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  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    antifrank said:

    Dair said:

    If this Speaker vote carries, surely the practise of not contesting the Speakers seat needs to end.

    Indeed - if Bercow is forced out, he will still be an MP. And if he believes he was shafted by the Tories it is unlikely he'll sit with them. It would be hugely ironic if he ended up holding the balance of power.

    That was my thought precisely. The election is so much on a knife edge that Bercow could be in a powerful position.



    If John Bercow was forced out of the Speaker's chair having just been elected to Parliament on the Speaker ticket, surely he would take the Chiltern Hundreds? What mandate would he have for taking any policy position at all?

    He will be an elected MP. No-one can force him to do anything he does not want to do.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    antifrank said:

    Dair said:

    If this Speaker vote carries, surely the practise of not contesting the Speakers seat needs to end.

    Indeed - if Bercow is forced out, he will still be an MP. And if he believes he was shafted by the Tories it is unlikely he'll sit with them. It would be hugely ironic if he ended up holding the balance of power.

    That was my thought precisely. The election is so much on a knife edge that Bercow could be in a powerful position.



    If John Bercow was forced out of the Speaker's chair having just been elected to Parliament on the Speaker ticket, surely he would take the Chiltern Hundreds? What mandate would he have for taking any policy position at all?
    As we've seen time and again, Bercow is a very petty man.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Charles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Good point made on Radio 4 this morning, why did Cameron announce no Vat hike on PMQ and what would have happened if Miliband had not asked the question? Why did Osborne not announce it on Tuesday? Either way it demeans the prime minister.Asking Miliband a question is not the purpose of PMQ. If Bercow knew that there was a plot against him then that explains his reluctance to slap down Cameron.

    He would have saved it for the campaign.

    Just like he's waiting to announce the 2% of GDP Defence spending guarantee.
    Very good spot.
    That's been a given ever since the stories erupted in the press out of nowhere.

    How else are they going to get the votes of @Casino_Royale and his ilk back?

    The interesting play will be whether they fund it with a cut in foreign aid? "Foreign aid has an important role to play, yada yada, but our first priority is the safety and security of the British people, yada yada. We'll achieve the 0.7% target in 2025 not 2020 etc etc"
    The Times says it will be an accounting trick after the election.

    (By treating our intelligence/spooks budget as military spending)
    The costs of military participation in aid comes out of that budget. Very often active military operations come out of continences.
    Speaking of which, govts generally give themselves a fairly generous contingency - I wonder how its going this year. Will departments underspend?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    Dair said:

    If this Speaker vote carries, surely the practise of not contesting the Speakers seat needs to end.

    Indeed - if Bercow is forced out, he will still be an MP. And if he believes he was shafted by the Tories it is unlikely he'll sit with them. It would be hugely ironic if he ended up holding the balance of power.

    That was my thought precisely. The election is so much on a knife edge that Bercow could be in a powerful position.



    If John Bercow was forced out of the Speaker's chair having just been elected to Parliament on the Speaker ticket, surely he would take the Chiltern Hundreds? What mandate would he have for taking any policy position at all?

    He will be an elected MP. No-one can force him to do anything he does not want to do.

    I appreciate that no one can force him to do anything he does not want to do. But he has to look at himself in the mirror every morning.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,718
    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    Dair said:

    If this Speaker vote carries, surely the practise of not contesting the Speakers seat needs to end.

    Indeed - if Bercow is forced out, he will still be an MP. And if he believes he was shafted by the Tories it is unlikely he'll sit with them. It would be hugely ironic if he ended up holding the balance of power.

    That was my thought precisely. The election is so much on a knife edge that Bercow could be in a powerful position.



    If John Bercow was forced out of the Speaker's chair having just been elected to Parliament on the Speaker ticket, surely he would take the Chiltern Hundreds? What mandate would he have for taking any policy position at all?

    He will be an elected MP. No-one can force him to do anything he does not want to do.

    I appreciate that no one can force him to do anything he does not want to do. But he has to look at himself in the mirror every morning.
    Perish the thought!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @SeanT was most amusing with his MiliCrosbies.

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Breaking: Marseille Prosecutor confirms that co-pilot put plane into a descent while Captain was locked-out of flight deck. Numerous attempts to contact the plane were met with silence. Captain attempted to break-down the door. Co-pilot could be heard breathing "normally" all the way to impact, but never uttered a single word...

    Horrifically, then, all those on the plane would have been alive and fully aware of events until the moment it hit the ground. Ten minutes of absolute, unmitigated terror. Their families also have to live with that knowledge. Just horrible.

    Prosecutor: Screams heard in the final moments...
    I see you're having another Fukushima moment.
  • No, just no!

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Rumours flying that Tories are secretly in league with DUP to make Nigel Dodds Speaker .... part of a Tory-DUP pact after election
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    As regards John Bercow, there's one oddity to be aware of when betting. Sporting Index, in the Seats markets at least, specify:

    "The Speaker's seat will count to their affiliated party's result (i.e John Bercow as Conservative)."

    (It's not entirely clear whether the same rule applies to their Most Seats index and Majority market).

    Most bookies will not count John Bercow as a Conservative, but check the small print.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    Dair said:

    If this Speaker vote carries, surely the practise of not contesting the Speakers seat needs to end.

    Indeed - if Bercow is forced out, he will still be an MP. And if he believes he was shafted by the Tories it is unlikely he'll sit with them. It would be hugely ironic if he ended up holding the balance of power.

    That was my thought precisely. The election is so much on a knife edge that Bercow could be in a powerful position.



    If John Bercow was forced out of the Speaker's chair having just been elected to Parliament on the Speaker ticket, surely he would take the Chiltern Hundreds? What mandate would he have for taking any policy position at all?

    He will be an elected MP. No-one can force him to do anything he does not want to do.

    I appreciate that no one can force him to do anything he does not want to do. But he has to look at himself in the mirror every morning.

    And he'll say what he says now: I was elected by my constituents to represent them.

    http://www.johnbercow.co.uk/

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,680

    Meanwhile in the Commons:

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 6m6 minutes ago

    Tory MP David Davis says Speaker vote turned what should be a constitutional issue into "an ad hominem matter – a rather mean spirited one"

    It looked to me just now watching the procedural debate like a Tory backbencher rebellion against the Government. Hague got very little support from his own side. Some were vituperative; some were just sad for Hague to end his career this way. Should be an interesting "free" vote.
  • Oh my

    Constitutional flaw in British Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

    Flaw in legislation would favour administration that had lost the confidence of MPs

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/constitutional-flaw-in-british-fixed-term-parliaments-bill-1.2153433#.VRPtg5SbT8M.twitter
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    MaxPB said:

    antifrank said:

    Dair said:

    If this Speaker vote carries, surely the practise of not contesting the Speakers seat needs to end.

    Indeed - if Bercow is forced out, he will still be an MP. And if he believes he was shafted by the Tories it is unlikely he'll sit with them. It would be hugely ironic if he ended up holding the balance of power.

    That was my thought precisely. The election is so much on a knife edge that Bercow could be in a powerful position.



    If John Bercow was forced out of the Speaker's chair having just been elected to Parliament on the Speaker ticket, surely he would take the Chiltern Hundreds? What mandate would he have for taking any policy position at all?
    As we've seen time and again, Bercow is a very petty man.
    Not half as petty as you tories who whinge about him all the time for not doing his job in a way that shows bias towards your party .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    No, just no!

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Rumours flying that Tories are secretly in league with DUP to make Nigel Dodds Speaker .... part of a Tory-DUP pact after election

    Sounds like something out of fruitloopville of fruitloop town.

    Dodds the speaker ?!

    He's the head of the DUP in parliament !

    It'd be like Alex Salmond as Speaker.

    Bonkers, must be a false rumour.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,313

    Oh my

    Constitutional flaw in British Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

    Flaw in legislation would favour administration that had lost the confidence of MPs

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/constitutional-flaw-in-british-fixed-term-parliaments-bill-1.2153433#.VRPtg5SbT8M.twitter

    Surely what would happen is that the PM designate of the proposed new government would advise the Queen that he had a Government and would then be appointed, a d hold a confidence vote. A confidence vote can't be held on a theoreticagovernmebt, it actually has to be in office.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    Oh my

    Constitutional flaw in British Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

    Flaw in legislation would favour administration that had lost the confidence of MPs

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/constitutional-flaw-in-british-fixed-term-parliaments-bill-1.2153433#.VRPtg5SbT8M.twitter

    Surely Dave steps down if he knows he can't get a budget through the house (SNP, Lab, PC - SDLP & Green too) > 323 ?!

    If he doesn't, the house is in complete constitutional chaos.

    If Con, LD, UKIP, DUP = 323 must be the absolute and bare minimum he can stay on with - probably higher but that surely has to be a rock bottom minimum...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    edited March 2015

    MaxPB said:

    antifrank said:

    Dair said:

    If this Speaker vote carries, surely the practise of not contesting the Speakers seat needs to end.

    Indeed - if Bercow is forced out, he will still be an MP. And if he believes he was shafted by the Tories it is unlikely he'll sit with them. It would be hugely ironic if he ended up holding the balance of power.

    That was my thought precisely. The election is so much on a knife edge that Bercow could be in a powerful position.



    If John Bercow was forced out of the Speaker's chair having just been elected to Parliament on the Speaker ticket, surely he would take the Chiltern Hundreds? What mandate would he have for taking any policy position at all?
    As we've seen time and again, Bercow is a very petty man.
    Not half as petty as you tories who whinge about him all the time for not doing his job in a way that shows bias towards your party .
    It seems that Speaker B getting nasty with Little Danny has tipped things over the edge...

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Worth keeping an eye on the prices after today's vote, I would suggest.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Oh my

    Constitutional flaw in British Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

    Flaw in legislation would favour administration that had lost the confidence of MPs

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/constitutional-flaw-in-british-fixed-term-parliaments-bill-1.2153433#.VRPtg5SbT8M.twitter

    I don't get this. Surely a new government doesn't have to have "taken over" for parliament to vote no confidence in it. The government is still there from last time, until such time as the Queen appoints a new Prime Minister. That's not flaw in the drafting, it's how it's supposed to work.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    It is almost nailed on that we are heading for a weak Gov't - the big question is just how weak will it be. If the winner is sub 280 seats then it might be a good one to lose in the long run...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    @Tissue_Price Thanks for the Kettering tip btw.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Pulpstar said:

    It is almost nailed on that we are heading for a weak Gov't - the big question is just how weak will it be. If the winner is sub 280 seats then it might be a good one to lose in the long run...

    A Con/Lab grand coalition would have a huge majority, and very few areas of substantial policy disagreement.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    It is almost nailed on that we are heading for a weak Gov't - the big question is just how weak will it be. If the winner is sub 280 seats then it might be a good one to lose in the long run...

    Not sure Con under 300 is anything like "nailed on". 300 the magic number for either party.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    It is almost nailed on that we are heading for a weak Gov't - the big question is just how weak will it be. If the winner is sub 280 seats then it might be a good one to lose in the long run...

    A Con/Lab grand coalition would have a huge majority, and very few areas of substantial policy disagreement.
    And that would leave UKIP and the LibDems on 20%+ each, IMHO.
  • Wow - Just wow in the House of Commons.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), I'd be surprised if the blues were over 300, to be honest.

    Mr. Tokyo, and would do perhaps mortal damage to both parties. It'd be great news for the SNP, UKIP and Lib Dems.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Cyclefree said:

    Good point made on Radio 4 this morning, why did Cameron announce no Vat hike on PMQ and what would have happened if Miliband had not asked the question? Why did Osborne not announce it on Tuesday? Either way it demeans the prime minister.Asking Miliband a question is not the purpose of PMQ. If Bercow knew that there was a plot against him then that explains his reluctance to slap down Cameron.

    In what way does it demean the PM for him to announce a policy to the House of Commons first?

    He's clutching at straws. Cameron and Osborne did Labour and Miliband up like a complete kipper. You could see life drain from miliband. Parliament is a blood sport, and Miliband got ripped apart.

    I can think of no better place for the first lord of the treasury to make such a statement. I guess the reckoning was, that if he didnt bring it up, Cameron would announce it at the debates anyway. Both would work.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,135
    edited March 2015

    Wow - Just wow in the House of Commons.

    What happened?

    EDIT seen Jack W's post
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Amazing scenes in the HoC

    The Con chair of the procedure committee applauded by Labour benches as he roasts Hague over the Speaker issue.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Not sure if this has been noted, but in Greece...

    "...the cash-strapped coalition has sequestered the reserves of public bodies, seized EU subsidies destined for farmers and postponed all payments for state supplies in the scramble to continue servicing its debt and paying salaries and pensions. Pension funds have been raided to raise money for Treasury bill auctions."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,135
    RodCrosby said:
    MH370 was a similar thing, surely? Surely?
  • Wow - Just wow in the House of Commons.

    What happened?
    Charles Walker (Tory MP) says William Hague has played him for a fool, he was on the verge of tears, so was John Bercow, and when he sat down, Labour MPs stood up and applauded Charles Walker.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,485

    Wow - Just wow in the House of Commons.

    Yep, although perhaps the speaker should have intervened. ;-)

    The government are going to be spanked on this one. Which is a shame, as Bercow's bought his position into disrepute over the clerk nonsense, and secret ballots are in place for virtually everything else in the commons (including, I think, a speaker's replacement).
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It is almost nailed on that we are heading for a weak Gov't - the big question is just how weak will it be. If the winner is sub 280 seats then it might be a good one to lose in the long run...

    A Con/Lab grand coaliton would have a huge majority, and very few areas of substantial policy disagreement.
    And that would leave UKIP and the LibDems on 20%+ each, IMHO.
    In 2020, and on those numbers Miliband-Osborne or Cameron-Balls would still get reelected.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It is almost nailed on that we are heading for a weak Gov't - the big question is just how weak will it be. If the winner is sub 280 seats then it might be a good one to lose in the long run...

    Not sure Con under 300 is anything like "nailed on". 300 the magic number for either party.

    Both parties would give their right arm to be on 300 seats if they could take it right now.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Not sure if this has been noted, but in Greece...

    "...the cash-strapped coalition has sequestered the reserves of public bodies, seized EU subsidies destined for farmers and postponed all payments for state supplies in the scramble to continue servicing its debt and paying salaries and pensions. Pension funds have been raided to raise money for Treasury bill auctions."

    Well, what a surprise.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,718
    Pulpstar said:

    It is almost nailed on that we are heading for a weak Gov't - the big question is just how weak will it be. If the winner is sub 280 seats then it might be a good one to lose in the long run...

    I don't think that a Coalition is NECESSARILY a weak Government.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,135

    Wow - Just wow in the House of Commons.

    What happened?
    Charles Walker (Tory MP) says William Hague has played him for a fool, he was on the verge of tears, so was John Bercow, and when he sat down, Labour MPs stood up and applauded Charles Walker.
    Thanks!
  • I've been speaking to someone about today's Bercow shenanigans.

    He thinks why the Tories are doing this (and the Lib Dems have gone along with) is that they expect the next election to be very messy (Tories largest party and Tories & LD be the largest block but short of a majority)

    Thus, the voting down of the Queen's Speech and procedures of the Fixed Term Parliament Act, will need some navigation, and the Tories and Lib Dems just don't trust Bercow to be fair on that.

    The LibDems are supporting this nonsense?

    They deserve the thumping that appears to be on its way.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,135
    Part-ELBOW so far this week including last night's YG = Lab lead of 0.1%
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2015

    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It is almost nailed on that we are heading for a weak Gov't - the big question is just how weak will it be. If the winner is sub 280 seats then it might be a good one to lose in the long run...

    A Con/Lab grand coaliton would have a huge majority, and very few areas of substantial policy disagreement.
    And that would leave UKIP and the LibDems on 20%+ each, IMHO.
    In 2020, and on those numbers Miliband-Osborne or Cameron-Balls would still get reelected.
    Maybe, but I they'd have a choice of bedfellows, and would almost certainly want to move on.
  • I've been speaking to someone about today's Bercow shenanigans.

    He thinks why the Tories are doing this (and the Lib Dems have gone along with) is that they expect the next election to be very messy (Tories largest party and Tories & LD be the largest block but short of a majority)

    Thus, the voting down of the Queen's Speech and procedures of the Fixed Term Parliament Act, will need some navigation, and the Tories and Lib Dems just don't trust Bercow to be fair on that.

    The LibDems are supporting this nonsense?

    They deserve the thumping that appears to be on its way.
    Bercow's been pissing them off as well.

    It is his partisanship as much as his rudeness that will end up costing him his job.
  • JackW said:

    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    If only we had a Speaker with the quality and integrity of Charles Walker.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    What time is the vote on the Speaker due?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Zac Goldsmith opposing government.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    JackW said:

    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    If only we had a Speaker with the quality and integrity of Charles Walker.
    Walker was one of the 23 MPs to sign the Motion of No Confidence in Speaker Michael Martin.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    edited March 2015
    JackW said:

    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    What's happening to this Speaker (and what happened to the last Speaker) is all a result of New Labour making the appointment of the Speaker a partisan issue.

    I don't think we've had a Speaker that all side's of the House are happy with since Betty Boothroyd and, as we did in 2009, we're seeing the results of this now...

    The upshot of all this should be that after Speaker B, Parliament elects a leader that all side's of the House is happy with. Luckily Lyndsey Holye seems to be popular with everybody, so with a bit of luck we won't have these problems with the next Speaker.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    This is all Bercow's fault - he's brought it on himself.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    RodCrosby said:
    MH370 was a similar thing, surely? Surely?
    The discrepancies in the two cases highlights why MH370 probably wasn't.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/malaysia-airlines-mh370-aviation-expert-wants-australia-prove-plane-indian-ocean-1493391
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Plato said:

    Going first certainly allows DC to set an agenda for EdM to be questioned about too, as he's not fast on his feet- this looks like a tactical mistake irrespective of anything else.

    antifrank said:

    I cannot fathom why Ed Miliband would have actively chosen to go second tonight. I cannot see a single advantage of doing so.

    I suppose he can "debate" the points DC has made. But purely on timing alone it looks an absolutely appalling decision.
    How would I have known that that is exactly what you have had said ?
  • TGOHF said:

    This is all Bercow's fault - he's brought it on himself.

    Yup
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2015
    JackW said:



    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    Who are you describing?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Mr. Gin, I agree entirely.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    As I said this morning. The German plane deliberately destroyed by the co-pilot. Nutter or terrorist? I bet my guess is correct.
  • Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
    "Graham Brady, chair of powerful 1922 committee, sitting next to Charles Walker, leading Tory criticism of Bercow plot. Ominous for gvt"

    Now why am I not surprised at William Hague being unable to think through how his back benchers would react to something? Just look at the mess he created over the european referendum votes prior to Cameron adopting that policy.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    What's happening to this Speaker (and what happened to the last Speaker) is all a result of New Labour making the appointment of the Speaker a partisan issue.

    I don't think we've had a Speaker that all side's of the House are happy with since Betty Boothroyd and, as we did in 2009, we're seeing the results of this now...

    It's not a partisan issue, it's govt + pro-govt tub-thumpers vs world + dog. Which is why this maneuvre is getting pulled apart by Tory MPs as we speak.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,990
    Afternoon all :)

    Trying to get my head round the whole Bercow issue - what is the issue about a secret ballot for the election of a Speaker ? I realise each Party wants "their man or woman" in the job but isn't the role of the Speaker to be, in theory, above the political fray ?

    I know some MPs haven't liked the way Bercow operates which is fair enough and they presumably didn't like Michael Martin either but what do they want - a partisan who supinely backs the Government of the day or someone with a bit more fire.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    This might have been posted already and I missed it, but UK Polling Report on decline in UKIP and Greens:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9304

    Interesting to note their comments on UKIP. From next week the equal status as major party kicks in on TV. We'll be seeing a lot more of Farage and other candidates soon.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,503
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32062278

    One of the two pilots of the Germanwings plane that crashed in the French Alps was locked out of the cockpit, according to reports.
    Early findings from the cockpit voice recorder suggest the pilot made desperate efforts to get back in, sources close to the investigation say.

    Not surprising that this is looking more like a terrorist attack or the work of a pilot turned nutter. I think the former reason will prevail.

    Isn't keeping the cockpit door locked intended as a safety measure to prevent hijackers getting in?
    One doesn't lock out your own co-pilot!
    This one certainly appears to have done so.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    If this Speaker vote carries, surely the practise of not contesting the Speakers seat needs to end.

    Indeed - if Bercow is forced out, he will still be an MP. And if he believes he was shafted by the Tories it is unlikely he'll sit with them. It would be hugely ironic if he ended up holding the balance of power.

    That was my thought precisely. The election is so much on a knife edge that Bercow could be in a powerful position.



    Galloway, Bercow and Sylvia Hermon deciding the fate of the country.

    What interesting times may be ahead.
    You reckon Gorgeous will get reelected?
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Pulpstar said:
    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/ashfield/winning-party

    In case anyone is tempted, i'd be a little careful making a large deposit to "winner" or titanbet.

    You need to subtract the risk premium from your 25% return.

    That is all.
  • GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    What's happening to this Speaker (and what happened to the last Speaker) is all a result of New Labour making the appointment of the Speaker a partisan issue......
    True and Bercow playing Labour's game. But, the way to have handled this was through a scheduled debate. Also Cameron/Osborne/Hague only have themselves to blame for backing off having a vote on Bercow at the start of the parliament. They did not see the problem that Bercow would turn into in spite of all the warning signs.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:
    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/ashfield/winning-party

    In case anyone is tempted, i'd be a little careful making a large deposit to "winner" or titanbet.

    You need to subtract the risk premium from your 25% return.

    That is all.
    Hmm Have quite a few outstanding bets with Winner !

    Not for megabucks though.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    This looks a hail Mary on Bercow - goes well he was out, goes like this - well he's on notice for the next parly.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    What's happening to this Speaker (and what happened to the last Speaker) is all a result of New Labour making the appointment of the Speaker a partisan issue......
    True and Bercow playing Labour's game. But, the way to have handled this was through a scheduled debate. Also Cameron/Osborne/Hague only have themselves to blame for backing off having a vote on Bercow at the start of the parliament. They did not see the problem that Bercow would turn into in spite of all the warning signs.
    More to the point, if they'd had the vote they'd have lost it.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    MikeK said:

    Nutter or terrorist? I bet my guess is correct.

    Depends on the colour of his skin, right?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Richard Rogers retweeted
    Lynn Smith ‏@freedomlynn123 14m14 minutes ago
    Kelvin McKenzie describes the white working class as 'White thicko's' on the Daily Politics can u believe the out right arrogance of the man?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Sam Coates, The Times deputy political editor

    @SamCoatesTimes
    Posted at 13:13

    tweets : Gove is summoning individual Tory MPs for "fireside chats" re Bercow. Desperation creeping in?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    No, just no!

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Rumours flying that Tories are secretly in league with DUP to make Nigel Dodds Speaker .... part of a Tory-DUP pact after election

    A DUP member of parliament as the impartial speaker? Would any Catholics get called?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    RE. Bercow: I think history will regard him rather more highly than a lot of current Tories do. His single big mis-step was the clerk thing, but other than that he'll be seen as a great moderniser and advocate for democracy.

    Not saying he's not a scheming egomaniac - he is - but to tortuously paraphrase Mozzer, some scheming egomaniacs are better than others.

    As an aside though, I cannot understand why on earth this manoeuvre was allowed to happen at all, politically speaking. So many more potential negative outcomes than positive for the Cons. Daft move.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    DrLaughAtTheLeft ‏@LaughAtTheLeft 18h18 hours ago
    Breaking News: The votes are in and have been counted in Tower Hamlets and there has been a 129% turn out. #GE2015

    :D
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    This might have been posted already and I missed it, but UK Polling Report on decline in UKIP and Greens:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9304

    Interesting to note their comments on UKIP. From next week the equal status as major party kicks in on TV. We'll be seeing a lot more of Farage and other candidates soon.

    As UKIP have declined it's looked like the Tories haven't significantly benefited. But I wonder if what's actually happening is that UKIP are flowing to Con at roughly the same rate as Con flowing to Lib Dem. In that case if the increased coverage for UKIP and Lib Dem translates into votes for those two parties, it'll be a double-downside kicking in for Con.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Trying to get my head round the whole Bercow issue - what is the issue about a secret ballot for the election of a Speaker ? I realise each Party wants "their man or woman" in the job but isn't the role of the Speaker to be, in theory, above the political fray ?

    I know some MPs haven't liked the way Bercow operates which is fair enough and they presumably didn't like Michael Martin either but what do they want - a partisan who supinely backs the Government of the day or someone with a bit more fire.

    "I have neither eyes to see nor tongue to speak in this place but as the House is pleased to direct me, whose servant I am here"

    Betty Boothroyd is the standard by which modern speakers are measured I would say, very far from supine, plenty of fire, infallibly polite, utterly neutral.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,135
    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    What's happening to this Speaker (and what happened to the last Speaker) is all a result of New Labour making the appointment of the Speaker a partisan issue.

    Isn't Bercow a Tory?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Pong said:

    MikeK said:

    Nutter or terrorist? I bet my guess is correct.

    Depends on the colour of his skin, right?
    Lamest comment of the day against some stiff competition.

    Depending on if he was a terrorist would be the logical conclusion.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited March 2015
    The whole Bercow thing is ridiculous. It seems that the only criticism that the anti-Bercow faction can come up with is that he's been very effective at doing his job. There does not seem to be a single coherent criticism that the rabid right can come up with.

    It's even worse than Michael Martin who was effectively strung up as a scape goat because MPs Expenses were exposed.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Indigo said:

    Pong said:

    MikeK said:

    Nutter or terrorist? I bet my guess is correct.

    Depends on the colour of his skin, right?
    Lamest comment of the day against some stiff competition.

    Depending on if he was a terrorist would be the logical conclusion.
    'Cos it's that simple right?

    http://www.ict.org.il/Article/1123/Defining-Terrorism-Is-One-Mans-Terrorist-Another-Mans-Freedom-Fighter
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dair said:

    It seems that the only criticism that the anti-Bercow faction can come up with is that he's been very effective at doing his job. .

    Pretty sure that isn't the case that is being put forward by either side..
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    This might have been posted already and I missed it, but UK Polling Report on decline in UKIP and Greens:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9304

    Interesting to note their comments on UKIP. From next week the equal status as major party kicks in on TV. We'll be seeing a lot more of Farage and other candidates soon.

    As UKIP have declined it's looked like the Tories haven't significantly benefited. But I wonder if what's actually happening is that UKIP are flowing to Con at roughly the same rate as Con flowing to Lib Dem. In that case if the increased coverage for UKIP and Lib Dem translates into votes for those two parties, it'll be a double-downside kicking in for Con.
    I would have thought it more likely kippers were moving back to DK/DNV/NOTA since that is where most of them have come from, either permanently, or because they are feeling a bit shy at the moment.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Hague refuses to withdraw motion.

    MP's voting now.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    edited March 2015
    stodge said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pong said:

    I've just seen the latest Lib Dem poster.

    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/581025157671616512

    That's rather good.
    Dreadful message from the shameless party. 'Hey, these people look stupid in some photos, so vote for us'.

    Dreadful because:

    a) even more childish than the usual election poster
    b) doesn't have any issue highlighted apart from outdated assumptions of the political spectrum
    c) doesn't resonate with public perceptions - GO one of the most popular politicians in the country
    d) the irony will resonate with public perceptions more - LDs are terribly unpopular. So much so that people are not even mentioning them in public. Not even in a whisper.

    It is so bad I doubt there will even be any parodies produced by opponents.

    Yes, yes, you don't like the LDs and you think George Osborne is wonderful.

    I don't know what it is about some Tories on here - happy to throw the vitriol around when it comes to their opponents but as soon as anyone fights back they get all brittle and prickly (like their leader).

    You've got £70 million to spend on this election - go out and buy a sense of humour and a thicker skin - you won't make it to election day without them.
    No bitterness, no prickliness. Just pointing out some using some basic advertising assumptions that this is a particularly naff approach.

    You have to remember that these posters are not intended for people who bet on politics, or who are political activists - but instead for the general public who are more interested in the price of their rent, mortgages and their pay packet (thus taxes).

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Pong said:

    Indigo said:

    Pong said:

    MikeK said:

    Nutter or terrorist? I bet my guess is correct.

    Depends on the colour of his skin, right?
    Lamest comment of the day against some stiff competition.

    Depending on if he was a terrorist would be the logical conclusion.
    'Cos it's that simple right?

    http://www.ict.org.il/Article/1123/Defining-Terrorism-Is-One-Mans-Terrorist-Another-Mans-Freedom-Fighter
    Not many people outside the terrorist own organisation would describe someone flying an airliner full of people into a mountain as a freedom fighter, the law certainly wouldn't, and its the law by which civilised society operates.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,135
    New Thread
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Earlier today:

    Mark Reckless ‏@MarkReckless 41m41 minutes ago
    @SamCoatesTimes: Gove is summoning individual Tory MPs for "fireside chats" re Bercow. Desperation creeping in?”>after saying was free vote

    Douglas Carswell ‏@DouglasCarswell 39m39 minutes ago
    @MarkReckless @SamCoatesTimes think I might stand outside whips office and tweet which narks are hauled in....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,981
    The Thatcherite doctrine of 'ONE OF US' has now infected Cameron's Tory Party. Just as the country was SLIGHTLY warming to them

    How completely repulsive and off putting
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    I don't quite understand the animus against Bercow. He may be an egomaniac but that sort of criticism is a bit rich coming from other MPs who are no slouches when it comes to the ego stakes.

    At any event, a constitutional position such as the Speaker should not be mucked about with just because the government (and the Speaker represents the Commons not the executive) doesn't like the particular individual holding the job.

    I should add that I have met Bercow and he was much nicer and more thoughtful than he sometimes appears on television.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    All positions of influence in the HOC should be voted for by secret ballot
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,990
    Indigo said:


    "I have neither eyes to see nor tongue to speak in this place but as the House is pleased to direct me, whose servant I am here"

    Betty Boothroyd is the standard by which modern speakers are measured I would say, very far from supine, plenty of fire, infallibly polite, utterly neutral.

    I wouldn't want to try and bring order to that bearpit unless I had a whip and a chair. Yet it's always been like that and probably always will be. Perhaps the tv cameras have brought it home to the wider public just what a place it really is.

    I don't think this is a Party political issue - the backbenchers play to the gallery on both sides and I suppose that's part of the game as well.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    Indigo said:

    Pong said:

    MikeK said:

    Nutter or terrorist? I bet my guess is correct.

    Depends on the colour of his skin, right?
    Lamest comment of the day against some stiff competition.

    Depending on if he was a terrorist would be the logical conclusion.
    The co-pilot may have been a terrorist or a loon on a suicide mission. Or it is possible that he had some sort of a seizure or blackout. We may never know. Still, truly truly awful for the families.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32062278

    One of the two pilots of the Germanwings plane that crashed in the French Alps was locked out of the cockpit, according to reports.
    Early findings from the cockpit voice recorder suggest the pilot made desperate efforts to get back in, sources close to the investigation say.

    Not surprising that this is looking more like a terrorist attack or the work of a pilot turned nutter. I think the former reason will prevail.

    Isn't keeping the cockpit door locked intended as a safety measure to prevent hijackers getting in?
    Yes, but it is a matter of fact that there have been other occasions where crew have been unable to access cabin.
  • GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    As a firm supporter of the Coalition I am ashamed by the activities of government front bench over the Speaker issue.

    Grubby, shabby and disreputable.

    What's happening to this Speaker (and what happened to the last Speaker) is all a result of New Labour making the appointment of the Speaker a partisan issue.

    I don't think we've had a Speaker that all side's of the House are happy with since Betty Boothroyd and, as we did in 2009, we're seeing the results of this now...

    The upshot of all this should be that after Speaker B, Parliament elects a leader that all side's of the House is happy with. Luckily Lyndsey Holye seems to be popular with everybody, so with a bit of luck we won't have these problems with the next Speaker.

    A Conservative plot is "Labour's fault". Only on PB.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568
    Indigo said:



    Betty Boothroyd is the standard by which modern speakers are measured I would say, very far from supine, plenty of fire, infallibly polite, utterly neutral.

    Not sure you'd say that if you'd served under her. You might be right on political neutrality, but she was not very popular with newer MPs, because she was perceived as having old-hand favourites who would be called again and again (also something said of Michael Martin). Bercow was much better with newcomers, as well as in my opinion being simply a nicer person - and I'm saying that although Betty and Michael were in my party and he wasn't.

    The impression people get from the media (coloured by political assessments) doesn't always reflect what people think who've met those involved, and the scenes being played out in the Commons at the moment partly reflect the reality that people don't like to see someone they personally quite like being stitched up.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    No, just no!

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Rumours flying that Tories are secretly in league with DUP to make Nigel Dodds Speaker .... part of a Tory-DUP pact after election

    Not literally the worst thing the could do but it is a very short list that is worse.
This discussion has been closed.