in with a chance now because of the SLAB collapse no one predicted, how they hell did they think they could win before that happened?
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
Well, they are (a) partly to blame, one assumes, and (b) hardly likely to hold much power in the party.
Mr Murphy, for example, has (according to the Sunday Herald) been taking legal advice as to whether he can stay as leader of SLAB even if he loses his MP or MSP status (which is a precondition to be elected, but whether to remain ...)
This general election would be so much more exciting if the SNP were fielding candidates as far south as York.
Give them time, even for virtual candidates. There are still 2 and a bit weeks to go. That article, in the Daily Mirror money pages, which I highlighted on last thread, is remarkable for its tone, and may well be a straw in the wind.
SCUP holding up well, but still a few percent from SLAB crossover.
In view of the weakness of SLAB and SLD polling tactical voters look better to be voting Con.
But PP at 11/10 on 200+ LD lost deposits looks good. There could be 50 in Scotland alone.
I think the LD's are actually best placed to receive tactical votes as Con <--> Lab is just too much of a jump for many people.
That might help the LDs to get close or even hold on in Dunbartonshire East, Edinburgh West, Orkney & Shetland and Gordon. The Highland seats are probably too far gone (though Caithness remains gloriously unsullied by Ashcroft's forensic minions).
I wonder how many ethnically Scottish voters there are in English marginals? Regardless of their views on the SNP my experience (small sample size) is that they are getting incredibly pissed off at a Tory message that says if Scots don't vote the right way their representatives should be treated as Parliamentary lepers.
BBC News is slaughtering the SNP with lots of negative numbers, but it's difficult to look past Peston's Austin Powers impression and Nick Robinson's sore throat.
SCUP holding up well, but still a few percent from SLAB crossover.
In view of the weakness of SLAB and SLD polling tactical voters look better to be voting Con.
But PP at 11/10 on 200+ LD lost deposits looks good. There could be 50 in Scotland alone.
I think the LD's are actually best placed to receive tactical votes as Con <--> Lab is just too much of a jump for many people.
That might help the LDs to get close or even hold on in Dunbartonshire East, Edinburgh West, Orkney & Shetland and Gordon. The Highland seats are probably too far gone (though Caithness remains gloriously unsullied by Ashcroft's forensic minions).
What are you smoking ? SLD = 1 = Orkney !
I reckon 2 - Jo Swinson was well placed in Ashcroft as well as in her own specially-designed poll.
@JPJ2 I expect Salmond to win Gordon but I think the LDs will get a substantial tactical vote there.
Given the relative efficiency of the Scots Tory vote (Borders, etc) there has to be a chance now that they will emerge with as many Scottish seats as Labour, or more.
Oh, how we sat down and wept on the banks of the Clyde.
LOL.
I would rate that chance as better than evens. I think the two hardest seats for the SNP to win will be the oil islands and one of the possible Tory border seats. Even though we've had fair warning the scale of the Labour rout will still shock.
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
Irrespective of who the Scottish MPs blame, Ed is not surviving if he doesn't get into government, surely?
I just don’t see how the Labour Party can forgive this catastrophe. Ed has presided over it all, from Holyrood 2011, Sindy to GE 2015.
If Cameron lost 50 seats in the Tory heartlands of Southern England, there’d be squillions of Tories looking up “How to Kill with Joy” on the internet.
BBC News is slaughtering the SNP with lots of negative numbers, but it's difficult to look past Peston's Austin Powers impression and Nick Robinson's sore throat.
Nick is being treated for lung cancer. It's great to see him getting back to work.
Labour needs to act quickly and say the obvious thing.
SNP and Tories are in bed together and trying to get the Tories into power.
agree - SNP are covertly pushing their support for Labour for the benefit of the tories. Tories aren't really in bed with SNP, just enthusiastic voyeurs
I have never experienced this. I post on last thread that the next poll will show the SNP above the YES 45% and lo and behold within seconds it appears courtesy of YouGov.
The Tory campaign is pathetic . The only purchase comes from Labour's scardy custard reaction.
More power to Lammy's elbow.
Nicola, the poll 8 days back was exactly the same ! SNP was 49 [ which is greater than 45 ] as they are in this one.
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
Irrespective of who the Scottish MPs blame, Ed is not surviving if he doesn't get into government, surely?
I just don’t see how the Labour Party can forgive this catastrophe. Ed has presided over it all, from Holyrood 2011, Sindy to GE 2015.
If Cameron lost 50 seats in the Tory heartlands of Southern England, there’d be squillions of Tories looking up “How to Kill with Joy” on the internet.
Getting back into government, even severely curtailed by losses to the SNP, will heal or at least temper many wounds I suspect. For a time. I'd actually be interested to see how Ed manages vs the SNP - their public position on him certainly underestimates him.
Also, I thought 'How to kill with joy' was the Tory manifesto *easy joke*
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
There may not be a Dr William Brydon to tell the tale of SLAB:
Next they'll be raising interest rates to 15% despite small business after small business collapsing. Thank you Chestnut for reminding us all of Major and his helpful treatment of the people of Britain
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
Irrespective of who the Scottish MPs blame, Ed is not surviving if he doesn't get into government, surely?
I just don’t see how the Labour Party can forgive this catastrophe. Ed has presided over it all, from Holyrood 2011, Sindy to GE 2015.
If Cameron lost 50 seats in the Tory heartlands of Southern England, there’d be squillions of Tories looking up “How to Kill with Joy” on the internet.
I have never experienced this. I post on last thread that the next poll will show the SNP above the YES 45% and lo and behold within seconds it appears courtesy of YouGov.
The Tory campaign is pathetic . The only purchase comes from Labour's scardy custard reaction.
More power to Lammy's elbow.
Nicola, the poll 8 days back was exactly the same ! SNP was 49 [ which is greater than 45 ] as they are in this one.
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
Irrespective of who the Scottish MPs blame, Ed is not surviving if he doesn't get into government, surely?
Indeed so, and in fact it would be in several Shadow Cabinet members' interests to make sure Ed didn't get into power from 20-odd seats behind on 265. They might be PM within a year.
Labour needs to act quickly and say the obvious thing.
SNP and Tories are in bed together and trying to get the Tories into power.
agree - SNP are covertly pushing their support for Labour for the benefit of the tories. Tories aren't really in bed with SNP, just enthusiastic voyeurs
Watching what the SNP is doing to SLAB is nothing like watching any kind of sexual act that I could possibly watch.
Do I hear the beginnings of a mighty swell from the voting ocean? If so swells, when they reach the shore turn into big waves.
No.
UKIP, or more specifically, Nigel Farage, has been speaking to enthusiastic - and full - town halls and other venues all campaign (of course, not reported at all in the MSM).
And down the PB Hodges go again. Labour 1% in front.
Tamadoladingdong! Basil distraught.
The Scum must be really peed off after all this biased reporting and at the end of the night they repeatedly have to put....Labour Ahead Agian....
Oh its no problem, we've already transitioned into 'Lab lead of x really means probably a Tory lead in actuality' territory. Could be true I guess, although a bit much to rely on.
Do I hear the beginnings of a mighty swell from the voting ocean? If so swells, when they reach the shore turn into big waves.
No.
UKIP, or more specifically, Nigel Farage, has been speaking to enthusiastic - and full - town halls and other venues all campaign (of course, not reported at all in the MSM).
Next they'll be raising interest rates to 15% despite small business after small business collapsing. Thank you Chestnut for reminding us all of Major and his helpful treatment of the people of Britain
Pedantry alert!
Rates were never raised to 15% under John Major. They were due to rise to 15% on 17th September 1992, but this was cancelled during the evening of 16th September 1992, as Britain withdrew from the ERM. Rates were cut to 7% in the following months.
I don't dispute the tory shambles in dealing with the debacle on the day, but I what I can't believe is people still think this was a bad thing. It took us away from a path of joining the Euro and boosted our economy massively.
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
Irrespective of who the Scottish MPs blame, Ed is not surviving if he doesn't get into government, surely?
I just don’t see how the Labour Party can forgive this catastrophe. Ed has presided over it all, from Holyrood 2011, Sindy to GE 2015.
If Cameron lost 50 seats in the Tory heartlands of Southern England, there’d be squillions of Tories looking up “How to Kill with Joy” on the internet.
Getting back into government, even severely curtailed by losses to the SNP, will heal or at least temper many wounds I suspect. For a time.
I just don’t think that is a correct reading of the situation.
Rather than deal with the SNP, Labour will surely let a Con Minority Govt take office.
Remember, this is a Con Minority Govt that is going to embark on its favourite hobby, tearing itself to bits over Europe. Not hard to see that it will end in tears.
And Labour will sort out its leader problem. After first Brown and then Miliband, they now need to get an authentic, popular leader.
I wonder how many ethnically Scottish voters there are in English marginals? Regardless of their views on the SNP my experience (small sample size) is that they are getting incredibly pissed off at a Tory message that says if Scots don't vote the right way their representatives should be treated as Parliamentary lepers.
Value bet: Labour landslide in Corby.
The Scottish bits of Corby town do not vote Tory, the posh Northants villages around it do. Corby will remain marginal. Possible Tory gain if low registration in Corby town affects it, or ethnic Scots abandon Labour.
SCUP holding up well, but still a few percent from SLAB crossover.
In view of the weakness of SLAB and SLD polling tactical voters look better to be voting Con.
But PP at 11/10 on 200+ LD lost deposits looks good. There could be 50 in Scotland alone.
This loss deposits bet is something that commented on a couple of days ago. The Yougov poll for Scotland having them on just 4% does make 50 loss deposits in Scotland look very possible. Considering how much they have focused on so few seats in E-W makes another 150 also look very plausible. Indeed the Liberals lost 304 deposits in 1979 when getting 13.8% of the vote. If nothing else it the sort of bet that would give one interest in alot of the declarations on May 7th...
Delighted to see that the SNP are ahead in my brother's constituency of Edinburgh South, but there is a warning there for the SNP in terms of Unionist tactical voting. Ed S was always going to be one of the most difficult seats, given the highest proportion of voters born in England of any Scottish constituency. SNP in the high 40's given 34.7% voting yes there in the referendum consistent with the SNP at 37%. Still Labour would have to squeeze another 3-4% of the remaining 29% left to win, which is over 10% of the residual vote. Reluctant to put this in the SNP column as I was sure Fred Mackintosh was going to gain this for the Lib Dems in 2010, so I'm still going with 55 SNP seats myself - Ed South, Orkney & Shetland, Dumfries & Galloway and BRS resisting the SNP landslide.
Vox pop in Carlisle: "the SNP have some good policies and they might help us all out".
Anecdotal but the SNP did appeal to my other half - she has no financial interest in them (Unlike myself) and is in the Labour/Green borderlands politically.
To tell the truth: I wish Nicola's manifesto was ours.
I would give anything to see her stop Trident !
The one thing that has got me even slightly positive about the chance of a Labour government is that the SNP would simply not let the Labour frontbench pass the spending cuts that they're so obsessed with.
Exactly! Day after day, article after article with personal attacks on Miliband, and then every night, oh yes, that poll we keep paying for, erm, well it says Labour is in front. No wonder Murdoch is going mucking fentle.
Labour should be attacking the SNP much more directly. They bemoan how unequal Scotland is and then do nothing about it in government instead defending middle class priviledges like free education and care for the elderly whilst freezing council tax. The vote SNP get Tory stuff plainly isn't working.
Next they'll be raising interest rates to 15% despite small business after small business collapsing. Thank you Chestnut for reminding us all of Major and his helpful treatment of the people of Britain
Pedantry alert!
Rates were never raised to 15% under John Major. They were due to rise to 15% on 17th September 1992, but this was cancelled during the evening of 16th September 1992, as Britain withdrew from the ERM. Rates were cut to 7% in the following months.
I don't dispute the tory shambles in dealing with the debacle on the day, but I what I can't believe is people still think this was a bad thing. It took us away from a path of joining the Euro and boosted our economy massively.
Thats right, all the people who lost their jobs and homes were actually well pleased at how much the economy was forecast to improve and thank god! They really felt the benefit just like everyone today is rolling in it now Dave's created 2 million new jobs at amazon on 6 quid an hour
Comments
Having grown up in Tory heartlands though, I cannot deny I am more instinctively wary of Labour and favourable to the Tories, though I'd like to think all the times I have defended Ed and Labour mean I am making an attempt at objectivity.
They tried this line before in 2010 and then went into The Coalition.
The Tory campaign is pathetic . The only purchase comes from Labour's scardy custard reaction.
More power to Lammy's elbow.
It will probably be the SNP.
And perhaps 100.000s of voters rocking up to the polling station to be told that they are not registered
Also, wtf is Lammy playing at?
In view of the weakness of SLAB and SLD polling tactical voters look better to be voting Con.
But PP at 11/10 on 200+ LD lost deposits looks good. There could be 50 in Scotland alone.
On the other hand, plenty of people in England seem to like the SNP positions, enough to overcome those Lab voters so fearful of too much SNP influence they would actually switch to the Tories?
He's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
Go to bed with Ed on May 7th
Wake up at some bizarre orgy featuring Natalie Bennett, Nick Clegg, Alex Salmond, Leanne Wood (yes please!) and Ed.
That might help the LDs to get close or even hold on in Dunbartonshire East, Edinburgh West, Orkney & Shetland and Gordon. The Highland seats are probably too far gone (though Caithness remains gloriously unsullied by Ashcroft's forensic minions).
This was the SPIN spread before GE2010. So SPIN always overestimates Tory seats, hugely underestimates Labour. Not surprising since most punters with cash are Tories.
Same old story - Tories have more money than sense !
The only interesting question now is who is going to be getting the blame? Who are the defeated SLAB MPs going to criticise in the bitter aftermath of defeat?
I just don’t see Ed surviving this.
Sir John Major: A Labour-SNP government ‘would bleed English taxpayers dry’ http://sunpl.us/6015fpuf
Do I hear the beginnings of a mighty swell from the voting ocean? If so swells, when they reach the shore turn into big waves.
"That might help the LDs to get close or even hold on in Dunbartonshire East, Edinburgh West, Orkney & Shetland and Gordon"
Good grief-there really is someone who believes Salmond might not gain Gordon from the Lib Dems. Well I never!
Do folk genuinely think that UKIP will win only 1 seat? Bad night if so.
Mr Murphy, for example, has (according to the Sunday Herald) been taking legal advice as to whether he can stay as leader of SLAB even if he loses his MP or MSP status (which is a precondition to be elected, but whether to remain ...) Give them time, even for virtual candidates. There are still 2 and a bit weeks to go. That article, in the Daily Mirror money pages, which I highlighted on last thread, is remarkable for its tone, and may well be a straw in the wind.
Value bet: Labour landslide in Corby.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/590263940061343744
SNP and Tories are in bed together and trying to get the Tories into power.
@JPJ2 I expect Salmond to win Gordon but I think the LDs will get a substantial tactical vote there.
If Cameron lost 50 seats in the Tory heartlands of Southern England, there’d be squillions of Tories looking up “How to Kill with Joy” on the internet.
Tories aren't really in bed with SNP, just enthusiastic voyeurs
Good luck with the book.
Also, I thought 'How to kill with joy' was the Tory manifesto *easy joke*
http://history1800s.about.com/od/colonialwars/a/kabul1842.htm
SLAB cannot take revenge on Ed M if they have ceased to be...
Do I hear the beginnings of a mighty swell from the voting ocean? If so swells, when they reach the shore turn into big waves.
No.
That's one way of getting SNP support over 50%. It's a bloodbath for SLAB.
33p an hour.
A sweatshop worker would turn up their nose.
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by one: CON 34%, LAB 35%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%, GRN 5%
Tamadoladingdong! Basil distraught.
The Scum must be really peed off after all this biased reporting and at the end of the night they repeatedly have to put....Labour Ahead Again....
UKIP, or more specifically, Nigel Farage, has been speaking to enthusiastic - and full - town halls and other venues all campaign (of course, not reported at all in the MSM).
Won't translate into seats though, unfortunately.
Tory +2
Lab +1
Lab +2
the blues have it, the blues have it. Unlock the herd.
GE2010 was often called a good election to lose. Maybe GE2015 is more so.
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by one: CON 34%, LAB 35%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%, GRN 5%
But they still need to hammer home some positive messages to get the more apathetic Labour voters out.
Won't translate into seats though, unfortunately.
Nice to see we agree.
OTOH, having Lab ahead keeps EICIPM real, which helps with Operation DeKipper.
ARF!
Rates were never raised to 15% under John Major. They were due to rise to 15% on 17th September 1992, but this was cancelled during the evening of 16th September 1992, as Britain withdrew from the ERM. Rates were cut to 7% in the following months.
I don't dispute the tory shambles in dealing with the debacle on the day, but I what I can't believe is people still think this was a bad thing. It took us away from a path of joining the Euro and boosted our economy massively.
I would give anything to see her stop Trident !
Rather than deal with the SNP, Labour will surely let a Con Minority Govt take office.
Remember, this is a Con Minority Govt that is going to embark on its favourite hobby, tearing itself to bits over Europe. Not hard to see that it will end in tears.
And Labour will sort out its leader problem. After first Brown and then Miliband, they now need to get an authentic, popular leader.
The Yougov poll for Scotland having them on just 4% does make 50 loss deposits in Scotland look very possible. Considering how much they have focused on so few seats in E-W makes another 150 also look very plausible.
Indeed the Liberals lost 304 deposits in 1979 when getting 13.8% of the vote.
If nothing else it the sort of bet that would give one interest in alot of the declarations on May 7th...
Think that was more of a Coalition effort. Maybe SNP + Labour?
;-)
http://iceagenow.info/2015/04/global-warming-rally-disrupted-snow/