Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just one poll in past 17 has CON lead yet Tories winning mo

SystemSystem Posts: 11,685
edited February 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just one poll in past 17 has CON lead yet Tories winning most seats becomes an even tighter favourite on Betfair

CON to win most seats moves to an even stronger favourite on Betfair. Now a 62% chance pic.twitter.com/Qj3KJgc8ue

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited February 2015
    First: Mike, money talks ! An excited idiot is still an idiot. Remember the spread just before GE2010. Labour 211- 215 !
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249
    It is odd. Perhaps punters feel if Labour hasn't picked up after the last fortnight it never will and will just keep sinking in terms of support? It's reasonable if not perhaps probable.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,787
    FPT
    surbiton said:

    I think we may see tactical voting on the right:
    Many who would love to vote UKIP but as GE2015 is so close and they don't want Labour or more so Miliband will vote Con to play safe.

    Secondly I can see two forms of TV in Scotland:
    The obvious one of backing unionist candidate against SNP or Green and
    The truly tactical one of centre right voters delighted for once they may not have to suffer a Labour MP, voting SNP to keep out Labour knowing full well independence has gone for 10 years anyway.

    If SNP wins 40+ seats and holds the balance of power, "independence has gone for 10 years anyway" ?
    Strictly speaking, it's not whether the SNP win but what the Scottish public want - the SNP are not stupid and will not rerun indyref if there is no good chance of winning. We're voting for Westminster MPs not indyref 2 this May, anyway. It's the Unionist parties who keep mixing the two up, for their own nefarious purposes.

    But - 1. the more the Coalition and Labour try to do down Scottish MPs, denounce their involvement in government, etc. etc., the more the UK is destroyed from within by its own proponents

    And 2. Remember the Survation polling this week: a clear majority of 59% want independence within (not at) 10 years (data on scotgoespop for those who want to check it).
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Lots of YG/Populist, etc all online, - maybe punters have a healthy scepticism. Quality always beats quantity.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Laying Conservatives at 1.64 seems reasonable enough.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015
    felix said:

    Lots of YG/Populist, etc all online, - maybe punters have a healthy scepticism. Quality always beats quantity.

    ICM poll only had Labour 4% behind in England.

    Scottish subsamples with IPSOS and ICM both have been utterly atrocious for Labour.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited February 2015
    Nobody wants to lay a Tory?

    Someone gave me a badge last week 'I've never kissed a Tory'
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    I'm currently:

    Lab Votes, Lab Seats Lab Votes, Con Seats Con Votes, Lab seats Con Seats, Con votes
    60.59 346.28 214.87 65.61

    17 bets at 8 bookies.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    1.64 is too short though
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,997
    Roger said:

    Nobody wants to lay a Tory?

    Major & Edwina?

    Sorry, too obvious.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,462
    FPT - a very important question:

    Seriously, UKIP don't trust the BBC, so where do you get your trusted information from, Radio Moscow?

    I'm not speaking for UKIP, but speaking for myself, I don't 'trust' any media organisation. None. Not the BBC, not the DM, not the DT, not RT, not citizen journalist sites like NSNBC, not batshit crazy conspiracy sites like Infowars. To do so would be idiotic -probably always has been. What I do do, is recognise that like a diet, where sticking to one food group is likely to lead to malnutrition, sticking to one news source (or even a stable of sources that pushes the same accepted 'truths' - an ever-growing shopping list of views everyone must hold or be outside civilised society) is likely to lead to a set of lazy assumptions that prevent an accurate reading of events.
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Roger..the curse of the new thread.. To me it was the most entertaining and that's really what the punter pays for,,I thought Birdman was terrific.particularly the camerawork.which set a new benchmark..Boyhood got to be tedious..enjoyed The Judge.. which is not being mentioned..and now back to the thread.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    FPT:
    nu123 said:

    There are almost no seats where Con, Lab and LD all have an obvious chance - Cambridge and, er...?"

    Who will win in Ealing Central?

    The A&E closures is a big issue in the whole of North West/West London.

    Warrington South (19641/18088/15094)
    Plymouth Sutton & Devonport(15,050/13,901/10,829)
    Newport East(7,918/12,744/11,094)
    Ealing Central & Acton(17,944/14,228/13,041)
    Bridgend (11,668/13,931/8,658)
    Bradford East (10,860/13,272/13,637)

    All look interesting from the point of view of where a LD collapse might go.
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited February 2015
    Roger... Nobody wants to lay a Tory... got some news for you..
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I'm still thinking Tory most seats for now, but every week where there's no movement in the polls is essentially a small win for Labour at this point in the election cycle. The Tories really need to get some momentum (either momentum for themselves for the first time in 3 years, or a resumption in the slide from Labour to the small parties) soon.
  • Options
    Kate Osamor has won Labour selection in Edmonton

    http://kateosamor.co.uk/
  • Options
    Bliptastic
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Pulpstar said:

    erm... there's been a big move this morning in Betfair's most seats, Tories in sharply and Labour out big time...

    anyone know why?

    Don't tell OGH.....

    I just noticed that too. Poll out there somewhere?

    Otoh, none of the related markets - NOM, Next PM, Spreads etc - have moved in sync.

    Odd.
    Scottish polling would be logical for that.
    That was my first thought, although most punters will have factored in by now good results for the SNP.
    The markets seem to be priced at 35 seats for the SNP. That is a *lot* of potential room if there is stronger indication that the SNP will be on a higher number, potentially 20 higher.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Danny565 said:

    I'm still thinking Tory most seats for now, but every week where there's no movement in the polls is essentially a small win for Labour at this point in the election cycle. The Tories really need to get some momentum (either momentum for themselves for the first time in 3 years, or a resumption in the slide from Labour to the small parties) soon.

    I do have some modest stakes on a Lab majority, though think a Lab minority more likely.

    But there are a lot of undecideds in the polls, and I cannot see them going heavily for Ed and Ed. I think we are still in the phoney war.

    BTW has Balls promised to remit some of existing student debt, or does his fee cut only apply to new students. Foxinsoxuk jr will be very annoyed if he has to pay but new students do not, and he is in a marginal...
  • Options
    Every Election comes down to the same basics - Economic competence & Leadership & Labour do terribly on both, not quite as badly as 1983 but close. The reason the Polls are stable is because the voters arent thinking about it seriously yet, it may be April before they do. The introduction of a fixed date for the Election means all the movement will come in a mad rush at the last minute - expect 5 weeks of complete hysteria.
  • Options
    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    erm... there's been a big move this morning in Betfair's most seats, Tories in sharply and Labour out big time...

    anyone know why?

    Don't tell OGH.....

    I just noticed that too. Poll out there somewhere?

    Otoh, none of the related markets - NOM, Next PM, Spreads etc - have moved in sync.

    Odd.
    Scottish polling would be logical for that.
    That was my first thought, although most punters will have factored in by now good results for the SNP.
    The markets seem to be priced at 35 seats for the SNP. That is a *lot* of potential room if there is stronger indication that the SNP will be on a higher number, potentially 20 higher.
    Fantasy stuff. Panelbase & TNS, both pollsters with long experience of Scotland, have SNP lead at 10%.

  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    I'm not speaking for UKIP, but speaking for myself, I don't 'trust' any media organisation. None. Not the BBC, not the DM, not the DT, not RT, not citizen journalist sites like NSNBC, not batshit crazy conspiracy sites like Infowars.

    NSNBC is a batshit crazy conspiracy site...

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nsnbc.me
    nsnbc.me, or nsnbc ìnternational, is a lowercase alternative news site created in 2013 by a Danish man named Christoff Lehmann as a replacement for his blog.[1] The website is one of the more professional-looking crank sites. However, under the shiny exterior, the website supports a wide range of conspiracy theories and woo.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Roger said:

    Nobody wants to lay a Tory?

    Someone gave me a badge last week 'I've never kissed a Tory'

    I'm not sure the whole demonizing of people for expressing a political view is very healthy. Try substituting 'black, Jew, etc' and you might get it.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    erm... there's been a big move this morning in Betfair's most seats, Tories in sharply and Labour out big time...

    anyone know why?

    Don't tell OGH.....

    I just noticed that too. Poll out there somewhere?

    Otoh, none of the related markets - NOM, Next PM, Spreads etc - have moved in sync.

    Odd.
    Scottish polling would be logical for that.
    That was my first thought, although most punters will have factored in by now good results for the SNP.
    The markets seem to be priced at 35 seats for the SNP. That is a *lot* of potential room if there is stronger indication that the SNP will be on a higher number, potentially 20 higher.
    Fantasy stuff. Panelbase & TNS, both pollsters with long experience of Scotland, have SNP lead at 10%.

    And other pollsters give a bigger lead for SNP. Similarly many regard ICM as a pretty good pollster.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    expect 5 weeks of complete hysteria.

    That's how it always used to be.

    What the FTPA has mostly done is given the media a time frame to plan their coverage (and arguably schedule their leaks and hatch jobs). I think in their excitement a lot of newspapers and broadcasters have shot their load before the public have even got interested.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @felix
    There wasn't enough room on the badge for money obsessed petty socio-path.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,997
    felix said:

    Roger said:

    Nobody wants to lay a Tory?

    Someone gave me a badge last week 'I've never kissed a Tory'

    I'm not sure the whole demonizing of people for expressing a political view is very healthy. Try substituting 'black, Jew, etc' and you might get it.
    Back in the day, there were often a lot of reasons for attending Young Conservative events. I didn't, but I know plenty who did. Labour League of Youth, round our way least, didn't come close, and the Young Liberals hadn't been invented.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    erm... there's been a big move this morning in Betfair's most seats, Tories in sharply and Labour out big time...

    anyone know why?

    Don't tell OGH.....

    I just noticed that too. Poll out there somewhere?

    Otoh, none of the related markets - NOM, Next PM, Spreads etc - have moved in sync.

    Odd.
    Scottish polling would be logical for that.
    That was my first thought, although most punters will have factored in by now good results for the SNP.
    The markets seem to be priced at 35 seats for the SNP. That is a *lot* of potential room if there is stronger indication that the SNP will be on a higher number, potentially 20 higher.
    Fantasy stuff. Panelbase & TNS, both pollsters with long experience of Scotland, have SNP lead at 10%.

    So YouGov, Ipsos MORI, Survation and ICM should be ignored in favour of a Panelbase poll with a Leading Question and the only TNS poll of Scottish VI since the 2010 election?

    In any case, I was merely speculating as to why there would be a large movement in Con most seats while the rest of the market is static.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Punters probably think that the Conservatives will squeeze the very large UKIP vote as the election draws close.

    Telephone polls show a lower UKIP score than online, and a stronger Conservative performance relative to Labour. And, ICM probably carries a lot of weight among punters.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    http://may2015.com/category/seat-calculator/ are on the "now"cast moreso than a forecast.

    Con 266
    Lab 275
    SNP 56
    Lib Dem 26

    http://electionsetc.com/ assumes some swingback I'm guessing and is

    Con 281
    Lab 282
    SNP 40
    Lib Dem 23

    http://electionsetc.com/

    Con 282
    Lab 280
    SNP 40
    LD 25



  • Options
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    erm... there's been a big move this morning in Betfair's most seats, Tories in sharply and Labour out big time...

    anyone know why?

    Don't tell OGH.....

    I just noticed that too. Poll out there somewhere?

    Otoh, none of the related markets - NOM, Next PM, Spreads etc - have moved in sync.

    Odd.
    Scottish polling would be logical for that.
    That was my first thought, although most punters will have factored in by now good results for the SNP.
    The markets seem to be priced at 35 seats for the SNP. That is a *lot* of potential room if there is stronger indication that the SNP will be on a higher number, potentially 20 higher.
    Fantasy stuff. Panelbase & TNS, both pollsters with long experience of Scotland, have SNP lead at 10%.

    So YouGov, Ipsos MORI, Survation and ICM should be ignored in favour of a Panelbase poll with a Leading Question and the only TNS poll of Scottish VI since the 2010 election?

    In any case, I was merely speculating as to why there would be a large movement in Con most seats while the rest of the market is static.
    You are the one who is ignoring polls that you don't like. I was just redressing the balance.

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Smarmeron said:

    @felix
    There wasn't enough room on the badge for money obsessed petty socio-path.

    Don't give up the day job - assuming you have one.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @felix
    I am a humour transplant specialist, but even with modern science some people are beyond help.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    erm... there's been a big move this morning in Betfair's most seats, Tories in sharply and Labour out big time...

    anyone know why?

    Don't tell OGH.....

    I just noticed that too. Poll out there somewhere?

    Otoh, none of the related markets - NOM, Next PM, Spreads etc - have moved in sync.

    Odd.
    Scottish polling would be logical for that.
    That was my first thought, although most punters will have factored in by now good results for the SNP.
    The markets seem to be priced at 35 seats for the SNP. That is a *lot* of potential room if there is stronger indication that the SNP will be on a higher number, potentially 20 higher.
    Fantasy stuff. Panelbase & TNS, both pollsters with long experience of Scotland, have SNP lead at 10%.

    So YouGov, Ipsos MORI, Survation and ICM should be ignored in favour of a Panelbase poll with a Leading Question and the only TNS poll of Scottish VI since the 2010 election?

    In any case, I was merely speculating as to why there would be a large movement in Con most seats while the rest of the market is static.
    You are the one who is ignoring polls that you don't like. I was just redressing the balance.

    The only one I'm consciously excluding is the Panelbase leading question one. TNS may be right, they're weighting by 2010 which is of dubious provenance but on it's own doesn't mean it should be excluded.

    Polls since the Referendum give the SNP lead trail as : -

    2%, 29%, 16%, 17%, 22%, 20%, 24%, 17%, 10%, 20%, 28%, 10%, 21%, 17%.

    Most of those predict well over 35 seats, all I am saying is there is room for the market to adjust the SNP upwards.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Market back to 1.67/1.68
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    erm... there's been a big move this morning in Betfair's most seats, Tories in sharply and Labour out big time...

    anyone know why?

    Don't tell OGH.....

    I just noticed that too. Poll out there somewhere?

    Otoh, none of the related markets - NOM, Next PM, Spreads etc - have moved in sync.

    Odd.
    Scottish polling would be logical for that.
    That was my first thought, although most punters will have factored in by now good results for the SNP.
    The markets seem to be priced at 35 seats for the SNP. That is a *lot* of potential room if there is stronger indication that the SNP will be on a higher number, potentially 20 higher.
    Fantasy stuff. Panelbase & TNS, both pollsters with long experience of Scotland, have SNP lead at 10%.

    So YouGov, Ipsos MORI, Survation and ICM should be ignored in favour of a Panelbase poll with a Leading Question and the only TNS poll of Scottish VI since the 2010 election?

    In any case, I was merely speculating as to why there would be a large movement in Con most seats while the rest of the market is static.
    You are the one who is ignoring polls that you don't like. I was just redressing the balance.

    The only one I'm consciously excluding is the Panelbase leading question one. TNS may be right, they're weighting by 2010 which is of dubious provenance but on it's own doesn't mean it should be excluded.

    Polls since the Referendum give the SNP lead trail as : -

    2%, 29%, 16%, 17%, 22%, 20%, 24%, 17%, 10%, 20%, 28%, 10%, 21%, 17%.

    Most of those predict well over 35 seats, all I am saying is there is room for the market to adjust the SNP upwards.
    The ashcroft polls sort of predict an overall swing of ~ 20% too, which would equate to a lead of 18% I think. And the swing is being got where it's needed most.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Didn't TNS also have a 9% Labour lead in UK as a whole recently ?

    Or was that panelbase :)
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Smarmeron said:

    @felix
    I am a humour transplant specialist, but even with modern science some people are beyond help.

    When it comes to you and Ken Dodd I'm certainly beyond help.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited February 2015
    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't TNS also have a 9% Labour lead in UK as a whole recently ?

    Or was that panelbase :)

    TNS had a 7% Labour lead polled 12th to 16th Feb.

    The wiki polling collation is very handy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    One for PBers


    To summarise

    If your index finger is longer than your ring finger, there is a higher than average chance you will be grumpy, gay, poor and/or ugly, with a short penis. But, on the bright side, you will have a much lower than average chance of developing prostate cancer.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/11424695/Polite-promiscuous...-gay-What-does-your-ring-finger-say-about-you.html
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited February 2015
    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015
    Jesus H I can't believe what price I just got matched on Betfair.

    THE AVERAGE BETFAIR PUNTER IS CLUELESS.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Conservative chances basically come down to Ed continuing to demotivate Labour voters and a last minutre swing from some kippers. The Tories have been stuck in the low thirties from 2012 and have nothing really to offer.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Conservative chances basically come down to Ed continuing to demotivate Labour voters and a last minutre swing from some kippers. The Tories have been stuck in the low thirties from 2012 and have nothing really to offer.
    The TV/newspapers seem to be pushing 'hung parliament' as the expected election outcome. If that continues I think the hopes of Labour/Conservatives squeezing minor parties support declines to zero.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Conservative chances basically come down to Ed continuing to demotivate Labour voters and a last minutre swing from some kippers. The Tories have been stuck in the low thirties from 2012 and have nothing really to offer.
    The TV/newspapers seem to be pushing 'hung parliament' as the expected election outcome. If that continues I think the hopes of Labour/Conservatives squeezing minor parties support declines to zero.
    I don't think it's just the media, most of PB has been on NOM for the last 2 years.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2015
    felix said:

    Lots of YG/Populist, etc all online, - maybe punters have a healthy scepticism. Quality always beats quantity.

    Indeed.

    The Case For the Tories

    ICM phone - 4 point Tory lead
    Comres phone - 1 point Tory lead
    Ashcroft phone - Tories level or leading by up to 6 in all polls bar one in 2015
    Ipsos phone - leading on all VI in three of the last four, and level on 8/10 and 9/10 in the latest
    Survation online - one point lead

    The Case for Labour

    Populus online - continual leads, though now at lowest VI level since 5/5/10
    Yougov online - regular leads
    Comres online - 2 point lead
    Opinium online - 2 point lead
    TNS - bears no resemblance to any others

    Viewed as pollsters, rather than volume of polls, it's splitting fairly evenly.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Jesus H I can't believe what price I just got matched on Betfair.

    THE AVERAGE BETFAIR PUNTER IS CLUELESS.


    You fancy a bet on the nags today?

    It's a busy day for me, but I'd say the pick of my selections is Handsupfordetroit in the 4.10 at Chepstow. Some 7/1 around - not quite Sunny Jim territory, but not bad.
  • Options

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Conservative chances basically come down to Ed continuing to demotivate Labour voters and a last minutre swing from some kippers. The Tories have been stuck in the low thirties from 2012 and have nothing really to offer.
    The TV/newspapers seem to be pushing 'hung parliament' as the expected election outcome. If that continues I think the hopes of Labour/Conservatives squeezing minor parties support declines to zero.
    The LibDems should start running on "the only way to vote for a stable government".
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    Jesus H I can't believe what price I just got matched on Betfair.

    THE AVERAGE BETFAIR PUNTER IS CLUELESS.


    You fancy a bet on the nags today?

    It's a busy day for me, but I'd say the pick of my selections is Handsupfordetroit in the 4.10 at Chepstow. Some 7/1 around - not quite Sunny Jim territory, but not bad.
    Going light on other betting till after the GE tbh :)

    Check your inbox to see what I got matched.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Alanbrooke

    "If your index finger is longer than your ring finger, there is a higher than average chance you will be grumpy, gay, poor and/or ugly, with a short penis. But, on the bright side, you will have a much lower than average chance of developing prostate cancer. "

    They're trying to get their own back on Oborne with some solid research

  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited February 2015

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Conservative chances basically come down to Ed continuing to demotivate Labour voters and a last minutre swing from some kippers. The Tories have been stuck in the low thirties from 2012 and have nothing really to offer.
    The TV/newspapers seem to be pushing 'hung parliament' as the expected election outcome. If that continues I think the hopes of Labour/Conservatives squeezing minor parties support declines to zero.
    I don't think it's just the media, most of PB has been on NOM for the last 2 years.
    I'm not saying they're pushing lies. The point is multiple media sources, with large audiences, are predicting a hung parliament.

    If voters don't consider Con/Lab majority likely, their opponents can't peddle bogeyman scenarios to move voters from UKIP/Green etc.
  • Options
    On topic, there's no good reason for one market to move independently of the others and even if it did, to give the Tories five chances in eight of being the largest part is probably too many. However, those who think it will happen could point to:

    - Ed Miliband being poorly regarded both in general and by current Labour voters.
    - Potential swingback from UKIP to Con.
    - Potential swingback from Lab to LD (or secondary swing from ex-LDs to Green or elsewhere via Labour).
    - Incumbency benefits both at national and local levels (though the polling suggests this is minor for the Tories).
    - Con gains from the Lib Dems (probably not many but every one raises Labour's bar).
    - SNP gains from Labour, increasing further the number of seats to be gained as an offset.
    - The economy undermining virtually every one of Labour's critiques.
    - Ed Balls.
    - Labour's own vulnerability on the NHS (Stafford, Wales etc), which may derail that attack line.
    - The international situation increasing the risk of the untried and untested.
    - The relatively narrow polls at the moment and Labour's southwards trajectory of the last three years.

    Now, there are arguments to be put the other way and as I say, I think the market's moved too far here, but each of the above makes it harder for Labour to achieve their aim.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited February 2015
    Chestnut

    Even The Telegraph would blush at that interpretation of the facts

    Case for the Tories

    ICM phone - 4 point Tory lead
    Comres phone - 1 point Tory lead
    Ashcroft phone - Tories level or leading by up to 6 in all polls bar one in 2015
    Ipsos phone - leading on all VI in three of the last four, and level on 8/10 and 9/10 in the latest
    Survation online - one point lead

    The Case for Labour

    Populus online - continual leads, though now at lowest VI level since 5/5/10
    Yougov online - regular leads
    Comres online - 2 point lead
    Opinium online - 2 point lead
    TNS - bears no resemblance to any others

    Viewed as pollsters, rather than volume of polls, it's splitting fairly evenly.
  • Options
    I'm afraid that none of us can go out and get the News ourselves we have to trust some news outlets in order to know what is going on in places like the Ukraine. By all means read newspapers of all stripes to help you make up your mind.
    Personally I trust the BBC more than most other news outlets. The fact that they get about equal flak from the Tories and Labour and are accused of bias from both strengthens that trust.
    I think that we are lucky to have the BBC, we could have Fox News (so called because it does).

    FPT - a very important question:

    Seriously, UKIP don't trust the BBC, so where do you get your trusted information from, Radio Moscow?

    I'm not speaking for UKIP, but speaking for myself, I don't 'trust' any media organisation. None. Not the BBC, not the DM, not the DT, not RT, not citizen journalist sites like NSNBC, not batshit crazy conspiracy sites like Infowars. To do so would be idiotic -probably always has been. What I do do, is recognise that like a diet, where sticking to one food group is likely to lead to malnutrition, sticking to one news source (or even a stable of sources that pushes the same accepted 'truths' - an ever-growing shopping list of views everyone must hold or be outside civilised society) is likely to lead to a set of lazy assumptions that prevent an accurate reading of events.
  • Options
    Labour have selected Tower Hamlets Cllr Amina Ali in Bradford West to face Galloway
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Labour have selected Tower Hamlets Cllr Amina Ali in Bradford West to face Galloway

    Well one out of two for my ideally racially and sexually profiled candidate to face George isn't bad.

    Hopefully he's been putting in groundwork in his constituency...
  • Options

    Danny565 said:

    I'm still thinking Tory most seats for now, but every week where there's no movement in the polls is essentially a small win for Labour at this point in the election cycle. The Tories really need to get some momentum (either momentum for themselves for the first time in 3 years, or a resumption in the slide from Labour to the small parties) soon.

    I do have some modest stakes on a Lab majority, though think a Lab minority more likely.

    But there are a lot of undecideds in the polls, and I cannot see them going heavily for Ed and Ed. I think we are still in the phoney war.

    BTW has Balls promised to remit some of existing student debt, or does his fee cut only apply to new students. Foxinsoxuk jr will be very annoyed if he has to pay but new students do not, and he is in a marginal...
    Surely the question for your son and heir is whether to blame Osborne for charging him more, or Balls for charging the new lot less.
  • Options

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Longer than that. These are Labour's PB polling average figures for the first month in the last nine quarters (to give enough months for a decent sample):

    Oct 2012: 42.4
    Jan 2013: 40.9
    Apr 2013: 38.4
    Jul 2013: 38.2
    Oct 2013: 37.2
    Jan 2014: 36.6
    Apr 2014: 36.5
    Jul 2014: 34.7
    Oct 2014: 33.2
    Jan 2015: 32.6

    In the same period, the Tories have gone from 32.6 to 31.5, the Lib Dems from 10.5 to 8.0, and UKIP from 6.8 to 14.5. I don't yet have the figures for the Greens for 2012 but their Jan 2013 score was 2.8 compared with last month's 7.3.
  • Options
    what were the profiles?
    Pulpstar said:

    Labour have selected Tower Hamlets Cllr Amina Ali in Bradford West to face Galloway

    Well one out of two for my ideally racially and sexually profiled candidate to face George isn't bad.

    Hopefully he's been putting in groundwork in his constituency...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    what were the profiles?

    Pulpstar said:

    Labour have selected Tower Hamlets Cllr Amina Ali in Bradford West to face Galloway

    Well one out of two for my ideally racially and sexually profiled candidate to face George isn't bad.

    Hopefully he's been putting in groundwork in his constituency...
    I'll be honest, I'd have liked to have seen a white lady up against George, but getting a councillor from down in London, even if it is Tower Hamlets, is a plus point for Galloway I reckon. He's the incumbent and a firebrand so doesn't need to worry so much he's actually a white Scottish man.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Longer than that. These are Labour's PB polling average figures for the first month in the last nine quarters (to give enough months for a decent sample):

    Oct 2012: 42.4
    Jan 2013: 40.9
    Apr 2013: 38.4
    Jul 2013: 38.2
    Oct 2013: 37.2
    Jan 2014: 36.6
    Apr 2014: 36.5
    Jul 2014: 34.7
    Oct 2014: 33.2
    Jan 2015: 32.6

    In the same period, the Tories have gone from 32.6 to 31.5, the Lib Dems from 10.5 to 8.0, and UKIP from 6.8 to 14.5. I don't yet have the figures for the Greens for 2012 but their Jan 2013 score was 2.8 compared with last month's 7.3.
    Lab -> Green swing.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    @Andrea_parma82 Glad to see local councillor Imran Hussain fighting for Bradford East, where I've backed Labour.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,462

    I'm afraid that none of us can go out and get the News ourselves we have to trust some news outlets in order to know what is going on in places like the Ukraine. By all means read newspapers of all stripes to help you make up your mind.
    Personally I trust the BBC more than most other news outlets. The fact that they get about equal flak from the Tories and Labour and are accused of bias from both strengthens that trust.
    I think that we are lucky to have the BBC, we could have Fox News (so called because it does).

    FPT - a very important question:

    Seriously, UKIP don't trust the BBC, so where do you get your trusted information from, Radio Moscow?

    I'm not speaking for UKIP, but speaking for myself, I don't 'trust' any media organisation. None. Not the BBC, not the DM, not the DT, not RT, not citizen journalist sites like NSNBC, not batshit crazy conspiracy sites like Infowars. To do so would be idiotic -probably always has been. What I do do, is recognise that like a diet, where sticking to one food group is likely to lead to malnutrition, sticking to one news source (or even a stable of sources that pushes the same accepted 'truths' - an ever-growing shopping list of views everyone must hold or be outside civilised society) is likely to lead to a set of lazy assumptions that prevent an accurate reading of events.
    The trouble is, you're only talking about one paradigm -right to left. So you think if you see what the right-wingers are saying and see what the left wingers are saying, you'll gain a fair impression. But what about East vs. West? What about individual vs. state? What about BRICS vs. USA+? All of our mainstream media conforms to a rigorously pro-state, pro-EU (with a few winges), pro-US line, quite at odds with other country's outlets, citizen news sites, and indeed often with sheer logic -read the constant rebukes of the stories in the below the line comments. That's why I feel the need to counterbalance it.

  • Options


    If your index finger is longer than your ring finger, there is a higher than average chance you will be grumpy, gay, poor and/or ugly, with a short penis.

    Tbf, poor and/or ugly, with a short penis might make you a wee bit grumpy.

  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited February 2015
    as it was an AWS for Labour it was always going to be a woman. NEC shortlisted 3 BAME. The interesting (or maybe not) thing is that CLP pickd up Ali who is from Somali origin. The other 2 runners were from Bradford.
    Pulpstar said:

    what were the profiles?

    Pulpstar said:

    Labour have selected Tower Hamlets Cllr Amina Ali in Bradford West to face Galloway

    Well one out of two for my ideally racially and sexually profiled candidate to face George isn't bad.

    Hopefully he's been putting in groundwork in his constituency...
    I'll be honest, I'd have liked to have seen a white lady up against George, but getting a councillor from down in London, even if it is Tower Hamlets, is a plus point for Galloway I reckon. He's the incumbent and a firebrand so doesn't need to worry so much he's actually a white Scottish man.
  • Options
    I think it is partly to do with this, from Charles Moore's piece this morning.

    In recent days, I have met quite a lot of Tory grandees who feel pretty happy about the election prospects. They are excited by their party’s money power. They think the return of economic growth is doing the trick.

    http://fw.to/0ayZL9
  • Options
    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Conservative chances basically come down to Ed continuing to demotivate Labour voters and a last minutre swing from some kippers. The Tories have been stuck in the low thirties from 2012 and have nothing really to offer.
    The TV/newspapers seem to be pushing 'hung parliament' as the expected election outcome. If that continues I think the hopes of Labour/Conservatives squeezing minor parties support declines to zero.
    don't forget the one advantage the tories still have - the budget - the last chance to appeal to middle britain to stick with the plan, maybe with a pre-election bribe or two thrown in for good measure paid out of Januarys tax surplus plus Cameron may well bring forward date of EU referendum to pull back some kippers, that along with the slow realisation like a drunk sobering up to the thought of Ed Miliband as PM, and I think the tories can pull ahead enough to make them largest party
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    I must confess I share Mike's bewilderment about this. There seems an optimism and confidence on the Tory side that is clearly unrelated to the polls. But that is nothing compared with the pessimism and resignation found amongst so many Labour supporters. It is the combined effect of both that is distorting the market.

    Will this respective optimism and pessimism be vindicated on the big day? Who knows but one thing I would be pretty confident of is that if there is no change in the polling by early March there will be a major wobble and trading opportunities.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755


    If your index finger is longer than your ring finger, there is a higher than average chance you will be grumpy, gay, poor and/or ugly, with a short penis.

    Tbf, poor and/or ugly, with a short penis might make you a wee bit grumpy.

    especially if you're a woman
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Danny565 said:

    I'm still thinking Tory most seats for now, but every week where there's no movement in the polls is essentially a small win for Labour at this point in the election cycle. The Tories really need to get some momentum (either momentum for themselves for the first time in 3 years, or a resumption in the slide from Labour to the small parties) soon.

    I do have some modest stakes on a Lab majority, though think a Lab minority more likely.

    But there are a lot of undecideds in the polls, and I cannot see them going heavily for Ed and Ed. I think we are still in the phoney war.

    BTW has Balls promised to remit some of existing student debt, or does his fee cut only apply to new students. Foxinsoxuk jr will be very annoyed if he has to pay but new students do not, and he is in a marginal...
    Surely the question for your son and heir is whether to blame Osborne for charging him more, or Balls for charging the new lot less.
    He is in Norwich South, voting Green so no fan of either.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Conservative backers have zero clue about electoral dynamics and vote-seat splits.
  • Options
    kjohnw said:

    Roger said:

    A lot of posters believe that nobody is thinking about the election yet and when they do like seeing Freddy for the first time in 'Nightmare on Elm Street' they'll see Ed and take fright.

    I slightly think like that myself.

    But those answering the pollsters or answering online WILL have thought about it and are clearly favouring Labour. So I'm not sure why the confidence that they'll change

    The Labour numbers have been falling for a year, but the Conservatives are not picking up those swing voters. They're going to UKIP/Green/SNP.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049
    Conservative chances basically come down to Ed continuing to demotivate Labour voters and a last minutre swing from some kippers. The Tories have been stuck in the low thirties from 2012 and have nothing really to offer.
    The TV/newspapers seem to be pushing 'hung parliament' as the expected election outcome. If that continues I think the hopes of Labour/Conservatives squeezing minor parties support declines to zero.
    don't forget the one advantage the tories still have - the budget - the last chance to appeal to middle britain to stick with the plan, maybe with a pre-election bribe or two thrown in for good measure paid out of Januarys tax surplus plus Cameron may well bring forward date of EU referendum to pull back some kippers, that along with the slow realisation like a drunk sobering up to the thought of Ed Miliband as PM, and I think the tories can pull ahead enough to make them largest party
    I think it would be a mistake for Osborne to use the Budget for some giveaways and don't think he'll do anything expensive on that front. What the Budget does do, however, is provide the government (both parties) with an excellent platform to take Labour's economic case apart, contrast it with its own record and establish or reinforce a narrative that the job isn't yet done (i.e. it's not safe to let Labour take over the controls) but the course is right (i.e. we know what we're doing).
  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited February 2015
    Mike - I don't think you are missing anything as such as things stand. Perhaps it's just that your very clear and strong dislike of the Tories prevents you from seeing the way in which many, including election voting modellers, pollsters, betting markets, etc., etc believe voting intentions will change over the next 75 days as the GE campaign really gets under way.
    Of course you may well yet be proved right.
  • Options
    I topped up my Labour Most Seats position earlier. It may not be a winning bet but it's fantastic value.
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Toxic Labour
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
    Times front page - ''Labour plans pension raid to fund lower student fees''

    Nothing changes
  • Options


    If your index finger is longer than your ring finger, there is a higher than average chance you will be grumpy, gay, poor and/or ugly, with a short penis.

    Tbf, poor and/or ugly, with a short penis might make you a wee bit grumpy.

    especially if you're a woman
    The things that make women grumpy are many and mysterious; long index fingers are the least of it.
  • Options
    The Beeb, particularly Radio 4, does a reasonable job of airing views from more than just left/right (I used that example as even now Tories/Labour represent an important minority in this country). The LibDems are very much in favour of individual liberty as are some Tories and they get covered in the BBC programmes. FOOC, The Moral Maze, Question Time, Any Questions/Answers, even Beyond Belief spring to mind. I think the BBC does a reasonable job of not being a monoculture. Howevr good luck being a one man balance to the BBC.
    I'm sorry but a lot of the 'below the line' comments on News sites would be in green ink if they were written.

    I'm afraid that none of us can go out and get the News ourselves we have to trust some news outlets in order to know what is going on in places like the Ukraine. By all means read newspapers of all stripes to help you make up your mind.
    Personally I trust the BBC more than most other news outlets. The fact that they get about equal flak from the Tories and Labour and are accused of bias from both strengthens that trust.
    I think that we are lucky to have the BBC, we could have Fox News (so called because it does).

    FPT - a very important question:

    Seriously, UKIP don't trust the BBC, so where do you get your trusted information from, Radio Moscow?

    I'm not speaking for UKIP, but speaking for myself, I don't 'trust' any media organisation. None. Not the BBC, not the DM, not the DT, not RT, not citizen journalist sites like NSNBC, not batshit crazy conspiracy sites like Infowars. To do so would be idiotic -probably always has been. What I do do, is recognise that like a diet, where sticking to one food group is likely to lead to malnutrition, sticking to one news source (or even a stable of sources that pushes the same accepted 'truths' - an ever-growing shopping list of views everyone must hold or be outside civilised society) is likely to lead to a set of lazy assumptions that prevent an accurate reading of events.
    The trouble is, you're only talking about one paradigm -right to left. So you think if you see what the right-wingers are saying and see what the left wingers are saying, you'll gain a fair impression. But what about East vs. West? What about individual vs. state? What about BRICS vs. USA+? All of our mainstream media conforms to a rigorously pro-state, pro-EU (with a few winges), pro-US line, quite at odds with other country's outlets, citizen news sites, and indeed often with sheer logic -read the constant rebukes of the stories in the below the line comments. That's why I feel the need to counterbalance it.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    Mike - I don't think you are missing anything as such as things stand. Perhaps it's just that your very clear and strong dislike of the Tories prevents you from seeing the way in which many, including election voting modellers, pollsters, betting markets, etc., etc believe voting intentions will change over the next 75 days as the GE campaign really gets under way.
    Of course you may well yet be proved right.

    I have no dislike of the Tories, I am one but I still think that Mike has a very good point. If you look at the Fisher model as an example it showed that about 6 months ago the Tories were in a very good place. They were not much behind and the model of most elections was that they would benefit from a significant swing in their direction as the election approached. Put briefly Labour could not win from there; they had too small a lead and the model confidently predicted a Tory overall majority.

    Fast forward 6 months and the swingback has not happened to anything like the anticipated extent and the model now predicts a tiny Labour lead, really a draw.

    The assumption of the markets is that the Tories are going to suddenly catch up with where they should have been. It seems to me that it is every bit as likely we will see more of the same: a small drift to the Tories but probably not enough to allow them to remain the largest party despite the catastrophe in Scotland which is surely the only thing that makes this open to question.
  • Options
    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    Explanation: the polls are a nowcast, the spread markets a forecast.
  • Options

    Mike - I don't think you are missing anything as such as things stand. Perhaps it's just that your very clear and strong dislike of the Tories prevents you from seeing the way in which many, including election voting modellers, pollsters, betting markets, etc., etc believe voting intentions will change over the next 75 days as the GE campaign really gets under way.
    Of course you may well yet be proved right.

    The operative word in your comment is 'believe'. I think that Mike S is seeing the facts of the polls and basing his headlines on them. Things may move over the next weeks, but then they should be reflected in the polls.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    antifrank said:

    I topped up my Labour Most Seats position earlier. It may not be a winning bet but it's fantastic value.

    I've backed both Labour and the Conservatives this morning, if I can sell £10 notes for £12 and buy £20s for £15...
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Mike - I don't think you are missing anything as such as things stand. Perhaps it's just that your very clear and strong dislike of the Tories prevents you from seeing the way in which many, including election voting modellers, pollsters, betting markets, etc., etc believe voting intentions will change over the next 75 days as the GE campaign really gets under way.
    Of course you may well yet be proved right.

    The operative word in your comment is 'believe'. I think that Mike S is seeing the facts of the polls and basing his headlines on them. Things may move over the next weeks, but then they should be reflected in the polls.
    I think the headlines are based upon a mixture of polling evidence and prejudice. The dislike of the Tories seems to underpin a high proportion of them. I sense something similar in the hostility to the SNP. The latter I share but the polling does point to a very poor Labour /LDperformance there possibly even resembling the Tory decline of earlier years. On Scotland I think the Union, as it stands, is a lost cause.
  • Options
    Just seen a slightly bonkers but nonetheless fascinating 'Swords & Sandals' epic - Jackie Chan's 'Dragon Blade' - apparently the most expensive film ever shot in China - the plot need not detain us long (warring tribes of the silk road (China) are disunited, repudiate peacekeeper Chan (the Communist Party) and fall prey to predatory outsiders (America - in the film its the Romans) only coming to their senses at the last minute and by uniting rescuing the Silk Road and Chan from poverty and strife, throwing out the oppressor...).

    Having grown up with the Hollywood ideology of the movies (work hard to get along, anyone can make it, the power of the individual, good triumphs over evil in the end) it was fascinating to see an action blockbuster written to a different set of rules - the importance of an ethnically diverse community to pull together - the danger of infighting, the perils of a foreign outsider and how you ignore the peacekeeper at your peril - fascinating stuff!
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    felix said:

    Roger said:

    Nobody wants to lay a Tory?

    Someone gave me a badge last week 'I've never kissed a Tory'

    I'm not sure the whole demonizing of people for expressing a political view is very healthy. Try substituting 'black, Jew, etc' and you might get it.
    I have considered your advice seriously, and after much thought have come to this:

    why should anyone want to lay a Tory ?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PeterC said:

    Explanation: the polls are a nowcast, the spread markets a forecast.

    So the forecast in Feb 2010 or indeed April 2010 was badly wrong !
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    Roger said:

    Nobody wants to lay a Tory?

    Someone gave me a badge last week 'I've never kissed a Tory'

    I'm not sure the whole demonizing of people for expressing a political view is very healthy. Try substituting 'black, Jew, etc' and you might get it.
    I have considered your advice seriously, and after much thought have come to this:

    why should anyone want to lay a Tory ?
    To consider anyone's thoughts seriously would require a brain cell....
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,462

    Just seen a slightly bonkers but nonetheless fascinating 'Swords & Sandals' epic - Jackie Chan's 'Dragon Blade' - apparently the most expensive film ever shot in China - the plot need not detain us long (warring tribes of the silk road (China) are disunited, repudiate peacekeeper Chan (the Communist Party) and fall prey to predatory outsiders (America - in the film its the Romans) only coming to their senses at the last minute and by uniting rescuing the Silk Road and Chan from poverty and strife, throwing out the oppressor...).

    Having grown up with the Hollywood ideology of the movies (work hard to get along, anyone can make it, the power of the individual, good triumphs over evil in the end) it was fascinating to see an action blockbuster written to a different set of rules - the importance of an ethnically diverse community to pull together - the danger of infighting, the perils of a foreign outsider and how you ignore the peacekeeper at your peril - fascinating stuff!

    I agree it is - all Chinese blockbusters tend to have a similar theme. You'd be surprised how much there is a Hollywood 'formula' beyond what you'd outlined though, especially in recent times. We don't see it because we're so used to it.

  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    I'd say the a possible solution to Mikes query lies in the amount of time people on PB say "the trend is your friend"
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Carlotta

    "Having grown up with the Hollywood ideology of the movies (work hard to get along, anyone can make it, the power of the individual, good triumphs over evil in the end) it was fascinating to see an action blockbuster written to a different set of rules - the importance of an ethnically diverse community to pull together - the danger of infighting, the perils of a foreign outsider and how you ignore the peacekeeper at your peril - fascinating stuff!"

    One of the great pleasures of foreign cinema. I try to watch at least as many non American films as American ones and they are usually much more involving. And sometimes from surprising countries. Iran for example has made some really interesting films
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    edited February 2015
    isam said:

    I'd say the a possible solution to Mikes query lies in the amount of time people on PB say "the trend is your friend"

    People that assume the current trend is the final result are usually bookmakers friends
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,462
    edited February 2015

    The Beeb, particularly Radio 4, does a reasonable job of airing views from more than just left/right (I used that example as even now Tories/Labour represent an important minority in this country). The LibDems are very much in favour of individual liberty as are some Tories and they get covered in the BBC programmes. FOOC, The Moral Maze, Question Time, Any Questions/Answers, even Beyond Belief spring to mind. I think the BBC does a reasonable job of not being a monoculture. Howevr good luck being a one man balance to the BBC.
    I'm sorry but a lot of the 'below the line' comments on News sites would be in green ink if they were written.

    It's not really about views, or even about telling untruths, it's about slant, and the repeated build up of coverage of one thing but not another. To continue the Ukraine example, our media outlets give full coverage of rebel aggression (with Russian support) when and wherever it occurs. But barely a shred of coverage to Ukrainian aggression against rebel areas, or the severely dodgy political make up of Ukraine's rather ramshackle new state. We therefore believe that Ukraine has a legitimate Government being undermined by a bullying expansionist neighbour. We believe Russian aided rebels shot down that plane. We believe Putin wants to take over the world.

    RT on the other hand fully exposes the shelling of the Donbass region and the terrible suffering there, the neo-Nazi elements in their Government, the evidence suggesting Ukrainian complicity in the plane downing etc., but of course doesn't cover anything that would indicate Russian involvement. Therefore the Russians believe their version of events.

    Both media outlets are propagandising by omission. And you cannot get a clear picture of what is happening by reading one and not the other. It's a very serious matter, because such propaganda is highly dangerous in terms of bringing us to conflict with a massive military power. Since we all know what the MSM take is on this, and we get how evil Putin is on the front page of every newspaper every day, it behoves us to read what the other side are saying.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    Roger said:

    Carlotta

    "Having grown up with the Hollywood ideology of the movies (work hard to get along, anyone can make it, the power of the individual, good triumphs over evil in the end) it was fascinating to see an action blockbuster written to a different set of rules - the importance of an ethnically diverse community to pull together - the danger of infighting, the perils of a foreign outsider and how you ignore the peacekeeper at your peril - fascinating stuff!"

    One of the great pleasures of foreign cinema. I try to watch at least as many non American films as American ones and they are usually much more involving. And sometimes from surprising countries. Iran for example has made some really interesting films

    Burqa Beauties is my favourite, though A First full of Fatwas runs it close
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    isam said:

    isam said:

    I'd say the a possible solution to Mikes query lies in the amount of time people on PB say "the trend is your friend"

    People that assume the current trend is the final result are usually bookmakers friends
    I'm guessing big accas on loads of football favourites are the bookies' best friends.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I'd say the a possible solution to Mikes query lies in the amount of time people on PB say "the trend is your friend"

    People that assume the current trend is the final result are usually bookmakers friends
    I'm guessing big accas on loads of football favourites are the bookies' best friends.
    Indeed!

    Although a lot of shrewd gamblers I know think there is value in Lucky 15s and Yankees

    Cash outers are quite good bookie buddies too
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/311224-ukip-candidate-in-every-scots-general-election-constituency/

    I don't know if this is wise, butI guess that UKIP must now show the flag everywhere.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015
    MikeK said:

    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/311224-ukip-candidate-in-every-scots-general-election-constituency/

    I don't know if this is wise, butI guess that UKIP must now show the flag everywhere.

    Could harm Conservative chances in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale; Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk; West Aberdeen & Kincardine and Dumfries & Galloway.

    Probably alot of lost deposits tbh, bit like the SNP running in Bexhill, UKIP running in Bellshill tbh.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I'd say the a possible solution to Mikes query lies in the amount of time people on PB say "the trend is your friend"

    People that assume the current trend is the final result are usually bookmakers friends
    I'm guessing big accas on loads of football favourites are the bookies' best friends.
    Indeed!

    Although a lot of shrewd gamblers I know think there is value in Lucky 15s and Yankees

    Cash outers are quite good bookie buddies too
    Can be value in lucky 15s and yankees I think - if you fancy a yard on the nags then there might be some hidden correlation value.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Alanbrooke

    "Burqa Beauties is my favourite, though A First full of Fatwas runs it close"

    I think you mean 'A fist Full of Fatwas'. or was it 'Fisting in Fatwas'

    Either way it made me laugh out very loud!!!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2015
    Classic stuff:

    Mr Coburn said...

    "We want to re-industrialise the central belt of Scotland, which has been neglected for too long by the SNP, who are too busy worrying about wars in the middle ages, or the Jacobite rebellion."
This discussion has been closed.