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  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    I would love to know what the Tory Party are paying these advisers they have brought in. Backed into a corner over the TV debates and is now known as the Poultry PM. Then I assume to take the headlines off the TV debates, announces, Vote Tory bring back fox hunting. One word.....BRILLIANT!

    What do foxes hunt? Makes sense.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2015

    Alistair said:

    Continuing my Ashcroft trawl.

    Constituencies where the SNP has out preformed the Area Yes Vote (in percentage points):

    Cumbernauld (+0.9%)
    Dundee West (+1.7%)
    Gordon (+3.4%) **Alex Salmond Standing**
    Inverness (+2.9%) Toast

    What's your source for Yes vote by constituency, please?
    Painfully going through each council area and roughly mapping them to Constituencies. So there is no subtlety to the process at all. My Glasgow ones will be well out as I half arsed mapping the Holyrood constituencies (which were used for the breakdown of results) to the Westminster constituencies.

    You can see what I thought for each constituency in my SMAPS document in column S

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sAVzqjn9iA10c1wVlAwCiR0ycue0P83ixV-Zsak3ufs/edit?usp=sharing

    EDIT: If anyone feels like I'v made a large error with a constituency Yes vote then please let me know.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Rewatching 1992 - if its a repeat of that (2% swing and effectively 4% with more marginals going red), Dave is toast !

    Miliband could be PM even if he gets 2m less votes than Kinnock got in 1992...
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    I wonder how long before someone decide to use the old faithful that those criticising Cameron's stance or tactics are doing it just because they don't like Cameron or the Tories or don't want them to win the election. Cannot be long, as we're already getting hints of the 'normal people don't care about this political stuff so you're all being stupid for thinking it has any impact at all' arguments which never need to be made because everyone already knows normal people only very rarely pay attention to this sort of thing.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    notme said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    If the is a question on the spare room subsidy in the 6 person debate - all 6 will venehmently agree that taxpayers should cough up for spare rooms for those not working... Including Farage.

    Awww whazza matter don't you like standing all alone on a piece of legislation that has always been decidedly dubious. Would you like us Kippers to hold you wittle hand and say its wonderful when it isn't?

    PS It is however a very good example of why Dave would want to stay away from the debates because no question he would get beaten up on that issue.
    I'd like to see Farage stick up for subsidising empty space at the taxpayers expense. Suspect it will be ditched in the manifesto,
    I doubt it. From what I can see it was bad legislation and bad legislation should be scrapped. As I understand it in numerous cases those rooms were never empty and saying they were was just a rather malevolent piece of propaganda from Tory stooges but hey if you think banging on about it serves the Tory purposes carry on.
    The government used the same room criteria and need as set down in the 2007 local housing allowances. If it is empty in the private sector, surely the social sector is the same?

    Some people have bare faced cheek. Not only do they want me to pay for a roof over their head, they want a spare room in case Auntie June wants to visit.
    Why are Oldies spared this wonderful piece of legislation when they have the most spare rooms and receive more taxpayers money than any other section of society.

    Clue because there would be uproar from people who mainly vote Tory
    Which is the reason why social housing rules and private renting rules were split in 2007. Because those in social housing disproportionately vote Labour.

    Shock news, politicians give tax breaks/ extra spending to those groups that support it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Continuing my Ashcroft trawl.

    Constituencies where the SNP has out preformed the Area Yes Vote (in percentage points):

    Cumbernauld (+0.9%)
    Dundee West (+1.7%)
    Gordon (+3.4%) **Alex Salmond Standing**
    Inverness (+2.9%) Toast

    What's your source for Yes vote by constituency, please?
    Painfully going through each council area and roughly mapping them to Constituencies. So there is no subtlety to the process at all. My Glasgow ones will be well out as I half arsed mapping the Holyrood constituencies (which were used for the breakdown of results) to the Westminster constituencies.

    You can see what I thought for each constituency in my SMAPS document in column S

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sAVzqjn9iA10c1wVlAwCiR0ycue0P83ixV-Zsak3ufs/edit?usp=sharing

    EDIT: If anyone feels like I'v made a large error with a constituency Yes vote then please let me know.
    Speaking of spreadsheets.. has anyone heard from AndyJS recently? Would be a shame if he left for good due to that silly evasion/avoidance thing.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    OT I must commend the thread header for it's balance and lack of hysteria. On this occasion OGH has called it correctly - we won't know whether No 10 has called it correctly for some time. My own view is that by their nature, these debates favour the opposition and the underdogs, so I'm content with the No10 strategy.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Perdix, Clegg challenged Farage to a head to head before the Euros, it was more one sided than anybody could have predicted. Several times a week Farage holds public meetings and hustings, he's been doing it for 20 years. The others are accustomed to stage managed PR events with planted questions.

    The reporting was that the political journos at the debate thought Mr Clegg had won, it wasn't until the polls came in they realised he hadn't.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Average Constituency Scores 3.3 points fewer SNP than the Yes vote with a Standard Devaition of 5.1 percentage points.

    Removing Glasgow NE and Grdon which are the two outliers at either end and that becomes 3 points fewer and a StdDev of 4.1

    The 3 points fewer basically covers the Greens in my view.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    edited March 2015

    kle4 said:

    Evening all and I do hope Dave sticks to his guns. The debates ruined the 2010 General Election because they became the only game in town. Politicians seeking election should be meeting voters not the same group of London chatterati they surround themselves with all yrrent seat.

    I agree totally, the idea that thie voting them off?
    Some may be using standard political hyperbole to describe the potential consequences, but that doesn't make the idea of the debates themselves ridiculous, particularly when we know Cameron does not share genuine antipathy for them (at least, not so much that could not be overcome if he thought he would benefit, as shown by his willingness to attend the debates last time). It doesn't automatically follow that the debates are a good thing of course, but the implied insistence from some corners that they have an undue influence that is wholly wrong, when other campaigning impacts are not, is far more pathetic as I see it than people engaging in hyperbole, which to bookend this paragraph, is entirely standard stuff.
    Style over substance, total bollocks
    That's a valid opinion to hold. Cameron clearly doesn't hold it given he was fine with them last time, but that too is a valid opinion for him to hold. But I do think we're on slippery ground if we decide some types of campaigning are bollocks (and thus shouldn't be allowed to happen) over others.

    I happen to think a piece of A5 paper with a couple of hundred words and some stock photos, which may or may not have any direct relevance to the constituency it is mailed in, and which is full of ridiculous spin either way, is not a very good basis for people to make up their minds, or contribute significantly to them making up their minds at any rate, but parties still stuff them through letter slots to make that happen all the same (yes I know they have other purposes, but it is at least partly designed to be about swaying the wavering).

    But I'm sure someone being swayed by five carefully spun and probably contextless bulletpoints of text and a photo of a grinning Nick Clegg (as a hypothetical example), or a billboard of a wrecking ball and the opposing party's name, is nothing but pure substance. Why, if it was not particularly substantive, we should not have them at all, right?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Continuing my Ashcroft trawl.

    Constituencies where the SNP has out preformed the Area Yes Vote (in percentage points):

    Cumbernauld (+0.9%)
    Dundee West (+1.7%)
    Gordon (+3.4%) **Alex Salmond Standing**
    Inverness (+2.9%) Toast

    What's your source for Yes vote by constituency, please?
    Painfully going through each council area and roughly mapping them to Constituencies. So there is no subtlety to the process at all. My Glasgow ones will be well out as I half arsed mapping the Holyrood constituencies (which were used for the breakdown of results) to the Westminster constituencies.

    You can see what I thought for each constituency in my SMAPS document in column S

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sAVzqjn9iA10c1wVlAwCiR0ycue0P83ixV-Zsak3ufs/edit?usp=sharing

    EDIT: If anyone feels like I'v made a large error with a constituency Yes vote then please let me know.
    Speaking of spreadsheets.. has anyone heard from AndyJS recently? Would be a shame if he left for good due to that silly evasion/avoidance thing.
    I think he's active over on UK Polling Report.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Continuing my Ashcroft trawl.

    Constituencies where the SNP has out preformed the Area Yes Vote (in percentage points):

    Cumbernauld (+0.9%)
    Dundee West (+1.7%)
    Gordon (+3.4%) **Alex Salmond Standing**
    Inverness (+2.9%) Toast

    What's your source for Yes vote by constituency, please?
    Painfully going through each council area and roughly mapping them to Constituencies. So there is no subtlety to the process at all. My Glasgow ones will be well out as I half arsed mapping the Holyrood constituencies (which were used for the breakdown of results) to the Westminster constituencies.

    You can see what I thought for each constituency in my SMAPS document in column S

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sAVzqjn9iA10c1wVlAwCiR0ycue0P83ixV-Zsak3ufs/edit?usp=sharing

    EDIT: If anyone feels like I'v made a large error with a constituency Yes vote then please let me know.
    Speaking of spreadsheets.. has anyone heard from AndyJS recently? Would be a shame if he left for good due to that silly evasion/avoidance thing.
    I think he's active over on UK Polling Report.
    Tell him to get his arse back over here! ;)
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @anotherDave
    We could always all go over there one evening, and drag him back?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    Saying he has "no plans's" to do a deal with the SNP won't hold up to the scrutiny of a TV debate...

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    VOODOO POLL

    3.4% Undecided
    7.6% Conservative
    39.6% Labour
    1.6% Liberal Democrat
    33.6% UKIP
    10.8% Green
    2.5% SNP
    0.2% Plaid Cymru
    0.0% DUP
    0.0% Sinn Fein
    0.2% SDLP
    0.2% Alliance
    0.2% Other

    Mirror online instapolling thingy http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed-miliband-no-plans-snp-5287834

    34% Ukip vs 39% Lab is astonishing (to me anyway)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Dumb Question Alert

    Where do I find a link to the full breakdown for each Ashcroft constituency poll?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Evening all and I do hope Dave sticks to his guns. The debates ruined the 2010 General Election because they became the only game in town. Politicians seeking election should be meeting voters not the same group of London chatterati they surround themselves with all yrrent seat.

    I agree totally, the idea that thie voting them off?
    Some may be using standard political hyperbole to describe the potential consequences, but that doesn't make the idea of the debates themselves ridiculous, particularly when we know Cameron does not share genuine antipathy for them (at least, not so much that could not be overcome if he thought he would benefit, as shown by his willingness to attend the debates last time). It doesn't automatically follow that the debates are a good thing of course, but the implied insistence from some corners that they have an undue influence that is wholly wrong, when other campaigning impacts are not, is far more pathetic as I see it than people engaging in hyperbole, which to bookend this paragraph, is entirely standard stuff.
    Style over substance, total bollocks
    That's a valid opinion to hold. Cameron clearly doesn't hold it given he was fine with them last time, but that too is a valid opinion for him to hold. But I do think we're on slippery ground if we decide some types of campaigning are bollocks (and thus shouldn't be allowed to happen) over others.

    I happen to think a piece of A5 paper with a couple of hundred words and some stock photos, which may or may not have any direct relevance to the constituency it is mailed in, and which is full of ridiculous spin either way, is not a very good basis for people to make up their minds, or contribute significantly to them making up their minds at any rate, but parties still stuff them through letter slots to make that happen all the same (yes I know they have other purposes, but it is at least partly designed to be about swaying the wavering).

    But I'm sure someone being swayed by five carefully spun and probably contextless bulletpoints of text and a photo of a grinning Nick Clegg (as a hypothetical example), or a billboard of a wrecking ball and the opposing party's name, is nothing but pure substance. Why, if it was not particularly substantive, we should not have them at all, right?
    Well thanks for confirming my opinion is valid, much appreciated kind sir.

    My point is the slickest wins, not the one with the best policies. They should follow Major's example and get out and meet the people, though given Brown's episode last time I can understand why Labour would prefer a PR stunt.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Imagine you are a Miliband adviser. Are you seriously thinking that all your Christmases have come early?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    GIN1138 said:
    He makes plenty of sensible points. Our system is not well fitting for this sort of thing. Regional variations mean who is getting invited is highly open to debate, and it almost feels like a Pluto planetory body/not a planet scenario, where you either end up having to 8 or 50 in the system(or whatever it was), or in this case 3-4 or 8-12 depending on how you decide to do it. He's also right things will go on even if they don't happen, we did after all manage it before.

    None of that means it will definitely have been worth if for the the Tories to be making this chaotic situation even more chaotic - time will tell, as I stated I think the biggest loss from it is the Tories' own opportunity given Cameron's supposed strengths and Ed M's weaknesses - but it is fair game to make the argument our system is not well suited for this sort of thing. Cameron is unfortunately the worse person possible to make that argument, but as Fraser states that is his own damn fault.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @Kle4

    "...if he didn't want to do them, or wanted them in a particular fashion, why didn't he [Cameron] just state it months or years ago so it seemed less like a last minute thought?"

    Perhaps because Cameron doesn't do strategy. That is to say he does not spend energy on anything other than what is immediate. Thinking ahead and planning for the future is not something he bothers with. Why should he? After all leaving it to the last minute has worked for him ever since he was at Uni.

    Unfortunately, whilst Cameron might be convinced that his own brilliance will always see him through, and it might well do so in terms of his own personal ambitions, it is a disastrous trait in a Prime Minister.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Ishmael_X said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Imagine you are a Miliband adviser. Are you seriously thinking that all your Christmases have come early?
    It is quite unbelievable. No matter what way a Tory could spin this, he cannot win. He has left himself with no wiggle room at all. If I was a Miliband adviser I would hope Cameron sticks to his guns and stays away. Never will an empty chair be so hilarious.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Alistair said:

    Dumb Question Alert

    Where do I find a link to the full breakdown for each Ashcroft constituency poll?

    Click a headline. Go to bottom of page for data tables.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Ishmael_X said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Imagine you are a Miliband adviser. Are you seriously thinking that all your Christmases have come early?
    It is quite unbelievable. No matter what way a Tory could spin this, he cannot win. He has left himself with no wiggle room at all. If I was a Miliband adviser I would hope Cameron sticks to his guns and stays away. Never will an empty chair be so hilarious.
    OK. Lets wait and see.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Perdix, Clegg challenged Farage to a head to head before the Euros, it was more one sided than anybody could have predicted. Several times a week Farage holds public meetings and hustings, he's been doing it for 20 years. The others are accustomed to stage managed PR events with planted questions.

    The reporting was that the political journos at the debate thought Mr Clegg had won, it wasn't until the polls came in they realised he hadn't.
    Yes - they said what they wanted to say and hoped that they could say, with no one able to put a contrary view because they all had the same hope. Groupdenial.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Ishmael_X said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Imagine you are a Miliband adviser. Are you seriously thinking that all your Christmases have come early?
    Depends how clever the empty chair is . . .
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    This whole debate malarky is just too absurd. A circus with clowns then a circus with one fewer clown. Then an Alan Bennett monologue.

    It is all a bit embarrassing. Should have been sorted out months ago rather than on the hoof with 9 weeks to go. The debates themselves are the most boring thing to debate about.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Continuing my Ashcroft trawl.

    Constituencies where the SNP has out preformed the Area Yes Vote (in percentage points):

    Cumbernauld (+0.9%)
    Dundee West (+1.7%)
    Gordon (+3.4%) **Alex Salmond Standing**
    Inverness (+2.9%) Toast

    What's your source for Yes vote by constituency, please?
    Painfully going through each council area and roughly mapping them to Constituencies. So there is no subtlety to the process at all. My Glasgow ones will be well out as I half arsed mapping the Holyrood constituencies (which were used for the breakdown of results) to the Westminster constituencies.

    You can see what I thought for each constituency in my SMAPS document in column S

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sAVzqjn9iA10c1wVlAwCiR0ycue0P83ixV-Zsak3ufs/edit?usp=sharing

    EDIT: If anyone feels like I'v made a large error with a constituency Yes vote then please let me know.
    Speaking of spreadsheets.. has anyone heard from AndyJS recently? Would be a shame if he left for good due to that silly evasion/avoidance thing.
    Concur - it was me that pulled him up on the odd evasion/avoidance thing but I never expected him to react like that!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I despair at the thought of Labour taking over. Meh!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041
    Smarmeron said:

    @anotherDave
    We could always all go over there one evening, and drag him back?

    Hear, hear!
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Continuing my Ashcroft trawl.

    Constituencies where the SNP has out preformed the Area Yes Vote (in percentage points):

    Cumbernauld (+0.9%)
    Dundee West (+1.7%)
    Gordon (+3.4%) **Alex Salmond Standing**
    Inverness (+2.9%) Toast

    What's your source for Yes vote by constituency, please?
    Painfully going through each council area and roughly mapping them to Constituencies. So there is no subtlety to the process at all. My Glasgow ones will be well out as I half arsed mapping the Holyrood constituencies (which were used for the breakdown of results) to the Westminster constituencies.

    You can see what I thought for each constituency in my SMAPS document in column S

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sAVzqjn9iA10c1wVlAwCiR0ycue0P83ixV-Zsak3ufs/edit?usp=sharing

    EDIT: If anyone feels like I'v made a large error with a constituency Yes vote then please let me know.
    Cheers for that, interesting.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Alistair said:

    Continuing my Ashcroft trawl.

    Constituencies where the SNP has out preformed the Area Yes Vote (in percentage points):

    Cumbernauld (+0.9%)
    Dundee West (+1.7%)
    Gordon (+3.4%) **Alex Salmond Standing**
    Inverness (+2.9%) Toast

    Ooops, and I missed of Edinburgh South West (+2%)
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Perdix, Clegg challenged Farage to a head to head before the Euros, it was more one sided than anybody could have predicted. Several times a week Farage holds public meetings and hustings, he's been doing it for 20 years. The others are accustomed to stage managed PR events with planted questions.

    The reporting was that the political journos at the debate thought Mr Clegg had won, it wasn't until the polls came in they realised he hadn't.

    Yes I remember it well, the Libs cheerful and backslapping, the look on their faces when the results were read out was hilarious. It was a moment that summed up the Westminster/media bubble for me, utterly out of touch with the general public.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    weejonnie said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Imagine you are a Miliband adviser. Are you seriously thinking that all your Christmases have come early?
    Depends how clever the empty chair is . . .
    It worked for Eastwood and Romney, didn't it?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/9510812/US-election-2012-Clint-Eastwood-lectures-empty-chair-at-Republican-convention.html
  • glwglw Posts: 9,955

    This whole debate malarky is just too absurd. A circus with clowns then a circus with one fewer clown. Then an Alan Bennett monologue.

    It is all a bit embarrassing. Should have been sorted out months ago rather than on the hoof with 9 weeks to go. The debates themselves are the most boring thing to debate about.

    I thought that the Tories had done well to get the Greens into the debate, and they should have taken what was on offer at that point, but they have now blown that advantage.

    Cameron's one debate stance makes little sense to me, I sure as hell don't see how that makes him look good. Too clever by half? More like plain stupid.

    About the best the Tories can hope for now is that the debates don't move opinion much.
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    edited March 2015



    Just between the two of us can I say that I despise Osborne even more than I do Cameron. I really would not piss in that man's ear of his brain was on fire.

    Personally I agree with Alistair Campbell. Unlike Cameron I am willing to offer Gideon some grudging respect as a political player. I think he has been a chancellor who has aimed at tactical advantage rather than national interest and detest a lot of his views and what he has done, but he seems to be the only senior politician in the big two parties at the moment who is hungry to win and showing the ruthlessness needed to do so, I think this may prove telling come May.

    And I say this while holding my nose, but I would far rather have Gideon in no.11 than Balls or any of the other Labour front bench.

    I can't honestly see it would be any worse having Ed in no 10. than Camneron (other than it would consequently conflict with the above paragraph)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    edited March 2015

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Evening all and I do hope Dave sticks to his guns. The debates ruined the 2010 General Election because they became the only game in town. Politicians seeking election should be meeting voters not the same group of London chatterati they surround themselves with all yrrent seat.

    I agree totally, the idea that thie voting them off?
    Some may be using
    Style over substance, total bollocks
    Th
    Well thanks for confirming my opinion is valid, much appreciated kind sir.

    It's just an expression, no need to be tetchy. Since you seem engaged by my use of it, I will clarify that I sometime use it to make clear I am not being dismissive of someone's point of view - rather than for instance writing off an opposing side' s opinion as being nothing but bollocks as though I have not even considered it, which may or may not be the case, or indeed be reasonable, depending on the circumstances - so they are clear I have given at least fleeting attention to the point they were making.

    Lack of brevity, pomposity and self righteousness are I suspect more common failings of mine in writing, but if you felt I was being condescending I apologize, it was not my intention. Perhaps I should have just made the written equivalent of grunting insults that make up online political discourse in some of the darker corners of the internet, which at least are less open to misinterpretation.

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Evening all and I do hope Dave sticks to his guns. The debates ruined the 2010 General Election because they became the only game in town. Politicians seeking election should be meeting voters not the same group of London chatterati they surround themselves with all yrrent seat.

    I agree totally, the idea that thie voting them off?
    Some engaging in hyperbole, which to bookend this paragraph, is entirely standard stuff.
    Style over substance, total bollocks
    That's a valid opinion to hold. Cameron clearly doesn't hold it given he was fine with them last
    They should follow Major's example and get out and meet the people,
    Am I allowed to say I agree with that? Though I don't see why you cannot do both and maximise how you reach people - the pure, face to face version, and that apparently eeevil over television way.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    ‘I can confirm that Al Murray’s party has had the name Free United Kingdom Party approved by the Electoral Commission. We have informed the party of our decision.’

    Maybe if he isn't too busy touring he could take Cameron's place?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Alistair said:

    Average Constituency Scores 3.3 points fewer SNP than the Yes vote with a Standard Devaition of 5.1 percentage points.

    Removing Glasgow NE and Grdon which are the two outliers at either end and that becomes 3 points fewer and a StdDev of 4.1

    The 3 points fewer basically covers the Greens in my view.

    Based on this reasoning the price of Edinburgh North & Leith should be exactly the same as Edinburgh East.

    They are not, @1.5 in Edinburgh East and @2.5 in North & Leith
  • chestnut said:

    As I understand it in numerous cases those rooms were never empty and saying they were was just a rather malevolent piece of propaganda from Tory stooges but hey if you think banging on about it serves the Tory purposes carry on.

    Under-occupancy is rife in UK housing. It is much more prevalent than overcrowding.

    Well that's if you accept the government's definition of under occupancy perhaps.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    weejonnie said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Imagine you are a Miliband adviser. Are you seriously thinking that all your Christmases have come early?
    Depends how clever the empty chair is . . .
    1. Have you seen Clint Eastwood vs empty chair? Who do you think won?

    2. Whom do you rate higher, Eastwood or Miliband?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    The chances of broadcasters doing anything like this during the campaign, on what is supposed to be a serious debate, is nil. Not close to nil, but nil.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    Comp,something for you ;-)


    http://order-order.com/2015/03/06/brilliant-labour-attack-video-on-debate-dodging-dave/
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Perdix, Clegg challenged Farage to a head to head before the Euros, it was more one sided than anybody could have predicted. Several times a week Farage holds public meetings and hustings, he's been doing it for 20 years. The others are accustomed to stage managed PR events with planted questions.

    The reporting was that the political journos at the debate thought Mr Clegg had won, it wasn't until the polls came in they realised he hadn't.

    Yes I remember it well, the Libs cheerful and backslapping, the look on their faces when the results were read out was hilarious. It was a moment that summed up the Westminster/media bubble for me, utterly out of touch with the general public.

    That poll on who won could have been done in advance with the same result.
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    edited March 2015



    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.

    A large steaming bowl of thick yellow custard (with apologies to Damian Thomson for cribbing his meme).

    Or if it has to be a person Harry Enfield in character with his Tim Nice but Dim character.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    glw said:

    This whole debate malarky is just too absurd. A circus with clowns then a circus with one fewer clown. Then an Alan Bennett monologue.

    It is all a bit embarrassing. Should have been sorted out months ago rather than on the hoof with 9 weeks to go. The debates themselves are the most boring thing to debate about.

    Cameron's one debate stance makes little sense to me, I sure as hell don't see how that makes him look good. Too clever by half? .
    Unless his aim was to get the debates called off, a gambit of a different gambit, I've been struggling with that one too. Getting the Greens and PC in to hopefully undermine Labour more than him seemed like Cameron had done very well for himself, and limiting that to one event rather than 2, and then a chance to finish Ed M off one on one, seemed counter productive.

    Perhaps they felt the 2 seven person debates would give Ed a chance to recover, whereas in just one with no previous experience of what Labour might face from the other leftist parties Ed would probably take at least a moderate hit initially. It cannot be repeated enough that the principled stance of many on here who dislike the debates cannot be applied to Cameron's reasoning, given his history on them, so the answer can only be in terms of political calculation.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,133
    New Statesman on Freeview 8 (London Live) right now :)
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    Comp,something for you ;-)


    http://order-order.com/2015/03/06/brilliant-labour-attack-video-on-debate-dodging-dave/
    Good stuff!
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Back in reality, it's a normal Friday night, and away from the bubble, no one is remotely interested in the debates, just enjoying themselves.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    David Cameron calls for a 1:1 Televised debate between himself and the Labour leader at the next general election.

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?189763-1/conservative-party-candidates

    (4min 10sec in)

  • The broadcasters clearly need Cameron to take part in these debates if they are to achieve any kind of reasonable audience size. Who, other than a few obsessives, are going to bother watching these things if Cameron doesn't show up?

    The 30%+ who are leaning Conservative won't bother to look in and there's not much of interest for those of us who make up the other 65%+ either if we're not going to get to see anyone land a blow on the PM.

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800


    I agree totally, the idea that thie voting them off?<

    Style over substance, total bollocks
    Th

    Well thanks for confirming my opinion is valid, much appreciated kind sir.


    It's just an expression, no need to be tetchy. Since you seem engaged by my use of it, I will clarify that I sometime use it to make clear I am not being dismissive of someone's point of view - rather than for instance writing off an opposing side' s opinion as being nothing but bollocks as though I have not even considered it, which may or may not be the case, or indeed be reasonable, depending on the circumstances - so they are clear I have given at least fleeting attention to the point they were making.

    Lack of brevity, pomposity and self righteousness are I suspect more common failings of mine in writing, but if you felt I was being condescending I apologize, it was not my intention. Perhaps I should have just made the written equivalent of grunting insults that make up online political discourse in some of the darker corners of the internet, which at least are less open to misinterpretation.

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Evening all and I do hope Dave sticks to his guns. The debates ruined the 2010 General Election because they became the only game in town. Politicians seeking election should be meeting voters not the same group of London chatterati they surround themselves with all yrrent seat.

    I agree totally, the idea that thie voting them off?
    Some engaging in hyperbole, which to bookend this paragraph, is entirely standard stuff.
    Style over substance, total bollocks
    That's a valid opinion to hold. Cameron clearly doesn't hold it given he was fine with them last
    They should follow Major's example and get out and meet the people,
    Am I allowed to say I agree with that? Though I don't see why you cannot do both and maximise how you reach people - the pure, face to face version, and that apparently eeevil over television way.


    Fair enough, no need to apologise, things don't always come over as intended on the Internet as we all know to our cost!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    RobD said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    The chances of broadcasters doing anything like this during the campaign, on what is supposed to be a serious debate, is nil. Not close to nil, but nil.
    I know it would be nil, maybe a cardboard cut out just stood there looking out to the audience as a reminder for everyone.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Back in reality, it's a normal Friday night, and away from the bubble, no one is remotely interested in the debates, just enjoying themselves.

    Yer like me tomorrow ;-) Got my ticket ,Bradford city v Reading FA cup QT final,that's if we win though ;-)

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,132



    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.

    A large steaming bowl of thick yellow custard (with apologies to Damian Thomson for cribbing his meme).

    Or if it has to be a person Harry Enfield in character with his Tim Nice but Dim character.
    A bowl of Eton mess?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,955
    kle4 said:

    Perhaps they felt the 2 seven person debates would give Ed a chance to recover, whereas in just one with no previous experience of what Labour might face from the other leftist parties Ed would probably take at least a moderate hit initially. It cannot be repeated enough that the principled stance of many on here who dislike the debates cannot be applied to Cameron's reasoning, given his history on them, so the answer can only be in terms of political calculation.

    I think they got greedy, and now Cameron looks stupid.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    SeanT said:

    Cameron's problem is that if the debates do take place, at least once, without him, they will be MORE of an occasion BECAUSE he is absent. People will tune in for the weirdness and the "hilarity"; it will provoke endless hashtags and derision. Disaster.

    Does anyone here remember the time Roy Hattersley went on HIGNFY? Er, no. Do they remember the time he DIDN'T go on and he was empty chaired and replaced by lard? YES.

    This could be the pivotal moment in the election campaign, the moment when the prime minister of the UK was too scared to have a 7 way debate, just because, well, he is too scared?

    It's calamitous. He needs to find a way, quickly, of digging himself free. Already it is unseemly.

    He has offered to take part in a 7 way debate, though. He needs to keep renewing that offer.

    And remember: ed is crap, sturgeon and farage aren't, and miliband's scalp would be a great prize to either of them.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    Comp,something for you ;-)


    http://order-order.com/2015/03/06/brilliant-labour-attack-video-on-debate-dodging-dave/
    Good stuff!
    Quite funny!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    SeanT said:

    Cameron's problem is that if the debates do take place, at least once, without him, they will be MORE of an occasion BECAUSE he is absent. People will tune in for the weirdness and the "hilarity"; it will provoke endless hashtags and derision. Disaster.

    Does anyone here remember the time Roy Hattersley went on HIGNFY? Er, no. Do they remember the time he DIDN'T go on and he was empty chaired and replaced by lard? YES.

    This could be the pivotal moment in the election campaign, the moment when the prime minister of the UK was too scared to have a 7 way debate, just because, well, he is too scared?

    It's calamitous. He needs to find a way, quickly, of digging himself free. Already it is unseemly.

    I am praying he digs in and stays away. DON'T LET THEM PUSH YOU AROUND DAVE!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Back in reality, it's a normal Friday night, and away from the bubble, no one is remotely interested in the debates, just enjoying themselves.

    Yer like me tomorrow ;-) Got my ticket ,Bradford city v Reading FA cup QT final,that's if we win though ;-)

    Reading 2-1.....sorry bud.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587

    Back in reality, it's a normal Friday night, and away from the bubble, no one is remotely interested in the debates, just enjoying themselves.

    And there it is! Why cannot this point just be added as a headed post at the top of every thread? While some few get overexcited about how this or that gaff or a photo in a morrisons (or whatever) will swing an entire election, it seems pretty well accepted by most people that they know we are weirdos who are obsessively interested in politics, and that normal people will not be paying attention to such things - the hope instead being that an event might manage to catch on and begin to impact narratives and the general political mood in a sort of osmotic way - so it is not as though so grand unconsidered point has just been made clear.

    Take it to its logical conclusion and it can be applied to virtually everything written about on a daily basis on any political website, and then what could I rant about?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @compouter2
    I think an empty suit would be better, but other options are available.
    :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,133
    TNS poll.... must have TNS poll...
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    kle4 said:

    Back in reality, it's a normal Friday night, and away from the bubble, no one is remotely interested in the debates, just enjoying themselves.

    And there it is! Why cannot this point just be added as a headed post at the top of every thread? While some few get overexcited about how this or that gaff or a photo in a morrisons (or whatever) will swing an entire election, it seems pretty well accepted by most people that they know we are weirdos who are obsessively interested in politics, and that normal people will not be paying attention to such things - the hope instead being that an event might manage to catch on and begin to impact narratives and the general political mood in a sort of osmotic way - so it is not as though so grand unconsidered point has just been made clear.

    Take it to its logical conclusion and it can be applied to virtually everything written about on a daily basis on any political website, and then what could I rant about?
    I don't think it will swing the election. However, I don't think it will help the Tory cause, cannot understand that with so many paid advisers in Tory HQ they manage to clusterfcuk the situation and the complete manic hilariousness of the whole thing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587

    The broadcasters clearly need Cameron to take part in these debates if they are to achieve any kind of reasonable audience size. Who, other than a few obsessives, are going to bother watching these things if Cameron doesn't show up?

    Well you'd get a few curious souls no doubt, those people who become interested in politics if not perhaps not in a partisan way, at GE time. And maybe a few fantasists who could pretend that for a moment, their dream of UK politics with nothing but left wing parties was a reality. Granted, even with going after the Labour vote UKIP kind of mess that up, but it'd be easier to pretend with Cameron not there.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    RobD said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    The chances of broadcasters doing anything like this during the campaign, on what is supposed to be a serious debate, is nil. Not close to nil, but nil.
    I know it would be nil, maybe a cardboard cut out just stood there looking out to the audience as a reminder for everyone.
    Still nil. Empty-chairing is one thing (I doubt there would even be an empty podium on display ), but doing something which looks like it is designed to embarrass whoever isn't present, is another.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041
    edited March 2015

    TNS poll.... must have TNS poll...

    Blue dawn........ ;)

    Edit: you forgot the BMRB :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,133
    edited March 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    @compouter2
    I think an empty suit would be better, but other options are available.
    :)

    https://twitter.com/torytoff_park/status/554284072974159872
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Roger said:

    Alanbrooke

    "or is what you're saying Labour's priorities for a broken nation is a bloke in chicken suit ?"

    LOL!! It's not just Labour but you've just about hit the nail on the head

    I'm expecting an emotional Andy Burnham pleading 24 hours to save Foghorn Leghorn,
    Foghorn Leghorn was one of the finest characters ever to emerge from Warner Bros:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8TQZBHszI4

    Kind of reminds me of some of the posters on here.
    Re your earlier point isn't it odd that as we move more towards US style prersidential debates we have some of the least presidential material on the podium in living memory ?
    I think it's harder now. With the media and scrutiny the way things are. It's harder to control perception than in the past
    It's no harder than it was 5 years ago. And odd that if your claiming debates make life so much harder for policitians that so many leaders seem to want them.
    I don't mean debates so much as the news cycle, the constant tv reports etc. The greater the exposure the less sense there is of mystique or grandeur etc.
    They pander to it. It;s hard to feel sorry for people who create their own problems.
    Such as ever with politicians and the media. I suppose what I think is that if politicians seem smaller now, it's mainly because we're standing closer to them.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041
    kle4 said:

    Back in reality, it's a normal Friday night, and away from the bubble, no one is remotely interested in the debates, just enjoying themselves.

    And there it is! Why cannot this point just be added as a headed post at the top of every thread? While some few get overexcited about how this or that gaff or a photo in a morrisons (or whatever) will swing an entire election, it seems pretty well accepted by most people that they know we are weirdos who are obsessively interested in politics, and that normal people will not be paying attention to such things - the hope instead being that an event might manage to catch on and begin to impact narratives and the general political mood in a sort of osmotic way - so it is not as though so grand unconsidered point has just been made clear.

    Take it to its logical conclusion and it can be applied to virtually everything written about on a daily basis on any political website, and then what could I rant about?
    You mean that the folks down the pub aren't totally transfixed by twitter at 10:30 when the daily YouGov is out.... shocking.... ;)
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Back in reality, it's a normal Friday night, and away from the bubble, no one is remotely interested in the debates, just enjoying themselves.

    Yer like me tomorrow ;-) Got my ticket ,Bradford city v Reading FA cup QT final,that's if we win though ;-)

    Reading 2-1.....sorry bud.
    It's ok,ever since I said Martinez best upcoming manager in prem with Everton,how's that been working out for you ;-)

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2015
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    The chances of broadcasters doing anything like this during the campaign, on what is supposed to be a serious debate, is nil. Not close to nil, but nil.
    I know it would be nil, maybe a cardboard cut out just stood there looking out to the audience as a reminder for everyone.
    Still nil. Empty-chairing is one thing (I doubt there would even be an empty podium on display ), but doing something which looks like it is designed to embarrass whoever isn't present, is another.
    I know, I know, just think the opportunity is there to brighten up the programme. I doubt they would even empty chair/empty podium him to tell truth. But I do enjoy the situation as it currently stands. I actually think a humungous Cameron U-Turn is on the way, though hope not. STAND DAVE...STAND!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    edited March 2015
    SeanT said:


    It's calamitous. He needs to find a way, quickly, of digging himself free. Already it is unseemly.

    But you see, some people don't like the debates, therefore if Cameron manages to not be on any of them, clearly it follows that everyone else in the country will have to agree that he looks magnificent for not doing so. Stands to reason.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @compouter2
    A cast iron "U" turn?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,041

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    The chances of broadcasters doing anything like this during the campaign, on what is supposed to be a serious debate, is nil. Not close to nil, but nil.
    I know it would be nil, maybe a cardboard cut out just stood there looking out to the audience as a reminder for everyone.
    Still nil. Empty-chairing is one thing (I doubt there would even be an empty podium on display ), but doing something which looks like it is designed to embarrass whoever isn't present, is another.
    I know, I know, just think the opportunity is there to brighten up the programme. I doubt they would even empty chair/empty podium him to tell truth. But I do enjoy the situation as it currently stands. I actually think a humungous Cameron U-Turn is on the way, though hope not. STAND DAVE...STAND!
    Deary me, it is "compromise" not "U-turn".. ;) heh
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Sky sticking the boot on cowardly Cameron

    I forecast he ends up in all the debates with some face saving change of date to bring 2 way one earlier than 30th April
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    kle4 said:

    The broadcasters clearly need Cameron to take part in these debates if they are to achieve any kind of reasonable audience size. Who, other than a few obsessives, are going to bother watching these things if Cameron doesn't show up?

    Well you'd get a few curious souls no doubt, those people who become interested in politics if not perhaps not in a partisan way, at GE time. And maybe a few fantasists who could pretend that for a moment, their dream of UK politics with nothing but left wing parties was a reality. Granted, even with going after the Labour vote UKIP kind of mess that up, but it'd be easier to pretend with Cameron not there.
    I actually think more people will watch it if Cameron is not there.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Trending well.......can't understand why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccM4wVgZN9o

    I'm no Cameron lover but this is pathetic, is that all you have got?


    What about some policies?

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers

    Here's the red teams policies.

    Ed Miliband says he has 'no plans' for deal with SNP. Like the Tories had 'no plans' for a VAT rise?

    Cluck,cluck ;-)
    It is quite a clusterfcuk for Cameron to end up in this position. He, I assume from the brains trust at Tory HQ, demands the TV debates on his terms, thinking, unbelieveably, that all the other parties and the broadcasters will bow to his every word. The broadcaster tell him to do one and they will empty seat him if he doesn't turn up. This puts omni-shambles into the shade.....and is quite funny actually.
    Compy me old pal,I gave up on Cameron some years back,but Ed has PM frightens and excites me.

    Frightens because he could be worse than brown and really clusterfcuk this country up ;-) and excites because he could be giving me laughs every week on PB - LOL ,hope your still around to see it ;-)

    I will be here, laughing along with you. Didn't HIGNFY once put a tub of lard up because Roy Hattersley no showed. What do you think would be appropriate for Cameron.
    The chances of broadcasters doing anything like this during the campaign, on what is supposed to be a serious debate, is nil. Not close to nil, but nil.
    I know it would be nil, maybe a cardboard cut out just stood there looking out to the audience as a reminder for everyone.
    Still nil. Empty-chairing is one thing (I doubt there would even be an empty podium on display ), but doing something which looks like it is designed to embarrass whoever isn't present, is another.
    I know, I know, just think the opportunity is there to brighten up the programme. I doubt they would even empty chair/empty podium him to tell truth. But I do enjoy the situation as it currently stands. I actually think a humungous Cameron U-Turn is on the way, though hope not. STAND DAVE...STAND!
    Deary me, it is "compromise" not "U-turn".. ;) heh
    Or, everyone else came around to his point of view.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    Is my memory faulty or did Farage or UKIP live blog (or whatever everyone did in 2010 - did we have Twitter in 2010, I don't recall) the debates last time as a passive aggressive response to being left out?

    Cameron could do that. Hell, he could live-stream it, making quips and sardonic barbs at the others as they go at it.

    "Oh come on Ed, you tried that line on me in the Commons, it didn't work then, it won't work on Nicola now"
    "Nick may say he hated every moment of being in government with me, but I still think he's a really cool dude"
    "What the hell is Plaid Cymru and how did they get a seat?"
    "Nigel looks desperate for a fag right now, amiright?"

    And so on
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    You people are clearly not piling into the SNP as Betfair's prices have not shifted one inch.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Back in reality, it's a normal Friday night, and away from the bubble, no one is remotely interested in the debates, just enjoying themselves.

    Yer like me tomorrow ;-) Got my ticket ,Bradford city v Reading FA cup QT final,that's if we win though ;-)

    Reading 2-1.....sorry bud.
    It's ok,ever since I said Martinez best upcoming manager in prem with Everton,how's that been working out for you ;-)

    Don't worry I have not forgotten your bloody jinx.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723

    I forecast he ends up in all the debates with some face saving change of date to bring 2 way one earlier than 30th April

    Key statement on BBC1 10pm News report:

    Broadcasters are willing to change the date of the head to head.

    Wonder if we'll get a compromise something like:

    25 March: 7 person
    9 April : 7 person
    23 April: Head to head

    Maybe, just maybe, that is what Cameron is playing for - ie he knows he'll have to take part but is using leverage to get the dates moved.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MikeL said:

    I forecast he ends up in all the debates with some face saving change of date to bring 2 way one earlier than 30th April

    Key statement on BBC1 10pm News report:

    Broadcasters are willing to change the date of the head to head.

    Wonder if we'll get a compromise something like:

    25 March: 7 person
    9 April : 7 person
    23 April: Head to head

    Maybe, just maybe, that is what Cameron is playing for - ie he knows he'll have to take part but is using leverage to get the dates moved.
    They were willing to move the head to head before he ruled out attending it though
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: Tomorrow's Daily Telegraph front page: 'TV debates: PM refuses to blink' http://t.co/4ueaQC8uql
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    MikeL said:

    I forecast he ends up in all the debates with some face saving change of date to bring 2 way one earlier than 30th April

    Key statement on BBC1 10pm News report:

    Broadcasters are willing to change the date of the head to head.

    Wonder if we'll get a compromise something like:

    25 March: 7 person
    9 April : 7 person
    23 April: Head to head

    Maybe, just maybe, that is what Cameron is playing for - ie he knows he'll have to take part but is using leverage to get the dates moved.
    Still be a huge stepdown/compromise/u-turn/major victory for Cameron*/masterclass in political strategy by Cameron*.....if he does now attend.

    *PB Hodge speak
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,386
    MikeL said:

    I forecast he ends up in all the debates with some face saving change of date to bring 2 way one earlier than 30th April

    Key statement on BBC1 10pm News report:

    Broadcasters are willing to change the date of the head to head.

    Wonder if we'll get a compromise something like:

    25 March: 7 person
    9 April : 7 person
    23 April: Head to head

    Maybe, just maybe, that is what Cameron is playing for - ie he knows he'll have to take part but is using leverage to get the dates moved.
    I'm really not sure Cameron is "playing for anything"? I'm not sure he actually has a plan or any idea where this is going...

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kle4 said:

    Is my memory faulty or did Farage or UKIP live blog (or whatever everyone did in 2010 - did we have Twitter in 2010, I don't recall) the debates last time as a passive aggressive response to being left out?

    Cameron could do that. Hell, he could live-stream it, making quips and sardonic barbs at the others as they go at it.

    "Oh come on Ed, you tried that line on me in the Commons, it didn't work then, it won't work on Nicola now"
    "Nick may say he hated every moment of being in government with me, but I still think he's a really cool dude"
    "What the hell is Plaid Cymru and how did they get a seat?"
    "Nigel looks desperate for a fag right now, amiright?"

    And so on

    Farage said that he would do something like that if he was excluded from the debates.. but he got in.. so Dave had to duck out instead

    This whole shebang is because Dave doesn't want to debate Farage.. if it had been Clegg, Cameron and Miliband he would've signed up no problem
  • It seems fairly obvious no one wins in this dispute as any attempt to empty chair the Prime Minister will be all about that and no one will cut through on any policies. It seems David Cameron is bringing out his inner Thatcher. 'You turn if you want, to the Prime Minister is not for turning' !!!
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Scott_P
    You have to admire their spirit.
    "Torygraph" takes sides with the PM shocker.
    Do Telegraph readers watch TV news these days, or are they not allowed?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    It seems fairly obvious no one wins in this dispute as any attempt to empty chair the Prime Minister will be all about that and no one will cut through on any policies. It seems David Cameron is bringing out his inner Thatcher. 'You turn if you want, to the Prime Minister is not for turning' !!!

    Hopefully so.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    All this about the debates and we haven't even addressed STVs plan to only invite the UK leaders to their Scottish debate (i.e. Miliband not Murphy).
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    GIN1138 said:

    MikeL said:

    I forecast he ends up in all the debates with some face saving change of date to bring 2 way one earlier than 30th April

    Key statement on BBC1 10pm News report:

    Broadcasters are willing to change the date of the head to head.

    Wonder if we'll get a compromise something like:

    25 March: 7 person
    9 April : 7 person
    23 April: Head to head

    Maybe, just maybe, that is what Cameron is playing for - ie he knows he'll have to take part but is using leverage to get the dates moved.
    I'm really not sure Cameron is "playing for anything"? I'm not sure he actually has a plan or any idea where this is going...

    ARF!
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806



    Just between the two of us can I say that I despise Osborne even more than I do Cameron. I really would not piss in that man's ear of his brain was on fire.

    Personally I agree with Alistair Campbell. Unlike Cameron I am willing to offer Gideon some grudging respect as a political player. I think he has been a chancellor who has aimed at tactical advantage rather than national interest and detest a lot of his views and what he has done, but he seems to be the only senior politician in the big two parties at the moment who is hungry to win and showing the ruthlessness needed to do so, I think this may prove telling come May.

    And I say this while holding my nose, but I would far rather have Gideon in no.11 than Balls or any of the other Labour front bench.

    I can't honestly see it would be any worse having Ed in no 10. than Camneron (other than it would consequently conflict with the above paragraph)
    Kippers would love Ed to be in No 10 just to see the devastation caused. They are irreconcilable just like ISIS ;)

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Sky sticking the boot on cowardly Cameron

    I forecast he ends up in all the debates with some face saving change of date to bring 2 way one earlier than 30th April

    Vested interest in attack shock
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    Dair said:

    All this about the debates and we haven't even addressed STVs plan to only invite the UK leaders to their Scottish debate (i.e. Miliband not Murphy).

    I like their style.
This discussion has been closed.