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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited February 2015

    Breaking news from the Beeb: "LATEST: IS militant known as 'Jihadi John', believed to have beheaded hostages, is Mohammed Emwazi from London, BBC learns"

    i.e. someone has pointed them to the Washington Post article

    It appears though it must have been given the nod by the authorities as being the correct identity. The text in the Posts article doesn't contain that much more proof than when Daily Mail has ran several incorrect articles in the past pointing fingers at one individual as being Jihadi John...it is very much well along the lines of we spoke to these associates and they say it definitely looks like him. I would presume they have more evidence than that, but aren't publishing it.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:


    No he's interested in tit for tat, the usual process of negotiating.

    Don't be silly ... those are 'demands' to preclude serious negotiations. He readily admits it by saying Sturgeon would not be kept waiting.
    Its all tit and no tat.
    He is saying the LDs are not interested in govt, with anybody.
    Lord have mercy, I'm only a Party member. Trust some Tory halfwit like Flightpath to read far more into something than is there and make a cheap jibe.

    Sean F, as usual, gets to the point.

    I don't see an appetite for Coalition or even S&C within the Party - I may be wrong. Someone talked earlier about a "period of quiet reflection" which can be translated as "assessing the losses" or "counting the dead" if you prefer. That sounds reasonable.

    Whether in the heat of a post-election deadlock that line will hold remains to be seen. For me, the critical question is whether LAB + SNP is greater than CON (+perhaps DUP).



    Then what is the point of the Lib Dems as a political party if they have no interest in being in government? Might as well disband.
    That’s the trouble with the Tories. Always looking at the short-term and neglecting to do any planning.
    Time spent on reconnaissance is never wasted!
    The Lib Dems / Liberals had decades to plan prior to 2010. What happened?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,115
    Pulpstar said:

    Scottish "lastest eight" subsample watch:

    SNP 43.8% (+0.5)
    Labour 23.9% (-2.7)
    Conservatives 17.4% (+0.8)
    Liberal Democrats 6.9% (+1.3)
    UKIP 4.5% (+1.1)
    Greens 3.3% (-0.2)

    LibDem swingback! Danny & Jo hold on?
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    No comment:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/26/ukips-lgbt-chair-quits-i-couldnt-defend-the-party-any-more/

    "“I stepped down from my position as Founder-Chairman of LGBT* in UKIP, and resigned my membership of UKIP, due to disillusionment of policy direction and dissatisfaction at the failure of the leadership to set a gay-friendly tone."
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    King Cole, I misread that as 'time spent on Renaissance is never wasted!'.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,115
    edited February 2015

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:


    No he's interested in tit for tat, the usual process of negotiating.

    Don't be silly ... those are 'demands' to preclude serious negotiations. He readily admits it by saying Sturgeon would not be kept waiting.
    Its all tit and no tat.
    He is saying the LDs are not interested in govt, with anybody.
    Lord have mercy, I'm only a Party member. Trust some Tory halfwit like Flightpath to read far more into something than is there and make a cheap jibe.

    Sean F, as usual, gets to the point.

    I don't see an appetite for Coalition or even S&C within the Party - I may be wrong. Someone talked earlier about a "period of quiet reflection" which can be translated as "assessing the losses" or "counting the dead" if you prefer. That sounds reasonable.

    Whether in the heat of a post-election deadlock that line will hold remains to be seen. For me, the critical question is whether LAB + SNP is greater than CON (+perhaps DUP).



    Then what is the point of the Lib Dems as a political party if they have no interest in being in government? Might as well disband.
    That’s the trouble with the Tories. Always looking at the short-term and neglecting to do any planning.
    Time spent on reconnaissance is never wasted!
    The Lib Dems / Liberals had decades to plan prior to 2010. What happened?
    A choice of Clegg or Huhne as Leader?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2015

    Indigo said:



    I know Mr Indigo, I know! Can someone please direct me to a thought through Labour policy. I need at least one logical reason to vote for them, other than a general feeling that their heart’s in the right place.

    I don't think the problem is the placement of their heart, its the placement of the head, which appears to currently be where the sun doesn't shine!
    Yup. Looks like I’m going to have to consider writing NOTA on the ballot paper.
    The same issue exists with fixed time contract to some extent. I often used to be asked to sign say 30 or 40 hr per week contracts with a client which would demand exclusivity, and I would always strike out those clauses, "you pay for me for 30 hrs, you get 30 hrs, what I do the rest of the time is my business" or words to that effect.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,115

    King Cole, I misread that as 'time spent on Renaissance is never wasted!'.

    LOL
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    If Huhne had won, I imagine the LDs would be doing better under Clegg now.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    MaxPB said:

    God bless our thrusting business leaders. The latest European patent statistics are out today and show that of the seven leading European economies, only Italy is below Britain, both in terms of patent filings per $USbillion of non-service Gross Domestic Product and per head of population.

    No wonder we lose so many top class scientists and engineers. No wonder we lag behind so many of our competitors in terms of exports. Our management class is much too concerned about the next dividend and bonus to invest in invention and innovation.

    Short-termism is strangling the UK economy, it has been for 50+ years.

    Could not agree more. It is the true British disease and we need to remember that before deifying the pronouncements of our business leaders.

    The real tell is that outside of a few success stories, most of the biggest employers and biggest companies in Britain tend to be foreign owned with foreign management. Land Rover is the classic example of a homegrown failure being taken over by a foreign company who make it successful by investing money and bringing proper long term thinking rather than ensuring there is enough money in the bank to pay the next dividend and director bonus pot.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037

    It appears been missed opportunities with Mohammed Emwazi...and the Cageprisoners went into bat for him when he previously got picked up for having been "on safari"...Indy gave them a nice write up to.

    Muhammad ibn Muazzam is in fact Mohammed Emwazi.


    MI5 agents illegally interrogated British Muslims who were detained while on safari holidays in Africa, it was claimed yesterday.

    The new allegations mirror cases first raised by The Independent last year in which the security service was accused of harassing and intimidating north London community workers who had returned from Somalia.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-muslims-on-safari-stopped-by-mi5-1959610.html

    If only those brutes at mi5 hadn't been so nasty , this monster would never have been created
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    antifrank said:

    No comment:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/26/ukips-lgbt-chair-quits-i-couldnt-defend-the-party-any-more/

    "“I stepped down from my position as Founder-Chairman of LGBT* in UKIP, and resigned my membership of UKIP, due to disillusionment of policy direction and dissatisfaction at the failure of the leadership to set a gay-friendly tone."

    At the same time, across the channel we get

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/02/marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote-and-its-jewish-one/
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,115
    edited February 2015
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:



    I know Mr Indigo, I know! Can someone please direct me to a thought through Labour policy. I need at least one logical reason to vote for them, other than a general feeling that their heart’s in the right place.

    I don't think the problem is the placement of their heart, its the placement of the head, which appears to currently be where the sun doesn't shine!
    Yup. Looks like I’m going to have to consider writing NOTA on the ballot paper.
    The same issue exists with fixed time contract to some extent. I often used to be asked to sign say 30 or 40 hr per week contracts with a client which would demand exclusivity, and I would always strike out those clauses, "you pay for me for 30 hrs, you get 30 hrs, what I do the rest of the time is my business" or words to that effect.
    You and I, who also had a few of those, had the negotiating strength to be able to do that. We were not (I assume) trying to get a couple of shifts in a fast-food outlet to make ends meet.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Indigo
    Do you feel it is important to be free to strike through part of a zero hours contract, and if the company refuses, to be free to walk away?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    antifrank said:

    No comment:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/26/ukips-lgbt-chair-quits-i-couldnt-defend-the-party-any-more/

    "“I stepped down from my position as Founder-Chairman of LGBT* in UKIP, and resigned my membership of UKIP, due to disillusionment of policy direction and dissatisfaction at the failure of the leadership to set a gay-friendly tone."

    Embarrassing that Ukip even has self obsessed special interest groups set up in the first place
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    Mr. Isam, I expect that line to be seriously taken by some. Just as some idiots believed the blatant bullshit of the looters in 2011 claiming they were upset by EMA being removed [I still recall Tom Parmenter[sp], a clown from Sky, doing a pathetic and despicable interview with three masked, self-confessed criminals].

    We saw similar with Hebdo, and the appalling apologist nonsense that a few spouted.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Smarmeron said:

    @Indigo
    Do you feel it is important to be free to strike through part of a zero hours contract, and if the company refuses, to be free to walk away?

    Wut ? Contracts are entered to by negotiation and choice. Sometime, as in the sort of case OKC mentions you don't have a very strong hand to play and have to take it or leave it, that isn't just the case for a zero hours contracts, any contract of employment can have terms you don't like but are powerless to change, you always have the option to walk. Even with a strong hand to play I have had clients who refuse to negotiate contract terms, I have to decide if I prefer their money, or my principles, which as you would expect comes down to what other work is on offer at the time, and how empty the bank is looking.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291

    Interesting day to release the name of 'Jihadi John'...just saying like.

    On the day society is to blame for JS's activities.

    The Conclusion is almost barking mad...unusual personality, behaviour....

    so unusual that managers and others looked the other way.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,066

    MaxPB said:

    God bless our thrusting business leaders. The latest European patent statistics are out today and show that of the seven leading European economies, only Italy is below Britain, both in terms of patent filings per $USbillion of non-service Gross Domestic Product and per head of population.

    No wonder we lose so many top class scientists and engineers. No wonder we lag behind so many of our competitors in terms of exports. Our management class is much too concerned about the next dividend and bonus to invest in invention and innovation.

    Short-termism is strangling the UK economy, it has been for 50+ years.

    Could not agree more. It is the true British disease and we need to remember that before deifying the pronouncements of our business leaders.

    Quite but I don't think anyone outside the Conservative party and the centre right press deifies their pronouncements any more. Perhaps Tony Blair.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Indigo
    Walk and be "sanctioned" is not really an option.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited February 2015
    Mohammed Emwazi was in contact with Cage Prisoners, whose director is Moazzam Begg...who of course had charges of providing terrorist training and funding terrorism in Syria DROPPED. Some might say it is a very small world.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    What a joke. Charity indeed.

    It can provide good entertainment though. Every time a chugger approaches me in Fleet Street I say that I do not intend to pay their chief executive's huge salary and pensions.

    If its Shelter I mention Cameron Robb by name.

    You should see the faces...
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dr_spyn
    "Democracy suspended in Rotherham" might have been a better headline?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,115
    Indigo said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Indigo
    Do you feel it is important to be free to strike through part of a zero hours contract, and if the company refuses, to be free to walk away?

    Wut ? Contracts are entered to by negotiation and choice. Sometime, as in the sort of case OKC mentions you don't have a very strong hand to play and have to take it or leave it, that isn't just the case for a zero hours contracts, any contract of employment can have terms you don't like but are powerless to change, you always have the option to walk. Even with a strong hand to play I have had clients who refuse to negotiate contract terms, I have to decide if I prefer their money, or my principles, which as you would expect comes down to what other work is on offer at the time, and how empty the bank is looking.
    Give that we are at significantly different points on the political spectrum, Mr I, it’s surprising, at least to me, how often we agree.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Smarmeron said:

    @dr_spyn
    "Democracy suspended in Rotherham" might have been a better headline?

    or Political Party unfit to hold office.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,023

    Pulpstar said:

    Scottish "lastest eight" subsample watch:

    SNP 43.8% (+0.5)
    Labour 23.9% (-2.7)
    Conservatives 17.4% (+0.8)
    Liberal Democrats 6.9% (+1.3)
    UKIP 4.5% (+1.1)
    Greens 3.3% (-0.2)

    LibDem swingback! Danny & Jo hold on?
    Danny has no chance.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dr_spyn
    Political party? or did you mean individual councillors?
    You know how you and your friends detest "smears"?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2015
    MaxPB said:

    The real tell is that outside of a few success stories, most of the biggest employers and biggest companies in Britain tend to be foreign owned with foreign management. Land Rover is the classic example of a homegrown failure being taken over by a foreign company who make it successful by investing money and bringing proper long term thinking rather than ensuring there is enough money in the bank to pay the next dividend and director bonus pot.

    This is nonsense. You are ignoring all the British companies which have taken over and made a success of foreign firms. Vodafone, GKN, National Grid, Compass, Diageo, Unilever (OK, that's one's Anglo-Dutch), BAe, to name the first few which occur to me. There are plenty more.

    We have a very successful, international, open economy. The traffic is two-way.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Indigo said:


    The problem with zero-hours contracts is not their existence per se, but when they are exclusive. They’ve been used for years in the NHS and the catering trade, but, and this is the point, suche workers have always been able to say “I can’t work that shift (or whatever)" without penalty.

    I agree.

    So what is all this wibbling we get from EdM about banning zero hours contracts ?
    You're mixing up Green policy (which I believe is to ban zero-hours contracts) and Labour policy (which is to ban exploitative zero-hours contracts). The definition of exploitative is IMO likely to be "Must be permanently available for work whether it's offered or not."
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    edited February 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    @dr_spyn
    Political party? or did you mean individual councillors?
    You know how you and your friends detest "smears"?

    Given that Labour have mismanaged Rotherham Borough Council since its inception, your claim it is a smear is derisory.



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    Blast form the past...

    Westminster University elected Tarik Mahri, 23, to the job of president of the union despite his links to the group Hizb ut-Tahrir which advocates the establishment of an Islamic state.

    His vice-president, Jamal Achchi, 26, also has links to the group, raising concerns that the university’s student union has been taken over by extremists.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8446562/Fears-that-university-has-been-infiltrated-by-Islamist-extremists.html


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    @Morris Dancer

    "We saw similar with Hebdo, and the appalling apologist nonsense that a few spouted. "

    This was very much the tenor of last nite's discussion following the showing of the highly entertaining film 'Cartoonists - Footsoldiers For Democracy' by UK Jewish Film last nite in Finchley.

    http://ukjewishfilm.org/event/cartoonists-foot-soldiers-democracy/

    But first let me report the good news that absolutely no cartoonists were killed, nor even the odd punter. This was no doubt due to the extremely prominent police presence outside the Center, and several very beefy looking security folk inside who were definitely not there to sell programmes.

    David Aaronvitch [The Times] spoke fluently and movingly against the kind of appeasement that somehow justifies acts of violence against legitimate and lawful expressions of less-than-uiversally-accepted views. Marf was her usual delightful self and it was good to see a number of her cartoons displayed during the show, many of which appeared first here on our favorite blog.

    There was a good turnout. Finchley folk it seems are not deterred by the prospect of a few noisy idiots and if the opposition was in the area, it didn't show, and a pleasant and peaceable nite was had by all.

    It's all a long way from Yorkshire, I know, but I'm sure you would have enjoyed it and been heartened by the spontaneous warmth of the audience to towards those who quietly risk their well-being daily in the cause of freedom of speech and thought.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    edited February 2015
    No conservative minister or backbencher available to discuss immigration figures with Andrew Neil on daily politics

    No ifs, no buts...

    Andrew Neil says they have Ukip and labour on and have empty chaired the conservatives... Although no empty chair I can see

    Looking at the two reps I'm sure most would guess wrongly as to who was who! Old grey labour, younger mixed race Ukip
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited February 2015
    or Political Party unfit to hold office.

    We should allow the people of South Yorkshire to turn that area into the ghastly cesspit they clearly have no will to stop it becoming

    The police commissioner election shows that.

    If people want to back left wing politics to the point of Detroit style evisceration, that is their affair.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ha! I'm in the 50 Cups of Grey category myself. Too much Bergamot appears to dry my eyes out though - a most peculiar side effect of too much tea!
    JackW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @JackW

    So then, the question we're all waiting for.

    Was your sudden disappearance from PB a couple of weeks ago related to the release of Fifty Shades Of Grey at the flicks? :O

    TSE opined that yourself and the Good Lady Jack went in expecting an historical biopic about Lady Jane Grey and were... Somewhat surprised... But I'm not buying it...

    Actually no.

    I thought "Fifty Shades Of Grey" was a biopic on the political career of John Major whereas Mrs JackW thought it was a documentary about Earl Grey tea.

    Imagine our surprise .... when it turned out to be a tame and dreary tale about events we both had forgotten about many decades ago !!

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    Mr. Isam, perhaps they've all emigrated?

    Mr. Punter, sounds like a good event.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2015

    Indigo said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Indigo
    Do you feel it is important to be free to strike through part of a zero hours contract, and if the company refuses, to be free to walk away?

    Wut ? Contracts are entered to by negotiation and choice. Sometime, as in the sort of case OKC mentions you don't have a very strong hand to play and have to take it or leave it, that isn't just the case for a zero hours contracts, any contract of employment can have terms you don't like but are powerless to change, you always have the option to walk. Even with a strong hand to play I have had clients who refuse to negotiate contract terms, I have to decide if I prefer their money, or my principles, which as you would expect comes down to what other work is on offer at the time, and how empty the bank is looking.
    Give that we are at significantly different points on the political spectrum, Mr I, it’s surprising, at least to me, how often we agree.
    Like many people I don't really feel the left/right division makes much sense as far as my politics is concerned. I don't like the "left" as it is currently constituted in the UK because it emphasises bureaucratic and centrist solutions to problems rather than because their heart is not in the right place, and because I despise what the trade union movement has become, in many ways no different from the corporatist idiocy growing on the right.

    The reason I am on the right, and in many ways a camp follower of Dan Hannan, is because I think his views (and to some extend those of Mr Carswell before his recent funny turn) are not so much Conservative as Communitarian. To quote a passage from wikipedia I quite identify with:
    "For the communitarian, leftist ideology fails to understand the importance of local tradition, identity, and core cultural values that define different communities by taking power away from such local communities and handing it to centralized bureaucratic structures which lack the sensitivity to understand such values and local issues which may thereby arise. Furthermore, the focus of the welfare state on individual rights and entitlements has also eroded many of the traditional family bonds that united people as well as responsibilities to the community that used to exist. Communitarians also critique libertarians and free market capitalists for supporting an economic system that pressures communities into atomizing, thus undermining traditional ties between members of a given community such as within a family"
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Indigo said:

    antifrank said:

    No comment:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/26/ukips-lgbt-chair-quits-i-couldnt-defend-the-party-any-more/

    "“I stepped down from my position as Founder-Chairman of LGBT* in UKIP, and resigned my membership of UKIP, due to disillusionment of policy direction and dissatisfaction at the failure of the leadership to set a gay-friendly tone."

    At the same time, across the channel we get

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/02/marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote-and-its-jewish-one/
    Calling Sean Fear, calling Sean Fear .. any chance of a story or two in light of this quote from the above article:

    "There are no queens in the National Front."
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited February 2015
    Andy Murray loses to 18 year old UK based Croat Borna Coric 6:1 6:3 in ATP 500 Dubai tournament.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    MaxPB said:

    The real tell is that outside of a few success stories, most of the biggest employers and biggest companies in Britain tend to be foreign owned with foreign management. Land Rover is the classic example of a homegrown failure being taken over by a foreign company who make it successful by investing money and bringing proper long term thinking rather than ensuring there is enough money in the bank to pay the next dividend and director bonus pot.

    This is nonsense. You are ignoring all the British companies which have taken over and made a success of foreign firms. Vodafone, GKN, National Grid, Compass, Diageo, Unilever (OK, that's one's Anglo-Dutch), BAe, to name the first few which occur to me. There are plenty more.

    We have a very successful, international, open economy. The traffic is two-way.
    Those are all part of the "few", add Rolls Royce, JCB, pharma and banking/finance and there you have pretty much all of Britain's homegrown success stories. I would probably add BT as well, the management's investment plan is quite aggressive and their FTTdp/G.Fast plan will take British internet out of the stone ages.

    As a whole my experience of British management is poor. Overly concerned with their bonuses and making sure the shareholders get their returns. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't much better with Japanese management which was about firefighting a lot of the time because of poor economic performance domestically, but they still had a long term plan of sorts. Even American companies are better.

    I think the major issue is that we don't, as a country, incentivise investment over shareholder returns. A higher dividend tax and R&D/investment tax breaks would work well and attract more export oriented companies to the country. I would also eliminate stamp duty on shares, which is a FTT in all but name.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    edited February 2015
    Smarmeron said:
    ''Even if the US shareholding were held in the UK, the firm would not be liable to tax on its gains under rules on shares sell-offs introduced by the then Chancellor Gordon Brown in 2002.''

    and

    ''But ministers are expected to stick with the “substantial shareholdings exemption”, which means firms to do not have to pay tax on profits from selling a 10 per cent stake or more in another company held for more than a year.
    The Treasury believes the 2002 change boosts Britain’s competitiveness and encourages multinationals to be based in the UK. It thinks it more likely that decisions on sell-offs are taken for the right reasons rather than the wrong ones, such as limiting a tax bill.''

    ''Vodafone sources argued that the tens of billions could be paid to UK investors, a significant injection of cash into the economy, ''
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Neil said:

    Indigo said:

    antifrank said:

    No comment:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/26/ukips-lgbt-chair-quits-i-couldnt-defend-the-party-any-more/

    "“I stepped down from my position as Founder-Chairman of LGBT* in UKIP, and resigned my membership of UKIP, due to disillusionment of policy direction and dissatisfaction at the failure of the leadership to set a gay-friendly tone."

    At the same time, across the channel we get

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/02/marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote-and-its-jewish-one/
    Calling Sean Fear, calling Sean Fear .. any chance of a story or two in light of this quote from the above article:

    "There are no queens in the National Front."
    Talking of old queens, just what is a Leader supposed to do?

    http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/elmbridge/11819802.Complaints_over_elderly_men_in_tennis_skirts_having_Sunday_sex_sessions_in_park/?ref=mac
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    Smarmeron said:
    You do realise they used a loophole created specifically by Gordon Brown so that British companies could invest overseas without creating a massive tax liability back home.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Flightpath
    The Blair government couldn't even spell socialism, and licked Mad Maggie's rear end.
    I may have pointed this out to you a few times.
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    Hengists_GiftHengists_Gift Posts: 628
    edited February 2015
    I must congratulate the Tory party (you can't really call them conservatives anymore) for once again doing their damnedest to ensure defeat when victory is entirely possible. That it involves a Cameron commitment (is he the most duplicitous , treacherous Tory leader of all time) and Theresa May (who has probably single handedly done more to damage the Tory Party brand than any other individual politician by coining the word 'nasty' in relation to the party) I suppose is to be expected. However for the Minister Of State to be called Brokenshire as well just adds insult to injury.

    Not only are their rumours that Cameron and Osborne are just about to renege on their commitments to NATO (so much for policies being necessary to fulfil international commitments)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2969639/Forces-facing-cuts-Tories-ditch-Nato-pledge-Cameron-Osborne-resist-pressure-budget-2-national-income.html

    But this morning we get news of absolutely shocking immigration figures which further shred the governments tattered immigration policy. Not only that but these are the biggest (worst?) immigration and net immigration figures ever recorded I believe. There can be little doubt that the government has lost control of immigration and their immigration policy is an abject failure and an object lesson in political negligence. As such how can we trust their projections for the public sector? How can we hope that additional house building will relieve the excessive demand for accommodation? How can we believe commitments about increasing numbers of jobs being available for young British people? If the government has no control over how many people are in the country how can it make accurate spending plans?

    The thing is if we believe the Government that Russia has designs on the Baltic nations (and perhaps other areas of Eastern Europe) and then the British Government gives a massive signal to Russia by reneging on NATO commitments for them to start to plan to take them back (much as the Tories did in the mid 1930's with Germany) will it be any surprise should the Russian tanks start rolling?

    .......to be continued
  • Options
    Hengists_GiftHengists_Gift Posts: 628
    edited February 2015
    ... continued from previous post

    And when they do guess what? Where will any refugee EU citizens head? Yep you got it westwards and given the UK's much touted economic success and employment 'miracle' those refugees will certainly put the UK amongst the top places to go to. They are already coming without the threat of Russia so they will come with it and possibly in larger numbers. If Russia kick off properly then the immigration issue will get a whole lot worse and there will be nothing that the Government can do about it. EU free movement of labour rules demand we accept them. What happens to the economic recovery under such circumstances is anyone's guess?

    All that wasted effort by the establishment and their media stooges spinning the NHS and the Economy to push immigration down the issues index and likely all for nought. And all on the day before the UKIP Spring Conference begins. You couldn't make it up!

    Still there will be plenty of money in the Foreign Aid budget (because you have to fulfil your international obligations) to be given to other EU countries should Russia kick off and they are deluged with refugees. Pity most of them will not be able to return the favour (because they've all reneged on their commitments if they ever made them).

    As I previously said congratulations to the Tories. They seem to have managed to open up a whole new battle front in this election campaign all on their very ownsome! Somehow I do not think it will be a 'Cold War' though
  • Options
    Part-ELBOW for the seven polls released so far this week (inc. last night's YG) =

    Lab lead 0.4%, which if carried through to Sunday, would be their smallest lead yet in ELBOW (started 10th August).

    Or if you prefer the simple average of these polls, Lab are 0.9% ahead.

    Take your pick :)
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Plato said:

    Ha! I'm in the 50 Cups of Grey category myself. Too much Bergamot appears to dry my eyes out though - a most peculiar side effect of too much tea!

    JackW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @JackW

    So then, the question we're all waiting for.

    Was your sudden disappearance from PB a couple of weeks ago related to the release of Fifty Shades Of Grey at the flicks? :O

    TSE opined that yourself and the Good Lady Jack went in expecting an historical biopic about Lady Jane Grey and were... Somewhat surprised... But I'm not buying it...

    Actually no.

    I thought "Fifty Shades Of Grey" was a biopic on the political career of John Major whereas Mrs JackW thought it was a documentary about Earl Grey tea.

    Imagine our surprise .... when it turned out to be a tame and dreary tale about events we both had forgotten about many decades ago !!

    The quality also varies greatly and not just based on price.

    Williamson teas are a favourite but M&S and Aldi also produce a decent brew.

  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    JohnO said:

    Neil said:

    Indigo said:

    antifrank said:

    No comment:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/26/ukips-lgbt-chair-quits-i-couldnt-defend-the-party-any-more/

    "“I stepped down from my position as Founder-Chairman of LGBT* in UKIP, and resigned my membership of UKIP, due to disillusionment of policy direction and dissatisfaction at the failure of the leadership to set a gay-friendly tone."

    At the same time, across the channel we get

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/02/marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote-and-its-jewish-one/
    Calling Sean Fear, calling Sean Fear .. any chance of a story or two in light of this quote from the above article:

    "There are no queens in the National Front."
    Talking of old queens, just what is a Leader supposed to do?

    http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/elmbridge/11819802.Complaints_over_elderly_men_in_tennis_skirts_having_Sunday_sex_sessions_in_park/?ref=mac
    Brilliant: "At this point he discovered a handwritten note with an offer he did not want to take up"

    Cant we enoble these old men so they can carry out their cross-dressing sexual exploits in the comfort of the House of Lords and ermine robes?
  • Options

    @Morris Dancer

    "We saw similar with Hebdo, and the appalling apologist nonsense that a few spouted. "

    This was very much the tenor of last nite's discussion following the showing of the highly entertaining film 'Cartoonists - Footsoldiers For Democracy' by UK Jewish Film last nite in Finchley.

    http://ukjewishfilm.org/event/cartoonists-foot-soldiers-democracy/

    But first let me report the good news that absolutely no cartoonists were killed, nor even the odd punter. This was no doubt due to the extremely prominent police presence outside the Center, and several very beefy looking security folk inside who were definitely not there to sell programmes.

    David Aaronvitch [The Times] spoke fluently and movingly against the kind of appeasement that somehow justifies acts of violence against legitimate and lawful expressions of less-than-uiversally-accepted views. Marf was her usual delightful self and it was good to see a number of her cartoons displayed during the show, many of which appeared first here on our favorite blog.

    There was a good turnout. Finchley folk it seems are not deterred by the prospect of a few noisy idiots and if the opposition was in the area, it didn't show, and a pleasant and peaceable nite was had by all.

    It's all a long way from Yorkshire, I know, but I'm sure you would have enjoyed it and been heartened by the spontaneous warmth of the audience to towards those who quietly risk their well-being daily in the cause of freedom of speech and thought.

    Wish I could have attended, sadly was up in the Midlands and stupidly didn't read OGH's note about the meeting in last night's thread header until after 10pm!
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015
    Ignore.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MaxPB said:

    Smarmeron said:
    You do realise they used a loophole created specifically by Gordon Brown so that British companies could invest overseas without creating a massive tax liability back home.
    Strangely enough exactly the same law was the reason the Boots moved their HQ to Switzerland and resulted in all the whinging from Labour a couple of weeks ago.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,921
    edited February 2015
    Neil

    "Calling Sean Fear, calling Sean Fear .. any chance of a story or two in light of this quote from the above article:

    "There are no queens in the National Front.""

    LOL!!!!!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,037
    edited February 2015
    James Chapman (Mail) (@jameschappers)
    26/02/2015 12:04
    .@comres/@itvnews poll: which party do you most trust to control immigration? LAB 14% CON 19% LIB 4% UKIP 36% DON'T KNOW 27%

    'As the final set of quarterly ONS figures before the General Election show that net migration to the UK has risen to 298,000 - 54,000 higher than it was when David Cameron came to power in 2010 - the latest poll conducted by ComRes for ITV News reveals that more than half (55%) of all adult Brits think immigration has a negative impact on the NHS, while two in five (40%) say immigration has a negative impact on the economy.

    However, Brits also believe that immigration has no impact on themselves personally (51%) or on their ability to find a job (44%).

    Ahead of their conference in Margate this weekend, UKIP remain by far the most trusted party to control the issue of immigration (36%).'
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Neil said:

    JohnO said:

    Neil said:

    Indigo said:

    antifrank said:

    No comment:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/26/ukips-lgbt-chair-quits-i-couldnt-defend-the-party-any-more/

    "“I stepped down from my position as Founder-Chairman of LGBT* in UKIP, and resigned my membership of UKIP, due to disillusionment of policy direction and dissatisfaction at the failure of the leadership to set a gay-friendly tone."

    At the same time, across the channel we get

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/02/marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote-and-its-jewish-one/
    Calling Sean Fear, calling Sean Fear .. any chance of a story or two in light of this quote from the above article:

    "There are no queens in the National Front."
    Talking of old queens, just what is a Leader supposed to do?

    http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/elmbridge/11819802.Complaints_over_elderly_men_in_tennis_skirts_having_Sunday_sex_sessions_in_park/?ref=mac
    Brilliant: "At this point he discovered a handwritten note with an offer he did not want to take up"

    Cant we enoble these old men so they can carry out their cross-dressing sexual exploits in the comfort of the House of Lords and ermine robes?
    Thinks...Brian Coleman in a tennis skirt...that's set me up for the afternoon!
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,066
    Indigo - I would disagree somewhat. One of the problems on the left has been a preference for communitarianism when dealing with minority religious groups rather than stressing the Britishness of individual rights. We are free to defy our family or community wishes and are not responsible for their actions. Isn't this the cornerstone of our justice system, that we are judged as individuals? I don't think it began with the welfare state.

    My own view is that there is a problem but I would see it as a different one. The modern economy and in particular our consumer society focuses us on making money and consequently not enough on looking after family and friends.
  • Options

    Part-ELBOW for the seven polls released so far this week (inc. last night's YG) =

    Lab lead 0.4%, which if carried through to Sunday, would be their smallest lead yet in ELBOW (started 10th August).

    Or if you prefer the simple average of these polls, Lab are 0.9% ahead.

    Take your pick :)

    Can't you put some grease on that ELBOW, Sunil? It creaks steadily towards Crossover, but oh so slowly.

    Why, even Young Jack moves faster.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The real tell is that outside of a few success stories, most of the biggest employers and biggest companies in Britain tend to be foreign owned with foreign management. Land Rover is the classic example of a homegrown failure being taken over by a foreign company who make it successful by investing money and bringing proper long term thinking rather than ensuring there is enough money in the bank to pay the next dividend and director bonus pot.

    This is nonsense. You are ignoring all the British companies which have taken over and made a success of foreign firms. Vodafone, GKN, National Grid, Compass, Diageo, Unilever (OK, that's one's Anglo-Dutch), BAe, to name the first few which occur to me. There are plenty more.

    We have a very successful, international, open economy. The traffic is two-way.
    Those are all part of the "few", add Rolls Royce, JCB, pharma and banking/finance and there you have pretty much all of Britain's homegrown success stories. I would probably add BT as well, the management's investment plan is quite aggressive and their FTTdp/G.Fast plan will take British internet out of the stone ages.

    As a whole my experience of British management is poor. Overly concerned with their bonuses and making sure the shareholders get their returns. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't much better with Japanese management which was about firefighting a lot of the time because of poor economic performance domestically, but they still had a long term plan of sorts. Even American companies are better.

    I think the major issue is that we don't, as a country, incentivise investment over shareholder returns. A higher dividend tax and R&D/investment tax breaks would work well and attract more export oriented companies to the country. I would also eliminate stamp duty on shares, which is a FTT in all but name.

    On my chair clapping and roaring approval. Sometimes it's not the government's fault.

  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited February 2015
    @MaxPB
    The original idea for "off shoring" was all the work of your "blessed lady M"
    Make the country wealthy by allowing capital to "fly free"
    And fly it did....to Panama, Switzerland, and any roosting place outside the UK it could find.
    It isn't the Conservatives or New Labour I argue against, it is the mind numbing irrationality of believing the wealthy or business give flying frogs fornication about the UK.
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015



    The thing is if we believe the Government that Russia has designs on the Baltic nations (and perhaps other areas of Eastern Europe) and then the British Government gives a massive signal to Russia by reneging on NATO commitments for them to start to plan to take them back (much as the Tories did in the mid 1930's with Germany) will it be any surprise should the Russian tanks start rolling?

    .......to be continued

    Meanwhile...

    'Russia's military budget may shrink by around 10 percent in 2015, the chief executive of state-owned defense conglomerate Rostec said on Monday.'

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/23/us-russia-crisis-arms-rostec-idUSKBN0LR10P20150223
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    JohnO said:

    Neil said:

    JohnO said:

    Neil said:

    Indigo said:

    antifrank said:

    No comment:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/02/26/ukips-lgbt-chair-quits-i-couldnt-defend-the-party-any-more/

    "“I stepped down from my position as Founder-Chairman of LGBT* in UKIP, and resigned my membership of UKIP, due to disillusionment of policy direction and dissatisfaction at the failure of the leadership to set a gay-friendly tone."

    At the same time, across the channel we get

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/02/marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote-and-its-jewish-one/
    Calling Sean Fear, calling Sean Fear .. any chance of a story or two in light of this quote from the above article:

    "There are no queens in the National Front."
    Talking of old queens, just what is a Leader supposed to do?

    http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/elmbridge/11819802.Complaints_over_elderly_men_in_tennis_skirts_having_Sunday_sex_sessions_in_park/?ref=mac
    Brilliant: "At this point he discovered a handwritten note with an offer he did not want to take up"

    Cant we enoble these old men so they can carry out their cross-dressing sexual exploits in the comfort of the House of Lords and ermine robes?
    Thinks...Brian Coleman in a tennis skirt...that's set me up for the afternoon!
    Colemanballs?
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    MaxPB said:

    The real tell is that outside of a few success stories, most of the biggest employers and biggest companies in Britain tend to be foreign owned with foreign management. Land Rover is the classic example of a homegrown failure being taken over by a foreign company who make it successful by investing money and bringing proper long term thinking rather than ensuring there is enough money in the bank to pay the next dividend and director bonus pot.

    This is nonsense. You are ignoring all the British companies which have taken over and made a success of foreign firms. Vodafone, GKN, National Grid, Compass, Diageo, Unilever (OK, that's one's Anglo-Dutch), BAe, to name the first few which occur to me. There are plenty more.

    We have a very successful, international, open economy. The traffic is two-way.
    And yet we can wonder why no British-owned company makes trains in the land that invented them. Some politicians want to nationalise the railways. This would be completely stupid if the unions have not changed their attitude to British industry. The TV programme about British Rail explained how innovative trains were prevented from full trials because ALEF insisted on two drivers in the cabs of the new diesel trains.

  • Options

    Part-ELBOW for the seven polls released so far this week (inc. last night's YG) =

    Lab lead 0.4%, which if carried through to Sunday, would be their smallest lead yet in ELBOW (started 10th August).

    Or if you prefer the simple average of these polls, Lab are 0.9% ahead.

    Take your pick :)

    Can't you put some grease on that ELBOW, Sunil? It creaks steadily towards Crossover, but oh so slowly.

    Why, even Young Jack moves faster.
    A couple more YG ties or indeed Tory leads should give us Crossover by Sunday - unless Populus beg to differ! I think there's also an Opinium due on Saturday (now weekly).
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2015

    Indigo - I would disagree somewhat. One of the problems on the left has been a preference for communitarianism when dealing with minority religious groups rather than stressing the Britishness of individual rights. We are free to defy our family or community wishes and are not responsible for their actions. Isn't this the cornerstone of our justice system, that we are judged as individuals? I don't think it began with the welfare state..

    The left preferred communitarianism for minority religious groups after they were established, it had no respect for the existing communities as they were getting established. The existing communities that suddenly had a new culture imposed of them without so much as a by your leave, and then looked on in horror as the culture and character of an area in which many were born and grew up changed out of all recognition. Then when they try and complain we accuse them of not respecting the culture and community of the incoming religious minorities.

    Most (modern) communitarianists would argue that society should be a blend of balance between liberty and social order, between individual rights and social responsibilities, and between pluralistic and socially established values, this last being the Britishness we agree upon.
  • Options
    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    Ha! I'm in the 50 Cups of Grey category myself. Too much Bergamot appears to dry my eyes out though - a most peculiar side effect of too much tea!

    JackW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @JackW

    So then, the question we're all waiting for.

    Was your sudden disappearance from PB a couple of weeks ago related to the release of Fifty Shades Of Grey at the flicks? :O

    TSE opined that yourself and the Good Lady Jack went in expecting an historical biopic about Lady Jane Grey and were... Somewhat surprised... But I'm not buying it...

    Actually no.

    I thought "Fifty Shades Of Grey" was a biopic on the political career of John Major whereas Mrs JackW thought it was a documentary about Earl Grey tea.

    Imagine our surprise .... when it turned out to be a tame and dreary tale about events we both had forgotten about many decades ago !!

    The quality also varies greatly and not just based on price.

    Williamson teas are a favourite but M&S and Aldi also produce a decent brew.

    Aldi? Had you down as more of a Lidl man :)
  • Options
    @Sunil

    The film was good , but too long - close on two hours, which limited the discussion time afterwards. That was a shame, because the panel was worth hearing.

    The main impression I came away with was that Charlie Hebdo was a massacre waiting to happen. The film footage of cartoonists operating in places as disparate as Algeria, Venezuela, Burkino Fasso, Russia, New York and Paris gave ample evidence that Hebdo was just a spectacular manifestation of a common disorder.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Smarmeron said:

    @MaxPB
    The original idea for "off shoring" was all the work of your "blessed lady M"
    Make the country wealthy by allowing capital to "fly free"
    And fly it did....to Panama, Switzerland, and any roosting place outside the UK it could find.
    It isn't the Conservatives or New Labour I argue against, it is the mind numbing irrationality of believing the wealthy or business give flying frogs fornication about the UK.

    If you believe that then being in the EU which not only facilities the flight of capital, but positively encourages its movement to the lowest tax regime (and in which the current president of the EU in his former role as president of Luxembourg ensured that the lowest tax was almost zero) is complete idiocy.
  • Options

    Part-ELBOW for the seven polls released so far this week (inc. last night's YG) =

    Lab lead 0.4%, which if carried through to Sunday, would be their smallest lead yet in ELBOW (started 10th August).

    Or if you prefer the simple average of these polls, Lab are 0.9% ahead.

    Take your pick :)

    Can't you put some grease on that ELBOW, Sunil? It creaks steadily towards Crossover, but oh so slowly.

    Why, even Young Jack moves faster.
    A couple more YG ties or indeed Tory leads should give us Crossover by Sunday - unless Populus beg to differ! I think there's also an Opinium due on Saturday (now weekly).
    Better late than never, Sunil.

    What will you do with yourself when it is no longer necessary to spend your evenings leafleting Ilford North?
  • Options
    Indigo said:

    Indigo - I would disagree somewhat. One of the problems on the left has been a preference for communitarianism when dealing with minority religious groups rather than stressing the Britishness of individual rights. We are free to defy our family or community wishes and are not responsible for their actions. Isn't this the cornerstone of our justice system, that we are judged as individuals? I don't think it began with the welfare state..

    The left preferred communitarianism for minority religious groups after they were established, it had no respect for the existing communities as they were getting established. The existing communities that suddenly had a new culture imposed of them without so much as a by your leave, and then looked on in horror as the culture and character of an area in which many were born and grew up changed out of all recognition. Then when they try and complain we accuse them of not respecting the culture and community of the incoming religious minorities.

    Most (modern) communitarianists would argue that society should be a blend of balance between liberty and social order, between individual rights and social responsibilities, and between pluralistic and socially established values, this last being the Britishness we agree upon.

    And what was the right doing all this time? Are you seriously suggesting that there was no displacement of existing communities in areas or at times when the right ran the show? I remember living in Brum in the mid-80s in an area (Sparkbrook/Balsall Heath) that was almost entirely populated by Pakistani Moslems.
  • Options

    @Sunil

    The film was good , but too long - close on two hours, which limited the discussion time afterwards. That was a shame, because the panel was worth hearing.

    The main impression I came away with was that Charlie Hebdo was a massacre waiting to happen. The film footage of cartoonists operating in places as disparate as Algeria, Venezuela, Burkino Fasso, Russia, New York and Paris gave ample evidence that Hebdo was just a spectacular manifestation of a common disorder.

    Thanks, Peter, interesting stuff, but also a tad worrying.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,187

    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    Ha! I'm in the 50 Cups of Grey category myself. Too much Bergamot appears to dry my eyes out though - a most peculiar side effect of too much tea!

    JackW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    @JackW

    So then, the question we're all waiting for.

    Was your sudden disappearance from PB a couple of weeks ago related to the release of Fifty Shades Of Grey at the flicks? :O

    TSE opined that yourself and the Good Lady Jack went in expecting an historical biopic about Lady Jane Grey and were... Somewhat surprised... But I'm not buying it...

    Actually no.

    I thought "Fifty Shades Of Grey" was a biopic on the political career of John Major whereas Mrs JackW thought it was a documentary about Earl Grey tea.

    Imagine our surprise .... when it turned out to be a tame and dreary tale about events we both had forgotten about many decades ago !!

    The quality also varies greatly and not just based on price.

    Williamson teas are a favourite but M&S and Aldi also produce a decent brew.

    Aldi? Had you down as more of a Lidl man :)
    A Lidl piece of Poland, a Lidl piece of France....

  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    Indigo - I would disagree somewhat. One of the problems on the left has been a preference for communitarianism when dealing with minority religious groups rather than stressing the Britishness of individual rights. We are free to defy our family or community wishes and are not responsible for their actions. Isn't this the cornerstone of our justice system, that we are judged as individuals? I don't think it began with the welfare state..

    The left preferred communitarianism for minority religious groups after they were established, it had no respect for the existing communities as they were getting established. The existing communities that suddenly had a new culture imposed of them without so much as a by your leave, and then looked on in horror as the culture and character of an area in which many were born and grew up changed out of all recognition. Then when they try and complain we accuse them of not respecting the culture and community of the incoming religious minorities.

    Most (modern) communitarianists would argue that society should be a blend of balance between liberty and social order, between individual rights and social responsibilities, and between pluralistic and socially established values, this last being the Britishness we agree upon.

    And what was the right doing all this time? Are you seriously suggesting that there was no displacement of existing communities in areas or at times when the right ran the show? I remember living in Brum in the mid-80s in an area (Sparkbrook/Balsall Heath) that was almost entirely populated by Pakistani Moslems.
    No, they are craven followers of political correctness as well.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Indigo
    A whole range of EU policy is idiotic, except for those that pay the lobbyists to get it pushed through.
    Democracy is supposed to be about putting "the people" in control, but it has degenerated into an unholy alliance between the kings and robber barons.
    Perhaps someday the peasants will grow a spine and stand up to them, but I am not holding my breath.
  • Options
    Hengists_GiftHengists_Gift Posts: 628
    edited February 2015



    Meanwhile...

    'Russia's military budget may shrink by around 10 percent in 2015, the chief executive of state-owned defense conglomerate Rostec said on Monday.'

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/23/us-russia-crisis-arms-rostec-idUSKBN0LR10P20150223

    From Wiki

    About 70% of the former Soviet Union's defense industries are located in the Russian Federation.[52] Many defense firms have been privatized; some have developed significant partnerships with firms in other countries.

    The recent steps towards modernization of the Armed Forces have been made possible by Russia's economic resurgence based on oil and gas revenues as well a strengthening of its own domestic market. Currently, the military is in the middle of a major equipment upgrade, with the government in the process of spending about $200 billion (what equals to about $400 billion in PPP dollars) on development and production of military equipment between 2006-2015 under the State Armament Programme for 2007-2015 (GPV — госпрограмма вооружения).[53] Mainly as a result of lessons learned during the August War, the State Armament Programme for 2011-2020 was launched in December 2010. Prime Minister Putin announced that 20-21.5 trillion rubles (over $650 billion) will be allocated to purchase new hardware in the next 10 years. The aim is to have a growth of 30% of modern equipment in the army, navy and air force by 2015, and of 70% by 2020. In some categories, the proportion of new weapon systems will reach 80% or even 100%.[54] At this point, the Russian MoD plans to purchase, among others, up to 250 ICBMs, 800 aircraft, 1,200 helicopters, 44 submarines, 36 frigates, 28 corvettes, 18 cruisers, 24 destroyers, 6 aircraft carriers, and 62 air defense battalions. Several existing types will be upgraded.[54][55]

    As of 2011, Russia's chief military prosecutor said that 20% of the defense budget was being stolen or defrauded yearly.[56]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Armed_Forces

    Well putting aside this quote from your linked piece of speculation:

    Last month, Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said there should be a 10 percent cut across all sectors of government spending except for defense, which was considered ring-fenced by President Vladimir Putin.

    If the above wiki quote is to be believed a clamp down on fraud could achieve the savings and even if not looking at the volumes of equipment in the pipeline I doubt a 10% cut will make a whole lot of difference. They'll just keep the equipment they've already got going a bit longer.



  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,066

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The real tell is that outside of a few success stories, most of the biggest employers and biggest companies in Britain tend to be foreign owned with foreign management. Land Rover is the classic example of a homegrown failure being taken over by a foreign company who make it successful by investing money and bringing proper long term thinking rather than ensuring there is enough money in the bank to pay the next dividend and director bonus pot.

    We have a very successful, international, open economy. The traffic is two-way.
    Those are all part of the "few", add Rolls Royce, JCB, pharma and banking/finance and there you have pretty much all of Britain's homegrown success stories. I would probably add BT as well, the management's investment plan is quite aggressive and their FTTdp/G.Fast plan will take British internet out of the stone ages.

    As a whole my experience of British management is poor. Overly concerned with their bonuses and making sure the shareholders get their returns. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't much better with Japanese management which was about firefighting a lot of the time because of poor economic performance domestically, but they still had a long term plan of sorts. Even American companies are better.

    I think the major issue is that we don't, as a country, incentivise investment over shareholder returns. A higher dividend tax and R&D/investment tax breaks would work well and attract more export oriented companies to the country. I would also eliminate stamp duty on shares, which is a FTT in all but name.

    On my chair clapping and roaring approval. Sometimes it's not the government's fault.

    Many people on the left seem to think that the problem is that the Tories are in power. I actually think the problem is that in many ways they aren't in power, merely in office. Cameron, Osborne and Clegg sit there like lemmings and expect the market to work its magic. Anyone who's actually paid attention to the British economy over a lifetime might think they'd be a problem with this. We have an executive class who's main talent in self-reward be it through buying back shares, paying dividends or whatever cunning scheme they can find to remunerate themselves at the expense of investment. Meanwhile much of the country remains reliant on Victorian infrastructure and we're left having to go to EDF and the Chinese government(!) to build a new generation of nuclear power stations. But the truth is we are far too supine. We may not respect the fat cats much any more but neither do we demand change.
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    Part-ELBOW for the seven polls released so far this week (inc. last night's YG) =

    Lab lead 0.4%, which if carried through to Sunday, would be their smallest lead yet in ELBOW (started 10th August).

    Or if you prefer the simple average of these polls, Lab are 0.9% ahead.

    Take your pick :)

    Can't you put some grease on that ELBOW, Sunil? It creaks steadily towards Crossover, but oh so slowly.

    Why, even Young Jack moves faster.
    A couple more YG ties or indeed Tory leads should give us Crossover by Sunday - unless Populus beg to differ! I think there's also an Opinium due on Saturday (now weekly).
    Better late than never, Sunil.

    What will you do with yourself when it is no longer necessary to spend your evenings leafleting Ilford North?
    I spend too much time on ELBOW to go out leafleting :)
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Charlton Athletic couple score.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31641876
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Anybody think George Osborne might take off the stealth taxes on pensions?
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @PAW
    I think Ozzie and Dave will say or do anything they can if they think it will get them re-elected.
    Like every other government they will then cite reasons why it can't be done at present.
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Sparkbrook/Balsall Heath - Roy Hattersley - when constituents came into the office with their worries about immigration "I had to dissemble, but when the constituency became 88% immigrant I could relax"
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Sparkbrook, the only place in Birmingham with steel shutters for the public library.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,605
    edited February 2015
    On topic

    ELBOWing only the two phone polls so far this week (ComRes/Mail and Ashcroft) gives a Lab lead of 0.9%

    ELBOWing only the online polls so far this week gives a Lab lead of 0.3%
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Smarmeron said:

    @Indigo
    A whole range of EU policy is idiotic, except for those that pay the lobbyists to get it pushed through.
    Democracy is supposed to be about putting "the people" in control, but it has degenerated into an unholy alliance between the kings and robber barons.
    Perhaps someday the peasants will grow a spine and stand up to them, but I am not holding my breath.

    The EU was in its inception precisely about taking the people out of the loop. Its core beliefs are the freedom movement of capital, labour, good and services, the very things which cause the tax problems of which you complain.

    Listen to Jean Monnet, architect of the European Union, such a democrat
    "Europe's nations should be guided towards a super state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation."
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    @Sunil

    The film was good , but too long - close on two hours, which limited the discussion time afterwards. That was a shame, because the panel was worth hearing.

    The main impression I came away with was that Charlie Hebdo was a massacre waiting to happen. The film footage of cartoonists operating in places as disparate as Algeria, Venezuela, Burkino Fasso, Russia, New York and Paris gave ample evidence that Hebdo was just a spectacular manifestation of a common disorder.

    Thanks, Peter, interesting stuff, but also a tad worrying.
    One of the astute points Aaronovitch made was that he could write all manner of critical comment about religions and their practitioners without any serous threat of reprisals, but if he drew them he'd be inviting trouble, not least from his Editor.

    The pen truly is mightier than the sword, especially when wielded by a penetrating cartoonist.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Indigo
    Unlike you, I have no fear of federation.
    What scares me are the "multi nationals" that belong to no country, but can play everyone off against the others to suit their shareholders.
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    With just four polls (I think!) left to go this month, the monthly aggregate ("Super-ELBOW") for February so far is Lab lead of 1.2%. (cf. 1.1% for all of January)
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    Many people on the left seem to think that the problem is that the Tories are in power. I actually think the problem is that in many ways they aren't in power, merely in office. Cameron, Osborne and Clegg sit there like lemmings and expect the market to work its magic. Anyone who's actually paid attention to the British economy over a lifetime might think they'd be a problem with this. We have an executive class who's main talent in self-reward be it through buying back shares, paying dividends or whatever cunning scheme they can find to remunerate themselves at the expense of investment. Meanwhile much of the country remains reliant on Victorian infrastructure and we're left having to go to EDF and the Chinese government(!) to build a new generation of nuclear power stations. But the truth is we are far too supine. We may not respect the fat cats much any more but neither do we demand change.

    On energy the issue isn't just with Cameron or Clegg, but with the poor level of expertise in Parliament. I literally can't understand the decision to pay the French and Chinese billions so they can saddle us with old technology for the next 50 years with dwindling Uranium supplies while both nations are investing in fourth and fifth generation reactors for their domestic markets.

    If the government is dead set on spending £30bn on nuclear power, it would be better off incorporating a new company, selling some bonds and begin investing in molten salt reactors for delivery in 10-12 years. We have the expertise in the country and we have the graduates, what we don't have is the competence in Parliament for a long term view. Gas in the near term and fourth generation molten salt reactors in the medium term and laser fusion in the long term.

    Another area in relation to energy policy is why we are spunking billions of pounds building a white elephant Tokomak in northern France when the Americans have achieved real fusion power for less than a tenth of the cost using lasers.

    Energy is the one policy area for which I would bother being an MP. The current policy position is basically stupid, old nuclear power, old coal plants, subsidies for stupid wind power or even more laughable solar power.
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    @Sunil

    The film was good , but too long - close on two hours, which limited the discussion time afterwards. That was a shame, because the panel was worth hearing.

    The main impression I came away with was that Charlie Hebdo was a massacre waiting to happen. The film footage of cartoonists operating in places as disparate as Algeria, Venezuela, Burkino Fasso, Russia, New York and Paris gave ample evidence that Hebdo was just a spectacular manifestation of a common disorder.

    Thanks, Peter, interesting stuff, but also a tad worrying.
    One of the astute points Aaronovitch made was that he could write all manner of critical comment about religions and their practitioners without any serous threat of reprisals, but if he drew them he'd be inviting trouble, not least from his Editor.

    The pen truly is mightier than the sword, especially when wielded by a penetrating cartoonist.
    We are all cartoonists now!
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,066
    Smarmeron said:

    @Indigo
    Unlike you, I have no fear of federation.
    What scares me are the "multi nationals" that belong to no country, but can play everyone off against the others to suit their shareholders.

    Actually I think a dishonest political elite is just as much of a problem. The left makes a mistake if it only focuses on problems in the private sphere.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,187

    That said, it would be easier to tweak phone polling than a panel.

    Massively easier to tweak an online panel, as the polling company knows lots about the people they invite to participate in each poll, whereas with a phone poll they only have whatever they can work out from the geographical location of where they are placing the phone call.

    What this means is that any rogue programmer at an online firm with access to the code that determines who on the panel is invited to participate could tweak the invites to select a sample more friendly to one side or the other if they wished to do so.

    Not that I think this has been done, but the opportunities are certainly much greater.
    OSM, that would be a little nearer to the fraud that Roger was mentioning. I'm not sure a "rogue programmer" defence fits in with the profile of delivering a slightly massaged poll - it would require the company to have very poor management controls - and for bells and whistles not to go off about a poll that didn't pass the smell test.

    Much easier for a management decision to, say, put a poll out in the field for five hours from 8.00 am if it is known that delivers a different outcome than one put out at 5 pm.

    Obviously, I have no knowledge of any such manipulation taking place. Only a suspicion that if inclined, maybe a polling company could deliver a result more favourable to one party than another.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    BenM said:

    Good news: immigration is up. Grown by 100k to 298,000.

    An indicator of a recovering economy.

    your in favor of immigration on a scale that depresses wages (at the lower end of the market obviously) and puts pressure on our already overloaded infrastructure and services .oh and pushes up house prices too?

    Just how many people do you think we can sustain and support?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Smarmeron said:

    @Indigo
    Unlike you, I have no fear of federation.
    What scares me are the "multi nationals" that belong to no country, but can play everyone off against the others to suit their shareholders.

    I am neither pro-nor-anti federation, I am anti-federation with no democratic will supporting it. It was observed in a report on the democratic deficit within the EU that
    EU policy outcomes are more in the interest of the owners of capital because private interest groups do not have to compete with democratic party politics”
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,066
    Max - I presume EDF must have thought it was a good idea? Perhaps our politicians were very flattered?
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    new thread
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771
    Charles said:

    Charles said:



    No.

    It isn't.

    If the taxpayer via HMG is offering loans and guarantees ( currently we're on the hook for £1trn ) and is in effect their bank, then like any bank HMG can call in loans to protect its interest and force a restructuring. The shareholders just have to stand back and suck it up or come up with more money of their own.

    The issue was simply a macro one. At a time when the banking sector was at risk of seizing up and the core national priority was to try and get credit flowing again, the last thing that everyone needed was complex restructuring.

    There is a clear objective in place to separate risk-led banking from the utility banking and I think that is absolutely the right model to follow. There's also a case for some regional banks (although I'd rather than national banks with a hub in one or two regions - otherwise everyone is going to be chasing into London rather than focusing on their core). But these things take time.
    The banking crisis hit in 2008.

    and should have been spent on anything from Maritime Patrol Aircraft and Frigates, to Schools and Transport Infrastructure.

    It's a complete disgrace.
    @Alanbrooke: you've ignored my argument. Yes they need to be broken up. But you need to do it once the economy is stronger & credit is flowing. The challenge is maintaining the momentum, but (speaking personally rather than for anyone, for the avoidance of doubt) I will be disappointed if there has been no structural change by 2020.

    @Watcher: most of the losses have already been made, it's just a question of when they are recognised. The operating businesses are profitable, and those without a USP or an attractive return on capital (eg Govetts or Coutts Intl) are progressively being sold or closed. The money the government has invested will be recovered in some form eventually - probably without much of a cash profit, but at least they'll get it back.
    I haven't ignored it I just disagree with it.

    The economy won't get going until the banks are broken up imo.

    Shoving taxpayer cash into acorrupt oligopy which puts itself first isn't going to change much.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    Max - I presume EDF must have thought it was a good idea? Perhaps our politicians were very flattered?

    I'm sure EDF (the French government) thinks it is a great idea to get £30bn for a bit of old rope.

    The problem with our politicians is that they are basically clueless. Look at Cameron on internet policy, he is basically an idiot who will believe anything the spooks tell him about surveillance and encryption and the same is true for energy policy. I'm sure some policy researcher will have brought up MSRs and when the politicians asked EDF I'm sure they were told it was impractical or not achievable so they could get £30bn for basically no real effort.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @FrankBooth
    It was the point I was making when I said "an unholy alliance between the kings and robber barons"
    Governments have come to believe that the only thing they need to be concerned with is that "business thrives", then the market will sort out the ills and injustices.
    The market has no morality though, and it should be the job of the state to supply and enforce morality on it.
This discussion has been closed.