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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It can be argued that the flawed polls are those that don’t

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    Sky are offering mega millions to all three of them to bring the formula to Sky 1. Must be a tempting offer.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited March 2015

    Fighting talk from Gerald Warner:

    When Our Army May be Cut to 50,000, The Smell of Treason is Becoming Offensive

    .........For centuries traitors were hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn who had done less material damage to this country than politicians today. Undermining the defence of the realm is treason. The stench of it is emanating from every aperture in the Palace of Westminster.


    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/11/when-our-army-may-be-cut-to-50000-the-smell-of-treason-is-becoming-offensive/

    Its a good rant, I particularly like the following article of truth

    The Vichy Tories don’t want to tell the electorate they intend to dismantle what little remains of this nation’s defences and risk losing votes. All major policy decisions that are monstrously opposed to the national interest are nowadays postponed until after the voters have been conned. The government then claims a “mandate” for whatever it wants to do, often by consensus of all three legacy parties, and democracy is further subverted.

    This was a bit of an eye opener as well, WTF are they doing with the money ?

    A Department for International Development programme that was supposed to create 29,000 jobs in Sierra Leone by this year has created just 16.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Matthew Moore ‏@mattmoorek 2m2 minutes ago

    FUKP candidate @almurray will parachute into South Thanet on Friday to launch his bid to win the seat. With an actual parachute.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805
    Re. Clarkson:

    I'm conflicted over this. On one hand, the 'crime' that got him his final warning seemed little more than a pathetic put-up job. On the other, attempting to punch a colleague is wrong, but I'm not sure a suspension is valid (the devil will be in the details of what happened, and we only have one side of the story).

    However: many of us have complained in the past over the BBC's somewhat lax attitude towards what could be called 'talent': from before Saville, there appeared to have been a rather sinister attitude about what talent could get away with. First with Carol Thatcher, and now with Clarkson, we have had firm, immediate action for incidents that occurred off-air.

    I wait for baited breath for the same to happen to some of the left-wing 'talent'. Hopefully such a brave new attitude on the BBC's part would not be politically biased ...
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I've read Spiked! for years, it's an excellent mag. I even paid for events chaired by them. Rather too many black polo shirts for my taste, but provocative stuff.

    Very good article indeed. I do agree that I find myself wishing the left had more of the beliefs of 'Spiked' rather than the apparently homogenizing ideas that seem to dominate at the moment.
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    Indigo said:

    Fighting talk from Gerald Warner:

    When Our Army May be Cut to 50,000, The Smell of Treason is Becoming Offensive

    .........For centuries traitors were hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn who had done less material damage to this country than politicians today. Undermining the defence of the realm is treason. The stench of it is emanating from every aperture in the Palace of Westminster.


    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/11/when-our-army-may-be-cut-to-50000-the-smell-of-treason-is-becoming-offensive/

    Its a good rant, I particularly like the following article of truth

    The Vichy Tories don’t want to tell the electorate they intend to dismantle what little remains of this nation’s defences and risk losing votes. All major policy decisions that are monstrously opposed to the national interest are nowadays postponed until after the voters have been conned. The government then claims a “mandate” for whatever it wants to do, often by consensus of all three legacy parties, and democracy is further subverted.
    Indeed Warner's rants are of the highest quality. I always was give them a read if I spot them.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,768
    TGOHF said:

    Matthew Moore ‏@mattmoorek 2m2 minutes ago

    FUKP candidate @almurray will parachute into South Thanet on Friday to launch his bid to win the seat. With an actual parachute.

    Will Farage be flying in the plane? If so it's safer than landing.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,069
    TGOHF said:

    Matthew Moore ‏@mattmoorek 2m2 minutes ago

    FUKP candidate @almurray will parachute into South Thanet on Friday to launch his bid to win the seat. With an actual parachute.

    Will he also leaflet drop his tour dates from the air while he is doing it?
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    O/T GBP now at Euro 1.4224!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Quite. I assume they chose them to control them by proxy - like Mrs Roosevelt.
    Cyclefree said:

    Patrick said:

    The Justine stunt was pure desperation

    It shows weakness. Imagine Putin or any other leader wheeling out their wives or mummies to fight their corner for them.
    Some leaders' wives may be of passing electoral benefit to their husbands - depending on how MILFy they are. (PC lefties can avert their gaze now). I'd gently suggest that Cherie and Justine add precisely nothing to their men's allure whereas Samantha and Miriam are a bit phwoar and at least don't detract. As someone once quipped of Clinton: 'At least we can know he is sexually competent'. !!!
    Personally I feel that I know more about Cherie's sex life than is decent.

    However, in the case of Sam, Miriam and Justine and even Sarah Brown, the question for me is why they settled for such mediocre looking and behaving men when they could have done so much better for themselves.

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    Everyone seems to be assuming Clarkson hit this chap. All the reports claim he 'threw a punch at' however, and did not actually hit the guy. Clarkson denies outright hitting him. Saw one report that it was a mock punch to express his frustration. Suggest all 'he must be be sacked now' comments hang fire pending some actual facts.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,069

    Re. Clarkson:

    I'm conflicted over this. On one hand, the 'crime' that got him his final warning seemed little more than a pathetic put-up job. On the other, attempting to punch a colleague is wrong, but I'm not sure a suspension is valid (the devil will be in the details of what happened, and we only have one side of the story).

    However: many of us have complained in the past over the BBC's somewhat lax attitude towards what could be called 'talent': from before Saville, there appeared to have been a rather sinister attitude about what talent could get away with. First with Carol Thatcher, and now with Clarkson, we have had firm, immediate action for incidents that occurred off-air.

    I wait for baited breath for the same to happen to some of the left-wing 'talent'. Hopefully such a brave new attitude on the BBC's part would not be politically biased ...

    I still can't get over how nobody blinked an eye when Adrian "Golly" Chiles wasn't just insensitive to a Jewish guy who had suffered Anti-Semitic abuse, he actually asked if it was his fault for doing so and that it was well only a few minutes of it.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    A daughter's desperate plea

    Em Clarkson @EmClarkson1- Oh God, BBC please take him back... He's started cooking...
    10:26 PM - 10 Mar 2015
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    TGOHF said:
    Again, other than the odd person in the media, can't journo used google. Took me 2 mins to find info out this guy, which I noted yesterday, without any of the contacts and resources most papers have to look into individuals.

    And all this BS about the letter.....The police and school at that stage had no reason to think that these girls were thinking of running off, I mean the parents say they were totally normal teenagers and no signs of being radicalized, so why would you not think that giving them a letter saying could you get your parents permission (which they have to) so we can just ask you about your friend so we can help find her would be an issue.

    This lawyer actually claimed that this letter might have triggered them going, which is like me saying I got a letter from the plod saying somebody has been speeding in my car, can you confirm who was driving and it was my other half, so that caused me to go out and drive up and down the motorway at 150mph.
    At lot of more sensible countries just don't let minors out of the country without explicit parental permission, in the form of a signed document carried in the passport. I know the liberal establishment doesn't really approve of parental responsibility, and making people stand up to their responsibilities as parents, but there is a limit to this sort of idiocy.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,162
    Most stupid decision of the day, perhaps:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-31832392

    A woman has won the right to some money from her ex-husband. Who became a millionaire after they divorced.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    DavidL said:

    Margaret Hodge may be wise to be careful castigating others for what they didn't know:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/with-a-past-like-hers-margaret-hodge-might-show-a-bit-more-humility-10098871.html

    With a past like hers, Margaret Hodge might show a bit more humility
    In the Eighties Hodge was aware of previous child sex abuse in the care homes for which she was responsible, and did nothing about it

    I find this a tricky one. On the one hand smug Banker types sitting there espousing corporate mea culpas for which no one should bear personal responsibility drives me a lot closer to violence than most things. If we can't lock them up for what they did to this country having someone shouting abuse at them is at least something.

    OTOH as even the Indy points out Margaret Hodge is perhaps not best placed to do the shouting.
    I can understand your frustration.

    But consider this: not one MP whistleblew on expenses. Hodge did nothing over child abuse in Islington. Given that experience, thoughtful MPs would realise that ranting and raving is not going to get the sort of deeply embedded cultural changes within banks and other institutions that is needed if we are to make a start on ensuring that something like this does not happen again - or not on this scale.

    Understanding why they did not whistleblow, how difficult it is to run large organisations, what responsibility at the top and leadership really means should lead to more sensible and thoughtful criticisms and changes. Very few people whistleblow. And the reason they don't is not about procedures and processes. And it's not even about the fear of retaliation, though that can play a part. It's because putting yourself outside a group, on the margin is hard and difficult and goes against the grain. Most people do not see themselves as heroes. We value loyalty and teamwork and then we say that you must rat on your colleagues. This is not easy. No-one likes a snitch. So trying to get people to understand that not speaking up is misplaced loyalty, that speaking up is the right thing to do is hard and takes understanding and psychological insight.

    Vainglorious grandstanding by self-righteous egomaniacs who see the motes in others' eyes but not the beam in their own is absolutely the wrong way to get the change we need. There will be some useless laws which will achieve nothing and have unintended consequences. A lot of shiny new procedures will be written. There will be little or no understanding. And in 5-7 years we will all be wringing our hands again when similar scandals erupt again.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,162
    Mr. Urquhart, that was despicable indeed. Chiles is a disgrace.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Did you ever read his ST article about people who keep awards in the downstairs bog so they could pretend to be modest but were really showing off?

    It's hilarious and one of my all time favourites. Do look it up.

    A daughter's desperate plea

    Em Clarkson @EmClarkson1- Oh God, BBC please take him back... He's started cooking...
    10:26 PM - 10 Mar 2015

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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Cyclefree said:

    Patrick said:

    The Justine stunt was pure desperation

    It shows weakness. Imagine Putin or any other leader wheeling out their wives or mummies to fight their corner for them.
    Some leaders' wives may be of passing electoral benefit to their husbands - depending on how MILFy they are. (PC lefties can avert their gaze now). I'd gently suggest that Cherie and Justine add precisely nothing to their men's allure whereas Samantha and Miriam are a bit phwoar and at least don't detract. As someone once quipped of Clinton: 'At least we can know he is sexually competent'. !!!
    Personally I feel that I know more about Cherie's sex life than is decent.

    However, in the case of Sam, Miriam and Justine and even Sarah Brown, the question for me is why they settled for such mediocre looking and behaving men when they could have done so much better for themselves.

    It sounds a bit Pride and Prejudice, regarding marriage as an opportunity for women to "do well for themselves".

    Also a bit spooked not to see Kirsten in your list.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Indigo said:

    Fighting talk from Gerald Warner:

    When Our Army May be Cut to 50,000, The Smell of Treason is Becoming Offensive

    .........For centuries traitors were hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn who had done less material damage to this country than politicians today. Undermining the defence of the realm is treason. The stench of it is emanating from every aperture in the Palace of Westminster.


    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/11/when-our-army-may-be-cut-to-50000-the-smell-of-treason-is-becoming-offensive/

    Its a good rant, I particularly like the following article of truth

    The Vichy Tories don’t want to tell the electorate they intend to dismantle what little remains of this nation’s defences and risk losing votes. All major policy decisions that are monstrously opposed to the national interest are nowadays postponed until after the voters have been conned. The government then claims a “mandate” for whatever it wants to do, often by consensus of all three legacy parties, and democracy is further subverted.

    This was a bit of an eye opener as well, WTF are they doing with the money ?

    A Department for International Development programme that was supposed to create 29,000 jobs in Sierra Leone by this year has created just 16.
    Gosh, I wonder what might have happened in Sierra Leone in the last year to disrupt previous plans?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Most stupid decision of the day, perhaps:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-31832392

    A woman has won the right to some money from her ex-husband. Who became a millionaire after they divorced.

    When is a "clean break" settlement not a clean break settlement ?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That reminds of the footballer's wife who got a settlement based on his future earnings. Insane.

    Most stupid decision of the day, perhaps:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-31832392

    A woman has won the right to some money from her ex-husband. Who became a millionaire after they divorced.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    My brother had a *clean break* divorce and then his ex-wife came after him. He's only a teacher. He paid her £10k and gave her their house 20 yrs ago and she still attempted to get more years later.

    I hate my brother but that gained some sympathy from me.
    Indigo said:

    Most stupid decision of the day, perhaps:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-31832392

    A woman has won the right to some money from her ex-husband. Who became a millionaire after they divorced.

    When is a "clean break" settlement not a clean break settlement ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,162
    Miss Plato, was that somebody Parlour? [Football's not my area of interest].

    It's indefensible.

    Mr. Indigo, not sure, but the court seems to think it's more than 10 years...
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Financier said:

    O/T GBP now at Euro 1.4224!

    God, the Euro is MASSIVE!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0uE1qi2A68
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited March 2015
    That's the one - I'd forgotten his name.
    The footballer's wife Karen Parlour today won a landmark court ruling that he must pay her more than a third of his future income in the wake of their divorce.

    The mother-of-three, whose marriage to £1.2 million-a-year Arsenal midfielder Ray Parlour was dissolved in 2002, was told by the Court of Appeal today [two years later] that her award of £250,000 a year personal maintenance would be increased to £406,500, to be reviewed after four years.
    independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/footballers-wife-wins-landmark-divorce-deal-6166049.html

    Miss Plato, was that somebody Parlour? [Football's not my area of interest].

    It's indefensible.

    Mr. Indigo, not sure, but the court seems to think it's more than 10 years...

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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Plato said:

    My brother had a *clean break* divorce and then his ex-wife came after him. He's only a teacher. He paid her £10k and gave her their house 20 yrs ago and she still attempted to get more years later.

    I hate my brother but that gained some sympathy from me.

    Indigo said:

    Most stupid decision of the day, perhaps:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-31832392

    A woman has won the right to some money from her ex-husband. Who became a millionaire after they divorced.

    When is a "clean break" settlement not a clean break settlement ?
    From what I have read a court approved clean break settlement is exactly to prevent those sort of occurrences, what's the catch ?
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Indigo said:

    Fighting talk from Gerald Warner:

    When Our Army May be Cut to 50,000, The Smell of Treason is Becoming Offensive

    .........For centuries traitors were hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn who had done less material damage to this country than politicians today. Undermining the defence of the realm is treason. The stench of it is emanating from every aperture in the Palace of Westminster.


    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/11/when-our-army-may-be-cut-to-50000-the-smell-of-treason-is-becoming-offensive/

    Its a good rant, I particularly like the following article of truth

    The Vichy Tories don’t want to tell the electorate they intend to dismantle what little remains of this nation’s defences and risk losing votes. All major policy decisions that are monstrously opposed to the national interest are nowadays postponed until after the voters have been conned. The government then claims a “mandate” for whatever it wants to do, often by consensus of all three legacy parties, and democracy is further subverted.

    This was a bit of an eye opener as well, WTF are they doing with the money ?

    A Department for International Development programme that was supposed to create 29,000 jobs in Sierra Leone by this year has created just 16.
    The bit about defence - typical kipper rant with no facts or truth.

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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    perdix said:

    Indigo said:

    Fighting talk from Gerald Warner:

    When Our Army May be Cut to 50,000, The Smell of Treason is Becoming Offensive

    .........For centuries traitors were hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn who had done less material damage to this country than politicians today. Undermining the defence of the realm is treason. The stench of it is emanating from every aperture in the Palace of Westminster.


    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/11/when-our-army-may-be-cut-to-50000-the-smell-of-treason-is-becoming-offensive/

    Its a good rant, I particularly like the following article of truth

    The Vichy Tories don’t want to tell the electorate they intend to dismantle what little remains of this nation’s defences and risk losing votes. All major policy decisions that are monstrously opposed to the national interest are nowadays postponed until after the voters have been conned. The government then claims a “mandate” for whatever it wants to do, often by consensus of all three legacy parties, and democracy is further subverted.

    This was a bit of an eye opener as well, WTF are they doing with the money ?

    A Department for International Development programme that was supposed to create 29,000 jobs in Sierra Leone by this year has created just 16.
    The bit about defence - typical kipper rant with no facts or truth.

    Yet Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond, while claiming on the Andrew Marr Show that Dave did not want to “preside over any further cuts in our Armed Forces”, refused ten times to guarantee there will not be further reductions in military spending. He claimed a final decision would not be made until after the general election.
    and your evidence that this is fantasy is.... ?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,069
    Party leaders challenged to take part in Telegraph's digital debate

    David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg, Nigel Farage and Natalie Bennett from the Greens invited to a filmed debate on March 26 or 27

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/11462718/Party-leaders-challenged-to-take-part-in-Telegraphs-digital-debate.html

    Will Dave be in the internet black hole of Cornwall during these two days?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,805
    Cyclefree said:

    Patrick said:

    The Justine stunt was pure desperation

    It shows weakness. Imagine Putin or any other leader wheeling out their wives or mummies to fight their corner for them.
    Some leaders' wives may be of passing electoral benefit to their husbands - depending on how MILFy they are. (PC lefties can avert their gaze now). I'd gently suggest that Cherie and Justine add precisely nothing to their men's allure whereas Samantha and Miriam are a bit phwoar and at least don't detract. As someone once quipped of Clinton: 'At least we can know he is sexually competent'. !!!
    Personally I feel that I know more about Cherie's sex life than is decent.

    However, in the case of Sam, Miriam and Justine and even Sarah Brown, the question for me is why they settled for such mediocre looking and behaving men when they could have done so much better for themselves.

    Ms Free,

    only if you are shallow enough to think that women should go for 'looks' and behaviour'... ;-)

    (Actually, isn't mediocre behaviour a good thing?)

    They're men who've also made it to the top, or near the top, of their professions. That immediately puts them above me in many ways, and I'm handsome and extremely un-mediocrely behaved. ;-)

    As I've mentioned before, I had a friend at university who was, to say the least, ugly. He was a great bloke, but God had endowed him with a face and body that would have made Quasimodo feel queasy. Yet from the first year he was going out with a lady who was stunningly beautiful. In our youth we all wondered why. Last I heard they are still together and very happy. The answer to our youthful ponderings is easy: they were in love, and their characters melded perfectly.

    (As an aside, I saw your reply to my reply last night re. islamaphobia. I question one or two of your points, but we've both put our positions well (at least you have), so perhaps its best to leave it. Until next time. ;-) )
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,069
    Hillary Clinton deepened the suspicions of her critics on Tuesday when she said that the private server she kept in her home to store her email "contains personal communications from my husband and me".


    There is only one problem with that: just this week a spokesman for Bill Clinton said the former president does not use email at all.


    "The former president, who does regularly use Twitter, has sent a grand total of two emails during his entire life, both as president," Matt McKenna, the spokesman, told the Wall Street Journal.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/11463113/Hillary-Clinton-I-sent-personal-emails-to-my-husband.-Bill-I-dont-use-email.html

    The stink is getting unbearable.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,306
    Going for Beast of Burden in the 1st, can anyone figure out the Queen Mother though ?
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Pulpstar said:

    Going for Beast of Burden in the 1st, can anyone figure out the Queen Mother though ?

    She always was quite the enigma.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited March 2015
    Plato said:

    That's the one - I'd forgotten his name.

    The footballer's wife Karen Parlour today won a landmark court ruling that he must pay her more than a third of his future income in the wake of their divorce.

    The mother-of-three, whose marriage to £1.2 million-a-year Arsenal midfielder Ray Parlour was dissolved in 2002, was told by the Court of Appeal today [two years later] that her award of £250,000 a year personal maintenance would be increased to £406,500, to be reviewed after four years.
    independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/footballers-wife-wins-landmark-divorce-deal-6166049.html


    That appears in keeping with what I have read, if you don't agree a clean break and are instead paying maintenance on a regular basis, the way is open for your ex to go to court and challenge the settlement as insufficient based on your new and improved earnings.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,557

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    Imagine if the Tories win the election without a single Scottish MP. The democratic deficit of the people of Scotland being ruled by a regional party would be huge. An affront to the very notion of democracy © The English Press

    Imagine the SNP are in government without a single English, Welsh or Irish MP. The democratic deficit of 92% of the people of the UK being ruled by a regional (8% UK) party would be huge.......
    How could 52 MP's be ruling the UK you stupid dumpling. The large party as per Tories now make all the decisions and their poodles the Libdems get a few crumbs thrown to keep them in place. You head is addled.
    Lets say that there's a Tory English majority/plurality, but a Labour & SNP coalition/Supply and confidence ends up writing the English laws using a UK majority/plurality. Would that be acceptable to you?

    Lets not forget Labour have form on this introducing Top Up Fees to England which was rejected by English-only MPs but Scottish MPs (knowing that there are no Scottish fees) forced it through.

    That's the problem with Labour trying mess with the Constitution to their advantage. The West Lothian Question was always an issue, its just more obvious when its the SNP voting through English laws against an English opposition majority.
    We have had 300 years of it working the other way round or did you miss that , a few years turnaround does not seem out of place
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Three on the Tory shortlist for Kensington

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31826540
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    From an anthropological perspective, that's a very unusual pairing. Like swans having mistresses.

    I know of a couple that sound very similar - they are the exception that proves the rule.

    We pick mates who are similarly attractive, it's just basic evolution.

    Cyclefree said:

    Patrick said:

    The Justine stunt was pure desperation

    It shows weakness. Imagine Putin or any other leader wheeling out their wives or mummies to fight their corner for them.
    Some leaders' wives may be of passing electoral benefit to their husbands - depending on how MILFy they are. (PC lefties can avert their gaze now). I'd gently suggest that Cherie and Justine add precisely nothing to their men's allure whereas Samantha and Miriam are a bit phwoar and at least don't detract. As someone once quipped of Clinton: 'At least we can know he is sexually competent'. !!!
    Personally I feel that I know more about Cherie's sex life than is decent.

    However, in the case of Sam, Miriam and Justine and even Sarah Brown, the question for me is why they settled for such mediocre looking and behaving men when they could have done so much better for themselves.

    Ms Free,

    only if you are shallow enough to think that women should go for 'looks' and behaviour'... ;-)

    (Actually, isn't mediocre behaviour a good thing?)

    They're men who've also made it to the top, or near the top, of their professions. That immediately puts them above me in many ways, and I'm handsome and extremely un-mediocrely behaved. ;-)

    As I've mentioned before, I had a friend at university who was, to say the least, ugly. He was a great bloke, but God had endowed him with a face and body that would have made Quasimodo feel queasy. Yet from the first year he was going out with a lady who was stunningly beautiful. In our youth we all wondered why. Last I heard they are still together and very happy. The answer to our youthful ponderings is easy: they were in love, and their characters melded perfectly.

    (As an aside, I saw your reply to my reply last night re. islamaphobia. I question one or two of your points, but we've both put our positions well (at least you have), so perhaps its best to leave it. Until next time. ;-) )
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,557

    Mr. Roger, a very good point on gender.

    Mr. G, I watch Top Gear.

    MD, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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    perdix said:

    Indigo said:

    Fighting talk from Gerald Warner:

    When Our Army May be Cut to 50,000, The Smell of Treason is Becoming Offensive

    .........For centuries traitors were hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn who had done less material damage to this country than politicians today. Undermining the defence of the realm is treason. The stench of it is emanating from every aperture in the Palace of Westminster.


    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/11/when-our-army-may-be-cut-to-50000-the-smell-of-treason-is-becoming-offensive/

    Its a good rant, I particularly like the following article of truth

    The Vichy Tories don’t want to tell the electorate they intend to dismantle what little remains of this nation’s defences and risk losing votes. All major policy decisions that are monstrously opposed to the national interest are nowadays postponed until after the voters have been conned. The government then claims a “mandate” for whatever it wants to do, often by consensus of all three legacy parties, and democracy is further subverted.

    This was a bit of an eye opener as well, WTF are they doing with the money ?

    A Department for International Development programme that was supposed to create 29,000 jobs in Sierra Leone by this year has created just 16.
    The bit about defence - typical kipper rant with no facts or truth.

    perdix said:

    Indigo said:

    Fighting talk from Gerald Warner:

    When Our Army May be Cut to 50,000, The Smell of Treason is Becoming Offensive


    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/11/when-our-army-may-be-cut-to-50000-the-smell-of-treason-is-becoming-offensive/

    Its a good rant, I particularly like the following article of truth

    The Vichy Tories don’t want to tell the electorate they intend to dismantle wha.

    This was a bit of an eye opener as well, WTF are they doing with the money ?

    A Department for International Development programme that was supposed to create 29,000 jobs in Sierra Leone by this year has created just 16.
    The bit about defence - typical kipper rant with no facts or truth.

    So are the Tories going to commit to spending 2% of GDP in the next government or are they going to forsake their NATO agreement? We have been told time and again that international agreements are sacrosanct in the view of the Tories. So will they live up to it or not?
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Re. Clarkson:

    I'm conflicted over this. On one hand, the 'crime' that got him his final warning seemed little more than a pathetic put-up job. On the other, attempting to punch a colleague is wrong, but I'm not sure a suspension is valid (the devil will be in the details of what happened, and we only have one side of the story).

    However: many of us have complained in the past over the BBC's somewhat lax attitude towards what could be called 'talent': from before Saville, there appeared to have been a rather sinister attitude about what talent could get away with. First with Carol Thatcher, and now with Clarkson, we have had firm, immediate action for incidents that occurred off-air.

    I wait for baited breath for the same to happen to some of the left-wing 'talent'. Hopefully such a brave new attitude on the BBC's part would not be politically biased ...

    I see the BBC has finally run an investigation into child abuse and trafficking.

    In China.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Financier said:

    O/T GBP now at Euro 1.4224!

    Accounts are desperately hedging as I write. It's rapidly looking more like bloody topiary it's getting that involved.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,557
    Pulpstar said:

    Going for Beast of Burden in the 1st, can anyone figure out the Queen Mother though ?

    Tough race but Sire De Grugy looked really good in recent win , not great race but giving lumps of weight and won by a mile after superb jumping
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,300
    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,067
    edited March 2015

    Re. Clarkson:

    I'm conflicted over this. On one hand, the 'crime' that got him his final warning seemed little more than a pathetic put-up job. On the other, attempting to punch a colleague is wrong, but I'm not sure a suspension is valid (the devil will be in the details of what happened, and we only have one side of the story).

    However: many of us have complained in the past over the BBC's somewhat lax attitude towards what could be called 'talent': from before Saville, there appeared to have been a rather sinister attitude about what talent could get away with. First with Carol Thatcher, and now with Clarkson, we have had firm, immediate action for incidents that occurred off-air.

    I wait for baited breath for the same to happen to some of the left-wing 'talent'. Hopefully such a brave new attitude on the BBC's part would not be politically biased ...

    Tw@tting a colleague is gross misconduct, you would normally suspend while carrying out an investigation and, if proved (on a balance of probabilities basis) dismiss summarily. Can't see why Clarkson should be treated any differently to hoi polloi.

    Personally I would have liked to see bank executives summarily dismissed during the banking crisis, and newspaper executives likewise over phone hacking. No notice, no pay in lieu of notice, no compensation for loss of office, no ex gratia payments. It would show it was being taken seriously.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,069
    With Jeremy Clarkson suspended, here's my vision for an eco-feminist Top Gear

    http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2015/mar/11/jeremy-clarkson-suspended-eco-feminist-top-gear

    I can't wait....
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    Actually, I think there is a three way split, with the majority waiting to know the whole story before condemning or condoning.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,306
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Going for Beast of Burden in the 1st, can anyone figure out the Queen Mother though ?

    Tough race but Sire De Grugy looked really good in recent win , not great race but giving lumps of weight and won by a mile after superb jumping
    Ye I backed him last year, Skybet have gone 5.0 on him right now, 1/4 odds the place which compares favourably with Betfair (4.5/1.72).

  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited March 2015
    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    Tw@tting a colleague is gross misconduct, you would normally suspend while carrying out an investigation and, if proved (on a balance of probabilities basis) dismiss summarily. Can't see why Clarkson should be treated any differently to hoi polloi.

    I am not saying he shouldn't be sacked, I am just saying he wont care, he has huge loads of royalties he will continue to receive from BBC Worldwide, and a long list of other content companies hanging on the phone waving their chequebooks at him, hardly a salutary lesson. Cost to the BBC $300m, cost the Clarkson $0, not sure who loses.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TGOHF said:

    Matthew Moore ‏@mattmoorek 2m2 minutes ago

    FUKP candidate @almurray will parachute into South Thanet on Friday to launch his bid to win the seat. With an actual parachute.

    Will Farage be flying in the plane? If so it's safer than landing.
    What's the relevance of that? Has Farage ever flown a plane before?
  • Options
    What darn business is it of Breitbart.com -- an American site founded by a far-right American so purple with rage he died of a heart attack in his mid-40s -- how big the British army is?!
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Indigo said:

    Plato said:

    That's the one - I'd forgotten his name.

    The footballer's wife Karen Parlour today won a landmark court ruling that he must pay her more than a third of his future income in the wake of their divorce.

    The mother-of-three, whose marriage to £1.2 million-a-year Arsenal midfielder Ray Parlour was dissolved in 2002, was told by the Court of Appeal today [two years later] that her award of £250,000 a year personal maintenance would be increased to £406,500, to be reviewed after four years.
    independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/footballers-wife-wins-landmark-divorce-deal-6166049.html
    That appears in keeping with what I have read, if you don't agree a clean break and are instead paying maintenance on a regular basis, the way is open for your ex to go to court and challenge the settlement as insufficient based on your new and improved earnings.


    I have always found it mystifying how these huge divorce grants are made. It is only right that should one parent give up a career to provide for the family that they should be recompensed for lost potential earnings. But it is hard to imagine Karen Parlour lost out on £406,500 a year by marrying Ray and staying at home. Such awards seem to serve mainly to discourage high earners from marriage, which is a loss to society as a whole.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    What darn business is it of Breitbart.com -- an American site founded by a far-right American so purple with rage he died of a heart attack in his mid-40s -- how big the British army is?!

    I think America might be in NATO, and we might have made commitments to NATO on military spending.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    What darn business is it of Breitbart.com -- an American site founded by a far-right American so purple with rage he died of a heart attack in his mid-40s -- how big the British army is?!

    Bit of an insular view comrade. Should British newspapers only discuss what happens here and ignore the rest of the world?
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Indigo said:

    Fighting talk from Gerald Warner:

    When Our Army May be Cut to 50,000, The Smell of Treason is Becoming Offensive

    .........For centuries traitors were hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn who had done less material damage to this country than politicians today. Undermining the defence of the realm is treason. The stench of it is emanating from every aperture in the Palace of Westminster.


    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/11/when-our-army-may-be-cut-to-50000-the-smell-of-treason-is-becoming-offensive/

    Its a good rant, I particularly like the following article of truth

    The Vichy Tories don’t want to tell the electorate they intend to dismantle what little remains of this nation’s defences and risk losing votes. All major policy decisions that are monstrously opposed to the national interest are nowadays postponed until after the voters have been conned. The government then claims a “mandate” for whatever it wants to do, often by consensus of all three legacy parties, and democracy is further subverted.

    This was a bit of an eye opener as well, WTF are they doing with the money ?

    A Department for International Development programme that was supposed to create 29,000 jobs in Sierra Leone by this year has created just 16.
    The line about postponing until after elections struck a chord with me. It was just Monday when Philip Hammond was arguing that new powers for the security services would be decided just after the general election. Whatever your views on whether such additional powers are required or not, we should all be able to agree that attempting to avoid the voters engaging on such issues turns voters off the whole system.
  • Options

    With Jeremy Clarkson suspended, here's my vision for an eco-feminist Top Gear

    http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2015/mar/11/jeremy-clarkson-suspended-eco-feminist-top-gear

    I can't wait....

    Zoe Williams is such an urban liberal victim. I love the bit where she says Like In Star Trek. How twee.

    It reminds me of that joke about how Labour party members make amorous advances toward each other. One says to the other:

    Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated
  • Options
    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    welshowl said:

    Financier said:

    O/T GBP now at Euro 1.4224!

    Accounts are desperately hedging as I write. It's rapidly looking more like bloody topiary it's getting that involved.
    Bottom of the major break lower from around 9 years ago was 1.4324..i presume that is what we will bounce off.
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Matthew Moore ‏@mattmoorek 2m2 minutes ago

    FUKP candidate @almurray will parachute into South Thanet on Friday to launch his bid to win the seat. With an actual parachute.

    Will Farage be flying in the plane? If so it's safer than landing.
    What's the relevance of that? Has Farage ever flown a plane before?
    He has some previous with light aircraft...

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=farage+plane+crash&biw=1876&bih=982&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aSUAVeLGC8yxUZCFg6gI&ved=0CCAQsAQ&dpr=0.9
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    JEO said:

    Indigo said:

    Plato said:

    That's the one - I'd forgotten his name.

    The footballer's wife Karen Parlour today won a landmark court ruling that he must pay her more than a third of his future income in the wake of their divorce.

    The mother-of-three, whose marriage to £1.2 million-a-year Arsenal midfielder Ray Parlour was dissolved in 2002, was told by the Court of Appeal today [two years later] that her award of £250,000 a year personal maintenance would be increased to £406,500, to be reviewed after four years.
    independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/footballers-wife-wins-landmark-divorce-deal-6166049.html
    That appears in keeping with what I have read, if you don't agree a clean break and are instead paying maintenance on a regular basis, the way is open for your ex to go to court and challenge the settlement as insufficient based on your new and improved earnings.
    I have always found it mystifying how these huge divorce grants are made. It is only right that should one parent give up a career to provide for the family that they should be recompensed for lost potential earnings. But it is hard to imagine Karen Parlour lost out on £406,500 a year by marrying Ray and staying at home. Such awards seem to serve mainly to discourage high earners from marriage, which is a loss to society as a whole.

    Indeed. At least that idiocy is starting to fade. The appeal court issued a pretty unsympathetic judgement on the subject a week or so ago.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11429864/Divorced-wife-told-to-get-a-job-and-stop-living-off-her-ex.html
    A family judge's reaction was to respond to Mrs Wright, of Wickhambrook, Newmarket, with "harsh words."

    The mother was told to "just get on with it" and get a job, like "vast numbers of other women with children."

    Lord Justice Pitchford, sitting at the Court of Appeal, has now rejected her challenge to the decision to slash her future maintenance.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,784
    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    Tw@tting a colleague is gross misconduct, you would normally suspend while carrying out an investigation and, if proved (on a balance of probabilities basis) dismiss summarily. Can't see why Clarkson should be treated any differently to hoi polloi.

    I am not saying he shouldn't be sacked, I am just saying he wont care, he has huge loads of royalties he will continue to receive from BBC Worldwide, and a long list of other content companies hanging on the phone waving their chequebooks at him, hardly a salutary lesson. Cost to the BBC $300m, cost the Clarkson $0, not sure who loses.
    On that basis, investment banks shouldn't fire employees guilty of - say - insider trading, if they are profitable members of the firm.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,306
    Pulpstar's Day 2 plays:

    Beast of Burden 0.5 pts E/W (Raceclear tip) @ 12-1
    Don Poli 1 pt Win @ 7-4; Favourable notes from Peter the Punter
    Sire De Grugy (Malcy G recommendation) 1 Pt EW @ 4-1.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,425
    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    I think this should be put to the test and you should do an ad with him Roger.
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2015
    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    Interesting. Do you have a link to any report that he 'smacked an underling in the mouth'? Everyone else seems to think a punch was merely thrown, without connecting.

    It's hardly a 'Prescott', and many on the Left loved that.

    (Clarkson is *extremely* litigious BTW).
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    When I got divorced, I didn't make any claim on my husband's business or income [in millions]. We carved up what we'd bought and I paid him over £100k to keep our house.

    I've a really strong view about this whole subject. I may have influenced him to become very successful, but he did it. I'd feel grubby trying to extract £££ from his future life.

    He lent me £10k yrs after when I needed it, and I repaid him when he needed it back to fix a problem. That's what I consider fair and respectful between two people. We're not married, but we're still together for life.
    JEO said:

    Indigo said:

    Plato said:

    That's the one - I'd forgotten his name.

    The footballer's wife Karen Parlour today won a landmark court ruling that he must pay her more than a third of his future income in the wake of their divorce.

    The mother-of-three, whose marriage to £1.2 million-a-year Arsenal midfielder Ray Parlour was dissolved in 2002, was told by the Court of Appeal today [two years later] that her award of £250,000 a year personal maintenance would be increased to £406,500, to be reviewed after four years.
    independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/footballers-wife-wins-landmark-divorce-deal-6166049.html
    That appears in keeping with what I have read, if you don't agree a clean break and are instead paying maintenance on a regular basis, the way is open for your ex to go to court and challenge the settlement as insufficient based on your new and improved earnings.
    I have always found it mystifying how these huge divorce grants are made. It is only right that should one parent give up a career to provide for the family that they should be recompensed for lost potential earnings. But it is hard to imagine Karen Parlour lost out on £406,500 a year by marrying Ray and staying at home. Such awards seem to serve mainly to discourage high earners from marriage, which is a loss to society as a whole.

  • Options
    Hengists_GiftHengists_Gift Posts: 628
    edited March 2015

    What darn business is it of Breitbart.com -- an American site founded by a far-right American so purple with rage he died of a heart attack in his mid-40s -- how big the British army is?!

    1) Breitbart London is a British site with British writers
    2) Gerald Warner Is a Scot and so his views are just as relevant as any other British writer
    3) The US is our primary ally in defence and therefore would be entitled to take a view on such matters anyway.
    4) As to the former owner unless you believe in the after life clearly he had absolutely nothing to do with and took no view on this article.

    PS The Indy and Evening Standard are owned by a former senior member of the KGB. Should we equally disregard everything those papers say because of their ownership?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,306
    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    Tw@tting a colleague is gross misconduct, you would normally suspend while carrying out an investigation and, if proved (on a balance of probabilities basis) dismiss summarily. Can't see why Clarkson should be treated any differently to hoi polloi.

    I am not saying he shouldn't be sacked, I am just saying he wont care, he has huge loads of royalties he will continue to receive from BBC Worldwide, and a long list of other content companies hanging on the phone waving their chequebooks at him, hardly a salutary lesson. Cost to the BBC $300m, cost the Clarkson $0, not sure who loses.
    On that basis, investment banks shouldn't fire employees guilty of - say - insider trading, if they are profitable members of the firm.
    You only tend to hear about the traders that made supernormal losses being hung out to dry though, there simply must be some that have made supernormal profits and acted well outside their remit.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,228
    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    I am not nice. I am nasty, brutish and very VERY short.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Small Is Beautiful!
    JohnO said:

    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    I am not nice. I am nasty, brutish and very VERY short.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2015
    Gadfly said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Matthew Moore ‏@mattmoorek 2m2 minutes ago

    FUKP candidate @almurray will parachute into South Thanet on Friday to launch his bid to win the seat. With an actual parachute.

    Will Farage be flying in the plane? If so it's safer than landing.
    What's the relevance of that? Has Farage ever flown a plane before?
    He has some previous with light aircraft...

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=farage+plane+crash&biw=1876&bih=982&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aSUAVeLGC8yxUZCFg6gI&ved=0CCAQsAQ&dpr=0.9
    Ha yeah I know but

    (A) is it really a joking matter someone almost dying in a plane crash, even if they do want to leave the EU
    (B) he wasn't the pilot so @logical_song attempt at humour was based on a falsehood as well as being unfunny and in bad taste
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    Tw@tting a colleague is gross misconduct, you would normally suspend while carrying out an investigation and, if proved (on a balance of probabilities basis) dismiss summarily. Can't see why Clarkson should be treated any differently to hoi polloi.

    I am not saying he shouldn't be sacked, I am just saying he wont care, he has huge loads of royalties he will continue to receive from BBC Worldwide, and a long list of other content companies hanging on the phone waving their chequebooks at him, hardly a salutary lesson. Cost to the BBC $300m, cost the Clarkson $0, not sure who loses.
    On that basis, investment banks shouldn't fire employees guilty of - say - insider trading, if they are profitable members of the firm.
    Talented people tend to stay with their existing companies and not earn their full potential for one of two reasons, sloth or loyalty. If they are sacked both those are bypassed.

    If you sack that investment bank employee and he walks out the door, across the road and sits down in your competitors office, takes a 20% pay rise, and continues to do the job he did before making his (new) employer lots of money, I am not sure who is being punished.

    If you claim he would not be able to do that because of legal or reputation issues, then I would suggest the cases are not comparable, since Clarkson conspicuously has people biting his arm off to sprinkle money over his head.


  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,228
    Plato said:

    Small Is Beautiful!

    JohnO said:

    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    I am not nice. I am nasty, brutish and very VERY short.
    I shall return in my next life as a maine coon kitten.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,557
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Going for Beast of Burden in the 1st, can anyone figure out the Queen Mother though ?

    Tough race but Sire De Grugy looked really good in recent win , not great race but giving lumps of weight and won by a mile after superb jumping
    Ye I backed him last year, Skybet have gone 5.0 on him right now, 1/4 odds the place which compares favourably with Betfair (4.5/1.72).

    It is real tough today , I put my horses up earlier , but am just backing 3 of Nicholls today. Though I will need to back Sire De Grugy now
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Indigo said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    Tw@tting a colleague is gross misconduct, you would normally suspend while carrying out an investigation and, if proved (on a balance of probabilities basis) dismiss summarily. Can't see why Clarkson should be treated any differently to hoi polloi.

    I am not saying he shouldn't be sacked, I am just saying he wont care, he has huge loads of royalties he will continue to receive from BBC Worldwide, and a long list of other content companies hanging on the phone waving their chequebooks at him, hardly a salutary lesson. Cost to the BBC $300m, cost the Clarkson $0, not sure who loses.
    On that basis, investment banks shouldn't fire employees guilty of - say - insider trading, if they are profitable members of the firm.
    Talented people tend to stay with their existing companies and not earn their full potential for one of two reasons, sloth or loyalty. If they are sacked both those are bypassed.

    If you sack that investment bank employee and he walks out the door, across the road and sits down in your competitors office, takes a 20% pay rise, and continues to do the job he did before making his (new) employer lots of money, I am not sure who is being punished.

    If you claim he would not be able to do that because of legal or reputation issues, then I would suggest the cases are not comparable, since Clarkson conspicuously has people biting his arm off to sprinkle money over his head.


    Sacking an employee should not be about punishment. It should be about whether the relationship of trust and confidence has irretrievably broken down. Someone else may be able to establish such a relationship but if that employee has by their conduct with you made it impossible to work in a manner consistent with your values, you should either reconsider your values or part company. It's almost always the correct option to part company, unless your values are ill thought-through. Compromising your values is more likely to lead to more damage in the longer term.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,557
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar's Day 2 plays:

    Beast of Burden 0.5 pts E/W (Raceclear tip) @ 12-1
    Don Poli 1 pt Win @ 7-4; Favourable notes from Peter the Punter
    Sire De Grugy (Malcy G recommendation) 1 Pt EW @ 4-1.

    Ladbrokes now at 5-2 on Sire
  • Options
    JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    This really is a great insight into the mindset of the intractable far right PB Tories - if you are rich and powerful enough you should be able to get away with anything, whilst the plebs must suffer in silence. Basically the foundation stones of fascism.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,162
    Mr. Wisemann, you naughty little trouser-pulling tinker ;)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306
    Financier said:

    Scotland's public finances have improved according to the latest Scottish government figures, but remain worse than the UK average.

    The country's net fiscal balance - or deficit - was £12.4bn in the red in 2013/14, down from £14.3bn in a year.

    This includes revenue from the oil and gas industry deemed to be in Scottish waters.

    On the same basis, Scotland raised £54bn in taxes in 2013/14, which amounts to £10,100 per person.

    That figure is £400 more than the UK average.

    But public expenditure in Scotland in the same period was also higher than the UK average - at £66.4bn or 9.2% of total UK spending. Scotland has 8.3% of the UK population.

    That amounts to £12,500 per person, £1,200 more than the UK average.

    Measuring the deficit as a share of economic output, Scotland performs substantially worse than the UK average.

    Scotland's deficit as a share of GDP fell from 9.7% in 2012/13 to 8.1% in 2013/14 but was higher than the United Kingdom average of 5.6%.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31831857

    I'm pretty sure Scotland is the only thing keeping the UK afloat.....at least that is what we have been told on here so many times.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT More TV stuff - Just watching The Boss with Kelsey Grammer, it's rather good. I don't much like Frasier either as I find it contrived, so this is high praise from me. I detested Unbreakable - Kimmy Schmidt. So many cliches and plot device exposition characters, I can't even begin to list them.

    The Fall is another one that I find oddly intriguing, terrible cliches/melodrama, but some of the baddies save the show. SiLK similarly so [I preferred Rupert Pendry-Thingy in Whitechapel]. I watched the remake of Hawaii-Five-O and fell about laughing. It's such total cobblers.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2015
    JohnO said:

    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    I am not nice. I am nasty, brutish and very VERY short.
    Of course you are, you're a PB Tory .... and you forget your gastronomic inclination for the newly born. :yum:

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,306
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Going for Beast of Burden in the 1st, can anyone figure out the Queen Mother though ?

    Tough race but Sire De Grugy looked really good in recent win , not great race but giving lumps of weight and won by a mile after superb jumping
    Ye I backed him last year, Skybet have gone 5.0 on him right now, 1/4 odds the place which compares favourably with Betfair (4.5/1.72).

    It is real tough today , I put my horses up earlier , but am just backing 3 of Nicholls today. Though I will need to back Sire De Grugy now
    Champagne Fever out !

    So 15 pence rule 4 on my bet now, but I was considering backing him... so could work out OK.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2015

    With Jeremy Clarkson suspended, here's my vision for an eco-feminist Top Gear

    http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2015/mar/11/jeremy-clarkson-suspended-eco-feminist-top-gear

    I can't wait....

    Only in The Grauniad could an out of touch writer, sing the praises of a hybrid BMW that costs over £100,000.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    antifrank said:

    Indigo said:

    rcs1000 said:



    On that basis, investment banks shouldn't fire employees guilty of - say - insider trading, if they are profitable members of the firm.

    Talented people tend to stay with their existing companies and not earn their full potential for one of two reasons, sloth or loyalty. If they are sacked both those are bypassed.

    If you sack that investment bank employee and he walks out the door, across the road and sits down in your competitors office, takes a 20% pay rise, and continues to do the job he did before making his (new) employer lots of money, I am not sure who is being punished.

    If you claim he would not be able to do that because of legal or reputation issues, then I would suggest the cases are not comparable, since Clarkson conspicuously has people biting his arm off to sprinkle money over his head.


    Sacking an employee should not be about punishment. It should be about whether the relationship of trust and confidence has irretrievably broken down. Someone else may be able to establish such a relationship but if that employee has by their conduct with you made it impossible to work in a manner consistent with your values, you should either reconsider your values or part company. It's almost always the correct option to part company, unless your values are ill thought-through. Compromising your values is more likely to lead to more damage in the longer term.
    Absolutely. That was never my contention. I was merely suggesting that people of a left leaning persuasion who thought that a person they didn't have much time for, and cordially disliked would be receiving his just deserts might be rather far from the truth. The reality is more likely to be that he takes a similar job for someone else with better compensation and continues to do much as he did before.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,306
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar's Day 2 plays:

    Beast of Burden 0.5 pts E/W (Raceclear tip) @ 12-1
    Don Poli 1 pt Win @ 7-4; Favourable notes from Peter the Punter
    Sire De Grugy (Malcy G recommendation) 1 Pt EW @ 4-1.

    Ladbrokes now at 5-2 on Sire
    Champagne Fever is a NR.

    I think he was pulled at 5-1, though I note BoyleSports have him at last price 5-2. #Dodgy
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,557
    Is it any wonder Labour are doing badly in Scotland, assuming all voters are idiots is not the best strategy.
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/ten-bad-reasons/
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    JWisemann said:

    This really is a great insight into the mindset of the intractable far right PB Tories - if you are rich and powerful enough you should be able to get away with anything, whilst the plebs must suffer in silence. Basically the foundation stones of fascism.

    Meanwhile PB Lefties as usual are so wrapped up in their idealism that they fail to distinguish what they would like to happen, and possibly even what should happen with what will actually happen. More critically they over look the likely real world effects of their self righteous but badly thought out actions.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 19,300
    JohnO

    "I am not nice. I am nasty, brutish and very VERY short."

    You're not VERY short. And anyway who would worry if you're nasty and brutish if you're very short?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,557
    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    Scotland's public finances have improved according to the latest Scottish government figures, but remain worse than the UK average.

    The country's net fiscal balance - or deficit - was £12.4bn in the red in 2013/14, down from £14.3bn in a year.

    This includes revenue from the oil and gas industry deemed to be in Scottish waters.

    On the same basis, Scotland raised £54bn in taxes in 2013/14, which amounts to £10,100 per person.

    That figure is £400 more than the UK average.

    But public expenditure in Scotland in the same period was also higher than the UK average - at £66.4bn or 9.2% of total UK spending. Scotland has 8.3% of the UK population.

    That amounts to £12,500 per person, £1,200 more than the UK average.

    Measuring the deficit as a share of economic output, Scotland performs substantially worse than the UK average.

    Scotland's deficit as a share of GDP fell from 9.7% in 2012/13 to 8.1% in 2013/14 but was higher than the United Kingdom average of 5.6%.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31831857

    I'm pretty sure Scotland is the only thing keeping the UK afloat.....at least that is what we have been told on here so many times.
    Glad that at least one person has seen the light
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,069
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31834058

    It appears James May lives in a lock-up garage :-)

    Given it is London, it is probably a £3 million lock-up garage.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,191
    Anybody know if we're expecting Mori today or tomorrow?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,557
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar's Day 2 plays:

    Beast of Burden 0.5 pts E/W (Raceclear tip) @ 12-1
    Don Poli 1 pt Win @ 7-4; Favourable notes from Peter the Punter
    Sire De Grugy (Malcy G recommendation) 1 Pt EW @ 4-1.

    Ladbrokes now at 5-2 on Sire
    Champagne Fever is a NR.

    I think he was pulled at 5-1, though I note BoyleSports have him at last price 5-2. #Dodgy
    still at least 3 in with good shout
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Is this the UK's biggest cat? Meet Ludo the supersized Maine Coon moggy who is THREE TIMES the size of the average puss (and is still growing)

    The huge cat already tips the scales at 24.5lbs (11kg) and is 45 inches long
    He is only 17 months old and is set to continue growing
    Maine Coon cats are known as ‘the gentle giants’ of the cat world
    Owner Kelsey Gill says: ‘Even though he’s huge he’s friendly and lovable.'


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2988448/Meet-Ludo-supersized-Maine-Coon-moggy-THREE-TIMES-size-average-puss-growing.html#ixzz3U4p19j5p
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    JohnO said:

    Plato said:

    Small Is Beautiful!

    JohnO said:

    Roger said:

    Well it looks like the thread splits down the middle when it comes to Clarkson. Those on the Right-the followers of Guido-think it's OK to smack an underling in the mouth because he hasn't brought your dinner on time and those on the left plus the nicest of Tories such as JohnO disagree

    I am not nice. I am nasty, brutish and very VERY short.
    I shall return in my next life as a maine coon kitten.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited March 2015
    @Indigo
    Stars should be able to do what they like?
    Same as any other wealthy, powerful, privileged person?
    I am glad to see the subservient serf gene still runs strong in our Anglo Saxon relatives.
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    malcolmg said:

    Is it any wonder Labour are doing badly in Scotland, assuming all voters are idiots is not the best strategy.
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/ten-bad-reasons/

    A very good critique of flawed soundbites
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,425
    Roger said:

    JohnO

    "I am not nice. I am nasty, brutish and very VERY short."

    You're not VERY short. And anyway who would worry if you're nasty and brutish if you're very short?

    have you ever upset a honey badger ?
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    "The Indy and Evening Standard are owned by a former senior member of the KGB. Should we equally disregard everything those papers say because of their ownership?"

    Never look at the Indy or 'i'. I certainly perceive the editor of the Standard to be an oleaginous toad who's fond of his own face, and wouldn't pick up his paper if it 1) wasn't free, and 2) didn't have the occasional perceptive book and film review, if that helps.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,306
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar's Day 2 plays:

    Beast of Burden 0.5 pts E/W (Raceclear tip) @ 12-1
    Don Poli 1 pt Win @ 7-4; Favourable notes from Peter the Punter
    Sire De Grugy (Malcy G recommendation) 1 Pt EW @ 4-1.

    Ladbrokes now at 5-2 on Sire
    Champagne Fever is a NR.

    I think he was pulled at 5-1, though I note BoyleSports have him at last price 5-2. #Dodgy
    still at least 3 in with good shout
    Of course but personally I think Champagne Fever being withdrawn is well worth the 15p.
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    Indigo said:

    JWisemann said:

    This really is a great insight into the mindset of the intractable far right PB Tories - if you are rich and powerful enough you should be able to get away with anything, whilst the plebs must suffer in silence. Basically the foundation stones of fascism.

    Meanwhile PB Lefties as usual are so wrapped up in their idealism that they fail to distinguish what they would like to happen, and possibly even what should happen with what will actually happen. More critically they over look the likely real world effects of their self righteous but badly thought out actions.
    It always amuses me when left wingers start ranting about such things because most of those poor plebs who 'must suffer in silence' can be found in seats which have voted Labour solidly for generations. Decades of Labour leadership have got them nowhere but there again its part of Labour's makeup that they like to keep their supporters poor and needy.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,306
    edited March 2015
    malcolmg said:

    Is it any wonder Labour are doing badly in Scotland, assuming all voters are idiots is not the best strategy.
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/ten-bad-reasons/

    Kezia Dugdale's recent "performance" on Question Time was very reassuring as an SNP backer. So too was Danny's for that matter, I mean he was good but the angle won't appeal to Scottish liberals I think.

    Kezia was just plain dreadful.
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    malcolmg said:

    Is it any wonder Labour are doing badly in Scotland, assuming all voters are idiots is not the best strategy.
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/ten-bad-reasons/

    A very good critique of flawed soundbites
    Agreed. I will also add that it seems rather stale to me. It's what you would expect from a Labour leaflet and there's nothing particularly eye catching.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @jwisemann

    'This really is a great insight into the mindset of the intractable far right PB Tories - if you are rich and powerful enough you should be able to get away with anything, whilst the plebs must suffer in silence. Basically the foundation stones of fascism.'

    Does that include the BBC?
This discussion has been closed.