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  • HYUFD said:

    Roger Austerity is the key, the surplus may be economist speak but further cuts to local libraries, the armed forces, the police, strains on the NHS etc most certainly are on the radar for most people. The economy is now doing a bit better, though still not yet fully at pre crash levels, so the voters are unlikely to give Labour a majority and put that at risk, however they will not give the Tories a majority either to prevent a slash and burn approach to public services

    For all its faults FPTP is quite likely to deliver that apparently popular position. Whether such a government can last more than a few months is however looking unlikely. To me the chance of a second election like '74 seems very likely.

    Some populist moves, divide the Tories over Europe , then fresh elections before the wheels come off, is the way to a Miliband majority.
    Its difficult to see what EdM could do within a few months to gain the extra support.

    In 1974 it was relatively easy for Labour to get the unions onside, and the lights back on, for a few months.

    Whereas now the wheels might fall off at anytime during an EdM government.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited February 2015

    Charles said:

    weejonnie said:

    Roger said:

    Coolagorna


    That should be Labours next campaign poster


    "Taking over a recovering economy that had grown for four
    quarters and flatlining it for two years

    Introducing a tax on Bedrooms causing suicides whilst cutting
    the rate of tax for the richest people in the country

    NHS in crisis thanks to unwanted and unelected reorganisation
    plans as well as introducing a disastrous phone service staffed
    by non medical people directing everyone who calls to A and E

    Record numbers of benefit sanctions, Record numbers at previously
    unheard of Food Banks..both connected

    Wages behind inflation for over four years

    Planning to help IS into power in Syria as part of "The Rebels'
    only to be stopped by Miliband, Lucas, Galloway, the Nats, Irish
    parties and a few sensible Tory rebels

    Deficit still high despite the years of failed austerity and
    pointless cutting of vital services

    Good public sector ft jobs replaced by zero hours and pt and
    bogus self employment and 2-80 an hour "apprenticeships""


    Thanks...it should indeed but the Blairites in the party would never
    allow it given that they support most of the neo-liberal nonsense
    that led to the above and were amongst the most enthusiastic for
    arming IS to overthrow Assad






    1) The bedroom tax isn't a tax at all. It is the removal of benefits to encourage people to downsize and release larger properties for those families that need them.
    2) It was introduced by Labour
    Is VAT a tax?

    Who put that up to 20%

    Despite telling Porkies they had no plans to do so.
    Do you know, for a fact, that they had plans to do so before the election?

    VAT is optional BJO. Don't consume, you don't have to pay.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2015
    TGOHF said:

    Charles said:

    weejonnie said:

    Roger said:

    Coolagorna


    That should be Labours next campaign poster


    "Taking over a recovering economy that had grown for four
    quarters and flatlining it for two years

    Introducing a tax on Bedrooms causing suicides whilst cutting
    the rate of tax for the richest people in the country

    NHS in crisis thanks to unwanted and unelected reorganisation
    plans as well as introducing a disastrous phone service staffed
    by non medical people directing everyone who calls to A and E

    Record numbers of benefit sanctions, Record numbers at previously
    unheard of Food Banks..both connected

    Wages behind inflation for over four years

    Planning to help IS into power in Syria as part of "The Rebels'
    only to be stopped by Miliband, Lucas, Galloway, the Nats, Irish
    parties and a few sensible Tory rebels

    Deficit still high despite the years of failed austerity and
    pointless cutting of vital services

    Good public sector ft jobs replaced by zero hours and pt and
    bogus self employment and 2-80 an hour "apprenticeships""
    Thanks...it should indeed but the Blairites in the party would never
    allow it given that they support most of the neo-liberal nonsense
    that led to the above and were amongst the most enthusiastic for
    arming IS to overthrow Assad

    1) The bedroom tax isn't a tax at all. It is the removal of benefits to encourage people to downsize and release larger properties for those families that need them.
    2) It was introduced by Labour
    Is VAT a tax?

    Who put that up to 20%

    Despite telling Porkies they had no plans to do so.
    Do you know, for a fact, that they had plans to do so before the election?
    (VAT is optional BJO. Don't consume, you don't have to pay.)
    No, according to some in the Labour party VAT is on an essential, our food. Ask Spencer Livermore the "Labour campaign manager".
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    Another Richard

    "Given that the FTSE100 was nearly 20% higher in May 2010 than in May 1997 and has increased by less than a third since then your valuations are not believable.

    And given your personal history especially so."

    Actually knowing Easterross to be the worst predictor of Scottish elections on here despite living in Scotland I don't find it at all surprising that he managed to choose the worst pension scheme in existence to invest his pension.
  • Mr. Owls, when you say 'PB Tories' who are you referring to? Me, someone on the right but not a Conservative (yet often labelled such by leftwingers, when I'm not being called a Kipper)? Mr. Neil, that renowned Conservative mole in the Green Party?

    It's tedious to create a strawman by using one individual's comments and then applying them to a whole mass of people who don't actually fall into the category which others like to pretend they do.

    We need some sort of poll or official list of who the PB Tories are.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    So Chubby Prescott is back on the gravy train according to EdM he will travel the world to meet with foreign heads of state to ..and get this...Raise their Ambitions re global warming..How effing patronising can the Geek get.

    Its a dog whistle to get Labour voters wavering with the Greens back on board.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    TGOHF said:

    Charles said:

    weejonnie said:

    Roger said:

    Coolagorna


    That should be Labours next campaign poster


    "Taking over a recovering economy that had grown for four
    quarters and flatlining it for two years

    Introducing a tax on Bedrooms causing suicides whilst cutting
    the rate of tax for the richest people in the country

    NHS in crisis thanks to unwanted and unelected reorganisation
    plans as well as introducing a disastrous phone service staffed
    by non medical people directing everyone who calls to A and E

    Record numbers of benefit sanctions, Record numbers at previously
    unheard of Food Banks..both connected

    Wages behind inflation for over four years

    Planning to help IS into power in Syria as part of "The Rebels'
    only to be stopped by Miliband, Lucas, Galloway, the Nats, Irish
    parties and a few sensible Tory rebels

    Deficit still high despite the years of failed austerity and
    pointless cutting of vital services

    Good public sector ft jobs replaced by zero hours and pt and
    bogus self employment and 2-80 an hour "apprenticeships""
    Thanks...it should indeed but the Blairites in the party would never
    allow it given that they support most of the neo-liberal nonsense
    that led to the above and were amongst the most enthusiastic for
    arming IS to overthrow Assad

    1) The bedroom tax isn't a tax at all. It is the removal of benefits to encourage people to downsize and release larger properties for those families that need them.
    2) It was introduced by Labour
    Is VAT a tax?

    Who put that up to 20%

    Despite telling Porkies they had no plans to do so.
    Do you know, for a fact, that they had plans to do so before the election?
    (VAT is optional BJO. Don't consume, you don't have to pay.)
    No, according to some in the Labour party VAT is on an essential, our food. Ask Spencer Livermore the "Labour campaign manager".


    Maybe he does all his eating in restaurants?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Fox I think a second election unlikely because of the Fixed Parliaments Act, even if it does require a Tory-LD-DUP deal including an EU referendum. If Miliband fails to win most seats, he is clearly a big part of Labour's problem, and they would have to dump him first

    I do not see how the fixed term parliament act can make an untenable situation tenable. A Miliband government enjoying a Syrizia like honeymoon, (a nice payrise for the NHS would go down sweetly) and a new Tory leader itching to regain the kipper vote would both want an early second election.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Morning all :)

    Inconceivable that having "won" the GE, Miliband would turn round and sack the SCoE. I do think a move in the first re-shuffle is possible but it's only re-elected PMs or Governments in crisis that start dropping Chancellors.

    Blair could and arguably should have fired Brown in 2005 while we all know what happened to Norman Lamont and Geoffrey Howe.

    What will be interesting is the struggle for power over economic issues - Blair abdicated the power to Brown and I have a sense there has been an on-going struggle between No's 10 and 11 during the life of the Coalition and I remain far from convinced the Cameron-Osborne relationship is what it was though it is symbiotic.
  • Mr. Owls, when you say 'PB Tories' who are you referring to? Me, someone on the right but not a Conservative (yet often labelled such by leftwingers, when I'm not being called a Kipper)? Mr. Neil, that renowned Conservative mole in the Green Party?

    It's tedious to create a strawman by using one individual's comments and then applying them to a whole mass of people who don't actually fall into the category which others like to pretend they do.

    We need some sort of poll or official list of who the PB Tories are.
    You mean a sort of "String 'em up list" for when the Red Revolution comes.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Warsi again... How many times has Cameron regretted that bit of PC box ticking now ?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11427370/Islamic-radicals-at-the-heart-of-Whitehall.html
    But now, according to one Muslim leader, Islamic radicals are practising entryism of their own — into the heart of Whitehall – courtesy of a woman who was until recently a government minister.

    Some members of the group are using their seats at the table to urge that Whitehall work with Islamist and extremist-linked bodies, including one described by the Prime Minister as a “political front for the Muslim Brotherhood”. Some are also pressing to lift bans on foreign hate preachers from entering Britain, including Zakir Naik, who has stated that “every Muslim should be a terrorist”.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    In the fifties we had food banks..they were run by the Salvation Army..in my home town the Cons club organised almost free hot meals and the Rotary Club..alongside the Lions club were very active in organising free meals..mainly run by Conservatives of course..Cannot remember anything from the Labour side of the town
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    Fox Firstly Miliband is not Alexis Tsipras, more Hollande, and second he is offering austerity lite not austerity end, unlike Syriza, so there will be no honeymoon. There would only be a new Tory leader if Cameron came second on seats and votes, I remain of the view that is unlikely
  • HYUFD said:

    Fox I think a second election unlikely because of the Fixed Parliaments Act, even if it does require a Tory-LD-DUP deal including an EU referendum. If Miliband fails to win most seats, he is clearly a big part of Labour's problem, and they would have to dump him first

    I do not see how the fixed term parliament act can make an untenable situation tenable. A Miliband government enjoying a Syrizia like honeymoon, (a nice payrise for the NHS would go down sweetly) and a new Tory leader itching to regain the kipper vote would both want an early second election.
    As Parliament has sod all to do at the moment and senior figures on all sides think the fixed parliaments act was a huge mistake, then senior backbenchers should take Simon Heffer's recent advice and join forces across the aisles and repeal the act just before the election.
  • Mr. Indigo, Warsi's appointment was a disgrace, and it appears she's done more harm than good on top of that.

    Still, let us be thankful she warned us of the dangers of secularists.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708
    I hadn't thought that about Balls but it wouldn't surprise me. Seeing Chuka and Rachel Reeves mentioned does make me groan though. I'd imagine the latter in particular is certainly knowledgeable on economic matters but I find it hard to believe in any other major country such inexperienced people would be considered for such a major role. What on earth happened to the talent coming through the Labour party in the Blair-Brown years?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited February 2015
    Small elephant in room.....

    What if Balls wasn't even there. After all he holds the seat with a slender majority of 1200 requiring only a 1% swing in the constituency to the Tories. Ideal target for a decapitation strategy and a "Portillo moment?"

    The election proper haven't even started yet. Having made two blunders ( as well as calling everything wrong in the last 5 years of course let's not lose sight of that) he could be vulnerable to his own voters.

    Will that effect Mrs Balls leadership chances if that happens I wonder?


    Oh well..... I am sure that towering colossus two jags will sort it out.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    It was Truman who got the US out of the great depression by repealing the many and bizarre statist policies Mussolini admiring FDR introduced that prolonged a banking crisis. Should have learnt from Harding.

    Given the improving economy the Conservatives would easily achieve a majority after having ruled as a minority for a few months.
  • Indigo said:

    So Chubby Prescott is back on the gravy train according to EdM he will travel the world to meet with foreign heads of state to ..and get this...Raise their Ambitions re global warming..How effing patronising can the Geek get.

    Its a dog whistle to get Labour voters wavering with the Greens back on board.
    The argument seems to be that Prescott has considerable experience of sorting out international deals on climate thanks to the Kyoto agreement.
  • HYUFD said:

    Fox I think a second election unlikely because of the Fixed Parliaments Act, even if it does require a Tory-LD-DUP deal including an EU referendum. If Miliband fails to win most seats, he is clearly a big part of Labour's problem, and they would have to dump him first

    I do not see how the fixed term parliament act can make an untenable situation tenable. A Miliband government enjoying a Syrizia like honeymoon, (a nice payrise for the NHS would go down sweetly) and a new Tory leader itching to regain the kipper vote would both want an early second election.
    It sounds unlikely those things would both happen at the same time, unless the kippers had a substantial number of _seats_ that they could lose in a second election. Without a third party with seats, Lab-Con is zero-sum and Lab will never be up unless Con is down, and vice versa.

    Obviously minor parties getting seats changes the game, but that's more likely to work in the opposite direction: UKIP score a bunch of respectable seconds, but need a new election to focus on those and turn them into firsts. That means Lab and Con have an incentive to work something out that will avoid a new election until this whole multi-party politics fad blows over..
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    HYUFD said:

    Fox Firstly Miliband is not Alexis Tsipras, more Hollande, and second he is offering austerity lite not austerity end, unlike Syriza, so there will be no honeymoon. There would only be a new Tory leader if Cameron came second on seats and votes, I remain of the view that is unlikely

    In reality it wont even be AusterityLite, it might start off as Cuddly Austerity or Austerity With A Cherry On Top, but since Labour will inevitably piss large amounts of public money against the wall, particularly if Balls is eased out, it will end up having to be worse austerity than the Tories were planning, or he will crash the economy into the ground again.
  • HYUFD said:

    Fox Firstly Miliband is not Alexis Tsipras, more Hollande, and second he is offering austerity lite not austerity end, unlike Syriza, so there will be no honeymoon. There would only be a new Tory leader if Cameron came second on seats and votes, I remain of the view that is unlikely

    If the Rainbow Coalition comes to fruition perhaps with Ms
    Lucas offered a post and with Leanne and Nicola offering moral
    support over the airwaves to the new Government there will
    definitely be a honeymoon period as Britain basks in a period
    of Governance by progressive sensible articulate women from
    three nations as opposed to the last five years of being governed
    by out of touch posh boys and failed PR men from the same
    sociopathic Educational background

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    So Chubby Prescott is back on the gravy train according to EdM he will travel the world to meet with foreign heads of state to ..and get this...Raise their Ambitions re global warming..How effing patronising can the Geek get.

    Its a dog whistle to get Labour voters wavering with the Greens back on board.
    The argument seems to be that Prescott has considerable experience of sorting out international deals on climate thanks to the Kyoto agreement.
    Yes, but given the timing, does Ed currently care about climate deals, or is he trying to get the Green vote back on board for May ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Tom Gordon of the Herald reporting that Labour councillors in East Kilbride are flatly refusing to campaign for the sitting SLAB MP because of his behaviour towards them. Wife of ex SLAB Holyrood minister Andy Kerr quoted and particularly hostile. Good news for the SNP in a key target seat.

    Indeed. Also in the Herald - and relevant for betting - is that Mr Coburn MEP has reportedly backtracked from his promises to stand against Mr Salmond in the Gordon constituency.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/ukip-mep-running-scared-of-election-fight-against-salmond.119023021

    I notice BTW that UKIP are seemingly confusing Westminster with Holyrood matters ...

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Moses_ said:

    The election proper haven't even started yet. Having made two blunders ( as well as calling everything wrong in the last 5 years of course let's not lose sight of that) he could be vulnerable to his own voters.

    Is there such a thing a negative personal vote (the former Member for Tatton accepted). Where the incumbent is so badly thought of by his constituents that its only the colour of his rosette keeping him in a job, and actually an unknown new face in the same coloured rosette would do better
  • I hadn't thought that about Balls but it wouldn't surprise me. Seeing Chuka and Rachel Reeves mentioned does make me groan though. I'd imagine the latter in particular is certainly knowledgeable on economic matters but I find it hard to believe in any other major country such inexperienced people would be considered for such a major role. What on earth happened to the talent coming through the Labour party in the Blair-Brown years?

    Very few people seem to like or even rate Balls, but there's no denying he is a serious economist with substantial knowledge and experience at the heart of the treasury. It would be ridiculous to put someone else in there should Lab stagger across the threshold.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    Indigo said:

    So Chubby Prescott is back on the gravy train according to EdM he will travel the world to meet with foreign heads of state to ..and get this...Raise their Ambitions re global warming..How effing patronising can the Geek get.

    Its a dog whistle to get Labour voters wavering with the Greens back on board.
    The argument seems to be that Prescott has considerable experience of sorting out international deals on climate thanks to the Kyoto agreement.
    John Prescott carries considerable weight.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708
    stodge - Blair couldn't have sacked Brown in 2005 he was far too weak. His post-election reshuffle was a disaster. He would have been well within his rights to sack Brown in 2001 and I think he considered it, but replace him with whom? I also think one of the reasons Blair lasted as long as PM as he did was because Brown sometimes gave the sense of 'real Labour' within the government.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    HYUFD said:

    Fox Firstly Miliband is not Alexis Tsipras, more Hollande, and second he is offering austerity lite not austerity end, unlike Syriza, so there will be no honeymoon. There would only be a new Tory leader if Cameron came second on seats and votes, I remain of the view that is unlikely

    If the Rainbow Coalition comes to fruition perhaps with Ms
    Lucas offered a post and with Leanne and Nicola offering moral
    support over the airwaves to the new Government there will
    definitely be a honeymoon period as Britain basks in a period
    of Governance by progressive sensible articulate women from
    three nations as opposed to the last five years of being governed
    by out of touch posh boys and failed PR men from the same
    sociopathic Educational background

    If you blink you would miss it as lots of rich people and employers move overseas (see President Hollande) and the markets freak out interest rates go through the roof.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:
    Labour MPs surely? With Lord Kinnock spending £250 on lunch?

    Leading the list of donors unveiled tonight by Labour are Rod Aldridge, chair of the outsourcing giant Capita, who has a proliferation of contracts in the public sector. He loaned Labour £1m last year. Also on the list is Richard Caring, owner of the high-class Ivy restaurant. He offered Labour £2m.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/mar/20/constitution.uk
    Is that the same Richard Caring who has/had an account at HSBC Switzerland?

    I should stress, of course, that - as Ed Miliband will attest - having a foreign bank account is entirely legal and in no way evidence of anything dodgy going on.
    Just for full disclosure, I too have a foreign bank account.
    As do I.
    Me too. It has a hundred euros in it.

    Shall we hand ourselves in, Charles, and throw ourselves on the mercy of the Authorities?
    May be ok for you. I have SIX hundred dollars in mine. What do you think the court of public opinion would sentence me to?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Fox Firstly Miliband is not Alexis Tsipras, more Hollande, and second he is offering austerity lite not austerity end, unlike Syriza, so there will be no honeymoon. There would only be a new Tory leader if Cameron came second on seats and votes, I remain of the view that is unlikely

    Pretty much all PM's get an initial honeymoon, Major, Brown included, even Hollande did well for a few months. Denying austerity would be popular until a few chickens come home to roost.

    Cameron would resign fairly quickly after losing, what else could he do? Though a Lame duck Cameron LOTO would be even more tempting for a briefly popular Milliband.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708
    FalseFlag said:

    It was Truman who got the US out of the great depression by repealing the many and bizarre statist policies Mussolini admiring FDR introduced that prolonged a banking crisis. Should have learnt from Harding.

    Given the improving economy the Conservatives would easily achieve a majority after having ruled as a minority for a few months.

    Depends who Labour pick as new leader. If the Tories couldn't beat EdM, could they really beat a more popular Labour leader? Cameron won't be a new PM so don't expect a honeymoon period either.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    weejonnie said:

    Roger said:

    Coolagorna


    That should be Labours next campaign poster


    "Taking over a recovering economy that had grown for four
    quarters and flatlining it for two years

    Introducing a tax on Bedrooms causing suicides whilst cutting
    the rate of tax for the richest people in the country

    NHS in crisis thanks to unwanted and unelected reorganisation
    plans as well as introducing a disastrous phone service staffed
    by non medical people directing everyone who calls to A and E

    Record numbers of benefit sanctions, Record numbers at previously
    unheard of Food Banks..both connected

    Wages behind inflation for over four years

    Planning to help IS into power in Syria as part of "The Rebels'
    only to be stopped by Miliband, Lucas, Galloway, the Nats, Irish
    parties and a few sensible Tory rebels

    Deficit still high despite the years of failed austerity and
    pointless cutting of vital services

    Good public sector ft jobs replaced by zero hours and pt and
    bogus self employment and 2-80 an hour "apprenticeships""


    Thanks...it should indeed but the Blairites in the party would never
    allow it given that they support most of the neo-liberal nonsense
    that led to the above and were amongst the most enthusiastic for
    arming IS to overthrow Assad






    1) The bedroom tax isn't a tax at all. It is the removal of benefits to encourage people to downsize and release larger properties for those families that need them.
    2) It was introduced by Labour
    Is VAT a tax?

    Who put that up to 20%

    Despite telling Porkies they had no plans to do so.
    Do you know, for a fact, that they had plans to do so before the election?

    Are you serious?

    Of course the same phrase is being used now by the same party. You know the one that the IFS says has the biggest black hole in its plans

    Well, you're accusing them of lying. So I assume you have evidence of that.

    Because I know you're an honorable man and wouldn't stoop to smearing someone without evidence?
  • I don't have a foreign bank account. According to Milibandite doctrine, I believe this means you chaps should give me all the money that was in your accounts and implore me to remove the stain of dodginess from your reputations.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    It has been a while and he has had lots of time to think about it so what will EdM go with at the next PMQ,s
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,893
    Just had the Labour party propaganda "news" through the door - no mention of Ed Miliband, but then again no mention of David Cameron on the Conservative paper.
  • F1: it's faintly ridiculous that a failure to get a seal working properly is costing McLaren dear.
  • It's that time of the week again!

    The Sunil on Sunday ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week) for 22nd Feb.
    11 polls, total weighted sample 11,915

    Lab 33.1% (-0.8)
    Con 32.1% (-0.3)
    UKIP 14.9% (+0.7)
    LD 8.0% (+0.5)
    Green 6.5% (+0.3)


    * Lab lead down to 1.0% (-0.5)
    * Lab down, but also Tories down a touch.
    * LibDem lead over Greens 1.6% (+0.3)
    * UKIP recover ground from six month low last week
    * Greens recover a touch from their 2015 low last week

    LibDems on their highest score since 12th October!

    Just for a bit of fun, and to partially placate Mike:

    Including Five YouGovs only: 33.5, 32.1, 14.9, 7.6, 6.6 = Lab lead 1.4
    Including Six non-YouGovs only: 32.7, 32.1, 14.9, 8.5, 6.3 = Lab lead 0.6

    Was it all you were hoping for?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Morris_Dancer
    For what reason would you need a foreign account (secret) Mr.D?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I don't have a foreign bank account. According to Milibandite doctrine, I believe this means you chaps should give me all the money that was in your accounts and implore me to remove the stain of dodginess from your reputations.

    I keep some foreign cash as a float for travel, both Yankee dollars and Euros. I have no receipts either?

    Do I need to turn myself in?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:
    Labour MPs surely? With Lord Kinnock spending £250 on lunch?

    Leading the list of donors unveiled tonight by Labour are Rod Aldridge, chair of the outsourcing giant Capita, who has a proliferation of contracts in the public sector. He loaned Labour £1m last year. Also on the list is Richard Caring, owner of the high-class Ivy restaurant. He offered Labour £2m.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/mar/20/constitution.uk
    Is that the same Richard Caring who has/had an account at HSBC Switzerland?

    I should stress, of course, that - as Ed Miliband will attest - having a foreign bank account is entirely legal and in no way evidence of anything dodgy going on.
    Just for full disclosure, I too have a foreign bank account.
    As do I.
    Me too. It has a hundred euros in it.

    Shall we hand ourselves in, Charles, and throw ourselves on the mercy of the Authorities?
    May be ok for you. I have SIX hundred dollars in mine. What do you think the court of public opinion would sentence me to?
    I would have thought that burning at the stake would be a minima if it wasn't for all those concerns about global warming and CO2 output.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,893
    Carnyx said:

    Tom Gordon of the Herald reporting that Labour councillors in East Kilbride are flatly refusing to campaign for the sitting SLAB MP because of his behaviour towards them. Wife of ex SLAB Holyrood minister Andy Kerr quoted and particularly hostile. Good news for the SNP in a key target seat.

    Indeed. Also in the Herald - and relevant for betting - is that Mr Coburn MEP has reportedly backtracked from his promises to stand against Mr Salmond in the Gordon constituency.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/ukip-mep-running-scared-of-election-fight-against-salmond.119023021

    I notice BTW that UKIP are seemingly confusing Westminster with Holyrood matters ...

    Coburn wants to stop the Jacobite rebellion or something.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    I don't have a foreign bank account. According to Milibandite doctrine, I believe this means you chaps should give me all the money that was in your accounts and implore me to remove the stain of dodginess from your reputations.

    I have a foreign bank account, and I live abroad, and I don't pay any tax in the UK, and I am critical of the Labour Party, all I need is to own a chain of chemist shops and I have a fullhouse!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    I have a foreign bank account with a very small amount of money in it... it doesn't pay interest. I mainly use it for buying things that require a US credit card.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @rcs1000
    An American bank account?, I think the problem is accounts in places where your funds are away from the eyes of the tax man.
  • Mr. 1000, do not try and excuse your bourgeois excess, capitalist pigdog! The People's Taxation Committee will judge you harshly!

    Mr. Indigo, Comrade Miliband will not tolerate your crimes against the treasury! Prepare to made an example of, aristocratic enemy of the People!

    Mr. L, that's why the solar death ray is so perfect. It uses natural light and brutally executes people in an environmentally sustainable and clean way.

    Mr. Foxinsox, surrender your ill-gotten gains, thief of the proletariat, and the jackboot of the People's Police Force may give you only a light thrashing, followed by immediate re-education.
  • Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    So Chubby Prescott is back on the gravy train according to EdM he will travel the world to meet with foreign heads of state to ..and get this...Raise their Ambitions re global warming..How effing patronising can the Geek get.

    Its a dog whistle to get Labour voters wavering with the Greens back on board.
    The argument seems to be that Prescott has considerable experience of sorting out international deals on climate thanks to the Kyoto agreement.
    Yes, but given the timing, does Ed currently care about climate deals, or is he trying to get the Green vote back on board for May ?
    Both.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    edited February 2015
    Indigo Indeed, which is why I doubt they will win

    Coolagorna Until economic reality sets in, but in any case it would be more a honeymoon for the SNP, Plaid and Greens than Labour as EdM will be firmly under their thumb
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    FalseFlag said:

    It was Truman who got the US out of the great depression by repealing the many and bizarre statist policies Mussolini admiring FDR introduced that prolonged a banking crisis. Should have learnt from Harding.

    Given the improving economy the Conservatives would easily achieve a majority after having ruled as a minority for a few months.

    Depends who Labour pick as new leader. If the Tories couldn't beat EdM, could they really beat a more popular Labour leader? Cameron won't be a new PM so don't expect a honeymoon period either.
    I don't think Miliband is that bad, not sure who is much better nor who would want the poisoned chalice. Leaders are overestimated in importance, the economy has the decisive impact. Looking at the economic indicators if the election were held at the end of the year the governing party should have a six point lead.

  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited February 2015
    Indigo said:

    Moses_ said:

    The election proper haven't even started yet. Having made two blunders ( as well as calling everything wrong in the last 5 years of course let's not lose sight of that) he could be vulnerable to his own voters.

    Is there such a thing a negative personal vote (the former Member for Tatton accepted). Where the incumbent is so badly thought of by his constituents that its only the colour of his rosette keeping him in a job, and actually an unknown new face in the same coloured rosette would do better
    Doesn't seem like your typical red rosette donkey area however.... Perhaps? It's academic anyway as Balls would have to be moved aside.

    Now if the seat were to be lost at the GE then would that be an opportunity to be rid of Balls all together? Then of course there is Mrs Balls waiting in the wings but whatever is written about her chances they are zero. Labour are far from ready for a female leader as I am sure the Unions have already told them.

    The Unions would go for Burnham or Postie


    ;-)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706



    Mr. L, that's why the solar death ray is so perfect. It uses natural light and brutally executes people in an environmentally sustainable and clean way.

    .

    I regret to say that it is snowing fairly heavily here at the moment so the case for radical cuts in carbon emissions is once again looking a tad unproven.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    So Chubby Prescott is back on the gravy train according to EdM he will travel the world to meet with foreign heads of state to ..and get this...Raise their Ambitions re global warming..How effing patronising can the Geek get.

    Its a dog whistle to get Labour voters wavering with the Greens back on board.
    The argument seems to be that Prescott has considerable experience of sorting out international deals on climate thanks to the Kyoto agreement.
    Yes, but given the timing, does Ed currently care about climate deals, or is he trying to get the Green vote back on board for May ?
    Both.
    He's courting the Green vote with a man called Two Jags ?

    Oh well I wonder how that will work out ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    FalseFlag The Tories would have failed to get a majority because they failed to achieve a surplus, a few months would make little difference

    Fox On the premise that Cameron lost he would be replaced by Boris who is the only Tory more popular than Cameron
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Tom Gordon of the Herald reporting that Labour councillors in East Kilbride are flatly refusing to campaign for the sitting SLAB MP because of his behaviour towards them. Wife of ex SLAB Holyrood minister Andy Kerr quoted and particularly hostile. Good news for the SNP in a key target seat.

    Indeed. Also in the Herald - and relevant for betting - is that Mr Coburn MEP has reportedly backtracked from his promises to stand against Mr Salmond in the Gordon constituency.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/ukip-mep-running-scared-of-election-fight-against-salmond.119023021

    I notice BTW that UKIP are seemingly confusing Westminster with Holyrood matters ...

    Coburn wants to stop the Jacobite rebellion or something.
    Especially odd as Charles Edward Stuart was as much of a Unionist as the Hanoverians - both wanted the throne of the United Kingdom. (Stopping in Derby was a big mistake. Stuart would have done a lot better either to have stopped at Carlisle, declared Scottish independence and torn up the 1706-7 paperwork, or to have pushed on to London.)

  • Mr. L, you fail to understand the difference between weather and climate change.

    Cold weather is due to the Gulf Stream moving south, due to global warming.

    Warm weather is due to the Earth heating up, due to global warming.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    Mr. Roger, nice neutral comparison :p

    I disagree with you on a commanding lead. I cannot see the SNP falling back significantly, which makes things hard for Labour. At the same time, I can't see the Conservatives retaining all their seats and gaining more besides. So, we'll end up with the most horridly hung of Parliaments.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. G, free if you're Scottish. Free if you're French. But not if you're English.

    MD, you think that we should give you it free from our pocket money when you charge us. Be sensible.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Coolagoma

    '"Taking over a recovering economy that had grown for four
    quarters and flatlining it for two years'

    Your having a laugh.

    Based on Brown's pre-election spending blitz with zero cuts, even Michael Foot could have achieved that.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Geoff Siddall ‏@GeoffUkip 1m1 minute ago
    Islamic 'radicals' at the heart of Whitehall | via @Telegraph http://fw.to/e5hADRE
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    weejonnie said:

    Roger said:

    Coolagorna


    That should be Labours next campaign poster


    "Taking over a recovering economy that had grown for four
    quarters and flatlining it for two years

    Introducing a tax on Bedrooms causing suicides whilst cutting
    the rate of tax for the richest people in the country

    NHS in crisis thanks to unwanted and unelected reorganisation
    plans as well as introducing a disastrous phone service staffed
    by non medical people directing everyone who calls to A and E

    Record numbers of benefit sanctions, Record numbers at previously
    unheard of Food Banks..both connected

    Wages behind inflation for over four years

    Planning to help IS into power in Syria as part of "The Rebels'
    only to be stopped by Miliband, Lucas, Galloway, the Nats, Irish
    parties and a few sensible Tory rebels

    Deficit still high despite the years of failed austerity and
    pointless cutting of vital services

    Good public sector ft jobs replaced by zero hours and pt and
    bogus self employment and 2-80 an hour "apprenticeships""


    Thanks...it should indeed but the Blairites in the party would never
    allow it given that they support most of the neo-liberal nonsense
    that led to the above and were amongst the most enthusiastic for
    arming IS to overthrow Assad






    1) The bedroom tax isn't a tax at all. It is the removal of benefits to encourage people to downsize and release larger properties for those families that need them.
    2) It was introduced by Labour
    Labours policy in the private rented sector only applied to future
    claimants not current ones...many sensible Tories oppose
    the Bedroom.Tax (which it is...it will NEVER be the Spare Room
    Subsidy...just as no one refers to the 1990 Community Charge
    Riots bringing down Thatchers reign)

    Glad you agree all the rest are 100% accurate



    Welcome to PB

    You need to vote in the February PB GE15 Competition from 18/2/15

    Currently stands at

    Count 320
    Cons (Avg) 284.67
    Lab (Avg) 280.41
    Lib Dem (Avg) 27.31
    UKIP (Avg) 4.36
    Green (Avg) 1.01
    SNP (Avg) 33.08


    Only a Tory with many mansions could be so pompous on point 1
  • Mr. G, English universities charge everyone. Scottish universities charge only the English, Northern Irish and (perhaps) Welsh.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    HYUFD said:

    FalseFlag The Tories would have failed to get a majority because they failed to achieve a surplus, a few months would make little difference

    Fox On the premise that Cameron lost he would be replaced by Boris who is the only Tory more popular than Cameron

    I disagree a few months with the economy moving in the right direction makes all the difference, surplus matters not, real wage growth is the key. I would expect the same two leaders as well.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    English are Racists for being English ?????? pic.twitter.com/aUZUN0dytn

    — MIKE DAWSON - UKIP (@MICHAEL13056654) February 22, 2015
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    FalseFlag Disagree on both counts. The economy is already growing so a few months will make zero difference, austerity is the key, until a surplus is achieved the Tories will not get a majority as the voters fear a 'slash and burn' approach to public services.

    Either Miliband or Cameron will be dumped if they fail to win most seats
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Tom Gordon of the Herald reporting that Labour councillors in East Kilbride are flatly refusing to campaign for the sitting SLAB MP because of his behaviour towards them. Wife of ex SLAB Holyrood minister Andy Kerr quoted and particularly hostile. Good news for the SNP in a key target seat.

    Indeed. Also in the Herald - and relevant for betting - is that Mr Coburn MEP has reportedly backtracked from his promises to stand against Mr Salmond in the Gordon constituency.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/ukip-mep-running-scared-of-election-fight-against-salmond.119023021

    I notice BTW that UKIP are seemingly confusing Westminster with Holyrood matters ...

    Coburn wants to stop the Jacobite rebellion or something.
    Cockburn is an advert for NEVER EVER considering voting UKIP, a bigger nuttier windbag could not be found.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    Mr. G, English universities charge everyone. Scottish universities charge only the English, Northern Irish and (perhaps) Welsh.

    Correction MD, they charge the ones that charge Scottish students. Very fair.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @rottenborough

    'The argument seems to be that Prescott has considerable experience of sorting out international deals on climate thanks to the Kyoto agreement.'

    I thought he was chosen to make a guest appearance in Hattie's pink bus and shore up Labour's female vote?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, English universities charge everyone. Scottish universities charge only the English, Northern Irish and (perhaps) Welsh.

    Correction MD, they charge the ones that charge Scottish students. Very fair.
    I wasn't aware that Scottish students go into French or German Universities for free.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708
    HYUFD/False Flag - one of the most quoted polling stats is that governing parties NEVER improve their vote share at an election. Cameron got 37% in 2010. After 5 years of public austerity, falling living standards, large scale immigration in spite of what they promised and the government totally failing on its central objective - balancing the books - I'd be amazed if they got above 35%. Indeed I'd have a new found respect for Cameron and Osborne as politicians, if not as men, if they managed it.
  • Mr. G, 18 year old Englishmen didn't choose for tuition fees to come about. Neither did 18 year old Frenchmen, who are not charged.

    It's an indefensible approach, indicative of the currently unsustainable situation we have due to Labour's narrow-minded efforts to gerrymander itself a perpetual fiefdom.

    Just one more thing that makes the next election so intriguing.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    DavidL said:



    Mr. L, that's why the solar death ray is so perfect. It uses natural light and brutally executes people in an environmentally sustainable and clean way.

    .

    I regret to say that it is snowing fairly heavily here at the moment so the case for radical cuts in carbon emissions is once again looking a tad unproven.

    You are obviously unaware that 2014 was the warmest year ever recorded globally and that January 2015 was the second warmest January ever recorded.

    There is no doubt that the globe is anomously warm - the question is how much of the recent upward spike is due to man's activities. Consensus suggests that man is having a significant impact here.

    Climate change is one of biggest challenges facing mankind - bury your heads in the sand if you wish but the facts speak for themselves...

  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    edited February 2015
    MikeK said:

    English are Racists for being English ?????? pic.twitter.com/aUZUN0dytn

    — MIKE DAWSON - UKIP (@MICHAEL13056654) February 22, 2015

    Yes, there is a definite whiff of anti english racism in many so called anti-racist equality fanatics and organisations, just as there is misandry rife in many feminists and their leagues.

    The claim to want equality, what they actually want is to be the one doing the metaphorical kicking.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Indigo said:

    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, English universities charge everyone. Scottish universities charge only the English, Northern Irish and (perhaps) Welsh.

    Correction MD, they charge the ones that charge Scottish students. Very fair.
    I wasn't aware that Scottish students go into French or German Universities for free.
    I have no idea but if not then I presume they will be charged similar to what they charge Scottish students.
  • murali_s said:

    DavidL said:



    Mr. L, that's why the solar death ray is so perfect. It uses natural light and brutally executes people in an environmentally sustainable and clean way.

    .

    I regret to say that it is snowing fairly heavily here at the moment so the case for radical cuts in carbon emissions is once again looking a tad unproven.

    You are obviously unaware that 2014 was the warmest year ever recorded globally and that January 2015 was the second warmest January ever recorded.

    There is no doubt that the globe is anomously warm - the question is how much of the recent upward spike is due to man's activities. Consensus suggests that man is having a significant impact here.

    Climate change is one of biggest challenges facing mankind - bury your heads in the sand if you wish but the facts speak for themselves...

    Not this canard again.

    You are aware the figures have been tampered with on an industrial scale?

    The fiddling with temperature data is the biggest science scandal ever
    New data shows that the “vanishing” of polar ice is not the result of runaway global warming"

    "Two weeks ago, under the headline “How we are being tricked by flawed data on global warming”, I wrote about Paul Homewood, who, on his Notalotofpeopleknowthat blog, had checked the published temperature graphs for three weather stations in Paraguay against the temperatures that had originally been recorded. In each instance, the actual trend of 60 years of data had been dramatically reversed, so that a cooling trend was changed to one that showed a marked warming......"

    Following my last article, Homewood checked a swathe of other South American weather stations around the original three. In each case he found the same suspicious one-way “adjustments”. First these were made by the US government’s Global Historical Climate Network (GHCN). They were then amplified by two of the main official surface records, the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (Giss) and the National Climate Data Center (NCDC), which use the warming trends to estimate temperatures across the vast regions of the Earth where no measurements are taken. Yet these are the very records on which scientists and politicians rely for their belief in “global warming”.




    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516/The-fiddling-with-temperature-data-is-the-biggest-science-scandal-ever.html

  • F1: Alonso in hospital after a crash on circuit. He's reported to be ok and conscious, could just be a minor issue/precaution.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    Mr. G, 18 year old Englishmen didn't choose for tuition fees to come about. Neither did 18 year old Frenchmen, who are not charged.

    It's an indefensible approach, indicative of the currently unsustainable situation we have due to Labour's narrow-minded efforts to gerrymander itself a perpetual fiefdom.

    Just one more thing that makes the next election so intriguing.

    MD , I do agree but it is a Westminster issue , not an SNP issue. The English student can choose to reside in Scotland and get it free, the Scottish student cannot.
  • HYUFD/False Flag - one of the most quoted polling stats is that governing parties NEVER improve their vote share at an election. Cameron got 37% in 2010. After 5 years of public austerity, falling living standards, large scale immigration in spite of what they promised and the government totally failing on its central objective - balancing the books - I'd be amazed if they got above 35%. Indeed I'd have a new found respect for Cameron and Osborne as politicians, if not as men, if they managed it.

    OTOH there are two parties in government this time. From international examples it doesn't sound improbable for the bigger party to improve its share at the expense of the smaller one.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    Con lead with Opinium last night I see...

    Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

    As far as The Ed's falling out - Spanners!
  • malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, 18 year old Englishmen didn't choose for tuition fees to come about. Neither did 18 year old Frenchmen, who are not charged.

    It's an indefensible approach, indicative of the currently unsustainable situation we have due to Labour's narrow-minded efforts to gerrymander itself a perpetual fiefdom.

    Just one more thing that makes the next election so intriguing.

    MD , I do agree but it is a Westminster issue , not an SNP issue. The English student can choose to reside in Scotland and get it free, the Scottish student cannot.
    Can my kids still get free tuition in Scottish University if I get my kids Republic of Ireland passports (which as they have a grandparent born in Northern Ireland, I can)?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708

    HYUFD/False Flag - one of the most quoted polling stats is that governing parties NEVER improve their vote share at an election. Cameron got 37% in 2010. After 5 years of public austerity, falling living standards, large scale immigration in spite of what they promised and the government totally failing on its central objective - balancing the books - I'd be amazed if they got above 35%. Indeed I'd have a new found respect for Cameron and Osborne as politicians, if not as men, if they managed it.

    OTOH there are two parties in government this time. From international examples it doesn't sound improbable for the bigger party to improve its share at the expense of the smaller one.
    You may have a point there although I think it does speak of Clegg's contemptible failure. Who on earth wanted to vote for the soft left Lib Dems in 2010 rather than Cameron's soft Tories and has now switched to a Tory party flirting with Ukip?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, 18 year old Englishmen didn't choose for tuition fees to come about. Neither did 18 year old Frenchmen, who are not charged.

    It's an indefensible approach, indicative of the currently unsustainable situation we have due to Labour's narrow-minded efforts to gerrymander itself a perpetual fiefdom.

    Just one more thing that makes the next election so intriguing.

    MD , I do agree but it is a Westminster issue , not an SNP issue. The English student can choose to reside in Scotland and get it free, the Scottish student cannot.
    Can my kids still get free tuition in Scottish University if I get my kids Republic of Ireland passports (which as they have a grandparent born in Northern Ireland, I can)?
    Paul, I am not sure but certainly worth looking into.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    edited February 2015
    FrankBooth Mainly the case, though Eden increased the Tory voteshare in 1955 and Wilson the Labour voteshare in 1966 and October 1974. 35% is the voteshare I would expect Cameron to get

    EdinTokyo If Germany in 2013 is an example there was just a switch from liberal to conservative, but that still produced a coalition and indeed Cameron also has seen a switch from conservative to more conservative, something only just beginning to occur in Germany
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    It has been a while and he has had lots of time to think about it so what will EdM go with at the next PMQ,s

    Hopefully tax avoidance, it worked so well last time.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    @Paul

    Hmmm, you invoke Christopher Booker in your defence. That the best you can do my friend? He keeps very good company...

    http://www.campaigncc.org/climate_change/sceptics/hall_of_shame

    Yes, there will always be conspiracy theorists who claim this this to be the largest Governmental fraud ever - goes with the territory I guess. The good news is that the flat-earthers have been ridiculed but the World needs to wake up and take action NOW.

    When will you and your fellow right-wing nut-jobs wake up and not fall for the likes of loons like Christopher Booker.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Murali The world needs to take action now...I will burn one less log on the fire tonight..what are you gonna do..
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @richardDodd
    Burning one less log is theoretically carbon neutral, but in practice it helps.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    murali_s said:

    @Paul

    Hmmm, you invoke Christopher Booker in your defence. That the best you can do my friend? He keeps very good company...

    http://www.campaigncc.org/climate_change/sceptics/hall_of_shame

    Yes, there will always be conspiracy theorists who claim this this to be the largest Governmental fraud ever - goes with the territory I guess. The good news is that the flat-earthers have been ridiculed but the World needs to wake up and take action NOW.

    When will you and your fellow right-wing nut-jobs wake up and not fall for the likes of loons like Christopher Booker.

    Ignoring the points raised and referring to people as right-wing nut jobs and flat-earthers may not be the best way of winning over those who are sceptical.

    Claims that the consensus proves anything is also unlikely to work. There have been many instances when the consensus of the wise-men has proved to be totally wrong.
  • murali_s said:

    @Paul
    Yes, there will always be conspiracy theorists who claim this this to be the largest Governmental fraud ever - goes with the territory I guess. The good news is that the flat-earthers have been ridiculed but the World needs to wake up and take action NOW.
    When will you and your fellow right-wing nut-jobs wake up and not fall for the likes of loons like Christopher Booker.

    The thing is I wake up to frost covered view in southern england. 12 years ago when I moved back to the UK I was promised a mediterranean climate here and no more snow.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    murali_s said:

    DavidL said:



    Mr. L, that's why the solar death ray is so perfect. It uses natural light and brutally executes people in an environmentally sustainable and clean way.

    .

    I regret to say that it is snowing fairly heavily here at the moment so the case for radical cuts in carbon emissions is once again looking a tad unproven.

    There is no doubt that the globe is anomously warm - the question is how much of the recent upward spike is due to man's activities. Consensus suggests that man is having a significant impact here.

    Climate change is one of biggest challenges facing mankind - bury your heads in the sand if you wish but the facts speak for themselves...

    Why appeal to consensus? Obviously diggin' up dem fossil fuels and releasing the lovely energy out of them is going to warm things up; it can't not, unless you suspend the law of the conservation of energy. It is the most hilarious indictment of the we-know-Ther-Science warmist dweebs that they never make this most obvious knockdown point in their own favour.

    The question actually is about what happens next, and what the dweebs need to explain is why the future of the climate is predictable from the past when this is not true of any other complex chaotic system ever studied. I gather from your final paragraph that, in essence, You Seen a Bad Moon Risin'. Fair enough, but that is a personal revelation rather than a scientific proposition. I am sure a lot of modelling has gone on, but then again a lot of modelling of the stock market goes on.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, 18 year old Englishmen didn't choose for tuition fees to come about. Neither did 18 year old Frenchmen, who are not charged.

    It's an indefensible approach, indicative of the currently unsustainable situation we have due to Labour's narrow-minded efforts to gerrymander itself a perpetual fiefdom.

    Just one more thing that makes the next election so intriguing.

    MD , I do agree but it is a Westminster issue , not an SNP issue. The English student can choose to reside in Scotland and get it free, the Scottish student cannot.
    Can my kids still get free tuition in Scottish University if I get my kids Republic of Ireland passports (which as they have a grandparent born in Northern Ireland, I can)?
    Paul, I am not sure but certainly worth looking into.
    Paul, having looked at some university sites, it looks like all EU students , except England, Wales and Northern Ireland get fees paid. You would obviously need to read small print.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Smarmeron...Murali keeps calling for urgent action but never defines it..what w ill he do..and he needs to be quick about it..apparently.. Polar Bears are dying in their thousands and the Maldives are about to sink.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    murali_s said:

    @Paul

    Hmmm, you invoke Christopher Booker in your defence. That the best you can do my friend? He keeps very good company...

    http://www.campaigncc.org/climate_change/sceptics/hall_of_shame

    Yes, there will always be conspiracy theorists who claim this this to be the largest Governmental fraud ever - goes with the territory I guess. The good news is that the flat-earthers have been ridiculed but the World needs to wake up and take action NOW.

    When will you and your fellow right-wing nut-jobs wake up and not fall for the likes of loons like Christopher Booker.

    Ignoring the points raised and referring to people as right-wing nut jobs and flat-earthers may not be the best way of winning over those who are sceptical.

    Claims that the consensus proves anything is also unlikely to work. There have been many instances when the consensus of the wise-men has proved to be totally wrong.
    I think he was 'trolling'. Though most enthusiastic proponents of the prevailing wisdom really do respond in such moronic terms and really do expect it to carry the day.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Claims that the consensus proves anything is also unlikely to work. There have been many instances when the consensus of the wise-men has proved to be totally wrong.

    When there are views held by the consensus and subsequently found to be totally wrong, it appears that some people don't want to hear.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/11419428/Watch-Saudi-cleric-tells-students-Earth-does-not-rotate.html
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Ishmael_X
    Pumping extra greenhouse gas into the atmosphere will cause a result of one form or another.
    You are arguing about how much change it is making, not that it has no effect?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, 18 year old Englishmen didn't choose for tuition fees to come about. Neither did 18 year old Frenchmen, who are not charged.

    It's an indefensible approach, indicative of the currently unsustainable situation we have due to Labour's narrow-minded efforts to gerrymander itself a perpetual fiefdom.

    Just one more thing that makes the next election so intriguing.

    MD , I do agree but it is a Westminster issue , not an SNP issue. The English student can choose to reside in Scotland and get it free, the Scottish student cannot.
    Can my kids still get free tuition in Scottish University if I get my kids Republic of Ireland passports (which as they have a grandparent born in Northern Ireland, I can)?
    Paul, I am not sure but certainly worth looking into.
    Paul, having looked at some university sites, it looks like all EU students , except England, Wales and Northern Ireland get fees paid. You would obviously need to read small print.
    This was my point earlier, most of the EU institutions would charge Scottish students in excess of a thousand Euros per year, some considerably so.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Smarmeron said:

    @richardDodd
    Burning one less log is theoretically carbon neutral, but in practice it helps.

    Astonishing.

    There is carbon sequestered in the log, and it remains sequestered for as long as RD prevents it from burning or otherwise oxidising. You really don't understand the most basic of basics here, do you? - or if you do, please explain "theoretically carbon neutral". Quickly.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Smarmeron said:

    @Ishmael_X
    Pumping extra greenhouse gas into the atmosphere will cause a result of one form or another.
    You are arguing about how much change it is making, not that it has no effect?

    If that effect is tiny, or at any rate insignificant compared to natural phenomena, there is a debate to be had as to whether the amount of money being spend on ineffectual rubbish like the Climate Change Act is really worth the damage to the economy, especially since all it is doing is off-shoring the pollution AND damaging our economy. There is also logically a debate as to whether spending trillions of pounds to make almost no difference to the temperature change even using optimistic models is a good use of resources or if mitigating the effects of that change would be rather more sensible.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Hello everyone.

    I am going to indulge in some SeanT-style boasting and say that a few days I did wonder on this very blog whether EdM might not get rid of Balls.

    If only I had the same luck with the horses........ (sigh!)
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Ishmael_X
    In theory, the log you are burning, is being mitigated by the growing of still live trees,
    Do you need something simpler, perhaps some nice pictures?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    murali_s said:

    DavidL said:



    Mr. L, that's why the solar death ray is so perfect. It uses natural light and brutally executes people in an environmentally sustainable and clean way.

    .

    I regret to say that it is snowing fairly heavily here at the moment so the case for radical cuts in carbon emissions is once again looking a tad unproven.

    You are obviously unaware that 2014 was the warmest year ever recorded globally and that January 2015 was the second warmest January ever recorded.

    There is no doubt that the globe is anomously warm - the question is how much of the recent upward spike is due to man's activities. Consensus suggests that man is having a significant impact here.

    Climate change is one of biggest challenges facing mankind - bury your heads in the sand if you wish but the facts speak for themselves...

    Next time you are advertising for a date please don't claim to have a GSOH. It would be unfair.
This discussion has been closed.